I can see Shireen’s sacrifice being consistent, but it definitely was pointless and botched, a classic case of D&D ruining everything just to get to the ending faster
Just letting stannis live out the rest of his days alone with nothing but shame and regret over his life decisions would have been a more fitting fate than his show character’s death. Imagine him sacrificing it all and living the rest of his life with nothing left.
This was the moment that made me rage quit the show, lol, as soon as I realized they were going to burn her I walked out the room and never looked back 😁 Not because I don't think she will burn in the books but that by the show doing it this way it made it clear that not only was I going to be spoiled to certain things but that they were going to be done in a rushed and ultimately meaningless way done for pure shock value
I hate to be that person but the guy who killed his only living brother is perfectly capable of killing his only child. Saying that burning Shireens death "ruins" Stannis arc I think lets the fanboys ignore the fact that this is what the Stannis we know always was. Stannis is a monster and would literally be like every "brutal" Targaryen king everyone is constantly whining about. He would be Aerys without the mental illness burning anyone and everyone who disagreed with him no compromises, its his way or you & everyone in your family will be burnt at the stake on his whim.
That’s just the result of the awful brains of DnD. Shireen and Melisandre were never with Stannis during their march to winterfell. The book Stannis could never betray the readers by pointless plot. Book stannis is only using the red woman to get more men, he never believes nor have any faith to the red god. That’s why book fandom got mad with the show changes since season 5
I totally agree with you. I read the books, and I just can't forget about the Renly murder with blood magic. Stannis is a hypocrite, he says he has honor, but murders his brother with the help of a witch because he knew he'd lose the battle.
@@ciandryl Yawn the stupidity of baratheon stans is beyond tiring, your boy is a monster just deal with it. I know exactly where Melisandre is in the books but until GRRM releases Winds you have no argument. Stannis is already a kinslayer in the books, Shireen isnt the leap you want to pretend it is
Book Stannis never burnt people just for disagreeing though. He burned only criminals. He is definitely not clear good guy but he is not monster either.
Not sure how it was in the show, but Stannis deeply regrets the un-honorable way Renly died. The spell that killed Renly was done by Melisandre. Stannis has nightmares over it. He did not know that "he" was going to used as the slayer of his brother in shadow form. It was the beginning of him pulling away from Mel. Also, Stannis whole purpose of fighting Renly was for the law. By law he inherited the throne, then Shireen. Unlike Renly, Stannis did not want the throne, he was going after it for duty. When he leave for Winterfell, he make arrangement to make sure Shireen with be protected and ascend the throne if he dies. Show Stannis is not book Stannis.
Stannis in the show should have became a White Walker and led the army of the dead to victory this taking his rightful place as King. As stupid as that seems the show would have been improved.
The problem with the show is they get Stannis wrong from the beginning. He was never a zealot of the Lord Of Light. Mellisandra was a tool to him, He had no faith in any gods after his parents died. Selene was the true believer. Over the course of the books, he becomes more disillusion with using Mellisandra and the Lord of Light as a tool in his decisions. Especially after the death of Renly by the shadow baby. He rightfully believes he was tricked in slaying his kin in a dishonorable method. He states numerous times it is his duty to seat Shireen as the next ruler because it is law of the land. He will not kin slay her for anything. Shireen is going to be sacrificed in the books, but not by Stannis. That will be done by anyone or a combination of Mellisandra, Selene, or Val who are all at The Wall with her, while Stannis is sieging Winterfell. Stannis is set to sacrifice someone else.... That my problem with the show. They had plenty of material for Stannis and logical places to go with him, but they never wrote him true from day one. And even with their version of him, they fumbled his ending with the threads they set up themselves. Him being slayed by Briennie make no sense thematically for either character.
100%. I would also add that, probably, Martin did want to make Stannis burn Shireen when the characters were first introduced into the story, but as time went on he clearly changed his mind about Stannis as a character, and he started to develop him more.
Looking at what is written so far, I there is no way Stannis burns his daughter…but It’s possible if George spends the his Arc in the next book to that direction.
The real Stannis ordered his people to crown his daughter. I don't see a way to move his character that far away in the book that he would do this. Sacrificing Shireen isn't just giving up a daughter, it's sacrifice of his belief he should be king in favour of a role as AA. Given the sacrifice of his belief in being king he should have turned his attention beyond the Wall. Mel wants him to be AA, he's just taking advantage because he thinks it will help him win the war of the kings. Logistically it's also unlikely in the books. However in the books Stannis has two other options he didn't have in the show. Asha and Arya. Asha as an heir to her father and uncle is kingsblood, Arya as an heir to Robb is kingsblood, and he has both in book. The show presents the sacrifice as failing. Now, if Stannis were to burn Jayne believing she is Arya, the failure of the sacrifice makes more sense. This option was removed from the show when it removed Jayne and shifted her plot to Sansa. The show may have needed to present a key plot detail but been unable to do it properly.
I think it made sense for the plot of the show until they started really screwing up the show. I'm assuming they knew needed to get stannis out of the show one way or another and this made sense to be his first major screw up. We needed more of some kind of pay off good or bad. I think the sacrifice of Shereen and John snows revival should have been linked somehow.
Don't really know why everyone loves him. Still can't get over the fact that he's a kinslayer. That he murdered Renly and Penrose with blood magic. He's going to die in the books too obviously 🤷🏻♀️
Really? Renly was going to kill him in Battle over a claim he had no right to. Stannis is the one character that does not want power for its own sake but because it is his duty. It is his duty to rule and defend the realm for the white walkers. He values the wisdom of lowborn Davos. Yet at the same time he’s willing to use dark magic to further his side. That’s why he’s interesting! He does have principles, and is steadfast but he sees it as his duty to do what he needs to save the realm.
@ yes, to kill him in battle. In Westeros, killing a man in battle is fair, but killing a man with blood magic is "murder", Kinslayer in addition. Stannis wants power for the same reason the other 4 kings wanted power. And he was the most hypocrite about it. Because he talks about honor this and that, but still used black magic to get power. And as of white walkers, when he murdered Renly he did not know they were out there, so this argument is not very accurate
@@Ceciak27 No, killing with blood magic is not in any way worse than doing it on the battlefield. Martin himself says so and even compares killing Renly with killing Hitler. Source: So Spoke Martin: "A short discussion on Stannis' slaying of Renly. Martin just sat and listened. I made the point that killing someone on the battlefield is different from assasinating someone in their sleep, and Martin asked "Is it really? Are you saying that you would not have participating in the attempted bombing of Hitler? Instead, you'd prefer to kill him in battle where he'd have a fair chance in fighting?"
@ yes, that's what Martin thinks, and Martin does not live in Westeros does he ? AND YET ... when you read the books, everybody agrees on the fact that killing someone in battle is fair, and "murdering" someone is not, especially for someone who goes around yelling that he's honorable and just. The Renly/ Hitler thing is stupid though, even from the lips of GRRM, because as far as I remember, it's Stannis who had more in common than Hitler, and people loved Renly more than Stannis, he's a cold blooded fanatic. That's why no one rallied with Stannis in the first place
@ had he fire with catapults and Renly died ? Yeah you could make the comparison with the "attempted bombing" on the H. But I don't think Churchil hired a sorcerer to kill him... 🤷🏻♀️
The book won't do it like this.
If I ever make it through all of these Stannis-centric videos, that will be my final point.
EXACTLY‼️
I can see Shireen’s sacrifice being consistent, but it definitely was pointless and botched, a classic case of D&D ruining everything just to get to the ending faster
Shireen and Melisandre were not marching with Stannis to winterfell. They resided at Castle black with jon snow
Just letting stannis live out the rest of his days alone with nothing but shame and regret over his life decisions would have been a more fitting fate than his show character’s death. Imagine him sacrificing it all and living the rest of his life with nothing left.
Stannis has nothing to be ashamed about, he should have been king from the start.
I don't believe D and D came even close to getting it right. I do not consider the show cannon.
D&Ds heads will roll for plotting against the one true king!
❤️🔥🦌👑
Too bad hes already a kinslayer so the whining from the baratheon fanboys is irrelvant anyway, all the baratheons were scum just accept it
House Karstark remembers. We remembers!
This was the moment that made me rage quit the show, lol, as soon as I realized they were going to burn her I walked out the room and never looked back 😁
Not because I don't think she will burn in the books but that by the show doing it this way it made it clear that not only was I going to be spoiled to certain things but that they were going to be done in a rushed and ultimately meaningless way done for pure shock value
Book Stannis might kill Show Stannis with words only
I hate to be that person but the guy who killed his only living brother is perfectly capable of killing his only child. Saying that burning Shireens death "ruins" Stannis arc I think lets the fanboys ignore the fact that this is what the Stannis we know always was. Stannis is a monster and would literally be like every "brutal" Targaryen king everyone is constantly whining about. He would be Aerys without the mental illness burning anyone and everyone who disagreed with him no compromises, its his way or you & everyone in your family will be burnt at the stake on his whim.
That’s just the result of the awful brains of DnD. Shireen and Melisandre were never with Stannis during their march to winterfell. The book Stannis could never betray the readers by pointless plot. Book stannis is only using the red woman to get more men, he never believes nor have any faith to the red god. That’s why book fandom got mad with the show changes since season 5
I totally agree with you. I read the books, and I just can't forget about the Renly murder with blood magic. Stannis is a hypocrite, he says he has honor, but murders his brother with the help of a witch because he knew he'd lose the battle.
@@ciandryl Yawn the stupidity of baratheon stans is beyond tiring, your boy is a monster just deal with it. I know exactly where Melisandre is in the books but until GRRM releases Winds you have no argument. Stannis is already a kinslayer in the books, Shireen isnt the leap you want to pretend it is
Book Stannis never burnt people just for disagreeing though. He burned only criminals. He is definitely not clear good guy but he is not monster either.
Not sure how it was in the show, but Stannis deeply regrets the un-honorable way Renly died. The spell that killed Renly was done by Melisandre. Stannis has nightmares over it. He did not know that "he" was going to used as the slayer of his brother in shadow form. It was the beginning of him pulling away from Mel.
Also, Stannis whole purpose of fighting Renly was for the law. By law he inherited the throne, then Shireen. Unlike Renly, Stannis did not want the throne, he was going after it for duty. When he leave for Winterfell, he make arrangement to make sure Shireen with be protected and ascend the throne if he dies. Show Stannis is not book Stannis.
Stannis in the show should have became a White Walker and led the army of the dead to victory this taking his rightful place as King.
As stupid as that seems the show would have been improved.
The problem with the show is they get Stannis wrong from the beginning. He was never a zealot of the Lord Of Light. Mellisandra was a tool to him, He had no faith in any gods after his parents died. Selene was the true believer. Over the course of the books, he becomes more disillusion with using Mellisandra and the Lord of Light as a tool in his decisions. Especially after the death of Renly by the shadow baby. He rightfully believes he was tricked in slaying his kin in a dishonorable method. He states numerous times it is his duty to seat Shireen as the next ruler because it is law of the land. He will not kin slay her for anything.
Shireen is going to be sacrificed in the books, but not by Stannis. That will be done by anyone or a combination of Mellisandra, Selene, or Val who are all at The Wall with her, while Stannis is sieging Winterfell. Stannis is set to sacrifice someone else....
That my problem with the show. They had plenty of material for Stannis and logical places to go with him, but they never wrote him true from day one. And even with their version of him, they fumbled his ending with the threads they set up themselves. Him being slayed by Briennie make no sense thematically for either character.
100%. I would also add that, probably, Martin did want to make Stannis burn Shireen when the characters were first introduced into the story, but as time went on he clearly changed his mind about Stannis as a character, and he started to develop him more.
Looking at what is written so far, I there is no way Stannis burns his daughter…but
It’s possible if George spends the his Arc in the next book to that direction.
I don’t think Stannis will burn Shireen. He loves her. Val on the other hand… she’s light that sweet baby up herself.
The real Stannis ordered his people to crown his daughter. I don't see a way to move his character that far away in the book that he would do this. Sacrificing Shireen isn't just giving up a daughter, it's sacrifice of his belief he should be king in favour of a role as AA. Given the sacrifice of his belief in being king he should have turned his attention beyond the Wall. Mel wants him to be AA, he's just taking advantage because he thinks it will help him win the war of the kings. Logistically it's also unlikely in the books.
However in the books Stannis has two other options he didn't have in the show. Asha and Arya. Asha as an heir to her father and uncle is kingsblood, Arya as an heir to Robb is kingsblood, and he has both in book.
The show presents the sacrifice as failing. Now, if Stannis were to burn Jayne believing she is Arya, the failure of the sacrifice makes more sense. This option was removed from the show when it removed Jayne and shifted her plot to Sansa. The show may have needed to present a key plot detail but been unable to do it properly.
I think it made sense for the plot of the show until they started really screwing up the show. I'm assuming they knew needed to get stannis out of the show one way or another and this made sense to be his first major screw up. We needed more of some kind of pay off good or bad. I think the sacrifice of Shereen and John snows revival should have been linked somehow.
Don't really know why everyone loves him. Still can't get over the fact that he's a kinslayer. That he murdered Renly and Penrose with blood magic.
He's going to die in the books too obviously 🤷🏻♀️
Really? Renly was going to kill him in Battle over a claim he had no right to. Stannis is the one character that does not want power for its own sake but because it is his duty. It is his duty to rule and defend the realm for the white walkers. He values the wisdom of lowborn Davos. Yet at the same time he’s willing to use dark magic to further his side. That’s why he’s interesting! He does have principles, and is steadfast but he sees it as his duty to do what he needs to save the realm.
@ yes, to kill him in battle. In Westeros, killing a man in battle is fair, but killing a man with blood magic is "murder", Kinslayer in addition.
Stannis wants power for the same reason the other 4 kings wanted power.
And he was the most hypocrite about it. Because he talks about honor this and that, but still used black magic to get power.
And as of white walkers, when he murdered Renly he did not know they were out there, so this argument is not very accurate
@@Ceciak27 No, killing with blood magic is not in any way worse than doing it on the battlefield. Martin himself says so and even compares killing Renly with killing Hitler. Source: So Spoke Martin:
"A short discussion on Stannis' slaying of Renly. Martin just sat and listened. I made the point that killing someone on the battlefield is different from assasinating someone in their sleep, and Martin asked "Is it really? Are you saying that you would not have participating in the attempted bombing of Hitler? Instead, you'd prefer to kill him in battle where he'd have a fair chance in fighting?"
@ yes, that's what Martin thinks, and Martin does not live in Westeros does he ? AND YET ... when you read the books, everybody agrees on the fact that killing someone in battle is fair, and "murdering" someone is not, especially for someone who goes around yelling that he's honorable and just.
The Renly/ Hitler thing is stupid though, even from the lips of GRRM, because as far as I remember, it's Stannis who had more in common than Hitler, and people loved Renly more than Stannis,
he's a cold blooded fanatic.
That's why no one rallied with Stannis in the first place
@ had he fire with catapults and Renly died ? Yeah you could make the comparison with the "attempted bombing" on the H. But I don't think Churchil hired a sorcerer to kill him... 🤷🏻♀️
She did bring closure and justice for her love, Lord, and King, Renly, first of his name, the rightful king.
If you think all stories and happily or well, you haven’t been paying attention.
It did mark Stannis making his final mistake and loss of the game.