Is MinisForum Taking Over The ITX Game? ft. MinisForum AR900i
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- Опубликовано: 11 янв 2024
- Wendell checks out the Minisforum AR900i, and it sure seems like Minisforum has some of the best ITX mobos in the business, doesn't it?
Check it out here: s.minisforum.com/Level1techs-...
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I have to agree with you Wendell. I just received the BD770i to make a build for my son so he could move his pc from room to room for family game night. I have to say, pound per pound that the 770I is an amazing piece of work for what it is. I got an ITX case, two sticks of SODIMM ddr5 4800 (corsair), threw his RTX 3060 and M2 drive into it and BAM!!! It's turning out to be a VERY capable and quiet gaming rig. While gaming the CPU temps at topping out at 60-65 Celsius. When I throw Cinebench at it, it tops out at 89 touching the 90 degree mark very rarely. I honestly couldn't be happier with it.
Which case are you using?
I managed to get a deal on the K49 from SGPC using a SickleFlow 120 from Corsair. The case comes with an acrylic side panel that allows a fair amount of air to be sucked in. Having both metal sides on at the same time was not the best configuration to allow airflow. I tried multiple configurations and fans before settling on this combo (acrylic on the CPU side and not the GPU side). While the Lian Li ST120's cooled a little bit better, the SickleFlow's offered nearly the same amount of cooling for a fraction of the sound. I don't have any hard numbers on sounds levels except that under a full load it doesn't sound like a jet fighter taking off with the SlickleFlow's as opposed to the ST120's sounding like...a jetfighter taking off. I'm sure that there are better cases out there for airflow, but the K49 was the right price at the right time. @@rumplin
"BAM!!!" are you a cartoonist or something? 🤣
I was just looking at the BD 790i on their page, now orderable with the 16 core cpu
Ok... it's great... but you need to plan around temps. it's a 104w max draw that feels like it's putting out almost 200w heat like a 13700k. I had to learn how to tweak smu settings in bios to force a 80w tdp cap on it's turbo mode to get her under control ( I found reaching 92c peaks and 80c typical loads unacceptable) The bios is gimped even compared to the intel variant.
Biggest notes, If your temps spike hard like mine did you'll want to rethermal paste the cpu (pretty much any mx- silver paste- even phase change pad) Their QC isn't quite there yet so some may have bad coverage on the dies, you'll want "Fan Control" so they aren't stuck @100% 24/7, get comfortable learning the bios as you reenter it 50+ times tweaking smu till it's just right, consider high airflow cases, DO NOT TOP EXHAUST... if you get enough intake the heatsink directs it's own exhaust and top exhaust (above the drives) will end up gimping your cooling (rear and front exhaust are fine). Once you tame the beast the 7945hx comes surprisingly close to a stock 7950x and brushes aside stock 13700k's in most cases. (makes sense as it's a technically a reduced power 7950x)
Been using MinisForum and other SBC type of systems such as the NUC as lab machines for virtualization, NAS, routers and firewall , and I have to say, for such fresh technology and under 30W, they work amazingly well. Extremely more quieter than a Xeon/Epyc server, sure won’t offer same amount of cores, memory, slots or storage but for a non-business users, you can’t go wrong with those devices.
Great video Wendell - I really like the look of that AMD board. The extra I/O from Team Blue is attractive, but I personally wouldn't want the extra heat from them over AMD.
the bd790i is available for order as of 6:00am est.
i do love the reveiw, keep it up
I'm really hoping they do something with both AM5 for the APUs and something with Meteor Lake. The Ultra 9 185H has the potential to put out good performance, similar to a 13900H, but with a very competitive iGPU. AM5 of course is getting APUs with the 8000 series which I'm very excited for.
I have both boards and they both run like BEASTS!!! Both in Fractal Terra builds w/the AMD rocking an OG 7900 XTX Starfield edition, and the Intel rocking a 4090FE, didn't realize that I could get so much POWAH in such a small package!
can you please check for me if both of them support biffurcation... want to try build a NAS in one of them
@@meccu19 probably not as it's a consumer board
I have a 3080TI, should I go with the new 790i model (AMD 16 core version) or stick with Intel? Mostly just a gaming PC, but I like winning benchmark races ;)
@@Black_Cat_997 At the end of the day, it's still a laptop CPU. If you want to win benchmark races, get a desktop class CPU.
@@justinreynolds6318 yep, im totally fine with my laptop 13900h ES hitting 5.4 all core while only pulling 55-95w. board_ cpu combo was only 220 :D
I just bought two Minisforum PCs. A 480XT and a Um690s. Both are excellent for the money and my needs.
I would be interested to see if you can slap a larger cooler on this board. But I'm guessing the mounting holes are proprietary so probably not possible...
That’s sweet! I love the undercurrents of this design ethos twinkling on the horizon as a new paradigm in miniature computing.
Single fan, with wall to wall heatsink. Whats not to love?
Very funny timing, I just swapped out a 2500K for a used H670 ITX board and a 12500. €230 for the pair with gen 5 x16, 2 gen 4x4, 2.5g onboard, I'm super excited to get it running
Buddy of mine is going with the BD790 for a Fractal Terra build. These are a good all in one build option. Almost back to the barebones boxes we had a long time ago.
Did you friend do it? What fan did he use? It would be awesome if you could ask.
Great timing for a MinisForum video. I was just browsing their website. I have a family of 4 and we have a desktop with an RTX4090 and 13900k and a laptop with an RTX 3060. But I was hoping to buy/build 2 more so the whole family can game together. My office currently is used for work from home and my large desktop gaming setup. This doesn't leave much room to try to squeeze two more computers, desks and chairs into as well as a spot to place the laptop. So I was thinking of buying/building two PCs that could be attached to the back of their monitors and use them all wireless so that the only cables are the power cables and a short HDMI/DP cable that stays behind the monitor. I'm hoping to use the recently announced 7800G or an Intel Meteor Lake IGPU using ARC Graphics. Not only will this help me keep the clutter down but also the heat. Fingers crossed MinisForum has this on their roadmap.
I am loving these minisforum pc's and I will probably use one when I upgrade my pc next.
Its a VERY compelling package, been looking into using one of these.
NO complaints here, great job Sir!
Could be interesting to have perhaps 2x 40mm fans on the side of the headsink blowing air across and only if the cpu does get warm...
Would probably fit in very tiny cases
The 3d mark CPU benchmark does a good job showing the gaming speeds , since non modern benchmark are more about power dumping
And now i am really interested in the BD790i version. That one with the Ryzen 9 7945hx in it. That seems to be an epic package with the 32 threads. it is expensive, though not ys expensive as a itx AM5 motherboard with a 7700X or a 7950x
@unholydonutsESPECIALLY if you want mini-ITX. The closest board to this is either the ASRock B650E PG-ITX Wifi or the Asus ROG Strix B650E-I Gaming Wifi, which are $289 and $310+ respectively. A regular B650 board doesn't have PCI-E 5.0, which isn't a huge deal really, so you could get one of those for $200-ish but you're still paying more for less if you want ITX
Thanks Windell, I just retired an old Ryzen 2700X build that carried me over 4 years and several thousand hours of gaming and running 24/7. It's tired. The fans are increasing loud, the NVMe has a lot of wear, Windows is bloated to the max... But, it has a nice Radeon 6700XT in it and a 600W PSU, plus a really nice case. I think this as a drop in, with some of those P12 fans would be a great and ultra powerful daily driver for my fiancee.
if something like this had HBM ram onboard for the APU we would be golden.
These newer laptop processors are amazing when given the right cooling and enabling performance mode. They are perfect for homelabs.
Got a few mini pc's from minisforum and they're great so far, these board definitely got my attention, considering them to replace a i5-4690K system.
The value of this thing for building a Mini-ITX system is pretty dang dope. Sure the CPU being soldered is a bit of a bummer but tbh I would end up changing the CPU way later in the years when the MOBO platform would change anyways.
Definitely a very compelling board, especially at the price of a 14900K (just the CPU). Only thing I can't tell from their site is what the rear USB C is. IO plate says USB4, but specs say USB3.2 + display. If that was actually USB4 (or even better - Thunderbolt 4), that would make this the perfect board!
Minis Fotum MS-01
Intel Core i9-13900H (14+20 cores)
Dual 10GB SPF+ NIC, Dual 2.5GB RJ47 NIC
Dual USB 4 (Full40GB support , 20GB Thunderwire support), 2x USB3.2 Gen2, 2x USB3.2 Gen 1
etc
I think it would be cool to throw 3 of these in a few 1u cases and make a lowish power proxmox cluster
I could fit 3 of them in the case my system is in, coolers, graphics card and all! I may even have a little room left!
Look at MinisForum MS-01
@@IndenturedRUclipsSlave
Oh man these are sick!! 10g networking and pcie slot!
doing exactly that with four BD770is.
I was seriously considering this board but no thunderbolt put me off a little. However if a 3D V cache model is on the horizon then I could be tempted, price depending
I'd like you to look at these from a high-end small workstation perspective: add in 10 Gb ethernet and a workstation GPU in a small ITX chassis.
The 770i would be a balls to the walls router build with fairly low power usage :) It might even do 10 Gbit/s with Vyos or OPNSense.
Just checked Minisforums site, and there's a BD790i available for pre-order now. Seems to be basically identical to the 770i, except it uses a Ryzen 9 7945HX 16-core chip instead.
I'm seriously tempted to snag one. Dunno what I'm gonna do with it yet, maybe just to mess around with.
Not even 2 days ago I checked the site and it wasn't up. You mentioning it I can't believe it finally arrived. Thanks for posting this.
@@Neopulse00 funny im debating on the lower tier intel one if its around 400 like the ryzen 5
What totally gets forgotten is the DIY NAS/Homeserver market. iTX-Boards with Laptop APUs are perfect for those builds. The market with iTX Boards with onboard CPU totally sucks, with only ultra slow Celeron stuff for years now. I would be really happy to find a board with for example a i5-1340p and 4-6 SATA connectors and some m2. Slots.
holy cow wendall........... close out all those dang tabs on the portrait monitors!!!!!
If one of these machines could use ECC, it would be so so so good.
I'm really tempted to build one with bd770i. I know I can go cheaper if I take bundle deals with cheap b650 boards, but those cheap boards won't have Gen5 x16.
After seeing the comments on their site around m.2 to sata and HBA cards not being recognized, it knocks this out as a NAS/Plex build. If they do another Intel MoDT motherboard, I'd love to see making the heatsink on the top for m.2 a passive 1 drive heatsink (it sits under CPU fan anyway), replace the top edge m.2 with a pair of mini-sas that could break out to 8 sata (or ensure m.2 to mini-sas/sata adapters work properly), and ECC support (i9-13950HX,i5-13600HX, or i7-13850HX + WM790 chipset) ... Honestly, hoping they expand their motherboard offerings, even if it scales up to micro-ATX for connection options
A lot of creators use igpu on Intel specifically for QuickSync, gamers use it on single pc stream setups instead of a second pc.
I'm pondering a build using either this or the AMD minisforum board. I may way till they get some USB C ports and Thunderbolt4 or USB4 support, though.
The AR900i has 2 USB-C that support USB4 while the AMD doesn't have USB4 on its USB-C port.
@@KevinPassino is that confirmed? The specs don't say and minisforim was very vague when I asked them.
I might pick up the 3d amd version when it comes out
Still waiting to receive my BD790i, I can't wait! In this video, you mentioned that the BIOS is very basic - I'd be interested in seeing a video going over current BIOS options and features between the Intel and AMD systems. PXE is something I use in my home environment (Clonezilla backups), and I'm a bit worried it doesn't exist on these platforms.
@level1techs The BD790i came out a few days ago.
I was just looking at one of these Mini pcs for the gf to use in some college classes and some light eso
I would love to see these but with an external power brick, a SFF power supply can be so loud with coil whine and messy with cables. Why not just a mini pc? Internal hard drives.
Hi! I am trying to install a Noctua Slim fan on the dissipator, but I don’t understand which screws I should use. Which ones have you used?
The only thing the AR900i lacks that I'd want is a cluster of built in SATA ports. If it had those, it could do everything my new full ATX 14900k build is doing (well, everything I need it to do, I splurged for 192GB ram) at probably 80% the speed for 1/4 to 1/3 the wattage. And it would have been about the same cost.
A full build with 10 16-20TB drives hanging off a pair of M key HBAs and one of the remaining NVME slots filled with an Optane drive acting as cache would be an interesting setup.
something like this would be an excellent replacement for my 5930K rig, guess it's something to look into.
So when will I be able to get one of these small size platforms with ECC RAM?
I was really debating between the 770i and the AR900i but went with the 770i in the end mostly due to cost. Might upgrade it to the 3D cache version down the road. For just general productivity it's been great and I don't really notice a difference vs my 7700X desktop. Haven't gotten a GPU for the 770i yet, waiting to see if AMD will discount the 7900XTX when the 4080 Super comes out.
How about a little benchmark video comparing both boards, Wendell?
Would appreciate some gaming benchmarks next time, but otherwise great video
Also, rather than a 13900hx, I'd love one of these with the little power sipping Core 7 150U. The 15w power envelope could be very useful for many projects. Two big cores for heavy lifting, and 8 E cores for lighter stuff sounds like a better implementation of the hybrid core design than the many of each approach.
Ok. I have one question for many weeks: why don’t you full screen browser at your tvs?
Can you use all the pcie lanes, like a graphics card and the 4 nvme?
Definitely waiting for TB4 ports and Bifurcation support. Possibly looking at this to build a Hyper-V lab to move away from VMware because they got broadcom-ed.
What is displayed on the monitors in the background?
The new BD790i with the 7945HX may run the floor with the Intel system, but it does have 2 less m.2 slots.
I agree with the growing appeal of the form factor. If someone ever develops an mini PC's with a "clip on" plug and play External GPU that gives a seamless appearance, they may really give full towers a run for their money in the gaming market. Regular external GPUs, as they exist now, kind of defeats the purpose
Can you do a comparison betwen this mobile zen 4 and "real" desktop ones ? Would be really interesting how nuch you miss out going with this boards
Would be interested with ECC.
so my friend and i both got minisforum pcs, and both of ours died within 4 months. We were both able to get them replaced with warranty but it took a while to get the replacements and it was a frustrating process. Has anyone else seen issues with their minisforum pcs?
i just bought one and i am having problems with drivers for the lan and other drivers where do we download drivers for it please help.?
windows does not auto detect the drivers and install them ...
The biggest cost is proprietary pieces that would fit this into a laptop, or a handheld, or a mini pc. So what if we just made it from shelf parts? It'll be bigger. And cheaper. I like it.
please review the minisforum MS-01
Hopefully they release a NAS board as well
Yeah my Forum thread is on RUclips 😂🎉 nice showcase, I simply love my bd770i... Best bang for the buck since ages! (And I mean a real BANG - This thing runs like hell).
Cya in forums Wendell 😊
Thanks for being an earlier adopter & sharing your experience on the forum sir! 🙌 I'm sold & weighing up the pros & cons of the BD770i vs BD790i. I'll be encoding quite a bit so i'm leaning slightly more towards the BD790i
would love this for a home server! so much power in a small package
It will be ridiculously beyond capable for a home server.
Imagine this but with socketed Strix Halo+3D V-Cache + CAMM2
Get the Alphacool 120mm 4000rpm pwm fan if you get temp problem😂👍
How does this compare with the erying offerings??
In the future, PCs are just going to be one giant GPU that you install a CPU into.
I like the effort to shoehorn big parts into a small package, but I don't like the idea of a system that's configured to fit only specific parts, as it may not be the most upgradable platform. Minisforum PCs are tempting for their convenience. The price premium makes them a bit of a no-go, though.
Can you disable the e-cores on these?
> albiet meant for laptops
yeah but it wont pull 400 watts though.... right?
MS-01?Anytime soon of a review ?
Wow, they added 4x4x4x4 bifurcation without a switch? I thought Intel hard locked it into 8x4x4.
Surely they won't add ECC support since it lacks a WM690...
I wonder what I'd need to have e.g. 4 or 8 NVMes or U.3 drives in such a device with almost full speed. I don't really need a GPU, I'd turn it into a server (my server is roughly 10 years old, some components are older, and while the i5-3450 or so gets the job done, I am sure there are better solutions).
I'm kinda hoping the Ampere ARM stuff comes down in price, but no luck yet...
i wish they had better bios and some overclocking support, to reach at least 90% of power of it's desktop counterpart
I only wish the CPUs in these were upgradeable. Having a Zen 4 part when Zen 6 or 7 CPUs are out will be rough when AM5 motherboards will easily accommodate those new CPUs.
Will this bifurcate at 8x/8x also? How does this compare to a Dragon Canyon NUC with a 12900 and DDR4?
While really nice looking, my only concern is at this price it's getting very close to the pricing of an ITX motherboard plus a 7800X3D, and more than going with an AM4 motherboard and a 5800X3D, I think this would be more compelling at $499.
what meaningful difference does 20 bucks make at this price point? $520 is a pretty good price considering the cheapest AM5 ITX board I've come across was $200 and the 7800X3D is like $400 right now.
@@bhume7535 it's not $520 though, it's $559 according to minisforum’s site, and that's with a $130 savings, it's regular price is listed at $689
older stuff is always cheaper
I have JUST the perfect GPU for that build, look into the RTX A4000, it would be perfection with that build and low enough power to find a unique low power power supply to optimize space
4x nvme and a 10gbe in the pci slot would make a wicked nas/vm build
I use an M.2 to 10GbE adapter and hopefully when they release Bifurcation support for this, then you could add another 4 x m.2 for a total of 7 with the 10GbE nic.
I'm loving the fact that full size desktop RAM and GPU can be used. Opportunity for a portable full desktop powered work PC with better thermals/gpu overhead/memory speeds and capacity. Great laptop alternative, Throw it in your bag with a hdmi cable, compact foldable keyboard and any tv and you're ready to go
Psst…it uses sodimm ram, the slots aren’t in the flat configuration you may be used to seeing, but it’s sodimm…
@@druxpack8531 ahhhhhh..oh well
I like the AR 900i or the BD770i, but I need to run a 8 drive HBA which will take up the slot. I am trying to purchase the CWWK AMD 7840HS 8/9 bay NAS board. However if they don't restock by 20 Apr 24, I will get the AR 900i. Thanks for letting me vent......
Absolutely
cheers to someone who's still rocking a 2500k, probably the best value cpu I've ever had
Pretty cool a legit company is doing what erying has been doing
Tip, run the 120mm fun in pull rather than push, because the VRMs are under the heat sink and you will push hot air onto them in push mode.
I found the whole system runs a lot cooler in pull mode.
VRMs have higher temp limits than CPU. Air at 70-80 celsius is still perfectly fine for a VRM that is usually rated for 120. If your system runs cooler in pull mode it's probably because of the heatsink design that has better airflow in that configuration
@@marcogenovesi8570 its a DB790i, running 100% 24/7, from a longevity stand point.
Same CPU in the studiobook 16
Damn! I wanna throw a Mini-SAS cardand a m.2 10gig nic. Hook it up to my JBOD and make this my main Proxmox server.
Not sure if I missed it, does anyone know if the 2.5Gbe network Intel or Realtek? Also, the site says they support 2x32gb, but is it safe to assume 2x48gb would work too?
Yes I have dual 48GB SODIMMS working fine.
Think I will wait to see how the new AMD mobile processors are supported.
V smart, add an NVIDIA Rex 4000 ADA SFF gpu and you could have a v compact powerful workstation
A word of caution, I'm currently having issues when trying to install Harvester or Proxmox on the MinisForum AD650i since both installers fails to complete successfully. Furthermore, it doesn't seem that MinisForum will work on BIOS updates for it since provided BIOS (when requested) was a single BIOS version from a storage service like Google Drive. Only OS I was able to install in that other model was TrueNAS.
Thats an earlier board. It's good to know about issues like that, but I imagine the newer ones would have problems like that ironed out.
@@bhume7535 You are kidding, right? Ad650i is 3-4 months old. Do you really think they "ironed" out the problem of installing an OS which is a basic function of a motherboard.
@@fwiler I mean, kinda? With smaller companies like MF it isn't uncommon for the first iteration of a product to be abandoned without addressing a bunch of problems and instead solving them in later iterations.
I don't like it, but that's what I've noticed. Purely anecdotal.
@@fwiler "installing an OS" isn't the same thing for all OSes. Most OEMs just test and validate Windows (and use Windows-specific ACPI codes) for obvious reasons. If linux works on those boards it's because of the people in Linux ACPI subsystem adding workarounds and hacks to make it work, not because the OEM cares. There are SO MANY quirks and workarounds added in Linux ACPI to make everything work.
It's probably an ACPI issue, which will require troubleshooting and adding workarounds in Linux kernel, as is the custom for many things
Woot!
Wentell neets to look at the MinisForum MS-01
Intel Core i9-13900H (14+20 cores) $649 or Intel Core i9-12900H (14+20 cores) $549
64GB DDR5 RAM (Crucial duel 48GB = 96GB DDR5 works)
Dual 10GB SPF+ NIC
Dual 2.5GB RJ47 NIC
Dual USB 4 (Full40GB support , 20GB Thunderwire support), 2x USB3.2 Gen2, 2x USB3.2 Gen
Triple NVME (With one being able to switched to 7.5mm U.2. NVME)
16x PCIe 4.0USB3.2 Gen2
When are you going to start checking the UEFI certificate status? If you buy one without Windows, they populate it with test certificates meaning it becomes useless in a couple of years.
So both teams can now bifurcate the ×16 slot on these MinisForum products?
it's a laptop part, it's not "bifurcation", it's permanently configured by the OEM to split the PCIe lanes like that. This has always been possible with most laptop CPUs
@@marcogenovesi8570 I have have the AR900i and there is no bifurcation support (at least right now)
I'm wondering if a lower tier CPU that needs less cooling would give us more space for SATA to give us a killer home server/nas platform.
you can install asmedia sata controllers in the m.2 slots
@@marcogenovesi8570 Of course I understand that. But this is higher performance and higher power draw than a lot of us need, not to mention it uses up m.2 slots that we could use for something else.
@@ThroughFallenEyes the laptop chips they use (CPU/GPU/chipset all in one) don't have integrated sata controllers anymore. It's not a space problem. Even low end CPU of same gen or AMD laptop chips do not have sata controllers because laptops always use nvme m.2 nowadays.
If you want sata you have to use a m.2 sata controller in one of the slots. I mean there are 4 slots and one controller there can run 6 sata drives so you still have other three slots free
It reminds me of the Aliexpress mainboards with soldered laptop CPUs but probably with better support. Man makes the M93p Tiny I bought for fun a waste.
They definetly need better support for ther BIOSes!! I bought the B550 EliteMini and they will not release any BIOS update! The only available, even on request their support, is the release BIOS from 2022. No patch for LogoFail !! :((