BIG THANKS TO MODERN DAYD DEBATE FOR THIS EVENT, PLS CHECK THEM OUT ►RUclips - ruclips.net/user/ModernDayDebate Destiny Debates Actual Justice Warrior On Covid, Jan 6 And Trump... ►ruclips.net/video/Ar08OXUam-o/видео.html Liberalism vs Islam ruclips.net/video/7rZ-4uZLpNY/видео.html Destiny Meets And DEBATES Infrared In Person ruclips.net/video/30IBGHeSwak/видео.html
Ohhh August, your slipping BIG time,, "MODERN DAYD DEBATE"?!?! Better get it together or D-boy will have to find somebody COMPETANT enough to actually spell correctly................lol
@@greengold6705 hmmmmm, why your hero isn't on this panel.... This conservatif is freaking clueless n just sound like a dude that just leave his church cult
He talks literally like a child. Forget about criticizing good views, I feel bad for him. I legitimately think he might have faced physical trauma to the head as a child or adolescent that fucked him up badly. Destiny too doesn't dig into him beyond surface level out of fear of appearing ableist.
Sometimes I wonder if Hake is just playing a character at times because he exhibits all of the obvious signs for a person who does not critically think, and thats a really rare and specific character to find Irl.
Not gonna lie every time I see Hank or JLP my mind goes to such a dark place it's creepy to me. Facts never matter, people don't matter the world doesn't matter etc.
@@wewgy3745 I don't know if I'm correct, but it's my understanding that JLP has some disabilities correct? Which may be a factor in people not finding certain things he says to be as offensive. I don't know if Hake has some disabilities, but he just comes off as someone not very smart.
The religious guy right? Man I've never seen a religious person own how wild their beliefs actually are the way he did. I wonder if he understands how most people will perceive his views and arguments when he admits as much as he did. At the same time-you're right-he managed to do it without turning nasty and angry in frustration like most people with such extreme views usually would. Good on him for breaking that stereotype, it didn't do his position any favours or make him seem overly intelligent, but he seemed like a decent enough person that's worth having a conversation with.
@@brown3394 The problem with these strict (OOO) God followers is that they believe that those who don't believe are actually sinful. Our personal happiness and wellbeing IS NOT the goal of those religions. It is to give oneself over to God.
@@f4rt989 He must be acting, maybe they do believe it but exagerate what they say. Also they are fairly low iq (i think) so have been pushed to act like it, by directors.
@@povurarguingwithme3160 Hake genuinely does seem a little slow. Not meant to be an insult, just a what seems to be, descriptively. Hake speaks slowly, says nothing of substance, and makes statements without considering their logical implication. TJump's exchange with him here comes to mind: TJump: "why not consider wellbeing and happiness to be the most important metric by which we measure medical efficacy of treatment?" Hake: "I don't know" TJump: "Then why firmly say we SHOULDN'T consider wellbeing and happiness to be said metric" Hake: "Yeah, I don't know." (paraphrased) Might not be the case that he's a little slow, but I don't think it's necessarily wrong to say that's the case? Yeah it's sort of intrinsically insulting, but that's not the intent of the description. We could easily call Hake a fucking moron based on the dumb shit he said, but if we consider that he may genuinely have a narrower intellectual scope by which he can view these topics, we wouldn't call him names. We would be kinder and more understanding of how someone could come to those oddly illogical and poorly packaged conclusions.
Can we take a moment to praise those brave people up on that stage that managed to steel themselves enough to take a drink from their water at the same time as Hake spoke. That is playing with fire right there - anything this guys says is a possible spit-take. He truly is a treasure, I love him. (PS: as several pointed out here, he is very respectful and civil in the debates so good on him for that.)
"...we should have some shame and dignity, and show respect to others...by hiding your issues". Wow, that's like...literally the opposite of what a therapist would say.
So the one guy talked about how there have been good slavers, but he never seemed to admit there have been good critical race theorists. Quite telling.
Honestly the saying ‘ignorance is bliss’ fits this perfect. I bet you this guys got nothing going on up there, but damn it’d be cool for my brain to not overthink everything once in a while lol
@@shiitalkiemushrooms4487 I'm not sure if I could call that Bliss yes the crazy hamster that lives in my head that's constantly spinning this wheel is very anxiety producing but I truly fear being so ignorant that evil people can manipulate me the say and do messed up things. That sounds like the perfect movie setup where you have a person so gullible you can convince them to attack this capital of the country they say they love and beat the police with a thin Blue line flag...
This is why I like Dylan’s hosting. He does a good job of staying out of the debate and is constantly working to stop people talking over each other and allowing all members to speak.
Yeah but they hold those online debate panels for the sake of the blood sports. Those types of panels get waaaay more engagement than a video like this.
I was just thinking they HAVE to keep him around for the memes. The fact that he makes a living off speaking scares the shit out of me for the future of this country (mainly the people who support/agree with him)
Honestly an entertaining and interesting conversation. Barely any talking over eachother, almost no insults, nobody talking to the audience instead of eachother, nobody hiding their power-level, and no lying about other people's positions to try and get a gotcha. Nice job from modern day debates on this particular panel.
I think the trick is to get rid of the ability to read the chat. Without the chat it feels like it tends to lead to less performance and more focus on listening.
@@nickgardner1408 that's a pretty valid point although I think the people that showed up are a far different crowd than the chat usually is also. I imagine a lot of people were MDD fans. Where as on the live chat usually a Interlocutor brings their whole crowd.
Absolutely. To bad we see the typical sophist, "tolerant", idiots making fun of Hake's effort to engage respectfully - even though he seemingly lacks critical thinking or, perhaps, communicative ability.
What an interesting character Hake is. He's like a living caricature of conservatism, and he has to be oblivious to how dumb he comes off. Truth is he probably doesn't know he's dumb. But it doesn't quite feel like a grift.
I've honestly had the same thought. I just can't believe that a fully functional human could be as outright delusional as he is. He says shit that makes it seem like he just doesn't mentally exist in this reality.
@@12bestskater12 Exchanging one imaginary friend for another whilst pretending it is because you found the 'truth' (that one imaginary friend was imaginary and this other imaginary friend is real), is a whole new level of irony...
Amy, whom I've never come across, offered a refreshing take from her experience as a trans woman and a pragmatic approach to trans issues. Really enjoyed her
idk maybe we didnt listen to the same panel but she sounded like she was stroking out 90% of the time she talked. "I am critical of the theory of race" lmao ok
@@teesh6003 maybe you just didn't understand her point? The example you're citing is pretty clear, especially given that she explained this point to a significant degree.
The only thing worse than hearing Hake incoherently ramble, is seeing him listen to other people. He blank stares without acknowledging or listening and keeps his mouth open like he’s trying to trap some flies
This feels like bullying but his believe are so repugnant that I have to try not to be mean... I wonder if his parents are related? If so I can feel bad because he wouldn't had a choice to be this vapid void of thought.
Hake really struggles at times to bite the bullet that his religious views are the foundation for his perspective on all things - including other's wellbeing. He believes that wellbeing for ANY human (not just believers) is associated with their alignment with his religious moral and ethical values. It unfortunately lacks an ability to place oneself in another's shoes and therefore lacks true empathy and compassion (being able to view a position from someone else's perspective and then treat that person as they would like to be treated).
hake is a genuinely scary character. he keeps reiterating (when challanged) that he would not try to take away rights from people or "stand in the way of" someones freedoms. although, i have no doubt in my mind that he would not blink at throwing all gay and trans people into concentration camps givin the opportunity. why is it so important to him to pretend like he doesnt want to take away certain peoples freedoms? you could ask hake all day, by what metric does he measure what is "decent" or "wise" or "natural" and he would never be able to answer that fundemental definition. interestingly, he again seemed to insist that the reason for that is not to do with anything religious. but it obviously is, there is no other possible place for his logic to go.
The guy is nuts. I have no idea how he stumbled upon that panel. But he’s so respectful at the same time. I don’t know why they set up 3 left-wingers and one heavily retarded conservative. Awkward debate, but I enjoyed it.
This feels like the most religious conservative they could find vs 3 liberals/leftist. They could have balanced this better but it was a good conversation.
Why waste time speaking to people like hake and JLP honestly some of the dumbest people I've listened to I feel like the do themselves and the right a huge disservice
@Lydia If Hilter was pro-trans but still antisemitic it'd make the position look bad. So yes, it does matter. Not to mention that "crazy" already implies that at least some of what they stand for is bad in and of itself.
yeah he should be skeptical about that. science is a field where everyone is trying to prove something. if someone can't make a claim without deferring to a scientist, it's because they don't know the science.
Well, he's right to be leery about it. I'd be leery about deferring to catholics studying demons in the year 1200AD... they have something they're trying to prove. They'd have been considered "experts" in the field of exorcism. Their expert status didn't make what they were talking about any less BS.
@@paulares292 The scientific method wasn’t a thing back then. Please explain how ancient, archaic science is even remotely comparable to modern-day science
@@ghostwitch644 I beg you to clear your mind about both how studies are carried out, how labs and unis do research, and their motivators. Granted I'm in economy/auditing, but people have a really romantized view of studies and the scientific method, there's so much "political" (not necessarily from like actual political parties but by higher ups, companies) going on in research is actually disgusting. I can give more information if you're interested in dms but i don't wanna dox myself on youtube comments. TL;DR: "studies", specially those with sociopolitical remifications, aren't half as reliable as you might think. Be sure you know and understand everything in a study before you dare quote it.
@@ghostwitch644 consensus does not equal truth, even among people in a profession reviewing something. If a cop kills someone, and 10 other cops all say it was justified, do you trust them as experts, or do you review the footage yourself? The idea that people within a profession all can come to a consensus does not mean that they're right.
He was writing the structure of Hake’s argument. After realizing he’s an ultimate skeptic; “an agent can’t know anything, an agent can only know god” it looked like he found nothing to gain from really trying to engage with him so he started doodling and playing on his phone. Another commenter worded it perfectly in that, “You can’t reason with someone who didn’t use reason to construct their argument.” I think Destiny recognized this (amongst other considerations like platforming, etc.) so moved on.
17:58 Destiny to Hake: "Do think that all mental illnesses are fake?..." Hake: "Not necessarily" Hake said completely the opposite without equivocation during a prior debate with Destiny. Interesting.
@@johnqpublic2718 yep. I heard the debate prior and wanted to make sure I hadn't misheard. Nope. He definitely flat out lied here and/or he just refused to own his original position.
I think we should leave open the possibility that Hake has changed his mind. We don't want to publish people for not sticking with one opinion forever.
Destiny been obliterating these past few videos. Let's see this triple kill Edit. The last guy seems like he doesn't care about the child's well being but pushing his own agenda even if the kid will suffer.
There wasn't anything intelligent about his ideas though. If he was intelligent enough to articulate them, then he wouldn't have the positions he holds. He straight up admitted that his take on trans people was purely based on his feelings and "common sense" and even if Jesus himself told him he was wrong in person, he would not change. His logic is "I feel like I am right, so I am, and no amount of knowledge that I am wrong will make me wrong"
I really enjoyed this convo for the following reasons: a) the convo is civil b) nobody took things personally or turned the convo toxic by making it about themselves or hate c) nobody assumed malicious/hiddenn intent/motives/agennda of other people I would really enjoy more convos to play out like this rather than those debate bro, turd flinging, shouting match, brand obsessed, content farming, smoth brain, rage boner, hate filled, sensitive, egocentrical, clusterfucks of "debates" where two or more people behave like animals and the person with the lowest IQ take wins.
The problem is though that online debates generally derail quicker into the debate bro atmosphere because in the online environment you still have to play the game. And more importantly you feel like you have to play it. Destiny himself has often talked about the difference of an in-person debate and how people tend to be way more cooperative on a conversational level. But when you are online and probably streaming yourself at the same time, you A) don't feel like you are in a social environment ( you are but it doesn't convert as strongly cause you still sit alone in front of pc) B) you most likely are reading your own or someone else's chat. The reaction of a crowd can alter your behavior massively and in contrast it can lead you to play into the crowd's reaction just as well. These events just don't have that same vibe. Destiny's in-person debates with Vaush are the prime example for this. BOTH parties are super conversation focused and be vibin' during these events, but god forbid these two meet via a discord call while streaming. Shit just always blows up. I'm gonna be honest: This ain't just a problem caused by these two but us followers as well. Fucking swarm inteligence... Edit: I wanna add this. The in-person debates often have crowds too I realize that. But being a live audience in talks often comes with respectfull listening and a civil demeanor. In a chat we all just go ape shit ham. Keyboard warrior style you feel me.
yeah we need more people like him arguing from religious viewpoints, he actually admits everything. Would help a lot of people realize how insane their religion is.
I think its irresponsible to bring on Hake to fight for his side. He clearly has some cognitive issues and literally forms his ideas as he says them. He clearly has some axioms that his ideas come from but barely anything he say's seems like any more than 2 seconds of thought went into it. Even inviting him to panels kindof seems like bullying. I think these issues in particular are very important ones and should be given relatively competent representation on both sides and Hake clearly offsets that balance.
@@BattieGames i mean whatever it takes, the dude does honestly seem like a child. I mean plenty of further right people are crazy in their own way, but he isn't even entertaining to watch nor does he defend any of his points. Its like watching Mike Tyson beat up a 6 year old.
@@matt2522 yeah dude he reminds me of so many people. He sounds slower than many people. However me makes the same stupid arguments that many Americans make. Personally I think some people get to old and stuck in their ways to change. However the next generation easily can. If we can at least make sure children born into extremist right wing households are just less extreme we should be fine over time. Now personally I see that thought out history. There is a lot of fight over it however it seems like more progressive liberal ideas are winning out. Slowly but it’s not socially acceptable to beat the shit out of your kids when it was pretty much was 20 years ago.
@UCyJBY6V1m3DnF8wBPF78rPQ I think if you just taught kids starting in like 6th grade how to think critically on their own views and why they have them. Those kids would do most of the work for you.
It is so hard to listen to Hake talk. He is so clueless. It's not even about the arguments he's attempting to try to make. It's just he is totally lost and just saying words.
It has become increasingly frustrating listening to Destiny debate historically iliterates like this. If he would just take some history intro classes he could curbstump these idiots so hard.
The extent to which the guy on the far right (in more than one way) is lacking critical thinking skills is actually worrisome. Idk if he can even logically determine how to cross a street safely, he might need some assistance.
I really enjoyed 3 of the panel members and they all brought up good points. Lol and then there’s Hake the toddler, who to his credit is entertaining in his own way.
I commented this on another video, but I really need to say it again, there is NO REASON to EVER talk to this Hake guy, ever. He literally said, in this conversation, "There is no way you could ever change my mind, because I just have a feeling that I'm right." That is, almost by definition, irrational. If you don't hold a position based on evidence or reason, OF COURSE no evidence or reason could change your mind. You can't reason someone out of something they didn't reason themselves into. What an absolute waste of carbon.
My favourite part of the conversation is when he bit the bullet on the fact that even if Jesus Christ himself came down and told him that God loves trans people and thinks transitioning is good, he would still be against trans people because it wouldn't feel right. Truly he has maximized his irrationality, where even as a supposed devout catholic, not even God could change his stance on the issue. LITERALLY feels > God.
Hake is one of those people that just need to be told they're stupid... his whole argument style is saying "I don't think that's right" and then when asked why he says "well I don't know, nobody knows"... you can't have conversations with people like that
@gonootropics no, the person just needs to be able to back up their opinions with rational arguments... have a reason for your belief and you can have a conversation...
He basically admitted that even if the science completely confirmed he is wrong he would still hold his position anyway. Who is this guy and why is he here?
He is most people on earth. If you want earth to change for what most of use would say is better. Unity among all human groups. We need to figure out how to work with people like him and make sure his children don’t keep his opinions.
I don't think you can have a real conversation about any topic with someone like Hank on the panel. Even if you are right leaning if you are being honest you are going to spend a lot of time fighting Hanks worldview without really having your concerns addressed.
There is a good clip of Sargon talking to Brenton where Brenton talks about people being violent towards trans people. Sargon responds by saying to paraphrase “there are a lot of stupid people out there. Do you think it’s rocket scientists murdering trans people do you think it’s high.” We need people like Destiny to point the crazy sjw stereotype which he does and the right needs to acknowledge there looney fringe also to make people like JLP and Hake redundant which they already are TBH
Guy on right needs to learn how to make falsifyable arguments. Not stuff like "I accept X, but i think people that do X are not trustworthy, i think". I think EVERY view can be discussed if you can logically defend it without fallacies and genuine interest in discussing.
Possible hot take: I don't like debates like. Not good faith, civil debates - I like those - I don't like debates wherein it seems one person may genuinely be a little slow (not meant to be an insult) and they're outnumbered. I appreciate how polite and professional Hake is, but like damn dude. This made me kinda sad. Was actually rooting for Hake to make a good point, despite finding his views deeply abhorrent and worthy of public ridicule/ condemnation. Again, good on Hake for being a trooper here. 3-on-1 is a tough spot to be in, regardless of potentially wrong guess that he's perhaps not the most capable. Not as an adult tho! He seems to be doing great and making a name for himself. The pitfall of empathy man. Making people feel bad for those propagating harmful, dumbfuck ideas.
It has nothing to do with numbers. Amy or Steven would make him look dumb and delusional in a 1 on 1 debate just as easily, because that's what his takes are. You would need someone who is completely incompetent for him to win any points.
I really dislike hake, it seems like every single time hes on a panel, he always preaches that we need to get over our own delusions but everytime hes pushed on one of his opinions, it always boils down to "I dont know" or "bcuz god lol". It gets really frustrating to watch lol.
LMAO this conservative is cluuuuuueles.... How did he reach this panel...... He is... What a regular us conservative is? Man that fking scary, we r not that far from " Crusade, the return of the church" (Daaamn nxt lvl movie title I call dips)
Why has no one read any of the data showing trans women retain significantly more strength at 2 years than biological women even with lower hormones than the IOC allows . I'm all for societal changes but we're it's sport or safety you really need to look into this more. Spectrum doesn't explain a mid tier old male transitioning then suddenly be Olympics level when past prime ages .
Destiny and that other guy keep using this mental well-being argument but they're failing to acknowledge that there's people that believe they shouldn't have an arm are they shouldn't have a leg and they would arguably mentally be more happy if a doctor just cut off their arm but we don't do that so no we do not succumb to mental illness for the clients individual feelings that would be absurd
Black women don't face the same level of discrimination from the criminal justice system especially not when it comes to violent discrimination. Saying black women face all the struggles of black men and women in general just isn't accurate.
@@baileyskates False equivalence. We know for a fact that alcohol and drugs damage children's brains but hormones on the other hand do not. What comes down to tattoos tho, their body, their choice :)
@@MrMango331 no we don’t know for a fact that artificial hormones do not harm a child. None of the trans science is settled, a lot of it is politically motivated, and some of the “studies” constantly brought up by people in support of it are usually bad science
I’m a petty open minded person and don’t really ever throw the racist card…. But hake comes off a racist and bigoted person and bravo, on the other panelists for sitting through that
I started to see your content when the case of Kyle Rittenhouse, because you seemed logical, but I didn't know you were from the left. Now I don't like to watch your videos because you lack logic.
The institution of slavery is always evil. But that doesn't mean that everyone inside was evil. Some slavers would have treated slaves better and saw it as a nesseccerry evil. They couldn't do anything about it. Imagine you're the eldest son of a plantation owner. You don't like slavery, but you're not in charge so you can't free the slaves. Once your Dad dies, they're your property now, but you also have a duty to care for your family as you're the head of the household. If you free all your slaves you can't make money to care for your family. It's an evil institution which forces even good people to act in evil ways.
@@hazzardalsohazzard2624 They could have not owned slaves. The choice to own slaves makes you a bad person. You cannot be a good person who owns slaves.
@@hazzardalsohazzard2624 Yes. I would give up slaves if it meant plunging myself into poverty. Plus, this wasn't the reality. Anybody who could afford a slave was wealthy enough to live without them. It wouldn't plunge then into poverty.
@@yoloswaggins7121 it's easy to say you'd just give them up, it's a lot harder in practise. You'd have to get rid of your slaves, then rework your entire life, find a new income and then deal with the fallout of having decided slavery is wrong when everyone you know probably disagrees.
How do you get on these panels / talk to destiny.. I feel like supper delusional people keep coming on. I could have way deeper and rich discussion than most of the people destiny talks to
The trans is wrong, he is only a majority in a panel like that, it is obvious that the three on the left think the same, but most think like the one on the right, but we do not publish it.
the parapolegic is having use of their body restored, a transgender surgery is providing a completely new functionality. It seems like an imperfect analogy.
The context of the analogy was simply that we can use modern technology to improve the condition of someone's life. It doesn't matter whether it is restorative or additive (or subtractive). If it makes the person happier and isn't hurting anyone else, then it isn't wrong.
@@SchiferlED "If it makes the person happier and isn't hurting anyone else, then it isn't wrong." If the employer and the employee agree to a wage that is below minimum wage then the person getting a job and the employer are happier and not hurting anyone else therefore its not wrong. A better example may be building permits. An individual can remodel their house however they want, they arent hurting anyone. The reason why we require building permits is because of the people living around them have a right to be protected from a house that may be structurally unsound, maybe more flammable than standards or the next home owner should have a degree of confidence that the house they bought was properly constructed. Society has a say in how individuals operate within society. There are issues with transgender individuals operating in society. Should they be required to notify the person they are going on a date with of their birth sex, do we as a society tolerate children under age of consent making the decision to have surgery or get hormone therapy, how do we design sport classes in a sex neutral way where men, women and transgender individuals can fairly compete on level playing field with others, the parents have a say in whether or not their child gets surgery/should there be a requirement for the doctor to point to some type of objective data such as hormone levels, primary sex characteristics or MRIs of brain structure indicators before the child can have the surgery/hormone therapy? There is more to a decision than whether or not anyone is hurt, this is the very reason why I stopped being a libertarian.
@@nbonasoro 'There is more to a decision than whether or not anyone is hurt" Your whole comment was based on whether or not, and to what extent people are getting hurt.
@@taravanova That had nothing to do with my argument. The original post was a criticism of the analogy saying that a tech that restores functionality allows is completely fine, a tech that creates an entirely new functionality requires a different perspective than something as simple as the morality of giving someone glasses to see better.
@@nbonasoro No you are just broadening the topic of harm to other member of the community. Whether functionality is restored or created is generally irrelevant.
Would love to see more and longer interactions between Steven and Tom on a wider range of social issues. The God debate is kind of a tired non-starter and it felt like the conversation hit a wall every time it came up.
Talking to religious people is painful, I feel really bad for people who grow up in religious families and/or religious schools if every conversation goes like this
BIG THANKS TO MODERN DAYD DEBATE FOR THIS EVENT, PLS CHECK THEM OUT ►RUclips - ruclips.net/user/ModernDayDebate
Destiny Debates Actual Justice Warrior On Covid, Jan 6 And Trump... ►ruclips.net/video/Ar08OXUam-o/видео.html
Liberalism vs Islam ruclips.net/video/7rZ-4uZLpNY/видео.html
Destiny Meets And DEBATES Infrared In Person ruclips.net/video/30IBGHeSwak/видео.html
Three liberals against one low IQ conservative seems fair 😂
Are you going to debate Rob noeer in person instead of this poor low IQ conservative.
Ohhh August, your slipping BIG time,, "MODERN DAYD DEBATE"?!?! Better get it together or D-boy will have to find somebody COMPETANT enough to actually spell correctly................lol
HE MISTYPED
@@greengold6705 hmmmmm, why your hero isn't on this panel....
This conservatif is freaking clueless n just sound like a dude that just leave his church cult
Hake is like a grown man who had a Make A Wish request fulfilled to be taken seriously as a debater.
LOL 😂🤣
The bright side in that scenario would be knowing he wouldn’t be out there doing this for too much longer…..
Damn!🤣🤣
He talks literally like a child. Forget about criticizing good views, I feel bad for him. I legitimately think he might have faced physical trauma to the head as a child or adolescent that fucked him up badly. Destiny too doesn't dig into him beyond surface level out of fear of appearing ableist.
*his views (not good views)
Sometimes I wonder if Hake is just playing a character at times because he exhibits all of the obvious signs for a person who does not critically think, and thats a really rare and specific character to find Irl.
He’s trying to follow JLP footsteps. But it comes across even more racist from him for some reason.
@@wewgy3745
"For some reason"
@@wewgy3745 hmmm idk this guy just seems like a very obvious joke character😒, but then again... JLP was... My god...,😥
Not gonna lie every time I see Hank or JLP my mind goes to such a dark place it's creepy to me. Facts never matter, people don't matter the world doesn't matter etc.
@@wewgy3745 I don't know if I'm correct, but it's my understanding that JLP has some disabilities correct? Which may be a factor in people not finding certain things he says to be as offensive. I don't know if Hake has some disabilities, but he just comes off as someone not very smart.
as an empath, i feel some slave owners were just misunderstood 🥺🥺🥺✨❤️🩹😘
Meta-Reddit comment. You win. We no longer need social media.
Based
The poor persecuted slave owners😭😭😭. God help them
When they hit their slaves they feel it too 🥺🥺
*Paula Deen enters the chat*
Hake is of course a lunatic, but I will give him and the rest of the panel props for having a respectful conversation. We of course need more of this.
The religious guy right? Man I've never seen a religious person own how wild their beliefs actually are the way he did. I wonder if he understands how most people will perceive his views and arguments when he admits as much as he did. At the same time-you're right-he managed to do it without turning nasty and angry in frustration like most people with such extreme views usually would. Good on him for breaking that stereotype, it didn't do his position any favours or make him seem overly intelligent, but he seemed like a decent enough person that's worth having a conversation with.
@@f4rt989 He's not acting. No chance.
@@brown3394 The problem with these strict (OOO) God followers is that they believe that those who don't believe are actually sinful. Our personal happiness and wellbeing IS NOT the goal of those religions. It is to give oneself over to God.
@@f4rt989 He must be acting, maybe they do believe it but exagerate what they say. Also they are fairly low iq (i think) so have been pushed to act like it, by directors.
Of course
This guy is straight out of a curb your enthusiasm episode
He is obviously a little slow you tool
@@greengold6705 that’s what they’re saying
@@greengold6705 I hope this is a joke, if it’s not you may be a little slow yourself.
@@povurarguingwithme3160 no it's not a joke this poor guy is obliviously mentally handicapped.
@@povurarguingwithme3160 Hake genuinely does seem a little slow. Not meant to be an insult, just a what seems to be, descriptively. Hake speaks slowly, says nothing of substance, and makes statements without considering their logical implication. TJump's exchange with him here comes to mind:
TJump: "why not consider wellbeing and happiness to be the most important metric by which we measure medical efficacy of treatment?"
Hake: "I don't know"
TJump: "Then why firmly say we SHOULDN'T consider wellbeing and happiness to be said metric" Hake: "Yeah, I don't know."
(paraphrased)
Might not be the case that he's a little slow, but I don't think it's necessarily wrong to say that's the case? Yeah it's sort of intrinsically insulting, but that's not the intent of the description. We could easily call Hake a fucking moron based on the dumb shit he said, but if we consider that he may genuinely have a narrower intellectual scope by which he can view these topics, we wouldn't call him names. We would be kinder and more understanding of how someone could come to those oddly illogical and poorly packaged conclusions.
Can we take a moment to praise those brave people up on that stage that managed to steel themselves enough to take a drink from their water at the same time as Hake spoke. That is playing with fire right there - anything this guys says is a possible spit-take. He truly is a treasure, I love him.
(PS: as several pointed out here, he is very respectful and civil in the debates so good on him for that.)
What's the timestamp ?
I feel like this is some Hake doppelganger. It's uncanny seeing so much head movement from the guy.
Fully agree, that man is so painful to watch.
It's a variation of the pizza debate tactic
@@-47- Say what you like about Hake, but at least he never deployed the dishonest pizza tactic
"...we should have some shame and dignity, and show respect to others...by hiding your issues".
Wow, that's like...literally the opposite of what a therapist would say.
So the one guy talked about how there have been good slavers, but he never seemed to admit there have been good critical race theorists. Quite telling.
Yes, racism and anti-racism are the same. I am very smart.
@Spartan-141 Daenerys, is that you?
@Spartan-141 Stop. This is very played out and cringe.
@Spartan-141 lmao ok dude
Curious
"It makes me Leary that people are deferring to scientists and psychologists"
What the actual hell goes on in his mind
Nothing... Inside his head is a black hole collapsing on itself. No amount of known information can survive the crushing pressure of his density.
Honestly the saying ‘ignorance is bliss’ fits this perfect. I bet you this guys got nothing going on up there, but damn it’d be cool for my brain to not overthink everything once in a while lol
Like the guy is going to go home and legit think he crushed it here 😂
@@shiitalkiemushrooms4487 I'm not sure if I could call that Bliss yes the crazy hamster that lives in my head that's constantly spinning this wheel is very anxiety producing but I truly fear being so ignorant that evil people can manipulate me the say and do messed up things. That sounds like the perfect movie setup where you have a person so gullible you can convince them to attack this capital of the country they say they love and beat the police with a thin Blue line flag...
It's his brain on Jesus.
It will never happen, but I do wish that twitch panel hosts would watch these debates and see how their discussions should actually go.
I mean, a panel with 4 people will almost always be more controlled than a panel with 12.
Those hosts always have to get their opinions in and always talk as much as the panelists, they're so damn annoying
This is why I like Dylan’s hosting. He does a good job of staying out of the debate and is constantly working to stop people talking over each other and allowing all members to speak.
Yeah but they hold those online debate panels for the sake of the blood sports. Those types of panels get waaaay more engagement than a video like this.
I kinda like both types of content existing simultaneously. Sometimes you just wanna watch a shouting match you know
Hake thinks, acts, and speaks like a toddler. How is he even invited to speak at these events?
People like him make the space lose credibility. Like who the fuck gives a shhit when this is who they receive to speak lmao
Without knowing his name I already know who you are taking about. That says a lot.
I was just thinking they HAVE to keep him around for the memes. The fact that he makes a living off speaking scares the shit out of me for the future of this country (mainly the people who support/agree with him)
He probably represents the majority of the CIS male conservacuck views and IQ level.
Because people watch him un-ironically. He has people who find him likeable and agree with him. That is a real 2 sentence horror story right there...
Honestly an entertaining and interesting conversation. Barely any talking over eachother, almost no insults, nobody talking to the audience instead of eachother, nobody hiding their power-level, and no lying about other people's positions to try and get a gotcha. Nice job from modern day debates on this particular panel.
I think the trick is to get rid of the ability to read the chat. Without the chat it feels like it tends to lead to less performance and more focus on listening.
@@nickgardner1408 that's a pretty valid point although I think the people that showed up are a far different crowd than the chat usually is also.
I imagine a lot of people were MDD fans.
Where as on the live chat usually a Interlocutor brings their whole crowd.
Absolutely. To bad we see the typical sophist, "tolerant", idiots making fun of Hake's effort to engage respectfully - even though he seemingly lacks critical thinking or, perhaps, communicative ability.
@@MultiLex101 He "respectfully" thinks there were good slave-owners.
@@ucheobiekwe2287 and you do not understand the conceptual importance of moral relativism, "respectfully".
What an interesting character Hake is. He's like a living caricature of conservatism, and he has to be oblivious to how dumb he comes off. Truth is he probably doesn't know he's dumb. But it doesn't quite feel like a grift.
People like Hake never go to therapy because they’re terrified of all the personality disorders they’ll be diagnosed with.
I love how these just keep coming out. It's like when AGDQ finishes and all of the speedruns come out.
You hear the commentary for Super Mario 3D Land?
Not trying to be mean, but is Hake "all there"? He seems kinda slow and I feel bad making fun of him.
He does work alongside JLP
Yeah I feel that
I've honestly had the same thought. I just can't believe that a fully functional human could be as outright delusional as he is. He says shit that makes it seem like he just doesn't mentally exist in this reality.
He kinda talks like JLP
He sounds like he's constantly on the verge of bursting into tears. Probably brutalizer by his father and is trying to cope and justify it.
Religious man: We all have to overcome our dellusions. Most of the time we never overcome them.
*ironic*
So full of irony that 'dense' becomes the only apt description.
@@12bestskater12 Exchanging one imaginary friend for another whilst pretending it is because you found the 'truth' (that one imaginary friend was imaginary and this other imaginary friend is real), is a whole new level of irony...
@@12bestskater12 That is called imagination.
@@Rezinstance not true it was revealed to me in a dream that allah went to see that guy this morning
@@tcat_ Confirmed. It was revealed to me in a dream that it was revealed to you in a dream that allah went to see that guy this morning.
Amy, whom I've never come across, offered a refreshing take from her experience as a trans woman and a pragmatic approach to trans issues. Really enjoyed her
Yeah it was nice to not hear unhinged takes for once, they were extremely rational and actually experienced in what they talk about
idk maybe we didnt listen to the same panel but she sounded like she was stroking out 90% of the time she talked. "I am critical of the theory of race" lmao ok
Does she have a RUclips Channel?
@@teesh6003 seems oddly specific, you sure you weren’t the one stroking out 90% of the time they spoke?
@@teesh6003 maybe you just didn't understand her point? The example you're citing is pretty clear, especially given that she explained this point to a significant degree.
The only thing worse than hearing Hake incoherently ramble, is seeing him listen to other people. He blank stares without acknowledging or listening and keeps his mouth open like he’s trying to trap some flies
I'm sure he can't even count up to his IQ
Hanks a bro. Bro!
Don’t mess.
yeah he's one of those people where you can see the "below average capacity" in his face. i unironically feel bad pointing this out nowadays
This feels like bullying but his believe are so repugnant that I have to try not to be mean... I wonder if his parents are related? If so I can feel bad because he wouldn't had a choice to be this vapid void of thought.
All I hear when he speaks is duhhhh
Hake really struggles at times to bite the bullet that his religious views are the foundation for his perspective on all things - including other's wellbeing.
He believes that wellbeing for ANY human (not just believers) is associated with their alignment with his religious moral and ethical values.
It unfortunately lacks an ability to place oneself in another's shoes and therefore lacks true empathy and compassion (being able to view a position from someone else's perspective and then treat that person as they would like to be treated).
Yeah Christians make it clear that the golden rule isn't part of the Bible imo lol
@@magicdragon9621 Indeed. It is not how you wish to be treated but rather how you should treat God.
@Lydia sure. I'm not sure your point though really?
Just say that destiny is a girls name and you should win the argument
Dude on the right ALMOST had a moment of self-reflection when he spoke about overcoming delusions.
Lol
hake is a genuinely scary character. he keeps reiterating (when challanged) that he would not try to take away rights from people or "stand in the way of" someones freedoms. although, i have no doubt in my mind that he would not blink at throwing all gay and trans people into concentration camps givin the opportunity. why is it so important to him to pretend like he doesnt want to take away certain peoples freedoms?
you could ask hake all day, by what metric does he measure what is "decent" or "wise" or "natural" and he would never be able to answer that fundemental definition. interestingly, he again seemed to insist that the reason for that is not to do with anything religious. but it obviously is, there is no other possible place for his logic to go.
The guy is nuts. I have no idea how he stumbled upon that panel. But he’s so respectful at the same time. I don’t know why they set up 3 left-wingers and one heavily retarded conservative. Awkward debate, but I enjoyed it.
I love how they put this debate together just to destroy hake . I almost feel bad for him. But I dont
This feels like the most religious conservative they could find vs 3 liberals/leftist. They could have balanced this better but it was a good conversation.
I think people expected TJump to be on hakes side
@@ericstein8019 Tjump is a real fucking fence sitter though.
You would know Hake's viewpoint on anything if you know JLP's.
Why waste time speaking to people like hake and JLP honestly some of the dumbest people I've listened to I feel like the do themselves and the right a huge disservice
@@extremedrumming3393 tbf he clearly had stances here.
This transwoman is fucking phenomenal. We need more visibility for her and less on the crazy wing of trans rights activism
@Lydia If Hilter was pro-trans but still antisemitic it'd make the position look bad. So yes, it does matter. Not to mention that "crazy" already implies that at least some of what they stand for is bad in and of itself.
Lol #NotAllSlaveOwners
How does this guy keep stumbling and bumbling his way onto all these panels lmao. Genuinely
This man said "I get leery about people deferring to scientists" about scientific studies around gender... At least he's honest.
yeah he should be skeptical about that. science is a field where everyone is trying to prove something. if someone can't make a claim without deferring to a scientist, it's because they don't know the science.
Well, he's right to be leery about it.
I'd be leery about deferring to catholics studying demons in the year 1200AD... they have something they're trying to prove. They'd have been considered "experts" in the field of exorcism. Their expert status didn't make what they were talking about any less BS.
@@paulares292 The scientific method wasn’t a thing back then. Please explain how ancient, archaic science is even remotely comparable to modern-day science
@@ghostwitch644 I beg you to clear your mind about both how studies are carried out, how labs and unis do research, and their motivators. Granted I'm in economy/auditing, but people have a really romantized view of studies and the scientific method, there's so much "political" (not necessarily from like actual political parties but by higher ups, companies) going on in research is actually disgusting. I can give more information if you're interested in dms but i don't wanna dox myself on youtube comments. TL;DR: "studies", specially those with sociopolitical remifications, aren't half as reliable as you might think. Be sure you know and understand everything in a study before you dare quote it.
@@ghostwitch644 consensus does not equal truth, even among people in a profession reviewing something.
If a cop kills someone, and 10 other cops all say it was justified, do you trust them as experts, or do you review the footage yourself?
The idea that people within a profession all can come to a consensus does not mean that they're right.
7:04 Why does Destiny just reach over and start stealing paper lmao? I love the 3 seconds of contemplating before he does it too
haha this gave me life
It's a debate tactic 😂
Slippery Steve strikes again
You see him eyeball the paper and take a moment before just going in for it.
A moment I missed listening to this at work. Hahaha
He was writing the structure of Hake’s argument. After realizing he’s an ultimate skeptic; “an agent can’t know anything, an agent can only know god” it looked like he found nothing to gain from really trying to engage with him so he started doodling and playing on his phone. Another commenter worded it perfectly in that, “You can’t reason with someone who didn’t use reason to construct their argument.” I think Destiny recognized this (amongst other considerations like platforming, etc.) so moved on.
TJump advocating *for* trans rights? What universe did I walk into? Is it just that Hake is so far-right that TJump is to the left of him?
TJump I don’t think would ever be considered far-right to begin with. Not sure why you believe he was. Hake is a meme.
17:58 Destiny to Hake: "Do think that all mental illnesses are fake?..."
Hake: "Not necessarily"
Hake said completely the opposite without equivocation during a prior debate with Destiny. Interesting.
@@johnqpublic2718 yep. I heard the debate prior and wanted to make sure I hadn't misheard. Nope. He definitely flat out lied here and/or he just refused to own his original position.
@@bean-pod I mean, Hake is a pretty weasely piece of shit, so either is completely plausible.
I think we should leave open the possibility that Hake has changed his mind. We don't want to publish people for not sticking with one opinion forever.
@@hazzardalsohazzard2624 True. Do you think he is the type to state that he has changed his mind or dig in further?
@@bean-pod I have no idea, I don't think I've seen him before.
Hake is crazy and wrong but I love him anyway. At least he's polite and soft-spoken.
Destiny been obliterating these past few videos. Let's see this triple kill
Edit. The last guy seems like he doesn't care about the child's well being but pushing his own agenda even if the kid will suffer.
Hake drives me crazy. I understand his arguments but I don't think he's intelligent enough to articulate his ideas properly.
😤😤😤😤😤
There wasn't anything intelligent about his ideas though. If he was intelligent enough to articulate them, then he wouldn't have the positions he holds. He straight up admitted that his take on trans people was purely based on his feelings and "common sense" and even if Jesus himself told him he was wrong in person, he would not change.
His logic is "I feel like I am right, so I am, and no amount of knowledge that I am wrong will make me wrong"
my sleep deprived mind almost thought they would discuss CBT which would be a more interesting debate than CRT.
Ahh yes Cognitive Behavioural Therapy … that one …
What is to debate there?
@@Oldhandlewasabitcringe Ahh yes, that one indeed.
I really enjoyed this convo for the following reasons:
a) the convo is civil
b) nobody took things personally or turned the convo toxic by making it about themselves or hate
c) nobody assumed malicious/hiddenn intent/motives/agennda of other people
I would really enjoy more convos to play out like this rather than those debate bro, turd flinging, shouting match, brand obsessed, content farming, smoth brain, rage boner, hate filled, sensitive, egocentrical, clusterfucks of "debates" where two or more people behave like animals and the person with the lowest IQ take wins.
It's amazing what you can do when Infrared JonZherka isn't around.
The problem is though that online debates generally derail quicker into the debate bro atmosphere because in the online environment you still have to play the game. And more importantly you feel like you have to play it. Destiny himself has often talked about the difference of an in-person debate and how people tend to be way more cooperative on a conversational level. But when you are online and probably streaming yourself at the same time, you
A) don't feel like you are in a social environment ( you are but it doesn't convert as strongly cause you still sit alone in front of pc)
B) you most likely are reading your own or someone else's chat.
The reaction of a crowd can alter your behavior massively and in contrast it can lead you to play into the crowd's reaction just as well. These events just don't have that same vibe. Destiny's in-person debates with Vaush are the prime example for this. BOTH parties are super conversation focused and be vibin' during these events, but god forbid these two meet via a discord call while streaming. Shit just always blows up. I'm gonna be honest: This ain't just a problem caused by these two but us followers as well. Fucking swarm inteligence...
Edit: I wanna add this. The in-person debates often have crowds too I realize that. But being a live audience in talks often comes with respectfull listening and a civil demeanor. In a chat we all just go ape shit ham. Keyboard warrior style you feel me.
@@the_inquisitive_inquisitor You mean Zherka 1 and Zherka 2.
i agree, but the conservative guy had 0 arguments and when asked why he thinks that he just said idk or god LOL
Smoth brain. Love it! New one. But I love it
"there is nothing you could say that would convince me"
jesus christ
Not even Jesus Christ, actually
@@jacktitus4454 might be in the deep state
yeah we need more people like him arguing from religious viewpoints, he actually admits everything. Would help a lot of people realize how insane their religion is.
I think its irresponsible to bring on Hake to fight for his side. He clearly has some cognitive issues and literally forms his ideas as he says them. He clearly has some axioms that his ideas come from but barely anything he say's seems like any more than 2 seconds of thought went into it. Even inviting him to panels kindof seems like bullying. I think these issues in particular are very important ones and should be given relatively competent representation on both sides and Hake clearly offsets that balance.
Maybe they could give him like a care-taker/guardian to look over him for a couple debates. And then one day he can try again
@@BattieGames i mean whatever it takes, the dude does honestly seem like a child. I mean plenty of further right people are crazy in their own way, but he isn't even entertaining to watch nor does he defend any of his points. Its like watching Mike Tyson beat up a 6 year old.
@@matt2522 yeah dude he reminds me of so many people. He sounds slower than many people. However me makes the same stupid arguments that many Americans make. Personally I think some people get to old and stuck in their ways to change. However the next generation easily can. If we can at least make sure children born into extremist right wing households are just less extreme we should be fine over time. Now personally I see that thought out history. There is a lot of fight over it however it seems like more progressive liberal ideas are winning out. Slowly but it’s not socially acceptable to beat the shit out of your kids when it was pretty much was 20 years ago.
The problem is a large chunk of religious conservatives are as far gone as he is
@UCyJBY6V1m3DnF8wBPF78rPQ I think if you just taught kids starting in like 6th grade how to think critically on their own views and why they have them. Those kids would do most of the work for you.
It is so hard to listen to Hake talk. He is so clueless. It's not even about the arguments he's attempting to try to make. It's just he is totally lost and just saying words.
It has become increasingly frustrating listening to Destiny debate historically iliterates like this.
If he would just take some history intro classes he could curbstump these idiots so hard.
He needs to consult The Holy Wikis
You word that as if Destiny isn't also totally historically illiterate as well, lol
@@master2497 It is implied to some degree
@@master2497 Did you even read the comment?
The extent to which the guy on the far right (in more than one way) is lacking critical thinking skills is actually worrisome. Idk if he can even logically determine how to cross a street safely, he might need some assistance.
He probably represents 62-70% of the population.
@@poerava Yeah I don't disagree, though his case might be slightly more severe lol.
I really enjoyed 3 of the panel members and they all brought up good points. Lol and then there’s Hake the toddler, who to his credit is entertaining in his own way.
“I have cancer what should I do about it”
“Oh you should just be kind to others and not do anything about it to not offend me”
This felt like it was going to go so well and then right side guy started going on about how we should trust fathers and god over scientists.
Only 17.8% of my slaves stayed as friends when I set them free. Was I a good slave owner?
Meta as fuck. You must have calculated it.
I commented this on another video, but I really need to say it again, there is NO REASON to EVER talk to this Hake guy, ever. He literally said, in this conversation, "There is no way you could ever change my mind, because I just have a feeling that I'm right." That is, almost by definition, irrational. If you don't hold a position based on evidence or reason, OF COURSE no evidence or reason could change your mind. You can't reason someone out of something they didn't reason themselves into. What an absolute waste of carbon.
My favourite part of the conversation is when he bit the bullet on the fact that even if Jesus Christ himself came down and told him that God loves trans people and thinks transitioning is good, he would still be against trans people because it wouldn't feel right.
Truly he has maximized his irrationality, where even as a supposed devout catholic, not even God could change his stance on the issue. LITERALLY feels > God.
How did Hake even make it to the venue this day. Dude is just stringin words together
Hake is one of those people that just need to be told they're stupid... his whole argument style is saying "I don't think that's right" and then when asked why he says "well I don't know, nobody knows"... you can't have conversations with people like that
@gonootropics no, the person just needs to be able to back up their opinions with rational arguments... have a reason for your belief and you can have a conversation...
He basically admitted that even if the science completely confirmed he is wrong he would still hold his position anyway. Who is this guy and why is he here?
He is most people on earth. If you want earth to change for what most of use would say is better. Unity among all human groups. We need to figure out how to work with people like him and make sure his children don’t keep his opinions.
He literally said if Jesus came down and told him he was wrong he still wouldn't believe it. He's stuck in a Matrix of his own making.
@@gnomebody2371 He is most people on earth *but honest about it.*
I don't think you can have a real conversation about any topic with someone like Hank on the panel. Even if you are right leaning if you are being honest you are going to spend a lot of time fighting Hanks worldview without really having your concerns addressed.
There is a good clip of Sargon talking to Brenton where Brenton talks about people being violent towards trans people. Sargon responds by saying to paraphrase “there are a lot of stupid people out there. Do you think it’s rocket scientists murdering trans people do you think it’s high.” We need people like Destiny to point the crazy sjw stereotype which he does and the right needs to acknowledge there looney fringe also to make people like JLP and Hake redundant which they already are TBH
Hake never cries....his tear ducts were removed by his father....it all makes sense now...
I saw TJUMP and hake on the thumbnail and knew this would be a shit show.
I get hake but what's the issue with Tjump?
CRT is race Marxism. I once saw Black students creating their own safe space separated from the white folx. It filled me with joy.
How the South teaches history is scary AF....
They really scraping the bottom of barrel for conservatives these days
jim justus in the chat sending out strong 'drunk homeless person shouting at birds' vibes
Hake's entire world view boils down to 'I reject your reality and substitute my own.'
Guy on right needs to learn how to make falsifyable arguments. Not stuff like "I accept X, but i think people that do X are not trustworthy, i think".
I think EVERY view can be discussed if you can logically defend it without fallacies and genuine interest in discussing.
Possible hot take: I don't like debates like. Not good faith, civil debates - I like those - I don't like debates wherein it seems one person may genuinely be a little slow (not meant to be an insult) and they're outnumbered.
I appreciate how polite and professional Hake is, but like damn dude. This made me kinda sad. Was actually rooting for Hake to make a good point, despite finding his views deeply abhorrent and worthy of public ridicule/ condemnation.
Again, good on Hake for being a trooper here. 3-on-1 is a tough spot to be in, regardless of potentially wrong guess that he's perhaps not the most capable. Not as an adult tho! He seems to be doing great and making a name for himself.
The pitfall of empathy man. Making people feel bad for those propagating harmful, dumbfuck ideas.
It has nothing to do with numbers. Amy or Steven would make him look dumb and delusional in a 1 on 1 debate just as easily, because that's what his takes are. You would need someone who is completely incompetent for him to win any points.
Hake just projects. Every time he opens his mouth he shows you how repressed he is.
Destiny did like 5 hours of live Debate that day
POG
@@deigovideos1031 hahah exactly
I really dislike hake, it seems like every single time hes on a panel, he always preaches that we need to get over our own delusions but everytime hes pushed on one of his opinions, it always boils down to "I dont know" or "bcuz god lol". It gets really frustrating to watch lol.
Yeah, he is very feelings motivated, like most conservatives.
I can't believe Hake is taken seriously by some people to this point
@@ATSaale Truu
LMAO this conservative is cluuuuuueles....
How did he reach this panel......
He is... What a regular us conservative is?
Man that fking scary, we r not that far from " Crusade, the return of the church" (Daaamn nxt lvl movie title I call dips)
The way Hake talks reminds me of a right-wing mr.girl lmao
Why has no one read any of the data showing trans women retain significantly more strength at 2 years than biological women even with lower hormones than the IOC allows .
I'm all for societal changes but we're it's sport or safety you really need to look into this more. Spectrum doesn't explain a mid tier old male transitioning then suddenly be Olympics level when past prime ages .
This man gulping in his mic is tilting me
"I think there's just something kind of wrong with it (trasgenderism), you know what I mean?" He asked the trans woman.
Destiny and that other guy keep using this mental well-being argument but they're failing to acknowledge that there's people that believe they shouldn't have an arm are they shouldn't have a leg and they would arguably mentally be more happy if a doctor just cut off their arm but we don't do that so no we do not succumb to mental illness for the clients individual feelings that would be absurd
Leave it to Hake to make TJump sound like a genius.
Black women don't face the same level of discrimination from the criminal justice system especially not when it comes to violent discrimination. Saying black women face all the struggles of black men and women in general just isn't accurate.
This dude really out here saying "I should be able to cause harm to my child just because I feel like it, also fuck science".
Thats like saying not letting a child have sex, get a tattoo, do legal drugs, or drink alcohol is "causing harm".
@@baileyskates how are those statements comparable?
@@baileyskates False equivalence. We know for a fact that alcohol and drugs damage children's brains but hormones on the other hand do not. What comes down to tattoos tho, their body, their choice :)
@@MrMango331 no we don’t know for a fact that artificial hormones do not harm a child. None of the trans science is settled, a lot of it is politically motivated, and some of the “studies” constantly brought up by people in support of it are usually bad science
@@yeyuhz7983 What makes you think hormone therapy would be dangerous to people aged 16 but not 18?
I’m a petty open minded person and don’t really ever throw the racist card…. But hake comes off a racist and bigoted person and bravo, on the other panelists for sitting through that
I'd really like to know what TJump thinks about Jonathan Haidt's research on morality and intuition.
You could probably message him. He seems pretty engaged with his community.
I started to see your content when the case of Kyle Rittenhouse, because you seemed logical, but I didn't know you were from the left. Now I don't like to watch your videos because you lack logic.
Anyone else notice Hake's extra spacing from the trans person next to him?
Shoutout to the ASMR gulps/swallows
No such thing as a good slave owner. Slavery is immoral. Period.
The institution of slavery is always evil. But that doesn't mean that everyone inside was evil. Some slavers would have treated slaves better and saw it as a nesseccerry evil. They couldn't do anything about it.
Imagine you're the eldest son of a plantation owner. You don't like slavery, but you're not in charge so you can't free the slaves. Once your Dad dies, they're your property now, but you also have a duty to care for your family as you're the head of the household. If you free all your slaves you can't make money to care for your family. It's an evil institution which forces even good people to act in evil ways.
@@hazzardalsohazzard2624 They could have not owned slaves. The choice to own slaves makes you a bad person. You cannot be a good person who owns slaves.
@@yoloswaggins7121 Would you give up something immoral if it meant plunging yourself and others into poverty? It's easy to say and a lot harder to do.
@@hazzardalsohazzard2624 Yes. I would give up slaves if it meant plunging myself into poverty.
Plus, this wasn't the reality. Anybody who could afford a slave was wealthy enough to live without them. It wouldn't plunge then into poverty.
@@yoloswaggins7121 it's easy to say you'd just give them up, it's a lot harder in practise.
You'd have to get rid of your slaves, then rework your entire life, find a new income and then deal with the fallout of having decided slavery is wrong when everyone you know probably disagrees.
Juuuuust when i was about to do something productive with my time.. August yanks me into this clusterf*ck.
This Hake guy is crazy elitist.
I wish mr girl were on this panel instead of the religious guy.
Mr girl needs to interview hake
Oh my God, Destiny grabbing paper from the guy next to him is amazing
Please timestamp xD
@@igora50 7:06
Ahh the ol' "i need paper for notes" debate tactic. Right up there with "eating pizza" and "talking fast"
@@rabidnative0000 I dont think it has the same status yet...
Hake saying, that deferring to medical professionals in matters of health is bad, is hilarious.
How do you get on these panels / talk to destiny..
I feel like supper delusional people keep coming on. I could have way deeper and rich discussion than most of the people destiny talks to
Is it weird that I... almost kind of feel for Hake here...? He seems to be making a good faith effort. He's just so, so lost.
He’s paid handsomely to be so so lost.
That means your not just playing a team sport in politics and there is actual hope for you lol
I miss when you where meta
@@lawsonharrison6927 are you saying that to me or to hake? i don't give a fuck about playing team sport politics. hake is just off the deep end.
@@jamesdonoughue4557 me too u_u
The trans is wrong, he is only a majority in a panel like that, it is obvious that the three on the left think the same, but most think like the one on the right, but we do not publish it.
I get all of my politics from Chris Tucker 😂😂😂 Tucker 2024 😀
That hypothetical analogy Hake told was just so mask-off.
already saw this on the modern day debates channel, now I shall suffer from content draught.
the parapolegic is having use of their body restored, a transgender surgery is providing a completely new functionality. It seems like an imperfect analogy.
The context of the analogy was simply that we can use modern technology to improve the condition of someone's life. It doesn't matter whether it is restorative or additive (or subtractive). If it makes the person happier and isn't hurting anyone else, then it isn't wrong.
@@SchiferlED "If it makes the person happier and isn't hurting anyone else, then it isn't wrong." If the employer and the employee agree to a wage that is below minimum wage then the person getting a job and the employer are happier and not hurting anyone else therefore its not wrong. A better example may be building permits. An individual can remodel their house however they want, they arent hurting anyone. The reason why we require building permits is because of the people living around them have a right to be protected from a house that may be structurally unsound, maybe more flammable than standards or the next home owner should have a degree of confidence that the house they bought was properly constructed.
Society has a say in how individuals operate within society. There are issues with transgender individuals operating in society. Should they be required to notify the person they are going on a date with of their birth sex, do we as a society tolerate children under age of consent making the decision to have surgery or get hormone therapy, how do we design sport classes in a sex neutral way where men, women and transgender individuals can fairly compete on level playing field with others, the parents have a say in whether or not their child gets surgery/should there be a requirement for the doctor to point to some type of objective data such as hormone levels, primary sex characteristics or MRIs of brain structure indicators before the child can have the surgery/hormone therapy?
There is more to a decision than whether or not anyone is hurt, this is the very reason why I stopped being a libertarian.
@@nbonasoro 'There is more to a decision than whether or not anyone is hurt" Your whole comment was based on whether or not, and to what extent people are getting hurt.
@@taravanova That had nothing to do with my argument. The original post was a criticism of the analogy saying that a tech that restores functionality allows is completely fine, a tech that creates an entirely new functionality requires a different perspective than something as simple as the morality of giving someone glasses to see better.
@@nbonasoro No you are just broadening the topic of harm to other member of the community. Whether functionality is restored or created is generally irrelevant.
Would love to see more and longer interactions between Steven and Tom on a wider range of social issues. The God debate is kind of a tired non-starter and it felt like the conversation hit a wall every time it came up.
"Satan could whisper to you that it's ok" 🤣😂🤣🙄
Talking to religious people is painful, I feel really bad for people who grow up in religious families and/or religious schools if every conversation goes like this
Holy s#!t...the irony of Hake saying others are delusional...
Look how far Hake is sitting from the trans person lol.
I would too.
How are any slave owners good slave owners?
Are they pampering there slaves?
Are grooming them like pets?
Big thumbs up 👍for another great contribution by TJump to the discourse.
At this point it's almost guranteed that Hake has Brain Damage!🌹