I’ve actually used the tail fins both as pitch and roll a lot, usually for faster planes because it isn’t so sensitive so I don’t spin out of control and it makes me go faster (less drag).
I'd like to see you add an additional step to the process after a successful flight: modernizing it. Give it dragon thrusters and maybe do some sort of gauntlet run of sorts
What if you did this but with your friends? (You will all get the same image. They would all be war based.) and then fought for multiplayer Monday? Would be fun to see the many different approaches you and your friends take.
The thrusters need to be flipped upside down as that should help reduce its tendency to automatically nose down, by placing the directional thrust lower in comparison to CoM. The controlling elevators can also be shortened just a little to significantly help with that nosing down effect as this moves the Center of Lift forwards. While adding weight can eventually produce similar results, it has the side effect of decreased overall power and tends to create that teeter totter effect by creating a larger CoM to be balanced by the CoL. I know that this particular project is over but just thought this info might be helpful for any future projects you might create. Keep up the great work!
You should totally start a series of taking real world plane and vehicle designs no longer in use and testing them out and modifying them to show what a perfected version could've looked like.
I'm more interested in what they were drinking. This was before most road rules as we understand them, so they could have been sloshed or high while flying. It would explain all the crashes of an 'easy to fly' aircraft.
Pro tip: If you wanna cut on your wings lift, you can add blocks on top or under the wings, it can be armor or connector block, becouse wings need one block space to work properley so you can really fine tune your lift distribution with simple connectors or armor pieces.
You should use a controller for complex builds like this, having analogue control of some of it is very good and makes it much easier to control. With the elevons (pitch and roll control) you could have either set the weight in the logic to 0.5 but that would limit the total control, or with a controller you could use an analogue axis which would allow both to control the elevons different amounts. It would also help you correct for certain problems like it nosediving, with a keyboard the elevons are either up or down, but with a controller you could hold it at like 30% up to compensate or something like that. These sort of games benefit massively from analogue control with something like controllers, that is one of the reasons I found Main Assembly unplayable, the terrible controller support and not allowing you to remap certain controls. If you look at a lot of real vehicles or machinery, a lot of it has analogue control, which is very important to make it controllable and functional, using a keyboard is a huge restriction since it is digital.
You should try making planes with trim. It's really easy to do... just double your control mechanism, whether a steering hinge or rotating servo, and put one of them on very slow (0.05 speed) and 10-15° of pitch, with Hold Position, on a separate keybind. So fuselage -> steering hinge (trim) -> steering hinge (main pitch) -> control surface. With Airborne parts it's even easier, as you can just add a second elevator piece ahead or below the main elevator. The trim elevators don't have to be as big in that case. The benefit for that, aside from far greater stability (it'll be quite the hack for your glider competitions!), and not having to pull back on the stick all the time just to stay level, is also that it makes your pitch control symmetrical. If you think of a trimless elevator, it's having to pull up a little just to maintain level flight, so it's kind of "using up" some of its total pitch reserve. With the trim hinges/servos, the trim system will take up that pitch-up to get neutral pitch, so you then have 100% of your main pitch available for pitching up. It's also insanely useful on subs. I've been trying to work out a way to do an auto-rudder, but... the programming/logic in this game is _suuuper_ simplistic and I don't think it works, because you can't actually pass an angle or compass output... just a binary comparator result. Honestly, if I could get a game that's basically From the Depths' building and programming and weapons, with Trailmaker's physics, it would be _glorious!_ If you're not familiar, FtD is an incredible voxel builder where you can make enormous warships, subs, tanks, planes, hovercraft, and even space vehicles, which you can control yourself, or program AI to control (or both). Its downfall is that its physics is just about the worst I've ever seen in a video game, especially at the water/air interface. Which, for a game that's ostensibly mostly about _ships,_ is kind of, uh...
Elevators are for pitch. Ailerons are for roll. The article said the elevators were used for roll, which means that what you did is correct, and those control surfaces are called elevons (elevator/aileron conjoined).
Hey dear Scrapman :) build trick for u, u can use a single XOR Gate to controll pitch and roll on twice rotors or hinges its better because less logic and block space...have a good day :) and love ur vids
damn, this would be great to revive as a real design also I had an interesting thought, lol, kinda mix of a helicopter and plane! like, you could have two discs rotating opposite directions, around the cockpit, like helicopter blades, but ALSO have them act as annular wings, with the thrust being more forward, like a plane... it sounds like the best of both worlds, and looking even more like a flying saucer!
4:00ish... So... consistently pleasant to Fly and Crash...? This might be a promising Plane Model Launchpad McQuack could use to train potential future Students in on how to land Crashes one can walk away from! :P End of Vid: I can't help but to wonder if anyone's ever made a scale model of this Plane and tested how it looks in one of those fancy schmancy 'Aerodynamics Wind Tunnel Tester Thingies'...? It'd be really interesting seeing how the Wind actually really decides to interact with that Wing and Fin Shape... 🤔
Scrapman, if some of your beautiful creation disappears then you can backspace/whatever’s button you have to return to the checkpoint. Nice video btw!!!!
Idea for the Multiplayer Monday. Each of you build an historic "experimental" craft without consulting your pick, research, or build design, and race some course or complete some challenge. See which historic design handles the task the best
With these videos you should do like a movie remake style of some of the stories with the creations. Like when it says how it flew smoothly you can be narrating that and than like 2 seconds later say "and than it crashed into a lake" and reanact that in the background
Did note from the final design in the pic that from the lateral view the wing did not seem to be exactly horizontal and flat. Seemed to angle and curve down a little to the aft. Wonder if they were creating a little bit of a lifting surface from the overall wing's surface area, not just using the lifting effect from the wing's normal shape.
5:07 There should be a TRAILMAKERS Multiplayer Monday where a two seater plane in controlled by two people, both of them controlling diffirent parts of the plane.
So it's nice to fly, but it crashes a lot, but you have a really good chance of surviving, probably because you're surrounded on all sides by stuff to cushion your fall
The nose dive would also be caused by thrust. Your mini thrusters apply the thrust above the centerline if the craft and create a tip, and there was nothing to right that. If you alternate their placement so one pair is engine up another engine down that would help. Written right after tha paint scheme
I've been wanting a larger propeller in TM practically since the day it came out. I mostly build planes and I like prop planes, so I either have to build them tiny (which I do like) or add thrusters or use heli blades or whatever for larger projects.
@@stevepittman3770 Completely agree, Steve! I have recently started building smaller prop planes (given the size of the prop) and would love to build larger ones in the future. Cheers!
@@short0811 Yeah, I do quite enjoy building micro-planes, especially very maneuverable ones. But I would like to build larger stuff with reasonable propellers too.
Some funny planes, where I grew up there was a podiatrist that created the Arup S-1 aka "flying heel" which Boeing basically copied with their B-390 and if you want a few more to look at try the Fauvel AV-10, Chyeranovskii BICh-7 or Vought XF5U.
16:14 Maybe that's what caused the crashes, the pilots needing to do some corrections and going too heavy on them, making the craft spin out of control. That'd explain the "pleasing" flight but subsequent crashes.
I think in that era of flight pretty much every plane crashed fairly regularly. Being "pleasant to fly" and still crashing just means it was a good design as the opposite would be "unpleasant to fly" and then crashing, which would probably also resulted in some pilot deaths.
The front wings were angled up (the front was mounted higher than the rear) this was probably why you were having the issue with Pitching down and not pitching up like the real one and the wings were in a slight V/Gull wing shape configurataion
I feel like this design would make more sense with WESD controls rather than using awkward logic. WS is up and down for the left elevator. E and D is up and down for the right elevator. 2 and 3 would be yaw.
Hey, ScrapMan, you probably should do a wing experiment videos to better understand the calculations of aerodynamics, like when you did the video of wedge experiments in scrap mechanic
4:40 Yes, we should have like mirrored version in relate to engines, Bulldog engine-weak, RAW engine-stronger, Dragone engine-the strongest. We should have like every motion source scalled this way.
Day 79 of Asking scrapman to make a Machine that make that uses the steal balls and magnets to make the steal ball orbit around your creation with out any thing touching them and try to take out a building with it in instruments of destruction
you should make a series were you would pick something like this and build it but in different games then compare them... so you could have done this one in main assembly and scrap mechanic aswel then compared flight and style... I think it would be a cool series.
then the concept was carried on by Vought, in the Vought V-173, and then the Vought XF5U, germany took a stab at it with the Sack AS-6. THEN there is technically the Nemeth Parasol, but i'm not sure i'd count that. in truth the Parasol might just be an early attempt at... a parasail plain using fixed rigid parachute
ScrapMan : *uses wedge pieces* Me : bro can’t you see there are quadrants in the aerodynamic section so you can make it look like the plane and it will make it more beautiful
Comfortable to fly doesn't necessarily mean it's hard to crash. The a380 is supposedly a comfortable plane to fly but can still be pretty easily crashed with a few inputs
From the description of the third plane, it seems that Lee, the guy funding the project, wanted to fly it. I doubt he had the aviation experience to successfully pilot a test plane, so he's probably the biggest reason that version crashed
![KSI - Dirty [Official Visualiser]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VoDh1h1dPUE/mqdefault.jpg)
I’ve actually used the tail fins both as pitch and roll a lot, usually for faster planes because it isn’t so sensitive so I don’t spin out of control and it makes me go faster (less drag).
I'd like to see you add an additional step to the process after a successful flight: modernizing it. Give it dragon thrusters and maybe do some sort of gauntlet run of sorts
That's a really good idea
6 months and 9 days of asking ScrapMan for building an ekranoplan.
saw you long ago, respect
I recommend going to his discord
Nice
Over a year of asking/begging him to upload his designs to steam
Get on my level
@@Alpha-omega-beginning-and-end ong
3:30 "all of them had a pleasant time crashing the plane" 😂😂
This build performed WAY better than I thought it would. lol
What if you did this but with your friends? (You will all get the same image. They would all be war based.) and then fought for multiplayer Monday? Would be fun to see the many different approaches you and your friends take.
Hard not to wonder if Yzuei would be OP at this...
Would love to see a series like this on Stormworks.
Me too! i love stormworks (almost 3k hours) and want to see it get the attention it deserves!
Im pretty sure he has already played Stormworks at one point so he should own the game
@@boxothefemboy as a factorio player, that is pathetic
@@diamondapocalypse5019 oh ok
The thrusters need to be flipped upside down as that should help reduce its tendency to automatically nose down, by placing the directional thrust lower in comparison to CoM. The controlling elevators can also be shortened just a little to significantly help with that nosing down effect as this moves the Center of Lift forwards.
While adding weight can eventually produce similar results, it has the side effect of decreased overall power and tends to create that teeter totter effect by creating a larger CoM to be balanced by the CoL. I know that this particular project is over but just thought this info might be helpful for any future projects you might create. Keep up the great work!
6:05 starting out good, with a crash, very historical :)
You should totally start a series of taking real world plane and vehicle designs no longer in use and testing them out and modifying them to show what a perfected version could've looked like.
At this point im tryna figure out what people making early planes were thinking
They had crack as a core element of cough medicine, so that might have influenced people
tube with engine and flat things fly trust me im a veterinarian
some guy with a phd on the 1900's.
Literally anything and everything they thought might work, since the "obvious" solutions we have now hadn't been found yet.
I'm more interested in what they were drinking. This was before most road rules as we understand them, so they could have been sloshed or high while flying. It would explain all the crashes of an 'easy to fly' aircraft.
@@SoMuchFacepalm I readed somewhere that it wasn't unusual for the pilots to drink whisky before flying to calm down
I’d love to see you give the other guys your strange planes to fly and see their reactions
This is really like an early delta wing design. Amazing that someone thought of it so early.
I've actually built a circular wing plane and it's incredibly agile, I'd love to see what you think Scrapman.
Love the videos man keep them coming!
Especially how you test new ideas people have.
this could be so cool to see in main assembly btw
Pro tip:
If you wanna cut on your wings lift, you can add blocks on top or under the wings, it can be armor or connector block, becouse wings need one block space to work properley so you can really fine tune your lift distribution with simple connectors or armor pieces.
I'm so happy you finally continued this series!
You should use a controller for complex builds like this, having analogue control of some of it is very good and makes it much easier to control. With the elevons (pitch and roll control) you could have either set the weight in the logic to 0.5 but that would limit the total control, or with a controller you could use an analogue axis which would allow both to control the elevons different amounts. It would also help you correct for certain problems like it nosediving, with a keyboard the elevons are either up or down, but with a controller you could hold it at like 30% up to compensate or something like that. These sort of games benefit massively from analogue control with something like controllers, that is one of the reasons I found Main Assembly unplayable, the terrible controller support and not allowing you to remap certain controls. If you look at a lot of real vehicles or machinery, a lot of it has analogue control, which is very important to make it controllable and functional, using a keyboard is a huge restriction since it is digital.
You should try making planes with trim. It's really easy to do... just double your control mechanism, whether a steering hinge or rotating servo, and put one of them on very slow (0.05 speed) and 10-15° of pitch, with Hold Position, on a separate keybind. So fuselage -> steering hinge (trim) -> steering hinge (main pitch) -> control surface. With Airborne parts it's even easier, as you can just add a second elevator piece ahead or below the main elevator. The trim elevators don't have to be as big in that case.
The benefit for that, aside from far greater stability (it'll be quite the hack for your glider competitions!), and not having to pull back on the stick all the time just to stay level, is also that it makes your pitch control symmetrical. If you think of a trimless elevator, it's having to pull up a little just to maintain level flight, so it's kind of "using up" some of its total pitch reserve. With the trim hinges/servos, the trim system will take up that pitch-up to get neutral pitch, so you then have 100% of your main pitch available for pitching up.
It's also insanely useful on subs.
I've been trying to work out a way to do an auto-rudder, but... the programming/logic in this game is _suuuper_ simplistic and I don't think it works, because you can't actually pass an angle or compass output... just a binary comparator result.
Honestly, if I could get a game that's basically From the Depths' building and programming and weapons, with Trailmaker's physics, it would be _glorious!_ If you're not familiar, FtD is an incredible voxel builder where you can make enormous warships, subs, tanks, planes, hovercraft, and even space vehicles, which you can control yourself, or program AI to control (or both). Its downfall is that its physics is just about the worst I've ever seen in a video game, especially at the water/air interface. Which, for a game that's ostensibly mostly about _ships,_ is kind of, uh...
WOW, awesome, i loved how the wings were formed in a circle
Elevators are for pitch. Ailerons are for roll. The article said the elevators were used for roll, which means that what you did is correct, and those control surfaces are called elevons (elevator/aileron conjoined).
Hey dear Scrapman :) build trick for u, u can use a single XOR Gate to controll pitch and roll on twice rotors or hinges its better because less logic and block space...have a good day :) and love ur vids
damn, this would be great to revive as a real design
also I had an interesting thought, lol, kinda mix of a helicopter and plane! like, you could have two discs rotating opposite directions, around the cockpit, like helicopter blades, but ALSO have them act as annular wings, with the thrust being more forward, like a plane... it sounds like the best of both worlds, and looking even more like a flying saucer!
"look at that. Look at that, progress." 12:19 the amount of sarcasm in that sentence XD
This aircraft feels like it will fit to other delta wing aircrafts because of the wing placement and the controls
I wonder: would reversing the back half of the wings, so the leading edges are on the inside, help at all?
4:00ish... So... consistently pleasant to Fly and Crash...? This might be a promising Plane Model Launchpad McQuack could use to train potential future Students in on how to land Crashes one can walk away from! :P
End of Vid: I can't help but to wonder if anyone's ever made a scale model of this Plane and tested how it looks in one of those fancy schmancy 'Aerodynamics Wind Tunnel Tester Thingies'...? It'd be really interesting seeing how the Wind actually really decides to interact with that Wing and Fin Shape... 🤔
Scrapman, if some of your beautiful creation disappears then you can backspace/whatever’s button you have to return to the checkpoint. Nice video btw!!!!
4:29 Remember lads, If you aren't convinced that one proppeler gonna be enough...
it wont be enough.
Idea for the Multiplayer Monday. Each of you build an historic "experimental" craft without consulting your pick, research, or build design, and race some course or complete some challenge. See which historic design handles the task the best
8:00 you can do this with 1 logic gate that controls both sides. some controls will be in the servos and some in the logic gate.
Nice build. Love that old medical device colour.
With these videos you should do like a movie remake style of some of the stories with the creations. Like when it says how it flew smoothly you can be narrating that and than like 2 seconds later say "and than it crashed into a lake" and reanact that in the background
finally another dang trailmakers video and it's a historical creation video one of the best kinds of videos let's go
Did note from the final design in the pic that from the lateral view the wing did not seem to be exactly horizontal and flat. Seemed to angle and curve down a little to the aft. Wonder if they were creating a little bit of a lifting surface from the overall wing's surface area, not just using the lifting effect from the wing's normal shape.
This was a very pleasant video, thanks Scrapman
5:07
There should be a TRAILMAKERS Multiplayer Monday where a two seater plane in controlled by two people, both of them controlling diffirent parts of the plane.
That bit went sad fairly quickly though
This series should be called “making impractical designs practical”
The accidental hinge movement gave me an idea: recreate a variable-sweep wing aircraft.
That's actually pretty easy to do in trailmakers
for medium propellers, use oars on a helicopter servo
So it's nice to fly, but it crashes a lot, but you have a really good chance of surviving, probably because you're surrounded on all sides by stuff to cushion your fall
2:28 "Fortunately, England survived."
"grunts in German"
You always find the best content opportunities
ngl a series like this but were you do this type of stuff in Instruments of destruction would be pretty cool.
the annular monoplane is so cool!
you could do the pitch and roll way easier with two servos stacked on top of each other. love the vids, keep it up.
The nose dive would also be caused by thrust. Your mini thrusters apply the thrust above the centerline if the craft and create a tip, and there was nothing to right that. If you alternate their placement so one pair is engine up another engine down that would help.
Written right after tha paint scheme
Completely agree about a medium and large propeller in Trailmakers!
I've been wanting a larger propeller in TM practically since the day it came out. I mostly build planes and I like prop planes, so I either have to build them tiny (which I do like) or add thrusters or use heli blades or whatever for larger projects.
@@stevepittman3770 Completely agree, Steve! I have recently started building smaller prop planes (given the size of the prop) and would love to build larger ones in the future.
Cheers!
@@short0811 Yeah, I do quite enjoy building micro-planes, especially very maneuverable ones. But I would like to build larger stuff with reasonable propellers too.
Some funny planes, where I grew up there was a podiatrist that created the Arup S-1 aka "flying heel" which Boeing basically copied with their B-390 and if you want a few more to look at try the Fauvel AV-10, Chyeranovskii BICh-7 or Vought XF5U.
16:14 Maybe that's what caused the crashes, the pilots needing to do some corrections and going too heavy on them, making the craft spin out of control. That'd explain the "pleasing" flight but subsequent crashes.
I think in that era of flight pretty much every plane crashed fairly regularly. Being "pleasant to fly" and still crashing just means it was a good design as the opposite would be "unpleasant to fly" and then crashing, which would probably also resulted in some pilot deaths.
"are you noticing a bit of a pattern right now?" ah yes a perfectly good meme format
The front wings were angled up (the front was mounted higher than the rear) this was probably why you were having the issue with Pitching down and not pitching up like the real one and the wings were in a slight V/Gull wing shape configurataion
I feel like this design would make more sense with WESD controls rather than using awkward logic. WS is up and down for the left elevator. E and D is up and down for the right elevator. 2 and 3 would be yaw.
Hey, ScrapMan, you probably should do a wing experiment videos to better understand the calculations of aerodynamics, like when you did the video of wedge experiments in scrap mechanic
4:40 Yes, we should have like mirrored version in relate to engines, Bulldog engine-weak, RAW engine-stronger, Dragone engine-the strongest. We should have like every motion source scalled this way.
Finally more Trailmakers vids
I recently got trailmakers, and I'm currently working on building you a ScrapTruck!!
Trailmakers needs some sort of flex beam like instruments of destruction and maybe a cable thing too.
The Hughes XH-17 skycrane looks like it could be an interesting build
Hey I would love to see a mig 23 bild by you... it has an interesting swept-wing design and also only tail control when in supersonic mode
You should do a video on your favourite creations you have made
15:25 An yes, a nice balanced state
Day 79 of Asking scrapman to make a Machine that make that uses the steal balls and magnets to make the steal ball orbit around your creation with out any thing touching them and try to take out a building with it in instruments of destruction
I want more scrapman history lessons i loved this one
Imho, most of the lift was really cancelling itself and your only lifting force was provided by the tail. That's why it was "front heavy".
you should make a series were you would pick something like this and build it but in different games then compare them... so you could have done this one in main assembly and scrap mechanic aswel then compared flight and style... I think it would be a cool series.
oh that was really fun to watch and such a cool plane :)
The front seat in the original is placed further to the rear, behind the landing gear. Could help with the balancing maybe.
Dunno how well it worked but it does look pretty cool.
This is overall the most unique plane in that museum but for trailmakers this is normal cause some are physically impossible to fly in real life
I fond it interesting that this plane was build only a year after the Wright Brothers took flight.
What I think would be a really cool racing plane for trail makers is the c.561 Caudron
Looks awesome, the seat placement was a little bit off tho
I would have just flipped the rear wings upside down, giving a downward force and keeping the front up:)
In between the gaps on the wings you could have put anchor pins to hold them together
He finally posted a trailmakers video!!!
then the concept was carried on by Vought, in the Vought V-173, and then the Vought XF5U, germany took a stab at it with the Sack AS-6. THEN there is technically the Nemeth Parasol, but i'm not sure i'd count that. in truth the Parasol might just be an early attempt at... a parasail plain using fixed rigid parachute
Hey, if you like planes that are circle shaped you could try to build a "Sack AS-6". Or how about helicopters like the Fi-282 or FA 223?
When was the last time you were on main assembly for something like this?
Yooo I just broke my arm and u are the only one I’ve been watching soo far😅
YOU SHOULD DO MORE TRAILMAKERS
The maneuver you perform whe trying to roll is called a Post Stall Maneuver(PSM)
You know the vought v173 "Flying pancake"
Well the Lee-Richards Annular monoplane should be considered the *Flying donut*
I would love to see you build the Junkers Ju 52.
ScrapMan : *uses wedge pieces*
Me : bro can’t you see there are quadrants in the aerodynamic section so you can make it look like the plane and it will make it more beautiful
Comfortable to fly doesn't necessarily mean it's hard to crash. The a380 is supposedly a comfortable plane to fly but can still be pretty easily crashed with a few inputs
Very nice Video! Maybe you can try to build the Bartini Stall-6?
Can yiu make the rotordyne? It's a weird heli plane that has flown but only being cancelled due to lack of funding
My wife, the pilot, recommends that you give the aircraft a V-tail for better roll and lift performance.
i would say that this would have been alot easier to make in main assembly
The circular wing looks like a giant toilet seat.
From the description of the third plane, it seems that Lee, the guy funding the project, wanted to fly it. I doubt he had the aviation experience to successfully pilot a test plane, so he's probably the biggest reason that version crashed
Video idea: make an annular wing fighter jet
You only needed 2 logic gates. The controls on the part itself can be used in addition to logic.
For adding pitch and roll to the ailerons add pitch to then then u only need 1 logic gate and connect them all to it for roll
Scrapman the way the nose kept pitching down was probably the reason why they crashed😂
Hi, I love your vids
Any one notice haw he crashes into the see after saying it was a joy to fly