2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E: E3 - Hoist Review | Front Suspension
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Sandy and and the Munro Live team get the Mach-E up on a hoist and check out the suspension and undercarriage of the vehicle.
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#ford #mustangmache #mache
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You can tell when Sandy is really excited about something he's evaluating by how focused he becomes, how quickly he talks, etc. He's like a kid in a candy store when he gets to see clever design and engineering that takes him by surprise. Love it.
guessing not many people go to the candy store with news.... and stuff...
is he unaware that Ford and VW are doing electric cars together?
@@hagestad Are you unaware that applies only to commercial vehicles and has nothing to do with this or the iD4?
@@patreekotime4578 Isn't Ford buying 600000 MEB from VW?
These videos are so valuable in seeing the details most of us never look at.
Thanks, Glad you enjoy them!
Great to see Ford finally put out a good product. All hopes are not lost. I’m impressed!!
Us too!
@@MunroLive Will be interesting to see how much you think it cost to make. Are these impressive things cost effective, or an expensive attempt to keep up with tesla?
@@Scholzey
For the last "X" years, Sandy had been saying "use castings instead of welding".
Maybe someone DID listen?
@@Scholzey These parts are cost-effective. It's battery cost where Tesla will eat everyone's lunch.
Need to fix software issues.
I don't know diddly squat about vehicle engineering but I get all excited when Sandy gets all excited about this stuff! :D
Listen to sandy and you will win as an automobile company... plain and simple.
Great Point.
True, but it's not only that. We can all learn the core concepts of his logic and apply to our fields of work or pretty much anywhere in life.
These are simple truths:
1) always look into the essence of things, don't dwell too much into the details without knowing the real purpose of what it's all about;
2) Always consider cost vs benefit;
3) Don't half-ass things, always go for the best result possible, don't be lazy;
4) Love what you're doing.
Thanks KaziusG.
@@MunroLive I'd like to suggest that you try not to abbreviate during the videos, I'm sure you have lots of non engineers watching who may not know what PM or SPR are
@@mjcamp01 PM is "post meridiem" (after noon), and SPR is "special purpose rifle" (typically an 18" AR15 designed for DMR use. -(designated marksman rifle). see, its quite simple
"Let's take a look at another little doodad that is kind of impressive" I almost spit out my coffee!!!
Sandy's comments on VW's lower control arm/strut front suspension "Not so good, found on cheaper cars". Sandy's comments on Ford's same set up "Not dramatic, but really well done"
Mach-E shaping up to be a potential legitimate competitor to Tesla! FINALLY! THIS IS GOOD FOR ALL INVOLVED, INCLUDING TESLA!!!
Agreed, it was telling that team Edison was run a lot like a startup from the beginning. They did not answer to the normal mucky mucks in fomoco. Reading about team Edison really shows how they got the mach e to where they did vs where Ford was on evs.
Also Ford leased tesla model 3s for all the engineer's to benchmark the mach e against. Since the model y wasn't yet available. 🤔
Unfortunately Motors are not built by Ford.. So don't hold your breath just yet
@@teslascoop2177 indeed, haha built by Bosch along with the inverters, incidently bosch just commited to further investment in ice tech for another 20+year's. 😂
Well designed, better built than Tesla’s with better, nearer service. Should be a hit.
@@excelrobot quite incorrectly to. I'm a former multiple Ford owner. And can say very few local dealers have anyone who knows anything about bevs. And trying to find a dealership who actually has more than one bev certified tech on duty? When currently barely over half of all Ford dealers even are certified to service their own electric vehicle's? Good luck with that!
I'm not surprised, and pleasantly pleased with Sandy's finding. You could tell Ford was greatly inspired by Tesla to make this car. I'm glad to see some creative fresh thinking design from Ford , and learn it's more than a marketing effort..
Thanks Sandy
Congratulations Ford
Couldn't agree more!
They did a great job, but calling it a Mustang really set it into a world where it could never succeed; absolutely set it up for failure. If it was simply called the "Mach-E" and not mustang, so many more people would be taking it seriously; but instead now its known as the "Mocked-E'
Uhm nope ford was not inspired by tesla, castings have existed in cars for decades now, maybe sandy should teardown a mercedes sclass or audi A8...
@@calholli is that why you can’t find one in stock and have to wait 6 months to get one if you order today?
@@samesch85 No... that's because they only build 12 of them per week.
"im gonna talk to the rear-end, and im real excited about that" - gotta love Sandy's dirty talk
lol
But with no tailpipe it can't be dirty talk!
Somebody got his Birthday Present :-) Never saw Sandy that happy and excited! So Ford build a really good electric car, who would have thought that?!
I love watching Sandy geek out!
Thanks!
You gotta love an engineer who is passionate about engineering.
I just love watching Sandy talk and shoot straight from the hip! I hope today's business leaders are listening, learning and getting away from farming out the work to the lowest bidder!!! My father was a Sears repairman in the 50's - 70's and everything then was built to last. Today the fancy expensive plastic laundry machines would break if my walker bumped into it. We need to hear from more people like him who can help design things made to last!!!
I've not seen Mr Munro as excited for a while, glad he is looking forward to drive and teardown
This is the first time after a while I see Sandy so excited
Sandy’s excitement can’t be replicated. This man is doing exactly what he should be doing. I love it.
Great job Mach E team!
Why the simple McPherson type of front suspension is good idea in Mustang Mach-E but in ID.4 evaluation it wasn't??
Because Ford managed to come up with something that isn't a live axle.
So the Mustang is looking better-engineered than the ID4 so far. THAT is a surprise for me. Thanks, Sandy! These are great insights.
Why Sandy is really happy.
6:00 - Beer holder in the castings.
It's gonna become a meme, isn't it? xD
I love internet
Well this does it. Cancelled my ID4 reservation. Will buy a Mach-E and a Tesla Model Y, selling my two gas cars.
I bet that Ford management wasn’t paying much attention to this “unimportant” EV project so the designers and engineers were finally able to do something more innovative by Fords standards
Lookup team Edison for fun. They ran it like a startup totally separate from the usual higher ups reporting only to Darren Palmer.
They also leased tesla model 3s for the engineer's to benchmark the mach e against. 🤔
@@4literv6 Looks like that paid off for Ford! Hooray!
Probably would have paid more attention if they expected to have to to make them in high volumes. As is I bet this is seen as a sideline for PR purposes and heavily subsidised by other vehicle sales and the tax rebate.
And now all the execs are seeing positive reviews and they'll have to do it this way from now on. On every line.
This type of excitement is what keeps Sandy young!
You have to either use the correct settings on your camera or get better lighting. Sandy putting a handheld torch right next to something, completely blowing out the contrast and making it impossible to see what he is talking about aint working.
Commenting for the algorithm. It’s great to see Ford thinking outside of their typical box on this one. Keep it up!
Thank you Sandy for making these videos. You’re enlightening the masses.
More to come!
It’s amazing how much design goes into being crash worthy. It’s something you never even think of
"I'm so impressed...we may buy this...and tear it apart...."
LOL
I am impressed with the undercarriage of this car. I have owned several Ford products, but never seen this kind use of aluminum and castings and extrusions. I think Ford went all out on this one to make a statement about design and quality construction, in brakes and suspension and crash safety, on their first real electric platform.
@@Tegneaufreak no it’s not. That’s a future product that’s using MEB. GOOGLE IT.
I’m just surprised Sandy is not complaining about how expensive aluminum is compared to stamped steel…
It didn’t look at all like the ID4 undercarriage when Sandy had that one on the lift a few weeks ago. Not sure why you got that impression.
@@eddiegardner8232 Yeah, I have no clue what @San is talking about. There are some similarities with overall suspension design, but obviously a lot is different. I did find it odd that Sandy seemed to criticize the ID.4 for using McPherson struts which Sandy said was “not a BMW quality suspension” [like the Tesla] because it used struts instead of double wishbone. I found the BMW quality part to be funny because the best handling BMWs including the 2-series, 3-series, 4-series as well as the X3, M3/M4, Z4, i3, i4, etc. all use front struts. Only 5-series and up sized BMWs use double wishbones up front. Struts are cheaper to fix and have fewer parts. For a car like an ID.4, struts are perfectly fine.
I do think Sandy has a soft spot for the Mach-E because he’s from Detroit, he worked for Ford, and it wouldn’t surprise me if he personally knows people that worked on designing this product. He had a lot of critical things to say about ID.4 even claiming some of the lower control arms on the rear were shaped like they were because mistakes had been made, almost implying they had to retrofit some forgotten component.
I just watched a ride along on the GT version of the MachE. It uses magnetorheological shock absorbers, of the type developed at GM to provide millisecond speed changes in damper rates. Supposedly starting at around $60K MSRP, with comparable acceleration to the Model Y performance. I will definitely be checking one of those out when they are released for production in the Fall.
Love this excitement because it shows that he doesn't just hold to being excited about Tesla.. Glad to see ford making forward thinking changes. Just wish they could apply more to software as well.
Happy Sandy means a good car.
I'm glad Ford have done a proper job!
@@Tegneaufreak made by VW perfected by Ford it appears.
Not something I'd expect to be writing ever.
“I’m gonna talk to the rear end of the car”
That sounds like an interesting conversation 😏
Those crash features are outstanding. Protects the motors and battery pack from anything but an absolute total.
What exactly does a “Ford” suspension look like? I still see a strut like the VW used, not a double wishbone like the Tesla. I’m also surprised that the extensive use of aluminum isn’t being lambasted as too expensive vs. stamped steel. It is interesting that they chose to base their new GE1 platform on the existing C2 platform which underpins everything from the Focus to the Bronco Sport to the Escape, as opposed to doing a true 100% ground up EV platform.
It's the transition to full electrics that's the goal. If Ford can get someone to move up from a Mustang GT Premium (50K) into the AWD Premium Mach-E (56K), then it's a win.
These videos are so great to watch while eating :D
Nice to see ford having some decent engineers and designers step in and make it happen. Glad to see they took this ev this serious.
The honest to goodness fact that makes these videos so great is that Sandy is an engineer through and through, and his excitement over good engineering is palpable. Love this video!
Thank you!
I appreciate your videos Sandy and I would suggest that you turn down the flashlight and/or start using a wide laser pointer to direct attention, to improve the quality of your presentations.
It seems like this wasn't designed by the old guards and more-so by new blood. This is a fantastic sign.
Or it was designed by the old guard but ("new" guard) management allowed it, as Sandy alluded to. ;-)
Congratulations Ford! It's about time!
Sandy the toolmaker gets excited about nice tool steel molds 😎
I’m shocked that Sandy is this excited about a Ford. I can’t believe they out-engineered VW. Couldn’t be happier for the company.
Well has Sandy looked at the Taycan or other higher end models. I wouldn’t jump to conclusions based on one model
@@GA-wq8xq Does Taycan even have a coax drivetrain?
I love watching Sandy geek out over this kind of stuff! Thank you for the education. I appreciate you not only pointing out the what, but the why as well.
You are so welcome!
That smooth bottom tray is beautiful. This was a feature that was once only available on sports cars and race cars. Now considered standard because of the battery cell shape. Slips thru the air now. Very nice.
i never thought id have as much joy as I do hearing sandy shit on the ID.4
8:35 Can't wait to hear what the rear end has to say.
Many people gets excited about the rear end.
Another interesting video. 🙏 thanks.
Thanks for watching!
I hope American auto engineering rebirths its self. I do not accept that we have to continue to look up to foreign auto makers. I’m 63 and the Tesla is the first American car I’ve bought. This video is great news for Ford, it seems like they may be serious about their business. Hooray!
Great to see you excited about a new ev. Buy the one with the most tech in it. I’m looking forward to seeing it.
Great Sandy, that was another great video, these are the best when you find good engineering... its good to see the complaints to the unsung engineer heroes when they get things right... few give them a thought or discount them when things are done well..mostly they only get to take the criticism when they get things wrong!!!
Pretty impressive. Thanks Sandy! Please tear this one down! Follow the innovation.
We plan to!
I like the use of MacPherson struts in the front; low initial cost, reasonable geometry, and low cost of repair. Most owners won't know the difference between struts and an upper and lower control arm setup. They're not going to drive it like a race car around corners.
Sandy, this content is why I come here.
Subscribe so you don't miss anything! ;)
As Sandy is excited, I'm looking forward to the next video! By the sound of it this is shaping up to be a good challenger to the Model Y.
Thank you Sandy. Having just bought a Mustang Mach-e, I'll pleased to know you are finding superior engineering on the underside.
i-pace, Bolt and e-tron has coaxial, e-tron front only, i-pace both front and rear
Wow, the MachE going 3/3 so far under Sandy's microscope. Ford has to be ecstatic about this!
Music to my ears. Well articulated mate!
Sandy doesn't pull any punches. He tells it like it is, and YES he is EXCITED because he is witnessing an innovative technology! Pay attention VW, GM, Mercedes, and others, you might actually learn something!
liked this car since it was announced, great to know it also appears to be designed well!
Aluminium casted control arms are used to reduce weight IF vehicle is heavy - BMW does that all the time on premium series.
As of May 2021 only about 26,000 Mach Es have arrived at dealerships and customers from its assembly plant in Mexico. Best of luck, Ford.
kive it when Sandy gets excited over good engineering.
Great walkthrough and sounds like the car well build. What I am curious about though is that a lot of reviewers and buyers are complaining about the harsh and bouncy ride of the Mach-E. Now, granted this is a heavy SUV so some compromises are to be excepted, but for example the Id.4 that Sandy thought was poorly build and had a cheap suspension has a much better ride experience.
Now we are talking! 👍😃
Great video. Sandy makes me want to buy a ford .... nah, suffered enough, but would like to see ford succeed. Fun to see sandy surprised and excited about engineering taking over accountants
Tbh, I wasn’t considering the Mach e - was looking forward to the Ioniq 5. But after this video, Im going to test drive a Mach e.
now if only I could afford this...probably the first and only crossover I would consider buying
Sandy. Thanks for your videos. I love the nerdiness :). Idea for future videos, you can show and discuss evolution of various components of cars from older time to newer times. Why things were changed and why it is better. :)
God I love these videos. Now considering the MachE after my Model 3 in a few years.
Thanks Joe.
Re-evaluate in a few years. Both companies will continue to improve/evolve
@@Matzes Regardless, it's great to see Ford put in a serious EV contender! I'm honestly surprised they did though. 😅
A lot of thought went into this vehicle and fresh thinking.
@@VoxelLoop sure thing. I would also like to know if and how much money they make on 1 EV sale
@@Matzes Even with the cost savings, I imagine Tesla will be making more. Tesla has ramped up their cell production really well and is seeing the benefits of that in cost per KW. 🙂
Sandy gets excited about looking at a rear end. Don't we all!
That is one excited Sandy Munro.
Wow, Ford let the engineers design the new platform without having the accountants looking over their shoulders and vetoing everything new! Hooray! Clean sheet engineering leads to big advances in capability, crashworthiness, NVH, ease of assembly and on and on with a new EV targeted vehicle design. Congratulations Ford! Excited to see Munro's teardown of the new Mustang Mach E show us some of the secrets of what's looking to be an excellent design.
I wonder if Ford made the whole battery pack or if LG did that along with making the battery cells. I also wonder who is supplying Ford the more advanced suspension and frame parts, doubting they are doing it themselves at this early stage in their EV program. They seem to be on the right track, though, which is a little encouraging.
That's right, Sandi is really excited to talk about the rear end 😂
So advanced, so many different inventions compared to the iD4 yet when I test drove the Mach-E back to back with the iD4, the iD4 felt that tad bit more composed, comfortable, softer yet stiffer around the bends.
It might look good underneath but Ford could most definitely put down more time dialing it in.
A good rear end is always exciting!
Especially with concentric drive!
I'd still rather have a Tesla but some healthy competition will help with EV adoption, good job Ford! Hopefully you guys can get one to tear down as I'd love to know how the Mach-E compares to the Model Y on production cost and if Ford is making any profit on them?
Ford has stated they are making profit on every sale. It’s not something they would lie about. Misleading shareholders is a big no no.
Good to hear & nice insights.
If I may put my two cents in, the frame sub-frame (Al casting 5:49) construction is quite similar to the one in the Chevrolet Bolt EV to my eyes. Even the way they added the extension arms & overall layout all are reminiscent of Bolt EV.
Front suspension looks basically like an old BMW E46 front axle! Using high compliance bushes in the back of the lower arms to control the longitudinal wheel path, and a small stiff bush to react the pure lateral loads from the tyre. ie kinematics for both Ride quality, and handling. However, BMW themselves moved away from this arrangement, to a dual lower arm arrangement after the E46 in order to incude a virtual steering point to better optimise steering feel and feedback, which is difficult to do on strut type arrangements with their necessarily offset tyre centre points.!
Awesome job Ford! Can’t wait to see the cost breakdown.
Wow, love it when Sandy is excited about engineering! :)
"This doesn't look like a Ford underneath"... I suspected that all along when they made the "Mustang" into a 4 door sedan. It felt like they were taking someone else's skateboard and branding it a Mustang.
I was gonna leave the same comment here. Then saw yours.
Curious if Sandy comes up with who did the engineering? If not Ford, who?
@@motofunk1
Maybe Ford Germany?
@@rogerstarkey5390 Good point.
There are engineering firms that can design car for OEM.
That could be the case here
Love the excitement. And (sadly) good to know others like me, with amazing ideas get shot down too by ppl who don’t like change...
The excitement makes me chuckle:)
As a former body structures engineer, I was geeking out with you Sandy. The hybrid cradle is nuts and looks to both enable motor drop and reducing high frequency motor NVH
edit:
"Furthermore, random noise and low-frequency firing orders are contrasted against tonal motor harmonics in the mid- and high frequency ranges. "
cdn.ymaws.com/www.saimeche.org.za/resource/collection/BDB66635-3CA0-42B7-8354-83943412755B/2014_07_Bekker_-_FINAL,_2014,_30,_47-54.pdf
So EV is quieter than ICE, but because it's quieter the high frequency motor harmonics are more noticeable when you're at the RPM to excite them.
I'd imagine any automotive electric motor to be quite quiet and smooth though..
@@rkan2 Mostly, but they still do have some problems. They have a common problem with stirring up vibroacoustics in the 3,000+ Hz range. I can find some references if you're interested
@@TennisGvy plz do
@@Dimitri88888888 "Furthermore, random noise and low-frequency firing orders are contrasted against tonal motor harmonics in the mid- and high frequency ranges. "
cdn.ymaws.com/www.saimeche.org.za/resource/collection/BDB66635-3CA0-42B7-8354-83943412755B/2014_07_Bekker_-_FINAL,_2014,_30,_47-54.pdf
So EV is quieter than ICE, but because it's quieter the high frequency motor harmonics are more noticeable when you're at the RPM to excite them.
@@TennisGvy please do, for sure, it sounds interesting... it's the EV aspect we never really hear about in detail, from anybody
Wow I kind of wish I test drove but I'm happy with the Model Y
You have the best option atm in the class. The mach e is solidly in 2nd place atm though.
But the upcoming ioniq 5, id.4 gtx, nissan ariya, Kia ev6, genesis gv60e, fisker ocean, Audi q4 etron, Cadillac lyriq.
Those will all really push the segment forward imo.
By mid to late next year there should be good availability on 5-8+more electric cuvs in the 40-60k price range.
Can't wait to see what all that competition does for pricing point's speaking as a consumer. 😁
@@4literv6 I think I enjoy the tech too much anyways
When you open the video and the first 2 frames is sandy with a big smile... you're in for something good :D
As a german engineer i totally agree with Mr. Munro. (But i am not involved in cars..)
Nice review Sandy! We already own a Model Y and we were thinking about adding a Mach-E as a second vehicle.
Good idea, so when the Y is out of service due to issues you will have a reliable car to use.
@@GA-wq8xq Very funny lol actually we've owned the Y since May 2020 and no issues.
@@jasonmandela8028 glad your 11 month old vehicle had no issues! Hope you check body panel alignment and paint. Hopefully your glass sunroof didn’t fall if like some owners experienced
@@GA-wq8xq what are you talking about? lol Are you shorting the stock or can't afford a Tesla and you are mad? lol
@@jasonmandela8028 I can afford a $40k model 3, so don’t worry about me. Search on the internet, there are documented cases of the sunroof not be affixed correctly and coming off while driving. That doesn’t happen with companies that know how to make cars. Check out some of Sandys earlier videos on the poor quality of Tesla build.
By the way I don’t short or long Tesla stock
From what I've seen and heard, this is a nice car. Curious to know how much it costs Ford to make.
@@Tegneaufreak Nah. Ford deal with VW was after this project finished so nope. And also VW made it worse, so why VW would make it better for another brand? That doesn't make any sense.
@@Tegneaufreak they 100% do not buy it from VW
Glad to see ford got the memo and brought their A game!
Jeah I think that they still have some new and old cracker jack engineers, but you have to hand pick them...
Excited about MacPherson strut suspension? El cheapo suspension used in cheap cars. Double wishbone would have been something to get excited about.
I'm pleasantly surprised at all your compliments of Ford's engineering.
Great news if a legacy US car company can compete in the EV world.
The kicker is awesome. Hit the car hard enough and it breaks into a pile of perfectly reusable parts.🤣😂
Just raised my Ford viability rating to flourish, I was so impressed with the model T engineering and design and now the Mach E, looks like Ford are doing it again, good on you I hope Ford has found its MoJo, its how its done without going cap in hand to the government for bail outs, respect to Ford.
After Sandy completes praising the rear-end, let’s calculate the value of his advertising. I’ll bet it’s worth over $100K ! Ford would save money giving Sandy a free Mach e vs. running expensive and wasteful TV ads. Sandy has much more credibility than advertising.
Quick means torque, trains have been using electric motors for many decades, we’re just now getting to experience electric torque, thanks for the good info Sandy keep it coming.
I am glad Ford decided to do something special