1963: HOW LOCAL IS YOUR LOCAL? | Tonight | Voice of the People | BBC Archive
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- Опубликовано: 5 июл 2024
- As areas of Salford were being flattened for new development, Julian Pettifer went to look at some of the few remaining buildings which were left standing. While their days may also have been numbered, the pubs of Hanky Park were still being frequented by loyal, longstanding customers, some of whom travelled miles to carry on drinking at their 'local'.
Clip taken from Tonight, originally broadcast on BBC One, Tuesday 30 April, 1963.
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The pubs were a way back to the past for these men, to what was left of everything they had ever known and they travelled miles to get there, just to find somewhere they felt they belonged. Now they would be gone too. Quite a moving film really.
Those brand new tower blocks were pulled down in 2014.
I wish life was this simple today.
It's almost as if town planners never learn from their predecessors' mistakes.
No, they have learned. Thats why they do it.
No mistake - they just don't give a monkey's
The Pub was the hub of the community.
Wow Julian Pettifer is 89 in a couple of weeks
I used to watch him on TV back in the early 70’s
Great Journalist
🏴🏴🏴❤️❤️👍 👍
When a pub closes few spare a thought to the local community. Friends lose contact, pub teams are lost and a way of life dies. Most people had a sense of loyalty and pride to their regular pub as can be seen here. As someone whos seen three old regular pubs close I can feel for these peoples loss.
Surprised by how Lancastrian their accents are, amazing how much the Mancunian accent has spread
Me too. They sound like my 73 year old dad.
The accent here is Manchester/Salford, it's not the Lancashire accent of Bolton, Rochdale, Oldham, Bury and other towns in the area. Salford borders Manchester (the dividing line is the River Irwell). Manchester and Salford have always had a completely different accent to the surrounding areas and continue to do so, I'm from Newton Heath, North East Manchester and have lived in area nearly all of my lfe, I'd say the first landlord'a accent is typical of the area.
Community and a common culture were valued and recognised back then. They know where they feel they belong. This video is a gem. We could all learn from it. Nowadays easy to dismiss these men as close minded and lacking the ability to adapt. In reality they know where they are safer and valued, amongst their own kind from their locale, from their background and from their status.
But when other people do this it's a problem 🤔
They probably were a lot happier and lives had more meaning too! Compared to now where 'anything is possible' and we are told we can be and do anything we want if we work for it (not true)
The area of Hanky Park was demolished in the 1960s and replaced by high-rise flats. Sadly, only a few of the old buildings were saved.
Wetherspoons is a local with its soul kicked out.
"Distinguished and elegant" is not quite how I would describe the 60's obsession with decimating communities and historic architecture and replacing it all with isolating brutalist concrete monoliths.
What an ominous ending, seeing these 'distinguished and elegant' high rises and knowing just how well they are going to work out for their residents. The music at the end makes me think of the end of Blackadder goes forth.
The biggest problem, as it strikes me, is that the midcentury style of planning was overly-focused on what the project looks like when viewed from the sky. For people in planes to think "that looks nice" as they go on their holiday. There was no real emphasis on what it was like down on the ground, with poor sightlines and an unfriendly scale.
@@kaitlyn__L Plus absolutely no consideration given to continuity of community. These planner just thought they could split up centuries old communities and then move people who have never met together and it would all work out. Stalin would have been proud of them.
I miss vox pops, journalism just isn't the same anymore....where is the HEART like in this piece? :)
They want to hang out with their old friends. That's why they come back
I like these hardworking people. Such time-beaten characters, boys and girls of WW2... Yes they're very simpleminded and rude sometimes, but they are Real, unlike today's...
It's so interesting to compare people, how they look, what they like, what they dream about etc, from different countries but from the same timeline when all of them were born...
Thank You!
why did they demolish a whole suburb
edit: oh god 7:37
Squaller
In Britain we love to destroy our own culture 😢
not as much as you like destorying other's cultures
@@TheWeepingDalek zinger!
@@TheWeepingDalek do elaborate please
@@eskimo4130 there's various of cultures of old that no longer exist because of the British empire
SO sad..... our past...our history being killed....for what...????? Greedy property developers who's NEVER ever lived in a old decent community in there lives....
What has parts of London been left with...Glass office blocks... CRIMINAL!!!!!
Are those tower blocks still there??! Those scenes of desolation with massive empty spaces in between the isolated pubs … shocking how the housing council moved against the will of the people.
7.35 more distinguished and elegant he narrates. I bet Mr Pettifer never moved into a concrete high-rise flat.
You need to use a colon for a time stamp mate 7:35 Hope that helps.
Now in the Cotswolds it all middle class metropolitans. Bar a few of us
Worst days work ever done for Walkden and Little Hulton , poor folk mustve wondered what hit them, and probably still do.
Missed opportunity. They should have kept a part of the history
The 60s was the antithesis of conservation, preservation and heritage
1963: HOW LOCAL IS YOUR LOCAL? | Tonight | Voice of the People | BBC Archive 1353pm 6.7.24 did you watch this thinking: there's a familiar face....? one of 'em looked like a realyion from coronation street, another looked like some neighbour of my mothers...another an old relation... jeeez.... people dont wander far, do they? salford and burnley are desperatly different. i seem to be of the former mindset wihtout the attendant scally aspect...
Half a crown. Another 2 pints! A big reason the new high rises - and many new housing estates - failed was the merest lip service given to replacing or even moving community centres like the good old pub. The edge of estate megapub was never quite the same.
You’ve got to love planners (🤔)
Instead of improving what was there, they chose to evict everybody, raze the lot and build new, making sure that all community spirit was destroyed at the same time.
It’s as deliberately destructive as the highland clearances or the pogroms in 1930s Europe.
I presume the planners meant well but the outcome was cruel and brutal irrespective of their intentions.
Planners very seldom mean well. As long as they get paid, they don't really care. Most of them don't even live in the locality of their destruction, and have no local knowledge whatsoever. Where I live, a load of expensive flats were built next to a river, despite the fact that the river ran in a channel higher than the level of the first floor and garage levels. I expect you can see where this is going, can't you. A storm in the winter of 2013 meant that people woke up to find they couldn't leave their new homes, as the ground floor was under 6-7 feet of filthy water.
Exactly. Why not make improvements to the area instead of destroying the lot and displacing a whole community. It must be profit motivated to do this. It's so wrong.
@@brianartillery They should be held accountable for their dumb decisons.
The pub was often the last place standing in "slum" clearances. 20 or 30 years later the planner's dream would be reduced to rubble
Real lads !! WTF happened to us
That generation were amazing. I do wonder, I really do.
Not allowed to be like that anymore not allowed to share an opinion or have a different point of view unless it fit's with the absolute extremists and crazies of today.
That landscape is just extraordinary.
Only to be pulled down again, waste of effort
Probably because of the shoddy work from all the drunk builders.
@@Coolcarting think it became a modern slum lack of community adhesion between the disparate groups dumped there
Amazing video! Thanks for sharing this look into the past
Tragic to watch the government destroy these historic pubs and a community like this. A sense of community for everyone is so important and I think this demonstrates how little the government care about the taxpayer, hard workers etc. Those men were all funding the developers and didn't want it. It's wrong.
the reason the pubs were kept open was they had to continue trading untill the license was transferd to a new pub in one of the over-spill estates on the same day. my gran lived on ARCHIE ST & was shifted out to Gamsley. If this was,nt done the lisece was void & ended.
Mine - the only one left of three pubs local to me, is a ten minute walk away. Of the other two, one is a charity shop, and the other was demolished and the site used for houses. You would never know that a pub had ever been there.☹️☹️☹️
1963: HOW LOCAL IS YOUR LOCAL? | Tonight | Voice of the People | BBC Archive i know the feeling, though...... you get settled and yer have a local. same fces, no mither or hassles. without being condescendign the words; it's a shame spring to mind. smae thing's happenign again. as they graduallt pohase out the pub as was. no need to close half of 'em. just a-holes and their realty plots shfting folk on. on the bus i used to gawp out the widnow and think: if the guy at the swan (off rochdale road) could see his way to sticking it out (as manchester undergoes a bit of gentrification then he'd make a packet, i thought)... this was about 25 year ago, though. wonder if he did. or she did - stick it out, i mean? - might have been a landlady's concern.... good luck to 'em. as for a chap being lost without his local - very true!! very true!!!
"Replaced by something all together more distinguished and elegant".
😅 yeah right the architects who designed the flats wouldn't have dreamed of living there themselves.
"10 final stubborn obstacles".
live on the streets then
Have a look on a map and you can still find streets and streets of terraced house, some old, some new(ish).
I’m from the north but moved to SE London 40 years ago. The other day I counted up at that time there were 14 pubs in the wider area we might have gone in (though some only occasionally) and 11 have now gone for ever.
☹
Similar happened to the area in Leeds where i used to leave. Cross Green up until the late 90s had around 12 or 13 pubs, now even with a bigger population and regeneration in the area there are no pubs at all.
You have to go into leeds centre for a pint. It's really disappointing but I have moved out of inner city Leeds to garforth on the outskirts. Luckily I still have 2 local pubs within 5 minutes walking distance and 7 throughout the town.
@@kylereed9309 because people realised wasting money on what is essentially poison is dumb and stupid.
@@TheWeepingDalek and I've just realised your small, insignificant and the whole world doesn't share the same thoughts as you but thanks for the opinion anyway.
@@kylereed9309 then why are so many pubs closing. Why are the younger generations moving away from drinking
The original "Rovers Return". 🏴🇬🇧 😃😂
If you want to enjoy the atmosphere of the pubs in this film, come along to the King’s Arms, Ravenstone (children in the lounge only, please)
This is a local shop for local people … if you know, you know 😊
Back then 40quid a week was a good wage for a family of 4 or more to live on.
what a brilliant vid what a vid
I didn't know Julian Petifer was working as a news journalist back in those days. I remember his series, The Living Isles, from 1987. I taped every single one of them. Edit: Did they have radio mics back then? as Julian's mic doesn't seem to be connected to anything. Or would this have been dubbed back in the studio?
Microphone connected to a portable tape recorder under the coat and edited back at the studio?
Just Googled him. 88 years old. Face from TV past.
1963: HOW LOCAL IS YOUR LOCAL? | Tonight | Voice of the People | BBC Archive good lad, julian. i was thinking, writign as a photographer, that i wil need to get me a gudeio who knws salford liek th eback of his hand to show me what has now become of all those old walkways and roads.. all the old aspects of salford... how amazingly hip it now is.... compare and contrast, y'see..... june bown probably studied old salford...
@@kevinmothers904 It would need to be a recorder that synced with the camera. I had one, it was a NAGRA and it was bloody heavy, and bulky. It was a reel to reel machine but it had a crystal sync with my Arriflex camera.
08;53 before the house falls theres a fique that leaves the building. looks like a spirit shadow
I wasn't even born when this was filmed so I haven't got a clue as to what this is all about. Why are there only pubs left standing alone in a wasteland? Was the area being cleared and developed because of war damage? So why leave the pubs? A vid that makes me want to know more is always a good thing.
Me also but im sure its just the council being slow or landlords earning some quick cash before they pulled down.
anyone spot the tiny geez at 3.55
Nothing has changed - we still have leaders and experts who talk a good game, yet are buffoons
😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮 work the curse of the drinking class😅😅😅😅
everyone in this video was only 23 years of age
Heartbreaking. A war on our culture.
Does anyone know what is there now and are there any photos of the place now?
ruclips.net/video/twnPosztKys/видео.htmlsi=33WpCuvhjbmH-m83
Have a Google for Salford Precinct. That's the exact area.
@@SirFlashman-zv7ueAnd what a resounding success that's been!
Some people just want to make other people feel misarable. Vampires...
Does anybody recognize the song at 7:04?
Money not for the people living there is the only reason
None of those people would recognise Salford now. The planners have ruined it.
They are all probably dead now.😢😢😢
Hanky Panky?
And most of those 60s blocks have been demolished…what a waste of a once tight knit community
Everybody looked so old in those days.
'So old ' you mean not looking chavvy and having pink and blue hair which seems to be the fashion in this 'enlightened' age? 🙄
@@UXB-p5u No, I mean 28 year olds who look 45. The same phenomenon can be observed when looking at English footballers from the 1930s and 1940s
@@beckyzwhite You can see the same phenomenon now as millennials get older but still wear clothes and hairstyles that went out of fashion in the 2010s and 00s. Same as gen-X actually who still dress and wear 90s and 00s fashion. The 30 year old people in this video dress and talk and carry themselves like what we would associate with old people in their 70s and 80s now, unsurprisingly, because this generation are now in their 70s and 80s. It's not helped by the awful diet, poor healthcare and hard manual work that cause physical aging. This crowd in the pub looks physically much fitter and well-postured than today's male population though in spite of all that
LOVELY PEOPLE< JUST LIKE THE OLD DAYS< WATCHING FROM CALIFORNIA< BLESSINGS LIVERPOOL BANK ROBBER TO Hollywood Butler AMEN
I just get smashed at home after work, saves me from having to be around other unpleasant people.
"other unpleasant people" 😂
And you can have a snout at home
Sounds like a difficult life you have if you want to escape it by getting smashed. ❤
1963: HOW LOCAL IS YOUR LOCAL? | Tonight | Voice of the People | BBC Archive 1338pm 6.7.24 love on the dole? there's no love on it. i should know. d'you think i could try love on the sick? they're on a good screw, the sick and defunkt. when i saw the solitary pubs i was thinking: 'kin hell.............. how so? . i was looking at the new, revivified salford and, as i say, when they change the landscapes peoples' memories are scuppered - especially the elderly's etc etc.... crazy revamp of city scapes is not to be sniffed at or takenon lightly. and again, when all these flat pack kultur flats sprang up i said give it 15 years and they'll all be filthy and in need of rendrign. whcih they are... they might revert to bricklaying and actual bricks as a material to utilize (in 20 years ro so) .... briclaying seems to be slowly on the wane in favour of cladding - refer to the area round strangeways... it's all faux red brick cladding. looks crap. father wil be turning in his cement mixer...
Sounds like Matt Berry 😅
Weird because I'm told England was always diverse....
Things were very segregated
Loads of these people will be descended from Irish immigrants and Flemish Weavers, which is actually the name of a pub in Salford.
@@stuartsaint4581That's a good alibi to open the gates to Africa and the middle east
@@TopCatsBackAll our ancestors are from Africa and the Middle East, including yours. Best to stop blaming immigrants for your problems, because you will look like you haven't bothered to learn anything, and are just cranky.
@@thestarshavefallen There was no Jim Crow in Britain. There were almost no blacks in Britain in WWII, there were more Indians
What happened to those people..How many of them are alive who knows.Maybe none of them is still alive..
Eyyy ooop just saw r'kelly up t'road...
Did he believe that he could fly??
No money but always down the pub.
Why are assuming they had no money? It's all relative anyway.beer was cheap, rents were low, and a family could survive on a single wage. The consumer age wasn't yet in full swing, so there wasn't that much to spend your money on anyway.
@@zivkovicable At the start, there is mention of poor families, mass unemployment in the area and no benefits.
Compare that today, on benefits but can still smoke, get tattooed, keep a pit bull etc... I know whose company I'd rather keep.
@@daveworthing2294 Mass unemployment doesn't mean everyone was unemployed. Unemployment in the early 1980's was much worse.
@@MrSimonmcc The only way you can do all that on benefits is if you've also got an illegal side hustle or committing serious benefit fraud.. Not all pit bull owners are drug dealers...but...
Also there is the category of claimants who are in full time work. Maybe firms should be forced to pay workers enough to live on, so the tax payer doesn't have to subsidise their payroll.
All these old pubs were once new. Time changes everything, such is life.
They kept the local brothel standing so that locals could also still enjoy some Hanky Panky.
Don’t give up your day job
Your mother was some girl back then
How did it even go to court ? what about the judicial process ? does she not have any anger or resentment about how it was handled by judicial system,where was the evidence other than just one little girls report of "touching her bottom",I don't in any way wish to minimise or invalidate when any child comes forward and that thorough investigation should happen but surely before it goes to court there should be more evidence !!!
it's ok everyone - community is not important - never was - keep moving to new places every few years - you're doing it right - the old ways are dead in the coffin arent they - youre not missing anything being part of an old style community - they didnt have what we have - now we're all connected with social media - this is actually really offensive the way they are trying to shame us showing the old ways - we've learned all there was to learn from back then #progress
Undrinkable Beer.
At least one of those pubs was a Tetley's pub, and Tetley's in a traditional old pub with a deep cellar and served through a hand pump was quite possibly the most drinkable beer ever brewed. Wilsons, Chesters, Groves and Whitnalls, well I don't know but I'm sure they were decent or nobody would have drunk them. These old guys knew their beer, and I'm quite sure the beer in the new estate pubs where they were expected to go was a piss poor substitute.
@@christopherpickles7541 I can drink beer worldwide except in England. After one pint I have to puke.
@@plasticbucketEnglish ale is the best beer of all, wet wipe
All those people are probably dead now. Makes you think
What that we all die? Yep, worked that one out when I was 4.
Love this. And the disgrace that is conservatives, you do not know what real honest genuine people are.
The good old days my arse, looks like a terrible time to have lived
Salford is still a shithole nowadays too, I think it's probably worse.
Life was bloody awful in the good old days