"The war has caused the Kaled race to mutate, but within this casing we can evolve, we can start anew. We can become stronger than ever! My ultimate masterpiece of design!" Thanks for watching, folks! Be sure to leave a comment and "like" the video to appease the almighty RUclips algorithm! And don't forget that my Hartnell-era review marathon is available to Patrons NOW! It should be available on RUclips next week.
My main takeaways: - I now desperately want more Julian Bleach like this. He was so, so good. - I didn’t realise Davros had facial scarring - I just thought he was really wrinkly. - The plunger may just mean the Tardis has drainage!
But where does it go Does it just leak out of the bottom of the box We know that the communicator is connected to the phone at least during the eleventh and twelve the doctor's era And the interstellar antenna is connected up to the lantern which allows the doctor to send pulses to Make it rain or in the winter snow And I think thirteen was pulling wires out of the bottom of it I like the idea that Functions of the tardus are hidden in the exterior Like how the master's tardis would be the most accurate clock in the universe And also strike twelve whenever he wakes up from a healing coma Because this was old crispy Wouldn't it be cool if the phone Rang just as the doctor finally over a regeneration phenomena got up
I think that they need to give the new Davros an equally iconic design or else he just looks like some guy. Maybe make him look more Dalek like as if he had been experimenting on himself.
Or just leave Davros as he is... Pleasing everyone is no excuse for white washing history... no pun intended when referring to the white saviour complex
I love this short and know it’s a prequel but if we’re on this topic of disability in media, why doesn’t RTD write a full time companion as someone with a disability that is a constant problem. Okay, there was Ryan but his dyspraxia was made non-existent unless the plot called for its relevance.
I honestly never saw Davros as disabled, I saw him as just a creepy alien cyborg. Plus his chair being the used for the lower half of the Dalek casing adds to the character. It shows that Davros is putting part of himself into his creation. Which I think is consistent with his god complex.
I always assumed it had one. That thing’s got a swimming pool. But it is really funny to think of the Doctor having to stop off somewhere in like 1927 to quickly take a pee and somehow get mixed up in a plot involving Al Jolson and monsters that travel through sound waves in cinemas.
@@Joey15811The Doctor is an alien, and we cannot assume human bodily functions apply. Unless explicitly stated on the show, we simply don't know if the Doctor goes number 1 or 2, or even has an anus or genitals, and no the plunger doesn't prove anything since it could be for a sink or just for the companions. This is a mystery that will remain forever, or at least until we get an episode where the Doctor starts an OneyFans. (Yes we know Time Lords can procreate, but not every species requires genitals to do that)
I think the problem with Davros’ new design (and David not regenerating into Jodie’s clothing) is Russel looking for potential controversies, avoiding them and then calling out the controversy he didn’t do, thus causing the opposite controversy. If they just didn’t address the change (or explain it as a timey-wimey thing), then there wouldn’t be any discourse.
I agree about avoiding controversies and creating new problems. I thought with Jodie, it might have just been easier to have found a reason to get Jodie out of her normal clothes. Have the lazer beam burn them and change her into pyjamas. Have her in a hospital gown being nursed by the cats at New New York when she woke. Unless the regeneration is something like an illusion by the Toy Maker (?) … and the Doctor really looks like 15, but is perceived to look like 14, I can’t see a satisfying man explanation for the clothes change. 🤷♂️
I hear what you are saying about an evil wheelchair bound Davros would not be appropriate within the context of Children In Need. However, there's a much easier fix - just don't do a Davros skit.
Well he doesn't have to be wheelchair bound for anything pre-genesis. It's what RTD said in the interview that's an issue. Without that interview, the skit is fine.
@@90sArchive I 100% agree. This would happily sit before Genesis, before whatever accident crippled Davros. But RTD has now basically said this is Davros now forever. His comments about how villains have often been disabled and/or othered in some ways is totally true.. but the fix isn’t to rewrite history, but to provide much more positive role models.
I think showing that before his accident that Davros was still evil does enough to detach him from the disabled villain stereotype. He isn't evil because of his disability, he is just evil. It fits within the canon as we don't actually know when davros became disfigured, and overall it was fun and for a good cause. In future they have even set the stage for him to return in a similar fashion with the regeneration scene ending the witch's familiar. I say that if they want to make the change, Julian Bleach is a fantastic actor who has proven here that he would be capable of that change.
I mean... technically we did see how he got disfigured in I, Davros that it was before the mark III was finished, however timey wimey eh. It's not the biggest retcon tbh and very understandable.
The Davros choice works for Children in Need, and I can even forgive the canon messing purely due to that. But, I am concerned about the future of Davros, it's one thing going back to before Davros was involved in the accident, it's another thing entirely to erase the disability of a character who's had to live with the struggles that come with that most of his life. That I believe could be a bad message to send to kids who do have to live with a disability for the rest of their lives yknow? We'll see how this develops in the future
They won't erase it. He will most likely recover through sci fi science. They're not decanonising wheelchair davros. Merely retiring it. Moving on from it.
STAR TREK's Captain Christopher Pike before and after being irradiated comes to mind. Anson Mount plays a scene where he becomes aware of his future, the chair he ends up in, that Trekkies saw in Season Two. Pike made a moral and ethical choice. Davros is not the hero, and yes... episodes with him BEFORE, delving into his downward spiral... yes. I am very open to the idea!
Seeing Julian Bleach play Davros without the make-up really demonstrates what a great actor he is. He was so good, I want to see more of this Kaled Davros.
I’m surprised you didn’t address them changing the origin for the Dalek name too. According to Big Finish’s “I Davros: Guilt” episode, the Kaleds led by Davros were guided into war by a battlecry which translated to “and on that day (of victory), men will become as gods." The final word in that phrase in the Kaled’s own language was pronounced Da-Lek. Dalek, is effectively the Kaled word for God and represented the ultimate ambition of the Kaled war machine. That if they could defeat the Thals, their people would become as gods. Likewise, that mutating was not something the Kaleds should fear, it was the next step toward them becoming gods, a big part in the propaganda machine Davros created to get the other Kaleds to go along with his plans. Obviously, this skit was comedic so I don’t mind them making jokes about things but from a purist lens, the Big Finish interpretation for the term Dalek’s origin is much deeper and went a way in contextualising Kaled religion and society so I still prefer that origin overall.
@erosion271 Agreed, and Children In Need/Comic Relief skits aren't even part of the "proper" TV show anyway. If they were, the TARDIS has landed in Albert Square, and Joanna Lumley was the first woman Doctor.
While erosion's comment is right about how canon works here (the tv show is its own entity and precedes everything else), the original comment still raises a great point about the execution and about expanding the narrative possibly being more interesting as an approach.
Doctor who is such a long running show that "cannon" is never really set in stone as there can be so many retconns and other changes to the story where Dr who is one of the few shows that lets you have head cannon. I like it because you can pick and choose which interpretation you like best
On Russel T Davies’ Instagram post about the CIN special, a user commented against the change to Davros saying: “Davros isn’t a ‘Wheelchair user’, he’s a partially mutated Kaled in a life support system, halfway between Kaled and Dalek. Like I was perfectly fine seeing Davros pre-accident, I think a lot of fans have wanted to see this for some time, but to insist that this is for ‘better representation of disabled people’ is just utterly bizarre. If we’re now going to pretend, as you suggest, Davros was never in the chair… or he just ‘got better’, well, that undermines one of the greatest villains (Doctor) Who ever created.” Russel T Davies then replied to this comment by saying: “Tough.”
That doesn't bode well, I hope they don't actually go through with it , Davros is iconic. And tbh it seems weirdly ableist that a Villian can't be depicted as a wheelchair user ... I thought wheelchair users were just like everybody else, some good, some bad, but now there's this idea that they should never be depicted as bad? It makes as much sense as saying LGBT people can't be Villains' because of that old adaptation of Dune. RTD himself wrote Cassandra as trans, it never occurred to me that that could be seen as some kind of slight against trans people, but maybe it is now? It honestly baffles me that minorities can't just be depicted as the same as everyone else.
What about minorities as villains? With the master and castavillian, wont people associate indian/Pakistani descent as evil? Mickey was bullied, the doctor clearly turns down Martha and Yaz all. Anyone can turn a ridiculous lens on this. Feels ridiculous anyone would equate disabled and villain. Are sontarans no longer gonna be short?
Its a bit rich coming from RTD seeing as he created Lady Cassandra and Max Capricorn. I did like Bleach's portrayal of Davros before the explosion; if RTD is only going to show parts of Davros' life before the bombardment that crippled him then I have no issue with it, but I am very concerned, I want to think he just worded his intentions poorly.
I was in two minds when I watched it first, but after 5+ re-watches over the past day the CIN mini-episode is growing on me. It doesn't challenge my head canon as much as it could have done, Julian Bleach as a pre-accident Davros just seems to work and Kaled society actually having some kind of joy and humour instead of being serious and miserable (OK, it's joy for all the wrong reasons) is consistent with a society that's had 1,000 years of fighting and doesn't know anything else (you adapt and find your joy where you can). As for whether we only see non-mutated Davros again in the future...as long as it's not a stretch plot-wise, I'm on board with it
Yes, I suppose it doesn't challenge anybody's head canon if people think about what Genesis actually was - It wasn't the true origin of the Daleks, it was more like the beginning of the Dalek takeover. That is absolutely lore accurate from my recollection and I thought it interesting, though it's understandable why people felt confused. On the other hand, the execution turned Genesis into a gag instead of an opportunity for actual narrative. The characters, in comparison to what they stand for, seem out of place all of a sudden (besides the Doctor, though that's a question for another day). I know this kind of stuff was typical in 2005-2009 but comparing this humour to the one in "Born Again" or "Time Crash" feels like subtlety left the room in exchange for quick jabs, and this comes at the expense of diminishing Genesis's austere vibes. I'm not saying it should be completely serious, but characters shouldn't feel like caricatures either. That's precisely why I feel the classics were aware of the flaws in human nature and tried to capture that in detail. That's what made Kaleds and Daleks interesting instead of a joke. Add all this to Russell's statements on the subject of Davros's evil nature being disregarded as a wheelchair trope in favour of viewer sensibilities and you got a very strange recipe.
We won't. RTD says it "vilifies people with disabilities" so no more "chair". Now we have a campy Gru. I'm disabled. This is P.C. B.S. gone insane. I'm out.
@@EsteemedRepresentative And it's weird because there have been people with disabilities who love becoming Davros at comic cons and I honestly get that. People love the charm and the discussions villains bring at the table because they're often considered outcasts or people who face a lot of similar pains in life. If the Doctor was the oncoming storm, that guy bore every storm there is. I think this omission removes the human aspect from people with disabilities and it would've been more interesting to open the dialog about moral choices with a hero that goes through similar pains and comes out on top or even a redemption arc (Moffat tried to give people some hope, but we all know it's never easy with Davros, though it's that clever nature to twist good and evil that makes him so compelling as a character imo).
@@ReversedPolarity And apparently there will be a companion in a wheelchair next year. The two of them crossing paths - now THAT would have been interesting. Imagine Davros offering to "elevate" them beyond the confines of their chair, to make them "more powerful"... only for them to refuse saying they're happy with who they are. MUCH more effective if you ask me.
@@EsteemedRepresentative I've been out of the loop for a bit and actually didn't know that so I had to look it up, but if that's the case, then I think it would be more interesting. I'm still not sure RTD has that in his plans because of what he said in the interview.
I like how you give Russell the credit he definitely deserves for good intentions, and the sketch really was funny, but oh dear… If only he hadn’t “shown his working” in that interview degment… When I was a disabled child I identified with the Daleks. What could be better than to be completely encased in an armoured tank equipped with an energy weapon for blowing away all those able-bodied school bullies (pupils and staff alike)…? Davros, being humanoid, makes the connection all the more explicit. In ‘Genesis’, he doesn’t yet have the weapons that make him just another monster in the Molloy-era; he’s a broken wreck of a man who doesn’t merely survive but dominates those around him with the only two things he has left - his scientific genius and the sheer force of his will. He’s a great disabled character! For myriad examples of what can be achieved if one moves *forward* from the clumsy box-ticking of the current BBC, we need only look to Big Finish, who routinely give strong roles - including villainous ones - to women and to people of colour, without even making heavy weather of it. Because if we want real “inclusivity”, we can’t shy away from letting “minorities” be as gloriously wicked as anyone else. I’ve never shared the oft-cited need to “see myself represented”, but hey ho, if that’s the game we’re playing, these days… I’ve been told more than once, and in no uncertain terms, by other fans that a disabled Doctor would be A Bad Idea, and they’re probably right. (Even though there was a time when he could be a seemingly-frail older man…) But at least let us keep a long-established baddie. Because if disability representation in Doctor Who is to amount to what we got in ‘It Takes You Away’ (and I intend absolutely no criticism whatsoever of the excellent and under-used Eleanor Wallwork) it might be better if they just don’t bother… Personally, I’d like to see Doctor Who do something with a character like Olivia Presteigne from Alfred Bester’s ‘The Stars My Destination’, whose villainy is directly rooted in bitterness at her condition. Oo, they wouldn’t dare…
BIG HINT! Somebody needs to write the script that explains Davros's backstory.... even if it takes a while to film! Julian Bleach is a very good actor!
I'm totally with you! I think that might be a touch too much nuance to fit into a Children at Need sketch but I'm hopeful to see disabled and interesting Doctor Who characters handled with nuance in the future! Your ideas sound pretty awesome ngl
I was hit by a car when I was a lad and was immobile for months. The chronic pain and injury was a cyclic catch 22 to where it seemed like I’d need a scooter or a chair to get around. I used to imagine having a Davros/Dalek base made to fit around my chair as a fun way to customise my experience. As a child I always enjoyed the villains more, whether it was Do tor who, He-Man or Transformers. All my toys were of the baddies.
Well, we kind of have that in I Davos - the (Big Finish) audio drama, frankly. Although that was played with Terry Molloy, not Julian...@@j.adickey2002
I feel like this interview and his previous comments about younger television writers he's mentoring only using TV to push their message without the love of TV just shows how it's probably not his decision or he didn't bring it up first. He talks a lot in the plural sense of "we" "talked about this" etc I don't even think it was specifically an issue that fans or even disability advocates had about the show anyway - it's definitely a trend in media but I feel like it's just there to stir up controversy that no one really was bothered about before
This coming from Russell T Davies who was script editor on The Age of Steel. That had an evil genius in a wheelchair. And again in The Voyage of the Damned another villain in a wheelchair. Who wrote that? The sheer hypocrisy is astounding. Davros wasn’t in a wheelchair. He was in a life support system that he would duplicate to create his Daleks in his own image. He is one of the greatest villains in television history. Why? What made him so scary? As a kid in 1975 I can tell you why. It wasn’t because he was in a “ wheelchair “ it was because the way he looked, the way he talked. Michael Wisher played the character full of hatred exceptionally well. Creeped me out. He was such a memorable villain. Now? He’s just going to be another generic white male villain impersonating Hitler. How dull is that? I can’t remember one disabled group complaining about the Davros character. This “problem “ is all in RTDs head. And then there is the patronising of disabled people by saying they should not be portrayed as villains. Why not? Are they all nice, saintly people? Of course not. RTD can reboot all he wants but he doesn’t have the right to retcon Terry Nation/ Robert Holmes/ Philip Hinchcliffe work. His arrogance knows no bounds. No surprise that you found everything fine.
@@ontos8914 Then he should own up to those “ mistakes “ on screen. And he should retcon his own work. Not that of better writers in the past. Since he’s now the shows creative genius, why does he need to use other writers creations? Leave them alone in the past. Create new villains. Write about the Empire Dalek, or an individual that becomes the Empire Dalek. There are so many more ways he could retcon Dr Who. This is lazy and insulting to Terry Nation/ Robert Holmes/ Philip Hinchcliffe.
The thing is. Davros isn't this evil being because he is disabled. That's not what drives him. Listen to the i davros stories on big finish. He's an evil man who through his terrible experiments becomes disabled. And it's not even like he's a weak character. The doctor literally dreaded hearing his voice in stolen earth. He considers davros to be one of the universes greatest intellects.
Yes, but as RTD, Mr Tardis and many other people are saying, it is still (albeit unintentionally) putting a negative light on disability which has been a trope. Regardless of if whether he is evil because of his disability or not, at a surface level it still represents a disabled villain. Which is a harmful stereotype that has been played out time and time again. RTD literally says that it is no disrespect to past writers who have written disabled villains, but he believed it to be the wrong message to be putting out on children in need. Heck, given RTD has actually used Davros before, he is literally telling us that he has also fallen in the same trap, and that show’s strength in his character that he can put up his hands and say okay maybe I made that mistake. I strongly suspect that RTD will not be using Davros in the future. Davros as a character has been played out and I cannot see much value in bringing him back. He was used excellently in this little episode and I will not be upset if we don’t see any more Davros in Doctor Who.
No one is implying Davros is evil because of his disability, but there is a trope of using disability as visual shorthand for evil, which is what they're avoiding. So, your entire counterpoint is moot.
Exactly! This whole thing about "Davros shouldn't be displayed as a guy in a wheelchair because that equates disability with evil" is simply a fallacy. Davros started from below zero after his war injuries and still managed to trick the Doctor on multiple occasions, the Time Lords considered him a menace and he went from being a war scientist to universal mastermind. The Doctor even sees him more as an archnemesis than other characters in his rogue gallery and that says something about the powerful nature of the man. It's not the disability that made him evil, it's the choices he made during the Kaled/Thal war that made him evil. He, just like the Daleks, was a byproduct of the Nazi influence. I get the point about subtlety, but it baffles me that we're starting to erase or omit history to fit certain molds.
@@dirrdevil or is it that disability is the result of wrong doing. Which is the case in the real world. Improper safety standards and equipment causing disability. Bad driving leading to accidents causing disability. War itself and the horrible effects it has. It's about context. I mean what next the daleks themselves are disabled. Isn't the mark 3 travel machine essentially a wheelchair for the disabled dalek mutant. You want better disabled representation. Then create better disabled characters. Like professor x, Niles Caulder, Heck if anything doctor who is one of the shows that down plays that stereotype. I mean name 1 other disabled dr who villain. Because the only one i can think of is a RTD creation anyway. And it's basically cybermen davros john lumic. The master is an able bodied villain, the toymaker is an able bodied villain, the black guardian is an able bodied villain. Sontarans are able bodied race.
@@ReversedPolarity my other issue is compare it to the only other disabled villain in dr who (that i am aware of) John lumic. Cybus cybermen creator. It seems his motion is infact driven by his own disability. His own fear of death. And that is a character RTD created. If anything a good cyberman story could be used to show a positive disability message. Like having cybermen trying to trick people with disabilities to convert because it is seen as a cure. But upon seeing the horrific nature of what it actually means to be a cyberman. Said disabled characters rally up and help destroy the cybermen. Because they would rather be the way they are over becoming something more horrific.
Regardless of Davros' future appearances, I do think for CiN this was a very thoughtful decision on Russell's part. He clearly applies a lot of care to the things he makes and that is admirable. I think that much like many of the show's controversial things it will eventually either be accepted or completely moved on from. Doctor Who always changes as a function of its premise, which Russell did assert whilst he was talking about it. And at the end of the day, it can always be brushed off as a non-canon charity special. Anyway, on to the 60th! :D
Yeah that's how I felt. I thought RTD's reasoning for doing that way for CiN and the younger audience was a nice gesture. And it reminds me of something Marlon Brando said about stereotypes being the most damaging to younger viewers and how it can shape their view of themselves or others. RTD seems very focused on bringing in a new generation of fans based on his interviews so it makes sense he's being conscious of this stuff and what kids will think on the playground after watching DW. I don't feel strongly either way about it. Some disabled people might think it's a little silly and that villains like that are empowering, I've seen that take. I've also seen people happy with it. So we'll see if it sticks based on reception from that community and fans too. Also with the bigger budget they can potentially go a different route with post-Genesis Davros anyway, maybe something similar to Palpatine in Rise of Skywalker where he's attached to a crane or some other machinery if they want to avoid the wheelchair imagery. If we get more pre-Genesis Davros and a machine nightmare Davros his old design wouldn't be a huge loss to me at least. The show is always updating it's look after all and that'd feel fresh imo.
I mean, even though it does kind of contradict. Genesis genesis contradicts the stuff that came before it How they were made ain't the fixed point the nazi pepper pots are
Exceot I never seem Davros as a wheelchair bound. I saw a threatening guy with army of daleks behind him also wheelchair people are not procelain made,,they’re human beings just like you and me the only difference is that they’re stuck on a wheelchair plain and simple even they themselves hate when people look at them with sympathy. @@JCM-ve5gg
Honestly, I was already of the opinion Davors had a pretty definitive ending in _The Witch's Familiar_ anyway. Like, it ends where it began (the end of Davros' story intercut with its beginning). So yeah, I really don't think they SHOULD bring him back again anyway, at least in a meaningful sense (as opposed to time-travel cameos like this). Creatively, Davros story is already over, so I really don't think this is gonna be the big "problem" for the show going forward people think it is.
I feel like they could've just dropped this short with the new Davros and no one wouldn't have even blinked. I think the controversy is a thing just bc Russell had to randomly open his mouth ab this when he didn't even need to
I kinda hope they don't change Davros' design in future. Disability coding for villainy is an awful trope but I think this short has done enough by showing that his disability isn't what made him evil, he was always terrible.
I have a disability and I agree that there's ways to show old-design Davros in future. I think Doctor Who would really benefit from more heroic/positive characters with disabilities (who are meaningfully part of the show) if they want to properly shake that association (and make the show more interesting overall).
I wouldn't have minded retiring Davros' current design, if Moffat had actually let him die in Witch's Familiar. Could've then brought him back as a clone in further appearances, which would logically not include the disfigurement, and would (retroactively) give a sense of finality to that episode without actually getting rid of the character.
don't mean to be rude but I think you are overreacting with the "disabled villainy" bit, most villains who happen to be a minority aren't evil because they are minorities and are rarely if ever depicted as such, and barely anyone finds this offensive or is offended by it. I feel people who say "this villain being X coded is bad" are just looking for things to react negatively to, like a leftwing version of being reactionary. that's just my dumb take though, like I said I don't mean to be rude and I do appreciate your take.
The very same year that Doctor Who first had a dyspraxic character, I was turned away from a simple volunteering position at the BBC directly because of my dyspraxia. As a disabled person, these kinda guestures to the disabled community have always felt a little bit two-faced as a result, and always feel like they are meant to cater to able people's guilt and make a circus out of being progressive rather than actually help us out. Still thought the performance was really good though, and probably the right choice to make to represent Davros these days. I just hope actual disabled talent is given a fair chance both on and off screen.
Well I can think of some heroes who were wheelchair bound. Professor-X leader and founder of the X- Men , Niles Coulder aka The Chief leader of the Doom Patrol and Iron Side as played by Raymond Burr from the Iron Side tv series
Great minisode, but if it was too sensitive to show Davros on a Children in need special in all his regalia, then DONT BLOODY WRITE A DAVROS CHILDREN IN NEED SPECIAL. Im unfortunately one of those fans that is disgusted with thr change and RTD reasoning for the change. How dare he speak for disabled people. If you associate disabled with evil, then you are the knobhead. Nice move for disabled actors if the ethos going forward is they cannot be villains, practically halved their roles. How very 'inclusive'.
Davros was never meant to be seen as 'disabled'. The original intention was to have Davros be so impossibly ancient that he replaced each part of his body as it died. He's basically a necromancer.
Not forgetting that the lower half of Davros' body was missing, because of the Thal attack and he ultimately modelled the Daleks on his life support chair.
I was actually waiting for a long time to see davros before he was wounded. But , i don't think that's a good idea to replace him completely later in the series. This would create a lot of continuity problems.
@@ΝικολαςΧελιδωνης Not really. The whole thing can be explained away that as long as he appears timeline wise after Capaldi that the regeneration energy he stole restored him, we know it's powerful stuff and he took a lot of it into his chair. It's a tidy lore friendly way to explain it. Or they just don't explain it, he was a head inside a Dalek Emperor casing in a classic episode then appears in his chair again later and it's never discussed how or why by anyone.
@@chazo1367 Yes , that's actually not a bad idea,but i still think it would create some problems, because,we don't actually see davros regenerate or rejuvenate in witch's familiar. I also got the idea of seeing davros in normal form after the witch's familiar.
@@ΝικολαςΧελιδωνης Well we don't see him at all after, he is restored but the effect might be delayed because of how damaged he is, after the Doctor is rescued and Davros is poked by Missy they just leave him, we don't even know if he died or not.
With davros getting regeneration energy from the 12th doctor in his last canon TV appearance, I hope we see him whole and humanoid in his next Davies's reasoning is pretty iffy though
Iffy is saying little. What he said was a whole fallacy. If he has trouble bringing post-injury Davros because of the reasons he provided, then he is plain wrong about it. Davros was evil, but it wasn't because he was disabled, he was an extremist by default (just like the Daleks, who were a byproduct of the Nazis). Deleting or omitting history to fit a mold is absurd.
@@ReversedPolarity Except he isn't omitting history or deleting it, the chair and accident still happened, it's just a look that might retire going forward, embracing change like Doctor Who has always done.
@@chazo1367 Sticks and stones. Retiring the look is omitting it when you don't plan on using it. Sure, Davros is still there, but if you just change the time frame in order to appease audience sensibilities or media guidelines (which is the crux of this whole thing), then it's the same thing as not showing the character when he became the mastermind behind the Daleks just because he's in a chair. This is not embracing change, this is simply not accepting that there's a human factor in all of us. We learn from good and bad examples, and there's nothing to learn from this imo.
I never actually viewed Davros as disabled funnily enough, I just thought he was using an earlier type travel machine to get his decrepid self around, they say only the good die young and Davros is so evil he just refuses to die with the half casing keeping him alive. The depiction was great here though
@@ontos8914 what do you find disagreeable with my statement? That I never viewed Davros as disabled before or that I enjoyed the change? It is perfectly acceptable for people to come from a point of ignorance and then be open to change you know.
Show me one disabled person who has EVER thought of Davros as ”associating evil with disabledness…” this is a bit too progressive thinking even for me.
one thing that bugs me about the davros thing is that, and i know it's a "stupid" selfish reason, is that it feels a bit spoilery. now i expect this guy to show up, where instead they could have used the flashback to show this version now, and then BAM, reveal it in a proper episode. i understand davies's reasons, and i think the casting decisions for series 14/1 are a good sign of things to come, but to do this big speech about davros for a 5 minute thing, knowing we probably have to wait at least 2 years for a dalek story that might feature this new davros, feels a bit wasted, even if it fits the context of children in need
As for Davros' "current" appearance being the new way that we see him, I can see it working. Think about it, the last time we saw him, the 12th Doctor gave him some of his regeneration energy. For all we know, there was plenty left over for Davros to fashion himself a version of his full body before his accident and extensive surgeries. We've seen what regeneration energy has done with some human cells and a Time Lord's hand, so anything is possible. In the end, it allows for us to have a new vision of Davros to explore, but without having to erase decades of the character being disabled.
I loved the approximation of Nyder's voice calling Davros away, it was the magic moment for me; you are the first of the many reviewers to recognise the now deceased actor's unique intonation.
In 1963, the Daleks were people damaged and mutated by nuclear radiation. They adapted by living as cyborgs inside Dalek casings. Technically, every Dalek is a disabled person. Russell T Davies is now in a tight corner. If the retcon of Davros is to be applied consistently, then the Daleks would have to become evil robots, following on from "Destiny of the Daleks", where Terry Nation had retconned the Daleks into robots to borrow a plot idea from Isaac Asimov, to pit them against the Movellan robot race. As an aside, the Daleks could be given legs, thus converting them into fudged, low rent Cybermen. The Cybermen are disabled people with augmented cybernetic appliances. The principle is exactly the same as with Davros, the Daleks and the Cybermen. A bird breaking a snail's shell with a stone is using a tool. Tool usage predates humanity. A bird is an advanced form of dinosaur. Davros' chair, the Tardis and a smartphone are all applied technology. If this principle is to be applied consistently, then we would have to live as less than animals who have used simple tools for millions of years. The HG Wells "War of the Worlds" Martians would be forced to relinquish their tripod war machines in the service of political correctness and the song thrush would starve through want of a stone to obtain vital food. It is vital to apply an idea consistently. Making Davros into a goose-stepping Twinkletoes can be seen as politically correct cherrypicking. No Davros chair. No Daleks. No Cybermen. If the Daleks had not appeared in 1963, NO DR WHO!!! The show would have been axed due to declining viewer ratings, a trend dramatically reversed by the success of the disabled Dalek creatures, who found a way of surviving by resourceful, technological adaptation to an altered and hostile environment. Davros was the architect of this. "NuHu" is a towering edifice of retrospective continuity. It will be forced to remain so in order to retrieve the vital cornerstones and pillars of the show. The relationship of living beings to technology and survival is part of life and the implications raised by the future possibilities of this is huge. This goes way beyond Dr Who. It is a vital ingredient of Science Fiction itself. More importantly still. Science Fact!!!
For Big Finish fans/potential fans: Big Finish is having a 'Flash Sale'/discount for Davros audio stories until 19th November/tomorrow (23 : 59 UK time).
Tv includes disabled people to make them mire inclusive then you don't include them for fear that they'll offend wheelchair users 🙄 You just can't win, can you? The same old boring argument. "But, what if? We're scared that? Enough! To hell with fear of offending someone and just write a good story! Life isn't here to accommodate all our wants and needs no matter how much we whine about it
After having watched this sketch I have to say that I kind of liked how people can take from it what they want. This could fit in with the currently known canon in so many ways. It is very tongue in cheek, but still gives hints of foreshadowing and danger. In my humble opinion, RTD has pulled a blinder with this one, being able to cater for many different fan theories, whilst still adding that frisson of danger and intrigue.
I'm annoyed about the lack of credits, I know people have been trying to work out the music if its Murray or not! For the voice on the tannoy, has Nyder ever appeared in Big Finish? Because it could be whoever played them then?
Hate to be the one but I hate davros and I think post his second appearance each appearance after was more and more rubbish and really his new who stories are just Nonsense I think the best Dalek stories are all the pre Genesis of the Daleks as there not merely extras in there own stories with my favourite Dalek story being Planet of the Daleks and really the only fun Davros story is destiny of the Daleks even if it's kinda a tonal whiplash with the bleakness and the goofiness of the Terry Nation Script rewritten by Douglas Adams.
You can't change davros if he's saying what I think he's saying he's totally off if you are playing davros before he changes fine, but don't mess with the show any more its getting a bit much
I dont mind and except some changes but this a step too far i totally disagree with Russell on this you can't compare real life events to a fantasy show i'm sorry changing Davros is like changing Darth Vader's look no, no, no he's wrong and he's got no right to do this this is not his creation this is Terry Nation's creation i don't care what the political reason behind this is this is Davros this is his iconic look and to diminish that is wrong.
6:23 _"Julian Bleach's Davros doesn't feel like a compromised portrayal"_ - Whilst I wouldn't say Bleach didn't give it 100%, I got the distinct impression that his delivery was of a tongue-in-cheek, almost camp, variety. It wasn't flat-out "pantomime villain", but it wasn't far off.
Yeah I agree with you regarding Davros and I think it makes sense since this is pre-Genesis, so I'm absolutely fine with it! And Julian Bleach is SO ggood, I'm really glad they brought him back! I love that you can still see 13 in 14 "60 minutes ago I was this really brilliant woman" that really made me smile! Loved it, this was a lot of fun! And I think it's really cool that this leads directly on from Liberation of the Daleks (which is also canonical!) Only a week to go until the 60th specials start and I cannot wait!
I wonder if any of the production team who were "consulted" have disablites ~ though it's highly doubtful. What about the disabled kids who love Davros as was?
Yeah the whole 'not a comedy skit', and then it is, was silly. But, it was fine. It wasn't massive, but it was fun to see and gives a bit of an introduction to the 14th.
I feel like this interview and his previous comments about younger television writers he's mentoring only using TV to push their message without the love of TV just shows how it's probably not his decision or he didn't bring it up first. He talks a lot in the plural sense of "we" "talked about this" etc I don't even think it was specifically an issue that fans or even disability advocates had about the show anyway - it's definitely a trend in media but I feel like it's just there to stir up controversy that no one really was bothered about before
I honestly liked almost nothing about the skit. And I find it ironic that Russell cared so much about the portrayal of disability but didn't think twice about casting a non-white person as a N@zi allegory. I thought the set looked cheap, it was overacted very unconvincingly (Julian Bleach was great though), and I don't like how it contradicts Genesis. Davros had literally only just invented the dalek's gun at the beginning of that story, so what he becomes disabled and scarred, and has a third eye implanted in his head in the maximum week between this and showing the gun to Gharman? Or was he just never disabled now? As a woke lefty snowflake, I totally understand the desire to avoid the problematic history of relating disability to villainy, but there's a very easy way around that. JUST DON'T WRITE ABOUT DAVROS. There, solved the problem. Witch's familiar was a brilliant thematic ending for his character anyway, so unless you really think you can do something new with him, which I doubt, what's the point in digging him up again? (I liked the Nyder easter egg)
The last time we saw Davros in cannon he was messing around with regeneration energy; I'd be willing to except the explination that Deveros used the regeneration energy he stole from the Doctor to regenerate himself a new body.
I think in this context for CIN it’s fine , but the permanent reimagining Russell seems to be implying is too oversensitive and I’ve seen wheelchair users at Comic-Cons in Davros cosplay and found it heartwarming , inclusive and cool as fck
My cousin's a wheelchair user, and always cosplays as Davros at cons because in her words "he's the greatest villain ever, and always getting reigned in by his creations". She says she can't cosplay as him now because of RTD.
The same Russel who gave aliens IBS for laughs I'm sorry in not buying it. Julian bleach was fantastic in this and seeing Davros before his accident is extremely interesting but to undo such an iconic character because he doesn't personally believe in the character is tragic loss for dr who fans
i have no problem with it for a prequal story ide just like the character to remain the same in future stories. i guess I'm to overly defensive about it lol @@MrTARDIS
I’ve never once associated disability with evil. Some characters can be both. Doesn’t mean that just because they’re disabled then they’re evil. If this decision is purely for the Children in Need sketch then I understand but hopefully they don’t completely retcon Davros’ character.
Didn’t really notice that Tennant was playing 13 in this mini episode. Nice touch. Would be interesting since the doctor has returned to an old face and this being the first time he’s done this in his pov, The curator is later in his timeline. What if the Fourteenth Doctor has small moments of personality traits from past incarnations in his performance. I think it’d cool to have patchworked Doctor.
Davros being like this fore the special? No issue, that simply means his accident is wary recent when we see him in Genesis of the Daleks, fore all we know it happens RIGHT after this scene. Him being like this in FUTURE appearances that ARENT Flashbacks to this time period....difficult. I wouldnt mind but then have there be a reason fore it, dont just have him suddnly be like this, give us a explanation as to why he suddnly has two arms, and his lower bodey back.
Capaldi Regeneration Energy. Easy lore explanation. Can also go Classic Who route, he was a head a Dalek Emperor body for a serial, then appears later as normal and no explanation is provided, it's left to the viewers to decide.
@@chazo1367 Acually the decapitatet head was not real, it was a rouse to mislead poeple and waste any potential assasination attempts on the head and not his acual bodey. And when he was the Dalek Emperor he still had his bodey, it now was just inside a more fancy looking travel machine then his regular chair. But yeah, saying his bodey regeneratet from when the Doctor gave him regeneration energy would be the best explanation. Heck it would only take a single line. "Suprised? You should not be, after all you yourself know better then anyone the potential of Regeneration energy" And voila.
I mean it’s empowering that a galactic badass villain was crippled by war whose wheelchair design is reminiscent of his equally mutilated genetic remains of his people the Kaleds and their tiny mobile travel Mobile machine. You have to give the disabled agency to occupy all kinds of roles. Other than that, it was a good way to satirise fascism which is so prevalent in these times. Someone be on the look out if NATO, Russia and Israel develop their own mark III travel machine
@@fragalot rtd literally said and explained why davros shouldn't be portrayed as an amputee. Do you really think he will go back on what he said and put him back in the chair?
Changing Davros as a prequel to "Genesis of the Daleks" is reasonable. For 50 years (!) I had assumed Davros had been injured and used his chair as the basis for the Dalek travel machine. Now it's the other way around--he was injured and used the Dalek technology to save his own life. I can live with that. Changing it for Children in Need, ok, but then why have Davros in the Daleks at all? There are other creatures that could have been used as antagonists. Why fall back on the Daleks? Issue avoided. But if they're going for this to be all future Davros appearances...no, I can't get behind that. Davros in the chair is iconic. Furthermore, the chair and the prosthetics are the reason Davros has been recast 3 times over the past decades, including his appearance the first time RTD ran the show. And in the larger context, while I am normally not one of those people who rails against wokeism, it seems RTD is erring on the side of caution WRT virtue signaling. First, he wouldn't let David Tennant regenerate into Jodie Whittaker's costume because of some convoluted argument about trans people that, quite honestly, I don't remember. Now he wants Davros out of the chair because he doesn't want wheel chair users portrayed as evil even though the number of Doctor Who fans who saw Davros' first reveal in "Genesis of the Daleks" as an indictment of wheelchair users is zero. He's getting ridiculous. I hope the forthcoming shows are not worse.
Originally, he was injured first, created his life support chair, experimented on the Kaleds, used the same technology as his chair to create the mark III traveling machine, then decreed the Daleks would be created "in his likeness". This retcons Genesis of the Daleks, and not in a good way.
I was on board with showing Davros in this way. I went off it really quickly when RTD gave his reasoning in the Unleashed episode. I thought was more offensive to disabled people to be acting like they aren't individuals who can have completely different personalities. Yes someone might be a nice person while another person might be horrible. Acting like we can't have a bad guy be disabled is just ableist by treating them like delicate things that need to be babied instead of as human beings that are no different from able bodied people and can equally be good or bad
That's not what Russell is saying. He's not saying disabled people can't be villains. He's saying that historically there's been an association between disabled people and evil. He wanted Doctor Who not to be involved with that stereotype anymore, especially when it's for Children in Need a charity that helps kids with disabilities.
@@brewster_4 I feel like the whole thing is the thing that makes Davros so evil is the fact that he was disfigured so much by the war which reflects how he has become barely even Kaled more like the monsters he creates than the people he is meant to be helping. He has thus not really got anything to do with disabilities as he is more to do with themes as he doesn't feel like a wheelchair user but more a halfway point to a dalek. He hated the Thals so much because of what they did to him.
@@cillianennis9921 The *reason* he's disfigured doesn't actually matter in this context. The fact that he is at all is what feeds into the disabled villain trope.
RTD is entitled to his feelings about Davros as a representation of disability but I just find his thinking misguided. 1) Davros was not in a wheelchair 2) The Daleks were modelled on the technology Davros built for himself. 3) Terry Nation happily wrote a positive role for a character in a wheelchairs (ie in The Dalek Invasion of Earth). There is a long tradition of not representing wheelchair users as evil. Rather, such representations draw on the trope of one part of the body compensating or leading to a change in another. So characters who are "brainy" are shown as having atropied or ineffective limbs eg The Mekon (Dan Dare), Charles Xavier (The X-Men) and so on. As a teen , I didn't associate Davros with wheelchair users, I didn't call wheelchair users "Oy! Davros!" or "He's a bit of a Davros!", nor did I grab wheelchair users and role them into ponds as if on Exxelon and I certainly didn/t shove a plunger in their faces while intoning "Mercy, I don't know the meaning of the word!" If wheelchair users are no longer to be portrayed as bad or evil, RTD is restricting the roles they can play! There has been no relation between Davros being in a wheelchair and the fact he is evil.
Wrong. (1) Davros is in what's essentially a wheelchair, and you're a bad faith actor if you can't accept this. (2) Who cares? (3) No one is saying Terry Nations portrayed all people in wheelchairs as evil. Watch the RTD clip again, but pay attention this time. (4) Good for you for not being an utter piece of shit then, but you are being one now because you don't understand that negative media tropes exist regardless if you buy into them or not.
@@dirrdevil If Davros is in a wheel chair (he isn't) and the Daleks are based on him (including his central red eye) then they are representations of people with disabilities . This is confirmed by the way, in the past, they encountered a disabiling environment. The Daleks are an even more extreme example of the brain with atrophied limbs. So now we have and able bodied man creating an evil race of characters with disabilities.
Gotta say I love the cute details of the Dalek in this short. The way it's eyestalk just bobs up and down, looking at the 14th Doctor as they lock eyes is charming, and the shot of it looking down as it's plunger arm raises up, almost like it's proudly showing Davros it's new appendage is great
I assumed the plunger was from another Dalek - what's more likely for the doctor to have right by the front door of his Tardis - spare parts from a Dalek or plumbing equipment?
I also thought this was supposed to be the character prior to disfigurement or some wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff and I love seeing Julian Beach's actual face anyway because it was brilliant and I didn't mind the comedic stuff because I love the fact that Russell brings that to the table along with the tears sometimes but his statements about purposefully making the character not disabled add some retcon with no narrative reason same with the whole costume thing we've not been given a narrative reason and he is giving interviews saying he's doing it because he's trying to remove an evil disabled character and also to keep people from making fun of a man and woman's clothes by removing them from View. I find it disgusting ableist and gender non-conforming phobic bulshit. He can have his reasons but he should have just kept his big Gob shut and left them for story reasons. I wish I wouldn't have watched Unleashed because I love this special and it really got me fired up for the festivities in the coming week. The sad fact is that Russell doesn't even realize what he's doing. I'm gay disabled and Indigenous so I know all about inclusivity Erasure discrimination etcetera and I can tell you right now this sort of patronizing crap does not fly with the majority of the community of disabled Doctor Who fans. So I'm going to stick that this is pre-accident and lavish much praise end adoration on you for saying that yes it cleared up one thing the Doctor poops and that just made my day and I've laughed more than I have since this morning after seeing the special and before I saw Russell's patronizing comments when I started ranting up and down across the internet about the stupid decision that Russell made without really thinking it through. I've written this only halfway through your video but I promise I won't come back to write for more because I am pretty done at this point and hanging on to that laughter you just gave me so thank you again.
Yeah, I think RTD certainly means well and I like that he "changed" past Davros for the charity, but (a big but) taking away his disability just doesn't sit well with me? Because disabilities just can't be taken away (and I know it's not it, but it almost feels like he's being rewarded for being evil)? This is coming from an ambulatory wheelchair user (tho more full time than not), I don't know what to think tbh 🙈 Same with the clothes, I don't understand why it'd be strange for the Doctor to wear them? Jodie also wore Peter's clothes, I didn't think about it until he mentioned it, I chalked it up to his regeneration being different 🤔
@@SamuelBlack84 The clothes... or him being David Tennant again? I think that the fact he looks like the tenth Doctor is for this reason too! Or at least that's my current running theory haha Edit: Also maybe because he said he "doesn't want to go", the Toymaker wants to give him what he wanted, but make it so he'll regret such wish? We'll se! ✨
Seeing many people complaining about this change online saying "It's unfair if a disabled character couldnt be evil". And I feel like they listen again to what RTD actually says in the interview clip... The issue is not just that an evil character uses a wheelchair, the problem is that "disability has had a VERY long tradition of being associated with evil". Of course, in an ideal world, any good or evil character should have an equal chance of being disabled, but that's not the current state of play, and they're talking as if it is. Hopefully that's where we'll be in 50 years time. But right now we're at a point where for most of the past century (particularly since 1950, when film & TV really became what they are now), disability has been a strong, deeply embedded coding for evilness, weirdness and otherness (e.g. see Ian Fleming). So, right now, the balance needs redressing first. And for RTD, as a writer, who can only effect his tiny corner of the global media landscape, feeding into that stereotype by keeping the legendary Hitler-analogue villan as disabled (in very human ways) isn't helpful.
You redress the balance by making disabled protagonists (which RTD hasn't done), and stopping writing about Davros. You don't just retcon Davros to not be disabled anymore.
@@bookswithike3256 Except he isn't being retconned. He still had the accident. He can easily be explained in later appearances lore wise because of stolen regeneration energy from Capaldi. People need to remember these things, we haven't seen him since that episode and the energy can likely restore him with how much was taken. The show is about accepting and embracing changes, changing Davros later with a lore reason works just fine, they aren't going back and saying he was never in the chair.
Actually, this gave me a bit more context on the RTD/Davros controversy. It makes more sense to me now. I don't agree that Davros was ever seen that way, but c'est la vie.
davies: davros is essentially a wheelchair user and its important not to associate disability with evil moffat: lol wouldn't it be funny if the doctor pulled davros out of his chair and rolled around in it?
I don't know if anyone else feels the same way but I had small issue with Julian Bleach's performance. I thought it was a bit weird that he plays Davros the exact same way before he gets his injuries. The way Davros speaks and moves always to me at least came off as him struggling because of his injuries. His slow, raspy voice and frail hands gestures always came off as if that was the case so it was a bit weird that Davros here does the same thing but before he is injured. I wish he played it just a bit differently like how Terry Malloy did in IDavros in Big Finish. I know it's a quick Children in Need so I'm probably asking for too much. I just wish since they bothered to bring the actor back they could let him play with the role a little more
No offense but as a very big doctor who fan I quite like davros's new look it gives me nazi general vibes and it makes sense cause I swear davros was based on hitler
This was what made me realise that Doctor who was well and truly back. Not the trailers, not the promotional material, not the release dates, but Doctor who fans complaining about the current showrunner. It’s like it never left.
Unleashed played up to that big time. Destination: Skaro and Unleashed both seemed to be parodies of the real thing. Some gags were subtle, others make a sledgehammer look subtle. Neither were intended to be taken seriously, except to get people talking about it!
Most fandoms are toxic gutters of people with nothing better to do than cry about progress and have an idealized dogma in their minds that can not be challenged as their whole life is based on it.
@@bladersmosh RTD has always been a master at getting his stuff talked about. Remember the ending of Stolen Earth and how much hype the regeneration their generated for the whole week? Everyone was talking about it and who is replacing Tennant mid two parter like that. People were speculating and losing their minds. He is good at drumming up attention.
the portrayal of davao’s also works as it is in the past and we can possibly say it is before he ended up as we know him. if they did one later in his timeline like that it would be complicated narratively.
"The war has caused the Kaled race to mutate, but within this casing we can evolve, we can start anew. We can become stronger than ever! My ultimate masterpiece of design!"
Thanks for watching, folks! Be sure to leave a comment and "like" the video to appease the almighty RUclips algorithm! And don't forget that my Hartnell-era review marathon is available to Patrons NOW! It should be available on RUclips next week.
Do you think you'll do a retrospective on the other Doctor Who CiN specials/appearances at some point!
Don't push that, it flushes the toilet waste tanks on deck 7
My main takeaways:
- I now desperately want more Julian Bleach like this. He was so, so good.
- I didn’t realise Davros had facial scarring - I just thought he was really wrinkly.
- The plunger may just mean the Tardis has drainage!
Didn't that plunger come from Rusty?
But where does it go
Does it just leak out of the bottom of the box
We know that the communicator is connected to the phone at least during the eleventh and twelve the doctor's era
And the interstellar antenna is connected up to the lantern which allows the doctor to send pulses to Make it rain or in the winter snow
And I think thirteen was pulling wires out of the bottom of it
I like the idea that Functions of the tardus are hidden in the exterior
Like how the master's tardis would be the most accurate clock in the universe
And also strike twelve whenever he wakes up from a healing coma Because this was old crispy
Wouldn't it be cool if the phone Rang just as the doctor finally over a regeneration phenomena got up
@@ReiseLukasno rusty removes his gun infront if the doctor not his plunger
Or it might be needed in case the Doctor needs to do plunging on a house he might need to use the bathroom
Probably Nardole would clog the WC!
I think that they need to give the new Davros an equally iconic design or else he just looks like some guy. Maybe make him look more Dalek like as if he had been experimenting on himself.
that happened to the master once,
he had dalek bumps...
Or just leave Davros as he is... Pleasing everyone is no excuse for white washing history... no pun intended when referring to the white saviour complex
I never thought it was a wheelchair nor did it make me think wheelchair uses are evil.
Show me the data of the throngs of wheelchair usesrs that were offended by Davros prior to this ridiculous special.
I love this short and know it’s a prequel but if we’re on this topic of disability in media, why doesn’t RTD write a full time companion as someone with a disability that is a constant problem. Okay, there was Ryan but his dyspraxia was made non-existent unless the plot called for its relevance.
I’m surprised you didn’t talk about the Independent article on this minisode mistakenly saying that Davros was played by Christopher Eccleston 🤣
I did like the children in need mini episode. I do think however Davros was every good. However Davros needs to be deformed as in cannon.
I honestly never saw Davros as disabled, I saw him as just a creepy alien cyborg. Plus his chair being the used for the lower half of the Dalek casing adds to the character. It shows that Davros is putting part of himself into his creation. Which I think is consistent with his god complex.
I always thought of it as a life support of sorts.
I'm one of those weird guys who already knew the tardis had a toilet after Nardole leaves it in The Pilot 😎
I mean, I kind of just assumed it had *everything* .
I always assumed it had one. That thing’s got a swimming pool. But it is really funny to think of the Doctor having to stop off somewhere in like 1927 to quickly take a pee and somehow get mixed up in a plot involving Al Jolson and monsters that travel through sound waves in cinemas.
@@samuelbarber6177specifically in the library
No one wants to see the doctor or companion going to take a number 2.
@@Joey15811The Doctor is an alien, and we cannot assume human bodily functions apply. Unless explicitly stated on the show, we simply don't know if the Doctor goes number 1 or 2, or even has an anus or genitals, and no the plunger doesn't prove anything since it could be for a sink or just for the companions. This is a mystery that will remain forever, or at least until we get an episode where the Doctor starts an OneyFans.
(Yes we know Time Lords can procreate, but not every species requires genitals to do that)
I think the problem with Davros’ new design (and David not regenerating into Jodie’s clothing) is Russel looking for potential controversies, avoiding them and then calling out the controversy he didn’t do, thus causing the opposite controversy.
If they just didn’t address the change (or explain it as a timey-wimey thing), then there wouldn’t be any discourse.
Well I was thinking about asking him on Twitter calmly about it and not act like everyone else on there.
I agree about avoiding controversies and creating new problems.
I thought with Jodie, it might have just been easier to have found a reason to get Jodie out of her normal clothes.
Have the lazer beam burn them and change her into pyjamas.
Have her in a hospital gown being nursed by the cats at New New York when she woke.
Unless the regeneration is something like an illusion by the Toy Maker (?) … and the Doctor really looks like 15, but is perceived to look like 14, I can’t see a satisfying man explanation for the clothes change. 🤷♂️
@@disneyboy3030he doesn't use Twitter
@@PilotFlight2MarsPatrick Troughton had different clothes to William Hartnell
It’s before the mutation
I hear what you are saying about an evil wheelchair bound Davros would not be appropriate within the context of Children In Need. However, there's a much easier fix - just don't do a Davros skit.
Well he doesn't have to be wheelchair bound for anything pre-genesis. It's what RTD said in the interview that's an issue. Without that interview, the skit is fine.
@@90sArchive I 100% agree. This would happily sit before Genesis, before whatever accident crippled Davros. But RTD has now basically said this is Davros now forever. His comments about how villains have often been disabled and/or othered in some ways is totally true.. but the fix isn’t to rewrite history, but to provide much more positive role models.
It must be set only just before Genesis of the Daleks, since Nyder was in it, the Mark III Travel Machine was very nearly that as shown in part 1.
I think showing that before his accident that Davros was still evil does enough to detach him from the disabled villain stereotype. He isn't evil because of his disability, he is just evil. It fits within the canon as we don't actually know when davros became disfigured, and overall it was fun and for a good cause. In future they have even set the stage for him to return in a similar fashion with the regeneration scene ending the witch's familiar. I say that if they want to make the change, Julian Bleach is a fantastic actor who has proven here that he would be capable of that change.
I mean... technically we did see how he got disfigured in I, Davros that it was before the mark III was finished, however timey wimey eh. It's not the biggest retcon tbh and very understandable.
@@HexToTheWorld I was going to mention that but you've done it on my behalf. i-Davros basically covers his origins.
Should've killed him off on S9.
@@HexToTheWorldThe darlicks were invented by yarvalen
The only consistency is the nazi pepper pots everything else is influx
@@blueknight07What would give Steven Moffatt the right to do that? I think people need to remember that this show will outlive all of us
The Davros choice works for Children in Need, and I can even forgive the canon messing purely due to that.
But, I am concerned about the future of Davros, it's one thing going back to before Davros was involved in the accident, it's another thing entirely to erase the disability of a character who's had to live with the struggles that come with that most of his life. That I believe could be a bad message to send to kids who do have to live with a disability for the rest of their lives yknow? We'll see how this develops in the future
They won't erase it. He will most likely recover through sci fi science. They're not decanonising wheelchair davros. Merely retiring it. Moving on from it.
STAR TREK's Captain Christopher Pike before and after being irradiated comes to mind. Anson Mount plays a scene where he becomes aware of his future, the chair he ends up in, that Trekkies saw in Season Two. Pike made a moral and ethical choice. Davros is not the hero, and yes... episodes with him BEFORE, delving into his downward spiral... yes. I am very open to the idea!
Deep
Hopefully once Grant Morrison takes charge
TBF, this could in essence be prior to him being in a wheelchair
Seeing Julian Bleach play Davros without the make-up really demonstrates what a great actor he is.
He was so good, I want to see more of this Kaled Davros.
:):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
The kaleds How terry nation made His obvious nazi parallel even more obvious
I am used to seeing the disfigured Davros, but I have to admit pre-accident Davros in the Kaled officer uniform was pretty cool.
I’m surprised you didn’t address them changing the origin for the Dalek name too.
According to Big Finish’s “I Davros: Guilt” episode, the Kaleds led by Davros were guided into war by a battlecry which translated to “and on that day (of victory), men will become as gods." The final word in that phrase in the Kaled’s own language was pronounced Da-Lek. Dalek, is effectively the Kaled word for God and represented the ultimate ambition of the Kaled war machine. That if they could defeat the Thals, their people would become as gods. Likewise, that mutating was not something the Kaleds should fear, it was the next step toward them becoming gods, a big part in the propaganda machine Davros created to get the other Kaleds to go along with his plans.
Obviously, this skit was comedic so I don’t mind them making jokes about things but from a purist lens, the Big Finish interpretation for the term Dalek’s origin is much deeper and went a way in contextualising Kaled religion and society so I still prefer that origin overall.
@erosion271 Agreed, and Children In Need/Comic Relief skits aren't even part of the "proper" TV show anyway. If they were, the TARDIS has landed in Albert Square, and Joanna Lumley was the first woman Doctor.
It could be a Pakistan situation - the name is both an anagram of the provinces that make up the country and means 'land of the pure'.
Get a life.
While erosion's comment is right about how canon works here (the tv show is its own entity and precedes everything else), the original comment still raises a great point about the execution and about expanding the narrative possibly being more interesting as an approach.
Doctor who is such a long running show that "cannon" is never really set in stone as there can be so many retconns and other changes to the story where Dr who is one of the few shows that lets you have head cannon. I like it because you can pick and choose which interpretation you like best
On Russel T Davies’ Instagram post about the CIN special, a user commented against the change to Davros saying:
“Davros isn’t a ‘Wheelchair user’, he’s a partially mutated Kaled in a life support system, halfway between Kaled and Dalek.
Like I was perfectly fine seeing Davros pre-accident, I think a lot of fans have wanted to see this for some time, but to insist that this is for ‘better representation of disabled people’ is just utterly bizarre.
If we’re now going to pretend, as you suggest, Davros was never in the chair… or he just ‘got better’, well, that undermines one of the greatest villains (Doctor) Who ever created.”
Russel T Davies then replied to this comment by saying:
“Tough.”
Sounds like Davies is entering his Time Lord Victorious Era. "The Laws of Doctor Who are mine and they will obey me!!!"
That doesn't bode well, I hope they don't actually go through with it , Davros is iconic. And tbh it seems weirdly ableist that a Villian can't be depicted as a wheelchair user ... I thought wheelchair users were just like everybody else, some good, some bad, but now there's this idea that they should never be depicted as bad? It makes as much sense as saying LGBT people can't be Villains' because of that old adaptation of Dune. RTD himself wrote Cassandra as trans, it never occurred to me that that could be seen as some kind of slight against trans people, but maybe it is now? It honestly baffles me that minorities can't just be depicted as the same as everyone else.
I wonder if he would have responded the same way if the person who asked was in a wheelchair.
He’s such a pompous prick
@@SeanJacksonTutorialsAndy Pipkin in "Little Britain" was a wheelchair user too, and he was pure evil 🙂
the 'doctor who is too woke under chibnall' crowd has a rude awakening coming with russell 2.0
What about minorities as villains? With the master and castavillian, wont people associate indian/Pakistani descent as evil?
Mickey was bullied, the doctor clearly turns down Martha and Yaz all.
Anyone can turn a ridiculous lens on this. Feels ridiculous anyone would equate disabled and villain.
Are sontarans no longer gonna be short?
Good point.
But what about the actors who portrayed them, theyll be unemployed!
Short actors are valid too!
Its a bit rich coming from RTD seeing as he created Lady Cassandra and Max Capricorn.
I did like Bleach's portrayal of Davros before the explosion; if RTD is only going to show parts of Davros' life before the bombardment that crippled him then I have no issue with it, but I am very concerned, I want to think he just worded his intentions poorly.
It's not "a bit rich", it's Davies attempting to atone for what he sees as himself playing into harmful stereotypes with his previous writing.
I was in two minds when I watched it first, but after 5+ re-watches over the past day the CIN mini-episode is growing on me. It doesn't challenge my head canon as much as it could have done, Julian Bleach as a pre-accident Davros just seems to work and Kaled society actually having some kind of joy and humour instead of being serious and miserable (OK, it's joy for all the wrong reasons) is consistent with a society that's had 1,000 years of fighting and doesn't know anything else (you adapt and find your joy where you can).
As for whether we only see non-mutated Davros again in the future...as long as it's not a stretch plot-wise, I'm on board with it
Yes, I suppose it doesn't challenge anybody's head canon if people think about what Genesis actually was - It wasn't the true origin of the Daleks, it was more like the beginning of the Dalek takeover.
That is absolutely lore accurate from my recollection and I thought it interesting, though it's understandable why people felt confused.
On the other hand, the execution turned Genesis into a gag instead of an opportunity for actual narrative. The characters, in comparison to what they stand for, seem out of place all of a sudden (besides the Doctor, though that's a question for another day). I know this kind of stuff was typical in 2005-2009 but comparing this humour to the one in "Born Again" or "Time Crash" feels like subtlety left the room in exchange for quick jabs, and this comes at the expense of diminishing Genesis's austere vibes. I'm not saying it should be completely serious, but characters shouldn't feel like caricatures either. That's precisely why I feel the classics were aware of the flaws in human nature and tried to capture that in detail. That's what made Kaleds and Daleks interesting instead of a joke. Add all this to Russell's statements on the subject of Davros's evil nature being disregarded as a wheelchair trope in favour of viewer sensibilities and you got a very strange recipe.
We won't. RTD says it "vilifies people with disabilities" so no more "chair". Now we have a campy Gru. I'm disabled. This is P.C. B.S. gone insane. I'm out.
@@EsteemedRepresentative And it's weird because there have been people with disabilities who love becoming Davros at comic cons and I honestly get that. People love the charm and the discussions villains bring at the table because they're often considered outcasts or people who face a lot of similar pains in life. If the Doctor was the oncoming storm, that guy bore every storm there is. I think this omission removes the human aspect from people with disabilities and it would've been more interesting to open the dialog about moral choices with a hero that goes through similar pains and comes out on top or even a redemption arc (Moffat tried to give people some hope, but we all know it's never easy with Davros, though it's that clever nature to twist good and evil that makes him so compelling as a character imo).
@@ReversedPolarity And apparently there will be a companion in a wheelchair next year. The two of them crossing paths - now THAT would have been interesting. Imagine Davros offering to "elevate" them beyond the confines of their chair, to make them "more powerful"... only for them to refuse saying they're happy with who they are. MUCH more effective if you ask me.
@@EsteemedRepresentative I've been out of the loop for a bit and actually didn't know that so I had to look it up, but if that's the case, then I think it would be more interesting. I'm still not sure RTD has that in his plans because of what he said in the interview.
I like how you give Russell the credit he definitely deserves for good intentions, and the sketch really was funny, but oh dear… If only he hadn’t “shown his working” in that interview degment… When I was a disabled child I identified with the Daleks. What could be better than to be completely encased in an armoured tank equipped with an energy weapon for blowing away all those able-bodied school bullies (pupils and staff alike)…? Davros, being humanoid, makes the connection all the more explicit. In ‘Genesis’, he doesn’t yet have the weapons that make him just another monster in the Molloy-era; he’s a broken wreck of a man who doesn’t merely survive but dominates those around him with the only two things he has left - his scientific genius and the sheer force of his will. He’s a great disabled character!
For myriad examples of what can be achieved if one moves *forward* from the clumsy box-ticking of the current BBC, we need only look to Big Finish, who routinely give strong roles - including villainous ones - to women and to people of colour, without even making heavy weather of it. Because if we want real “inclusivity”, we can’t shy away from letting “minorities” be as gloriously wicked as anyone else. I’ve never shared the oft-cited need to “see myself represented”, but hey ho, if that’s the game we’re playing, these days… I’ve been told more than once, and in no uncertain terms, by other fans that a disabled Doctor would be A Bad Idea, and they’re probably right. (Even though there was a time when he could be a seemingly-frail older man…) But at least let us keep a long-established baddie. Because if disability representation in Doctor Who is to amount to what we got in ‘It Takes You Away’ (and I intend absolutely no criticism whatsoever of the excellent and under-used Eleanor Wallwork) it might be better if they just don’t bother…
Personally, I’d like to see Doctor Who do something with a character like Olivia Presteigne from Alfred Bester’s ‘The Stars My Destination’, whose villainy is directly rooted in bitterness at her condition. Oo, they wouldn’t dare…
BIG HINT! Somebody needs to write the script that explains Davros's backstory.... even if it takes a while to film! Julian Bleach is a very good actor!
I'm totally with you! I think that might be a touch too much nuance to fit into a Children at Need sketch but I'm hopeful to see disabled and interesting Doctor Who characters handled with nuance in the future! Your ideas sound pretty awesome ngl
I was hit by a car when I was a lad and was immobile for months. The chronic pain and injury was a cyclic catch 22 to where it seemed like I’d need a scooter or a chair to get around.
I used to imagine having a Davros/Dalek base made to fit around my chair as a fun way to customise my experience.
As a child I always enjoyed the villains more, whether it was Do tor who, He-Man or Transformers. All my toys were of the baddies.
Well, we kind of have that in I Davos - the (Big Finish) audio drama, frankly.
Although that was played with Terry Molloy, not Julian...@@j.adickey2002
I feel like this interview and his previous comments about younger television writers he's mentoring only using TV to push their message without the love of TV just shows how it's probably not his decision or he didn't bring it up first.
He talks a lot in the plural sense of "we" "talked about this" etc
I don't even think it was specifically an issue that fans or even disability advocates had about the show anyway - it's definitely a trend in media but I feel like it's just there to stir up controversy that no one really was bothered about before
This coming from Russell T Davies who was script editor on The Age of Steel. That had an evil genius in a wheelchair. And again in The Voyage of the Damned another villain in a wheelchair. Who wrote that?
The sheer hypocrisy is astounding.
Davros wasn’t in a wheelchair. He was in a life support system that he would duplicate to create his Daleks in his own image. He is one of the greatest villains in television history. Why?
What made him so scary? As a kid in 1975 I can tell you why. It wasn’t because he was in a “ wheelchair “ it was because the way he looked, the way he talked. Michael Wisher played the character full of hatred exceptionally well. Creeped me out. He was such a memorable villain.
Now? He’s just going to be another generic white male villain impersonating Hitler. How dull is that?
I can’t remember one disabled group complaining about the Davros character. This “problem “ is all in RTDs head. And then there is the patronising of disabled people by saying they should not be portrayed as villains. Why not?
Are they all nice, saintly people? Of course not.
RTD can reboot all he wants but he doesn’t have the right to retcon Terry Nation/ Robert Holmes/ Philip Hinchcliffe work. His arrogance knows no bounds. No surprise that you found everything fine.
That’s crazy almost like he’s saying he changed his view on that or something. It may be shocking to you to know that people can change their opinions
@@ontos8914 Then he should own up to those “ mistakes “ on screen. And he should retcon his own work. Not that of better writers in the past. Since he’s now the shows creative genius, why does he need to use other writers creations?
Leave them alone in the past. Create new villains. Write about the Empire Dalek, or an individual that becomes the Empire Dalek. There are so many more ways he could retcon Dr Who. This is lazy and insulting to Terry Nation/ Robert Holmes/ Philip Hinchcliffe.
The thing is. Davros isn't this evil being because he is disabled. That's not what drives him. Listen to the i davros stories on big finish.
He's an evil man who through his terrible experiments becomes disabled. And it's not even like he's a weak character. The doctor literally dreaded hearing his voice in stolen earth. He considers davros to be one of the universes greatest intellects.
Yes, but as RTD, Mr Tardis and many other people are saying, it is still (albeit unintentionally) putting a negative light on disability which has been a trope. Regardless of if whether he is evil because of his disability or not, at a surface level it still represents a disabled villain. Which is a harmful stereotype that has been played out time and time again.
RTD literally says that it is no disrespect to past writers who have written disabled villains, but he believed it to be the wrong message to be putting out on children in need.
Heck, given RTD has actually used Davros before, he is literally telling us that he has also fallen in the same trap, and that show’s strength in his character that he can put up his hands and say okay maybe I made that mistake.
I strongly suspect that RTD will not be using Davros in the future. Davros as a character has been played out and I cannot see much value in bringing him back. He was used excellently in this little episode and I will not be upset if we don’t see any more Davros in Doctor Who.
No one is implying Davros is evil because of his disability, but there is a trope of using disability as visual shorthand for evil, which is what they're avoiding. So, your entire counterpoint is moot.
Exactly! This whole thing about "Davros shouldn't be displayed as a guy in a wheelchair because that equates disability with evil" is simply a fallacy. Davros started from below zero after his war injuries and still managed to trick the Doctor on multiple occasions, the Time Lords considered him a menace and he went from being a war scientist to universal mastermind.
The Doctor even sees him more as an archnemesis than other characters in his rogue gallery and that says something about the powerful nature of the man. It's not the disability that made him evil, it's the choices he made during the Kaled/Thal war that made him evil. He, just like the Daleks, was a byproduct of the Nazi influence. I get the point about subtlety, but it baffles me that we're starting to erase or omit history to fit certain molds.
@@dirrdevil or is it that disability is the result of wrong doing. Which is the case in the real world. Improper safety standards and equipment causing disability. Bad driving leading to accidents causing disability. War itself and the horrible effects it has. It's about context. I mean what next the daleks themselves are disabled. Isn't the mark 3 travel machine essentially a wheelchair for the disabled dalek mutant. You want better disabled representation. Then create better disabled characters. Like professor x, Niles Caulder,
Heck if anything doctor who is one of the shows that down plays that stereotype. I mean name 1 other disabled dr who villain. Because the only one i can think of is a RTD creation anyway. And it's basically cybermen davros john lumic. The master is an able bodied villain, the toymaker is an able bodied villain, the black guardian is an able bodied villain. Sontarans are able bodied race.
@@ReversedPolarity my other issue is compare it to the only other disabled villain in dr who (that i am aware of)
John lumic. Cybus cybermen creator. It seems his motion is infact driven by his own disability. His own fear of death. And that is a character RTD created. If anything a good cyberman story could be used to show a positive disability message. Like having cybermen trying to trick people with disabilities to convert because it is seen as a cure. But upon seeing the horrific nature of what it actually means to be a cyberman. Said disabled characters rally up and help destroy the cybermen. Because they would rather be the way they are over becoming something more horrific.
Regardless of Davros' future appearances, I do think for CiN this was a very thoughtful decision on Russell's part. He clearly applies a lot of care to the things he makes and that is admirable. I think that much like many of the show's controversial things it will eventually either be accepted or completely moved on from. Doctor Who always changes as a function of its premise, which Russell did assert whilst he was talking about it. And at the end of the day, it can always be brushed off as a non-canon charity special. Anyway, on to the 60th! :D
It's idiotic.
Yeah that's how I felt. I thought RTD's reasoning for doing that way for CiN and the younger audience was a nice gesture. And it reminds me of something Marlon Brando said about stereotypes being the most damaging to younger viewers and how it can shape their view of themselves or others. RTD seems very focused on bringing in a new generation of fans based on his interviews so it makes sense he's being conscious of this stuff and what kids will think on the playground after watching DW. I don't feel strongly either way about it. Some disabled people might think it's a little silly and that villains like that are empowering, I've seen that take. I've also seen people happy with it. So we'll see if it sticks based on reception from that community and fans too.
Also with the bigger budget they can potentially go a different route with post-Genesis Davros anyway, maybe something similar to Palpatine in Rise of Skywalker where he's attached to a crane or some other machinery if they want to avoid the wheelchair imagery. If we get more pre-Genesis Davros and a machine nightmare Davros his old design wouldn't be a huge loss to me at least. The show is always updating it's look after all and that'd feel fresh imo.
I mean, even though it does kind of contradict. Genesis genesis contradicts the stuff that came before it
How they were made ain't the fixed point the nazi pepper pots are
Exceot I never seem Davros as a wheelchair bound. I saw a threatening guy with army of daleks behind him also wheelchair people are not procelain made,,they’re human beings just like you and me the only difference is that they’re stuck on a wheelchair plain and simple even they themselves hate when people look at them with sympathy. @@JCM-ve5gg
Honestly, I was already of the opinion Davors had a pretty definitive ending in _The Witch's Familiar_ anyway. Like, it ends where it began (the end of Davros' story intercut with its beginning). So yeah, I really don't think they SHOULD bring him back again anyway, at least in a meaningful sense (as opposed to time-travel cameos like this). Creatively, Davros story is already over, so I really don't think this is gonna be the big "problem" for the show going forward people think it is.
The penny dropping when the Doctor turns around to fetch something for the misssing arm from the Tardis is worth it. This is inspired.
I feel like they could've just dropped this short with the new Davros and no one wouldn't have even blinked. I think the controversy is a thing just bc Russell had to randomly open his mouth ab this when he didn't even need to
I kinda hope they don't change Davros' design in future. Disability coding for villainy is an awful trope but I think this short has done enough by showing that his disability isn't what made him evil, he was always terrible.
I have a disability and I agree that there's ways to show old-design Davros in future. I think Doctor Who would really benefit from more heroic/positive characters with disabilities (who are meaningfully part of the show) if they want to properly shake that association (and make the show more interesting overall).
I wouldn't have minded retiring Davros' current design, if Moffat had actually let him die in Witch's Familiar. Could've then brought him back as a clone in further appearances, which would logically not include the disfigurement, and would (retroactively) give a sense of finality to that episode without actually getting rid of the character.
don't mean to be rude but I think you are overreacting with the "disabled villainy" bit, most villains who happen to be a minority aren't evil because they are minorities and are rarely if ever depicted as such, and barely anyone finds this offensive or is offended by it.
I feel people who say "this villain being X coded is bad" are just looking for things to react negatively to, like a leftwing version of being reactionary.
that's just my dumb take though, like I said I don't mean to be rude and I do appreciate your take.
No matter how you write a character, there will always be some idiot somewhere who shoehorns in some pitoful argument
The very same year that Doctor Who first had a dyspraxic character, I was turned away from a simple volunteering position at the BBC directly because of my dyspraxia. As a disabled person, these kinda guestures to the disabled community have always felt a little bit two-faced as a result, and always feel like they are meant to cater to able people's guilt and make a circus out of being progressive rather than actually help us out. Still thought the performance was really good though, and probably the right choice to make to represent Davros these days. I just hope actual disabled talent is given a fair chance both on and off screen.
It's the Beeb, they've been bigoted since their inception.
Well I can think of some heroes who were wheelchair bound.
Professor-X leader and founder of the X- Men , Niles Coulder aka The Chief leader of the Doom Patrol and Iron Side as played by Raymond Burr from the Iron Side tv series
Great minisode, but if it was too sensitive to show Davros on a Children in need special in all his regalia, then DONT BLOODY WRITE A DAVROS CHILDREN IN NEED SPECIAL.
Im unfortunately one of those fans that is disgusted with thr change and RTD reasoning for the change.
How dare he speak for disabled people.
If you associate disabled with evil, then you are the knobhead.
Nice move for disabled actors if the ethos going forward is they cannot be villains, practically halved their roles.
How very 'inclusive'.
Davros was never meant to be seen as 'disabled'. The original intention was to have Davros be so impossibly ancient that he replaced each part of his body as it died. He's basically a necromancer.
Not forgetting that the lower half of Davros' body was missing, because of the Thal attack and he ultimately modelled the Daleks on his life support chair.
I was actually waiting for a long time to see davros before he was wounded. But , i don't think that's a good idea to replace him completely later in the series. This would create a lot of continuity problems.
Yep. If this is the case. The doctor died in Time of the Doctor and didnt get a new cycle for me.
@@Joey15811 this change would be too problematic and definitely unnecessary in my opinion
@@ΝικολαςΧελιδωνης Not really. The whole thing can be explained away that as long as he appears timeline wise after Capaldi that the regeneration energy he stole restored him, we know it's powerful stuff and he took a lot of it into his chair. It's a tidy lore friendly way to explain it. Or they just don't explain it, he was a head inside a Dalek Emperor casing in a classic episode then appears in his chair again later and it's never discussed how or why by anyone.
@@chazo1367 Yes , that's actually not a bad idea,but i still think it would create some problems, because,we don't actually see davros regenerate or rejuvenate in witch's familiar. I also got the idea of seeing davros in normal form after the witch's familiar.
@@ΝικολαςΧελιδωνης Well we don't see him at all after, he is restored but the effect might be delayed because of how damaged he is, after the Doctor is rescued and Davros is poked by Missy they just leave him, we don't even know if he died or not.
I wonder if RTD knows who Hector Salamanca is. An evil character who then ended up in a wheelchair. Smh Russell😒
With davros getting regeneration energy from the 12th doctor in his last canon TV appearance, I hope we see him whole and humanoid in his next
Davies's reasoning is pretty iffy though
Iffy is saying little. What he said was a whole fallacy. If he has trouble bringing post-injury Davros because of the reasons he provided, then he is plain wrong about it. Davros was evil, but it wasn't because he was disabled, he was an extremist by default (just like the Daleks, who were a byproduct of the Nazis). Deleting or omitting history to fit a mold is absurd.
@@ReversedPolarity Except he isn't omitting history or deleting it, the chair and accident still happened, it's just a look that might retire going forward, embracing change like Doctor Who has always done.
@@chazo1367 Sticks and stones. Retiring the look is omitting it when you don't plan on using it. Sure, Davros is still there, but if you just change the time frame in order to appease audience sensibilities or media guidelines (which is the crux of this whole thing), then it's the same thing as not showing the character when he became the mastermind behind the Daleks just because he's in a chair. This is not embracing change, this is simply not accepting that there's a human factor in all of us. We learn from good and bad examples, and there's nothing to learn from this imo.
I never actually viewed Davros as disabled funnily enough, I just thought he was using an earlier type travel machine to get his decrepid self around, they say only the good die young and Davros is so evil he just refuses to die with the half casing keeping him alive.
The depiction was great here though
Imma guess you’re able bodied
@@ontos8914are you?
@@ontos8914 what do you find disagreeable with my statement? That I never viewed Davros as disabled before or that I enjoyed the change?
It is perfectly acceptable for people to come from a point of ignorance and then be open to change you know.
Show me one disabled person who has EVER thought of Davros as ”associating evil with disabledness…” this is a bit too progressive thinking even for me.
No one is saying that's the case...
There is a whole trope on it called EvilCripple if that helps.
The part about why davros is no longer disabled is just, whaaaaaaat!?
Really feel like the voice that calls Davros away is Nick Briggs, and would make sense as they had him onboard to do the dalek line.
A great Nyder impression!
one thing that bugs me about the davros thing is that, and i know it's a "stupid" selfish reason, is that it feels a bit spoilery. now i expect this guy to show up, where instead they could have used the flashback to show this version now, and then BAM, reveal it in a proper episode. i understand davies's reasons, and i think the casting decisions for series 14/1 are a good sign of things to come, but to do this big speech about davros for a 5 minute thing, knowing we probably have to wait at least 2 years for a dalek story that might feature this new davros, feels a bit wasted, even if it fits the context of children in need
5:03 It wasn't a plunger from his TARDIS. It was a Dalek arm from an earlier battle
As for Davros' "current" appearance being the new way that we see him, I can see it working. Think about it, the last time we saw him, the 12th Doctor gave him some of his regeneration energy. For all we know, there was plenty left over for Davros to fashion himself a version of his full body before his accident and extensive surgeries. We've seen what regeneration energy has done with some human cells and a Time Lord's hand, so anything is possible.
In the end, it allows for us to have a new vision of Davros to explore, but without having to erase decades of the character being disabled.
This is obviously pre-Genesis of the Daleks, so this is not an older Davros that has received regeneration energy. It's just young Davros. That's it.
That is actually a really cool idea
No.
This version of Davros looks like he walked straight out of star wars XD
I loved the approximation of Nyder's voice calling Davros away, it was the magic moment for me; you are the first of the many reviewers to recognise the now deceased actor's unique intonation.
Nice. I didn't catch that when I watched it.
In 1963, the Daleks were people damaged and mutated by nuclear radiation. They adapted by living as cyborgs inside Dalek casings. Technically, every Dalek is a disabled person. Russell T Davies is now in a tight corner. If the retcon of Davros is to be applied consistently, then the Daleks would have to become evil robots, following on from "Destiny of the Daleks", where Terry Nation had retconned the Daleks into robots to borrow a plot idea from Isaac Asimov, to pit them against the Movellan robot race. As an aside, the Daleks could be given legs, thus converting them into fudged, low rent Cybermen. The Cybermen are disabled people with augmented cybernetic appliances. The principle is exactly the same as with Davros, the Daleks and the Cybermen. A bird breaking a snail's shell with a stone is using a tool. Tool usage predates humanity. A bird is an advanced form of dinosaur. Davros' chair, the Tardis and a smartphone are all applied technology. If this principle is to be applied consistently, then we would have to live as less than animals who have used simple tools for millions of years. The HG Wells "War of the Worlds" Martians would be forced to relinquish their tripod war machines in the service of political correctness and the song thrush would starve through want of a stone to obtain vital food. It is vital to apply an idea consistently. Making Davros into a goose-stepping Twinkletoes can be seen as politically correct cherrypicking. No Davros chair. No Daleks. No Cybermen. If the Daleks had not appeared in 1963, NO DR WHO!!! The show would have been axed due to declining viewer ratings, a trend dramatically reversed by the success of the disabled Dalek creatures, who found a way of surviving by resourceful, technological adaptation to an altered and hostile environment. Davros was the architect of this. "NuHu" is a towering edifice of retrospective continuity. It will be forced to remain so in order to retrieve the vital cornerstones and pillars of the show. The relationship of living beings to technology and survival is part of life and the implications raised by the future possibilities of this is huge. This goes way beyond Dr Who. It is a vital ingredient of Science Fiction itself. More importantly still. Science Fact!!!
For Big Finish fans/potential fans: Big Finish is having a 'Flash Sale'/discount for Davros audio stories until 19th November/tomorrow (23 : 59 UK time).
Tv includes disabled people to make them mire inclusive then you don't include them for fear that they'll offend wheelchair users 🙄
You just can't win, can you?
The same old boring argument. "But, what if? We're scared that?
Enough! To hell with fear of offending someone and just write a good story! Life isn't here to accommodate all our wants and needs no matter how much we whine about it
After having watched this sketch I have to say that I kind of liked how people can take from it what they want. This could fit in with the currently known canon in so many ways. It is very tongue in cheek, but still gives hints of foreshadowing and danger. In my humble opinion, RTD has pulled a blinder with this one, being able to cater for many different fan theories, whilst still adding that frisson of danger and intrigue.
I'm annoyed about the lack of credits, I know people have been trying to work out the music if its Murray or not! For the voice on the tannoy, has Nyder ever appeared in Big Finish? Because it could be whoever played them then?
Hate to be the one but I hate davros and I think post his second appearance each appearance after was more and more rubbish and really his new who stories are just Nonsense I think the best Dalek stories are all the pre Genesis of the Daleks as there not merely extras in there own stories with my favourite Dalek story being Planet of the Daleks and really the only fun Davros story is destiny of the Daleks even if it's kinda a tonal whiplash with the bleakness and the goofiness of the Terry Nation Script rewritten by Douglas Adams.
You can't change davros if he's saying what I think he's saying he's totally off if you are playing davros before he changes fine, but don't mess with the show any more its getting a bit much
feel like its more lazy now with davros, instead of a the iconic look, hes just some boring guy. Even though the actor did a great job.
I dont mind and except some changes but this a step too far i totally disagree with Russell on this you can't compare real life events to a fantasy show i'm sorry changing Davros is like changing Darth Vader's look no, no, no he's wrong and he's got no right to do this this is not his creation this is Terry Nation's creation i don't care what the political reason behind this is this is Davros this is his iconic look and to diminish that is wrong.
Is the BBC going to pull all old Davros merchandise? from its own web shop??? I think not
6:23 _"Julian Bleach's Davros doesn't feel like a compromised portrayal"_ - Whilst I wouldn't say Bleach didn't give it 100%, I got the distinct impression that his delivery was of a tongue-in-cheek, almost camp, variety. It wasn't flat-out "pantomime villain", but it wasn't far off.
Yeah I agree with you regarding Davros and I think it makes sense since this is pre-Genesis, so I'm absolutely fine with it! And Julian Bleach is SO ggood, I'm really glad they brought him back!
I love that you can still see 13 in 14 "60 minutes ago I was this really brilliant woman" that really made me smile! Loved it, this was a lot of fun! And I think it's really cool that this leads directly on from Liberation of the Daleks (which is also canonical!)
Only a week to go until the 60th specials start and I cannot wait!
I wonder if any of the production team who were "consulted" have disablites ~ though it's highly doubtful.
What about the disabled kids who love Davros as was?
Yeah the whole 'not a comedy skit', and then it is, was silly. But, it was fine. It wasn't massive, but it was fun to see and gives a bit of an introduction to the 14th.
I feel like this interview and his previous comments about younger television writers he's mentoring only using TV to push their message without the love of TV just shows how it's probably not his decision or he didn't bring it up first.
He talks a lot in the plural sense of "we" "talked about this" etc
I don't even think it was specifically an issue that fans or even disability advocates had about the show anyway - it's definitely a trend in media but I feel like it's just there to stir up controversy that no one really was bothered about before
I thought this was in the past so him just walking around makes sense
I hate to state the blindingly obvious, but aren't all Daleks wheelchair users?
I honestly liked almost nothing about the skit. And I find it ironic that Russell cared so much about the portrayal of disability but didn't think twice about casting a non-white person as a N@zi allegory. I thought the set looked cheap, it was overacted very unconvincingly (Julian Bleach was great though), and I don't like how it contradicts Genesis. Davros had literally only just invented the dalek's gun at the beginning of that story, so what he becomes disabled and scarred, and has a third eye implanted in his head in the maximum week between this and showing the gun to Gharman? Or was he just never disabled now?
As a woke lefty snowflake, I totally understand the desire to avoid the problematic history of relating disability to villainy, but there's a very easy way around that. JUST DON'T WRITE ABOUT DAVROS. There, solved the problem. Witch's familiar was a brilliant thematic ending for his character anyway, so unless you really think you can do something new with him, which I doubt, what's the point in digging him up again?
(I liked the Nyder easter egg)
The last time we saw Davros in cannon he was messing around with regeneration energy; I'd be willing to except the explination that Deveros used the regeneration energy he stole from the Doctor to regenerate himself a new body.
So they made him as a cross between Hitler and Mengele and also Hawking
Now I need to hear more about the Daleks fighting Dracula and Frankenstein's monster.
Watch "The Chase" from Season 2.
I think in this context for CIN it’s fine , but the permanent reimagining Russell seems to be implying is too oversensitive and I’ve seen wheelchair users at Comic-Cons in Davros cosplay and found it heartwarming , inclusive and cool as fck
My cousin's a wheelchair user, and always cosplays as Davros at cons because in her words "he's the greatest villain ever, and always getting reigned in by his creations".
She says she can't cosplay as him now because of RTD.
@@RealCelticGamerI hope she finds the courage to ignore RTD and cosplay anyway
I personally think new Davros looks awesome!
The same Russel who gave aliens IBS for laughs I'm sorry in not buying it. Julian bleach was fantastic in this and seeing Davros before his accident is extremely interesting but to undo such an iconic character because he doesn't personally believe in the character is tragic loss for dr who fans
"RTD did fart jokes in 2005 so he can't change a character in a prequel which fits into the canon!"
That's....that's such a strange train of thought.
i have no problem with it for a prequal story ide just like the character to remain the same in future stories. i guess I'm to overly defensive about it lol @@MrTARDIS
I’ve never once associated disability with evil. Some characters can be both. Doesn’t mean that just because they’re disabled then they’re evil.
If this decision is purely for the Children in Need sketch then I understand but hopefully they don’t completely retcon Davros’ character.
Didn’t really notice that Tennant was playing 13 in this mini episode. Nice touch. Would be interesting since the doctor has returned to an old face and this being the first time he’s done this in his pov, The curator is later in his timeline. What if the Fourteenth Doctor has small moments of personality traits from past incarnations in his performance. I think it’d cool to have patchworked Doctor.
if this is davros pre genesis of the daleks, then no problem. if we never see disfigured davros again then we’re gonna have a huge problem
in what universe does disabled = bad people? bit of a weird take.
What the hell Russell there was no need to change Davros at all what a joke
There's a shocking amount of drama on RUclips from what's a charity minisode
Davros being like this fore the special? No issue, that simply means his accident is wary recent when we see him in Genesis of the Daleks, fore all we know it happens RIGHT after this scene. Him being like this in FUTURE appearances that ARENT Flashbacks to this time period....difficult. I wouldnt mind but then have there be a reason fore it, dont just have him suddnly be like this, give us a explanation as to why he suddnly has two arms, and his lower bodey back.
Capaldi Regeneration Energy. Easy lore explanation. Can also go Classic Who route, he was a head a Dalek Emperor body for a serial, then appears later as normal and no explanation is provided, it's left to the viewers to decide.
@@chazo1367 Acually the decapitatet head was not real, it was a rouse to mislead poeple and waste any potential assasination attempts on the head and not his acual bodey. And when he was the Dalek Emperor he still had his bodey, it now was just inside a more fancy looking travel machine then his regular chair. But yeah, saying his bodey regeneratet from when the Doctor gave him regeneration energy would be the best explanation. Heck it would only take a single line. "Suprised? You should not be, after all you yourself know better then anyone the potential of Regeneration energy" And voila.
@@neptuneplaneptune3367 Been awhile since I've seen the serial, didn't remember about the fake head and hidden body. Thanks!
Not difficult just Russell being woke as per its pathetic
@@leejones8582 unironically using the word woke just invalidates your argument.
I remember an old "Little Britain" sketch with Lou and Andy, where some hooligans refer to Andy as "Davros". I daresay RTD remembers it too.
...at which point Andy wallops them
The Witch's Familiar was broadcast in 2015, not 2016. 🙂
That was Mawaan Rizwan?!
How did I not realise that. I thought I recognised him, but I brushed it off.
Mawaan Rizwan more like Mawaan Rizz-wan
I mean it’s empowering that a galactic badass villain was crippled by war whose wheelchair design is reminiscent of his equally mutilated genetic remains of his people the Kaleds and their tiny mobile travel Mobile machine. You have to give the disabled agency to occupy all kinds of roles. Other than that, it was a good way to satirise fascism which is so prevalent in these times. Someone be on the look out if NATO, Russia and Israel develop their own mark III travel machine
they really didn't do anything to Davos, they simply went back in time before he was deformed. It is a show about time travel afterall.
He's referring to this change being made permanent
@@robbiemartin9312It will change based on whomever the writer and showrunner is at the time. Get over it.
@@dirrdevil you act like I'm annoyed about it? And I mean permanent for RDT2 era
@@robbiemartin9312 no one referred to making that retcon.
@@fragalot rtd literally said and explained why davros shouldn't be portrayed as an amputee. Do you really think he will go back on what he said and put him back in the chair?
Changing Davros as a prequel to "Genesis of the Daleks" is reasonable. For 50 years (!) I had assumed Davros had been injured and used his chair as the basis for the Dalek travel machine. Now it's the other way around--he was injured and used the Dalek technology to save his own life. I can live with that.
Changing it for Children in Need, ok, but then why have Davros in the Daleks at all? There are other creatures that could have been used as antagonists. Why fall back on the Daleks? Issue avoided.
But if they're going for this to be all future Davros appearances...no, I can't get behind that. Davros in the chair is iconic. Furthermore, the chair and the prosthetics are the reason Davros has been recast 3 times over the past decades, including his appearance the first time RTD ran the show.
And in the larger context, while I am normally not one of those people who rails against wokeism, it seems RTD is erring on the side of caution WRT virtue signaling. First, he wouldn't let David Tennant regenerate into Jodie Whittaker's costume because of some convoluted argument about trans people that, quite honestly, I don't remember. Now he wants Davros out of the chair because he doesn't want wheel chair users portrayed as evil even though the number of Doctor Who fans who saw Davros' first reveal in "Genesis of the Daleks" as an indictment of wheelchair users is zero.
He's getting ridiculous. I hope the forthcoming shows are not worse.
Originally, he was injured first, created his life support chair, experimented on the Kaleds, used the same technology as his chair to create the mark III traveling machine, then decreed the Daleks would be created "in his likeness".
This retcons Genesis of the Daleks, and not in a good way.
I agree with the decision for Children In Need night but I don't see any reason to never again feature damaged Davros.
I was on board with showing Davros in this way. I went off it really quickly when RTD gave his reasoning in the Unleashed episode. I thought was more offensive to disabled people to be acting like they aren't individuals who can have completely different personalities. Yes someone might be a nice person while another person might be horrible. Acting like we can't have a bad guy be disabled is just ableist by treating them like delicate things that need to be babied instead of as human beings that are no different from able bodied people and can equally be good or bad
Literally the majority of bond villains have disabilities/disfigurements. There IS a trend. People just want to ignore it.
That's not what Russell is saying. He's not saying disabled people can't be villains. He's saying that historically there's been an association between disabled people and evil. He wanted Doctor Who not to be involved with that stereotype anymore, especially when it's for Children in Need a charity that helps kids with disabilities.
@@brewster_4 I feel like the whole thing is the thing that makes Davros so evil is the fact that he was disfigured so much by the war which reflects how he has become barely even Kaled more like the monsters he creates than the people he is meant to be helping. He has thus not really got anything to do with disabilities as he is more to do with themes as he doesn't feel like a wheelchair user but more a halfway point to a dalek. He hated the Thals so much because of what they did to him.
@@cillianennis9921 The *reason* he's disfigured doesn't actually matter in this context. The fact that he is at all is what feeds into the disabled villain trope.
@@cillianennis9921 That is a thematic interpretation, but that doesn't change the fact that what Davros basically has is a space wheel chair.
RTD is entitled to his feelings about Davros as a representation of disability but I just find his thinking misguided. 1) Davros was not in a wheelchair 2) The Daleks were modelled on the technology Davros built for himself. 3) Terry Nation happily wrote a positive role for a character in a wheelchairs (ie in The Dalek Invasion of Earth). There is a long tradition of not representing wheelchair users as evil. Rather, such representations draw on the trope of one part of the body compensating or leading to a change in another. So characters who are "brainy" are shown as having atropied or ineffective limbs eg The Mekon (Dan Dare), Charles Xavier (The X-Men) and so on. As a teen , I didn't associate Davros with wheelchair users, I didn't call wheelchair users "Oy! Davros!" or "He's a bit of a Davros!", nor did I grab wheelchair users and role them into ponds as if on Exxelon and I certainly didn/t shove a plunger in their faces while intoning "Mercy, I don't know the meaning of the word!" If wheelchair users are no longer to be portrayed as bad or evil, RTD is restricting the roles they can play! There has been no relation between Davros being in a wheelchair and the fact he is evil.
Wrong.
(1) Davros is in what's essentially a wheelchair, and you're a bad faith actor if you can't accept this.
(2) Who cares?
(3) No one is saying Terry Nations portrayed all people in wheelchairs as evil. Watch the RTD clip again, but pay attention this time.
(4) Good for you for not being an utter piece of shit then, but you are being one now because you don't understand that negative media tropes exist regardless if you buy into them or not.
@@dirrdevil If Davros is in a wheel chair (he isn't) and the Daleks are based on him (including his central red eye) then they are representations of people with disabilities . This is confirmed by the way, in the past, they encountered a disabiling environment. The Daleks are an even more extreme example of the brain with atrophied limbs. So now we have and able bodied man creating an evil race of characters with disabilities.
The livestream when this 7:54 was discovered will forever go down in history as one of the funniest mr tardis livestream moments
Wow this comment section is so much more respectful compared to some others :)
Gotta say I love the cute details of the Dalek in this short. The way it's eyestalk just bobs up and down, looking at the 14th Doctor as they lock eyes is charming, and the shot of it looking down as it's plunger arm raises up, almost like it's proudly showing Davros it's new appendage is great
Is it me or do I wish to see future episodes with Daleks having the metal claw from the beginning of the story?
I assumed the plunger was from another Dalek - what's more likely for the doctor to have right by the front door of his Tardis - spare parts from a Dalek or plumbing equipment?
@@HandlesTheCyberman It is now my head canon that the Doctor uses a spare plunger from a Dalek as his plumbing equipment, ty
I also thought this was supposed to be the character prior to disfigurement or some wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff and I love seeing Julian Beach's actual face anyway because it was brilliant and I didn't mind the comedic stuff because I love the fact that Russell brings that to the table along with the tears sometimes but his statements about purposefully making the character not disabled add some retcon with no narrative reason same with the whole costume thing we've not been given a narrative reason and he is giving interviews saying he's doing it because he's trying to remove an evil disabled character and also to keep people from making fun of a man and woman's clothes by removing them from View. I find it disgusting ableist and gender non-conforming phobic bulshit. He can have his reasons but he should have just kept his big Gob shut and left them for story reasons. I wish I wouldn't have watched Unleashed because I love this special and it really got me fired up for the festivities in the coming week. The sad fact is that Russell doesn't even realize what he's doing. I'm gay disabled and Indigenous so I know all about inclusivity Erasure discrimination etcetera and I can tell you right now this sort of patronizing crap does not fly with the majority of the community of disabled Doctor Who fans. So I'm going to stick that this is pre-accident and lavish much praise end adoration on you for saying that yes it cleared up one thing the Doctor poops and that just made my day and I've laughed more than I have since this morning after seeing the special and before I saw Russell's patronizing comments when I started ranting up and down across the internet about the stupid decision that Russell made without really thinking it through. I've written this only halfway through your video but I promise I won't come back to write for more because I am pretty done at this point and hanging on to that laughter you just gave me so thank you again.
Yeah, I think RTD certainly means well and I like that he "changed" past Davros for the charity, but (a big but) taking away his disability just doesn't sit well with me? Because disabilities just can't be taken away (and I know it's not it, but it almost feels like he's being rewarded for being evil)? This is coming from an ambulatory wheelchair user (tho more full time than not), I don't know what to think tbh 🙈 Same with the clothes, I don't understand why it'd be strange for the Doctor to wear them? Jodie also wore Peter's clothes, I didn't think about it until he mentioned it, I chalked it up to his regeneration being different 🤔
@@mikaelastefkovaI still think it's all part of a plot by the Toymaker. Maybe he chose this particular Doctor to play with
@@SamuelBlack84 The clothes... or him being David Tennant again? I think that the fact he looks like the tenth Doctor is for this reason too! Or at least that's my current running theory haha
Edit: Also maybe because he said he "doesn't want to go", the Toymaker wants to give him what he wanted, but make it so he'll regret such wish? We'll se! ✨
Seeing many people complaining about this change online saying "It's unfair if a disabled character couldnt be evil". And I feel like they listen again to what RTD actually says in the interview clip... The issue is not just that an evil character uses a wheelchair, the problem is that "disability has had a VERY long tradition of being associated with evil".
Of course, in an ideal world, any good or evil character should have an equal chance of being disabled, but that's not the current state of play, and they're talking as if it is. Hopefully that's where we'll be in 50 years time. But right now we're at a point where for most of the past century (particularly since 1950, when film & TV really became what they are now), disability has been a strong, deeply embedded coding for evilness, weirdness and otherness (e.g. see Ian Fleming). So, right now, the balance needs redressing first. And for RTD, as a writer, who can only effect his tiny corner of the global media landscape, feeding into that stereotype by keeping the legendary Hitler-analogue villan as disabled (in very human ways) isn't helpful.
Exactly this. Doctor Who fans are children, no matter their age. Absolute babies.
You redress the balance by making disabled protagonists (which RTD hasn't done), and stopping writing about Davros. You don't just retcon Davros to not be disabled anymore.
@@bookswithike3256 Except he isn't being retconned. He still had the accident. He can easily be explained in later appearances lore wise because of stolen regeneration energy from Capaldi. People need to remember these things, we haven't seen him since that episode and the energy can likely restore him with how much was taken. The show is about accepting and embracing changes, changing Davros later with a lore reason works just fine, they aren't going back and saying he was never in the chair.
Actually, this gave me a bit more context on the RTD/Davros controversy. It makes more sense to me now. I don't agree that Davros was ever seen that way, but c'est la vie.
davies: davros is essentially a wheelchair user and its important not to associate disability with evil
moffat: lol wouldn't it be funny if the doctor pulled davros out of his chair and rolled around in it?
Also Davies: Max Capricorn and John Lumic... and possibly Cassandra and The Face of Boe, come to think of it
I don't know if anyone else feels the same way but I had small issue with Julian Bleach's performance. I thought it was a bit weird that he plays Davros the exact same way before he gets his injuries. The way Davros speaks and moves always to me at least came off as him struggling because of his injuries. His slow, raspy voice and frail hands gestures always came off as if that was the case so it was a bit weird that Davros here does the same thing but before he is injured. I wish he played it just a bit differently like how Terry Malloy did in IDavros in Big Finish. I know it's a quick Children in Need so I'm probably asking for too much. I just wish since they bothered to bring the actor back they could let him play with the role a little more
No offense but as a very big doctor who fan I quite like davros's new look it gives me nazi general vibes and it makes sense cause I swear davros was based on hitler
1:14 Why is there a random clip of Newt Scamander?
There was a small doctor who and fantastic beasts crossover once. I think it was for some ad
The absolute meltdown the Davros change has resulted in on Twitter makes this whole thing worth it. Peak Doctor Who fandom.
I know. Have you seen Ian Levine’s response to Russell’s comments about Davros in the episode? It’s something.
This was what made me realise that Doctor who was well and truly back. Not the trailers, not the promotional material, not the release dates, but Doctor who fans complaining about the current showrunner. It’s like it never left.
Unleashed played up to that big time. Destination: Skaro and Unleashed both seemed to be parodies of the real thing. Some gags were subtle, others make a sledgehammer look subtle. Neither were intended to be taken seriously, except to get people talking about it!
Most fandoms are toxic gutters of people with nothing better to do than cry about progress and have an idealized dogma in their minds that can not be challenged as their whole life is based on it.
@@bladersmosh RTD has always been a master at getting his stuff talked about. Remember the ending of Stolen Earth and how much hype the regeneration their generated for the whole week? Everyone was talking about it and who is replacing Tennant mid two parter like that. People were speculating and losing their minds. He is good at drumming up attention.
the portrayal of davao’s also works as it is in the past and we can possibly say it is before he ended up as we know him. if they did one later in his timeline like that it would be complicated narratively.
I wouldn't mind if Davros stayed like this for (the majority of) RTD's run
I love both Rusty’s thoughtful approach to this, & the fact that we get to see Julian Bleach without prosthetics!