How to NOT make Quicklime - What am I doing wrong? (episode 3.2)
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- Опубликовано: 31 май 2024
- Clam shells can be turned into quicklime (calcium oxide) by burning them at 800 degrees Celsius. Quicklime has many industrial applications which interest me, especially for making cement mortar, to nixtamalize corn, and as a soil amendment. However, as I found out today, making quicklime isn't as easy as online tutorials make it seem.
My social media links:
Instagram @chadzuberofficial
Facebook @chadzuber
Key moments:
00:00 Introduction
00:43 Collecting clams
01:31 Collecting manzanita wood
04:53 Super hot kiln fire to make quicklime
06:21 Testing the shells for calcium oxide
07:21 Grinding shells into powder
08:25 Adding powder to compost and conclusion
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a) Semi closing the top of the shoot with tiles (with gaps) will aid reaching the goal temp and heat retention. b) Making a stockpile of charcoal to use as others have suggested. c)If issues still remain a primative clay incased blower(human powered fan) might help reach the temp for the desired cook time. d)Keep applying that old Chad Zuber patience, you got this champ!
Patience! Patience! PATIENCE!... I'm running out of patience!... But I will try, try, TRY AGAIN! Thanks for your tips.
Buen consejo
@@ChadZuberAdventures patience is also my weakness 😀🖖👍
Primitivo techologe é um canal que pode ajudar bastante.❤❤
I've been in your place before. I tried the exact same method (except the wood used ) but I didn't get anywhere. I did some testing and finally managed to do it after making several changes: 1) I made a grate in the middle of the kiln on top of which I put alternating layers of wood and shells (shells were not placed in container and were just thrown in). 2) I started the fire from the top of the kiln 3) I reacted the shells with water right after the fire was settling down. Sadly, I don't have any scientific knowledge on why my method worked but I hope I could be of help. Thank you for making videos and inspiring this community! If you have any questions please let me know
Thanks for sharing your experience. This has been such a frustrating task. I've read about it, watched videos, and failed three times already. I'm going to start over and make a different kiln. I've seen so many different techniques. Did you put anything under the grate? Or did you just leave that space for air flow?
Great calls👍
@@ChadZuberAdventures is there really no nearby limestone you cannot use instead???
Fantastic idea watch john plant and primitive skills. If you watch them you will never fail again@@ChadZuberAdventures
@@ChadZuberAdventures No I left that area empty for the air to flow. Another thing I would advise is it run the fire for about 1 hour and 30 minutes maybe even 2 hours ,if there is enough wood around, to make sure the shells get calcined thoroughly. I was faced with that same frustration as you are for a long time, as all things primitive it's a rocky road. It's up to us , humans , to eventually fight beyond those roadblocks and use the laws of this world for our needs
So me and a buddy have made primitive quicklime which we used for concrete twice but we've only used wood ash to do so. As far as I know there should be no practical difference if you use ash or shells but do keep that in mind. I noticed a few things I'd improve. Before I list those I want to front them with a warning - DO NOT handle your shells with bare hands after firing! Your hands have moisture and chemical burns are nasty which will ruin your working day!. Learned that one the hard way by loosing a whole weekend of possible work due to massive chemical burns.
1. Get your fire off the ground. Make some sort of a grate or just 3-4 clay bars that you can put your fire on top. This will make a world of difference. This does mean you will need something to hold the pot, but we just used two big rocks for that one.
2. Fire for a bit longer. In our experience we fired for 1.5 hours but less might still work. If you can fire for 1.5 hours do that for your first win and then experiment and adjust.
3. Blocking your chimney a bit will help keep temperature in. If you have some big bricks or tiles prepared for something you can use those. We didn't have to do that but our chimney had a way smaller diameter and was tapered towards the top.
I will also go contrary to something that has been suggested which is using charcoal. In order to properly use charcoal with your setup you need a blower of some sort and if you have a blower you don't need charcoal for this to work. Save your charcoal if you ever want to get your hands dirty with metallurgy - this trip I haven't taken.
Looking forward to the next video where you crush the quicklime process! And remember don't handle with bare hands! I cannot stress this enough it's really nasty.
Thank you so much for this detailed account of your experience. Don't worry, when I shot the video I had already tested a shell the night before. I used stick tongs to pull it out of the ashes and put it in water. So I already knew that the experiment failed. Plus, the shells didn't turn white. It was clear it didn't work. But that is a good point that I should have put in the video. But I'm used to getting injured all the time anyway. Actually, getting injured by handling quicklime would make for a better video anyway, right? Hahaha!... I'm going to do your suggestions. I'm surprised that you don't think the charcoal is a good idea. I really don't have an opinion on that since I've never used charcoal before but you're the first one to remark contrary to charcoal. Most of the examples I've seen online didn't use a blower. In one attempt I did use a blower and it didn't work either. I really appreciate your suggestions and I will definitely be trying them out. Thanks again!
@@ChadZuberAdventures on the charcoal part it's not that I don't think it's a good idea it's mostly that you shouldn't really need it. If you increase the firing time and get the fire off the ground that should give you the results you need.
We're getting some nicer weather here so I'll also be doing a firing over the weekend with some pottery and ash following our procedure.
Getting injured is never what we want to see but yeah the warning being in there would be cool. Take care and enjoy.
I recommend you to use charcoal. Given how your shells break, you must be close to the right temperature to succeed
I've never used charcoal in a fire. I will need to learn this process.
Even though, you did get your desired conclusion, you will be learning more from your “failure”. This is how life is. Your soil amendments will be successful. I’m looking forward to seeing your garden grow.
Story of my life. I'm putting a lot of time and effort into this year's garden. Hoping for a good harvest!
@@ChadZuberAdventures I appreciate you and your efforts, mi amigo.
@@tomasperez8595 Gracias amigo!
I've seen Primitive Technology do a similar thing. In his video, he also burns the shell to make quick lime. If I didn't get it wrong, while he was burning the shell, he visually checked the temperature through the color of the shells. You may need to observe the shell's color during burning and ensure your oven can reach the right temperature.
I couldn't see the shells until the fire had burned down more but they weren't red. I will watch his video about this again.
You need 900-1000° C says Google.. so you need a good yellow 1100° /white flame/ 1300-1500° -or blue flame the hottest 1400-1650° 🔥.
Maybe Chad could by a thermometer (either a pyrometer or a real thermometer) to check the temperaure. However, I think above 1200 Celsius only a pyromether will work. But it requires visibility, which is not always given. A Thermoteter (maybe PT100) may even smelt if it is too hot.
Or maybe he could change the fuel, from wood to charcoal?
@@foxmulder7616 Google lies! 😄 So much different information out there. I've read scientific journals that say 800 C is optimal for calcination. I didn't measure the temperature. I was just trying to get it as hot as possible, and I failed.
Making quicklime requires the source calcium carbonate (Limestone, chalk, calcite or shell) to be at orange/red heat for an "hours" time frame. If it works, the burnt material will be noticeably lighter than the pre-burn material. It does work with shells. Keep trying! with enough heat and time, you'll get there!
More heat and more time! Thank you!
Very interesting. I'm not sure how else you can make the quick lime. The soil you fed with organic matter does look good though. Cheers, Chad!
Well, at least the soil is looking good! Thanks!
Thanks for the years of Bushcraft in the 'Chaparral Californias.' Your channel is unique for the type of lands that I also live in. 👍
I'm glad you are enjoying it.
I'm such a fan! This series has not changed its essence from the beggining, and keeps getting better.
Thanks!
you can use wood ash to raise the ph of the soil, for the shells you should use more wood and let the fire burn for a longer time so that you get very hot amber
Okay, thanks. I appreciate this information.
@@ChadZuberAdventuresmaybe also check that there is better air flow, if you use somekind of grid so that the amber is not on the floor and ashes can fall through might help to raise the temperature. I also think that the amber part is very important since you want to ad oxygen to the shells, as long as the fire is burning it will burn the oxygen.
@@donglefuirongl7994 Yes, I'm going to build a new kiln and put a grate in it so that the fire is above the ground thus allowing air to freely flow beneath it.
Make coal out of the wood you have. John Plant has the best content on making coal the way Chad Zuber would want to make it. Make a taller stack. When you make a new stack make a layer for coal/wood to burn and ashes to fall. This will allow for more air. More air more fire. More hot. There is a guy in northern Vietnam. Primitive skills I think is the name. Hit him up. He also has been developing one piece of property over the past 5 years or so. In a very similar fashion as you except he does not have a truck or partake in commerce in any traditional sense. When he wanted to go to the beach for the first time he walked over 150 miles for it. All that to make some salt and see the ocean for the first time and walk back with it. I watch the three of you very consistently. Imagine if you guys knew each other. Best of luck with the next attempt. We are with you
I should move to Vietnam so that I could actually afford to do this.... I've seen so many variations on how to make quicklime. Of course, I'm probably the only one that has posted a "failure video", but that is my reality most of the time. I'm going to try making coal. I'm also going to make another kiln because this one is apparently only good for pottery and biochar. Maybe it will work for making charcoal. But anyway, I'm going to try and identify (with my very limited working brain space) the best, and simple, design for a kiln to make quicklime. Wish me luck!
He posts his fails all the time like when his house collapsed and when he planted a literal mountain of land rice and no rice grew. His fails are heartbreaking. I love your channel for how informative and honest you are @@ChadZuberAdventures I tell everyone about the three of you. Looking forward to your next adventure!
Love the work here Tarzan you putting that work in keep going strong :)
Thanks, will do!
@@ChadZuberAdventures you're welcome can't wait to see you make your next vid
May God always protect you MR. Chad. Aamiin
Thanks!
As usual, VERY enjoyable video. Thank you Chad!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Collect all the ash from the new kiln, make round pellets with water, dry it and then fire it for minimum 2 hours. Like you did when you tried to make tortillas. But the ash needs to be rich in oxygen which it gets in the kiln, not the ash from rocket mass heater. The pellets needs to be orange red hot.
I will try this again. Have you used this technique before?
@@ChadZuberAdventures No. But Primitive Technology has used this technique to make wood ash cement and even built a hut using clay bricks and cement. He's still using this technique to date since it's the most effective way to make huge amounts of "lime" 👍
@@ChadZuberAdventures Oh, and you will also need to put clay plates or something to cover the top of the kiln to make it retain as much heat as possible.
@@reydar820 I looked into this technique once before and I read that it also depends on the kind of wood that is used. Someone also told me that the bark of trees has more calcium in it. I will just have to try and find out.
One method I've seen done that worked very well was first layer a bunch of fuel wood or charcoal then make a layer of shells, then layer of fuel then shells and so on until the top of your furnace. Place a cover of sorts on top to make sure you get it hot enough or keep air moving to keep temp up and just burn till it's all ashes at then bottom and scoop out the calcified shells from the ashes.
But you were pretty close in your attempt. Just need a little higher temp
I'm seeing a pattern in the comments that suggest using a lot more fuel and to burn it longer. Should I cover the furnace completely? Or should I just reduce the size of the opening at the top?
@@ChadZuberAdventures I would just suggest reduction in size. Try to get the temp as high as possible for the fuel you are burning
@@garrettmillsap Will do! 👍
@@ChadZuberAdventures good luck. I've seen lots of great advice I know you will perfect it this time around!
Great video again!
Interesting video once again 👍
Another way to stabilize the pH of the soil: In a container with enough water, put the white ash produced by your oven and fireplace, stir very well and then let it settle, then remove only the liquid and let it boil until it evaporates, you will obtain potassium carbonate, a pH stabilizer that can also be used to make natural soap. You will need a lot of ash, you can use the liquid without boiling too and even add the ash to the soil without any additional procedure
Yes, I added ash two years ago and ash was also thrown into my compost pile last year. The quicklime isn't so much for the garden. I really want it for other projects.
Привет Чад! Отличный ролик.
У меня нет опыта изготовления негашённой извести, но есть идея почему так получилось. Мне кажется, в твоём камине слишком большое верхнее отверстие, жар слишком быстро уходил. Может быть если сделать его менее широким - всё получится?
Удачи в экспериментах, Чад!
Спасибо. Да, некоторые другие люди сделали то же самое наблюдение. Думаю, сделаю еще одну печь.
Primitive Techologe é um canal que pode ajudar bastante.❤❤❤
Sim
The temperature inside a lime kiln must be held at over 900°C (1,650°F) for at least two hours per kg of calcium carbonate to calcine it fully into quicklime (a kg weighs 2.2lbs, so a pound of calcium carbonate might convert quicker than a kg, but I would use the same time/mass just to be sure). This is red/orange heat for calcium carbonate (noticeably brighter than a cherry-red heat). I hope this helps!
Yeah, that was probably my biggest mistake - the time. Thanks for the help!
Молодец Чад. удачи тебе во всем.
Спасибо.
If it had worked a thermal reaction would have happened when you touched quicklime with your unprotected fingers, use gloves if you're going to handle quicklime. The lime in the burnt, ground shells would have been available to plant roots just at a far slower rate than you were hoping. To get quicklime from shells you'd need to close your kiln in (it's only really a chimney at the moment). Give it a small chimney and a door. Pack your wood in as densely as you can but leaving enough air for it to still light. Fire it fully and keep stoking it until the core remains white hot for an hour or so. Then close down both the door and the chimney and leave it to cook for a day or so. When cool rake it out but keep you skin away from it until it is fully slaked.
Thanks for this concise description. I've seen so many different techniques to make quicklime. I've seen it handled with bare hands too, but carefully.
From the brittleness of the shells at the end you're probably close. I'm not an expert just a gal on the internet that likes to learn. I think (based on other methods I've seen) you may want to 1) start your fire from the top of the kiln instead of the bottom. 2) Alternate layering your shells and wood. The layers should be pretty even. 3) BIG MAYBE your kiln and the bottom opening that may be too big. Try using a shorter, more narrow kiln. A narrower space with allow the burning material to be stacked more evenly. The amount of space in your current kiln and the large pieces of wood used means the layering doesn't really happen because the gaps of space are too big so the shells just fell onto the floor. A narrower kiln may also help with temperature control and adding extra wood from the top as needed. You can actually build a quick version of a kiln by soaking long grasses in clay mud and stacking the soaked bundled to form a chute with an opening at the top and a small opening for airflow at the bottom.
Thanks for your observations. I'm going to make another kiln just for this. I'll make it like a rocket, with a grill to keep the fire above ground and allow good airflow below and a small opening at the top.
Hi! Quick lime is good, but also have some negative influence on soil. Better use potash - it's make pH higher and akt as fertiliser
Thanks for that info. I mainly just want to make quicklime for other purposes.
Good idea my friend
Just found your channel this weekend...binge watched almost all of your videos - good stuff...
I think you have the answer to your lime problem - looks like more heat and more time will do it.
Off topic, have you considered weaving a gill net that you could stretch across the stream at a narrow area? Passive fishing might be the way to go.
Also, I’ve seen how ancient desert peoples in the Middle East used to carve cisterns into the rock floors for collection. I’m sure that’s really difficult to do, but have you considered some type of rainwater collection device?
Welcome to my channel!
Yes, I'm sure I need more heat. Easily said, huh?
And to let it cook more time.
Yeah, I want to make a bigger net for fishing. It's all a matter of time. Weaving a fishing net does take an immensely long time.
Carving cisterns in the rock here would be quite a big job. I haven't tried but it wouldn't be easy. I do have other ideas for collecting water. One is to build a dam in the wash with rock and clay. The other is to make several large clay water containers and have funnels to catch and direct the rainwater into them.
the compost looks very rich, either way. white wood ash should suffice for lowering ph. if you're set on using the shells, maybe a narrower but taller or longer furnace with a smaller inlet and chimney would get hotter as it'd "force" air more aggressively and make a stronger draft. thicker walls would also would help retain more heat. you could also try using the charcoal you made through incomplete combustion by starting a fire and smothering it with dirt as fuel; you'd probably start a fire as normal with whatever wood then feed it as much charcoal as you can while gauging the heat by look/feel through the inlet. i'm not 100% certain on any of this, but i hope it gives you some ideas.
Thanks for the ideas. Lots of people have shared their ideas. I am taking notes and will implement the various ideas until it works.
@@ChadZuberAdventures happy to contribute!
Use warm water to slake the shells, not cold or room temp. Got this from mud building blog.
The water actually was warm. I read the same mud building blog I think.
A very interesting video about natural life is happening here, people can live independently out there but still need the help of others to be able to survive, but not with my friend, this is truly an extraordinary struggle for life, everything she uses for her daily survival from nature is truly extraordinary. 👍
based on the color of the shells when you pulled them out of the kiln, you didnt reach the calcification temperature, but was very close to it. I recommend a blower/fan/bamboo blowpipe to force more air into the kiln to raise the temp. A tile or clay kiln cap with narrower chimney can also help with retaining heat inside the kiln instead of losing it straight out the top. My experience has been entirely temperature instead of time baking in order to get the reaction to make the calcium carbonate convert to calcium oxide.
Interesting... So many different opinions here... Many said that I need to burn the fire for at least a few hours. I have done the same thing with a blower once before and it failed then too. I think reducing the opening of the kiln may be a big help though. I'm going to make a new kiln for this.
Even building the kin taller and with a smaller opening below will create a strong natural draft. Hotter and longer is what the process needs....observe and keep the shells glowing red for a couple hours.
a furnace would be a good start. add fuel into a lower area, and have a grate to hold the shells above the flames. this lets you cook them for longer. adding height to the furnace to allow more air to be drawn through the fuel for a hotter fire, would be the next step. if you still cant get them hot enough for long enough, charcoal is the next step. burns far hotter than any wood you would add. anything more, means forced air.
I think I am going to try charcoal.
Yeah! A furnace design with a separated burn chamber would help a bit with this project and future ones, like clay firing.
@@AaronC. I'm looking at different designs today.
I’m curious too..I own a crushed clam shell business on the east coast and want to know what else I can do with it other than putting it on driveways. Be cool if it can be an addition to making concrete or brick.
Well, wait until I am successful in this endeavor so you don't have to repeat my mistakes.
You could also make fertilizer! React the clam shells with an acid, like sulfuric (be careful) and you'll get a "pseudo-phosphate" which is pretty good for plants.
(If you do try it, pls research a bit more about it just so that it is safe!)
@@AaronC. I don't think I will be doing that experiment anytime soon though but thanks for the idea.
Wow what a patience to do what you do!
Mr. John Plant from Primitive Technology did once an experiment with shells that seem to have worked. Maybe if you check his older videos it will give some insight. I would suggest you to close the entrances of the furnace for maximum heat and maybe making some charcoal. Patience is rewarding and you're doing great with that in mind.
I've seen that video and almost all his videos, as well as several other channels that did videos on this subject. I believe that there are two likely mistakes I made. One, using this kiln which was designed for firing pottery. Two, not burning the shells long enough.
Es que te equivocaste de piedra y la cal viva necesita de mucho tiempo de reposo, al punto de meses, donde entre más repose más fuerte es su efectividad en la construcción y alimentación (las tortillas llevan cal o piedra caliza, está se agrega para podré crear la masa de maíz, por hende las tortillas)
También se puede usar conchas marinas. No he encontrado piedra caliza aquí. En qué momento necesita el tiempo de reposo? No entiendo esa parte. Nunca vi eso en ninguna información.
@@ChadZuberAdventures hasta dónde tengo entendido se le debe dejar reposar para que pueda estar viva, te deseo suerte, si los cavernícolas pudieron, tu también.
@@ChadZuberAdventuresI think he means "rest" inside the water. Otherwise, calcium hydroxide just lying somewhere exposed to air will slowly turn back into calcium oxide.
@@AaronC. Okay, I saw that in a video. Thanks for the clarification.
so..pre heat/cook the shells (drive off the moisture). then cover the top of the kiln some to trap in more heat. and you can add a bellows to help some to.
Thanks for the tips.
did this with a brick rocket stove in my back yard. first, your not "baking" them long enough. second, your loosing too much heat too fast. make a rain cap. it'll also act as a heat reflector. or you could add a couple inches of stand off and put a pot, plate or shale/tile over the top to retain/condense the heat while having plenty of ventilation for exhaust.
Yep, you are right. I'm actually thinking to make a rocket stove just for this project.
Nice to see you 🖤
You too!
2:26 While I am not a chemist, by any stretch of the imagination, This scene here reminds me of John Plant's experimentations in much the same processes, albeit he is making Iron, however, when using wood to create high temperatures, you have to use a LOT of fuel to get there. I think you simply don't have enough fuel to get to temp, much less stay there at that temp. John has made clay housed human powered fans and a blower apparatus, and uses charcoal rather than raw wood. My two cents only, take it for what you will Chad.
Yeah, I just did it similar to firing pottery. I burn wood in a pottery firing for less than half an hour and use much less wood so I figured a little more time would be enough for calcination to occur. Now I've read from several people that it needs to burn for at least two hours. Some have said one hour, some have said an entire day.
Fire isnt hot enough. Make a bellows similar to a forge. Will be useful to make iron later from the iron rich soil around you. Sealing the top will also help.
I'm going to try that, thanks.
I am waiting for you to teach us how to make computers and technologies out there in the Bush, I am expecting this of you.
You'll probably need to wait about 10,000 years for that to happen.
hehehe@@ChadZuberAdventures
Many years ago I saw how they made quick lime by burning limestone in Greece.They used olive wood and it was fired constantly for 10 days. After that the quicklime was ready and made the exothermal reaction with water.
Ten days! That's crazy! All the online sources I've read never mentioned anything about how long to burn it.
Have to say that they where 30 kg heavy pieces of limestone so they needed time to burn thru.@@ChadZuberAdventures
@@ChadZuberAdventures
Once the shells glow a consistent red or yellow hot like coals, they should be ready to go.
You aren't burning huge chunks of limestone rock, so there's no need to burn it for ten days.
@@Garjahn Gotta look for the glow then.
Ok. Two problems that come to mind are kiln insulation and air intake; if the kiln had more mass (as in the walls were thicker, either with an insulator like ash or just plain mud with grass) then it'd retain more heat, and focus it in the interior.
That talked about, air intake could also be a problem: as more air comes in, more combustion happens, therefore more heat is produced. A bellow or small rotatory fan (check Primitive Technology's multiblade blower) could work to focus more oxygen into the fire.
Btw, for future tries on making calcium oxide, there's another source more available to you: bark. Or, more specifically, ashes from tree bark.
The theory is that the bark concentrates calcium oxide (the wood does also, but the bark specially) from the soil, so, if you burn it, and then calcinate the ashes (you could make small balls of ash so that they are a bit more maneuverable) you get calcium oxide.
Add water, and blam: calcium hydroxide.
In an earlier attempt somewhere else I put a fan in front of the intake to the kiln and it didn't work. Some have suggested reducing the opening at the top of the kiln and using charcoal instead of wood... Thanks for the idea about using tree bark. Pinyon pine bark is really the only readily available bark in this area. I may try that in the future.
@@ChadZuberAdventuresreducing the opening and using charcoal could very probably work. Good luck!
@@AaronC. I will continue trying....
Considering where you live, the soil is probably already alkaline. Its always a good idea to test the ph before changing it, because plants can be very sensitive to ph changes. Wood ash itself is alkaline by the way, so you could make the soil drastically more alkaline without even considering quicklime. There is also "primitive" ways to test ph, like using hydangea or spiderwort color changes, it's just less accurate than a modern ph test.
Yeah, I can really only guess at the pH and just try and see what happens. I've read that clay soils are more acidic. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not. I've read so many conflicting comments here regarding that.
Muy interesante e informativo vídeo,creó que deberías intentarlo en ese hoyo en el suelo que tienes como horno así más se intensifica el calor Chad.🔥🔥🙌💪
Intenté eso una vez y no funcionó.
I'm pretty sure that it just didn't get hot enough - your fuel source is probably fine. If you can do low-fire glaze pottery in it (cone 4, or about 900 C) then you can calcine limestone. The material will definitely be glowing brightly.
I have no problem firing my pottery even with softer wood like juniper. This fire was much hotter and it didn't work. Some people have suggested that I need to let it burn for a few hours. So, perhaps it was hot enough but just didn't burn long enough.
@@ChadZuberAdventures I imagine the solution could also be thicker walls, perhaps a double-walled kiln with wood ash filling the dead space, and once the fuel is burnt, cover the whole thing with more ashes to let it cool as slowly as possible. I will admit that the only successful calcination I personally have done was in a small electric test kiln, and the various test pieces were kept yellow-hot for more than an hour if memory serves (we thought the cone hadn't melted, but it had actually turned into a pool of liquid and I don't know what we were looking at instead). This was 16 year old me trying to turn amethyst into citrine - I doubt that batch worked, but I did have some limited success.
Hi Chad. Youre close but your Fires too short duration to convert the calcium in the shells into calcium oxide. I recommend washing the shells in fresh water, to remove any salt residue or leave them out in a good rain. let them dry and then fire them for at least several hours. Your efforts arent wasted though the dessicated shells are a great addition to your compost. If you can find limestone, im not sure what the geology is in the area, but if you have it, id recommend that for converting into quicklime, fist sized rocks and alternate layers fuel,lime,fuel,lime,etc until you fill that kiln. It takes a lot of heat over a long period but has been done successfully for hundreds of years with firewood and shell. If you only have shell, clam is a great choice, youll need a lot of shells, buckets of them, to charge the kiln. Youll find a full charge of fuel and shell will convert more successfully but some will fail to convert to calcium oxide no matter how careful you are. Its a long hot process im afraid.😬😆.
Thanks for this information. I've also been told to burn charcoal instead of wood in order to create more heat. I haven't found limestone in this immediate area but it probably exists somewhere in these mountains.
@@ChadZuberAdventures shells will do fine. I'd argue with the charcoal idea myself, I think the manzanita wood will produce more than enough heat and charcoal takes a while to produce in the quantity you'll need, and frankly I think you already have better uses for charcoal in your garden project. If you alternate a layer of wood, layer of shell,etc that manzanita wood will produce a great result 👋👍
Спасибо. Видео полезное. Поучительное.
Большое спасибо
درود بر چاد عزیز ...چقدر خوشحال هستم دوباره شما رو میبینم🌹 کیان هستم از ایران😘
ممنون عزیزم.
5:37 see here how the flames are large and produce very little smoke? This is probably the hottest part of the fire. Once again, I'd suggest finding a way to make a bellows of some sort, (there are many primitive methods to do this) and using a combination of wood and charcoal. Additionally, this kiln is oversized I think, both in sheer internal volume, and the fire opening at the bottom. I see this being great for large pots and making large piles of brick, but not much else. But... if you can get this right... When is Chad Zuber's concrete and brick house being built?
Thanks. I'm thinking to build a smaller kiln just for make quicklime.
you can change soil ph with adding eggshells and such left in sun to dry then crushed up just ask friends to save them for you and it safer you should added warning on dangers of quicklime, also dont forget to add seaweed if able to as it very good for soil also bones from animals left to dry in sun then smashed with a rock
Yes, all that is good too. Thanks.
Failure is the mother of success. I hope you can succeed next time.
Well, with all the failures I've had in life I sure hope success comes some time.
I'm no expert in primitive tech nor chemistry. You do need high temps, an article I saw said 900ºC (~1650ºF). I was curious whether a reducing atmosphere would help but apparently it's just a thermal decomposition. Given this is a heat problem not a chemical one; I think a taller chimney would help keep the heat in and pull more oxygen through. I'd also suggest making the intake/exhaust smaller because at the moment there is a huge oxygen supply that may exceed the furnace's capacity and cool everything down.
That's my armchair prim tech hypothesis. I hope I'm right and it helps.
Hello Chad, what veggies or shrubs you like to grow? blueberries like acidic soil 3.1 -3.6ph ,tomatoes like 4.3-4.9 ph.... it is not beneficial to make the soil too alkaline.
He’s doing corn beans and squash. Not sure what soil ph they like. It might be hard to get data for the corn if he’s using a historical variant from the area.
Blueberries wouldn't have a chance here. I haven't measured the pH so I can't tell you what it is but I have read that clay-rich soils are more acidic. I'm planning to grow native corn, squash, beans and chiles.
I think the problem might be that they need to be "baked" more than quickly "cooked". A 30 minute really hot fire doesn't give much time for chemical reactions to occur.
That's my thinking as well. I recently found literature saying to bake it for 2 hours. The facts are really gray though. I've seen so many different videos and even scientific literature and all the information is different.
Congratulations. Can you open a small channel from the stream for irrigation in your area?
The stream is much lower in elevation, so no, I can't do that.
This episode with the quicklime got me Dr.Stone vibes.
the research is a bit spotty, but I Think, assuming insufficient heat is the problem, you should probably convert the wood to charcoal. once source was saying that charcoal can easily burn over 1100c where as normal wood is only around 600c.
whether that's true at all, or true for a specific kind of wood, I don't know, but it's generally accepted that charcoal is hotter.
another thought is to use a crossdraft kiln or downdraft, to isolate the shells from the wood ash.
Okay, charcoal is the fuel I need to make. Yeah, there is so much conflicting information online. I get little hints here and there but never found any complete information. I will keep trying.
@@ChadZuberAdventures yeah, trial, error and progress. of course, now you have to figure out the ideal charcoal making process. which is most efficient, which you have the most ready avialability to, and which you're able to work best for YOU. some are more labor intensive, and time consuming than others.
@@TizonaAmanthia That will be a whole new adventure then.
@@ChadZuberAdventures Undoubtably a fun one! with quicklime, comes not just Ph amendments for soil, but cement, and concrete! with THAT you could....perhaps make an inground cistern, or some other kinds of water storage/collection!
Boas vibrações!
Obrigado
7:07 don't give up! Often there are 'roasts' of raw ore and ingredients, don't throw out the shells! Try them again and this time, make the fire hotter for longer!
That's exactly what I'm going to do.
Making quicklime from shells requires high temperatures and time.
In my case, I used charcoal and heated it for 2 hours with strong air intake to make quicklime.
Excellent! Thanks for the straightforward tips. I need to make charcoal.
I know that you don’t have a grocery store near you but if you can find any kind of birds nest you can get eggs and even if it’s hatch all you need is the shell it will produce calcium and protein, eggshells also contain small amounts of other minerals, including strontium, fluoride, magnesium and selenium. Good luck.
Yes, I save eggshells for the soil too.
I have no idea about making quicklime but I will recommend for you to watch "Edwardian Farm". Near the end of the first episode, they burn lime to create quicklime for changing the soil acidity. However, they accomplish this on a much larger scale than what you are doing.
I am not expert or chemical engineer by any means, but I think that to increase the heat generated by the fire you need to add more oxygen. Basically, oxygen is what makes the flames hotter, so when you are blowing with the cane, that makes the fire hotter, at least around where you are blowing.
I have done that before but it didn't make a difference. There are some structural modifications that I can do to the kiln to increase the heat.
Hi, I really like your videos, they are very inspiring (thanks for your content).
what you are trying to do is probably the decomposition of molecules into atoms such as: sodium, potassium, calcium, magnesium, beryllium, lithium. these are elements with a very low electronegativity (very few valence electrons), oxygen has a high electronegativity, oxygen with the listed atoms (sodium...), forms very strong bonds so you need a very high temperature for decomposition to occur, you need to create a constant temperature of at least 850- 1000+ degrees celsius maybe for more than 20 minutes maybe several hours. if I can recommend a video for inspiration, it's called >PRIMITIVE FIRE SCIENCE! Burning Shells Into Lime In a Grass Straw & Clay Furnace
From what I saw in your video, I would assume that the fire was not hot enough, didn't burn long enough, or both... The shell or lime stone has to sustain extremely high temperatures for an extended time... Good luck!!!
I agree! I need more heat!
sadly the clay soil in the region your in is permeated with chalk and that makes the soil.. Alkali sulfur and vinegar are common amendments to make it less akali but with granite in the area you might be fighting both because Granite erodes out with sulfur dioxide and water mixed makes a diluted sulfuric acid in the soil. you'll want to test it garden shops have a small test kit
Chalk? Where is the chalk? I haven't noticed any chalk. There is a lot of white quartz.
Pure speculation here:
1. Charcoal
2. Insulation
3. Air
1. Higher temperatures. To make charcoal the Australian guy lays a pyramid of sticks, each floor comprised of parallel sticks, parallel to the ground, and each floor turned 90 degrees around the vertical axis and over the adjacent floors below and above. Not sure he also covers the pyramid walls in mud. Then lights the top and waits for it to burn all the way down. I think low air is what creates charcoal.
2. Keep the heat in. One of the commenters mentioned suspending the fire away from the ground. I think higher kilns get hotter too. Look at the amount of flames coming out the top of yours. Maybe it's wasted heat. I would suspend the fire as suggested and even make an inner thin wall of about 1-2 fingers, 1-2 fingers away from the outer walls. Air insulates better than solids, so this setup should reduce heat loss significantly. Make the kiln as high as you can and cover the top and leave only a small gap for gas exhaustion. Besides aiding insulation it may help the air to build up in the chamber slightly increasing pressure and maximizing air contact. Then again it may also do the same for combustion gases but well... I think calcium carbonate needs CO2 to convert to CaO, no? [edit: nope. it releases CO2 to convert to CaO] It may help.
3. Higher temperature again. Make a bellow with your deer(?) skin. Maybe make a clay pout or get a trim of your blowing cane. Sew the skin with cordage into a (palm size) bag, tie around pout, sew a couple strings each to each side, enter palms press and pull? I don't know if this would work but seems simpler than a hinge mechanism. The Australian guy is experimenting with fans. I would make a fan with those yuca leaves or something wider as propellers and I'd adapt it to a pottery/sharpening wheel kind of pedaling system. That would put out a shitload of strength and air. It's involved but it should be simple enough to be doable. Either ways cover everything in the bottom except the air inlet.
Best luck, thanks for your work and I'd be most most glad if you implemented any of what I mentioned.
PS: have you considered piping the water from the river home? Cattails? Clay pipes? I think it's a great challenge but it's for the ultimate comfort! It could eventually turn into a filter and boiler system to enjoy safe and hot water.
PS2: advanced materials for advanced objects? Latex (rubber) from dandelions (there must be some in there)? Resin from any trees around? You could make elastic tools/weapons/utensils or line the floor and walls for a cleaner surface. I'm not sure where you stand with animals. Have you consider trapping and raising some for eggs, milk or meat?
Great ideas there. Thanks for sharing. The river is way too far for pumping water. All the other ideas are great.
chalk is also able to be burned into Calcium Carbonate same process just chalk also Marble as well
Not too sure but would a spindle blower allow stable yet high temperatures. Or would that cause the elasticity of the clay to deform?
I think it would work
Do you do wim hof or any other kind of breathwork?
ቻድ ደስ የምል አስተማሪ ቭድዮ ስለሰራ እናመሰግናለን በርታ ግን እዛ አከባብ ነጭ ድንጋ አታገኝም?
የኖራ ድንጋይ ማለትዎ ነውን? የኖራ ድንጋይ እስካሁን አላገኘሁም።
@@ChadZuberAdventures አው ብታገኝ ጥሩ ነበር ግን ሁሉ ቦታ አይገኝም
7:25 OHHH! Good idea!
First off clay has zero bearing on the acidity of soil. Next in the chiwawan desert most of the soil is quite alkaline. I'm seeing tons of limestone so I'm guessing this is true where you are. I would amend my soil with my urine which would react with the charcoal and form nitric acid. This should get you closer too pH neutral soil. To get lye for concrete it would be best to use the limestone itself as it's far more dance. You will need to bellow that fire some how as we need 2200 degree Celsius to convert it. Same as the shells. If you can melt raw iron to orange hot your there. Good luck from Carlsbad NM.
That's interesting because several sources indicate that clay does affect the pH. I have not found any limestone here. 2200 degree Celsius? Or Fahrenheit? All the literature I've read has said that the temperature needs to be 800 C, 900 C, or 1000 C.
wood ash itself is very alkaline in addition to containing many of the nutrients needed for plants and can be used to make lye by soaking it in water.
You don't need quicklime to condition your soil, just ashes will do!
That said, if you're deadset on making quicklime from shells, i think it's important to keep your heat both high and focused.
Hardwood or not, it's always going to be full of volatile organics that will burn off and lower the temperature of your flame.
If you're trying to reach 800C and that's the maximum temperature of your wood, then your wood has to burn at it's maximum temperature to achieve the desired effect.
However, if you're burning charcoal at 1,100C, then it only needs to reach 80% of it's maximum to do what you want. That's more ideal since you don't have forced air.
The second issue is the size of your furnace, which is quite large for such a small pot of shells. there's lots of room for air to flow in and around the shells, keeping them from heating up.
A smaller furnace stocked with charcoal would keep your heat much higher and more concentrated, allowing the shells to calcify.
You can also try creating a lid for the current kiln and stuff the burn chamber with bricks to reduce inner diameter.
You lose a lot of radiant heat to the sky with the top open like that anyways.
You can try finding or making your own clay by slaking soil or clay with water to remove sand and rocks.
By mixing in boiled starches, fine fibers and charcoal dust you can create a malleable clay and bricks capable of withstanding heat without cracking.
This is great information. Thanks so much for sharing. I've never made charcoal for burning so I'll have to learn that first. I always thought that good airflow was needed to produce a lot of heat but you (and several others) have suggested that I reduce the size of the opening at the top. I was not aware of this. Perhaps I will make a smaller kiln and shape it like a cone. Do you think that will work better?
@@ChadZuberAdventures
If the opening at the top is too small it will in fact reduce the temperature as the exhaust gasses still need somewhere to go, and you also won't be able to easily add charcoal or remove items from the top.
If you're fine with that then it shouldn't be an issue.
You might also consider drilling finger-sized holes in the wet mud or bricks around the base to ensure the fire gets oxygen and burns evenly, as having only one opening means it's only burning from one side.
You can make charcoal easily by starting a small fire in a pit and then stacking wood tightly on top of it to remove as many air gaps as possible.
Once it's burned down to a bed of coals, just put it out with water and spread it out to dry.
I know making bricks takes you a long time and water is a pain to move, so this method will waste a bit more wood but it's also more convenient than building a charcoal kiln.
@@Garjahn I'm going to make a new kiln that will allow air to flow from all sides. It will also have a smaller opening at top. Also a grate to allow air to freely flow below. Does this sound like a good idea to you?
Very cool, I had a dream about 2 weeks ago where I saw you doing this lol. I’ll let ya know if I dream a success lol :)
Thanks!
i have a question, does it have to be a manzanita wood or any wood can be used to make biochar ? thanks
Manzanita wood burns significantly hotter because it is very dense. Juniper wood burns noticeably less hot. But I believe that if I do it right juniper wood will work.
Also, all that manzanita ashes probably it's a lot better as fertilzier and ph ammendment than a couple of uncooked shells crushed. Just a matter of quantity over quality.
Yeah, you may be right.
your temperature is too low, I think
to improve this some tips
make a lid for the high temperature oven. the lid should have a hole of around 1 dm diameter.
your air inlet should be smaller so that air can press the air more easily. When air pressed in the oven, this results in higher temperatures.
You have to constantly pump air in in some primitive way. I would suggest a venturi application
You would also shock the shells in water immediately after heating.
And put the shells in cage not in a baking plate and a pot
Do you mean a hole of 1 cm?
Most of the videos I've seen online did not use an air pump.
Thanks.
@@ChadZuberAdventures 10 cm = 1dm
but if you ''pump/blow'' air constant in the fire the temperture increase significantly
Древесный уголь поможет. И надо сделать примитивную подачу воздуха для жара. Времени побольше для горения. Жар и время . Должно получится. Кроме того и пепел сам по себе содержит много калия который даёт щелочь. Из этого делают поташ.
First, the snail shells need to be thoroughly washed and dried.
2. Then the shells should be placed in an oven or bonfire and fired at a temperature of about 900-1000 degrees Celsius. The firing process should last approximately 1-2 hours.
3. Wood charcoal or firewood can be used as fuel for firing. Both options are suitable, but wood charcoal may provide a more even distribution of heat.
По мимо температуры возможно и матерьял не годится , основные минералы для производства извести доломит , мел и известняк , из этих минералов можно в домашних условиях сделать негашенную известь ...
Ракушечник упоминается в производстве но не в домашних условиях ,
@@Den-po5py ракушки тоже можно. Делали так.
Опыт был неудачен, потому что их не надо было ложить в тарелку, он дал им мало времени, пол часа это мало. И у него слишком большая печь. Но печь подойдёт конечно, просто она потребует слишком много топлива. Можно сделать печь с камерой поменьше и принудительным нагнетанием воздуха.
Обжигать надо долго. Пару часов минимум.
Хорошо, возможно, мне стоит сделать еще одну печь, специально предназначенную для производства негашеной извести. Я буду сжигать его и подольше.... Будут новые эксперименты.
@@ChadZuberAdventures
Chad, посмотри видео на канале "primitive technology" -lime. Это натолкнет тебя на правильные размышления для удачности эксперимента.
В видео получают из именно ракушек известь.
Конечно опыт первобытных людей в Юго-Восточной Азии и в пустыне Мохаве различен, но несомненно одно, древние люди умели извлекать максимальную выгоду из скромных ресурсов практически не оставляя после себя мусора. Они рационально использовали буквально всё, даже пепел от костра.
С интересом смотрю твой канал уже давно. Желаю тебе успехов в твоих проектах и исследованиях.
quicklime is useful for many things of course, but id say the ground shells are more or less equivalent as far as the soil is concerned; just not as fast-acting. But if finely ground into a powder like this, excess acid will react with the carbonate, liberating the co2 in the process chemically, rather than with heat; which gets you to the same end point. Arguably to a better end point since its self-limiting. With the quicklime you can create very alkaline pockets in your soil if you overdo it whereas the chemical process will come to a halt at neutral ph.
Good point there
my guess is it didnt get hot enough. I would close most of the top of your kiln off to trap heat aswell as use a block of some sort to control intake airflow on the bottom.
Definitely not hot enough. Others suggested I close the top too. Airflow at the bottom would be important though, right?
@@ChadZuberAdventures with a kiln that big you want control. The top lid controlling how hot it stays and the bottom controlling how hot it can get. Like a stovetop, max heat isnt always the best setting. being able to turn a wood fire kiln into an oven has it advantages too. Slow cook things overnight while keeping animals out. Also effectively becomes an emergency shutoff in case some big winds decide to try and burn everything down.
More directed towards the quicklime though, a setup like yours should be able to reach 800 internal within about 40-60 minutes but theres a lot of factors in that. Ive also heard of people using warm water in that final step but i have no idea if it matters or not but i do know the longer you submerge it the better quality you get.
As a sidenote, be careful, hell break protocol with a pair of safety glasses or goggles. Quicklime can destroy your vision permanently if not force your entire eyeball to be removed. As far as medical is concerned, an eye burn is the worst possible injury. one bad splash is all it takes.
My Grandfather was a British gardner, he used to use Quicklime to get stumps out of the ground- never heard of him usung it for fertilizer
I have only seen this done with limestone rocks sorry no idea. Any limestone around?
I have seen examples of it done with sea shells and egg shells too. I don't know if there is limestone here. I haven't found any yet.
8:36 have you been turning the pile and allowing air in?
Yes, I have.
Joinha garantido, parabéns pelo seu vídeo.
Obrigado!
@@ChadZuberAdventures Valeu, Chand.
And in order for the slaked lime to be perfect, it must be cooked at a temperature of 900 degrees for at least 3-4 hours. I make it from fossilized limestone.
Wow! 3-4 hours. None of the online sources I found even mentioned time.
What variant of corn do you plan to grow?
I purchased four different wild corn variants adapted to dry climates and medium elevations.
Эффект был бы другим, если бы ракушки прокаливались находясь в горшке. Им не хватило температуры для разрушения молекулярных связей. Нагрев, прокаливание был бы достаточно равномерным за счёт нахождения ракушек в керамической посуде, из-за долговременного сохрания жара.)🤔
Try do it in mold and use charcoal this shuld make good temp
I need to make charcoal.
@@ChadZuberAdventures yup, but you have anything you need there (mud+wood) 😅 You are best YT survivor- you can handle that ! 😎
@@TrickshootGames Thanks! 👍
bro nice 😍🤩
I like it
I wonder if the temperature is too low another thing is to use charcoal will higher heat and reduce the oxygen in kiln. What you are doing is reducing the carbonate to oxide. I think it takes a certain length of at the right temperature. Just my thoughts but i am no expert.
But won't a reduction of oxygen lower the temperature? I've seen videos where people use a fan to blow air on the fire. I even tried that one time too but still failed. Most of the information I found online didn't even mention how long to burn it. But I found two sources today that say to burn it for 1 - 2 hours.
As they already told you below. If you want to lower the PH of the soil, you don't need to use quicklime. Any ash is alkaline, just mix it with the earth, be careful with the quantity. Too much alkalinity also harms plants.
Yes, I know that and I did that two years ago. I also want quicklime for other projects.
Leave the shells in the pot and put that plate on as a lid. I think your shells are reacting with the carbon in your wood and producing calcium carbonate instead of the Calcium oxide you want. If you leave them in the pot with a lid, it should keep the shells separate from the carbon in the wood and allow the process to work more effectively.
In all the videos I've seen nobody has done it that way. They actually all put the shells directly on the wood.
I'm not sure if this would work, but maybe you could use bones to make quicklime.
I still need to reach a higher temperature. If I do, then I will try bones as well.
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