Hey Nu, I've heard a lot that after alt-tabbing in and out of game, doing something like turning nvidia reflex off then back on, or changing the resolution, sort of "resets" the game and reduces input latency that you would otherwise have due to the alt-tabbing. Is this just a myth or is there something to it?
@@H0tCh0c0-gr3qe in testing on my rig, it reduced game to render latency from 4.1ms to 3.6ms, even while getting 500+ fps at 1440p, i capped my framerate to my refreshrate and it did the same. Sure, its not a human perceivable difference, but it lowered it by a tiny bit
so... fullscreen and borderless fullscreen are almost the same right now in comparison of latency? also, should i cap my fps to 145 using a 144hz monitor? I feel it more smooth, easier to spot things, no edges. What did you think?
What are your thoughts on the PC optimizations being provided on Twitter right now? Do you think it is snake oil? I am sure it genuinely helps some as I can expect some gamers to not even know what XMP is however do you think those competing without the optimizations are on an even playing field?
Also pls pls pls how can I make my game look like sinatraa’s one thing I noticed was that he has anisotropic filtering at 8x but then his gun looks muddy the way it would look on 1x so I am very confused thanks pls
Yeah exactly. There is no performance difference but borderless mode plays much more nicely with other things compared to exclusive, so it's really nice they finally updated to a proper borderless mode. Just make sure there are no windows on top of borderless mode because that will remove all the benefits from this change. Overlays that hook into a game are still ok.
i have a question. one day, im getting 120 fps stable, and the next i cant get 60. i didnt change anything in game or outside of the game, but it suddenly just became worse. ideas/fixes? i7 cpu and nvidia gt 1030
Appreciate the info and the twitter thread you guys had about this. I'm curious, when testing fullscreen do you check the "disable fullscreen optimizations" setting for the Valorant executable? I ask because you say people can benefit from the faster alt+tab times of windowed fullscreen now without worrying about latency, but in my testing fullscreen alt+tabs just as fast as windowed fullscreen does, so long as "disable fullscreen optimizations" is UNchecked. Wish I had i my hands on an LDAT!
@Solo It's actually more complex than that. In an attempt to keep it somewhat short, I'm going to discuss mainly three different "presentation models". - "FSE" is the "classic" exclusive fullscreen mode -- that is fullscreen mode with Disable Fullscreen Optimizations ticked. - "FSO" is when you use fullscreen mode *without* Disable Fullscreen Optimizations ticked. - "Flip model based borderless window mode" is the new borderless window mode that this new patch implemented. This is what has essentially nil impact to latency. - "BitBlt model based borderless window mode" was the old borderless window mode that older versions of the game used. This is what had the huge impact to latency. Now that we've to that out of the way, in reality "FSO" is actually the same as "flip model based borderless window mode". What happens in the background is that Windows' fullscreen optimizations takes the exclusive fullscreen mode and runs it in what is essentially a flip model based borderless window mode. It does this completely transparently to the game, so games wouldn't even be aware of it happening unless they monitor changes in how the game process is being presented. This is why you were seeing "fullscreen" had Alt+Tabs as fast as windowed fullscreen -- because in essence they are one and the same. Any difference in alt+tabbing comes from the fact that the game is allowed to set a different resolution or refresh rate than Windows' desktop is set to, and upon alt+tabbing Windows would switch between these. So if the resolution and refresh rate would line up with the desktop, no display mode switch needed to occur and an instant alt+tab would be the result. However now we arrive to what is to me the most baffling. "FSE" aka classic exclusive fullscreen mode have always required a display mode switch and so alt+tabbing have never been instant. This, however, is no longer the case in the latest versions of Windows 10/11 **provided** the resolution and refresh rate lines up with the desktop of Windows. So nowadays it's actually possible to get instant alt+tab in any and all modes -- as long as the game matches the desktop's. This is a recent development that I stumbled over last year so I am unsure when exactly it was added to Windows but it means that technically it doesn't matter any more which mode is being used -- as long as the refresh rate and resolution lines up between the game and the desktop, alt+tab should be pretty much instant.
@@Aemony I have a suspicion the reason FSE functions the same as FSO is because you can't truly disable FSO in the latest builds of windows 10 anymore. There has been latency testing that shows FSO actually performs slightly better than FSE now in everything after build 2004 I believe. This coupled with the fact that alt tabs happen quickly regardless leads me to believe true FSE isn't being achieved anymore. Yes Presentmon will show legacy mode with FSO disabled, but the behavior and latency results just dont add up. Not to mention it subjectively feels different. I suspect the compositor is always involved now somehow regardless of which mode you use seeing as Microsoft is more than intent on making sure they can run game bar over anything no matter what. When you have a game you've played for 10 years like me with quake, and you know exactly what kind of accuracies you average and what it feels like to aim on a day to day basis, and you try using any of these pseudo FSE builds it just feels awful now.
I haven't investigated Valorant's latest changes, but if they do use the new flip based presentation model in window mode as well (there's really no reason why they wouldn't), then yes, it would affect normal windowed mode *but only* if you have a more modern GPU that supports what's called multi-plane overlays (MPOs). If it does, then Windows can assign a hardware backed overlay plane for the game to render too, allowing you minimal latency even in windowed scenarios. This however requires a GTX 16/RTX 20 series or newer, I believe, or an Intel iGPU, or some AMD GPU (I am unsure of when they exactly added support). Otherwise if you have an older GPU you'd still get the same higher latency as long as the game window doesn't cover the whole screen.
Hey Nu, Does VALORANT have mouse smoothing? I've noticed that compared to other games there is delay when turning quickly, and very small but noticeably amounts of delay when micro-adjusting. Turning itself seems like its predicted? way smoother than you'd expect from an FPS game with RAW input.
@@NuMakesGames Why is it then if I add [/Script/Engine.InputSettings] bEnableMouseSmoothing=False The mouse feels different. Why is this? I tried it on two different accounts? It definitely feels "responsive" for some reason? Input in general is faster.. I am able to right click and ADS instantly. Moving the mouse from Point A to B (at least with high frame rates) isn't delayed either/feels like its supposed to.
"having another program's window on top of your gameplay window will negate these benefits" Does this apply to Nvidia's shadowplay overlay or Discord's in-game overlay?
Maybe its stupid question but can valorant make increase in using GPU usage or its not possible and IT would demand rewrite game code or smth (i dont have knowledge on this topic but i think u will understand) [for example valorant is the one game i know that reducing resolution doesnt increase fps even by 1] And i know this game is CPU based but that's why i asking about it :]
@@chadmoves4863 Improve Clarity, Vignette and Sharpening won't hit you that bad. Almost every competitive online game is heavily CPU based so ig all you can do is get a better setup, sadly.
Hey Nu, I've heard a lot that after alt-tabbing in and out of game, doing something like turning nvidia reflex off then back on, or changing the resolution, sort of "resets" the game and reduces input latency that you would otherwise have due to the alt-tabbing. Is this just a myth or is there something to it?
i just turn off nvidia reflex its useless only used for gpu bound games where your gpu usage exceeds 99%
@@H0tCh0c0-gr3qe in testing on my rig, it reduced game to render latency from 4.1ms to 3.6ms, even while getting 500+ fps at 1440p, i capped my framerate to my refreshrate and it did the same. Sure, its not a human perceivable difference, but it lowered it by a tiny bit
super late comment but have you tested multithreaded rendering on vs off?
Prefer On.
so... fullscreen and borderless fullscreen are almost the same right now in comparison of latency?
also, should i cap my fps to 145 using a 144hz monitor? I feel it more smooth, easier to spot things, no edges. What did you think?
@Riot Nu what about disabling Fullscreen Optimization?
This is awesome. Can you please tell me about the FPS impact of Windowed FS vs FS?
There should be none.
best FPS game best Dev
What are your thoughts on the PC optimizations being provided on Twitter right now? Do you think it is snake oil? I am sure it genuinely helps some as I can expect some gamers to not even know what XMP is however do you think those competing without the optimizations are on an even playing field?
I have problem do I enable NVIDIA control panel low latency to ultra and NVIDIA reflex to on + boost ?
What refresh rate were these tests run at?
240 hz
Also pls pls pls how can I make my game look like sinatraa’s one thing I noticed was that he has anisotropic filtering at 8x but then his gun looks muddy the way it would look on 1x so I am very confused thanks pls
Facts. Only alt tab if you’re already dead. But now with this fix I can go in windowed mode which plays nicer with discord streaming. EZ
Yeah exactly. There is no performance difference but borderless mode plays much more nicely with other things compared to exclusive, so it's really nice they finally updated to a proper borderless mode.
Just make sure there are no windows on top of borderless mode because that will remove all the benefits from this change. Overlays that hook into a game are still ok.
i have a question. one day, im getting 120 fps stable, and the next i cant get 60. i didnt change anything in game or outside of the game, but it suddenly just became worse. ideas/fixes?
i7 cpu and nvidia gt 1030
Hey, I wanna draw skins for guns for riot, how can I do it?
Input latency pls and adjust image settings from nvidea
Appreciate the info and the twitter thread you guys had about this. I'm curious, when testing fullscreen do you check the "disable fullscreen optimizations" setting for the Valorant executable? I ask because you say people can benefit from the faster alt+tab times of windowed fullscreen now without worrying about latency, but in my testing fullscreen alt+tabs just as fast as windowed fullscreen does, so long as "disable fullscreen optimizations" is UNchecked.
Wish I had i my hands on an LDAT!
Players should not change any defaults in compatibility settings for VALORANT.
@@NuMakesGames Gotcha. Thank you.
@Solo
It's actually more complex than that. In an attempt to keep it somewhat short, I'm going to discuss mainly three different "presentation models".
- "FSE" is the "classic" exclusive fullscreen mode -- that is fullscreen mode with Disable Fullscreen Optimizations ticked.
- "FSO" is when you use fullscreen mode *without* Disable Fullscreen Optimizations ticked.
- "Flip model based borderless window mode" is the new borderless window mode that this new patch implemented. This is what has essentially nil impact to latency.
- "BitBlt model based borderless window mode" was the old borderless window mode that older versions of the game used. This is what had the huge impact to latency.
Now that we've to that out of the way, in reality "FSO" is actually the same as "flip model based borderless window mode". What happens in the background is that Windows' fullscreen optimizations takes the exclusive fullscreen mode and runs it in what is essentially a flip model based borderless window mode. It does this completely transparently to the game, so games wouldn't even be aware of it happening unless they monitor changes in how the game process is being presented.
This is why you were seeing "fullscreen" had Alt+Tabs as fast as windowed fullscreen -- because in essence they are one and the same. Any difference in alt+tabbing comes from the fact that the game is allowed to set a different resolution or refresh rate than Windows' desktop is set to, and upon alt+tabbing Windows would switch between these. So if the resolution and refresh rate would line up with the desktop, no display mode switch needed to occur and an instant alt+tab would be the result.
However now we arrive to what is to me the most baffling. "FSE" aka classic exclusive fullscreen mode have always required a display mode switch and so alt+tabbing have never been instant. This, however, is no longer the case in the latest versions of Windows 10/11 **provided** the resolution and refresh rate lines up with the desktop of Windows. So nowadays it's actually possible to get instant alt+tab in any and all modes -- as long as the game matches the desktop's. This is a recent development that I stumbled over last year so I am unsure when exactly it was added to Windows but it means that technically it doesn't matter any more which mode is being used -- as long as the refresh rate and resolution lines up between the game and the desktop, alt+tab should be pretty much instant.
@@Aemony I have a suspicion the reason FSE functions the same as FSO is because you can't truly disable FSO in the latest builds of windows 10 anymore. There has been latency testing that shows FSO actually performs slightly better than FSE now in everything after build 2004 I believe. This coupled with the fact that alt tabs happen quickly regardless leads me to believe true FSE isn't being achieved anymore. Yes Presentmon will show legacy mode with FSO disabled, but the behavior and latency results just dont add up. Not to mention it subjectively feels different. I suspect the compositor is always involved now somehow regardless of which mode you use seeing as Microsoft is more than intent on making sure they can run game bar over anything no matter what.
When you have a game you've played for 10 years like me with quake, and you know exactly what kind of accuracies you average and what it feels like to aim on a day to day basis, and you try using any of these pseudo FSE builds it just feels awful now.
does this effect the normal windowed mode at all?
I haven't investigated Valorant's latest changes, but if they do use the new flip based presentation model in window mode as well (there's really no reason why they wouldn't), then yes, it would affect normal windowed mode *but only* if you have a more modern GPU that supports what's called multi-plane overlays (MPOs). If it does, then Windows can assign a hardware backed overlay plane for the game to render too, allowing you minimal latency even in windowed scenarios.
This however requires a GTX 16/RTX 20 series or newer, I believe, or an Intel iGPU, or some AMD GPU (I am unsure of when they exactly added support).
Otherwise if you have an older GPU you'd still get the same higher latency as long as the game window doesn't cover the whole screen.
Hey Nu,
Does VALORANT have mouse smoothing?
I've noticed that compared to other games there is delay when turning quickly, and very small but noticeably amounts of delay when micro-adjusting. Turning itself seems like its predicted? way smoother than you'd expect from an FPS game with RAW input.
No. Just raw input.
@@NuMakesGames Why is it then if I add
[/Script/Engine.InputSettings]
bEnableMouseSmoothing=False
The mouse feels different.
Why is this? I tried it on two different accounts? It definitely feels "responsive" for some reason?
Input in general is faster.. I am able to right click and ADS
instantly. Moving the mouse from Point A to B (at least with high frame
rates) isn't delayed either/feels like its supposed to.
@@perpetuaL524 how to do it bruh pls teach me
@@perpetuaL524 how did you do it?
"having another program's window on top of your gameplay window will negate these benefits"
Does this apply to Nvidia's shadowplay overlay or Discord's in-game overlay?
Good question!
Checked Nvidia - doesn't apply.
Maybe its stupid question but can valorant make increase in using GPU usage or its not possible and IT would demand rewrite game code or smth (i dont have knowledge on this topic but i think u will understand) [for example valorant is the one game i know that reducing resolution doesnt increase fps even by 1] And i know this game is CPU based but that's why i asking about it :]
You can turn ON some settings to increase GPU usage, If you're CPU bound.
@@RicardoMilosGachi i mean it will lower FPS. What i mean its general increasing in gpu usage to achieve more frames
@@chadmoves4863 Improve Clarity, Vignette and Sharpening won't hit you that bad.
Almost every competitive online game is heavily CPU based so ig all you can do is get a better setup, sadly.
It's CPU bound. The increase of GPU usage won't result help improve the fps. Try close the background running programs that you don't need instead.
Thanks nu!
Hope it will be fixed soon 🤞
Great job guys 😍
PACTH
oh no