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bro really made a 45mins theory, saw it couldn't be true, then proceeded to make ANOTHER 45mins long theory to correct it and talk about even more theories. what a chad.
Lancer actually never comes out of our inventory during the snowgrave route and turns to stone in there, so the inventory is clearly not a safe space that any darkner can stay in without consequence. Although, the Original Starwalker never solidifies during the route, so they actually see what we do to the other darkners.
@@marsgreekgodit's right after queen puts them all in rooms. lancer helps us escape, but he turns to stone afterwards. i think it's after we finish the floor shadow puzzles in the mansion.
This is a great video. My theory is that sans' laziness transcends space and time, directly effecting Toby Fox work ethic causing him to to just copy and paste sans from Undertale into Deltarune and calling it a day.
Asriel and the amalgamates cannot dodge. Their defence is simply really high. It's just that Undertale and Deltarune consider every 0-damage attack a "miss". This is most evident in Mettaton's case, who is explicitly stated to have defence so high, to be invulnerable to your attacks. That being said Asriel could probably still dodge, especially bc he can fly, bc, well, god also Lancer does turn into a statue in the inventory during the Snowgrave route when you enter the mansion
Hijacking this comment to add on: also papyrus and the rest of the underground know what cars are from the trash dump. An entire area of the game dedicated to explaining how monsters know about human things
@@blakestation2632 I was thinking this too. Papyrus even finds his dream car in the credits so information on it clearly could have reached the underground. Of course some things might skew their perception (anime) but the car magazine doesn't necessarily have to be from deltarune
I think it's possible to actually kill the snowy amalgamate if you increase your damage with legendary heroes around 8 times and do some other stuff. I saw it done once but I forget where
Personally I like the idea that, whatever Ralsei is (devil horns, green crayon, etc), the item is so tied up in complex emotions for Kris that they would prefer to forget that they have it on them, either not showing it in the inventory or including it in the pile of junk
Theory: since "It's raining somewhere else" and "song that might play when you fight sans" are connected, it could mean that when you fight sans in deltarune(if ever) it will play "song that might play when you fight sans"
21:45 I'm fairly sure Starwalker is a light world save point, he was just in the closet when the grand fountain came to be and since Save points are a mystery in their own right, he probably can teleport or save edit himself between worlds or some obscene craziness that he simply doesn't acknowledge the sheer overpoweredness of. I have no evidence or backing to this. It just is. Just like how he is the original starwalker.
@@WanderTheNomad Well, without whatever happened with the core in Undertale they're probably very scarce, and the only one in hometown is now the Original Starwalker. Scratch that- I mistook it for something else.
@@WanderTheNomad Forget that, my memory is garbled, I don't think it was ever hinted the core had anything to do with the save points, I was thinking of some old debunked theory from way back...
You missed a super crucial peice of evidence: lancer can become a card in the dark world too, when you deploy lancer in the cage he is dropped as a single jack of spades card. This opens the possibility of darkners consciously chosing to be objects, possibly some kind of "toys hide from andy" situation, a much easier explination for how sans can be regular sans in the light world.
Reminds me how in an unrelated franchise, Disgaea, at least in the earlier games in the franchise, monsters there are able to transform into weapon form to be wielded by a different unit as a weapon. I believe this ability was known as "Magichange", though it's been forever since I played Disgaea 5, so my memory of that is not perfect. I have bad memory span of things too, which does not help me remember some things I want to that don't cause me emotional suffering
You reminded me of a children's show I used to watch in which there was a secret world of tiny people that go around fixing appliances and machines from the inside; they can turn into nails and bolts to hide at any moment. This is a pretty interesting theory
About ralsei being able to go between dark worlds without turning to stone: I believe he's not a member of any singular dark world, but instead the prince of ALL dark worlds, thats what's prince of darkness most obviously means to me
yeah that makes sense also ralsei said the darkners represent the will of their fountain and since ralsei is the prince of darkness it would make sense for him not to turn to stone
Honestly, I want to know how Everyman can exist in multiple dark worlds and is able to get to the True lab in Undertale without changing or turning to stone.
I think Monster Kid looks so different due to being older, Kris looks older than the player character in Undertale, implying Deltarune is technically "later"
18:59 Yes, we do know. In the snowgrave route, Lancer turns to stone while in Kris's pocket meaning it's because of the Cyber World not being the Dark World he originated from.
I'm more of a believer that Deltarune is a prequel in another universe, and while Sans did hop to another universe, that's not just an ability he has. The reason for this is that in Undertale he laments not being able to go back, and never being able to see "them" again. If he could just go back to whatever world he is talking about, then I don't see why he is so depressed.
This is also supported with Toby being adamant about there being one ending and a lot of pushing that your choices don't matter. We don't have the ability to change how things will ultimately turn out. Especially since it doesn't matter what you do to Berdly. Spare, break his arm, or freeze him.
I believe that it's another universe too, like it's what happens if the first fallen human is the older sibling (Chara, Undertale) or the younger sibling (Kris, Deltarune)
33:52 Actually, Monster Kid as a surprisingly good reason: as he stated in Undertale only kids wear striped shirts, as that was how he deduced that Frisk was infact a kid and not a midget or whatever the other option may have been... Monster Kid in delrarune is a teen not a kid anymore, no more striped shirts for him.
18:48 Something to highlight is that in the Snowgrave route, Lancer still turns to stone in your inventory. Found this out from a mystic slime video as I realized that Lancer might have witnessed Snowgrave... (poor traumatized child)
@@tigerbear5845yeah I remember thinking it feels like a direct kindness from the game that if you check on lancer during snowgrave he's sleeping n has no idea
That green crayon theory is cute and interesting despite not much evidence, but it can be really fun to speculate! I also like both sides of is Ralsei good or bad, because it's such an interesting discussion!
I wouldn’t necessarily say Asgore is capable of dodging attacks. After all, Undine’s fight is the one battle where you can block attacks instead of dodging them.
You forget that the monsters in undertale get a lot of stuff from the dump. It’s entirely possible that the car magazine with cars and stuff was in the dump and sans found it and brought it home, since they say it all comes from the human world
@@chongwillson972how the hell there a thing resemble close enough to the sun without thinking it a yellow ball? Even if it illustrate by book or magazine, we see that in Papyrus's bookself, he mostly have puzzle making books (and that one children book)
It's not very often you'll see something like this; it's very much appreciated, and should probably be the standard. But, while I'm here, might as well poke a few holes in relation to some of those nine 'definitive' pieces of evidence you still mentioned. In response to 5:45 - we do actually have instances of monsters having stomachs, ergo some kind of digestive system, in both worlds. In Deltarune, Dad Cat, while reminiscing about the old days with Asriel, mentions "* Eatin' oranges and gettin' our stomachs pumped." There is a similar reference to Catty having eaten oranges in Alphys' Alarm Clock dialogue from the fifth Undertale anniversary; though, notably, both interactions take place on the surface in some way (the Alarm Clock dialogue is post-pacifist). This still at least proves that, as the Mouth from Grillby's mentions, human food passes through your entire body. But how could Sans get human food if he lives underground? I think you already know where I'm going with this. We already know Sans and Papyrus are from somewhere else originally in Undertale; whether that place is Deltarune or some third world is unknown, but we know he's taken mementos from that place with him. So, the ketchup could be some industrial supply that he brought with him to tide him over, or since he's a skeleton it could've just been sitting there in his mouth for all these years (he never opens it, so we can't tell). Which is, uh, certainly a thought. Furthermore, we do have an example of a monster being defeated by putting them to sleep - that being Knight Knight, a random encounter in the Core.
25:40 I actually find that many people (including myself) fall somewhere in between, where we see him as definitely keeping some secrets and even telling lies but ultimately with good intentions, and that things will be resolved and he'll come clean sooner or later without anything too dramatic like a boss battle
you probably should’ve mentioned that when the dust sound plays after the Sans fight, the player hits lv20 at the same time even if the dust sound isn’t hard proof, the fact that the player earns EXP pretty much confirms Sans did actually die there
Bit of a weak explanation, but theres nothing about LOVE that requires the monster to die. Yes in game killing monsters increases LOVE, but its just Level Of Violence. Its reasonable to think that "defeating" sans, the most difficult enemy in the game, would make us even more violent.@@Void_Echoes
If I recall correctly, there is a kill count in the Menu that records how many monsters you have killed, however, beating Sans does not count as a kill in the Stats menu, and the game does not record whether or not he is killed.
@@moondoggaming7800plus, there’s ways in game that increase the exp that killing enemies gives, ex. Doing what Looks doesn’t want you to do before killing it increases the exp recieved
Besides what has already been said, there is also proof within Undertale that EXP is not tied to just killing. In the ruins, picking on a Loox will increase the amount of EXP killing him will award, despite killing the same number of monsters. Granted, you do have to kill the Loox to get this extra EXP, but the fact remains that you can level up by doing more than just killing.
Allow me to add my piece to this pie; Sans shares the same color scheme as King and Queen. White, Black, and Blue. Chapter 3 could prove this wrong with its main chapter boss, but it's been consistent so far in the series.
Well . id doubt to call it consistant, we'd need a third one to really call it a pattern, same with the "Secret boss predicts next main antagonist" thing
@@Volian0yes it does seem to take longer in Canon, we dont get to see Sussie and the goat I cant spell the name of rip hanging out well we are watching behind a traffic cone and also those 2 are already at the castle entrance waiting for Kris to show up before they enter the castle. so it does seem snowgrave takes longer in canon time wise hence why the rules card was already stone well Lancer turned into stone soon as we entered. the pocket may help protect the darkner from turning to stone for sometime as the rules card was roaming for a while but lancer turned to stone nearly as soon as they left Kris pocket. but if it took Kris for after the acid pond sawn ride in the normal route to get to the entrance of the castle in the snowgrave route it would mean by that time the rules card would have already turned to stone which and the amount of protection the pocket can give a darkner is over and Lancer who really quickly turns to stone out the pocket quickly turned to stone in the pocket. also Lancer had enough time to fall asleep bored by the time we lock in snowgrave so it does seem us backtracking to freeze all the darkners in canon took a very long time
"we haven't seen a battle with a monster end because they get tired" doesn't the fight with undyne do basically that, sure it isn't like in deltarune, but she stops trying to battle you because she gets tired from the heat and running
Something so many theorists for some reason choose to ignore is that Ralsei isn't any regular darkner, he's the prince from the dark. And even if his role as one of the three heroes isn't enough, he's still the *only* darkner from the grand fountain (or at least the only one we know of). And the grand fountain is already known to be an exception when it comes to things related to travelling between dark worlds, being the only one any darkner can live in regardless of origin and the only one (so far) with an actual exit. Taking all that into consideration, it really isn't that much of a stretch to assume that appearing in any dark world is just a thing Ralsei can do, be it due to his role in the legend, his origin being the grand fountain or both.
Pretty much. He's the obly darkber we know of who comes from the Great Fountain, which the legend seems to imply is the "original" one that exists "naturally", so its logical to think, until we get other evidence or even a second example, that the traits of the fountain apply to the darkners made by it
18:48 actually, in the weird route Lancer also turns into a statue if you check him in your key items (i believe at around the same time you find Rouxls' statue), so them being in Kris' possession isn't what keeps them from turning into statues.
My personal favorite explanation for why Ralsei can travel between worlds is that Kris is unknowingly/secretly Ralsei's light world counterpart. It would explain why Ralsei is immune to becoming a statue(the pure darkness fountain form him). There is a hole in the theory being a lack of a sparkle that can be linked to Ralsei each time you enter a dark world, but it's still a nice idea anyways.
28:57 Ok, you can’t just say they share almost nothing in common just because they’re slightly different sizes and have different interiors. They have the same design, and the brickwork is almost a 1 for 1.
The statuification happens when a darker doesn't belong. If they're keeping to themselves or fitting in, no problem. It's only once they start meddling with the way things work. Why do you think Ralsei is so desperate not to ever push the player on anything? It's also why Ralsei's castle town is completely safe. It was literally created to house a diverse cast, so that they always belong.
BRO i was thinking the song dont forget has some workds taht tie into entry 17 or are just weird?? "when the light is running low" :photon readings negative "and the shadows start to grow" :shadows cutting deeper "and the places taht you know seem like fantasy" :the first time entering into dark world? "theres a light inside your soul" :determination/saving .... (lyrics taht i dont think are important) "dont forget" :duh, sans lab n stuff "im with you in the dark" :again, negative photon readings, cutting shadows, and gaster kinda being to do with being in some sort of void? idk, when i thought abt it, it was kinda interesting, lmk what u think
This is theory. It explains why there are differences between Deltarune and Undertale. Gaster was the one who created the CORE, which used "magic thermal energy" from Hotland to power every home and machine in the whole entire underground. The sprites used in the core are themed around darkness. Darkness Totems being one of the ones that I can think of off the top of my head. Gaster talks about darker, yet darker, yet darker. Photon readings negative... But entry 17 is very old. It has to have been written at least before Alphys took over, this even predating the Determination experiments, although Alphys did so with old blueprints she found... and possibly even before the core was created. Gaster talks about detecting darkness, created the darkness themed equipment that's found in the CORE, that powers every single inch of the underground, lights, TVs, robots, etcetera.... In a world where monsters can use magic. THAT'S RIGHT! 👍. I am proposing that Gaster's Entry 17 is about him finding the darkness magic that's under the ground. But instead of opening fountains with it, he used it to power the underground since for what ever reason it must've been incapable of breaking the barrier. This magic energy power essentially leached into the underground turning the whole thing into a sort of pseudo-DarkWorld. And this perfectly explains why Undertale monsters can use magic, and why Deltarune ones can't... And most importantly of all... It explains why UT monsters turn into dust when they die... Dust in UT is described by monsters as their essence. And the reason that they turn into dust in UT is because they are made mostly out of "Magic" rather than physical matter. Which is the same reason that the amalgamates melt together. Darkners turn into dust after a certain point when the roaring has happened, it makes sense that this'll happen when-ever they die in general, which I used as more evidence that UT monsters are darkners. PS. (I say that they turn into dust because of the mountains of dust seen in the "?????" beginning area of Ch-1. The sprites are named "puffy mound entities", but the enemies are also called "Wobbly Thing" and "Evil Wobbly Thing" which is why I think that Toby was dancing around the word "Dust" to avoid giving away too much information.) And while monsters in UT say that they could _always_ use magic, it's ALSO unknown just how long they've been down there... 👇 They don't even know what the sun looks like. Except for Sans, but Sans is a super weird exception to that rule. In fact, except for Sans, Asgor and Toriel, nobody knows about the sun and wonder if stars are like the crystals found in WaterFall. So the history we hear about in books and hear from monsters in UNDERTALE was a fabricated history. A history changed over time to explain their situation. Their bodies changed to adapt to their super-darkness-energy-rich environment... Possibly even becoming partial-darkners or "Pseudo-Darkners" due to high levels of prolonged darkness exposure, which also explains why they don't have Determination... In fact.. when I think about it.. the barrier in "New Home" kinda looks and acts like the exact opposite of the Dark fountains in Deltarune.. White light emitting from the sides, not from a source, getting darker towards the center like a pulse traveling through a long hallway. *NOTE:* This is the shortened version of a longer theory which I haven't even commented because I KNOW nobody would ever read that book. In fact it'd had to be posted in 2+ parts because of RUclips's character limit. Which I found out the hard way. :( You're welcome for shortening this. I knew if I put all of that here, you'd never ever read it. So I hope this'll do. Also I have a 10,000 word count document with supporting evidence for this but consolidated it to just this. Again, I'm sorry! Idk if I should go for read-ability or if I should go for most supported information. Ya know?
A great point you bring up: We just take for granted the fact they generate magical power, but what are they powering? Yes they have appliances but they're all powered by magic. Not from any external source, but from the monsters themselves.
@@omegahaxors9-11 No not exactly what I was saying. I was saying that the appliances and lazars and everything IS powered by magic, but that magic is coming from the CORE, which because of a few CORE sprite names that involve darkness and it's creator Gaster's association with darkness, is likely running off of darkness. This darkness that is used to power the underground seeps into and changed it over time, causing the underground to become more Dark-World-Like. A sort of... half-light world half-dark world situation. This would explain why they can use magic and why certain non-living things become alive. Such as the dancing mushroom guy, the snow man, the rocks in Snowden Town, and the rock in the ruins. Among some others. So the monsters couldn't always use magic, but gained the ability over time because of the CORE using darkness magic. I have LAAAARGE amount of evidence for this, but I don't want to make this too lengthy.
I personally think the reason why Ralsei seems to be able to survive between worlds is because he's not just a Darkner, but a PRINCE of the Dark. Given his inclusion in the prophecy in the first chapter, I suspect he has special world hopping powers that aid him in his goal of sealing all the fountains, especially since its clear that the fountains are scattered and not accessible by a normal Darkner. That being said, this does open up the possibility that Sans is an equally powerful Darkner and that's how he can survive in the overworld. Maybe he and Papyrus are princes of another darkner world that has already been swallowed by a fountain and they escaped into the overworld. Maybe that's what is hiding in the bunker.
(woo I had a whole comment typed out and youtube decided to lose it yay, let's try this again) 21:52 It's also likely the Ralsei is the horned headband Toriel mentions when you talk to her at the end of chapter 1 if not more so. The way it set up feels like it's even pushing you to this conclusion When you enter the Dark World you go to all these places and meet all these people only to close the Fountain, when you do you find yourself in a room filled with things and begin to realize that they line up with everything you saw, that they're all objects and toys. But there's someone missing, Ralsei, and just before you closed the fountain you learn that he looks remarkably like the Dreemurrs and you start to wonder what he really is. You go around town and talk to people with this thought in the back of your head and finally get home and talk to Toriel. If you ask her about Kris she talks about how when they were little they asked when their horns would grow in so she bought a horned headband for them and how Kris wore it for ages and finally she questions what happened to it Ralsei being the horned headband even fits in a thematic fashion. The Horns being an object meant to bring Kris comfort and make them feel like they belong with the Dreemurrs, and how Ralsei tries so hard to make Kris feel important and that they belong since the second they meet. It even accounts for all the aspects of Asriel (fanon and canon) people see in him as the way Kris looks up to their older brother may have influenced Ralsei's Being. This can even play into story and character dynamics explaining why he seems to make Kris uncomfortable on some level, being the embodiment of everything Kris wanted to be as a kid but feels they can never be
your videos are the only thing keeping me going through these rough times known as deltarune content drought so please dont feel like you wouldnt have a viewerbase if you kept making them
I do appreciate you came back to this older theory and i still enjoy your arguments. And just in general i enjoy your deltarune and undertale videos. I look forward to see your future videos. Both for this series and others. And yeah the deltacast members do great stuff. Glad to see them shout out here.
I always get so excited when i see a new deltarune video from you. Recently i havent been able to stop thinking about deltarune and im so excited about the newsletter this friday!
In deltarune, it seems that spells can be used. Noelle was taught "protection spells" (Iceshock & Snowgrave). Maybe, most monsters were never taught spells? I mean, in undertale you need spells. What if a human comes through? The ruins also has no electricity. They seem very 'primitive', so they have to use spells. IDK, maybe I am wrong.
30:44 In the off chance you happened to be right, it could be at the same time, with Undertale taking place a few minutes later. But regardless how it takes place, Resets are cannon in Undertale meaning sans would have to randomly loose his Memory in Deltarune inorder for any of it to make sense since he only has the theory of timelines, he doesn't actually remember them.
29:48 Papyrus does know Undyne and Alphys though, so he could absolutely know about human cars if they showed literally any anime to him (and they have; he canonically thinks anime is for babies 😂)
4:45 - This point is immediately defeated by the fact that you get enough EXP to gain LOVE upon the fight ending, something that can't happen if the enemy flees or gets spared, only when dying
I'm being a bit of a devils advocate here, but LOVE is just you distancing yourself, which makes it easier to kill. From a lore standpoint there's no reason that you HAVE to kill monsters to gain LOVE.
Ok, 2 things, although it’s obscure as heck there are things that give extra exp upon killing a monster, i.e. killing a Loox after doing what it asks you not to do. Also, the kill tracker in the menu doesn’t tick up after the sans fight. I think saying he didn’t die there is very unlikely, but I am just providing counterpoints
@@aigis0423 Even if you pick on Loox, you still have to kill it to get the EXP, I believe. Yes, you get more, as you inflicted more pain on it before killing it, but you can't really gain it without killing it. At least there's no point in the game where it's shown that one is able to gain EXP that way, from what memory serves me
After chapter 2 I feel like we have unequivocal proof that Sans and Papyrus aren't Darkners, but they're still super unusual and I hope we get some sort of an answer, or the opportunity to poke our noses deeper into this mystery that Toby never gives us an official answer on
I was pretty young when Undertale released, but even back then I never liked the Sans ketchup theory. 1-Sans bleeds out of his mouth too. How would that be ketchup? Did he puke it back up? Did he keep some of it in his mouth during the entire fight? That's stupid. 2-Yes, the color is the same. But people forget that that's ED1C24, which is one of the default MS Paint colors. Asgore's trident also has that exact same color. 3-Speaking of that, it just doesn't make sense that, in a game where most battle sprites are pure black and white, Toby would use the color red on ketchup of all things.
Spamton seems to imply that a darkner with a human/lightner soul can access a higher realm, likely the light world. Perhaps Sans took a lightner's soul when there were lightners around at least the card kingdom, as the King refers to previous lightners abandoning them.
Card Kingdom formed very recently, they didn't build the classroom around it, and I doubt it was created elsewhere and merely breached into there like Castle Town probably did.
@@jobsjobTrue but if Sans has a lightner's soul he could move Papyrus around in his inanimate form, which could be why Sans postponed meeting him: Papyrus simply doesn't want to take a soul.
but sans says hes new in town and the card castle dark world is in an unused classroom inside the school. the lightners that "abandoned" them are probably the kids that used to play with the stuff in the unused classroom. for sans to be one of those lightners he wouldve had to either have been a student or employee at the school at some point, which means he wouldnt be new in town
just a note about the bleeding thing, i feel like people overlook the canon meaning of it, rather than its narrative purpose. it’s a HEAVY moment, considering you just killed the hardest boss in the game and, most likely, your favorite character. I’d say the blood is just meant to add emotional weight to his last few words. knowing toby’s incredible skills as a writer, it probably wasn’t included with lore implications in mind.
I don't think toby would jeopardize his otherwise perfect worldbuilding for the sake of making a already dramatic moment monsters dusting is like one of their key traits in the genocide route, do you really think he would just throw that away for shock value?? he could've easily had like, dust falling out of him, or maybe even having his bones crack or something. blood feels VERY intentional
i loved the end of this video, theorizing and hearing the ideas of others is part of the fun ! extrapolating and reaching makes for entertaining ideas and conversations !
I made this script well before that newsletter. So it didn't actually make it's way into the video. I didn't have the will to start over to incorporate it xD
30:44 I have an idea, I think these things are happening simultaneously. I feel like we will get better examples in the future, but at the moment I can call out a few things that I've noticed. These games could line up extremely well in a 7 chapter setting, 1: Ruins 2: Snowdin 3: Caves 4: Hotland 5: Core 6: Home 7: Judgment. Sans would be busy in chapters 1, 2, and 7. I would expect him to play a bigger role in chapters 3, 4, and 5. With 5 having him arrive late since he is busy having dinner with Frisk at the core. I would love to see him arrive in chapter 7 from the top of the screen coming down though during a crucial moment, like he just came from the pacifist ending after saying he has to make sure Papyrus doesn't get into trouble. But I feel like it would explain how he does it in a timeline sense, not how he does this, but a leaping point for when he could do these things logically.
I dont believe sans doesnt die in the genocide run, you gain exp for killing him, just like when you kill another monster. And while in deltarune failing to recruit enemies can make you stronger, i feel like it is far different from earning exp like in undertale.
Also. I am fairly sure the sound Only plays when we the player kill or spare someone. Never when the fight ends by any other way. And I highly doubt Chara decided to go spare sans after he walked off the screen.
17:13 So your saying, Frisk entered the mountain with equipment even more pathetic than a basic shirt and pants, stick and bandage? What, did they have underwear, a single wood chip and piece of lint going in?
I'm going to put in my two cents on the difference between the two games Deltarune and Undertale strike me as alternate universes to one another. Deltarune takes place later in its respective timeline than Undertale does, Monster Kid is a perfect example of that, they got older and that's why they're different. Gerson passed away from old age. Other monsters look different and have different relationships due to the difference in setting, while keeping many traits because that's who they are at their cores. It's a matter of nature versus nurture. Deltarune also seems to exist in a timeline where either the war never happened, or it ended much more peacefully, although there are clearly still some tensions between humans and monsters as Kris is the only human in town.
There is info against sans fleeing He talks to papyrus right before you level up, implying he was on the verge of some sort of afterlife Secondly, you can go all the way back to grillbys in snowdin and see thet he isnt there
@@No.1RatedSalesman s-shortcuts... and love doesn't directly corelate with killing mobsters, just committing "violent" acts, like insulting a loox or whatever before killing them grants additional exp. and beating sans doesn't add to undertale's in-game kill counter, giving the idea more credence. i'm not even sure myself if i think sans survived, i just thought it was interesting to think about
@@kayak3214 Shortcuts are just sans teleporting Unless you think sans can teleport to alternate realities at will that makes no sense Also sans isn't counted because his death is a cutscene
@@kayak3214 also important to note about the loox You still need to kill it to gain exp Also exp is execution points, so I'm not sure how you are interpreting it as just being mean
I'm only a few minutes in so I don't know if this is going to be mentioned but according to the newsletter, Sans and Papyrus (from Undertale) mention coming from somewhere where there was green grass. Some people assume that UT skeles are from Deltarune, which would make sense regardless of the topic, including UT canonically being a game within DR which was created by Asriel and Kris. Sans and Papyrus just appearing one day in UT would absolutely make sense since they're new to Hometown, so Asriel or very likely Kris would just have to code them in as new characters. I might be reading into it too much, but the whole "new to town" phrase is very much non-specific. It could be a few months, maybe even half a year, especially since Sans knows the situation between Asgore and Toriel and knows exactly what Asgore wants, Asgore having a nickname for Sans, Sans already having bonded thoroughly with Toriel, having set up an entire shop!!- they aren't new in a sense that they had arrived a few days ago.
Well, you do also gain EXP. It's not just the dusting sound lmao you only gain exp when you kill something, unless you're implying someone else died, which I just don't think is true for that fight
You remember that part when you're dating Papyrus and the thing with the white dog under the sink happens and sans comes out with a trombone and plays a little tune? The tune sounds a awful lot like Lancer's laugh. Like, 50% chance that was intentional. Literally realized this while walking in the door and I HAD to put it somewhere
Man I love your videos(especially the Undertale/Deltarune one) your voice is so and in combination with the music it puts me to sleep. So I have to watch the video 2 or 3 times just to understand the indept topic that you talking about. I also love how Indept you go with each video.
10:00 There is dialogue from the froggit in the room after the Toriel chase hall *Ribbit, ribbit. *(Excuse me, human.) *(I have some advice for you about battling monsters.) *(If you ACT a certain way or FIGHT until you almost defeat them...) *(They might not want to battle you anymore.) *(If a monster does not want to fight you, please...) *(Use some MERCY, human.) *Ribbit The "FIGHT until you almost defeat them..." could mean that monsters DO get tired and could be defeated by being tired, but this is some speculation on my part but it could be something, but the monster could have just doesn't want to fight anymore or just didn't want to get killed either way I think it was something to bring up.
The way I always saw Darkners turning into statues is that they only turn to stone if they don’t fit the theme, as Ralsei said they MIGHT not fit in another Dark World, implying they are capable of potentially fitting Aside from maybe the game solitaire, there’s no real way a blatantly card themed character like Lancer could thematically fit in the Cyber World, and thus he turns to stone almost instantly Roulx seems to more uniquely fit, as he is a butler-like servant who desires to serve royalty like the Swatches, and our battle with him is when he’s pretending to be a pirate, which thematically works in a cyber world by connecting to the concept of piracy It’s only when Roulx ceases this pirate theming by “showing us his true power” that he turns to stone, as that’s when he stopped thematically fitting. And notably, his head remained intact and didn’t turn to stone, potentially because he was still wearing a pirate hat and thus he fit in just a little bit So it’s possible Ralsei never turned to stone simply because of his submissive nature allowing him to fit into other Dark Worlds? Such as when he seemingly showed little to no resistance to the Queen making him a butler. Though it could also be a result of him being a Darkner born of the Grand Fountain
Small theory, but maybe his sprite gets pink slippers? His light world sprite is just him outside with white feet. If he goes into the dark world, I could totally see nothing changing except he gets slippers.
@veeyu3219 fun fact sans in official artwork how been shown wearing blue sneakers (untied of course), and blue slippers, and pink slippers, and in game sprite white slippers. it seems like sans has a lot more footwear than other clothes.
Something to consider is that monsters having knowledge of the surface world is something that’s widespread outside of the skeleton brothers. We know monsters have access to human media because of Alphys, and Papyrus in his room is clearly describing a scene as experienced by a human, potentially quoting some form of media word for word. I don’t believe that monsters having knowledge of the surface world links them to Deltarune for this reason This does only apply to one point in this video, though. I don’t think Sans is a darkner as he doesn’t appear in the dark world so far and it would be an odd plot point, but I think that there’s definitely credibility towards the skeleton brothers in Undertale being from Deltarune. Cool theory video!
Ok but it'd be wild if Toby decided to make a third game called UNRELATED where Sans's parting from original world/timeline would finally be explained and why he seems to belong to all the other worlds but not so much to whatever you're currently experiencing if you look closely... Maybe even tell us how he'd return home, if ever.
I just randomly had a realization on 4:18. Sans and Papyrus are the only skeleton type monsters. I always found them to be a bit odd for having such a form. If they are darkners, then they must be created from the actual skeletons... Like, someone must've made a dark fountain in a room with 2 corpses... That's a bit creepy. But imagine what a massive reveal it would be to their backstory. But alas, it can also be made from toy skeletons or anything like that. But that wouldn't be fun.
I surprised noone has mentioned (from how far ive scrolled) Spamton NEO attempting to take the soul and 'reach into heaven' or 'see into heaven' idr which. Though he only implies it would let him go through into the light world it would make sense if sans did the same thing. It explains the seemingly unique ability to dodge human attacks, it explains the timespace shenanigans, and the lack of changes of sans due to him being too lazy to fit in.
hey man, i know your videos about undertale and deltarune don't get much views anymore but i really enjoy watching them so thank you for still making them
What about Susie? Sure that looks like Kris's soul, but it's damage and stats are tied to Susie, and she doesn't question it at all... As if that's how a fight to her normally looks, minus the Soul type..
A possible explanation for sans in the light world is a theory by JaruJaruJ which posits that if a darkner got a lightner soul then they could go to the light world
16:45 this is the old timey era Deltarune takes place in, it's Undertale: Middle ages edition. Historicrune. According to some evidence I'm too lazy to indepth explain, the world of Undertale takes place some 100 years in the future 20XX being when Chara fell, and through many lines of dialogue and Papyrus' birth year despite never having seen a human before, it's estimated that Papyrus was born 2095 (his username Coolskeleton 95' combines with sans phrase that toriel hasn't heard a good joke in a hundred years) and frisk arrived at 21XX. (This is a lazily botched together version of the original theory someone posted about, it's much more indepth and foolproof than this summary)
![Deltarune Chapter 2 SPAMTON [Pipis] (Easter Eggs, Secrets, References & Spamton NEO Boss Fight)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FHeQbitFiSU/mqdefault.jpg)
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
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bro really made a 45mins theory, saw it couldn't be true, then proceeded to make ANOTHER 45mins long theory to correct it and talk about even more theories. what a chad.
Fucked Theory: Sans is Marathon Guy.
Either that or the Heart, take your pick :V
Whether Sans is a darkner in Undertale or not
I agree that he DEFINITELY is bleeding when you beat him in his fight, there's no way it's ketchup
You'll never be touhou.
Lancer actually never comes out of our inventory during the snowgrave route and turns to stone in there, so the inventory is clearly not a safe space that any darkner can stay in without consequence. Although, the Original Starwalker never solidifies during the route, so they actually see what we do to the other darkners.
yeah but Original Starwalker has been PISSED off at other darkners so who knows how they feel
wait when does he turn to stone?
@@marsgreekgodI'm fairly sure it happens after the party finds Rouxls turned to stone
@@marsgreekgodit's right after queen puts them all in rooms. lancer helps us escape, but he turns to stone afterwards. i think it's after we finish the floor shadow puzzles in the mansion.
@@broccolizethey're talking about snowgrave
This is a great video.
My theory is that sans' laziness transcends space and time, directly effecting Toby Fox work ethic causing him to to just copy and paste sans from Undertale into Deltarune and calling it a day.
Sans is just sans in a dark world he is sans in the light world he is sans
This is what I thought when I first saw him in Deltarune lmao
@@MaksOSTR sans is sans
Sans is | si snaS
This is the best theory i've ever seen
Asriel and the amalgamates cannot dodge. Their defence is simply really high. It's just that Undertale and Deltarune consider every 0-damage attack a "miss". This is most evident in Mettaton's case, who is explicitly stated to have defence so high, to be invulnerable to your attacks.
That being said Asriel could probably still dodge, especially bc he can fly, bc, well, god
also Lancer does turn into a statue in the inventory during the Snowgrave route when you enter the mansion
Hijacking this comment to add on: also papyrus and the rest of the underground know what cars are from the trash dump. An entire area of the game dedicated to explaining how monsters know about human things
@@blakestation2632 I was thinking this too. Papyrus even finds his dream car in the credits so information on it clearly could have reached the underground. Of course some things might skew their perception (anime) but the car magazine doesn't necessarily have to be from deltarune
@bruhmanofyear2647 yes exactly, they know what cars are from the trash dump... I don't know what your point is here
@@LilacMonarch yup 100% agree
I think it's possible to actually kill the snowy amalgamate if you increase your damage with legendary heroes around 8 times and do some other stuff. I saw it done once but I forget where
Personally I like the idea that, whatever Ralsei is (devil horns, green crayon, etc), the item is so tied up in complex emotions for Kris that they would prefer to forget that they have it on them, either not showing it in the inventory or including it in the pile of junk
Probably just not showing it in the inventory since, well, you can drop the pile of junk. Ouch.
oof, good point, i forgot about that! hmm...
So you're telling me Ralsei is a hunk o' junk?
That crayon is shoved so far up in Kris's nose that it doesn't count as part of the inventory
@@ZeroZmm
And the horns so deep within Kris's hair that these items might as well be part of them
Theory: since "It's raining somewhere else" and "song that might play when you fight sans" are connected, it could mean that when you fight sans in deltarune(if ever) it will play "song that might play when you fight sans"
If Toby did that I’d work hard to become a multi millionaire, then donate half my money to him.
@@colixart You'd fail. The way the world works right now legitimately does not allow that- possibly even _including_ illicit means.
@@StarshadowMelodyjust acknowledge the sentiment and be done with it
Also it's the same leitmotif as Sans' theme.
child
21:45 I'm fairly sure Starwalker is a light world save point, he was just in the closet when the grand fountain came to be and since Save points are a mystery in their own right, he probably can teleport or save edit himself between worlds or some obscene craziness that he simply doesn't acknowledge the sheer overpoweredness of.
I have no evidence or backing to this. It just is. Just like how he is the original starwalker.
knowing that the save point is the original starwalker is PISSING you off.
Determination.
There doesn't seem to be any save points in the light world though.
@@WanderTheNomad Well, without whatever happened with the core in Undertale they're probably very scarce, and the only one in hometown is now the Original Starwalker.
Scratch that- I mistook it for something else.
@@Solesteam What do you mean by whatever happened to the Core? And how is it related to the save points?
@@WanderTheNomad Forget that, my memory is garbled, I don't think it was ever hinted the core had anything to do with the save points, I was thinking of some old debunked theory from way back...
You missed a super crucial peice of evidence: lancer can become a card in the dark world too, when you deploy lancer in the cage he is dropped as a single jack of spades card. This opens the possibility of darkners consciously chosing to be objects, possibly some kind of "toys hide from andy" situation, a much easier explination for how sans can be regular sans in the light world.
Reminds me how in an unrelated franchise, Disgaea, at least in the earlier games in the franchise, monsters there are able to transform into weapon form to be wielded by a different unit as a weapon. I believe this ability was known as "Magichange", though it's been forever since I played Disgaea 5, so my memory of that is not perfect. I have bad memory span of things too, which does not help me remember some things I want to that don't cause me emotional suffering
You reminded me of a children's show I used to watch in which there was a secret world of tiny people that go around fixing appliances and machines from the inside; they can turn into nails and bolts to hide at any moment. This is a pretty interesting theory
@@ki2348oh yeah I used to watch that one too I think
@@ki2348and the main character always had a pencil behind his right ear, correct?
Oh wow, that's a good observation! You can probably apply this to Papyrus too, as he blushed red in the latest interview, and is thus a Darkner.
About ralsei being able to go between dark worlds without turning to stone: I believe he's not a member of any singular dark world, but instead the prince of ALL dark worlds, thats what's prince of darkness most obviously means to me
yeah that makes sense
also ralsei said the darkners represent the will of their fountain and since ralsei is the prince of darkness it would make sense for him not to turn to stone
Also, all darkners able to live in Ralsei’s realm without issue does imply all darkners born of Ralsei’s realm can live in any other.
Honestly, I want to know how Everyman can exist in multiple dark worlds and is able to get to the True lab in Undertale without changing or turning to stone.
I think Monster Kid looks so different due to being older, Kris looks older than the player character in Undertale, implying Deltarune is technically "later"
He doesn't wear a striped shirt because he doesn't think he's a kid.
18:59 Yes, we do know. In the snowgrave route, Lancer turns to stone while in Kris's pocket meaning it's because of the Cyber World not being the Dark World he originated from.
I'm more of a believer that Deltarune is a prequel in another universe, and while Sans did hop to another universe, that's not just an ability he has. The reason for this is that in Undertale he laments not being able to go back, and never being able to see "them" again. If he could just go back to whatever world he is talking about, then I don't see why he is so depressed.
This is also supported with Toby being adamant about there being one ending and a lot of pushing that your choices don't matter. We don't have the ability to change how things will ultimately turn out.
Especially since it doesn't matter what you do to Berdly. Spare, break his arm, or freeze him.
I believe that it's another universe too, like it's what happens if the first fallen human is the older sibling (Chara, Undertale) or the younger sibling (Kris, Deltarune)
Some
33:52 Actually, Monster Kid as a surprisingly good reason: as he stated in Undertale only kids wear striped shirts, as that was how he deduced that Frisk was infact a kid and not a midget or whatever the other option may have been...
Monster Kid in delrarune is a teen not a kid anymore, no more striped shirts for him.
18:48 Something to highlight is that in the Snowgrave route, Lancer still turns to stone in your inventory.
Found this out from a mystic slime video as I realized that Lancer might have witnessed Snowgrave... (poor traumatized child)
no he was asleep if you check your inventory after berdly dies
ahhhh K, thanks for clearing that up (Dont know when he goes to sleep but I can only assume it's before all of the snowgrave stuff.) @@skorupigo5544
@@tigerbear5845yeah I remember thinking it feels like a direct kindness from the game that if you check on lancer during snowgrave he's sleeping n has no idea
0:30 "pro youtuber" here, would recommend!
aint no way this has only 7 likes. Also hello mysticat!
That green crayon theory is cute and interesting despite not much evidence, but it can be really fun to speculate! I also like both sides of is Ralsei good or bad, because it's such an interesting discussion!
Oh I love that@bruhmanofyear2647
4:19 I feel like that's merely a joke of sans being so transcendently lazy, he doesn't even switch outfits between games.
I wouldn’t necessarily say Asgore is capable of dodging attacks. After all, Undine’s fight is the one battle where you can block attacks instead of dodging them.
yea, my idea is that he was just blocking every spear with is trident
You forget that the monsters in undertale get a lot of stuff from the dump. It’s entirely possible that the car magazine with cars and stuff was in the dump and sans found it and brought it home, since they say it all comes from the human world
29:47 Or, maybe the monsters learned of the existence of cars from all the junk that fell down in waterfall? (Maybe a hotwheel-like toy car?)
Yeah this is the most likely explanation, also we know movies and animes fall into the dump and they almost certainly have shown a car
@@blakestation2632
also its gets countered by papyrus not know what the sun looks like in undertale.
@@chongwillson972 Counterpoint, it's Papyrus. Him being clueless about something does not constitute evidence.
@@chongwillson972how the hell there a thing resemble close enough to the sun without thinking it a yellow ball?
Even if it illustrate by book or magazine, we see that in Papyrus's bookself, he mostly have puzzle making books (and that one children book)
It's not very often you'll see something like this; it's very much appreciated, and should probably be the standard. But, while I'm here, might as well poke a few holes in relation to some of those nine 'definitive' pieces of evidence you still mentioned.
In response to 5:45 - we do actually have instances of monsters having stomachs, ergo some kind of digestive system, in both worlds. In Deltarune, Dad Cat, while reminiscing about the old days with Asriel, mentions "* Eatin' oranges and gettin' our stomachs pumped." There is a similar reference to Catty having eaten oranges in Alphys' Alarm Clock dialogue from the fifth Undertale anniversary; though, notably, both interactions take place on the surface in some way (the Alarm Clock dialogue is post-pacifist). This still at least proves that, as the Mouth from Grillby's mentions, human food passes through your entire body.
But how could Sans get human food if he lives underground? I think you already know where I'm going with this. We already know Sans and Papyrus are from somewhere else originally in Undertale; whether that place is Deltarune or some third world is unknown, but we know he's taken mementos from that place with him. So, the ketchup could be some industrial supply that he brought with him to tide him over, or since he's a skeleton it could've just been sitting there in his mouth for all these years (he never opens it, so we can't tell). Which is, uh, certainly a thought.
Furthermore, we do have an example of a monster being defeated by putting them to sleep - that being Knight Knight, a random encounter in the Core.
25:40 I actually find that many people (including myself) fall somewhere in between, where we see him as definitely keeping some secrets and even telling lies but ultimately with good intentions, and that things will be resolved and he'll come clean sooner or later without anything too dramatic like a boss battle
you probably should’ve mentioned that when the dust sound plays after the Sans fight, the player hits lv20 at the same time
even if the dust sound isn’t hard proof, the fact that the player earns EXP pretty much confirms Sans did actually die there
if this did actually get mentioned at that point then that’s my bad, but it feels like it wasn’t
Bit of a weak explanation, but theres nothing about LOVE that requires the monster to die. Yes in game killing monsters increases LOVE, but its just Level Of Violence. Its reasonable to think that "defeating" sans, the most difficult enemy in the game, would make us even more violent.@@Void_Echoes
If I recall correctly, there is a kill count in the Menu that records how many monsters you have killed, however, beating Sans does not count as a kill in the Stats menu, and the game does not record whether or not he is killed.
@@moondoggaming7800plus, there’s ways in game that increase the exp that killing enemies gives, ex. Doing what Looks doesn’t want you to do before killing it increases the exp recieved
Besides what has already been said, there is also proof within Undertale that EXP is not tied to just killing. In the ruins, picking on a Loox will increase the amount of EXP killing him will award, despite killing the same number of monsters. Granted, you do have to kill the Loox to get this extra EXP, but the fact remains that you can level up by doing more than just killing.
Allow me to add my piece to this pie; Sans shares the same color scheme as King and Queen. White, Black, and Blue. Chapter 3 could prove this wrong with its main chapter boss, but it's been consistent so far in the series.
sans is chapter 341 boss real!!!
@@WOKEchair real
@@lastalias(real)
@@bruhmanofyear2647queen isn’t actually lancer’s biological mom. It’s just something she accepts at the end of chapter 2.
Well . id doubt to call it consistant, we'd need a third one to really call it a pattern, same with the "Secret boss predicts next main antagonist" thing
18:55 On the snowgrave route once you arrive to Queen's Castle Lancer automatically turns to stone in your inventory, removing this point
it doesn't remove or confirm anything, snowgrave might take longer time in-universe which could explain it
@@Volian0yes it does seem to take longer in Canon, we dont get to see Sussie and the goat I cant spell the name of rip hanging out well we are watching behind a traffic cone and also those 2 are already at the castle entrance waiting for Kris to show up before they enter the castle. so it does seem snowgrave takes longer in canon time wise hence why the rules card was already stone well Lancer turned into stone soon as we entered. the pocket may help protect the darkner from turning to stone for sometime as the rules card was roaming for a while but lancer turned to stone nearly as soon as they left Kris pocket. but if it took Kris for after the acid pond sawn ride in the normal route to get to the entrance of the castle in the snowgrave route it would mean by that time the rules card would have already turned to stone which and the amount of protection the pocket can give a darkner is over and Lancer who really quickly turns to stone out the pocket quickly turned to stone in the pocket. also Lancer had enough time to fall asleep bored by the time we lock in snowgrave so it does seem us backtracking to freeze all the darkners in canon took a very long time
sans is a darkner and the object that corresponds to him in the light world is sans
"we haven't seen a battle with a monster end because they get tired" doesn't the fight with undyne do basically that, sure it isn't like in deltarune, but she stops trying to battle you because she gets tired from the heat and running
no, she collapses out of combat, unless there is something unique for being caught in the room she collapses in.
@@lordkilljoy9652 ... I don't think you even _can_ do that...
@@lordkilljoy9652 she passes out from heat exhaustion
Something so many theorists for some reason choose to ignore is that Ralsei isn't any regular darkner, he's the prince from the dark. And even if his role as one of the three heroes isn't enough, he's still the *only* darkner from the grand fountain (or at least the only one we know of). And the grand fountain is already known to be an exception when it comes to things related to travelling between dark worlds, being the only one any darkner can live in regardless of origin and the only one (so far) with an actual exit. Taking all that into consideration, it really isn't that much of a stretch to assume that appearing in any dark world is just a thing Ralsei can do, be it due to his role in the legend, his origin being the grand fountain or both.
Pretty much. He's the obly darkber we know of who comes from the Great Fountain, which the legend seems to imply is the "original" one that exists "naturally", so its logical to think, until we get other evidence or even a second example, that the traits of the fountain apply to the darkners made by it
18:48 actually, in the weird route Lancer also turns into a statue if you check him in your key items (i believe at around the same time you find Rouxls' statue), so them being in Kris' possession isn't what keeps them from turning into statues.
My personal favorite explanation for why Ralsei can travel between worlds is that Kris is unknowingly/secretly Ralsei's light world counterpart. It would explain why Ralsei is immune to becoming a statue(the pure darkness fountain form him). There is a hole in the theory being a lack of a sparkle that can be linked to Ralsei each time you enter a dark world, but it's still a nice idea anyways.
28:57
Ok, you can’t just say they share almost nothing in common just because they’re slightly different sizes and have different interiors. They have the same design, and the brickwork is almost a 1 for 1.
“and the surface doesn’t really appeal anymore, EITHER”
Sans was also "new" in town in undertale, another npc states that the skeletons just "showed up one day" this is very likely no more than a parallel
The statuification happens when a darker doesn't belong. If they're keeping to themselves or fitting in, no problem. It's only once they start meddling with the way things work. Why do you think Ralsei is so desperate not to ever push the player on anything?
It's also why Ralsei's castle town is completely safe. It was literally created to house a diverse cast, so that they always belong.
Interest in undertale and deltarune definitely hasn't evaporated, at least for me!
interest in undertale deltarune does not just go cold, old friend, it just goes dormant until the next theory video comes out
Ah but you overlooked something. Sans is *actually* Ness
BRO i was thinking
the song dont forget has some workds taht tie into entry 17 or are just weird??
"when the light is running low" :photon readings negative
"and the shadows start to grow" :shadows cutting deeper
"and the places taht you know seem like fantasy" :the first time entering into dark world?
"theres a light inside your soul" :determination/saving
.... (lyrics taht i dont think are important)
"dont forget" :duh, sans lab n stuff
"im with you in the dark" :again, negative photon readings, cutting shadows, and gaster kinda being to do with being in some sort of void?
idk, when i thought abt it, it was kinda interesting, lmk what u think
Thinking about how Undertale is STILL topical…
it fills me with determination.
This is theory. It explains why there are differences between Deltarune and Undertale.
Gaster was the one who created the CORE, which used "magic thermal energy" from Hotland to power every home and machine in the whole entire underground.
The sprites used in the core are themed around darkness. Darkness Totems being one of the ones that I can think of off the top of my head.
Gaster talks about darker, yet darker, yet darker. Photon readings negative...
But entry 17 is very old. It has to have been written at least before Alphys took over, this even predating the Determination experiments, although Alphys did so with old blueprints she found... and possibly even before the core was created. Gaster talks about detecting darkness, created the darkness themed equipment that's found in the CORE, that powers every single inch of the underground, lights, TVs, robots, etcetera.... In a world where monsters can use magic.
THAT'S RIGHT! 👍. I am proposing that Gaster's Entry 17 is about him finding the darkness magic that's under the ground. But instead of opening fountains with it, he used it to power the underground since for what ever reason it must've been incapable of breaking the barrier. This magic energy power essentially leached into the underground turning the whole thing into a sort of pseudo-DarkWorld. And this perfectly explains why Undertale monsters can use magic, and why Deltarune ones can't... And most importantly of all... It explains why UT monsters turn into dust when they die...
Dust in UT is described by monsters as their essence. And the reason that they turn into dust in UT is because they are made mostly out of "Magic" rather than physical matter. Which is the same reason that the amalgamates melt together.
Darkners turn into dust after a certain point when the roaring has happened, it makes sense that this'll happen when-ever they die in general, which I used as more evidence that UT monsters are darkners.
PS. (I say that they turn into dust because of the mountains of dust seen in the "?????" beginning area of Ch-1. The sprites are named "puffy mound entities", but the enemies are also called "Wobbly Thing" and "Evil Wobbly Thing" which is why I think that Toby was dancing around the word "Dust" to avoid giving away too much information.)
And while monsters in UT say that they could _always_ use magic, it's ALSO unknown just how long they've been down there... 👇 They don't even know what the sun looks like. Except for Sans, but Sans is a super weird exception to that rule. In fact, except for Sans, Asgor and Toriel, nobody knows about the sun and wonder if stars are like the crystals found in WaterFall. So the history we hear about in books and hear from monsters in UNDERTALE was a fabricated history. A history changed over time to explain their situation.
Their bodies changed to adapt to their super-darkness-energy-rich environment... Possibly even becoming partial-darkners or "Pseudo-Darkners" due to high levels of prolonged darkness exposure, which also explains why they don't have Determination... In fact.. when I think about it.. the barrier in "New Home" kinda looks and acts like the exact opposite of the Dark fountains in Deltarune.. White light emitting from the sides, not from a source, getting darker towards the center like a pulse traveling through a long hallway.
*NOTE:* This is the shortened version of a longer theory which I haven't even commented because I KNOW nobody would ever read that book. In fact it'd had to be posted in 2+ parts because of RUclips's character limit. Which I found out the hard way. :(
You're welcome for shortening this. I knew if I put all of that here, you'd never ever read it. So I hope this'll do. Also I have a 10,000 word count document with supporting evidence for this but consolidated it to just this. Again, I'm sorry! Idk if I should go for read-ability or if I should go for most supported information. Ya know?
maybe you could a video on it or something eventually
Love this theory I’d watch/read if you made one in depth
A great point you bring up: We just take for granted the fact they generate magical power, but what are they powering?
Yes they have appliances but they're all powered by magic. Not from any external source, but from the monsters themselves.
@@omegahaxors9-11 No not exactly what I was saying. I was saying that the appliances and lazars and everything IS powered by magic, but that magic is coming from the CORE, which because of a few CORE sprite names that involve darkness and it's creator Gaster's association with darkness, is likely running off of darkness. This darkness that is used to power the underground seeps into and changed it over time, causing the underground to become more Dark-World-Like. A sort of... half-light world half-dark world situation. This would explain why they can use magic and why certain non-living things become alive. Such as the dancing mushroom guy, the snow man, the rocks in Snowden Town, and the rock in the ruins. Among some others. So the monsters couldn't always use magic, but gained the ability over time because of the CORE using darkness magic. I have LAAAARGE amount of evidence for this, but I don't want to make this too lengthy.
@@Cinnamon9012 I might make a video on it then! Thanks for the encouragement.
I personally think the reason why Ralsei seems to be able to survive between worlds is because he's not just a Darkner, but a PRINCE of the Dark. Given his inclusion in the prophecy in the first chapter, I suspect he has special world hopping powers that aid him in his goal of sealing all the fountains, especially since its clear that the fountains are scattered and not accessible by a normal Darkner.
That being said, this does open up the possibility that Sans is an equally powerful Darkner and that's how he can survive in the overworld. Maybe he and Papyrus are princes of another darkner world that has already been swallowed by a fountain and they escaped into the overworld. Maybe that's what is hiding in the bunker.
It would be funny if we really are seeing a Sans Deltarune variant, but the difference is a single pixel misplacement that no one has noticed
(woo I had a whole comment typed out and youtube decided to lose it yay, let's try this again)
21:52 It's also likely the Ralsei is the horned headband Toriel mentions when you talk to her at the end of chapter 1 if not more so. The way it set up feels like it's even pushing you to this conclusion
When you enter the Dark World you go to all these places and meet all these people only to close the Fountain, when you do you find yourself in a room filled with things and begin to realize that they line up with everything you saw, that they're all objects and toys. But there's someone missing, Ralsei, and just before you closed the fountain you learn that he looks remarkably like the Dreemurrs and you start to wonder what he really is.
You go around town and talk to people with this thought in the back of your head and finally get home and talk to Toriel. If you ask her about Kris she talks about how when they were little they asked when their horns would grow in so she bought a horned headband for them and how Kris wore it for ages and finally she questions what happened to it
Ralsei being the horned headband even fits in a thematic fashion. The Horns being an object meant to bring Kris comfort and make them feel like they belong with the Dreemurrs, and how Ralsei tries so hard to make Kris feel important and that they belong since the second they meet. It even accounts for all the aspects of Asriel (fanon and canon) people see in him as the way Kris looks up to their older brother may have influenced Ralsei's Being. This can even play into story and character dynamics explaining why he seems to make Kris uncomfortable on some level, being the embodiment of everything Kris wanted to be as a kid but feels they can never be
your videos are the only thing keeping me going through these rough times known as deltarune content drought so please dont feel like you wouldnt have a viewerbase if you kept making them
I do appreciate you came back to this older theory and i still enjoy your arguments. And just in general i enjoy your deltarune and undertale videos. I look forward to see your future videos. Both for this series and others. And yeah the deltacast members do great stuff. Glad to see them shout out here.
10:13 I mean, closest we have is the dummy from the tutorial of Undertale getting tired of your shenanagins.
But you raise an excellent point
Thankfully for you, my interest in deltarune content is always high!!
I always get so excited when i see a new deltarune video from you. Recently i havent been able to stop thinking about deltarune and im so excited about the newsletter this friday!
YES THANK YOU! I loved this theory so getting more of it is awesome!
In deltarune, it seems that spells can be used. Noelle was taught "protection spells" (Iceshock & Snowgrave). Maybe, most monsters were never taught spells? I mean, in undertale you need spells. What if a human comes through? The ruins also has no electricity. They seem very 'primitive', so they have to use spells. IDK, maybe I am wrong.
im glad you're still making undertale thoeory videos :)
30:44 In the off chance you happened to be right, it could be at the same time, with Undertale taking place a few minutes later. But regardless how it takes place, Resets are cannon in Undertale meaning sans would have to randomly loose his Memory in Deltarune inorder for any of it to make sense since he only has the theory of timelines, he doesn't actually remember them.
Asgore can't dodge because he can't bring himself to look at you, thats why he's looking down.
29:48 Papyrus does know Undyne and Alphys though, so he could absolutely know about human cars if they showed literally any anime to him (and they have; he canonically thinks anime is for babies 😂)
Great job Greame! Timely video as always! :D
Precisely when I always planned to upload this.
Not a second too soon or too late!
4:45 - This point is immediately defeated by the fact that you get enough EXP to gain LOVE upon the fight ending, something that can't happen if the enemy flees or gets spared, only when dying
I'm being a bit of a devils advocate here, but LOVE is just you distancing yourself, which makes it easier to kill. From a lore standpoint there's no reason that you HAVE to kill monsters to gain LOVE.
Ok, 2 things, although it’s obscure as heck there are things that give extra exp upon killing a monster, i.e. killing a Loox after doing what it asks you not to do. Also, the kill tracker in the menu doesn’t tick up after the sans fight. I think saying he didn’t die there is very unlikely, but I am just providing counterpoints
@@aigis0423 Even if you pick on Loox, you still have to kill it to get the EXP, I believe. Yes, you get more, as you inflicted more pain on it before killing it, but you can't really gain it without killing it. At least there's no point in the game where it's shown that one is able to gain EXP that way, from what memory serves me
@@moondoggaming7800 That's a fair point, but considering how Toby Fox usually incorporates game mechanics into the lore, I'm not quite sure about that
@@Ketsui. meant to say that but was sleepy so mispelt killing lol
29:48 wasn't Alphys streaming anime in Undertale? Cars were likely known about from that...
After chapter 2 I feel like we have unequivocal proof that Sans and Papyrus aren't Darkners, but they're still super unusual and I hope we get some sort of an answer, or the opportunity to poke our noses deeper into this mystery that Toby never gives us an official answer on
I was pretty young when Undertale released, but even back then I never liked the Sans ketchup theory.
1-Sans bleeds out of his mouth too. How would that be ketchup? Did he puke it back up? Did he keep some of it in his mouth during the entire fight? That's stupid.
2-Yes, the color is the same. But people forget that that's ED1C24, which is one of the default MS Paint colors. Asgore's trident also has that exact same color.
3-Speaking of that, it just doesn't make sense that, in a game where most battle sprites are pure black and white, Toby would use the color red on ketchup of all things.
Spamton seems to imply that a darkner with a human/lightner soul can access a higher realm, likely the light world. Perhaps Sans took a lightner's soul when there were lightners around at least the card kingdom, as the King refers to previous lightners abandoning them.
Card Kingdom formed very recently, they didn't build the classroom around it, and I doubt it was created elsewhere and merely breached into there like Castle Town probably did.
If that were true, wouldn't papyrus have to do that, too? It seems far-fetched tbh
@@jobsjobTrue but if Sans has a lightner's soul he could move Papyrus around in his inanimate form, which could be why Sans postponed meeting him: Papyrus simply doesn't want to take a soul.
For the record I don't really think Sans is a darkner this is just something I thought was missed.
but sans says hes new in town and the card castle dark world is in an unused classroom inside the school. the lightners that "abandoned" them are probably the kids that used to play with the stuff in the unused classroom. for sans to be one of those lightners he wouldve had to either have been a student or employee at the school at some point, which means he wouldnt be new in town
just a note about the bleeding thing, i feel like people overlook the canon meaning of it, rather than its narrative purpose. it’s a HEAVY moment, considering you just killed the hardest boss in the game and, most likely, your favorite character. I’d say the blood is just meant to add emotional weight to his last few words. knowing toby’s incredible skills as a writer, it probably wasn’t included with lore implications in mind.
same thing with him sweating. yes i know he’s a skeleton. but berdly also sweats. and he’s a bird. and bird’s don’t do that either.
I don't think toby would jeopardize his otherwise perfect worldbuilding for the sake of making a already dramatic moment
monsters dusting is like one of their key traits in the genocide route, do you really think he would just throw that away for shock value??
he could've easily had like, dust falling out of him, or maybe even having his bones crack or something. blood feels VERY intentional
i loved the end of this video, theorizing and hearing the ideas of others is part of the fun ! extrapolating and reaching makes for entertaining ideas and conversations !
Glad you enjoyed it!
I just knew that this topic was gonna be revisited after the summer newsletter with the papyrus interview dropped
I made this script well before that newsletter. So it didn't actually make it's way into the video. I didn't have the will to start over to incorporate it xD
30:44 I have an idea, I think these things are happening simultaneously. I feel like we will get better examples in the future, but at the moment I can call out a few things that I've noticed. These games could line up extremely well in a 7 chapter setting, 1: Ruins 2: Snowdin 3: Caves 4: Hotland 5: Core 6: Home 7: Judgment. Sans would be busy in chapters 1, 2, and 7. I would expect him to play a bigger role in chapters 3, 4, and 5. With 5 having him arrive late since he is busy having dinner with Frisk at the core. I would love to see him arrive in chapter 7 from the top of the screen coming down though during a crucial moment, like he just came from the pacifist ending after saying he has to make sure Papyrus doesn't get into trouble. But I feel like it would explain how he does it in a timeline sense, not how he does this, but a leaping point for when he could do these things logically.
I dont believe sans doesnt die in the genocide run, you gain exp for killing him, just like when you kill another monster. And while in deltarune failing to recruit enemies can make you stronger, i feel like it is far different from earning exp like in undertale.
yeah he only points out the sound but you only get exp when a monster dies
anybody who thinks sans didnt die is stupid
Also. I am fairly sure the sound Only plays when we the player kill or spare someone. Never when the fight ends by any other way. And I highly doubt Chara decided to go spare sans after he walked off the screen.
It also takes away the gut punch feeling you get after you kill him
2:21 Sans would probably be reduced to a Halloween decoration...
16:55 I guess we will see when chapter 3 comes out if dark world Toriel is wearing her undertale outfit. Then it will be clear
Simplest explanation: sans is sans. you cant change that fact.
17:13 So your saying, Frisk entered the mountain with equipment even more pathetic than a basic shirt and pants, stick and bandage?
What, did they have underwear, a single wood chip and piece of lint going in?
13:02 No, that could also means Undyne missed her attacks, just like the player can miss attacks.
Genuinely thought I was just rewatching the old vid, still happy to see this!
I'm going to put in my two cents on the difference between the two games
Deltarune and Undertale strike me as alternate universes to one another. Deltarune takes place later in its respective timeline than Undertale does, Monster Kid is a perfect example of that, they got older and that's why they're different. Gerson passed away from old age. Other monsters look different and have different relationships due to the difference in setting, while keeping many traits because that's who they are at their cores. It's a matter of nature versus nurture.
Deltarune also seems to exist in a timeline where either the war never happened, or it ended much more peacefully, although there are clearly still some tensions between humans and monsters as Kris is the only human in town.
There is info against sans fleeing
He talks to papyrus right before you level up, implying he was on the verge of some sort of afterlife
Secondly, you can go all the way back to grillbys in snowdin and see thet he isnt there
i really like that idea, but also what if when he says he's going to grillby's he meant the "grillby's" in hometown
@@kayak3214 how would he get there? Also why would we level up if he's still alive
@@No.1RatedSalesman s-shortcuts...
and love doesn't directly corelate with killing mobsters, just committing "violent" acts, like insulting a loox or whatever before killing them grants additional exp. and beating sans doesn't add to undertale's in-game kill counter, giving the idea more credence. i'm not even sure myself if i think sans survived, i just thought it was interesting to think about
@@kayak3214
Shortcuts are just sans teleporting
Unless you think sans can teleport to alternate realities at will that makes no sense
Also sans isn't counted because his death is a cutscene
@@kayak3214 also important to note about the loox
You still need to kill it to gain exp
Also exp is execution points, so I'm not sure how you are interpreting it as just being mean
I'm only a few minutes in so I don't know if this is going to be mentioned but according to the newsletter, Sans and Papyrus (from Undertale) mention coming from somewhere where there was green grass. Some people assume that UT skeles are from Deltarune, which would make sense regardless of the topic, including UT canonically being a game within DR which was created by Asriel and Kris. Sans and Papyrus just appearing one day in UT would absolutely make sense since they're new to Hometown, so Asriel or very likely Kris would just have to code them in as new characters. I might be reading into it too much, but the whole "new to town" phrase is very much non-specific. It could be a few months, maybe even half a year, especially since Sans knows the situation between Asgore and Toriel and knows exactly what Asgore wants, Asgore having a nickname for Sans, Sans already having bonded thoroughly with Toriel, having set up an entire shop!!- they aren't new in a sense that they had arrived a few days ago.
I will never get enough of your Undertale and Deltarune videos.
Well, you do also gain EXP. It's not just the dusting sound lmao you only gain exp when you kill something, unless you're implying someone else died, which I just don't think is true for that fight
I’ve waited so long!
(This is a statement of joy, not complaint, to be clear)
You remember that part when you're dating Papyrus and the thing with the white dog under the sink happens and sans comes out with a trombone and plays a little tune? The tune sounds a awful lot like Lancer's laugh. Like, 50% chance that was intentional.
Literally realized this while walking in the door and I HAD to put it somewhere
Oh, my theory was that Ralsei was a green crayon and hes only able to travel the way he does because he's inside Susie cuz somehow she ate his Crayon.
I'm surprised Papyrus' QnA wasn't brought up here
Ha! Jokes on you! I consume Deltarune content like it's fresh, cool water and I just jogged 10 miles across a desert!
Man I love your videos(especially the Undertale/Deltarune one) your voice is so and in combination with the music it puts me to sleep. So I have to watch the video 2 or 3 times just to understand the indept topic that you talking about.
I also love how Indept you go with each video.
Just started watching, very hyped
10:00
There is dialogue from the froggit in the room after the Toriel chase hall
*Ribbit, ribbit. *(Excuse me, human.)
*(I have some advice for you about battling monsters.)
*(If you ACT a certain way or FIGHT until you almost defeat them...)
*(They might not want to battle you anymore.)
*(If a monster does not want to fight you, please...)
*(Use some MERCY, human.) *Ribbit
The "FIGHT until you almost defeat them..." could mean that monsters DO get tired and could be defeated by being tired, but this is some speculation on my part but it could be something, but the monster could have just doesn't want to fight anymore or just didn't want to get killed either way I think it was something to bring up.
Don't know why I was not subscribed to your awesome content before now but I plan on making up for that oversight. Keep up the amazing content!
The way I always saw Darkners turning into statues is that they only turn to stone if they don’t fit the theme, as Ralsei said they MIGHT not fit in another Dark World, implying they are capable of potentially fitting
Aside from maybe the game solitaire, there’s no real way a blatantly card themed character like Lancer could thematically fit in the Cyber World, and thus he turns to stone almost instantly
Roulx seems to more uniquely fit, as he is a butler-like servant who desires to serve royalty like the Swatches, and our battle with him is when he’s pretending to be a pirate, which thematically works in a cyber world by connecting to the concept of piracy
It’s only when Roulx ceases this pirate theming by “showing us his true power” that he turns to stone, as that’s when he stopped thematically fitting. And notably, his head remained intact and didn’t turn to stone, potentially because he was still wearing a pirate hat and thus he fit in just a little bit
So it’s possible Ralsei never turned to stone simply because of his submissive nature allowing him to fit into other Dark Worlds? Such as when he seemingly showed little to no resistance to the Queen making him a butler. Though it could also be a result of him being a Darkner born of the Grand Fountain
Small theory, but maybe his sprite gets pink slippers? His light world sprite is just him outside with white feet. If he goes into the dark world, I could totally see nothing changing except he gets slippers.
@veeyu3219
fun fact sans in official artwork how been shown wearing blue sneakers (untied of course), and blue slippers, and pink slippers, and in game sprite white slippers.
it seems like sans has a lot more footwear than other clothes.
interesting@@chongwillson972
Something to consider is that monsters having knowledge of the surface world is something that’s widespread outside of the skeleton brothers. We know monsters have access to human media because of Alphys, and Papyrus in his room is clearly describing a scene as experienced by a human, potentially quoting some form of media word for word.
I don’t believe that monsters having knowledge of the surface world links them to Deltarune for this reason
This does only apply to one point in this video, though. I don’t think Sans is a darkner as he doesn’t appear in the dark world so far and it would be an odd plot point, but I think that there’s definitely credibility towards the skeleton brothers in Undertale being from Deltarune. Cool theory video!
Ok but it'd be wild if Toby decided to make a third game called UNRELATED where Sans's parting from original world/timeline would finally be explained and why he seems to belong to all the other worlds but not so much to whatever you're currently experiencing if you look closely... Maybe even tell us how he'd return home, if ever.
I just randomly had a realization on 4:18. Sans and Papyrus are the only skeleton type monsters. I always found them to be a bit odd for having such a form. If they are darkners, then they must be created from the actual skeletons... Like, someone must've made a dark fountain in a room with 2 corpses... That's a bit creepy. But imagine what a massive reveal it would be to their backstory. But alas, it can also be made from toy skeletons or anything like that. But that wouldn't be fun.
Or the skeleton models in some classrooms if a class did a lesson on human anatomy. Not that I buy the darkner Sans theory.
Gaster is also most likely a skeleton (has a special font and is named after said font)
I surprised noone has mentioned (from how far ive scrolled) Spamton NEO attempting to take the soul and 'reach into heaven' or 'see into heaven' idr which. Though he only implies it would let him go through into the light world it would make sense if sans did the same thing. It explains the seemingly unique ability to dodge human attacks, it explains the timespace shenanigans, and the lack of changes of sans due to him being too lazy to fit in.
hey man, i know your videos about undertale and deltarune don't get much views anymore but i really enjoy watching them
so thank you for still making them
What about Susie? Sure that looks like Kris's soul, but it's damage and stats are tied to Susie, and she doesn't question it at all... As if that's how a fight to her normally looks, minus the Soul type..
A possible explanation for sans in the light world is a theory by JaruJaruJ which posits that if a darkner got a lightner soul then they could go to the light world
would be so funny if sans is just so lazy that he looks the same in every universe
I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS VIDEO! ♥
Dont worry, Im pretty sure people will always have some interest in Deltarune/Undertale.
What if Toby Fox just likes Sans as he is so he's just letting him walk all over the fourth wall because it's funny?
guys lets go to our beginnings and accept the truth: sans is steven after not surviving.
16:45 this is the old timey era Deltarune takes place in, it's Undertale: Middle ages edition.
Historicrune.
According to some evidence I'm too lazy to indepth explain, the world of Undertale takes place some 100 years in the future 20XX being when Chara fell, and through many lines of dialogue and Papyrus' birth year despite never having seen a human before, it's estimated that Papyrus was born 2095 (his username Coolskeleton 95' combines with sans phrase that toriel hasn't heard a good joke in a hundred years) and frisk arrived at 21XX. (This is a lazily botched together version of the original theory someone posted about, it's much more indepth and foolproof than this summary)
@Solesteam
and plastic being a rarity these days.
@@chongwillson972 Oh yeah, that was one of the big points...