Echo Chamberlains Doctor Who video is WRONG and here is why
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- Опубликовано: 28 апр 2024
- Original video can be found here: • Dr Who: A Culture War ...
This video is covered by the United States copyright laws regarding fair use and criticism.
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Echo Chamberlains created the worst video I have ever seen. It is clear he does not watch the show and doesn't actually care about it.
18:29 I don’t know how I forgot River in that list but needless to say I am ashamed.
Additionally I was incorrect on the viewing figures on the church on Ruby road. It does include iPlayer views. When it was broadcast it received over 4 million viewers. I think the extra views i cite must come from iplayer streams but I could be wrong.
Additionally at 8:53 when I discussed the show always being progressive with LGBTQ+ representation I should have mentioned Madame Vastra and Jenny Flint of the Paternoster gang being lesbians. That would have made more sense than mentioning 11 kissing Rory and his implied android relationship.
Also I want to point out that saying things like “wrong” “echos right” “your lying” etc. if your gonna write a comment like that please provide some damn proof otherwise you look like a tool. If you can’t provide info and sources that debunk my claims then please do not act as though you do or that you are somehow superior.
Rose Noble is in my opinion not a companion. Echos video makes it seem like she was more involved than she actually was. She was in the star beast and had cameos in wild blue yonder and the giggle but that was about it. Everything he actually described happened in a single episode
To address the last part of your comment, I find it quite puzzling how you can feel the frustration when others act superior to you. But when the actors and showrunners act superior to the fans by standing on their imaginary moral high ground and shout about how wrong we are, you turn a blind eye.
Most fans are like me. We have legitimate criticism about the show, but we instantly get smacked with "You must be a Racist, homophobe, transphobe, bigot!!!" with no proof at all because they didn't even want to listen to us. So yes, we're frustrated.
@@Noah-wf5do it’s ok to be frustrated with that. My comment was directed at brainless people that act like I’m wrong without actually debunking any of my claims
This show is grooming children and you're enabling it, leave all this gender stuff out of kid tv!
In the 60's william hartnell was credited as doctor who, not as the doctor.
That is correct and was the case through the 70s but the character was always referred to in show as The Doctor. It was also confirmed by 12 in (I think the Doctor falls) that Doctor Who isn’t his name after Missy says it is.
The 60s Peter Cushing Dalek films did title the character as Doctor Who but those aren’t canon to the show
Also the case with Christopher Eccleston initially.
@@AnomalySource Cushing's Doctor is a somewhat different character in those, I believe, a human scientist (and not just on his mother's side (allegedly)).
If we're being pedantic Cushing was credited as Dr. Who not Doctor Who.
@@UranusMcVitieFish-yd7oq So was Hartnell for a bit, at least.
My biggest problem is the ending where The Doctor kills all of the goblins and it’s instantly forgotten
Ye, usually The Doctor *hates* killing and attempts to avoid at all costs and feels *terrible* when they are *forced* to because there are no other options.
I mean, to "play devil's advocate", here, he just killed hundreds of one species - possibly even the last of their kind, we do not know - to save *one* of another species. Is that fair? No. No, it isn't.
@@IllisiaAdamshe killed a bunch of baby eating goblins, no different than 12 killing the Clockwork, 10 killing the Sycorax and 4 breaking some random security guards neck 💀
@@RobbieMartin745 The 4th Doctor snapped a security guard's neck?!?! I must not have seen that one.
As for the ones I *have* seen that you listed, at the very least The Doctor is usually sad about having to kill, has remorse, doesn't *celebrate* it, you know? And will *always* try to find a peaceful, pacifistic alternative.
@@IllisiaAdams I don't know if he necessarily regretted those murders, the doctor even admits his no kill rule is very flexible.
And the classic story is "seeds of doom" Check it out its wild 😭
@@RobbieMartin745
Pretty sure the guard survived.
Well, it is a family show, which includes kids. But gay characters aren't inherently inappropriate. To kids, it's 'dancing'. To adults, it's of the horizontal kind.
Hold on this guy thinks the Doctor isn't meant to be cool? As a kid I would wear a bow tie on any possible occasion just because I thought the 11th Doctor was cool.
Yeah. 11 and fez was super cool. I cosplayed him too.
The doctor is cheezy but cool for being themself, there is reasons for it but the doctor isn't cool cause of their attire its how they wear it, how they act. do not judge by appearance.
@@agelessepoch3056 but “fezes are cool”
Bowties ARE cool
@@agelessepoch3056 Being yourself and not worrying about what others think is cool is always the thing that makes someone the coolest.
People who don't like the show should just stop watching it. That's what I did. Began losing interest during the Smith era and completely stopped watching 5 episodes into Whittaker. I prefer the classic era myself.
There's a HUGE problem there with the "just don't watch it" argument. It's something you have investment in. If you're in a relationship that gradually became terrible, people say "just walk away" but it's not that easy. Also should we not want to protect the things we care about? There is a problem that can occur when it comes to things like this when something can get a lot of attention and a lot of people who like aspects of something that goes against the core of the product, the producers can see this and then cater to that, fundamentally altering the product. If people suddenly got interested in Doctor Who because of their love for when he/she kills, I would ABSOLUTELY fight against that because I wouldn't want the studio to then make him/her a bloodlusted psycho.
@mariofatovic6521 Sometimes, you have to stop watching, though. In my case, the series was getting so bad that it was starting to sour my love for what had gone before.
and they have. Lowest figures in history, even with Disney+ figures. Even the LGBTQ people are saying they hate this show. Look at reviews on RT and you will see "As a trans woman.... i HATE what this show has become. Wont be watching it."
I stopped with Bill Potts. Her constant need to remind us of her race and sexuality was tiring. And then Jodie said the show wasnt for men. So didnt bother to return. And now Nchuti and RTD have said "Doctor Who aint for straight white men, dont watch it!" Okay and the figures are.... the worst in history. Barely 2 million watching.
"The Doctor was never supposed to be cool"
11th Doctor: *look my bow-tie*
12th doctor: plays the shows theme song on electric guitar twice. Once in the magicians apprentice and a second time in before the flood
Actually doctor who is a family show so it’s for kids teenagers and adults I see kids that watch doctor who even my dad watched it when he was young
Indeed, I concur. It has a "PG" rating here in the UK, which means that it is up to the parents to decide whether their child is mature enough to watch, because some content may be unsuitable for younger or more sensitive viewers, such as death, violence, suicide, sexual innuendo, etc.
The new WHO as awful can't stand it....Calpaldi was the last decent doctor all went down hill after that
Started fully in his 2nd season where he was relegated to a mere passenger in his own show. Its just garbage ever since.
You make good points. Though if I may suggest, cut down on how much of the other video you play back wholesale, and stick to the key points you're refuting. Otherwise it feels like I'm being forced to watch two videos at the same time.
I get what you mean but Echo goes on rants that seem unrelated to the show and I wanted to illustrate their lack of relevance to the subject. Specifically when he’s talking about the race of UK politicians. Additionally the flow of the video would be hampered if I didn’t include the in between. Alongside that if I cut them out and echo chose to respond to this video he could accuse me of leaving out stuff. I’m just covering my bases
I agree totally. You're helping this guy spread his agenda by quoting him verbatim at such length.
Overall very nitpicky and attacking the presentation rather than the content. You're both wrong on some aspects, right on others, both making yourself look dumb trying to excessively make the other look wrong with absurd logics.
Things like 0:58 or 10:36 are kinda embarassing and feel like pretexts to find ways in which he's technically wrong according to a dictionnary, instead of trying to make valid points. Also, things like "oh but there is an explanation" are irrelevant, an in-universe justification don't change anything to the fact some things were added for some specific reasons.
For 10:36 it's even worse, nitpicking "he's called the doctor, not doctor who" is largely mocked by the whovians and multiple staffs like Capaldi call the character "Doctor Who", so your "i have more Who knowledge than you" is simply pathetic.
Not to say he's right tho, he's also stating dumb issues, or missing large points, especially when criticizing stuff the previous era did before or for attacking political messages as a whole rather than the way they are integrated into a story, etc etc , but you're not really elevating the discussion's level.
I thought it was a video about why another video is bad, and i end up in the middle of a D contest with "☝🤓 humm actually" being spammed every 20 seconds, the embarassing part being that your nitpicks can be nitpicked. Donna's child not being a companion ? except she was mentioned in the show as one, and had adventures with 14, etc etc the list goes on. You're trying to make your video look like it's attacking his statements when all you're doing is trying to show that you have a larger or more accurate Who knowledge, that you're a "true fan and "he isn't therefore you're right". Really embarassing
they're both wrong and cringe. One's too much of a Reactionary, one's too left wing. Both are American, and neither understand that we;re taxed so they can watch this
no, sorry, EC is British, his opinion is more valid than any yanks. We pay tax for it, we get an opinion, you don't
or he is American, for some reason I cannot get a grasp on his accent, maybe it's cause his voice annoys me, I dunno
Its funny because Christopher Eccleston WAS credited as “Doctor Who” in the beginning…
Saying Rose is a companion makes it seem like she’s been in more episodes than she actually was. Heck we haven’t actually seen her enter the TARDIS. Echo just said that because it sounds like a bigger issue than “character who is trans”. You can call it nitpicking but… that’s what fans do? If what you’re talking about doesn’t align with the facts of the video, people are gonna call that out. On youtube, content is in the presentation, and if you're getting very basic things wrong, such as the order of events in episodes, or the purpose of a character, or not specifying your information with sources or timestamps, like Echo does, its not conducive to useful or constructive criticism. Then, you've just made a video stating things about a property rather than proving your point.
Saying "i had an upgrade" because I'm now a woman is just acknowledging the regeneration? Oook dude. You are clearly completely in touch with reality.
People didn’t have an issue when Missy said it
@@AnomalySource because she is the villain and therefore expected to say mean sh?
@@vlastelinprislic286 I’ve had an upgrade isn’t inherently mean. Atleast I (a male) had no issue with the line.
It’s something really minute to be butthurt over
@@AnomalySource whataboutism, then the anecdotal falacy, then red herring/appeal to triviality.
Son, you kinda suck at this arguing thing.
Saying that being a woman is an upgrade is inherently sexist. We all know it. What Missy said is irrelevant. You should know it. The fact that you didn't mind is irrelevant, as your feelings are not the ultimate arbiter. You should know that too. Appealing to triviality is absurd, as you are currently engaged in an argument after spending hours writing and recording and editing a video rebuttal to a ytuber responding to a fictional TV show. So obviously it matters to you. No shame in that. It matters to me too, otherwise I wouldn't be here.
Anyway, sexist comment is sexist. You are wrong. Anything else I can help you with?
@@vlastelinprislic286 Jesus christ you are insufferable. You're like a perfect parody of debate streamers on twitch. "You kinda suck at this arguing thing" 🤓
The dr says every one of their lives is an upgrade to the past because they don't like their past selves. Not hard
the first doctor is the original doctor. just because chibnail wrote a horrible story beat doesnt change that fact. also all of your "refuting" seems to be just you going "nu uh youre wrong"
I didn’t say Hartnell wasn’t the first doctor. I personally don’t really think about the timeless children. In my mind Hartnell is still the first. My issue was him implying the fugitive Doctor was the original.
1:54 - it may just be my head-canon but 12th saved child Davros from the Hand-Minefield. Could this not have been the reason for his ability to walk?
I hadn't thought of that.
He met Davros later in the episode,in the chair, so no. Davros in the short was,as mentioned, pre-accident.
If Davies does decide to double down on that, someone will have to prevent the accident.
That hasn't happened... Yet.
@@AndrewHalliwell watch the episode again. The Doctor has changed outfit between meeting child Davros and saving child Davros.
@MagicMartin666 Davros created the daleks in his image he created them after his Accident when a Thaal missile hit his base and destroyed him leading to him needing his life support mechanism chair. It made no sense for an able bodied davros to have created a dalek prior to his Accident. Timeline wise makes no sense.
An intriguing theory!
Twerking was not joke. He meant it.
Source?
@@AnomalySource
That goes both ways.
How do you know it was a joke?
@@Valkyreon because it’s absurd. There is no way the bbc would allow that. Additionally now that Disney is involved
They have a reputation to uphold
@@AnomalySource Have you seen Disney Marvel‘s „She-Hulk“?
@@Valkyreon creatively that’s a different division additionally it has a different audience.
Maybe Disney would allow maybe they wouldn’t. I just don’t think Ncuti Gatwa was serious
Sorry but the whole definition of an upgrade is that the current version is better than previous versions and. as this was the first female doctor this was shoehorned in for woke purposes purely and utterly.
Out of curiosity did you also get pissy when Missy said “Time Lady. Some of us can afford the upgrade?”
@@AnomalySource i believe many did yes lol. But i think the difference is and this is probably where the confusion lies. Is that although all this stuff has been in the show at one point or another, it was usually surrounded by a really good story, shows counter arguments to whatever lesson they want to teach and is generally written better. The problem is shows these days seem to have forgotten how to write this stuff well into the scripts and it just comes across as preachy.
I agree with most of your points but it most definitely is a show aimed at kids. Yes, there’s more mature themes and that’s why it’s so great, I’d call it a family show more than anything. Not that it helps his point though, the whole reason they’re doing the revamp is to fit the new young generation.
Also I partly hate this video because you made me watch that whole damn video when I stopped at the 5 minute mark before 😂
Oh and yeah, this guy definitely isn’t a doctor who fan. He literally did both the most heinous crimes of writing ‘Dr Who’ and calling him that as you said. My guess is that his only research was watching the tons of other conservative ‘doctor who is dead’ videos.
did he actually say the doctor wasnt compasionate? WHAT?!
When I think of Doctor Who as a kids show I feel like it was a kid show in the sense that kids would watch with their parents for a shared sense of fear. lol
Echo Chamberlain saying "The Doctor was never meant to be cool" should invalidate his entire argument.
The Doctor shoulsd never be 'cool'. He's supposed to be a stuidious, awkward geek, not a jock.
@@Problembeing "Cool" is kinda subjective. The 9th & 10th don't exactly come into what you've described either.
@@HishamA.N_Comicbroe yeah they do, they all come across as awkward, nerdy, eccentric and odd. None of them scream cool
3rd Doctor: Am I a joke to you?
Bowties are *COOL*
You said you had some intelligent rebuttals, can we expect to see them soon?
What a load. The original criticisms still stand.
How?
Please explain
nah.
Chamberlain’s video will age like fine wine, this one will age like raw chicken.
In the very few actual responses (Chamberlain could probably copyright claim this video) almost every single reaction point screams of somebody who started watching in 2008 and now calls themselves a “whovian” because that won’t get you laughed at in school anymore.
This is reaction - but only in the same manner as a knee jerk.
1. This video is covered by the United States copyright laws regarding criticism and fair use.
2. Echos video is technically also covered by that (despite how vapid and moronic his criticisms are)
3. I started watching late last year. Yeah I’m new but I want to defend a show I enjoy.
I was focused on everything he got wrong or lied about.
Give me his actual claims. Please. He really doesn’t make any that aren’t based on his own opinions and misunderstandings
My first memory of TV existing was watching The Green Death in 1973. Since then I’ve never missed a single episode. I raised my children to love Doctor Who. They walked away half way through 13 even as I continued watching.
Chamberlain comes across as a fan of the show watching it in an Iill-deserved decline. I agree with every single point he makes (and so does Missy on the Doctor Who point).
I would never want to chase away or gate-keep a new fan. Doctor Who has however a lore and an ethos older than both of us. If that isn’t respected then this isn’t that show.
right because stuff like " the doctor isnt compasionate" are just so faithful to what doctor who is. what a load of horse shit. anyone who says something like that doesnt get the show. there are geniune issues with modern who but this culture war conservitive garbage isnt one of them . im so tired of seeing right leaning grifters attach themselves to shows or media to peddle their outdated inaccurate crap. I mean come on have you even watched the third doctors era? id hardly call it right leaning . for fuck sake every other episode was a call out post on conservativism and the like? does the episode inferno ring any bells? Do I even need to talk about what the daleks are supposed to represent? come now dont be so dense in falling for the nonsense people like chamberlain are peddling.
4:25 - While 13 is a bit less short than prior revival companions overall - especially Eccleston with Rose during Father's Day - I would point to the "For all I talk about a flat team structure it really isn't. It's a mountain. And I'm at the peak" stuff from Villa. Not anger, exactly, but definitely mirrors the way 9 interacted with Rose over reusing human corpses as hosts in The Unquiet Dead.
8:58 - It was consistently progressive by the standards of its time for most of the classic era. Though the phrase 'leftist bubble' makes me specifically want to rewatch The Happiness Patrol which is pretty explicitly anti-Thatcher.
14:26 - While I'd agree that it's not a children's show (though I'd note Moffat wouldn't agree with that and has been fairly consistent in describing it as a children's show in statement's he's made about it - I recall getting into a minor argument with him on an online forum in around 2006, back when he still made occasional posts to Who forums), I would say it's a family show - Which often focuses on the 8 year olds in the audience, particularly since 2005 - There's a reason the old Fear Panel feature on the Doctor Who website in the first couple of years had a panel of four the youngest of whom was around 6-8 I think (the oldest I think was 12-14 or so) rate how scary the upcoming episodes were, and the show in the classic era had a reputation for childen watching from 'behind the sofa').
Discussion of the show from the BBC in a modern context has been more focused on 'three generational viewing' - Children, parents, and grandparents (notably not teens and young adults, who tend to bow out of things they think are too young for them even if the thing is also appealing to an older demographic - family programming tends to have a lull in teens and young adults). RTD has stated how he sometimes needed to tell guest writers to write it for their 8 year old child, Moffat has comment that he always kept his sons in mind when writing it (while also commenting about micromanaging the size of the action figures so they'd be compatible with non-Who toys when children are playing with them), and so forth. Though I suspect this might be a difference between how the show tends to be pitched in the UK vs how it tends to be pitched in the US.
(Either way, there's nothing wrong with gay and trans rep in children's or family entertainment - It would have been hugely helpful to myself if I got some explicitly queer rep alongside the dead animals but, alas, I didn't watch either Byker Grove or Grange Hill growing up which were basically the only places those existed in children's television during my youth - and I doubt there'll be anything in the new series that tops Moffat having Amy Pond try and seduce the Doctor into bed while engaged to Rory in S5, leading the Doctor to bring Rory along as a companion alongside Amy for how explicitly sexual it is. Not kidding about the dead animals, by the by. The Animals of Farthing Wood was a bit of a media obsession I had growing up, broadcast at 4pm in a children's slot. And constantly depicted the group of animals that served as the show's protagonists being killed, often horribly, including child and infant animals. The first deaths were a newt family - two parents and a child - who were strongly implied to have died in a fire. Most of the other deaths weren't ambiguous - of particular note is the infant field mice who were impaled on a thorn bush by a 'butcher bird' as their mother watched, openly weeping, and their father failed to console her. It wasn't exactly shy about the blood on that one - most of the other deaths were 'clean' in their depiction - Death by a bullet? You see the corpse, but no wound. Not even a corpse for the two hedgehogs who were crushed by a truck attempting to cross a motorway. Or the implication that dead animals in a children's show was useful for me growing up - Watching the first series at around 7 helped me develop the emotional tools needed to process death and grief before a classmate of mine died of an illness when I would have been around 10 years old.)
18:00 - This goes into the classic era as well. The relationship between 5 and Peri feels like an elder brother protecting his younger sister; 4 and Sarah Jane are best friends, there's a strong affection between 3 and Jo Grant, Troughton and Hines played 2 and Jamie as close to an an old married couple as they could get away with in the 60s - Hines has stated as much since. (As for 'didn't mentor you' - What the hell does this guy think the relationship between 7 and Ace was? Ace was absolutely a mentor to Ace. A manipulative bastard who often fell into the trickster mentor archetype, taking her to places where she'd encounter things that helped her overcome childhood trauma relating to her mother, but... A mentor all the same)
20:00 - It does include UK iPlayer viewers - BARB, the ratings body that measures UK viewing and which Wikipedia usually goes with for it's ratings information, has been using 'four screen' as their metric for several years now - Television, PC, Phone, and Tablet - and has been including people who watch iPlayer via their television set as part of television viewing since you've been able to watch iPlayer on a television set. What it doesn't do is include viewers that are later than 7 days (the +28s are no longer made public unless a magazine reports on them, though that's what the industry typically measures television viewers based on these days), or viewers outside of the UK no matter how they watch.
Thank you for pointing these out
I just looked up animals of farthing wood. Wtf is wrong with Brit’s Jesus Christ that’s brutal
@@AnomalySource Not nearly as violent as Watership Down, I suppose. Which until very recently was classified as a U (UK equivalent of the US G rating)
I can see why you think your points rebutted Echo's but they really don't. Like if you don't think about it for too long it makes sense, like saying "Ackshually Ncuti isn't the show runner so he can't be blamed for any of the changes made to the character" is technically true because you're right, he isn't the Showrunner. But for that to make sense you have to pretend like the actor portraying the Doctor has zero say whatsoever on how the character is written and the stories that they tell.
I'm not saying I agree with 100% of Echo's points but there's not a single point from your response that Echo couldn't very easily make an argument against.
This is like Hasan Piker tier commentary, you're responding to your assumption of his points.
For example 12:26 Echo's argument isn't "Why is Ncuti standing up for trans people?" his argument is "why is Ncuti acting like he's taking a counter culture stance when its easily provable that every major institution, including the government of the country he lives is, is on his side" a point that you fob off by saying "hOw DOeS ThIS RElaTE tO thE sHOW?" It relates because his whole argument is that Ncuti and the writing team as a whole a forcing overt political messaging claiming that its to "reflect the attitudes of modern society" when it is Echo's opinion that those views don't reflect the culture but only the powers that reside over the culture. You could have pointed out the fact he didn't substantiate that point very well because all he did was point out that the leadership of the UK, Scotland and Whales are run by minorities, but you didn't. You can agree or disagree with the argument he made, but your analysis of it is way off.
Or again at 13:35 he in the previous sentence explained what's bad about it. He dislikes that its only being done to sew discourse. Again you might disagree that it's only to sew discourse but if that's the case, say that. Once again you are displaying that you aren't capable of comprehending the broader, marco arguments he's making. You're literally responding sentence by sentence. A better route to have taken here would have been not to just play the video in its entirety and respond sentence by sentence, but by breaking down the major points made, the examples he gave and THEN rebutting those. This wouldn't have been very difficult, because his arguments aren't complicated or particularly nuanced. However they are very much based in personal opinion. You claim that he's getting "facts wrong" but he really isn't. Or at least he's not getting facts wrong that matter (like explaining the issues he had with the specials out of chronological order or referring the the Doctor as "Doctor Who", something that was and continues to be done to this day by Classic fans to this day).
Speaking of opinion, his point at 14:07 is not 'incorrect' in the slightest. Rose being non binary (even though throughout the episode she claims to be transgender not non binary??) is literally the only explanation given for how she could survive the meta crisis and save the 14 and Donna. He's not literally saying Rose's identity itself saved the day, hes saying that the ending confusingly and arbitrarily relies on her identity to explain what would otherwise be an extreme plot contrivance. He worded it somewhat hyperbolically for the sake of comedic emphasis, but I refuse to believe that you couldn't tell that that was what he was doing. So this point comes off as an extremely intellectually dishonest misinterpretation of his point
And are you kidding me? 14:27 Doctor Who is ABSOLUTELY a kids show, or at the VERY least its a family show (though I would argue the line between those two labels is extremely narrow and in this context, wholistically arbitrary). The Show having dark moments doesn't exempt it from the label of a family show. There's an enormous difference between the conceptual sci-fi horror of the cybermen (which are designed to be scary) and talking about sexual orientation. If you had spent more than 20 minutes writing this video, you could have just as easily constructed an argument saying that its okay to depict things homosexuality because its "no different to depicting heterosexual ideas". That would have been an actual argument. Instead you conflate the show depicting an offscreen suicide with teaching kids about sexual identity and pronouns which even if that isn't what you intended, is how it comes across because this video is so poorly agued.
I think its much easier for parents (or families as a whole) to accept a character sacrificing themself to save the day than it is for a predominantly culturally conservative society to accept the ideas of transgenderism being peddled unquestioningly to their kids. That is the point he is making. He doesn't have to outright say that because he assumes that you can read between the lines and understand the broader point he's making through basic logical deduction and by recalling the points he made 5 minutes prior, but you're acting like the whole video is bad because he doesn't just hold your hand through his explanation like a primary school teacher.
I'm not gonna go point by point for the whole video (although I very easily could because I don't think there's a single argument made that isn't as flimsy as wet tissue) but even putting aside my own biases, this video is just an extremely poor response. There are far better arguments to be made defending the progressive aspects of Doctor Who than anything in this resposne. It basically just boils down to whataboutisms and nitpicking the specific wording of his points. I'd wager he probably hasn't watched a lot of the modern era because it seems like he doesn't like it very much. But that doesn't negate his point. You can't respond to "I don't like how woke Doctor Who is" with "Uhm ackshually Doctor Who has always been woke because something something Captain Jack something something Daleks are Nazis" because that doesn't disprove his point. If anything it enforces it. If he was arguing that Doctor Who used to not have progressive elements but now does, then yes that would be completely inaccurate. But he doesn't say that at any point in this video. It actually perplexes me how you managed to watch his whole video and not formulate a single structured, well thought out argument. I agree with Echo's video almost entirely but even I could do a better job at critiquing it. For instance:
- The whole video assumes you already agree with the premise that "progressive ideas" result in worse stories without substantiating it
- The video's length requires him to condense complicated ideas into smaller bite sized chunks that prevent him from exploring his ideas in any detail
- He conflates all classic Who with all of Doctor Who ignoring the fact that the revival onwards is tonally and thematically quite different
- He states that the showrunners want to push a political agenda without quoting any of the numerous interviews where RTD has said exactly that which doesn't disprove his point, but was a major oversight
-His ad hoc statements like "eat a bag of dicks" kind of infantilise his otherwise well articulated points
- He doesn't address very many of the typical rebuttals you see against his arguments
and finally he isn't really saying anything we haven't already heard before. However even that doesn't mean he's wrong. It just means that A LOT of people feel the same way he does. And your video fails to prove why those people are wrong to feel that way. All it does is say that you disagree which is fine. You're allowed to do so. But you haven't' proven him wrong, you've just disagreed with him. You basically just go "nuh uh, you're wrong" with a handful of very surfaces level critiques almost all of which completely ignore the broader points present in the original video.
I don't normally even respond to these kinds of videos because I see it as a waste of time because I know its not going to change the mind of anyone reading it, however this response was so impressively bad in how it failed to address any of the arguments present with any intellectual depth that couldn't be condensed into a tweet, that I felt I had to write this bloody novel of a comment.
To quote you, Anomaly, if you're reading this, don't take this as a personal attack.
I just think you need to step up your game and do better.
What does it matter? It's total trash in any event.
Explain
I Agree.
Because specificity matters. If I call something bad without properly explaining why and use vague points then that’s not gonna help anyone. It’ll just reaffirm what people already thought than give them any new perspective
@@edwardreed67 bingo!
@@edwardreed67 fucking brilliant explanation my friend
With the viewers (at least in the US) i know people who cant watch because they dont have Disney+.
I wonder how many of them will buy the DVDs or have purchased the Itunes version
I'm thrilled you made this video although I do have a few things to point out, that will help your case a bit more. It was initially intended for children. I really enjoy how it pushes that boundary of what we understand as a kid's show. If you're not as familiar with the classic show that is fine, although I think some classic ideas of how the Doctor can be loving will help here. There's this idea that they want Who to go back to the '70s or even early '80s all over again. We don't live in the 1970s anymore. The UK is out of its post-war era and that's fine, although I think fans like Echo want those 70s ideals and morals back. If we were not having discussions about gender and inclusion as a society, we would be having some other discussion, good or bad that some people may not care for. Guess what, that topic would be covered in the show, as the Daleks reflect the Nazis and so on. It's a commentary on society and will always be a commentary on society with the idea that you should always treat people with respect and kindness. If the show were to return to the 70s, an era, myself included, so many people love, it would die because it would make it less modern. Also, I love how Echo talks so much shit about the Gatwa era, as if we've seen his first season. Fine, you want to say his era is too liberal, okay, but let his era reach the point where we can have plenty of evidence of it being his era, we've only seen one of his episodes. It's as if Echo's looking for the show to have a consistent identity and it does not because it constantly changes. that's what makes it amazing. Also, we did have a communist writing for the show during the Jon Pertwee era, while his stories did not reflect his ideology, this gives an example of how the show has been inclusive on both the liberal and conservative sides of the spectrum. Persons of color playing white figures of history, I'm eh on. I'm trying to sort of work that out for myself. I think it is fine here, but if someone's trying to make a historically accurate film or TV show, maybe not so much, with the inclusivity rule still in play. That's the only thing I'm a little rough on. Anyway, I appreciate you making this video.
There's three main reasons why I won't be following this new recasting slash rebranding era ( despite being a many years fan of the show and knowing it well; so please, don't use that card on me, I find it petty and obnoxious):
first one, I love it's very long cannon and background history. Doctor who is more than just a alien character doing alien things, but a choral composition of brand new and well sedimented stories giving sense to the actions of that alien character being doing alien things. They have began retconning all those beautiful narratives, in a desperate attempt of coopting the fame ang glamour they had just for covering what it seems to me just a genuine lack of ideas. Being plainly objective, last three season where (beyond who was the Doctor or it's companions) just boring, full of filler and with very few interesting plot points ( and with a terrible feeling of shark jumping in more than a few of them). I bet joddie whittaker would've shine if she would've given the magnificient scripts from the previous season.
Second, I'm not going to be preached and insulted, not I'm going to allow anyone to be preached and insulted at . Apparently being a good role model it's not possible if you are not checking a very long and sanctimonious list of faux-moral boxes. I'm old enough to have been through another such era (The sanctimonious outrage for everything and anything, the "holier than thou" attitude) and, truth to be told, it's only the flags -not the ways- used that's changed since then. It's obvious that I'm not perfect, but none is, so I choose very carefully who I'll allow to treat me with prudish condescendence ( or anyone else, actually). This is a light entertainment show, after all, so I don't have any need to.
Third one: I couldn't really care less if The doctor is played by a man, woman ( or as they said in more than one occasion "variations thereupon"), a child, a white or coloured people or even a K-9 robotic unit. Really, that's not the point of it at all. The main gist of doctor who's charm and personality has always been the sense of wonder and awesomeness that comes from the perspective of a thousands of years old person who has seen or heard of it all -even the most bizarre , and at least twice- without being drag down to utter bitterness, or turning him/her/them/it into a ruthless dictator trying to "get the world right" by force -and he could-. He's a good role model for everyone -even when he's being a little bit naive or even childish- showing us the wonders of the whoniverse through his travels and his interaction with his companions, with kindness, compassion and a very undestanding point of view. But that "show them kindly the way" it's not what apparently have in mind for this new incarnation of the doctor ( in the words of the writters and the actor themselves), who it'd be full of judgement and activism. So it won't be the same character that I fell in love with. I'm willing to give it one or two episodes of grace just , and try my absolute best to be as imparcial as possible, just in case they could recapture this magic mystery of the Doctor.
Huh? Is this an a.i generated message?
@@DJ-LD An A.I would make so many mistakes. It's just that English is not my mother languaje
Thirteen also made the Houdini reference, and we don't know what they did anyway. Could have been completely illusion-related.
Every doctor who episode from know on shoud have a big huge masive dance number
Watch any tenth doctor episode (or any doctor in general) and then tell me that the doctors not cool.
10:36 actually the doctor was called both doctor who and the doctor. if you look at the credits from the 60's it says Doctor Who and not the doctor, later on tho they changed it
Yes i know
thank you for this I do wish people would wait and watch it before saying anything
Bravo
Nah, I'm good thanks.
Instead getting all butt hurt over it, you new kids on the block have to realise that us older fans are used to Dr Who being a lot deeper and a not as simplistic, it never used to patronise it's audience as it does now
I love deep DW episodes. Heaven sent is one of my favorites of all time
@@AnomalySource Its still not a patch on 'real' who from the 70's and early 80's. And thats what the fans are so pissed about., Its been turned into an overly political show pushing garbage, and the viewership plummet has shown exactly what most people think of the new direction.
@@zybch “overly political show” so the daleks being an allegory for the nazis isn’t political?
@@zybchwhat "garbage" is it pushing please?
"I don't want to come across as too judgemental, but" I'm going to be incredibly judgemental and scream "WOOOOKE!!!" at anything that is progressive.
Thay screem woke at anything if thay say a black person or a gay person it's woke now
Two utterly *heartbreaking* romances for The Doctor that you missed (not including River, as you put that in your Pinned Post): Madam Pompadour (The Girl In The Fireplace) and The TARDIS herself (The Doctor's Wife)!
Also, we don't know how Galifreans procreate, but if it is the same as humans, we know that The Doctor has a granddaughter, so they *must* have had an intimate - probably romantic - partner at one point, in-order to produce a child, and then that child had the grandchild.
By extension, to say that The Doctor doesn't love also excludes *non romantic love* which is *also nonsense* because we know they love The Master (they were "like brothers", they are 'frenemies', etc), Amy & Rory were their "family" (The Doctor's words, not mine), they clearly love their granddaughter in the original few seasons, they clearly loved their "daughter" (The Doctor's Daughter) or they wouldn't have cried their eyes out at her funeral, wouldn't have cried when their Companion Adruc *died* (Earthshock) in the classic series (I'm still not over that...) etc etc etc. If The Doctor didn't love, even in a non-romantic way, they wouldn't have *emotional reactions* when bad things happen to the Companions, and other people they encounter in their adventures.
What utter nonsense that original video was. I watched it out of curiosity, and literally spent the entire video face palming, sighing, saying corrections, and yelling "HAVE YOU EVEN WATCHED THE SHOW?!" 🙄😭🤣
Your just making half this stuff up, or glossing over things. try harder, your explanations were laughable.
To AnomolySource:
I appreciate you pointing out any mistakes that were made by Echo Chamberlain's video about the current state of Doctor Who, but, speaking just for me, the damage has already been done.
I admittedly had a problem with making the Doctor a woman cause, just to me, the character has always been male. But other that that, I don't have a problem with the character being seen as white, black or any other skin color or that he be viewed as being heterosexual or LGBTQ. His appearance doesn't matter that much to me - but what does matter very much to me is the STORY/PLOTLINE for any DW episode or chapter. And that specifically is where the current direction of DW has failed me.
In the past, DW had a unique and enjoyable history of science fiction, science fantasy and adventure that I enjoyed. Now all that has gone and been replaced with gender identity and politics. And for me, DW and all sci-fi for that matter is supposed to be a joyful escape from all that.
IMHO, Chibnall and Co. have already ruined DW with their completely useless story of the The Timeless Children (giving the DW audience an origin story that no one asked for or wanted) and if the Powers-That-Be that are now in charge decide to stop making a show about a unique character that travels through time and space to visit new worlds and do extraordinary things and instead intends to make DW much more focused on gender equality, identity politics and musical numbers where the Doctor defeats villains and monsters by "twerking" at them, then for me, and for so many others, Doctor Who is dead!
The curiosity, mystery, and the adventure is gone as they're turning Doctor Who into Doctor WHO CARES. They're taking this show down a path I don't like and refuse to go along with. Therefore, I'll say what I said in a previous post:
To the Doctor,
I may not have always understood everything you said or did but I shall miss traveling throughout the cosmos with you. You were an advisor, a teacher, a warrior and a friend. But now, Doctor Who is dead and now, I LET YOU GO.
November 23, 1963
December 25, 2017
Fare Thee Well, Doctor. May You Rest In Peace.
You made your bed, now it's time to lie in it.
Sure. I like my bed. It’s fun
The doctor isn't supposed to be cool... shows 3 probably the coolest one.
I would like to see how EC reacts to Alpha Centauri from '73 who uses It or the Sontarans who are a monogender race.
And my god people need to recognise that streaming has massively changed TV viewership even 5 years ago an EC is bringing up 60's Who when it took to '82 for us to finally get Channel 4 next he'll bring up City of Death: Part Four getting 16m views and ignore that it was because of the ITV strikes literally removing a 3rd of the channels.
I don't think that The 13th Doctor ever have a relationship with Yaz!👩❤️💋👩👭
I think is a relationship of friendship!😂 Haha!
The 13th Doctor era was less WOKE than the 15th Doctor!😂
That had romantic feelings for each other. They both admit to it in a believe the sea devils episode.
We are 3 episodes into 15s era I haven’t noticed much “woke” stuff.
@@_Carmela_ I’m confused. Are you prowoke or anti woke?
So what about the quote from Donna
Yes we know - we know everything and you know nothing
There all that power but there’s a way to get rid of it
Something a “male “ presenting timelord will never understand
Wasn’t preaching feminism 🤷♀️
Lasts 5 seconds. Never mentioned again.
@@AnomalySource You also last 5 seconds by the sound of you
@@hellboy365bm when you can’t refute something do you always default to insults?
@@AnomalySource lol, here we go again. "Yes I'm wrong but it doesn't matter because I say it doesn't, shut up!"
@@vlastelinprislic286 I think people like you look way too deep in things that don’t matter. I think the 2023 specials were pretty good. I’m not gonna let a meh line ruin the whole show for me
I agree with most of what you're saying, but I'm sorry, the blokes' name is Doctor Who. Yes, in universe its just "the doctor" but he is colloquially known as Doctor Who. Most of the actors thar played them even commonly reffer to the character as Doctor Who
Yeah I’ve been hearing this a lot in the comments.
Thank you for this video
No problem. Someone had to call echo out for his BS
@@AnomalySourceYou're the only one talking BS shill
@@MichaelM28 give me some specific examples a
4.30 - While the 13th doctor doesn't chide the companions, she is very parental at times with a "Do as I say, not as I do" and "Shut up, listen, and follow orders" communicative approach which to a certain extent is what I think the OG was referring.
Has anyone else been recommended loads of reactionary Doctor Who videos like Echo's despite clicking "Do Not Recommend Channel" on pretty much everyone of his ilk? I've been recommended a huge amount recently.
Same
Quick note on this video though: It's not a "children's show", but it is intended for children. Moffat aimed his scares at 8-year-olds, and it's extensively advertised on CBBC (Children's BBC) on shows such as Blue Peter. There were even tie-ins there such as Totally Doctor Who. It's for the child in all of us, and a show which Gatwa rightfully pointed out when he was cast is something "everyone can enjoy"
Additionally - his ratings ramblings show how little he knows. TV viewership ON THE WHOLE is way down. You need to go by weekly rankings, which have been consistently REALLY high for RTD2
@@AnomalySource It's not like a lot of them have huge view counts - some are just over 100!
I suppose it shows just how easy the 'anti-woke' grift is. Get your checklist of woke things and your woke stamp out and fart out a video in under an hour. They're all basically the same only they've swapped out the proper nouns.
all the algorithm knows is that you want 'WHO' content. It doesn't care if it's pro or con.
Even if the Christmas spaical didnt get as much viewer's it came out on Christmas alot of people wont be watching on Christmas especially people who is knew to the show
It was the third most watched televised program that day.
@@AnomalySource I didn't know that that's cool
10:37 well in the credits for classic who, the doctor is called “doctor who” 😂
Yes but in the show his was only referred to as “The Doctor”
@@AnomalySource No, in the show he was referred to as Doctor Who by Wotan.
@@cameronjosephvideos5942that's just one character and was most likely a mistake. In black and white era there are a lot of flubbed lines as they didn't do many reshoots.
Yet the show is not good. Hm.
Just because you criticise something does not automatically mean your criticisms are valid
While I agree story lines like timeless child were not good I would say recent content like the 60th anniversary specials and the church on Ruby road have been a significant improvement and I am excited to see where the show goes with people like Russel t Davies back on the production
Yeah, it's pretty clear this guy Echo hasn't watched much Doctor Who and has no idea what The Doctor represents as a character or what the show represented down the generations.
It's like these geeks who bang on about Star Trek suddenly becoming WOKE and inclusive to all, when Shatner was snogging black girls in the 60s.
Guess what, shatner hates new trek 😂
@@flyinmonkeypunchlad7063 Shatner hates everything. Probably bc he's not in it.
@@flyinmonkeypunchlad7063 I'm not a fan of the most recent shows either due to the terrible writing, but it's a series that had a black captain and female captain (and more prominent female and ethnic cast) in the 90s.
Much like Doctor Who, the show has always been "woke"
Echo Chamberlain?
How to discredit your review in 5 minutes: rant about it being woke. This is why I don't bother with conservative grifter channels like the Critical Drinker or Nedrotic anymore.
TBH I used to be a conservative and watched these sorts of channels (midnights edge in particular). I see now (I’m really liberal now) that these people make no actual points and actively damage the works they claim to love so much
This may sound insane... But if you don't like Doctor Who anymore, then don't watch it :)
EG FUCKING ZACKLY
Not seen the original video, but it sounds like it's just regurgitating conservative talking points.
Wait until they find out about Thoschei being canon since the masters first appearance, and the book that was being written about their divorce
The like to dislike ratio on your video and his says it all alongside the drastic fall in viewing figures. your vid has 183 likes his has 7K bro you are clearly in the minority that cant see that the writing has drastically got worse and people just aren't here for it. You can have valid critiques about ham fisted political lectures and 2d tokenised characters. Alas you think that anyone who critiques the shows decline as noted by the drop in viewing figures must be an "list" or a "phobe" even though we had literally no problem with any gay or black or trans character before like Mickey, Martha or Captain Jack. Why? because they weren't campy parodies or 2d tokenised characters literally there to give snide comments or lectures.
My video has 4K views. He is a much larger channel, of course his video has significantly more likes.
Yes the writing during Chibnall era was worse than previous seasons. I’m not denying that. My issue with Echo is that he doesn’t actually criticize the real issues (character inconsistency, poor creative decisions, etc) rather he criticizes the show for being diverse and progressive when that has always been the case.
Where the hell did you get the idea I believe people who criticize the show are phobes or lists.
I completely agree with criticizing a show especially if you love it. A show needs to know what it’s doing right and wrong. But Echo makes points by misconstruing the show.
11th is my favorite as well!
The bloke you are quoting is a really confused chap - who would like to be a nice person, but has little idea how to be one, also, he has little idea about history and none about jokes. That writes off a very large amount of The Doctor.
I am so glad you have called out all the nasty points he imagines and has misunderstood or invented. He loves talking doesn't he. So do I. Thanks for doing the job for me.
You win a sub from me. My father and I both worked on the show by the way.
This is interesting.
Most culture war talking points run along the same lines. One side wants representation and to reflect political realities, or to show political aspirations, while the other wants a form of escapism which has no real politics or at least is bathed so deep in the prevailing politics that it seems apolitical. This argument goes back and forth, and we understand it as such.
One side wants Dr Who to be all black Doctor and Trans people, the other side want it to be Tom Baker will no dee and a screwdriver. We get it.
Echo's video does not do that.
Echo presents the idea that Dr Who is good because it is bigoted and that if one were to remove the bigotry, one would ruin the series. I think this is nonsense. I watched some - not lots - of Dr Who growing up and I never really got a sense that the classic series only worked because it was a British man who was better than anyone else. If anything it seemed to challenge that idea.
Echo lists a man born in Scotland and says he is not Scottish, a man who has lived in Wales for all but two years of his life and says he is Zambian, says that a person born in Southampton is Indian. This is base racism, and obviously so.
And it is that attitude that he thinks is "Dr Who", that he believes needs to be reflected in Dr Who or Dr Who loses the thing which defines it. If Dr Who isn't based on post-war end of colonialist narratives, then it is changed too much. For Echo, the point of Dr Who is the racism he takes from it.
And from that it is worth noting that this is not that he wants Tom Baker and high adventure stories, and an end to all this "woke ideology". He does not want Dr Who to not be political, he wants the politics, but he wants that politics to be pointed against people he has decided are not British.
I edited the final paragraph(s) of this to make them clearer. They did read: "That is the attitude he wants reflected in Dr Who, and it is worth noting that this is not that he wants Tom Baker and high adventure stories, and an end to all this "woke". He wants the politics, but he wants that politics to be pointed against people he has decided are not British."
I'd love to finish watching your video, but I can't listen to EC any longer. Hope you upload more, though!
That’s fair. His voice and points gave me a headache too
Thank you! RUclips has been trying to shove that sh-- looking video down my throat since it came out, and I had no intention of watching it. Watching you dismantle it, though, was a pleasure. There is only one, teensy, little point I'd quibble with you on, and actually slightly agree with Echo. The Doctor has never been meant to be "cool" in the generally accepted sense. Oh sure, you and I love the Doctor, they're awesome, but in the dorkiest way possible, really. Or maybe they're dorky in the awesome-ist way possible? Either way, they aren't cool in a conventional sense. They are a hero for the geeks, the freaks, the queers, the squares, the marginalized people of all stripes, and have been since the beginning. What Echo falls to comprehend, in his tiny, bigoted mind, is that Ncuti is 100% a part of that. This season is gonna be fantastic.
First Doctor: white! Second Doctor: white! Third Doctor: white! Fourth Doctor: white! Fifth Doctor...
Ok so you’re saying it’s wrong for the doctor to black?
@@AnomalySource The Reality Of Things is hidden in the realm of the unseen.
@@BunkHarvestIII wtf do you mean?
@@AnomalySourceSixth Doctor: white! Seventh Doctor: white! Eighth Doctor: white! Ninth Doctor: white! Tenth Doctor: white!
@@BunkHarvestIII can you explain why the doctor not being white is a bad thing?
I haven't watched DW since Clara joined the show, but science fiction has long been a medium to place progressive ideas and it always amuses me how many people complain that sci-fi is "too woke". How is it so many people lack this basic understanding? These ideas are put into a futuristic show because they'd be unbelievable in a modern show, that's the point. That's also why science fiction with regressive social or political ideas is called "dystopian".
There's no need for the Woke crap to be forced at fans. You say around 5:19 that Moffat wrote some of the best of new Who. He was probably the worst writer and show runner of any era of Who.
I’m surprised an antiwoke individual like yourself doesn’t think chibnall is the worst.
Moffat wrote absolutely amazing episodes. Heaven Sent maybe being his best.
13:35 - we have two options. Be proud of ourselves, or be ashamed of ourselves. Shame is never acceptable when it comes to being all that we can be. The people who accuse us of making our sexuality our whole personality are missing the point. Like it or lump it, it IS a part of us. I refuse to feel shame for it, which means sometimes, probably only times some people ever see me, it shines as my dominant facet. More often than not, I'm as dull and as boring as the accusers.
Please make more these are good
I’m gonna be doing reviews of the new episodes as they come out.
the Davros thing you're also wrong on, RTD said it was going to be his design going forward in the behind the scenes. DW is practically dead in the UK, the only reason it goes on is because we're taxed to subsidise it. It would have been cancelled during Picaldi's run, if any other company had it. The Antiques Roadshow gets more views. Tennent's return wasn't even enough to boost the ratings long term. I'm happy that DW is now American, maybe the BBC can sell it off fully to Disney so we don't have to pay tax to produce ass tv
I did say RTD confirmed it’s the design going forward but that can easily change with a future show runner.
Remember Moffat tried redesigning the Daleks in series 5 but it was so hated they went back to the original.
@@AnomalySource depends on how much they care, again, in Britain viewership would have got it cancelled on anything other than the BBC. You're in a privileged position as an American viewer, that's just how that works
@@Garry_CombineAmerican viewers are not privileged. Far from it. In the UK all of doctor who is available on BBC iPlayer.
In the US it’s divided across 3 streaming services.
Britbox: classic who
Max: Modern Who from Rose to power of the Doctor.
Disney plus: The star beast and beyond.
The Doctor who TV movie isn’t available to stream anywhere in the US.
You pay 200 a year for a TV license that gets you BBC and all its shows Ad free.
To get even close to that in the US here’s how much it costs per year.
Max: Ad free: $149.99
Britbox: $89.99
Disney plus: $139.99
That’s $379.97 a year to be able to watch almost all of doctor who.
You pay $200 and have access to everything.
@@AnomalySource TV licence is a tax, you can to to prison for not paying it, try again
@@AnomalySource you opt out of it, you lose ALL TV and any live streaming service's that have access to live broadcasts/streams.
Wow thats all strong!!!!
Thank you
Jeez - I mean, I know it's just one person's opinion, but I've never heard anyone with such a completely wrong take on Doctor Who, and someone so utterly bitter about a new actor playing the Doctor - thank you for doing this video, and telling this guy how wrong he is, even if he will never actually watch it!
What’s funny is as I was writing this I contacted echo to see if he would like to debate me on it. He declined. I gave him a chance to defend his positions before I tore everything down
@@AnomalySourceHe declined because he knows your arguments are circular, and he knows no good can come from it. Why start a debate where you know neither side will change their viewpoint? At that point your just slapping each other for the sake of it rather than to cause a legitimate change. Which quickly boils down to just saying "No, you!" for an hour. I believe he didn't want to cause unnecessary tension. So acting like you got a 1 up on him because he avoid that makes you seem like your out for blood rather than just stating your opinion.
@@Noah-wf5do it wasn’t about changing viewpoint it was about defending claims. He misrepresents and lies throughout the video. I’m sure he knew this and realized he couldn’t back up his arguments
@@AnomalySource "It wasn't about changing viewpoint". So you admit your out for blood...? The reason you defend your claims is to change a person’s view on your argument. I think you were looking for a "gotcha" moment that you could exploit. Or perhaps your trying to farm views from a bigger youtuber? In any case, your motivation doesn't seem genuine. Hence why he declined.
@@Noah-wf5do I think his video was shit and seeing people act like he was a genius and didn’t rant about nothing for 15 minutes was frustrating.
His viewpoint won’t ever change. I’m aware of that. I was more interested in proving him wrong and showing what he lied about.
This is all academic, no one is watching this sh@t anymore.
Jon Pertwee didn't use a costume department, he just had those clothes, that drip. He was out there with his style, made the character his own and his era like every other has tackled progressiveness. Is nothing new
07:00: How can you discuss the Doctor being cool without mentioning 11 and his bowtie and (brief) fez?
Man I can’t believe I forgot that
Every single one of these clickbait hate channels that have made a video chastising Gatwa or Davies have made the point "it's a kid's show". lol. Doctor Who is not a kid's show. That commonly belabored point alone tells me that the people making these videos are NOT fans and have never watched/paid attention to the show at all. And if indeed, 'Doctor Who' was a "kid's show", why the hell are these angry middle-aged boomers watching it? The short answer is . . . they're not. This is the new thing to up their YT numbers. These are not Doctor Who fans. Echo Chamberlain's voice sounds AI generated. Are they even a real person?
I think they are but they used AI of David Attenborough for a video about Disney
Soon they'll replace themselves with A.I completely and we won't even know. Not because the A.I will be better than any other A.I on the market but because the content they make is such a nothing burger that it's already like an a.i that keeps repeating itself with slight variations that still don't continue or go back anywhere.
Are there parts to Ncuti's Gatwa's portrayal that I feel might be a step too far out of the Doctor. Yes, I feel the Night Club scene portrays the Doctor as too comfortable around humanity, lacking that "I'm not one of you" factor. That alieness. So far he just seems like a quirky human. But so far, that's the only problem I'm having with his portrayal. His general confidence, charisma, stage presence and the way he carries himself is certainly on par with most previous Doctor's, which is miles above what Whitaker was giving. I'm not sold on him yet, but he held his own onscreen with Tennant for his first appearance, that alone speaks volumes.
That's the point though, he lived with the Nobles on Earth and so he's very much got this new lease of life and is just loving life! Humans have rubbed off on him
It's not too different from when the Second Doctor stripped to his underwear and went paddling the moment he landed on a beach in 2020. The Doctor's always been a silly little guy
I love the doctor for being who he is or her.💙💙
DoCtOr WhO? mOrE lIkE dOcToR wOkE!
On a general note, I've noticed most of these right-wing Anti-SJW RUclipsrs don't actively engage in what they're complaining about. I'm not surprised it doesn't seem like Echo Chamberlain (how ironic) has watched Doctor Who - or at least New Who (his "back in MY day" epilogue was essentially describing a prelapsarian nostalgia for the Pertwee years). In large part, it's a grift. Find something that is culturally relevant, skim the Internet for things that would cause anyone invested in "The culture war" to wet themselves in indignation, and spin a yarn about how yet another classic institution is being ruined by wokeness.
The reality is it's not hard to spin a similar yarn from the other side of the political spectrum. It arguably became clearer in New Who, but the parallels between real-life fascist groups and the Daleks have been well-documented. Similar parallels could potentially be drawn between the Cybermen and Stalinism. There have been several companions, even as far back as the mid-60s, who have balked at misogyny in authority (e.g. Dodo & Polly in "The War Machines", Zoe Heriot in "The Invasion", Jo Grant in "Frontier In Space" and Sarah-Jane Smith in "The Time Warrior"). Sylvester McCoy had arguably one of the most politically-minded companions the show has ever seen in Ace. Even in her first scene in "Dragonfire" she's loudly calling someone a "male chauvinist bilge-bag" for suggesting she's not capable of adventuring because of her gender. She would go on to confront Earth-borne fascism in serials such as "Remembrance Of The Daleks" and "Silver Nemesis", as well as other totalitarian regimes like the one depicted in "The Happiness Patrol". That's why I can't buy the notion that, when it comes to Doctor Who, "Everything was better before it went woke" because I would argue it always has been.
I think it's pretty obvious where Chamberlain got the 4.7 million, he just switched 4 and the 7 in the 7.49 million lol
He was only looking at tv viewers not the iplayer streams which added the extra 3 million. He still lied through omission
@@AnomalySource It was 4.7M overnight and in a week it rose to 7.49M
How this makes the show dead I have no idea.
@@TomoBakerinio I know
@@AnomalySource A lie means intent, I'm glad that benefit of the doubt is something we never give.
Who are both wrong and make terrible points to back up your biases.
Watch the new show and make your decisions from there.
You might be mended, Echo - not so much so.
Come back and watch this in 20 years time to see how you could have got it better prior to the show airing.
EchoChamberlain clearly has NEVER watched this show and flat out lies about it AND the viewing figures!
I hate to say this but he wasn’t wrong about the viewing figures he just left out the iPlayer streams which add an additional 3 million viewers. Also the viewing figures don’t could Disney plus streams
@@AnomalySource however he is lying since he leaves out the final figures and ONLY uses the overnights, the final figure matters a lot more as well as chart placement and audience share, there's a lot that determines success! That's what I mean! And these are just UK viewing figures, we don't know what the global figures are, I don't think Disney+ tends to release those, unless I'm wrong? I dunno.
@@friendlyotaku9525yeah Disney doesn’t release them
I mean, what do you expect from someone who spells the show as "Dr Who" and not "Doctor Who"
Please stop trying to defend the ridiculous direction they've taken with Dr Who ... it's just become a load of complete rubbish. I'm gay, but the latest over-the-top camp and soppy iteration of the Dr is a complete joke. Are you being paid by the current producers in an attempt to negate the overwhelmingly negative reactions from fans who've just given up watching in their thousands??!
I’m not paid by them. Why the fuck would the pay a no name RUclipsr. I just genuinely believe Echos video is shit and I wanted to defend the show
🤓
I hate when people talk about viewing figures. The show could literally just be streaming only and stupid people would go "Look! The show wasn't even worth airing on conventional TV"
Like no, TV has evolved, and generally the only people who watch live TV now are the older generations who cant get to grips with streaming.
Do your research. Go back & watch Genesis. Davros was "disabled" & on life support BEFORE the "travel machine" was invented, which was only later referred to as a Dalek. Echo was on point with everything... you are not. The only reason I'm responding here is because your meagre little enterprise appeared on my feed. #RIPDrWho
I'm so sorry you've become a dalek.
@@DJ-LD I'm not...
@@DJ-LD Sorry, that is...
Okay, I gotta be honest. Echo Chamberlain's video is total dogshit and it's clear that he just uses big, fancy words to disguise hateful rhetoric as nuanced critique...
but at the same time, this wasn't a very good response. You didn't really address any of his points directly and barely commented on a lot of it. I feel like someone needs to give his video a proper takedown.
That’s fair. I was more interested in what he got wrong about the show.
Chamberlain's video was excellent. You're just a snowflake
Please. Explain. Be as specific as possible
we need more videos like this on YT, thank you ❤️
I just find it weird how the video they made constantly critiques the existence of Ncuti's doctor for being black when like... it doesn't really matter.
It's been made into a racial issue when like... it's not an issue.
The show is about change.
I like diversity but the way Donna's daughter was done was poor: poorly written, poorly executed and blandly played. The wheelchair bound character was fine but I'd like DW to be as realistic as it can be in the real world when it can be and here was a chance to do that with her and with Rose2 but instead we got more cartoon comic book fantasy meh fair ala Moffat's fairy tale, gimmicky, go for a laugh rather than sci fi realism garbage. Ditto the Fugitive Doctor: I'm all for shaking up the first Doctors but that was sort of boring. Ditto River Song: all done for a laugh and a sexual innuendo. Doc13 and Yaz's romance was not even done realistically either. Suddenly they're in love. Yaz leaves as the love of her life is going through a regeneration and the Doc wants her to go. The companions return but instead of a great big action sequence or them seeing the regeneration: they're at....a sort of AAA meeting for companions who are so sad they traveled with the Doctor so have to support each other with meetings. It's bland, it's boring, and it makes the Doctor look bad. Moffat did DW for eight years or so and ruined it almost completely. scificfanhorrormedia.blogspot.com/search/label/11th%20Doctor Then we have the bi generation and Donna turning into a nasty woman who abuses her husband, gives away her money and blames the Doc and wants to...sell an alien for more money and can't keep a job for silly reasons while her husband works two jobs. What a nag hag.
Donna abuses her husband? wtf I don’t remember that
I love Moffats era. It’s my favorite
He lost me on that "pizzazz" line. Is he telling me that Tom Baker didn't have pizzazz??!
So I am only part way through the video and honestly i am going to presume your right because all these shots of Dr. Who have only made within me one deisre... to go watch more Dr. Who. So that is exactly what I am going to do. Dr. Who is awesome!
R.I.P Doctor Who 1963 - 2017
Long live Doctor Who
Go cry me a river
@@AnomalySourceIt's dead Dave
@@MichaelM28 it’s not. I point out viewer figures and they are higher than they have been in years. It’s fine
@@AnomalySourceCry harder shill
I havent watched doctor who but im here for the drama
😂😂😂
Talk about headache. It's just a show, if this guy gets butt hurt from a show, then he's one of those who watch it in his mums basement while acting like this show was made for him directly. That's hilariously bad.
Yaz and 13 having feelings for each other is no different than Rose (the Rose with YY chromosomes) and 10.
Except of course...
May I ask why because I see people complain about the not even confirmed mlm romance for 15 as it would change The Doctor's sexually but 13 would still be attracted to a woman like the other ones.
Also your little transphobic comment was unnecessary as 10 never interacted with Rose Noble.
Wow you’re a fucking asshole.
Do you have an issue with lesbians and trans people existing? That’s the only way I can read this comment.
Nobody has YY chromosomes
As someone who's never watched Dr Who, the original video appears to be really looking for a way to use the word "woke" to describe how the new Doctor is bad. And I was not left disappointed.
The Isaac Newton bit is completely irrelevant IMO, I guess some people think only white actors can do live action. Personally, I don't care if Newton was played by an Anglo-Indian actor. We knew it was Newton because he was sitting under a tree when an apple fell down. You don't NEED a white actor to play a convincing Newton, you're already convinced by context.
Every actor has re-imagined the role: Smitch, Capaldi and Whittaker's Doctors are all different personalities; I've seen that from my brief encounters. I wasn't too fond of Whittaker's Doctor (it felt like she knew exactly what to do every time). No clue what Ncuti Gatwa is going to be like but, judging by trailers, he's going to be great! I hate the fact that EC is constantly name dropping Gatwa to tie the show's "wokeness" to the presence of a black doctor. Sure, as the lead role, he has a say in how his own character expresses himself. But I can't help but see the trend of those "anti-woke" circles view any new POC face as "DEI", even if said face is already an established actor (who has had roles in Barbie, Horrible Histories and Sex Education prior!)
I'm obviously not a Doctor Who fan, so I can't be the deciding voice on whether dance numbers are appropriate for the show. It would be a big shift in tone I would imagine, and I can't see it going well, but I'm more than willing to let fans debate that one, since it's their show.
EC makes the point constantly that there's underlying queer themes in Doctor Who... but it's always had that, hasn't it? I've seen several video essays detailing the Doctor's omnisexuality, or the sexuality of women on the show, or the doctor's asexuality. Hell, Doctor Who's fanbase has always speculated queer themes, one glance at Tumblr will tell you that it's been a common thing in the community for years.
What "political views" does EC think Gatwa will bring, that aren't already in Dr Who? What traditional, conservative values is the show known for representing?
there is a distinct difference between making the odd sexual remark or joke in several decades of the show and being a full blown tumblr horny fanfiction. the latter being the case for the last 2 doctors especially the last iteration of the show.
@@KT-pv3kl sorry, but since when did Jodie Whittaker start making out with Benedict Cumberbatch? Dr Who is by no means "fanfiction", Tumblr is not running the show.
@@jckistan judging from the last 2 seasons tumblr is ABSOLUTELY running the show.
@@KT-pv3kl Took a look, most of the posts under Dr Who on Tumblr are just general fandom stuff like artwork. Actually, a lot of the posts feature Capaldi or earlier.
Are you honestly surrpised the nerdy sci-fi show about a time travelling, shape shifting alien just so happens to appeal to the nerdy culture that has formed around it online?
@@KT-pv3kl this never happened!
Thank you for making this response. I saw Echo's video and it was laughable. It reminds me of the people who complain that Star Trek or the new X-Men '97 cartoon have "gone woke". All of these franchises, including Doctor Who, have been built on a progressive foundation. Science fiction as a genre almost necessitates it.
Ok, i mostly agree with your video, and im glad when someone answers these bigoted utubers . But just one point. The sixth Doctor was only acting cowardly in his first story due to post regeneration trauma .After that he was ad brave as any other of lf the Doctors . Now do a video on Will of the fans .
I haven’t seen 6s run. I’ve watched all of new who and seen some episodes of classic. I was going off of what a friend had told me. Also watching echos video was enough braindamage for one lifetime. I don’t want to make videos exclusively going after others for being annoying and stupid. I have reviews of the new episodes I’m working on right now that will be out by the end of the weekend
Cool shout out today echo Chamberlain channel. He posts a lot of crap but his recent video pissing on some dude who is trying to piss on the critic circle who hate modern Hollywood / Disney etc was a good video. Thanks for reminding me he exists in this pool of the too many RUclips critics.
Woke rubbish
Explain please.