「花は散るが故に花なのでござりまする。」 桜の花が一年中咲いていたら、日本人は桜の花を賞でる事は無いでしょう。刹那咲き誇り、数日経てば散ってしまう。武士道に通じるものがあるからこそ、日本人は桜の花を賞でる。 “Flowers are only flowers because they fall” If cherry blossoms bloomed year-round, we Japanese people would never appreciate them. They bloom fleetingly and fall within days. It is because this fleeting beauty resonates with the spirit of Bushido that the Japanese people admire the cherry blossoms.
『散りぬべき時知りてこそ世の中の花も花なれ人も人なれ（Flowers are beautiful because they know when they should fall. People should be like that.）』 4:39 This line of Mariko is a quote from the farewell poem of Hosokawa Gracia, who is said to be the model for Mariko. This old farewell poem, which is more than 400 years old, is still loved by many Japan people living in the present day. This farewell poem beautifully explains why Japan people have loved the fall of cherry blossoms since ancient times. I would like to write down here the farewell poem that Hosokawa Gracia left in this world.
Anna Sawai and Fumi Nikaido are great in their roles . I think this show deserve a lot of praise , because the entire cast gives strong performances across the series ⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️ .
In period dramas, there are several archaic expressions that correspond to ‘you.’ Each of these terms is used differently depending on the relationship with the other person and the level of respect. Below are some representative examples: 1. Sonata: A formal and old-fashioned term. It is often used to address someone of equal or higher status, showing respect and familiarity. 2. Sochi: A slightly more casual version of ‘sonata,’ used to address subordinates or those of lower status, with a sense of familiarity. 3. Onushi: Often used to address friends, companions, or sometimes subordinates. It conveys a sense of familiarity when speaking to the other person. 4. Kisama: While it has a derogatory meaning in modern language, in period dramas, it was once used to show respect. It is often used to address subordinates or in strict situations. 5. Temae: Although it may sound insulting today, in period dramas, it was used as either a first or second person pronoun and did not necessarily imply disrespect. These expressions reflect the hierarchical relationships and etiquette between characters in period dramas, adding a unique atmosphere to the story.
This scene was the most intense and silent moment in Shōgun. The true battle between Lady Ochiba and Mariko unfolded not through physical combat, but through their cultural sophistication.
It’s sad that the show is over. But It’s better it ends perfectly like this instead of forcing a second season. And even if there was a second book by Clavell, most of the characters that made me love this show are gone already…
There is a distant sequel by Clavell called "Gaijin" which talks about the leadup to the Meiji Restoration and essentially features descendants of Toranaga. There's an opportunity there if they'll have it
I just realized that in this interaction, Ochiba mocked Mariko's poem (death, leafless withering branch). Mariko responded by saying that only Ochiba can end the games. In the final episode, we learned that Ochiba would withdraw support for Ishido (true to the book), and Ochiba finished Mariko's poem... flowers are only flowers because they fall, but thankfully the wind... she was the wind. She was the final line. She validated Toranaga's and Mariko's fight. The meaning of their poems was how the story would play out. Pretty profound but I expect no less from the director.
In order to truly understand Japanese movies and dramas, it is necessary to learn Japanese. Because Japanese has a variety of ways of saying things in the first, second, and third person, and changes can be made depending on subtle exchanges during conversation. The English translation is just I, you, and they.
I agree. As good as the translation of the subtitles is, I feel that they sometimes miss the intended mark, which could be remedied by the adjustment of a word here, a word there. Not to take anything away from them, it's just my gut feeling.
When I was a child, I heard a broadcast in which Michiko, when she was the Crown Princess, met Mrs. Vining, who was the Crown Prince's English tutor, and said, "お目にかかれて嬉しゅうございます" I was impressed that "such a noble person speaks such elegant and beautiful English." When I read the English article of the Crown Princess' conversation as an adult, I learned that she said, "I am very glad to se you." In English conversation, there are almost no distinctions between gender, age, or status, and whether you are a queen, a servant, an old fisherman, a shopgirl, a priest, or a nun, you speak in almost the same way. In that respect, Japanese uses different words and phrases depending on gender, age, and status, and you can guess the gender and status of the person speaking just by looking at a short conversation sentence, so I think it is a wonderful language. Even in Japan in 2024, the conversations of high school girls, high school boys, their parents' generation, and the royal family are all different. The high school boy's conversation, "腹が減ったので、飯が喰いたい" is a phrase that would never be used by high school girls, their parents' generation, or the royal family. "腹が減ったので、飯が喰いたい" ="I'm hungry, so I want to eat,"
Outside of pillowing and meeting Mariko and maybe Fuji, the potential bullshit back in England was more subtle than what he found himself amid in Japan.
@@MindNumbingInci dont think back in England was any better politically. That was the beginning of Stuart's and i dont think English nobility were very thrilled about being ruled by Scott. All tho its kinda weird for show to mention significance of war with Portuguese and Spaniards since war was already in England's favor and trouble was brewing with Dutch.
As I watched the series all over again. I realize that Lady Ochiba really was cunning. He was like a cold-blooded serpent. Tamed, yet cunning. And the way she talks and moves really is like that of a serpent that slithers. Then you got Mariko who's like a caged hawk longing for flight to spread her wings.
The Oda clan would agree that warmongering, and usurping the place of the "rightful heir" is dishonorable, as would the Ashikaga, as would the Emperor, as would many, many others.
I so wish that I could understand the dialogue without the subtitles, because reading them really detracts from admiring the framing, scenery and lighting. But there is NO way I'd request dubbing.
I have one request. I would like you to depict the turmoil at the end of the Edo period as THE LAST SHOGUN, based on the diaries of British Minister Allcock or Ernest Sato. I would be happy if Shoin Yoshida and Sanai Hashimoto were included as well. Takao Kawamura, Shimada City, Shizuoka Prefecture
Several deeply moving scenes and acting in an overall late Star Wars type of movie. I'd love for this movie to be recut and rereleased😮😢. Just a small opinion 🧐
Great scene, too bad they kind of ruined Ochiba's character in the end, especially considering the actual historical events that transpired afterwards.
@@kungalexander829 Its because her character in the series somewhat merged with the real life daimyo Terumoto Mori, who is absent from Shogun (book and because that, the series too). Its said that because Terumoto did not appear in Sekigahara with Hideyori, the Western Army lost. So, her arc about using the heir's name to not supporting Ishido its because of that.
Tokugawa wiped out she and her heir in real life, so he can become Shogun himself. First a truce with her, so he can order his men to quickly fill up all the problematic defensive moats of her castle. Then a siege, and both she and her heir died. Her heir is the rightful ruler next in line, so he is a direct threat to Tokugawa. It's kind of like how the most dominant lions in the wild sometimes kill off the younger lions that they feel would threaten their own position. Or like the animal politics in monkeys and chimpanzees. Human beings have more intelligence, but it is still primitive animal behaviors.
I’m an English speaker and I’ve been watching foreign films since I was 14, I’m now 46. When you get use to subtitles watching foreign films is far more an immersive experience. Anyway, I can understand basic Japanese, but not the older dialect used in Shogan so much, so I’m able to watch a little more than I read, despite that though I do enjoy non English speaking films! Why do you assume that English speakers don’t learn languages? And why so aggressive by “shouting” your words? Also, like someone else mentioned “Learn English!”
I'm Japanese, but this drama has many classical phrases that I can't understand, so I watch it with English subtitles to help....LOL anyway, it's authentic and interesting!
@@gekii. Which gives Toranaga Total Power. Ochiba knew Toranaga couldn’t be trusted. The entirety of Japan knows that Toranaga wants power for himself, we can even see this in the first couple of episodes where he is accused of aligning power against the council by expanding his fief and arranging marriages. So if Toranaga wins, her son loses the seat of power. She even explains everything that she went through to get her son. So she jeopardises her sons future and life (yes in actual history Tokugawa Ieyasu ends up besieging Osaka causing Yodo Dono (Ochiba) and Toyotomi Hideyori (the heir) to commit suicide, which is definitely what Toranaga would also do) just because her best friend who she hasn’t met in over a decade died? That sounds silly in my opinion, which is why I’m asking if there is another explanation given. Also, Ishido is honestly better for the heir as he physically cannot become Shogun due to his lineage and the fact that him being married to Ochiba (therefore being the heir’s stepfather) already gives him enough power, so there would be no need for him to want more other than to secure his own position, which after Ishido’s death would give the heir total power.
@@gekii. You also skipped out on all the other aspects in the story that make this silly. *She doesn’t trust Toranaga* this is very evident in the first episode we see her. She along with all of Japan knows exactly what Toranaga wants, the evidence is there. Considering everything that she went through to get her son, it is silly to throw that all away because her friend she hasn’t seen in 10 years died. Also in James Clavell’s Book Gaijin which takes the place 250 years after the events of shogun (yes is is the same universe) the heir’s clan is confirmed to be destroyed? What do you think happened? They all just died? Clavell has shown that he sticks to the general way history went whilst changing only the minor details that won’t make much of a difference, if Sekigahara is there, I see no reason why the sieges of Osaka would not also happen considering their importance. Also, it is absolutely in Toranaga’s character and best interests to eliminate the heir. When Toranaga dies, the heir could challenge Toranaga’s successor, putting everything Toranaga did into jeopardy. So to secure his dynasty he would need to eliminate those that could pose a threat in the future (AKA The Heir). Ochiba is not stupid and would know that Toranaga wouldn’t just leave any loose ends (especially one as big as that). The original book had a better explanation as to why The Heir’s army did not fight at Sekigahara. Ochiba did not want to risk losing her son, as if he fought in the battle and lost, he would have to be put to death. However, this wasn’t a big twist for Ishido, he knew this. What happened in the battle was the Christian Regents betrayed Ishido for what he did to Mariko.
She didn't take Toranaga's side, she simply removed support for Ishido. We find out she blocked the heir's army from joining Ishido, not that they switched sides and are fighting for Toranaga. There's a difference. I think she made a truce rather than gave full support to Toranaga. Mariko's death is what causes Ishido to lose, and Ochiba, who wants to save herself and her son and maintain her power, realized this. Toranaga had won and she simply did what was best for her and her son in the new circumstances. She still doesn't trust him or even support him but she falls in line out of self preservation.
This conversation is just 💔
post the scene from episode 4 with jonh and mariko talking about england please!!! such and sweet scene
u could have done a lot more to push forth the dynamics..
「花は散るが故に花なのでござりまする。」
桜の花が一年中咲いていたら、日本人は桜の花を賞でる事は無いでしょう。刹那咲き誇り、数日経てば散ってしまう。武士道に通じるものがあるからこそ、日本人は桜の花を賞でる。
“Flowers are only flowers because they fall”
If cherry blossoms bloomed year-round, we Japanese people would never appreciate them. They bloom fleetingly and fall within days. It is because this fleeting beauty resonates with the spirit of Bushido that the Japanese people admire the cherry blossoms.
『散りぬべき時知りてこそ世の中の花も花なれ人も人なれ（Flowers are beautiful because they know when they should fall. People should be like that.）』
4:39 This line of Mariko is a quote from the farewell poem of Hosokawa Gracia, who is said to be the model for Mariko. This old farewell poem, which is more than 400 years old, is still loved by many Japan people living in the present day. This farewell poem beautifully explains why Japan people have loved the fall of cherry blossoms since ancient times. I would like to write down here the farewell poem that Hosokawa Gracia left in this world.
"Flowers are only Flowers cause they Fall." Such poinyet beautiful sentiment.🌸
花も花なれ…ガラシャの辞世の句です。明智家の家紋が桔梗なので女性の自分と明智家の両方を踏まえての「花」だと言われています。
We haven't heard from the actress playing Lady Ochiba. I would love to hear her perspective on her role and on this scene.
she did some interviews in japan
Copy-pasting her name in japanese can bring up interviews about this role.
Beautiful & Historical Japanese Culture is Wonderful‼️‼️😊😊👍👍㊗️㊗️㊗️
Now I understand why Shogùn won all the major Emmy awards! Love it!❤❤❤
Anna Sawai and Fumi Nikaido are great in their roles . I think this show deserve a lot of praise , because the entire cast gives strong performances across the series ⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️ .
In period dramas, there are several archaic expressions that correspond to ‘you.’ Each of these terms is used differently depending on the relationship with the other person and the level of respect. Below are some representative examples:
1. Sonata: A formal and old-fashioned term. It is often used to address someone of equal or higher status, showing respect and familiarity.
2. Sochi: A slightly more casual version of ‘sonata,’ used to address subordinates or those of lower status, with a sense of familiarity.
3. Onushi: Often used to address friends, companions, or sometimes subordinates. It conveys a sense of familiarity when speaking to the other person.
4. Kisama: While it has a derogatory meaning in modern language, in period dramas, it was once used to show respect. It is often used to address subordinates or in strict situations.
5. Temae: Although it may sound insulting today, in period dramas, it was used as either a first or second person pronoun and did not necessarily imply disrespect.
These expressions reflect the hierarchical relationships and etiquette between characters in period dramas, adding a unique atmosphere to the story.
At 0:42 Love how you can see Ochiba's face soften when she sees Mirako
Two friends, torn apart by forces outside of their control. If I may say, victims of circumstances who rolled with the flow.
One of my favorite scenes in the show.
This scene was the most intense and silent moment in Shōgun. The true battle between Lady Ochiba and Mariko unfolded not through physical combat, but through their cultural sophistication.
It’s sad that the show is over. But It’s better it ends perfectly like this instead of forcing a second season. And even if there was a second book by Clavell, most of the characters that made me love this show are gone already…
There is a distant sequel by Clavell called "Gaijin" which talks about the leadup to the Meiji Restoration and essentially features descendants of Toranaga. There's an opportunity there if they'll have it
Lady Ochiba is based on the real-life Yodo-dono.
beautifully spoken Japanese here thank you
I love how Ochiba’s character developed. At first, she appeared to be purely cold and ruthless.
I just realized that in this interaction, Ochiba mocked Mariko's poem (death, leafless withering branch). Mariko responded by saying that only Ochiba can end the games. In the final episode, we learned that Ochiba would withdraw support for Ishido (true to the book), and Ochiba finished Mariko's poem... flowers are only flowers because they fall, but thankfully the wind... she was the wind. She was the final line. She validated Toranaga's and Mariko's fight. The meaning of their poems was how the story would play out. Pretty profound but I expect no less from the director.
It's just a mother willing to do whatever it takes to protect her own son. Even by becoming a cold-hearted monster.
@@muellerfm3868 also adds more insight to Toranaga's line "I don't control the wind, I only study it"
One of the best scene ❤ fumi just nailed it with one drop of tear
Brilliant.....just brilliant 👌
I love how Blackthorne just started walking when she said it was time to go.
In order to truly understand Japanese movies and dramas, it is necessary to learn Japanese. Because Japanese has a variety of ways of saying things in the first, second, and third person, and changes can be made depending on subtle exchanges during conversation. The English translation is just I, you, and they.
I agree. As good as the translation of the subtitles is, I feel that they sometimes miss the intended mark, which could be remedied by the adjustment of a word here, a word there.
Not to take anything away from them, it's just my gut feeling.
When I was a child, I heard a broadcast in which Michiko, when she was the Crown Princess, met Mrs. Vining, who was the Crown Prince's English tutor, and said, "お目にかかれて嬉しゅうございます" I was impressed that "such a noble person speaks such elegant and beautiful English." When I read the English article of the Crown Princess' conversation as an adult, I learned that she said, "I am very glad to se you." In English conversation, there are almost no distinctions between gender, age, or status, and whether you are a queen, a servant, an old fisherman, a shopgirl, a priest, or a nun, you speak in almost the same way. In that respect, Japanese uses different words and phrases depending on gender, age, and status, and you can guess the gender and status of the person speaking just by looking at a short conversation sentence, so I think it is a wonderful language. Even in Japan in 2024, the conversations of high school girls, high school boys, their parents' generation, and the royal family are all different. The high school boy's conversation, "腹が減ったので、飯が喰いたい" is a phrase that would never be used by high school girls, their parents' generation, or the royal family.
"腹が減ったので、飯が喰いたい" ="I'm hungry, so I want to eat,"
花は散るが故に花なので御座いまする。
なんていい言葉🌸😢
侘び寂びー！
4:03 ココすげぇ
散りぬべき時知りてこそ
世の中の
花も花なれ人も人なれ
この世の花は散り際を心得ているからこそ
美しいのです。
花は散るがゆえに花なのです。
花もまた
わかれん春は思ひ出でよ
咲き散るたびの心づくしを
God, this is heartbreaking. Such a beautiful poem. Thank you.
How the Japanese language sounds is amazing!!! I would love to be able to speak it!!!
Ochiba’s actress is well known in jdramas
precense is most keenly felt in it's absence.
Kiku said so, too (#6 episode)
Poor John, he’s ready to bolt out of there away from the drama.
Outside of pillowing and meeting Mariko and maybe Fuji, the potential bullshit back in England was more subtle than what he found himself amid in Japan.
@@MindNumbingInci dont think back in England was any better politically. That was the beginning of Stuart's and i dont think English nobility were very thrilled about being ruled by Scott. All tho its kinda weird for show to mention significance of war with Portuguese and Spaniards since war was already in England's favor and trouble was brewing with Dutch.
Ochiba is HOT
As I watched the series all over again. I realize that Lady Ochiba really was cunning. He was like a cold-blooded serpent. Tamed, yet cunning. And the way she talks and moves really is like that of a serpent that slithers. Then you got Mariko who's like a caged hawk longing for flight to spread her wings.
Its funny that John just bolted outta there😅when Mariko said We should go now, like no bowing im done with this drama😂
The Oda clan would agree that warmongering, and usurping the place of the "rightful heir" is dishonorable, as would the Ashikaga, as would the Emperor, as would many, many others.
Mariko is just so dame fine!!
Her & Lady Ochiba.
I so wish that I could understand the dialogue without the subtitles, because reading them really detracts from admiring the framing, scenery and lighting. But there is NO way I'd request dubbing.
I have one request.
I would like you to depict the turmoil at the end of the Edo period as THE LAST SHOGUN, based on the diaries of British Minister Allcock or Ernest Sato.
I would be happy if Shoin Yoshida and Sanai Hashimoto were included as well.
Takao Kawamura, Shimada City, Shizuoka Prefecture
Several deeply moving scenes and acting in an overall late Star Wars type of movie. I'd love for this movie to be recut and rereleased😮😢. Just a small opinion 🧐
🥺💔
I'll just leave you with that little insight.... :(
I don't quite understand the part why Mariko said to Ochiba "Aren't you tired of this?" and why Mariko said Ochiba is a 'leafless branch'?
The homophones of Ochiba is “falling leaves” in Japanese.
「男たちを使った、憎しみや裏切りだらけの駆け引きはもう終わりにしませんか？」
「後継者とはいえ、不安定で何の保証もない幼い我が子しかない自分にとって、それ以外に何ができる？ このまま枯れ枝のように朽ち果てろと言うのか？」
……と言っている。
二階堂ふみの演技が光っている。個人的には二階堂と宮崎あおいでやってほしかった。
Is this conversation in the book? I don't remember it.
Nope...
Another ninja playing by the rock..
Anjin: If i play my cards right theres a potential 3 way here
Coomer detected
Bro had his chance in the Willow World but gobbled its balls.
Great scene, too bad they kind of ruined Ochiba's character in the end, especially considering the actual historical events that transpired afterwards.
Didnt real life ochiba also made somewhat of a truce to the real life toranaga?
@@kungalexander829 Its because her character in the series somewhat merged with the real life daimyo Terumoto Mori, who is absent from Shogun (book and because that, the series too). Its said that because Terumoto did not appear in Sekigahara with Hideyori, the Western Army lost. So, her arc about using the heir's name to not supporting Ishido its because of that.
Tokugawa wiped out she and her heir in real life, so he can become Shogun himself. First a truce with her, so he can order his men to quickly fill up all the problematic defensive moats of her castle. Then a siege, and both she and her heir died. Her heir is the rightful ruler next in line, so he is a direct threat to Tokugawa. It's kind of like how the most dominant lions in the wild sometimes kill off the younger lions that they feel would threaten their own position. Or like the animal politics in monkeys and chimpanzees. Human beings have more intelligence, but it is still primitive animal behaviors.
Now english speaker taste a bit what's like to be non english speaker... READ THAT SUBTITLE!!!
People who only understand English will never know the wonderful world that exists elsewhere. They are pitiful people.
Learn Engrish
I’m an English speaker and I’ve been watching foreign films since I was 14, I’m now 46.
When you get use to subtitles watching foreign films is far more an immersive experience.
Anyway, I can understand basic Japanese, but not the older dialect used in Shogan so much, so I’m able to watch a little more than I read, despite that though I do enjoy non English speaking films!
Why do you assume that English speakers don’t learn languages? And why so aggressive by “shouting” your words?
Also, like someone else mentioned “Learn English!”
shamfur dispray!
same flawed thinking as the film Troy where Achilles speaks of envious gods.... such discourse exists in our fiction not without reason...
I'm Japanese, but this drama has many classical phrases that I can't understand, so I watch it with English subtitles to help....LOL anyway, it's authentic and interesting!
私も日本語の字幕が必要でした😂
まじか……それは残念。
One thing I still dont understand is why would Ochiba take Toranaga’s side just because of Mariko’s death? It makes no sense.
Mariko is dead because of ishido, so ochiba switches sides just to kill ishido
@@gekii. Which gives Toranaga Total Power. Ochiba knew Toranaga couldn’t be trusted. The entirety of Japan knows that Toranaga wants power for himself, we can even see this in the first couple of episodes where he is accused of aligning power against the council by expanding his fief and arranging marriages. So if Toranaga wins, her son loses the seat of power. She even explains everything that she went through to get her son. So she jeopardises her sons future and life (yes in actual history Tokugawa Ieyasu ends up besieging Osaka causing Yodo Dono (Ochiba) and Toyotomi Hideyori (the heir) to commit suicide, which is definitely what Toranaga would also do) just because her best friend who she hasn’t met in over a decade died? That sounds silly in my opinion, which is why I’m asking if there is another explanation given. Also, Ishido is honestly better for the heir as he physically cannot become Shogun due to his lineage and the fact that him being married to Ochiba (therefore being the heir’s stepfather) already gives him enough power, so there would be no need for him to want more other than to secure his own position, which after Ishido’s death would give the heir total power.
@@TheGhost-7002 feel free to interpret, you can stick to the history if you want, or add a bit of fiction to them.
@@gekii. You also skipped out on all the other aspects in the story that make this silly. *She doesn’t trust Toranaga* this is very evident in the first episode we see her. She along with all of Japan knows exactly what Toranaga wants, the evidence is there. Considering everything that she went through to get her son, it is silly to throw that all away because her friend she hasn’t seen in 10 years died. Also in James Clavell’s Book Gaijin which takes the place 250 years after the events of shogun (yes is is the same universe) the heir’s clan is confirmed to be destroyed? What do you think happened? They all just died? Clavell has shown that he sticks to the general way history went whilst changing only the minor details that won’t make much of a difference, if Sekigahara is there, I see no reason why the sieges of Osaka would not also happen considering their importance. Also, it is absolutely in Toranaga’s character and best interests to eliminate the heir. When Toranaga dies, the heir could challenge Toranaga’s successor, putting everything Toranaga did into jeopardy. So to secure his dynasty he would need to eliminate those that could pose a threat in the future (AKA The Heir). Ochiba is not stupid and would know that Toranaga wouldn’t just leave any loose ends (especially one as big as that).
The original book had a better explanation as to why The Heir’s army did not fight at Sekigahara. Ochiba did not want to risk losing her son, as if he fought in the battle and lost, he would have to be put to death. However, this wasn’t a big twist for Ishido, he knew this. What happened in the battle was the Christian Regents betrayed Ishido for what he did to Mariko.
She didn't take Toranaga's side, she simply removed support for Ishido. We find out she blocked the heir's army from joining Ishido, not that they switched sides and are fighting for Toranaga. There's a difference. I think she made a truce rather than gave full support to Toranaga. Mariko's death is what causes Ishido to lose, and Ochiba, who wants to save herself and her son and maintain her power, realized this. Toranaga had won and she simply did what was best for her and her son in the new circumstances. She still doesn't trust him or even support him but she falls in line out of self preservation.
足軽と織田信長の結婚。相当屈辱であったと思う。
農民の徴収兵の話し。
Davis Jose Smith Kimberly Jones Jennifer
Acting is top notch!
ハラキリ、フジヤマ、ゲイシャ😂😂😂