It's worth mentioning that you can pin mod the Taulatin to make it work with most motherboards, just remove three pins and bridge two wires :) works well with Via 133 Apollo boards for instance
I bought one of the modified III-s Tualatins from South Korea. Though my Slot 1 motherboard supports 133Mhz FSB and runs just fine at 1200Mhz (133x9) on my VIA C3 it will not run the Tualatin at 133 FSB. This is using an MS-6905 slotket for both. Just something to keep in mind.
LOL I can remember doing that back in the day with a 1.2Ghz Celly Tualatin on an Abit SE6 Rev 2 and then overclocking it to 1.6Ghz for the rest of it's life. I can remember these Tualatins were outperforming the first P4's at that time in games.
Impressive results...I didn't expect such a big performance boost comparing it to the 1000EB coppermine! It would be very interesting to see performance against early P4 cpu's also.
As far as I can remember the PIII-S absolutely destroys the early P4 CPU's in many many benchmarks and tasks. Especially ones that weren't memory sensitive. Not 100% sure about this but I believe the Pentium III-S was more tuned for application in mobile systems in a time when the 'Banias' Pentium M's weren't quite ready for market and the Pentium 4 hadn't a good mobile counterpart yet. (If there were any good Pentium 4 M's, those were always a joke.) About the Pentium M, it was heavily based on the PIII architecture and included the good elements of the P4. A really streamlined CPU.
I was given a laptop with a Pentium M 755 (2.0 GHz). The Machine felt highly streamlined: fast boot time, with applications feeling very responsive. Amazed how well the architecture performs even to the point of competing well with AMD's Athlon 64 depending on the workload. Some nostalgia if anyone's interested: www.anandtech.com/show/1399
The Intel Pentium III-S at 1.4Ghz and with the 512KB cache will really put some hurting on even the 2.0Ghz P4s despite lacking SSE2 in those early days no different from how AMD's 1.4Ghz Athlon was also able to do the same... You can see why Intel made a particular chipset requirement which meant locking out the PIII motherboards from Intel that had RDRAM which would have further exposed something weak about the P4s which was actually exposed by the mainstream PC media when they used the Intel Pentium-M (essentially a hidden PIII architecture) meant for mobile solutions as a desktop CPU... Not saying that Netburst and P4s were bad but the story was that P4s were supposed to get faster when they hit higher clock speeds beyond 3.2Ghz and arguably even the 3.7Ghz which were P4s that were also locked out of running on Dual Channel RDRAM motherboard set ups... because RDRAM did have higher performance the higher the CPU clocks and smaller die shrinks allowed.
I still have a few of the Pentium 3s and the Celeron variant. I found delidding them a good way to get them to work with old school heat sinks. I remember bringing my dual P3 to Lan parties back in the day and getting all excited.
Especially with some of the early P4 era Celerons as well. I used to have a 2.4GHz Celeron which I overclocked right up to 3Ghz pretty stable and 3.2Ghz with some issues. Used to game on it back in the 2000s.
A 1400 Tualatin with full 512k cache is around a 1.7-2.0 GHz Pentium 4 depending on the test. The P4 with RDRAM will got alot of bandwith with it, but the long pipeline lows it down alot (except for stuff that can keep it filled, like video rendering) Beating even 2.4-2.6 GHz Celerons in some situations. With oc to 1575 MHz (150 FSB, easy to reach on good boards) and we are talking serious buissness.
Even when the code had been optimized for the P4, the Tualatin, Coppermine and AMD's Thunderbird and Thoroughbred beat the P4 quite well. You really had to set it up right for the P4 to win. Video editing was pretty much never benchmarked before the P4, as it was one of it's strong points. Until the P4 hit 3GHz it just wasn't worth it. The AMD chips were faster and burned less power, the older Intel chips were essentially killed off early so the P4 could keep going. Intel doctored the Tualatin core and created the Pentium M, later the Core Solo, Core Duo and Core 2 Duo, eventually leading to Nehalim and the Core ix line. The big reason we have the Core lineup now is that the P4 wasn't a good fit for the mobile world. Intel also realized near the end of the P4's life that the next generation of the P4's heat production and power requirements would be ridiculous. It sounds like they had 5GHz P4, maybe even dual core prototypes, but power consumption was obscene compared to the performance they were getting out of the Core Solo.
I'll see what I can dig up. I owned all of the processors I mentioned above and then some. It is rather hard to find benchmarks from 17 years ago though. The video editing thing was hoot. FlaskMPEG was recompiled with an Intel optimized compiler and it improved AMD's performance more than the Pentium 4. Still have a copy of both versions of that program on file here.
AMD vs early Pentium 4 Willamette. I was wrong on the clock speeds, it was the Northwood core that really started to cook, closer to 2.4GHz. Still looking for Tualatin benches. The Tualatin held it's own against the Athlon clock for clock. The Athlon, of course, kept going. www.anandtech.com/show/818/7
There is one other option. There is an adapter to allow Tualatins to fit in slightly older sockets. You will need to mod your cooler because you are adding the thickness of another socket and you'll want the heatsink to clip on the socket on the motherboard. Once a relative finds a Dell PC I built for them around that time, I can show you. I had to get such an adapter to put the 1.4GHz Tualatin in it. It has a Voodoo card in it too so I hope they find it someday. It should be in their basement somewhere. Awesome video! Of course, follow it up with a comparison to the first gen P4 and/or Athlon.
I used a tualatin p3s 1400 with a cuv4x mobo until my phenom II upgrade in 2010! This processor was incredibly ahead of its time. Paired with newer gpus like a geforce FX you could walk distances with it.
ah yes .. the holy grail of my old company :-D when i started there, we all had 1.4GHz P3 Dell desktops ... then, some of us were getting the P4 2GHz+ machines (dont remember the speed, but was with HT)... after a while we noticed a huge performance impact on the P4s ... so we had some official statement from company "X" that their app runs best on P3 with the short pipeline ... so all good at the end and we could keep our P3s..
no...it doesn't. I have both the PIII S 1.4ghz and a 1.4ghz P4. Difference comes down to ram speed. P4 uses RAMBUS, makes about 10% difference in favor of the P4. And, I made sure to use the same winxp pro os, 1gb of ram, and same GeForce 3 (vanilla) cards, both use SB Live! and IDE HDDs by Seagate with 80gb storage. So minus the chipsets, and cpus and ram, that's as identical as they get without expensive crossover boards for the ram/chipset
I was about to say the same. Phil, I'd love to see a part 2 of this video comparing the Tualatin 1.4 against the Athlon Thunderbird 1.4, an early Athlon XP and some Willamette Pentium 4's.
Damn, the more i watch your videos, the more i lust for a high end PC from my late childhood. I already have a 5820k/32gb/GTX970 for recent stuff and Q9550/4gb/GTX650 for XP stuff...maybe some day they'll be accompanied by a PIII-S 1.4/512mb/Ti4600 98SE PC.
:\ i don't have any pentiu... oh wait, i still have my pentium 2 i think. 400mhz. used to run it at 533mhz, even ran it at 600mhz for a good 6 months. aside from that, it's all athlons for me. except for that one pentium 4 3ghz HT that i bought recently. and for my 2009 laptop, which is a pentium dual-core. but that doesn't count since it's just a gimped core2duo, not a real pentium.
Interesting, you bought it before it was actually available, that's nice, tell us more. First generation of PIII - Katmai, was launched in 1999. Tualatin was launched in mid 2001, and the 1400 model was launched only in 2002, yet, somehow, you bought it in late 90s...
I have a 933 Mhz Coppermine with a Tualatin compatible board. There was a listing for one on ebay for 10€, but I missed it... damn, I really should have gotten it. Thx for the video!
Oh man...so glad I bought this setup (mobo/cpu) back in the day. Got the CPU for $10 USD and the mobo for $40. Mobo I ended up with was a DFI board CT64 I think. 2006 was a good year to buy older stuff. Been working on my own benchmarking stuff, but after Phil mentioned the ram deal, finding board that support DDR for the AMD and P4 and PIII systems can be a challenge.
I have a bit of a soft spot for the III-S. In early 2002, I was looking to upgrade from a P2-233. The P4 2.2 had just been released, and I think AMD had the 2000+ Athlon XP at the time. Both great processors, but I just had to build something a little less mainstream, so I chose the PIII-S. I overclocked mine to 1575MHz and paired it with 1GB of memory, a 160GB HDD, and an Audigy sound card. Playing host was a mainboard based on the Apollo Pro 266T chipset. Well over budget, I had to cheap out on the video card, so I used an MX440 for a year. Then in 2003, I went all out and sprang for the Radeon 9800 Pro. Man, that PIII-S was my main system until late 2005!
Something I wanted to look into, but ran out of time. The Pentium III-S is more a workstation type CPU? Like a Xeon these days? Because I believe most PCs for the general public, they went straight from a 1 GHz Pentium III to a Pentium 4. Like Aldi for example, I like using them as a time period reference.
Yeah, the "S" processors were intended for server use. The standard desktop Tualatin only had 256K of cache and wasn't much faster than the Coppermine EB, clock-for-clock. The cache latency on the desktop version was also a bit higher, similar to a Coppermine. Interestingly, the mobile Tualatin had the full 512K, and laptops based on them were real screamers! I wonder why Intel only chose to handicap the desktop processors.
Probably because the release of the Pentium 4 was close and pretty much a failure. Especially the earlier Socket 423 ones with 256kb L2 and not much higher clock than the Tualatin.
There's a guy on eBay that sells these that has them mounted to a PCB that makes them compatible with more motherboards. I bought two for my Asus dual Pentium 3 motherboard and they worked right out of the box, though they don't show up in the Bios as the right processor but they work great. I'm now running Windows XP great with dual Tualatin. That machine is a beast.
I do have a powerleap for a tualatin celeron. But no this is what i got on ebay. www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Tualatin-Pentium-IIIs-1-4GHz-512K-include-On-chip-Socket-Adapter/281238323137. It's a PCB mounted under the cpu that makes the cpu like 1mm thicker. Basically it mods the pins to make it work in older socket 370 motherboards.
i have an asus CUV4X-DLS which is like the CUV4X-D, just with SCSI (i think)... sadly only with 2x 1 ghz coppermine at the moment but i will upgrade to 1.4 tualatins in the future
I would naively have predicted about a 40% performance delta, and it certainly looks like that's about right, with a few outliers. Nice beast, that P3!
Very close on the pronunciation of Tualatin there. A lot better than most other channels. These architectures are difficult to pronounce from just reading them, so here’s a handy guide: Tualatin: “two all a tin” Deschutes: “duh-shoots” Willamette: “Will am it” They’re named after locations in Oregon, US.
Just got my first P3-S 1.4GHz from EBAY, wasnt cheap. Modded it with the korean guy PCB and put it in Asus P3B-F with MS-6905 slotket. FSB to 150MHz (clock speed 1570MHz), 512MB memory with 2-2-2 timings, Geforce 5900XT and yes, ~11400 from 3DMark01. I can run Doom3 and Flatout2 with it. And if I want some DOS gaming then I just swap multiplier unlocked P2-300 (Klamath) in and clock it to 2x66=133MHz. :)
There is couple of better Pentium 3s in the form of the Pentium M as they got the Tualatin core with some more modern features and they clock higher while being cheaper.
@@TheGodOfBlocks Same execution core while the floating point unit and other things were new. You can read what exactly was changed in articles posted online.
I already had a Celeron Tualatin 1.4 GHz, it was the best Celeron I ever had. The Celeron D I have not even close to the performance I had with Tualatin.
Still remember using a Celeron D 2.4GHz. The computer felt a lot slower with it than it did the Pentium III 667 in my previous machine (which was upgraded from a Celeron 433)
The Celeron D is the worst CPU I know of. It is so extremely slow that even the slowest pentium 4 outperforms a 3GHz Celeron D. I still don't understand the naming scheme, because the D would suggest it's a slower/crippled version of the Dual core Pentium D, but it isn't
The Tualatin would probably win, because it has double the L2 cache of T-bird and Cu-mine. The P4 Willy would be quite a bit slower than both, because having a 20-stage pipeline compared to 11 would more than cancel out the 400Mhz clock speed bump. We should all just let the Pentium 4 die, it was a dingleberry on the butthole of history!
Hi Phil, you don't technically need a Tualatin compatible chipset. I'm using one with a slot-based Asus P3B-F 440BX, using a slotket that has been modded. It's quite easy to mod. I can go from a P2 233 @ running 133 to the 1.4 Tualatin-S, crazy! And with ISA for sound as well
It does overclock the FSB however it runs just fine, and the PCI clock is correct as there is a divider for it in the BIOS but AGP bus is slightly overclocked. My Geforce 5900 works just fine with it though. The slotket I used is very cheap, they are available from Germany for 5 Euro - MSI 6905. You can either mod the socket side or get one of the adapters that fits onto the CPU side instead, either way it's quite easy to do if you google Tualatin pin mod you should find the info
Daniel Tekmyster I had three Amiga1200's over the years and two Amiga600's. One of the 1200, had a GVP Turbojaws II accelerator card, surf squirrel controller and I sold it for 25 US Dollars more than 12 years ago. It was stupid of me, yet the machine was worth nothing at that time. Thats how things are in life.
I have a Tyan dual socket 370 motherboard with two 1.4 ghz, it is rocksolid. It also has 4 x 512mb pc133 sd-ram installed! Also have a Gigabyte dual 370 motherboard with dual 1.26 ghz. One thing I love with the Tyan motherboard, with the latest bios update it supports IDE-harddrives larger than 120gb. All way up the last IDE drive, 750gb. I don't remember the model numbers, but I love dual cpu systems.
The Tyan mother is a Tyan S2507T (Tiger 230T) It uses the VIA Apollo Pro133T chipset. And the Gigabyte motherboard is a GA-6VTXD and it uses the same kind of chipset too.
LellePrinter82 that tyan system was THE shit back then. i had a 1ghz thunderbird at the time and always dreamed of a tyan dual cpu board. You have a real cool piece of PC history there, i think.
I'm jealous. That sounds like an awesome system to play with. I wonder how it compares to a low end core duo laptop? The Yonah based T2050 @ 1.6ghz must be pretty close?
And the best is, I found the Tyan motherboard years ago in an old pc case from the dumpster. I would've loved to own a Dual Pentium Pro system too. Right now I have a single Pentium Pro 200mhz System, with 128mb of edo ram.
I had a p3 Tualatin with a Radeon 9550.I remember being able to oc like 75 MHz out of it because I was using a mobo not able to lock the PCI /agp bus frequency so things got unstable pretty fast. This thing was extremely fast, it wasn't an a64 but it worked very well, the CPU so fast that it outperformed every atom setup up until the Pineview core, excepting setups with Nvidia ion.
I have a CUSL2_C that also can't lock PCI/AGP, still got it running on 150 FSB, which puts the PCI to 37 MHz and the AGP to 74 MHz. Still stable. Got my P3 933 up to 1050 MHz that way.
HappyBeezerStudios - by Lord_Mogul in my case I could oc higher only if I used on-board audio(which was a shitty ac97 Realtek), otherwise the sound card would freeze when raising the PCI clock.
I remember my very first PC I built myself had a 1.0 GHz Pentium III, 256 mbs of pc133 ram, 32 mb nvidia geforce 2, 20 GB hard drive, and ran Windows Me. I remember that I built in March of 2001. Then before I sold it, I remember I upgraded it to Windows XP.
Your first build sounds very similar to my 2nd build; had it long enough for most of its original components to died: P3 1Ghz Gigabyte 815 MB (which died and had to find an ASUS replacement) 256MB SDRAM ATI RAGE 32MB (died and replaced by Geforce 2 MX400 64MB) 20GB HDD (died and replaced with a Maxtor 80GB) Creative SB Vibra (died and replaced by Creative SB Live 24bit - 0410) Liteon 52x CD ROM (blew up one CD, then died sometime later, replaced by ASUS DVD-CDRW Combo drive)
I remember at the time, if you had a large budget, you could get a 1.5 Ghz Pentium 4 system with 256 mb of rdram. Of course my desktop build I have now still isn't new today, but kindof modern. Has an Intel Core i7-4770k cpu, 16 GBs of ddr3 ram at 2400 mhz, and an EVGA NVidia gtx 1060 6 GB ftw2+ graphics card and a 275 GB crucial ssd with a 3 TB seagate hdd. I think most of my components are from around 2013, I guess still good enough though to run the latest games and stuff.
Another great video Phil! I think that I would get an Athlon 64 or a core2duo, since the Tualatin motherboards lack ISA slots. I am stuck with coppermine for the time being, but it's great to see this CPU tested here!
I was lucky enough to get a p3 1ghz that overclocked to 1.13 Tualatin speeds. I had to have a 1.4 T and got one to o/c to 1.7 and I was in heaven for many years. I still have the computer and am thinking about setting it up as a retro gaming PC.
Good job, Phil! I only wish you'd also benchmarked a 500 MHz Katmai (I still keep one such system, btw). Thus, we would have seen the performance differences over 500 MHz increments of the three revisions. An early P4 could also complete the picture, but hey, it's never enough :)
BTW I made a dual tualatin 1.4 GHz system run skyrim. I had to remove the SSE2 instructions in ollydbg, and for some super strange reason, the game still runs even with those instructions removed (it shouldn't work, but it does). Probably really bad EXE optimization. It crashes about once every half hour, but gets like 20-25 fps. Video card was HD 4650 (second fastest AGP).
What a piece of beautiful hardware !!! On my first pc i had a p3 at 600MHz but i was too young to understand which model it was... nice processor which gave me hundreds hours of playing games
The first time I built a Tualatin 1.4GHz and put a reasonable graphics card in it (Geforce 2 MX I think), I was blown away. I actually built computers for a living back in the day, and I just don't remember anything that smooth at the time.
It seems ok. Are you sure you aren't thinking of the TNT2 M64? The GeForce 2 MX 400 was not top of the line. But it is way better than what I had back in the day!
Geforce 2 MX was the most rebranded video card ever until the Geforce 8800 series, and then AMD R9 290x (which is still planned for another re-release as the RX 580X!)
I still have a 1,266GHz P3-S and an Asus TUSL2-C Mainboard, which I will reassemble again after your inspiration :-) . Have you ever had a Pentium-M, running with the Asus CT-479 on a Socket 478 Mainboard? That's my other retro-PC-rig, overclocked from 1,73GHz to 2,4, running great on Windows XP for a very long time...
I really wanted one of these after seeing a PC manufacturer paired these with DDR RAM for their top tier machines but the whole system was $2200 without a monitor.
I had a 1.2 GHz Tualatin Celeron to upgrade from my Pentium II 300Mhz cpu. I purchased the Celeron together with a slot cassette adapter so it could fit into the slot of a Pentium 2. My PC came to life again in a crazy way! Best CPU upgrade ever. Well, maybe together with my Kingston upgrade chip which was based on the AMD 5x86-133 Mhz cpu, to upgrade my Intel 486-66 Mhz cpu. That was also one bloody good upgrade. Sigh, where are the days...
But it breaks compatibility with some games; also there’s really no need for it because the console is locked to 24fps. There is also a 128MB of RAM mod, but again what’s the point?
My 1.4 ghz tualatin died, it suddenly stated to have high temps and to no longer boot windows and then when i take it out of the computer to see what's the problem the heatspreader was glued to the heatsync and the rest of the cpu was in the socket, so that's how i have delidded my tuialatin 4.1 ghz without the intention of doing it, but now my retro system is running fine with a 1133 mhz pentium 3s, i am looking for a replacement in shops in my city that have bins of used computer parts, so i can bring back to full speed my voodoo 5 5500 system, but why did you use a voodoo 5 5500 as ruler? I'd also like to see the voodoo 5 benchmark with different processors, and if you have a motherboard with a kt333 chipset, that's one of the fastest that can support the voodoo 5, so try to use one of those with the fatest cpu you can get for it
Wow, it sounds like your 1.4GHz Tualatin had a serious manufacturing defect. It probably started overheating because the integrated heat spreader lost it's adhesion to the die. The fact that it came off when you pulled the heatsink was just a secondary effect.
I just rewatched this video cause I wasn't sure if I needed a better graphics card for win98 or a better cpu. I have a GF2Ti on a 1000EB system with a VIA 133T chipset motherboard (GA-6VTXE). I also have an FX5900XT and I compared both cards and found out that the GF2Ti is faster in low resolutions but the FX5900XT is way ahead in resolutions like 1280x1024 and in some games in 1024x768 too. So I realized that the FX is severely bottlenecked by the cpu, hence I definetely need this tualatin processor!
You mentioned the Athlon fx-57, that was the single core version of the 939 athlon 64 fx CPU right? I have a fx-60 that I bought of eBay about 5 years ago to replace the 4200+ I had originally. The absolute best socket 939 cpu.
You should try to build a Scoket 479 Pentium M PC (yes, there are standard mATX and ITX desktop motherboards for the mobile Pentium and Celeron M), and see how does it compares to the 1.4 GHZ Tualatin PIII and a P4 of the same era.
Pham Nguyen Duc Tin yeah the Pentium 3 based mobile CPUs were much better than the p4 chips and that is why the core line did not add onto the p4 architecture but rather use the Pentium m for reference because of its lower power consumption and better performance per MHz
Nils Pc Vids yes inded the Pentium Pro derived into PII & PIII... this design was used as the foundation for the core lineup wich is what Intel evolved up to the current CPUs 😊
Once again Phil, You're a fount of knowledge. (PS: I wish modern CPUs would come with out the IHS. Problem is they won't take the risk of some idiot breaking the chip.)
It would be nice to see a test of Tualatin PIII-S 1400MHz on motherboards with different chipsets like: i440BX / i815 / i820 / VIA 694T / ALiM1651T / SiS630ET. My guess is that intel 440BX would win that competition ;)
These really good videos and stuff, what would like with these era of gaming, if you would not be better off going with one of more common Athlon xp cpu you would find around early 2000s?
Pentium III S was legendary. It was so good that it was quite obvious that, from the beginning, the Netburst Design was a dead end road. Overclocked PIII-S destroyed the Willamette Pentium 4 CPUs. PIII-S lost against the Northwood ones. However, you had to consider that it lacked SSE2, it lacked the quad pumped FSB, it lacked fast Ram and it lacked the enhanced data prefetch unit. It was obvious that developing the P6 architecture would have been the better choice. And the proof came a bit later with the mobile Pentium-M. At the beginning, Intel still pushed the myth that high clockability of the NetBurst would give them an advantage. But when the first desktop motherboard for the Pentium-M came out and the overclocked Dothan Pentium-M destroyed everything, including the P4 Extreme Editions, Intel couldn´t hide the truth any longer. The final nail in the coffin of Netburst was the throtteling of the extremely hot running Prescott CPUs (3rd Generation Netburst).
i still have my first pc that has a 1Ghz tualatin celeron on it and a AOpen MX3S-T. i got it from my school at the time, no idea why they threw it out. it was fine and they were still using that model. but hey i finally could play better games and this was somewhere around the year 2003-2005 or so.
I had a P3 1GHz back in the day, and it was a beast at the time. Being a student I was looking for a budget option to upgrade, and the prospect of just swapping out the CPU was appealing, but my Via chipset motherboard wasn't compatible with the Tualatin processors. Clearly the P4 was the way Intel was going, but P4 motherboards and CPUs commanded a pretty hefty price premium, so I just ended up going with an AMD Athlon XP 1900+ thoroughbred. My next upgrade was an Athlon 64, but I did eventually get a P4, which was a cast-off from a friend's upgrade.
P3 S 1.4ghz scales up nicley up to Gf4 ti 4600... P3-S is a must have/super chips for us retro maniacs. The bad things is the lack of SSE2 support and the drawbacks of the platform hence to intel favoring the P4(still we love this chip too). Tulatin 512 is the ancestor of Core line...it late became Banias..then Dothan an so goes to history.
I've just sold my Tualatin, I am really sad because of that, but I already have too much retro stuff. It's not that good as people believe, yes, it's more efficient architecture than first Pentium 4s, but it's still Pentium 3 and it doesn't have enough performance to play games from that period of time on ultra in resolution higher than 1024x768, but it's interesting piece of history.
how come you didn't test it against the obvious? atlhon 1.4ghz [edit] well i guess it loses to the atlhon since i used to get 11k 3dmarks 2001 with mine and an overclocked ti4400 that was a bit a tiny bit slower than a stock ti4600
7:38 ... note other users, even after releiving some of the tenstion on the cooler support bracket, becareful with SMD components near the cpu socket, intel socket cpu motherboards are notorious for it. Case in point, i have an ASUS TUSL2-C motherboard running with a P3 1400S, when i was building the new system, and while still being extra careful, i accidently knocked off an SMD capacitor near the cpu socket, i went down too far with the bracket while trying to install the cooler. Luckily, i was able to reattach the SMD capacitor properly, so what i did afterwards before putting the cooler back on, i cut off just the ends, on both sides of the metal brackets that there isnt a cpu socket tab for, problem solved for future dissasembly and reattachment of the cpu cooler. AMD motherboard manufactures had it mostly right by keeping any and all SMD components clear of the cpu socket and puting a protective strip of transparent plastic just underneith the cpu attachement tabs.
A good option is also the Pentium III-S 1266 MHz, it is alot cheaper in comparison and still got the 512k Cache and all the Tualatin benefits. But careful as there is also a 1266 MHz Tualatin with only 256k cache.
The Tualatin was always expensive and hard to find even new. Motherboard compatibility was a problem as well. I had the P3 1Ghz and it worked well for years until I went to the P4 Prescott. Totally skipped the Willamette because the Prescott kept my room warmer in the Winter time. lol
The Pentium 3 Tualatin is indeed an amazing CPU. It's worth noticing that they can also be still be used for daily tasks even today, in 2018. I do use a Tualatin 1.40Ghz as my main machine. Let me show you a video of my machine in action: ruclips.net/video/7v9t8qPXmkU/видео.html Pardon the potato quality, I know the video sucks, but I wanted to give a proof that Tualatins can still be useful today and do much more things than just play old games. :)
Many games will refuse to start on this processor due to the lack of the SSE2/SSE3/SSE4 instruction set. The multiplier is locked on Pentium III 1400, which limits its overclocking capabilities so IP4 with DDR was better choice in 2002
@@FatalityOCC I use SetFSB to overclock it, but it requires the right combination of RAM, adeguate cooling and a good PSU. You can overclock it through BIOS if you have an Asus TUV4X but you can't go beyond certain frequencies, the rest must be done with SetFSB in Windows.
Yeah, its very versatile like the athlon, in that it can run windows ME or windows 7 equally well with appropriate ram, a high end gpu (radeon x850 to be compatible for both windows versions) and a good IDE ATA133 SSD. :)
Like someone else wrote earlier, I'd love to se a comparison between this and a P4 at 1.4GHz and a Athlon at the same speed to see how they compare. I bet AMD will win like it always does, but seeing by how much would make a great video ;)
And that's where things get tricky, as there are so many different motherboard options, chipsets, RAM standards. Fanboys come out with their pitchforks for the oddest reasons and whatnot :D But for sure, there will be something like that at some point in the future :D
Its all about chipsets there. The full fat P3 Tualatin with FSB133 and 512K of L2 is pretty strong, in period correct setup it would beat Athlon on like KT133. But if you give the Athlon Nforce 2 it will easily win. The whole K7 platform is extremely bus/memory bottlenecked and running the same CPU with low FSB and Sdram chipset vs high FSB low latency DDR chipset (like Nforce2) it can be like 60% difference in gaming according to my own tests. For example Im using Barton overclcoked to 2,2 Ghz on Abit AT7A, that is KT133 board and compared to Tualatin on 1,7 in Intel BX they trade evenly. If I put the same Barton on the same 2,2Ghz on Nforce 2 and throw it FSB200/DDR400 it becomes 60% faster. On the P4 side, P4 has the quad-pumped FSB so it has little platform bottleneck, but the CPU itself is pathetic and has low IPC. Typically The P4 platform does well on memory bottlenecked engines, like quake3, but anything CPU/FPU intensive like Unreal engine or most other games it needs like 1Ghz more to even think of competing.
I just bought a 1.4 Ghz PIII and am looking to get a quieter cooler. I am currently using a stock PIII cooler, but it is way too loud. I searched for the Arctic Cooling Copper Silent 3 that you used, but it appears to be out of stock in the USA. Can you recommend any other similar quiet Tualatin-friendly coolers? Thanks.
I didn't hear it mentioned but the Tualatin seems to have gotten rid of the ISA slot. You can still use the P3 1100 and 1000 in a slot configuration with converter board and keep an ISA video card. I don't see the perf being a big deal, everything on the highest non P3-S works great.
I'm using an AOpen ax6bc 440bx board with a Tualatin 1.4 in a modified adapter. Probably wasn't worth the cost when I could build a P4 or XP system for half the price but like you say, there's something about having the best of an era.
Dear Phil! I finally built my retro pc following your excellent videos! But on the start up screen my PIII is recognized as 1GHz rather than 1.4 My purchase was a PIIIs Tualatin 1.4GHz on ebay and my Mb is an ASUS TUSL2 with the Intel 815 chip. Is there a fixable reason or did they send me the wrong CPU? Thanxxxxxx
simply said the Tualatin was/is A LEGEND after this CPU i was buying AMD Athlon 64 3700+ and the AMD X2 4800+ then the Core 2 Quad Q6600 continued with the I7 980 6 core and now , it looks like i will be going back to AMD after sooo many years
a friend of min has a re-capped abit bp6 with a couple of the 1.4ghz celeron Tualatin chips in adapters, water cooled, and overclocked as far as the chip would go(the board will do 165mhz fsb with the other chips we have put in it...that were replaced... its genuinely amazing for its era... destroys any pentium-d you compare it to... the cpus and adapters cost him a good bit, but...he wanted to try it and the site that sold him the combo guariteed it would work.. they had the p3 full version but suggested the celeron ver since it wasnt much dif, if i remember correctly the only dif in the case of the models he got, was fsb being 100 by default rather then 133... but 1.4ghz by default so higher default multi....heh... these were sort of like the k6-3 of its day... you didnt see them for sale alot... but people who had them loved them... (i had a few friends with the k6-3 that got 600-650 out of them...one of our friends removed the lid and made a shim at his fathers work... he got 750 out of his using a swiftech cooler.... the risk of breaking a core was high...he killed 2 k6-2 before getting the shim correct...
Cool stuff! Hope you will someday do a dedicated P3 1Ghz/1.1Ghz copermine build with 815 like chip-set to see what can we achieve (max) from such an affordable system (still) .. What GPU is the best for such system etc etc :)
i had a tualatin running at 1.2 ghz, then upgraded to a p4 northwood, or downgraded to be honest... i still have a p3 -s, if i only had a mobo for it...
So the corsair vs450 psu has enough power on the 5 and 3.3 line? Im having a real problem finding a good psu for my intel815aae motherboard. It only has one 20pin for power. I would love a retro psu guide video.
@@philscomputerlab Ok so Win98se P3 933mhz (1.4ghz later) Geforce 4400t 128mb 40gb ide hdd 512mb ram Cd rom ide drive Sb live! 5.1 And a few fans ofc. I hear alot of talk about the psu power standard changing around 2002? And the focus went away from the 5v and 3.3v rails to 12v rail. I understand there should be some truth too this claim but maybe for more power hungry hardware then? Could you shine some light on this for me and the rest of us. I see there are others who wonder aswell when i do google searches.
It's worth mentioning that you can pin mod the Taulatin to make it work with most motherboards, just remove three pins and bridge two wires :) works well with Via 133 Apollo boards for instance
I bought one of the modified III-s Tualatins from South Korea. Though my Slot 1 motherboard supports 133Mhz FSB and runs just fine at 1200Mhz (133x9) on my VIA C3 it will not run the Tualatin at 133 FSB. This is using an MS-6905 slotket for both. Just something to keep in mind.
Gonna do that with my CUSL2-C at some point.
LOL I can remember doing that back in the day with a 1.2Ghz Celly Tualatin on an Abit SE6 Rev 2 and then overclocking it to 1.6Ghz for the rest of it's life. I can remember these Tualatins were outperforming the first P4's at that time in games.
Back in the day I bought an adapter socket for the taulatin CPU's. I think it also had a VRM mod.
Impressive results...I didn't expect such a big performance boost comparing it to the 1000EB coppermine! It would be very interesting to see performance against early P4 cpu's also.
As far as I can remember the PIII-S absolutely destroys the early P4 CPU's in many many benchmarks and tasks. Especially ones that weren't memory sensitive.
Not 100% sure about this but I believe the Pentium III-S was more tuned for application in mobile systems in a time when the 'Banias' Pentium M's weren't quite ready for market and the Pentium 4 hadn't a good mobile counterpart yet. (If there were any good Pentium 4 M's, those were always a joke.)
About the Pentium M, it was heavily based on the PIII architecture and included the good elements of the P4. A really streamlined CPU.
I was given a laptop with a Pentium M 755 (2.0 GHz). The Machine felt highly streamlined: fast boot time, with applications feeling very responsive. Amazed how well the architecture performs even to the point of competing well with AMD's Athlon 64 depending on the workload.
Some nostalgia if anyone's interested: www.anandtech.com/show/1399
QuadTubeChannel well that's where the core2 family was ultimately born from, so that's not that surprising
@@fabiolorefice1895 The P3-S was designed for servers and workstations, especially one that would run 24/7. Hence, the "S" designation.
The Intel Pentium III-S at 1.4Ghz and with the 512KB cache will really put some hurting on even the 2.0Ghz P4s despite lacking SSE2 in those early days no different from how AMD's 1.4Ghz Athlon was also able to do the same...
You can see why Intel made a particular chipset requirement which meant locking out the PIII motherboards from Intel that had RDRAM which would have further exposed something weak about the P4s which was actually exposed by the mainstream PC media when they used the Intel Pentium-M (essentially a hidden PIII architecture) meant for mobile solutions as a desktop CPU...
Not saying that Netburst and P4s were bad but the story was that P4s were supposed to get faster when they hit higher clock speeds beyond 3.2Ghz and arguably even the 3.7Ghz which were P4s that were also locked out of running on Dual Channel RDRAM motherboard set ups... because RDRAM did have higher performance the higher the CPU clocks and smaller die shrinks allowed.
I still have a few of the Pentium 3s and the Celeron variant. I found delidding them a good way to get them to work with old school heat sinks. I remember bringing my dual P3 to Lan parties back in the day and getting all excited.
so do I, I just need compatible motherboards, but they are getting rarer and rarer, and expensive , around $200
i would love to see an comparison with P4 Willamette Socket 423 1.4~2.0Ghz..
maybe with some Rambus memory.
Especially with some of the early P4 era Celerons as well. I used to have a 2.4GHz Celeron which I overclocked right up to 3Ghz pretty stable and 3.2Ghz with some issues. Used to game on it back in the 2000s.
A 1400 Tualatin with full 512k cache is around a 1.7-2.0 GHz Pentium 4 depending on the test. The P4 with RDRAM will got alot of bandwith with it, but the long pipeline lows it down alot (except for stuff that can keep it filled, like video rendering) Beating even 2.4-2.6 GHz Celerons in some situations.
With oc to 1575 MHz (150 FSB, easy to reach on good boards) and we are talking serious buissness.
Even when the code had been optimized for the P4, the Tualatin, Coppermine and AMD's Thunderbird and Thoroughbred beat the P4 quite well.
You really had to set it up right for the P4 to win. Video editing was pretty much never benchmarked before the P4, as it was one of it's strong points. Until the P4 hit 3GHz it just wasn't worth it.
The AMD chips were faster and burned less power, the older Intel chips were essentially killed off early so the P4 could keep going.
Intel doctored the Tualatin core and created the Pentium M, later the Core Solo, Core Duo and Core 2 Duo, eventually leading to Nehalim and the Core ix line. The big reason we have the Core lineup now is that the P4 wasn't a good fit for the mobile world. Intel also realized near the end of the P4's life that the next generation of the P4's heat production and power requirements would be ridiculous. It sounds like they had 5GHz P4, maybe even dual core prototypes, but power consumption was obscene compared to the performance they were getting out of the Core Solo.
I'll see what I can dig up.
I owned all of the processors I mentioned above and then some. It is rather hard to find benchmarks from 17 years ago though.
The video editing thing was hoot. FlaskMPEG was recompiled with an Intel optimized compiler and it improved AMD's performance more than the Pentium 4. Still have a copy of both versions of that program on file here.
AMD vs early Pentium 4 Willamette. I was wrong on the clock speeds, it was the Northwood core that really started to cook, closer to 2.4GHz. Still looking for Tualatin benches. The Tualatin held it's own against the Athlon clock for clock. The Athlon, of course, kept going.
www.anandtech.com/show/818/7
There is one other option. There is an adapter to allow Tualatins to fit in slightly older sockets. You will need to mod your cooler because you are adding the thickness of another socket and you'll want the heatsink to clip on the socket on the motherboard. Once a relative finds a Dell PC I built for them around that time, I can show you. I had to get such an adapter to put the 1.4GHz Tualatin in it. It has a Voodoo card in it too so I hope they find it someday. It should be in their basement somewhere. Awesome video! Of course, follow it up with a comparison to the first gen P4 and/or Athlon.
I used a tualatin p3s 1400 with a cuv4x mobo until my phenom II upgrade in 2010! This processor was incredibly ahead of its time. Paired with newer gpus like a geforce FX you could walk distances with it.
Totally true. I kept this cpu for ages. Sounds daft, but I honestly felt it was just as fast
than my P4 1800
ah yes .. the holy grail of my old company :-D when i started there, we all had 1.4GHz P3 Dell desktops ... then, some of us were getting the P4 2GHz+ machines (dont remember the speed, but was with HT)... after a while we noticed a huge performance impact on the P4s ... so we had some official statement from company "X" that their app runs best on P3 with the short pipeline ... so all good at the end and we could keep our P3s..
Thanks for sharing, love these nuggets from the past :D
Would be fun to test this against a pentium 4 @ 1.4Ghz and also add an AMD Athlon XP of the time at the mix...
The PIII 1.4Ghz would destroy the Pentium IV 1.4Ghz and it would be roughly similar to the slowest Athlons XP (1500/1600+).
no...it doesn't. I have both the PIII S 1.4ghz and a 1.4ghz P4. Difference comes down to ram speed. P4 uses RAMBUS, makes about 10% difference in favor of the P4. And, I made sure to use the same winxp pro os, 1gb of ram, and same GeForce 3 (vanilla) cards, both use SB Live! and IDE HDDs by Seagate with 80gb storage. So minus the chipsets, and cpus and ram, that's as identical as they get without expensive crossover boards for the ram/chipset
I was about to say the same. Phil, I'd love to see a part 2 of this video comparing the Tualatin 1.4 against the Athlon Thunderbird 1.4, an early Athlon XP and some Willamette Pentium 4's.
I've seen so many benchmarks saying otherwise... The only game in which the Rambus made a difference was Quake 3.
Add those crappy Celerons - 1.7 Ghz sucked so terribly...
Love the cleaning of the die montage and that Arctic Cooling cooler!
Holy crap I always wanted one of those and a good DFI with the 815 chipset... Thanks for bringing back some wonderful memories Phil!
I love the Celeron Tualatins. With the proper adapter they make a great upgrade for a slot-1 motherboard.
Soul reaver
Damn, the more i watch your videos, the more i lust for a high end PC from my late childhood. I already have a 5820k/32gb/GTX970 for recent stuff and Q9550/4gb/GTX650 for XP stuff...maybe some day they'll be accompanied by a PIII-S 1.4/512mb/Ti4600 98SE PC.
Sounds pretty good. Like that Core 2 setup.
i'm still using Pentium!!! 1ghz 133/256 . it's awesome cpu. Thnx for the video. Greetings from Turkey
I have one in one of my old rigs, and have a 450 MHz and a 500 MHz of the Katmai cores as well.
:\ i don't have any pentiu... oh wait, i still have my pentium 2 i think. 400mhz. used to run it at 533mhz, even ran it at 600mhz for a good 6 months.
aside from that, it's all athlons for me. except for that one pentium 4 3ghz HT that i bought recently. and for my 2009 laptop, which is a pentium dual-core. but that doesn't count since it's just a gimped core2duo, not a real pentium.
I bought one these off ebay in the late 90's. It was wonderful. I have not been excited over computers since the 90's.
Interesting, you bought it before it was actually available, that's nice, tell us more. First generation of PIII - Katmai, was launched in 1999. Tualatin was launched in mid 2001, and the 1400 model was launched only in 2002, yet, somehow, you bought it in late 90s...
just ordered a TUSL2-C to play with a p3-s too (and a voodoo 3 pci and gf2 ultra agp).
I have a 933 Mhz Coppermine with a Tualatin compatible board. There was a listing for one on ebay for 10€, but I missed it... damn, I really should have gotten it. Thx for the video!
Oh man...so glad I bought this setup (mobo/cpu) back in the day. Got the CPU for $10 USD and the mobo for $40. Mobo I ended up with was a DFI board CT64 I think. 2006 was a good year to buy older stuff. Been working on my own benchmarking stuff, but after Phil mentioned the ram deal, finding board that support DDR for the AMD and P4 and PIII systems can be a challenge.
I have a bit of a soft spot for the III-S. In early 2002, I was looking to upgrade from a P2-233. The P4 2.2 had just been released, and I think AMD had the 2000+ Athlon XP at the time. Both great processors, but I just had to build something a little less mainstream, so I chose the PIII-S. I overclocked mine to 1575MHz and paired it with 1GB of memory, a 160GB HDD, and an Audigy sound card. Playing host was a mainboard based on the Apollo Pro 266T chipset. Well over budget, I had to cheap out on the video card, so I used an MX440 for a year. Then in 2003, I went all out and sprang for the Radeon 9800 Pro.
Man, that PIII-S was my main system until late 2005!
Something I wanted to look into, but ran out of time. The Pentium III-S is more a workstation type CPU? Like a Xeon these days? Because I believe most PCs for the general public, they went straight from a 1 GHz Pentium III to a Pentium 4. Like Aldi for example, I like using them as a time period reference.
Yeah, the "S" processors were intended for server use. The standard desktop Tualatin only had 256K of cache and wasn't much faster than the Coppermine EB, clock-for-clock. The cache latency on the desktop version was also a bit higher, similar to a Coppermine. Interestingly, the mobile Tualatin had the full 512K, and laptops based on them were real screamers! I wonder why Intel only chose to handicap the desktop processors.
Probably because the release of the Pentium 4 was close and pretty much a failure. Especially the earlier Socket 423 ones with 256kb L2 and not much higher clock than the Tualatin.
There's a guy on eBay that sells these that has them mounted to a PCB that makes them compatible with more motherboards. I bought two for my Asus dual Pentium 3 motherboard and they worked right out of the box, though they don't show up in the Bios as the right processor but they work great. I'm now running Windows XP great with dual Tualatin. That machine is a beast.
Does your motherboard support the 133 MHz FSB, or will it overclock the bus?
Yes it does, it's the Asus CUV4X-D. It seems pretty stable. I put 4x256mb pc133 ram in it and haven't had any bsod's. I got it for a good deal on ebay
Anyone remember this..the so-called 'slocket'?
www.tomshardware.co.uk/the-resurrection,review-616.html
I do have a powerleap for a tualatin celeron. But no this is what i got on ebay. www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Tualatin-Pentium-IIIs-1-4GHz-512K-include-On-chip-Socket-Adapter/281238323137. It's a PCB mounted under the cpu that makes the cpu like 1mm thicker. Basically it mods the pins to make it work in older socket 370 motherboards.
i have an asus CUV4X-DLS which is like the CUV4X-D, just with SCSI (i think)... sadly only with 2x 1 ghz coppermine at the moment but i will upgrade to 1.4 tualatins in the future
I would naively have predicted about a 40% performance delta, and it certainly looks like that's about right, with a few outliers. Nice beast, that P3!
Very close on the pronunciation of Tualatin there. A lot better than most other channels. These architectures are difficult to pronounce from just reading them, so here’s a handy guide:
Tualatin: “two all a tin”
Deschutes: “duh-shoots”
Willamette: “Will am it”
They’re named after locations in Oregon, US.
It's always pleasant to see your vids.
moto racer and pentium 3 two beautiful memories from my high school days.
I bought one a couple of years ago to go into my Windows 98 Retro (in a modern Case) build. Such a beast.
Just got my first P3-S 1.4GHz from EBAY, wasnt cheap. Modded it with the korean guy PCB and put it in Asus P3B-F with MS-6905 slotket. FSB to 150MHz (clock speed 1570MHz), 512MB memory with 2-2-2 timings, Geforce 5900XT and yes, ~11400 from 3DMark01. I can run Doom3 and Flatout2 with it. And if I want some DOS gaming then I just swap multiplier unlocked P2-300 (Klamath) in and clock it to 2x66=133MHz. :)
There is couple of better Pentium 3s in the form of the Pentium M as they got the Tualatin core with some more modern features and they clock higher while being cheaper.
Wait, are you telling me that a Pentium M 780 is essentially a Pentium III running at 2.27GHz with 2MB of cache??
@@TheGodOfBlocks Same execution core while the floating point unit and other things were new. You can read what exactly was changed in articles posted online.
I already had a Celeron Tualatin 1.4 GHz, it was the best Celeron I ever had. The Celeron D I have not even close to the performance I had with Tualatin.
Still remember using a Celeron D 2.4GHz. The computer felt a lot slower with it than it did the Pentium III 667 in my previous machine (which was upgraded from a Celeron 433)
The Celeron D is the worst CPU I know of. It is so extremely slow that even the slowest pentium 4 outperforms a 3GHz Celeron D.
I still don't understand the naming scheme, because the D would suggest it's a slower/crippled version of the Dual core Pentium D, but it isn't
Hi Phil, is it possobile to do a review P3 1.4 tualatin vs AMD Athlon 1.4 GHz Tunderbird but on a SDR Mainboard?
1.4 Tualatin vs 1.4 Thunderbird DDR vs. 1.4 Thunderbirds SDR vs 1.8 Willamette SDR vs. 1.8 Willamette RD, that would be a nice test.
The Tualatin would probably win, because it has double the L2 cache of T-bird and Cu-mine. The P4 Willy would be quite a bit slower than both, because having a 20-stage pipeline compared to 11 would more than cancel out the 400Mhz clock speed bump. We should all just let the Pentium 4 die, it was a dingleberry on the butthole of history!
Everyone knows that P4 will win - but you forgot a real 2001 king AthlonXP 1800+ Palomino @@HappyBeezerStudios
My 14000 Tualatin runs with 1575MHz and default VCore of 1,45V. The SL6BY Stepping is better than the older SL5XL.
Hi Phil, you don't technically need a Tualatin compatible chipset. I'm using one with a slot-based Asus P3B-F 440BX, using a slotket that has been modded. It's quite easy to mod. I can go from a P2 233 @ running 133 to the 1.4 Tualatin-S, crazy! And with ISA for sound as well
That overclocks the FSB and busses, doesn't it? And such an adapter often costs more than a proper Tualatin compatible board.
It does overclock the FSB however it runs just fine, and the PCI clock is correct as there is a divider for it in the BIOS but AGP bus is slightly overclocked. My Geforce 5900 works just fine with it though. The slotket I used is very cheap, they are available from Germany for 5 Euro - MSI 6905. You can either mod the socket side or get one of the adapters that fits onto the CPU side instead, either way it's quite easy to do if you google Tualatin pin mod you should find the info
I had a lot of the 1.4ghz pIII processors... 😢 I stupidly got rid of them
Always the way isn't it mate. I've thrown or sold so much stuff over the years, including a Commodore Amiga 2000 in pristine condition. Oh well.
Daniel Tekmyster i still have a milk crate full of P3's, P4's, and socket 462 athlons...
Daniel Tekmyster I had three Amiga1200's over the years and two Amiga600's. One of the 1200, had a GVP Turbojaws II accelerator card, surf squirrel controller and I sold it for 25 US Dollars more than 12 years ago. It was stupid of me, yet the machine was worth nothing at that time. Thats how things are in life.
Shame on you |:v
I remember the days when you couldn’t give Voodoo cards away, I must have dumped dozens of them 😫
I have a Tyan dual socket 370 motherboard with two 1.4 ghz, it is rocksolid. It also has 4 x 512mb pc133 sd-ram installed! Also have a Gigabyte dual 370 motherboard with dual 1.26 ghz. One thing I love with the Tyan motherboard, with the latest bios update it supports IDE-harddrives larger than 120gb. All way up the last IDE drive, 750gb. I don't remember the model numbers, but I love dual cpu systems.
2GB of RAM? Nice! I wonder what chipset that board has...
The Tyan mother is a Tyan S2507T (Tiger 230T) It uses the VIA Apollo Pro133T chipset. And the Gigabyte motherboard is a GA-6VTXD and it uses the same kind of chipset too.
LellePrinter82 that tyan system was THE shit back then. i had a 1ghz thunderbird at the time and always dreamed of a tyan dual cpu board. You have a real cool piece of PC history there, i think.
I'm jealous. That sounds like an awesome system to play with. I wonder how it compares to a low end core duo laptop? The Yonah based T2050 @ 1.6ghz must be pretty close?
And the best is, I found the Tyan motherboard years ago in an old pc case from the dumpster. I would've loved to own a Dual Pentium Pro system too. Right now I have a single Pentium Pro 200mhz System, with 128mb of edo ram.
I had a p3 Tualatin with a Radeon 9550.I remember being able to oc like 75 MHz out of it because I was using a mobo not able to lock the PCI /agp bus frequency so things got unstable pretty fast. This thing was extremely fast, it wasn't an a64 but it worked very well, the CPU so fast that it outperformed every atom setup up until the Pineview core, excepting setups with Nvidia ion.
I have a CUSL2_C that also can't lock PCI/AGP, still got it running on 150 FSB, which puts the PCI to 37 MHz and the AGP to 74 MHz. Still stable. Got my P3 933 up to 1050 MHz that way.
HappyBeezerStudios - by Lord_Mogul in my case I could oc higher only if I used on-board audio(which was a shitty ac97 Realtek), otherwise the sound card would freeze when raising the PCI clock.
I remember my very first PC I built myself had a 1.0 GHz Pentium III, 256 mbs of pc133 ram, 32 mb nvidia geforce 2, 20 GB hard drive, and ran Windows Me. I remember that I built in March of 2001. Then before I sold it, I remember I upgraded it to Windows XP.
Your first build sounds very similar to my 2nd build; had it long enough for most of its original components to died:
P3 1Ghz
Gigabyte 815 MB (which died and had to find an ASUS replacement)
256MB SDRAM
ATI RAGE 32MB (died and replaced by Geforce 2 MX400 64MB)
20GB HDD (died and replaced with a Maxtor 80GB)
Creative SB Vibra (died and replaced by Creative SB Live 24bit - 0410)
Liteon 52x CD ROM (blew up one CD, then died sometime later, replaced by ASUS DVD-CDRW Combo drive)
I remember at the time, if you had a large budget, you could get a 1.5 Ghz Pentium 4 system with 256 mb of rdram. Of course my desktop build I have now still isn't new today, but kindof modern. Has an Intel Core i7-4770k cpu, 16 GBs of ddr3 ram at 2400 mhz, and an EVGA NVidia gtx 1060 6 GB ftw2+ graphics card and a 275 GB crucial ssd with a 3 TB seagate hdd. I think most of my components are from around 2013, I guess still good enough though to run the latest games and stuff.
Great to see this. I remember back in 2004, I got my first PC has pentium celeron 2.4ghz.
Thank you for Using the Pentium III processor . They are worth far More as a Working Computer Part than you'll ever get in Gold Scrap :\ QC
Another great video Phil! I think that I would get an Athlon 64 or a core2duo, since the Tualatin motherboards lack ISA slots. I am stuck with coppermine for the time being, but it's great to see this CPU tested here!
Some Tualatin supporting boards do have ISA slots, not easy to find though.
I was lucky enough to get a p3 1ghz that overclocked to 1.13 Tualatin speeds. I had to have a 1.4 T and got one to o/c to 1.7 and I was in heaven for many years. I still have the computer and am thinking about setting it up as a retro gaming PC.
Tualatins were awesome cpus for it's time. Straight from them intel developed pentium m if remember correctly. Another great vid :)
Good job, Phil! I only wish you'd also benchmarked a 500 MHz Katmai (I still keep one such system, btw). Thus, we would have seen the performance differences over 500 MHz increments of the three revisions. An early P4 could also complete the picture, but hey, it's never enough :)
Can you do a video comparing and choosing the best motherboards for PIII.
Also, please review any PCI graphics cards for pIII motherboards.
BTW I made a dual tualatin 1.4 GHz system run skyrim. I had to remove the SSE2 instructions in ollydbg, and for some super strange reason, the game still runs even with those instructions removed (it shouldn't work, but it does). Probably really bad EXE optimization. It crashes about once every half hour, but gets like 20-25 fps. Video card was HD 4650 (second fastest AGP).
As always awesome video, would've been nice to see comparison with tualatin celerons though.
You should have also tried the normal Tualatin 1.4GHz (non S version). It would have been interesting to see how much difference there is.
What a piece of beautiful hardware !!! On my first pc i had a p3 at 600MHz but i was too young to understand which model it was... nice processor which gave me hundreds hours of playing games
i'm coming to Australia next year . i'll meet you for sure
The first time I built a Tualatin 1.4GHz and put a reasonable graphics card in it (Geforce 2 MX I think), I was blown away. I actually built computers for a living back in the day, and I just don't remember anything that smooth at the time.
Sounds niice, except for the GF 2 MX. That card was never reasonable :D
It seems ok. Are you sure you aren't thinking of the TNT2 M64? The GeForce 2 MX 400 was not top of the line. But it is way better than what I had back in the day!
Geforce 2 MX was the most rebranded video card ever until the Geforce 8800 series, and then AMD R9 290x (which is still planned for another re-release as the RX 580X!)
I still have a 1,266GHz P3-S and an Asus TUSL2-C Mainboard, which I will reassemble again after your inspiration :-) . Have you ever had a Pentium-M, running with the Asus CT-479 on a Socket 478 Mainboard? That's my other retro-PC-rig, overclocked from 1,73GHz to 2,4, running great on Windows XP for a very long time...
I really wanted one of these after seeing a PC manufacturer paired these with DDR RAM for their top tier machines but the whole system was $2200 without a monitor.
I had a 1.2 GHz Tualatin Celeron to upgrade from my Pentium II 300Mhz cpu.
I purchased the Celeron together with a slot cassette adapter so it could fit into the slot of a Pentium 2.
My PC came to life again in a crazy way! Best CPU upgrade ever. Well, maybe together with my Kingston upgrade chip which was based on the AMD 5x86-133 Mhz cpu, to upgrade my Intel 486-66 Mhz cpu. That was also one bloody good upgrade.
Sigh, where are the days...
used in OG Xbox CPU upgrades,
But it breaks compatibility with some games; also there’s really no need for it because the console is locked to 24fps. There is also a 128MB of RAM mod, but again what’s the point?
RWL2012 emulators and other apps
RWL2012 but your right since they've been using more compatible chips now, games do exist that are patched for the upgrades.
oh fair enough :)
what are the more compatible chips...?
The open air computer case at 0:40. Did you make that or can it be purchased?
My CSS course's server room has 3 old Compaq servers each with 2 Tualatins.
My 1.4 ghz tualatin died, it suddenly stated to have high temps and to no longer boot windows and then when i take it out of the computer to see what's the problem the heatspreader was glued to the heatsync and the rest of the cpu was in the socket, so that's how i have delidded my tuialatin 4.1 ghz without the intention of doing it, but now my retro system is running fine with a 1133 mhz pentium 3s, i am looking for a replacement in shops in my city that have bins of used computer parts, so i can bring back to full speed my voodoo 5 5500 system, but why did you use a voodoo 5 5500 as ruler? I'd also like to see the voodoo 5 benchmark with different processors, and if you have a motherboard with a kt333 chipset, that's one of the fastest that can support the voodoo 5, so try to use one of those with the fatest cpu you can get for it
Wow, it sounds like your 1.4GHz Tualatin had a serious manufacturing defect. It probably started overheating because the integrated heat spreader lost it's adhesion to the die. The fact that it came off when you pulled the heatsink was just a secondary effect.
I just rewatched this video cause I wasn't sure if I needed a better graphics card for win98 or a better cpu. I have a GF2Ti on a 1000EB system with a VIA 133T chipset motherboard (GA-6VTXE). I also have an FX5900XT and I compared both cards and found out that the GF2Ti is faster in low resolutions but the FX5900XT is way ahead in resolutions like 1280x1024 and in some games in 1024x768 too. So I realized that the FX is severely bottlenecked by the cpu, hence I definetely need this tualatin processor!
You mentioned the Athlon fx-57, that was the single core version of the 939 athlon 64 fx CPU right? I have a fx-60 that I bought of eBay about 5 years ago to replace the 4200+ I had originally. The absolute best socket 939 cpu.
Yea it's the fastest single core FX.
theres Tualatin based Celerons...
wonder how much of a difference the cache size and bus speed really makes
Got to love Taulatin CPUs
I now have one of these, with a QDI Advance 10T motherboard :)
I bought that processor with cash when it came out...everyone thought I was crazy, I guess I was emotional...
You should try to build a Scoket 479 Pentium M PC (yes, there are standard mATX and ITX desktop motherboards for the mobile Pentium and Celeron M), and see how does it compares to the 1.4 GHZ Tualatin PIII and a P4 of the same era.
The 1.86 GHz Pentium M 750 performs at the same level as a 2.8 GHz Pentium 4.
Pham Nguyen Duc Tin yeah the Pentium 3 based mobile CPUs were much better than the p4 chips and that is why the core line did not add onto the p4 architecture but rather use the Pentium m for reference because of its lower power consumption and better performance per MHz
Nils Pc Vids yes inded the Pentium Pro derived into PII & PIII... this design was used as the foundation for the core lineup wich is what Intel evolved up to the current CPUs 😊
Still works to this very day!
i got mine in a 440bx board with a socket adapter, pretty amazing.
Once again Phil, You're a fount of knowledge. (PS: I wish modern CPUs would come with out the IHS. Problem is they won't take the risk of some idiot breaking the chip.)
It would be nice to see a test of Tualatin PIII-S 1400MHz on motherboards with different chipsets like: i440BX / i815 / i820 / VIA 694T / ALiM1651T / SiS630ET. My guess is that intel 440BX would win that competition ;)
These really good videos and stuff, what would like with these era of gaming, if you would not be better off going with one of more common Athlon xp cpu you would find around early 2000s?
Pentium III S was legendary. It was so good that it was quite obvious that, from the beginning, the Netburst Design was a dead end road. Overclocked PIII-S destroyed the Willamette Pentium 4 CPUs. PIII-S lost against the Northwood ones. However, you had to consider that it lacked SSE2, it lacked the quad pumped FSB, it lacked fast Ram and it lacked the enhanced data prefetch unit. It was obvious that developing the P6 architecture would have been the better choice. And the proof came a bit later with the mobile Pentium-M. At the beginning, Intel still pushed the myth that high clockability of the NetBurst would give them an advantage. But when the first desktop motherboard for the Pentium-M came out and the overclocked Dothan Pentium-M destroyed everything, including the P4 Extreme Editions, Intel couldn´t hide the truth any longer. The final nail in the coffin of Netburst was the throtteling of the extremely hot running Prescott CPUs (3rd Generation Netburst).
what capture card do you use to capture that crystal clear game footage?
i still have my first pc that has a 1Ghz tualatin celeron on it and a AOpen MX3S-T. i got it from my school at the time, no idea why they threw it out. it was fine and they were still using that model. but hey i finally could play better games and this was somewhere around the year 2003-2005 or so.
Great video 👍
I had a P3 1GHz back in the day, and it was a beast at the time. Being a student I was looking for a budget option to upgrade, and the prospect of just swapping out the CPU was appealing, but my Via chipset motherboard wasn't compatible with the Tualatin processors. Clearly the P4 was the way Intel was going, but P4 motherboards and CPUs commanded a pretty hefty price premium, so I just ended up going with an AMD Athlon XP 1900+ thoroughbred. My next upgrade was an Athlon 64, but I did eventually get a P4, which was a cast-off from a friend's upgrade.
Got to check out AMD on a more period correct board, like with SD-RAM or early DDR, usually I use a modern KT600 board.
P3 S 1.4ghz scales up nicley up to Gf4 ti 4600... P3-S is a must have/super chips for us retro maniacs. The bad things is the lack of SSE2 support and the drawbacks of the platform hence to intel favoring the P4(still we love this chip too). Tulatin 512 is the ancestor of Core line...it late became Banias..then Dothan an so goes to history.
I've just sold my Tualatin, I am really sad because of that, but I already have too much retro stuff. It's not that good as people believe, yes, it's more efficient architecture than first Pentium 4s, but it's still Pentium 3 and it doesn't have enough performance to play games from that period of time on ultra in resolution higher than 1024x768, but it's interesting piece of history.
how come you didn't test it against the obvious? atlhon 1.4ghz
[edit] well i guess it loses to the atlhon since i used to get 11k 3dmarks 2001 with mine and an overclocked ti4400 that was a bit a tiny bit slower than a stock ti4600
7:38 ... note other users, even after releiving some of the tenstion on the cooler support bracket, becareful with SMD components near the cpu socket, intel socket cpu motherboards are notorious for it. Case in point, i have an ASUS TUSL2-C motherboard running with a P3 1400S, when i was building the new system, and while still being extra careful, i accidently knocked off an SMD capacitor near the cpu socket, i went down too far with the bracket while trying to install the cooler. Luckily, i was able to reattach the SMD capacitor properly, so what i did afterwards before putting the cooler back on, i cut off just the ends, on both sides of the metal brackets that there isnt a cpu socket tab for, problem solved for future dissasembly and reattachment of the cpu cooler. AMD motherboard manufactures had it mostly right by keeping any and all SMD components clear of the cpu socket and puting a protective strip of transparent plastic just underneith the cpu attachement tabs.
I got a pin-modded Tully 1400 in my Compaq Deskpro with i815 chipset. It's a great cpu, and makes for an awesome year 2000ish system.
It's time for another Legacy of Kain game.
A good option is also the Pentium III-S 1266 MHz, it is alot cheaper in comparison and still got the 512k Cache and all the Tualatin benefits. But careful as there is also a 1266 MHz Tualatin with only 256k cache.
Hehe, you know me so well, gotta love top of the line stuff. ;p nice video!
The Tualatin was always expensive and hard to find even new. Motherboard compatibility was a problem as well. I had the P3 1Ghz and it worked well for years until I went to the P4 Prescott. Totally skipped the Willamette because the Prescott kept my room warmer in the Winter time. lol
The Pentium 3 Tualatin is indeed an amazing CPU. It's worth noticing that they can also be still be used for daily tasks even today, in 2018. I do use a Tualatin 1.40Ghz as my main machine. Let me show you a video of my machine in action:
ruclips.net/video/7v9t8qPXmkU/видео.html
Pardon the potato quality, I know the video sucks, but I wanted to give a proof that Tualatins can still be useful today and do much more things than just play old games. :)
Many games will refuse to start on this processor due to the lack of the SSE2/SSE3/SSE4 instruction set. The multiplier is locked on Pentium III 1400, which limits its overclocking capabilities so IP4 with DDR was better choice in 2002
@@FatalityOCC I use SetFSB to overclock it, but it requires the right combination of RAM, adeguate cooling and a good PSU. You can overclock it through BIOS if you have an Asus TUV4X but you can't go beyond certain frequencies, the rest must be done with SetFSB in Windows.
Pentium 4 was just bad
Yeah, its very versatile like the athlon, in that it can run windows ME or windows 7 equally well with appropriate ram, a high end gpu (radeon x850 to be compatible for both windows versions) and a good IDE ATA133 SSD. :)
The pentium III had a flat cooler? I had/have an athlon XP with exposed die, and had a cooler with a hole to put the die (not totally flat).
Like someone else wrote earlier, I'd love to se a comparison between this and a P4 at 1.4GHz and a Athlon at the same speed to see how they compare.
I bet AMD will win like it always does, but seeing by how much would make a great video ;)
And that's where things get tricky, as there are so many different motherboard options, chipsets, RAM standards. Fanboys come out with their pitchforks for the oddest reasons and whatnot :D But for sure, there will be something like that at some point in the future :D
Looking forward for it :)
Its all about chipsets there. The full fat P3 Tualatin with FSB133 and 512K of L2 is pretty strong, in period correct setup it would beat Athlon on like KT133. But if you give the Athlon Nforce 2 it will easily win. The whole K7 platform is extremely bus/memory bottlenecked and running the same CPU with low FSB and Sdram chipset vs high FSB low latency DDR chipset (like Nforce2) it can be like 60% difference in gaming according to my own tests. For example Im using Barton overclcoked to 2,2 Ghz on Abit AT7A, that is KT133 board and compared to Tualatin on 1,7 in Intel BX they trade evenly. If I put the same Barton on the same 2,2Ghz on Nforce 2 and throw it FSB200/DDR400 it becomes 60% faster.
On the P4 side, P4 has the quad-pumped FSB so it has little platform bottleneck, but the CPU itself is pathetic and has low IPC. Typically The P4 platform does well on memory bottlenecked engines, like quake3, but anything CPU/FPU intensive like Unreal engine or most other games it needs like 1Ghz more to even think of competing.
Looking to buy one of these, with a gigabyte motherboard that still has ISA slot so I can use as a DOS machine as well.
I just bought a 1.4 Ghz PIII and am looking to get a quieter cooler. I am currently using a stock PIII cooler, but it is way too loud. I searched for the Arctic Cooling Copper Silent 3 that you used, but it appears to be out of stock in the USA. Can you recommend any other similar quiet Tualatin-friendly coolers? Thanks.
I didn't hear it mentioned but the Tualatin seems to have gotten rid of the ISA slot. You can still use the P3 1100 and 1000 in a slot configuration with converter board and keep an ISA video card. I don't see the perf being a big deal, everything on the highest non P3-S works great.
Yea with Intel chipsets, basically no ISA with Socket 370. But VIA has you covered!
I'm using an AOpen ax6bc 440bx board with a Tualatin 1.4 in a modified adapter. Probably wasn't worth the cost when I could build a P4 or XP system for half the price but like you say, there's something about having the best of an era.
Dear Phil!
I finally built my retro pc following your excellent videos!
But on the start up screen my PIII is recognized as 1GHz rather than 1.4 My purchase was a PIIIs Tualatin 1.4GHz on ebay and my Mb is an ASUS TUSL2 with the Intel 815 chip. Is there a fixable reason or did they send me the wrong CPU?
Thanxxxxxx
simply said the Tualatin was/is A LEGEND
after this CPU i was buying AMD Athlon 64 3700+
and the AMD X2 4800+
then the Core 2 Quad Q6600
continued with the I7 980 6 core
and now , it looks like i will be going back to AMD after sooo many years
a friend of min has a re-capped abit bp6 with a couple of the 1.4ghz celeron Tualatin chips in adapters, water cooled, and overclocked as far as the chip would go(the board will do 165mhz fsb with the other chips we have put in it...that were replaced...
its genuinely amazing for its era... destroys any pentium-d you compare it to...
the cpus and adapters cost him a good bit, but...he wanted to try it and the site that sold him the combo guariteed it would work.. they had the p3 full version but suggested the celeron ver since it wasnt much dif, if i remember correctly the only dif in the case of the models he got, was fsb being 100 by default rather then 133... but 1.4ghz by default so higher default multi....heh...
these were sort of like the k6-3 of its day... you didnt see them for sale alot... but people who had them loved them... (i had a few friends with the k6-3 that got 600-650 out of them...one of our friends removed the lid and made a shim at his fathers work... he got 750 out of his using a swiftech cooler.... the risk of breaking a core was high...he killed 2 k6-2 before getting the shim correct...
Cool stuff! Hope you will someday do a dedicated P3 1Ghz/1.1Ghz copermine build with 815 like chip-set to see what can we achieve (max) from such an affordable system (still) .. What GPU is the best for such system etc etc :)
In memory timings, CL2 stands for CAS latency 2.
I just set up a computer with a 933MHz Coppermine PIII. I wonder how it would compare in terms of performance.
Very interesting. Is it to fast for Win 3.11? (For Workgroups?).
i had a tualatin running at 1.2 ghz, then upgraded to a p4 northwood, or downgraded to be honest...
i still have a p3 -s, if i only had a mobo for it...
Awsome video as allways :D
I miss older tech too! 66MHZ turbo to 99mhz, duron, turion, xp1800, G-force2, TI4200, Hyperdrive, still got my 80mhz Epson laptop though!!!!!!!!!!
I've had no luck with the Abit-VH6T on the P3 Tualatin 1.4ghz, only recognises the 1.1 sadly.
So the corsair vs450 psu has enough power on the 5 and 3.3 line?
Im having a real problem finding a good psu for my intel815aae motherboard.
It only has one 20pin for power.
I would love a retro psu guide video.
Pentium 3 should work with any half-decent modern PSU! VS450 should work just fine.
@@philscomputerlab
Ok so
Win98se
P3 933mhz (1.4ghz later)
Geforce 4400t 128mb
40gb ide hdd
512mb ram
Cd rom ide drive
Sb live! 5.1
And a few fans ofc.
I hear alot of talk about the psu power standard changing around 2002?
And the focus went away from the 5v and 3.3v rails to 12v rail.
I understand there should be some truth too this claim but maybe for more power hungry hardware then?
Could you shine some light on this for me and the rest of us.
I see there are others who wonder aswell when i do google searches.