@@masaheimoiThey had too or then Germany wouldn’t have felt compelled to seed anything to Italy Same reason for attacking Egypt. Italy thought Germany was gonna get the W soon so in order to not miss out on a seat in negotiations Italy had to attack
This is why Mussolini kept asking Hitler for absurd amounts of resources: he knew Italy wasn't ready and showed it as much as he could: he begged a lot
Wrong, when it was clear germany was about to start a war mussolini sent galeazzo ciano to negotiate with them to stop the war, adolfs answer to this was the simple question of "what would you need to join the war?" so mussolini turned to his generals for a list of materials and armaments they'd need to somewhat catch up, and yea it was absurd. He didn't beg for anything, he was seriously not the type, he was given a blank cheque to keep him happy, he was much more important in the international landscape of politics than he's given credit for.
@@tomhenry897 a little late for that. He had spent a fortune on two invasions and genocides by then. Also Italy had no solution for wartime sanctions, and didn’t even start working on the problem for a while after it reared its head.
Which is right too, because Italy was adopting a new cartridge, which they then had to abandon and suddenly transition back to their old cartridge, which made them even worse off than if they never started the switch to begin with.
That is really true, ironically. They were right in the middle of transitioning to a new standard of rifle ammunition and carbine package . They wanted to drop the old "Long" rifle and adopt a modern rendition of the "Special Troops" variant, on the same wave as Germany dropping the Gewehr 98 in favor of the K98k. This would also have come with a much, much needed restructuring of the Infantry, which was still stuck in a WW1 order of battle. Additionally, they were in the early stages of launching a program to give all infantry sections 1-2 semi-automatic rifles to boost their firepower. All of these plans got scrapped as soon as the war started, with Italy compromising a bit by producing stocks of the Carcano 91/41, which was kind of better than the 91 Lungo, but far from the restructuring the Regio Esercito would have needed.
Nearly all thr players of ww1 were exactly because of deals like this. Besides US but it's really amazing how slippery a slope that alliance and war thing went.
and then Japan to Hitler: Oh, By the way, we bombed America Hitler: Oh? So where does that leave us? Japan: IDK, we got until maybe 1945 when the US builds bombs and turns us into glass.
Mussolini: so.. i have 3 years to prepare the army right? Hitler: ya *proceds to invade poland* Mussolini: hold up *france and britain declare war* Mussolini: wait a minute *operation barbarossa* Mussolini: something aint right
@@gaychainsaw646 *gets stopped by the king who instead arrest him* Mussolini in prison: at least some peace *sees german troops liberating him* Mussolini: bruh
It didn't matter Hitler had Mussolini by the balls by this point in history had he objected Hitler would've killed him right there and took Italy for himself. Would've actually helped Hitler . Mistakes were made for sure.
@@bobfg3130 it would've turned Italy against him? Italy was already against him. Mussolini took massive amounts of resources that Hitler actually needed and Mussolini thought he had time to build an army. History shows Mussolini infact wasn't ready when Hitler sprung into actions. It would've been more in Hitler's favor to simply storm the border with the finest of his military might n take over. Many Italians turned on Mussolini because he sided with Hitler aswell. Mussolini got his bluff called and it didn't end well. History shows Mussolini wasn't a betting man he was just another gambler gobbled up by the house.
@@vexillarius3356 You've got france wrong, many call them cowards or make white flag jokes and forget about Vichy France which was basically a sleeper cell government waiting for the NAZIs to come
@StarFreighterPilotGothJesus Vichy government was literally a German puppet set up after they invaded Paris. In the actual assault, they were taken out in a couple of weeks of blitzkrieging. Complicated issue of course. First is that they also weren't entirely ready. They had the Maginot Line as their main defense, but there was a gap because Belgium didn't like the implication that France would sit behind a wall and let them be invaded. Belgium was supposed to build their own Maginot Line to complete the defensive lines, but they just didn't, so the Germans rolled through Belgium and then into France, who was not prepared for the Line to be entirely sidestepped. Their doctrine and technology hadn't really improved much since the last war either.
@@Hypastpist Duuude, this actually pretty much happened to me. Was playing as fascist Mexico with a buddy and a friend of his, both of whom had a lot of DLCs and my vanilla ass asked them to go to vanilla, they didn't, and then later there was awkward silence when letting the fascist rebellion in fact did not flip me automatically to the fascist side like I remembered happening in vanilla.
Italy did refuse the deal and did not join, but after germany took france and got the balkan under their sphere italy joined unprepered as they saw it urgent before germany took whole of the balkan.under there sphere of influence
@@nathon1942Because France and Britain promised to protect Poland, naturally they'd declare war on Germany. Germany wasn't caught off-guard, they knew damn well attacking Poland was the last straw.
You also have to think Italy was coming from recent invasion of Ethiopia and heavy military aid to Spanish nationalists, both victories, but they were DRAINED
The Germans themselves weren't planning for a major war until the latter half of the 1940s. They planned to take Poland the same way they'd taken their other conquests, and thought that France and Britain would choose to again stay out of it. England was aware that Germany was planning on waiting, and part of the reason for the appeasement policy was to buy time for Britain and her allies to build up to be ready by the time war did come. 1940 kinda threw a wrench into everybody's plans.
Thanks, glad to see somebody else point this out. Hitler gambled hard on Britain & France backing down like they did with all the other targets. They just kinda had to quickly implement their actual war plans, instead of the "marching in and *not* fighting" plans... Also, since it was mentioned in the short, having plans for invasions of all sorts is kinda the military's job, even moreso in a war-hungry, militaristic regime like Germany. Also not telling their allies about their exact plans is kind of the signature move of the Axis powers in WW2, much to their detriment...
Exactly. When he authorised Plan Z to make the navy on par with the British navy in case of a war with the UK, the Kriegsmarine told him they wouldn't be ready to challenge Britain until 1946. Hitler agreed to this. He didn't want war with Britian or France, and if a war was going to happen against them he thought it would be much further in the future. Same thing with the Soviets. It was a 10 year aggression pact for a reason. Even if you believe he intended to break it like he did in real life, or like did to Poland. He broke the Polish pact after 5 years, he broke the Soviet one in only 2 years, and there were reasons for that. The British blockade causing a fast decrease in oil and food (which not only they needed to fight the UK, but if they didn't attack the Soviets, then they'd be too low on resources to ever go for it), the poor soviet performance in findland, the British wanting to sway the Soviets to their side, the threat of the USA joining at some point and a need for resources in case that happened, the Soviets taking the piss in negotiations and the element of suprise because Stalin didn't expect Hitler to be stupid enough to attack before Britain's defeat
@@julienvalley28 There are many reasons the Japanese joined when they did. One reason is the Japanese felt they could achieve their territorial aims, and they did for the first 6 months, because the colonial powers in Asia were distracted in Europe. The German gains in the soviet union had little to do with it though. In fact Japan had only 2 choices when it came to achieving self sufficience, invade south east asia or invade the soviet union with Germany. The japanese were in agreement that their country could not do both at once and had to pick either a war with the USSR OR a war with the USA and UK. Since Japan's defeat against the soviets in The Battles of Khalkhin Gol in 1939 and the German's failure to knock out the soviets before the winter, as well as American antagonism, they picked the latter. So it wasn't German success, but rather German failure that sealed Japan's fate and spared the USSR a two front war.
Japan Germany Italy: "let's all agree to help each other in several years" Germany: "Let's do this Leroy Jenkins!!!" *goes early Japan: "I bombed pearl harbor " Italy: "what"
🤣🤣🤣🤣 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That Joke of the Kriegsmarine! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You really think that barzelletta of a bunch of ships in the Atlantic was even close to be a decent force? 🤣🤣🤣🤣 I've seen jokes but this is the best. "Germans good at sea war" BUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! The next? "Americans with a brain"? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
But France wasn't exactly preparing for war before the war had already started anyway. Irl they have managed to prepare for the invasion during the Phoney war period, but the problem was not that their army was small or unequiped. The problem was it's outdated WW1 doctrine. Tanks were used only as infantry support, airplanes weren't used for ground support, the units werent supplied with radios and weren't mobile enough, they expected trench warfare once again, etc. If they were given 3 more years they wouldn't just start modernizing their army out of the blue, and even if they did it probably wouldn't have been enough time to really modernize. And the Ardennes would probably still be left undefended.
They wouldn't be as pathetic, and I do believe they could have been a threat to Britain but yeah. Also, everything else would have been more prepared. I don't think it would have affected much, but it wouldn't have made Italy into a burden of Germany.
The reason why Mussolini didn't want to start a war until 1942 was because Industrial Engineers had estimated it'd take until at least 1942 for Italy to have sufficient industrial capacity to challenge the western power - a fact they did inform the Germans of. As a result Italy went into the war woefully under equipped being one of the main reasons they performed so terribly other than corrupt and inexperienced commanders. So it's kinda actually Germany's fault the Italians sucked so much actually, as they started the war before their ally was ready. Just another example of how the axis powers were terrible at cooperation, which would make a good episode.
@@Mr.Salmonismif italy knew they were so underequipped why attack greece and the british? They should have just stayed back and send troops to germany. Its not just being underequipped what made them suck so bad
@@PrvnCokethey attacked the British because they were told Sea Lion was imminent and France had fallen. Greece was to not be subdued and also because Germany broke agreements regarding the Balkans
There really isnt one. He just forced Musolini's hand so that when shit hit the fan soon after Hitler had more meat, I mean uhhh, men to send into the meat grinder. Uhhh I mean the battle, yes the battle, not the meat grinder
None, Germany didn't expect the Allies to put their foot down for Poland either, they just threw their plans into action ad-hoc after Britain figured out Apeasment is BS....
well, let's say Mussolini promised NOT TO INVADE GREECE. Even though he allied with Germany with the promise of creating a new Roman Empire. Hitler was "DO NOT INVADE GREECE" and Mussolini was "Oh no" but he felt Italy could handle it on their own and invaded anyway. Germany was busy planning the invasion of the Soviet Union and did not have troops to send to Greece, but had to help Italy out. Don't ask about North Africa. Italy had Germany involed in so many fronts we all owe them a thank you for helping Germany lose the war.
This feels like the prologue to a stand-alone movie. Everything makes sense now. The Italians weren’t incompetent, they were forced into war. That’s why Benny wasn’t a big fan of Hitler, that’s why they had so few resources. Their betrayal makes so much sense now. Oh my god
@@NoFlu well mussolini before the alliance said the he wouldn't ally with people that were huting hares naked while we where building civilization, the thought of the other being inferior was mutual
um, hello? The Italians weren't big fans of the Germany alliance. But Mussolini ignored German orders to NOT INVADE GREECE, as the Germans did not have the spare troops to help Italy. Mussolini promised and then did it anyway. So Germany is tied up in Greece (the Italians could not win Greece), and also North Africa. Mussolini was a huge fan of Scipio Africanus, and even had a movie made about the leaders life that kids had to watch in school. So he saw German alliance as a way to get a new Roman Empire. In the end, the Germans found becoming an ally with Italy helped them lose the war.
If you mean WW1 Germany actually wanted to instantly declare war in Serbia or not at all. They only thought it okay as long as public opinion on their side. Then the kaiser went on vacation though and Austria dragged their feet only to then still declare war. Look it up the Kaiser was PISSED
Yep. But they wanted the same thing as Germany, but hitler wanted the backup and the southern flank covered without having to share too much of the spoils. It’s probably one of the reasons Franco kept Spain out of the whole mess.
@@robertaylor9218 true but Italy couldn't fight Germany at the time even though they prepared to in the beginning the Italians built a very large fortification in the north of Italy to protect itself from Germany but realized it wasn't going to work
@@jonathanmckeage8222 oh yeah. Germany would’ve rolled right over them. The panzer 2 could’ve steamrolled Italian armor. The Italian military doctrine, equipment, and organization was geared towards domination and genocide of peoples decades behind in warfare. They were basically the goa’uld from stargate. Easily able to dominate and murder people behind them in technology, but laughably outclassed by any power even resembling a peer. All that said, until all of Italy was secured, Germany would be massively exposed. And based on terrain alone that might take an uncomfortably long time. Ad to that Germany would have to either refuse the alliance or would have to betray it directly, as they would have to take out Italy AFTER France. Any way you look at it, the math says no.
@@robertaylor9218Moreso because Spain was in no condition to fight after the civil war. Damage within the country was massive, both industrial and even more important (and tragic) damage to the population. Spain went through borderline starvation years past the civil war, combine that with the political instability and factionalism within the early years of Franco's regime, it makes a good reason not to get involved (except for warcrimes in the east)
Remember reading about the Italian high command telling their allies about the time they needed before a war started. So it really is Germanys fault that they had such a useless friend in that war.
well and Italy Army and Mussolini... Mussolini did not wait to invade Greece or start sniffing out Colonies on the North African front. Germany was "Wait you are supposed to be helping US, and instead you are making us send troops as you can't handle these invasions by yourself!" Hitler made Mussolini promise he would NOT INVADE ANYTHING, and Mussolini at this time was "Hey Hitler, you modeled yourself on ME, You aren't the boss of me!" Then it was "Opps we're losing in Greece, help!"
And the conditions of the Greece people after their surrender. Shit was horrific and I didn't know for the longest time, was way more Eastern Front then Western, that's for sure
Hitler TOLD MUSSOLINI, DO NOT INVADE GREECE! Mussolini promised and did it anyway. Mainly as his own people were confused how German goals were their goals. But they could all agree on Greece. Then Germany had to come save them. Which hurst Germany. Did they want to be in North Africa and Greece, and Russia? Nope. But it sure helped stretch their supply lines.
Which is stupid. Why not let your ally prepare for war precisely? Italy was expecting the war, they were okay with it. Don't give them 3 years less to prepare. I can't see the point of this. I can imagine Italy getting back at Germany and Germany like "It was just a prank bro!"
3 extra years for Italy would also be 3 extra years to France and Britain, 3 extra years being at mercy of Stalin for economic production. Also, Nazis prepared for war against Poland, not against France and UK because the expectation was they would give Poland the same treatment as Czechoslovakia
If Italy was ready so would the Allie’s be ready. That also applies to neutral countries like Poland. Germany had a tank program broken up into components since the Weimar Republic. Italy would have had a lot of things caught up, but they would still be outpaced by the allies. Worse Germany would’ve lost the edge it had carefully built up by then. No way they could’ve kept their tanks and weapons secret that long. The blitz may or may not have failed, the invasion of France may or may not have succeeded. Dunkirk probably wouldn’t have had to be evacuated. The Soviet Union would’ve either quietly joined the axis. Either way it would’ve rebuilt from the purge and re-professionalized their army.
I didn't criticise the moment of the attack, I criticise not letting your ally know in advance when you plan to do things and instead lie to them making them think they have more time. That's the stupid part. Although it might be true that they didn't expect WW2 to trigger so soon, I doubt that, they knew full well that Poland wouldn't submit and that the allies would have to intervene, they had been preparing for that and they had been waiting for the Spanish Civil War to end. In any case, if they where to postpone the attack: The Soviets were attacked afterwards anyway, and they got better by fighting the Germans, out of necessity. Germany and Italy were militarizing way faster than the allies could, meaning more time is better for them.
Not really Italian air support we’re one of the only reasons Rommel lasted as long as he did in the desert the Italian pilots outclassed the allied pilots in the desert for a long time and kept massive amounts of air supplies coming in as well as hindered British naval movements heavily in the Mediterranean Also during the American invasion of Italy despite a lot of rebellion and insurrection and such Italian soldiers put up a hell of a fight in Italy even tho they were “commandeered” by the Germans The only true blot in Italys ww2 performance that didn’t directly stem from their really really shitty wartime industry’s (lack of heavy motors and absolutely pieces of shit tanks) was their pathetic front against France in the alps sure a lot of French were killed and the Italians kept some very good units contained but for how many men died on both sides there was remarkably little territory gained by the Italians it really was quite pathetic
please know that all history shows that the Italian Army and the citizens of Italy were so confused about WHY they were allies of Germany. Mussolini was the reason why. Hitler based his own campaign to rule on Mussolini and admired him greatly. Mussolini was flattered and joined up with Germany while the rest of the nation was "Wait, WHY are we doing this? WE're not ready and the goals of Germany are not our goals!" The Italians were not bad, but they were also not motivated as there was nothing in it for them. That's one reason Mussolini invaded Greece, so he could show Hitler how great the Italian Army was... and then Hitler had to send Germans to help out. Thank you Italy, as everyone else understood this was a dumb alliance, and especially in North Africa, Italian prisoners of war were very nice and polite. The germans were grumpy, but the Italians were well liked by the British and Americans.
Pretty much. Most thought they had until the Benelux before Britain and France would actually step to the plate. The fact that Germany didn't share their plans completly was something they kept up for the rest of the war, inter-axis communication was pisspoor overall...
I mean yes this is true to an extent, but it's also important to note that Hitler didn't believe France and the UK would actually back Poland and start WW2 in 1939. He didn't manipulate Italy to join from a surprise invasion because he didn't think that would start the war, at least until the UK and France had more time to re-arm. Also Italy didn't join until 11 months after Hitler invaded Poland, they had plenty of time to prepare and Mussolini declared war in June 1940 when France was already doomed so he had a seat at the peace table.
And Italy still produced some good naval power and very good aircraft Tanks were Italy’s shortcoming but an armored vehicle with a seizable gun usually works(Italy was also close to getting rights to produce Panther tanks but 1943 called) If you arnt ready for a war, don’t be surprised that you do bad
Our planes were also a problem, actually. We could produce very good engines, but it was mostly single pieces, impossible or at least very hard to manufacture in large quantities while keeping the same quality. In short, we weren't ready at all
There is actually a great book about this which deals with Italy's entry into the war seen from the prospective of the Italian Merchant Marine which had I think upwards of 60% of it's ships outside of the Mediterranean when the war started and many were unable to sail to friendly ports (I.e. Japan or Thailand) and being forced to go into mostly neutral ports and being effectively interned there because they could not make it back to the Mediterranean, which in turn severely hampered Itlian Operations in North Africa as well as Italy's ability to make use of her newly conquered lands
Also Mussolini invented this state that in Italian is called "non belligeranza" that basically means they supported Germany but didn't join the war (until the french where basically dead)
Bro this changes my whole view on Italy, I always thought they were trash but this is proof they could’ve been good if Austrian painter wasn’t trigger happy.
With friends like that who needs enemies. . ya think hitler was kicking himself when they had to spend resources to help italy as the italtians couldnt take or hold ground??
The best part? Having to help italy SO MUCH in northern africa and greece was one of the key factors that kept them from being able to beat the soviets (or, more likely, just lose less quickly)
Hitler wasn't pissed when the Japanese attacked the USA. He was happy because he believed together they could beat them. Also the treaty he had with the Japanese was only a defensive one. It said if Germany or Japan were attacked by a nation they weren't currently at war with (it meant the USA) then the other party had to declare war. Japan was not attacked, it did the attacking, and yet Hitler declared war, even though he didn't have to.
Yes, but that was mostly Mussolini's ambitions, Italian High Command repeatedly warned him they were not ready before Greece and Egypt, Mussolini just sacked the ones who told him the truth and put yes men in their place with obvious results
Another thing to add is that the Italian army needed to upgrade and restock their equipment, and to train more troops because the ones they had were either tired from fighting other wars (like the Spanish one) or actively trying to keep under control the colonies, especially Ethiopia, which Italy had just "captured" (well, it lasted very briefly and the Ethiopians were still fighting for independence. The major cities had been captured, tho).
Stayuki can you do a basic summary on how almost all the problems the nazis had can be traced back to hitler during World War Two? EDIT: for clarity, the problems the nazis had during wwii being traced back to hitler.
Though blaming the Nazi defeat on hitler is stupid. German high command got cocky after the early war and thought Barbarossa was gonna be simple and quick. Most of them knew it would end up being attrition hell but almost all of them thought by the time winter set it, moscow would be fallen. When the war went south for them, they made shit up to look good in front of the winners. “Oh hitler was the sole reason we failed” “Oh the Soviets had the most OP weapons (but we still had the 2nd most totally 100% (both claims are dubious at best and false at worse)) “Oh the Wehrmacht didn’t do all of these war crimes we were honorable (blatantly false)”
Yeah that's a myth. Pretty much every mistake german high command did they later retconned to be Hitlers fault. Hitler was against operation Citadel and told them as much but let them continue with the plan against his best wishes (for an easy example) It's just that when Franz Holder and friends got to tell their stories post war, Hitler and most of his close confidants weren't really around to call out the bullshit.
@@Linesweeper they also put tanks like the t-34 up on a high pedestal, even though they were mediocre at best. the russians knew it was good propoganda so they just rolled with it
This is also one of the reasons the italian miltary preformed so poorly. They were going through a massive expansion and reorganization program when the war began, and were caught with their pants down. According to a military history visualized video I watched a while back the Italians had around 30% of the artillery they needed in 1939, along with a shortage of NCOs and officers.
Thank you for making this, this is another step of dispelling the common myth about Italy during the war and provide much needed context for those who simply rely on memes about it for info.
Mussolini was also afraid that if he didn't get involved Germany would dominate the Balkans as well, which Mussolini thought of as his backyard. He was also getting jealous of Hitler's succeses, and with the defeat of Poland, Denmark, Norway, Belgium, the low countries and France, he believed he needed to get involved before the war finished so he could be there at the victors table and get territory.
And he thought he'd use the opportunity in the war of creating "nova roma" his dream of conquering a Mediterranean- African empire and turning the Mediterranean Sea into "an Italian lake"
What also isn't known is Italy was in frantic secret negotiations with the allies promising not to invade France if the allies gave them concessions. Mussolini was actually fairly well liked in Europe, and many, including former US presidents admired him for how he manged to reform Italy from its mob run state if the early 1920s to a modern nation by 1940s standards. Mussolini really deserves his own TV show/ documentary, and needs to not always get lumped into Hitler's lot. They were pretty distinct from each other. Edit: Grammer
Ok, but I have to ask why? It seems like shooting yourself in the foot if you leave your ally under prepared for a massive war. Like you're expecting to lose with a decision like that.
Maybe to keep Italian bargaining to a minimum? Germany saying ‘I contributed most, therefore I get all the spoils’, or maybe it was so weaken Italy. Making Italy fight on the back foot from the start could have left them in a vulnerable position on the continent if Germany had won. I kinda doubt German expansion would have ended if they had won the war. I believe they’d have to keep expanding.
Only got on drugs in the latter half of the war, and then not even "real drugs" until it was more or less over. He basically took vitamins and medication helping his dumbass vegetarian diet starting from the mid 30s, that got worse with the stress of war and he took, what basically amounts to steroids and stomach cramp medication in 41/42, got onto that hard shit, meaning comon (for the time) opiod pain medication in late 43, which he kept up around mid-44, because then the allies bombed all the factories producing it...
@@theskiypdeeif he never tried to go for Poland and instead built up its resources and Allies it definitely wasn’t a sure outcome, especially when you consider how good the Germans did even when they industrially couldn’t compete with the Allies.
@@theskiypdee it came very close to happening. You shouldn't underestimate a nations potential offense just because the figurehead is 'crazy'.. you should do the opposite. We literally had to align ourselves with fucking STALIN and create the atom bomb to make sure we won. There are no sane leaders, just people with bigger bombs and more money.
To cover the flank and provide support. They started the race while Italy was still in the shower to minimize having to share the spoils, influence, and glory. Maybe hitler would’ve been better off betraying Mussolini instead of Stalin, but surrendering the Mediterranean to the Allies without a fight was probably not a pleasant prospect. Besides hitler wasn’t looking to have every country as a province of Germany, he wanted every country subservient to Germany. An ally who knows he’s a (very) distant second is close enough.
@@robertaylor9218 lol, no, Mussolini and Hitler were homies. Hitler not only copied Mussolini’s rise to Fascist control of Italy, he was basically a creepy fanboy of Mussolini. Hitler even made a weird scrapbook of all the times he and Mussolini went to each other’s capitols and had military parades for each other, which was taken as spoils when Americans captured Eagle Nest. Hitler went so far as to send in the Nazi equivalent of Seal Team 6 to rescue Mussolini from the Allies and re-establish him in Northern Italy. At this point, Mussolini was Just Done(tm), and Hitler viewed it as a huge betrayal. Which is probably why Italian pows were treated so horrifically by the Nazis, about on par with how Soviet pows were treated. But no, Hitler was not doing some big tactical thing in allying with Fascist Italy. Italian Fascism was a beta form of Nazism, and Hitler admired Mussolini. Hitler had no such admiration for Lenin and/or Stalin and hated communism (Nazis were fighting Communists in the streets of Germany long before WWII was ever a gleam in Hitler’s crazy eyes). The Nazi-Communist pact was a farce Hitler always intended to betray. He just stepped up his plans when he saw an “overwhelming” Soviet force get curbstomped by the Finns in the Winter War. Sure, as the war stretched on Hitler got more and more frustrated with Mussolini, but that was because Mussolini didn’t exactly have the same “zeal” for wwii as he did, and he was constantly having to bail Mussolini out. Both problems probably sourced back to the point of the video, though, so kind of a self-created problem there…
@@StarWarsomania if the alliance was so genuine and not at all a strategic play, why did hitler make damned sure the Italians didn’t know about Poland? He yelled at his generals that “they’d better not find out about our plans!”, who responded with “the allies?” “NO the Italians!”. I know that they were pretty close, but it seems pretty clear the alliance was a strategic one, which hitler trusted because they were ideologically aligned. He knew he couldn’t trust the soviets, though the rest of the reich seemed pretty eager to do so. Hell, he only allied with the Japanese so he could take Russia, as the obvious ally in the east for Germany was China. I don’t mean to come across as hostile. I just don’t think that sentiment was the primary reason, though I will concede that it was likely an important one.
Mussolini himself told Hitler that Italy wouldn't be ready for a major war until atleast 1941-42. The Axis powers major downfall was the lack of coordination between their members as apposed to the allies who could coordinate an attack on Germany wherever they were weakest such as the Soviets launching operation bagration and the allies launching D Day.
@@jabbayt7271 Greece was never going to be able to hold off Germany. That they held off the Italians is largely the Italians’ fault. They rushed the plans and prep and half-assed the affair. Little surprise Germany was able to sweep in after Italy softened them up.
@@jabbayt7271 okay, so? the fact a country like Greece held for almost as long as a superpower like France, lasted longer than Denmark, and messed up the Italians morale as much as they did; allows them to get a little bit of credit. they weren't going to war with a weak nation. it was a nation allied to one of the strongest powers at the time, which was only rivaled by the soviets and the USA.
Wow, that adds some interesting context then to later in the war when Italy went "rogue" and Hitler was pissed about it. Turnabout is fair play, I suppose.
You could also say Hitler also thought that Britain (if not even France) would not have intervened in favor of Poland, just like it didn’t with Czechoslovakia and Austria (which, fun fact, Italy also swore to protect Austria against Germany together with France and Britain).
The Brits during ww2 made a 86 ton tank called the TOG because they thought ww2 would be like ww1, now it's stuck in a museum that if ever moved out, would crack the floor beneath it
Even Hitler wanted start the war later! He didn’t think the allied would start over Poland a dictatorship at the time, since they wouldn’t start it over Europe’s oldest true democracy Czechoslovakia.
Italy had many issues with its military. During a meeting in 1939 it was the secretary of treasury who mentioned the poor weapons manufacturing when compared to modern countries, the secretary of defense of course was pissed while Mussolini was also angry he also saw this as an opportunity to expand military spending and future military operations into countries such Albania and Greece. The Italians knew a war was coming but they never expected the British Empire to be part of it, warmonger Churchill however was all over the idea.
Fun fact: He didn’t move the camera at all while recording this, instead he moved the position of the camera (in the editing software) and flipped it after every transition
Not sure i agree here Stat. Italy was a Member of the Triple Alliance in WW1 but broke it when Austro Hungry and Imperial Germany declared a World War but they opted out because they were not consulted beforehand. They could have done the same in WW2 but Mussolini had big dreams.
It should also be noted that Italy was under the impression when they joined against France in the final days that the war would be over once France fell. Britain was mediating peace talks with Italy and Mussolini was certain that Britain was going to surrender. Mussolini was by no means an idiot, the dude ruled Italy for 20+ years and many of his industrial and agricultural reforms were tremendous in transforming Italy. It’s sad that he was suckered into an alliance with Hitler .
So you arent going to mention the invasion of Ethiopia by Italy in 35? Italy was complicit and flipped last minute. The Chinese and Japanese were already at war before the invasion of Poland by Germany in 39 as well. The world was actually at war long before 39, things are just portrayed like they started over night.
Fun fact: when the war started, Italy asked for a very long list of stuff required for them to build weapons, tanks, bullets... The list was so long and full of precious materials that it would have needed years for Germany to find and ship all of that to Italy. The list is called "molibdeno's list"
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
All the "Italy was bad in WWII" memes make sense when you realize ol benny thought he had years to prepare
No joke Italy was still setting up their industry to support the war. They had to rush to war with prototypes and lack of equipment.
Mussolini was told by his generals that Italy would not be ready for war until 1943. Which is ironically the year they surrendered
A ww1 armed army going against tribesmen
And not doing that well
That's still a lot of excuse making.
Well when everyone knows you made this deal and everyone assumes no one is ready yet secretly 3 out of 4 are it makes for a great surprise.
Italy actually went “hey don’t start yet I’m not ready”
Naw. They joined the war in 1940 when they thought they could grab something from France on their own terms.
@@masaheimoithey sent help for Poland
@@ngodiecphen4146 😂, still early buddy jan 31st
@@masaheimoiThey had too or then Germany wouldn’t have felt compelled to seed anything to Italy
Same reason for attacking Egypt. Italy thought Germany was gonna get the W soon so in order to not miss out on a seat in negotiations Italy had to attack
@@1CE. I know. Saying Germany made Italy do it is very stupid.
This is why Mussolini kept asking Hitler for absurd amounts of resources: he knew Italy wasn't ready and showed it as much as he could: he begged a lot
That and somehow Mussolini didn’t think that economic sanctions would come with a declaration of war.
Wrong, when it was clear germany was about to start a war mussolini sent galeazzo ciano to negotiate with them to stop the war, adolfs answer to this was the simple question of "what would you need to join the war?" so mussolini turned to his generals for a list of materials and armaments they'd need to somewhat catch up, and yea it was absurd.
He didn't beg for anything, he was seriously not the type, he was given a blank cheque to keep him happy, he was much more important in the international landscape of politics than he's given credit for.
He just didn't want to join so he tried to not join by saying "hey dude i can't i need this *shows a enormous list*"
He wasn’t going to spend money he didn’t have on the army instead of on the population
@@tomhenry897 a little late for that. He had spent a fortune on two invasions and genocides by then. Also Italy had no solution for wartime sanctions, and didn’t even start working on the problem for a while after it reared its head.
adolf really just started the lobby when Italy is still changing his load out 😭
Italy was forced to use the defaults 😂
Haha
Which is right too, because Italy was adopting a new cartridge, which they then had to abandon and suddenly transition back to their old cartridge, which made them even worse off than if they never started the switch to begin with.
That is really true, ironically. They were right in the middle of transitioning to a new standard of rifle ammunition and carbine package . They wanted to drop the old "Long" rifle and adopt a modern rendition of the "Special Troops" variant, on the same wave as Germany dropping the Gewehr 98 in favor of the K98k. This would also have come with a much, much needed restructuring of the Infantry, which was still stuck in a WW1 order of battle. Additionally, they were in the early stages of launching a program to give all infantry sections 1-2 semi-automatic rifles to boost their firepower. All of these plans got scrapped as soon as the war started, with Italy compromising a bit by producing stocks of the Carcano 91/41, which was kind of better than the 91 Lungo, but far from the restructuring the Regio Esercito would have needed.
Nearly all thr players of ww1 were exactly because of deals like this. Besides US but it's really amazing how slippery a slope that alliance and war thing went.
Mussolini: Best friends right?
Hitler: Ya! I invaded Poland FYI!
Mussolini: *what?!*
Japan: attacks pearl harbour
Mussolini: WHAT?!?
@@KingOfTresune "Hitler declares war on the U.S"
Mussolini: *Bruh*
@@BHuang92 Italy *got auto-balanced to the blue team*
It's like Pearl Harbor memes with Japan saying "Hey germany I just attacked America!"
and then Japan to Hitler: Oh, By the way, we bombed America
Hitler: Oh? So where does that leave us?
Japan: IDK, we got until maybe 1945 when the US builds bombs and turns us into glass.
Mussolini: so.. i have 3 years to prepare the army right?
Hitler: ya
*proceds to invade poland*
Mussolini: hold up
*france and britain declare war*
Mussolini: wait a minute
*operation barbarossa*
Mussolini: something aint right
*pearl harbor gets attacked by the Japanese*
mussolini: sh-
*allies lands on Cicily*
mussolini: *aims Pistol on head*
@@gaychainsaw646
*gets stopped by the king who instead arrest him*
Mussolini in prison: at least some peace
*sees german troops liberating him*
Mussolini: bruh
@@gaychainsaw646 *Sicily
@Fiorino Pizio *gets captured by partisans and shot against the wall like a dog*
Mussolini:💀
That's why you read the user terms agreement before you sign.
He did. He just thought, "oh this couldn't possibly become an issue."
HumancentiPad
They read it.
The problem was they didn't revise it to take something really important into account.
when mf forgot "terms and agreements may change prior to notice by company"
@@Stuxkinadaze HumancentiBoot
If someone “REALLY REALLY REALLY” wants you in their “gang”, don’t be flattered, be “VERY VERY VERY” suspicious.
*Italy made terrible decisions the entire way. They didn't make one mistake.*
They made tens of thousands of mistakes. If not *millions.*
Especially when its the Nazis!
It didn't matter Hitler had Mussolini by the balls by this point in history had he objected Hitler would've killed him right there and took Italy for himself. Would've actually helped Hitler . Mistakes were made for sure.
@@nojusticejustus2912
No, Hitler wouldn't have killed Mussolini. That would have turned Italy against him.
@@bobfg3130 it would've turned Italy against him? Italy was already against him. Mussolini took massive amounts of resources that Hitler actually needed and Mussolini thought he had time to build an army. History shows Mussolini infact wasn't ready when Hitler sprung into actions. It would've been more in Hitler's favor to simply storm the border with the finest of his military might n take over. Many Italians turned on Mussolini because he sided with Hitler aswell. Mussolini got his bluff called and it didn't end well. History shows Mussolini wasn't a betting man he was just another gambler gobbled up by the house.
The more I learn about WW2,the more it sounds like a hoi4 match.
hoi4 match and you just started with your friend who has 1000hrs
@@vexillarius3356 You've got france wrong, many call them cowards or make white flag jokes and forget about Vichy France which was basically a sleeper cell government waiting for the NAZIs to come
@StarFreighterPilotGothJesus
Vichy government was literally a German puppet set up after they invaded Paris. In the actual assault, they were taken out in a couple of weeks of blitzkrieging.
Complicated issue of course. First is that they also weren't entirely ready. They had the Maginot Line as their main defense, but there was a gap because Belgium didn't like the implication that France would sit behind a wall and let them be invaded. Belgium was supposed to build their own Maginot Line to complete the defensive lines, but they just didn't, so the Germans rolled through Belgium and then into France, who was not prepared for the Line to be entirely sidestepped. Their doctrine and technology hadn't really improved much since the last war either.
@Akeion98 just wait until you read about the Battle of Castle Itter.
@@Hypastpist Duuude, this actually pretty much happened to me. Was playing as fascist Mexico with a buddy and a friend of his, both of whom had a lot of DLCs and my vanilla ass asked them to go to vanilla, they didn't, and then later there was awkward silence when letting the fascist rebellion in fact did not flip me automatically to the fascist side like I remembered happening in vanilla.
No wonder they lost, “lets make our ally think they have more time to prepare and then force them to go into war with nothing”
It’s not like Germany intended to fight Britain or France. Remember that France declared war on Germany, not the other way around.
Italy did refuse the deal and did not join, but after germany took france and got the balkan under their sphere italy joined unprepered as they saw it urgent before germany took whole of the balkan.under there sphere of influence
@@nathon1942Because France and Britain promised to protect Poland, naturally they'd declare war on Germany. Germany wasn't caught off-guard, they knew damn well attacking Poland was the last straw.
@@USSFFRU You mean the treaty they ratified four days into the invasion of Poland? 💀
@@USSFFRU you mean the treaty ratified 4 days into the invasion? 💀
You also have to think Italy was coming from recent invasion of Ethiopia and heavy military aid to Spanish nationalists, both victories, but they were DRAINED
The Germans themselves weren't planning for a major war until the latter half of the 1940s. They planned to take Poland the same way they'd taken their other conquests, and thought that France and Britain would choose to again stay out of it.
England was aware that Germany was planning on waiting, and part of the reason for the appeasement policy was to buy time for Britain and her allies to build up to be ready by the time war did come.
1940 kinda threw a wrench into everybody's plans.
Thanks, glad to see somebody else point this out. Hitler gambled hard on Britain & France backing down like they did with all the other targets. They just kinda had to quickly implement their actual war plans, instead of the "marching in and *not* fighting" plans...
Also, since it was mentioned in the short, having plans for invasions of all sorts is kinda the military's job, even moreso in a war-hungry, militaristic regime like Germany. Also not telling their allies about their exact plans is kind of the signature move of the Axis powers in WW2, much to their detriment...
Exactly. When he authorised Plan Z to make the navy on par with the British navy in case of a war with the UK, the Kriegsmarine told him they wouldn't be ready to challenge Britain until 1946. Hitler agreed to this. He didn't want war with Britian or France, and if a war was going to happen against them he thought it would be much further in the future. Same thing with the Soviets. It was a 10 year aggression pact for a reason. Even if you believe he intended to break it like he did in real life, or like did to Poland. He broke the Polish pact after 5 years, he broke the Soviet one in only 2 years, and there were reasons for that. The British blockade causing a fast decrease in oil and food (which not only they needed to fight the UK, but if they didn't attack the Soviets, then they'd be too low on resources to ever go for it), the poor soviet performance in findland, the British wanting to sway the Soviets to their side, the threat of the USA joining at some point and a need for resources in case that happened, the Soviets taking the piss in negotiations and the element of suprise because Stalin didn't expect Hitler to be stupid enough to attack before Britain's defeat
Yep, I just commented something similar. Germany was expecting more "appeasement" from Chamberlain.
@@MrWaterlionmonkeyand then japan getting to bold after Germany’s massive gains in the Soviet Union can be considered
@@julienvalley28 There are many reasons the Japanese joined when they did. One reason is the Japanese felt they could achieve their territorial aims, and they did for the first 6 months, because the colonial powers in Asia were distracted in Europe. The German gains in the soviet union had little to do with it though. In fact Japan had only 2 choices when it came to achieving self sufficience, invade south east asia or invade the soviet union with Germany. The japanese were in agreement that their country could not do both at once and had to pick either a war with the USSR OR a war with the USA and UK. Since Japan's defeat against the soviets in The Battles of Khalkhin Gol in 1939 and the German's failure to knock out the soviets before the winter, as well as American antagonism, they picked the latter. So it wasn't German success, but rather German failure that sealed Japan's fate and spared the USSR a two front war.
Hitler: Invades Poland
Mussolini: We’ve been tricked, we’ve been backstabbed, and we’ve been quite possibly bamboozled.
Japan Germany Italy: "let's all agree to help each other in several years"
Germany: "Let's do this Leroy Jenkins!!!" *goes early
Japan: "I bombed pearl harbor "
Italy: "what"
German Kriegsmarine to Italians: hmph...First time?
FOR THE EMPEROR!!
Death for the emperor is atonement
@@O-OO1-O HANZ! WHAT IN THE EMPERORS NAME AR YOU DOING IN THE FIRST MILLENNIUM?! ARE YOU DESERTING YOUR POST?!
🤣🤣🤣🤣 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
That Joke of the Kriegsmarine! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
You really think that barzelletta of a bunch of ships in the Atlantic was even close to be a decent force? 🤣🤣🤣🤣 I've seen jokes but this is the best.
"Germans good at sea war" BUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The next? "Americans with a brain"? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@O-OO1-O Roman Empire: Bestest is us.
German Celts: I'm about to end this man's whole career.
Imagine if Italy was given another three years to prepare for war.
It would have also given France three more years so probably wouldn't have been as advantageous for Germany
@@rickpgriffin with germany's recent expansion in Czechia and Austria yep the french could've convinced the Belgians to expand the Maginot line
Still wouldn’t be ready
But France wasn't exactly preparing for war before the war had already started anyway. Irl they have managed to prepare for the invasion during the Phoney war period, but the problem was not that their army was small or unequiped. The problem was it's outdated WW1 doctrine. Tanks were used only as infantry support, airplanes weren't used for ground support, the units werent supplied with radios and weren't mobile enough, they expected trench warfare once again, etc. If they were given 3 more years they wouldn't just start modernizing their army out of the blue, and even if they did it probably wouldn't have been enough time to really modernize.
And the Ardennes would probably still be left undefended.
They wouldn't be as pathetic, and I do believe they could have been a threat to Britain but yeah.
Also, everything else would have been more prepared. I don't think it would have affected much, but it wouldn't have made Italy into a burden of Germany.
To add to this, Count Ciano, Italy's foreign minister, was assured numerous times that war was years away.
„We do a little trolling“
The reason why Mussolini didn't want to start a war until 1942 was because Industrial Engineers had estimated it'd take until at least 1942 for Italy to have sufficient industrial capacity to challenge the western power - a fact they did inform the Germans of. As a result Italy went into the war woefully under equipped being one of the main reasons they performed so terribly other than corrupt and inexperienced commanders. So it's kinda actually Germany's fault the Italians sucked so much actually, as they started the war before their ally was ready. Just another example of how the axis powers were terrible at cooperation, which would make a good episode.
Fascists are like spiders or the Sith; they are incapable of solidarity or even practical cooperation.
I Agree with you completely! Germany Was actually the worse Axis member because they didn’t wait at all
@@Mr.Salmonismif italy knew they were so underequipped why attack greece and the british? They should have just stayed back and send troops to germany. Its not just being underequipped what made them suck so bad
@@PrvnCokethey attacked the British because they were told Sea Lion was imminent and France had fallen. Greece was to not be subdued and also because Germany broke agreements regarding the Balkans
Yes, it makes no sense for them to start Greece if they knew that @@PrvnCoke
Could someone honestly tell me what the Tactical advantage of tricking your ally into a state of anger is?
There really isnt one. He just forced Musolini's hand so that when shit hit the fan soon after Hitler had more meat, I mean uhhh, men to send into the meat grinder. Uhhh I mean the battle, yes the battle, not the meat grinder
None, Germany didn't expect the Allies to put their foot down for Poland either, they just threw their plans into action ad-hoc after Britain figured out Apeasment is BS....
well, let's say Mussolini promised NOT TO INVADE GREECE. Even though he allied with Germany with the promise of creating a new Roman Empire. Hitler was "DO NOT INVADE GREECE" and Mussolini was "Oh no" but he felt Italy could handle it on their own and invaded anyway. Germany was busy planning the invasion of the Soviet Union and did not have troops to send to Greece, but had to help Italy out. Don't ask about North Africa. Italy had Germany involed in so many fronts we all owe them a thank you for helping Germany lose the war.
@@NoFluChurchill was like: by gorge I sent him a life time of cigars and scotch how can he be so mad!
he obviously wnated to use italy as fodder weaken itatly too, he wanted world domination
Can you do a video on the different types of swords throughout history?
It would be like a 50 hours video bro
Even limiting our curved or straight blades would still need a herculean effort of research.
This feels like the prologue to a stand-alone movie. Everything makes sense now. The Italians weren’t incompetent, they were forced into war. That’s why Benny wasn’t a big fan of Hitler, that’s why they had so few resources. Their betrayal makes so much sense now. Oh my god
Not to mention, Mussolini’s dislike of Hitler’s ideology. in reality the axis were allies of necessity.
@@kerchoo.1609also telling your Ally that he is racially inferior to you isn't a smart idea either...
@@NoFlu well mussolini before the alliance said the he wouldn't ally with people that were huting hares naked while we where building civilization, the thought of the other being inferior was mutual
um, hello? The Italians weren't big fans of the Germany alliance. But Mussolini ignored German orders to NOT INVADE GREECE, as the Germans did not have the spare troops to help Italy. Mussolini promised and then did it anyway. So Germany is tied up in Greece (the Italians could not win Greece), and also North Africa. Mussolini was a huge fan of Scipio Africanus, and even had a movie made about the leaders life that kids had to watch in school. So he saw German alliance as a way to get a new Roman Empire. In the end, the Germans found becoming an ally with Italy helped them lose the war.
@@kittymervine6115 yeah they were both idiots, but Italy had the best luck (less deaths, less destruction, didn't got split in two)
Germany rushing headlong into something beyond the resources of itself and its allies. A recurring theme
If you mean WW1 Germany actually wanted to instantly declare war in Serbia or not at all. They only thought it okay as long as public opinion on their side. Then the kaiser went on vacation though and Austria dragged their feet only to then still declare war. Look it up the Kaiser was PISSED
Only if you count world war 2 only
@@Mr33500 also describes the first
@@CodaMission Nope. In WW1, Germany was basically just saying to its ally that they had their back.
@Mr33500 ....and in doing so, they overextended their position and got themselves into a two-front war. Left that out
Ah yes, catching your allies but surprise leaving them pissed off and unprepared. Truly a winning strategy.
So by the sound of it Italy was just trying to survive
Yep. But they wanted the same thing as Germany, but hitler wanted the backup and the southern flank covered without having to share too much of the spoils. It’s probably one of the reasons Franco kept Spain out of the whole mess.
@@robertaylor9218 true but Italy couldn't fight Germany at the time even though they prepared to in the beginning the Italians built a very large fortification in the north of Italy to protect itself from Germany but realized it wasn't going to work
@@jonathanmckeage8222 oh yeah. Germany would’ve rolled right over them. The panzer 2 could’ve steamrolled Italian armor. The Italian military doctrine, equipment, and organization was geared towards domination and genocide of peoples decades behind in warfare. They were basically the goa’uld from stargate. Easily able to dominate and murder people behind them in technology, but laughably outclassed by any power even resembling a peer.
All that said, until all of Italy was secured, Germany would be massively exposed. And based on terrain alone that might take an uncomfortably long time. Ad to that Germany would have to either refuse the alliance or would have to betray it directly, as they would have to take out Italy AFTER France. Any way you look at it, the math says no.
Yea so they invaded Greece just to survive...
@@robertaylor9218Moreso because Spain was in no condition to fight after the civil war.
Damage within the country was massive, both industrial and even more important (and tragic) damage to the population. Spain went through borderline starvation years past the civil war, combine that with the political instability and factionalism within the early years of Franco's regime, it makes a good reason not to get involved (except for warcrimes in the east)
Remember reading about the Italian high command telling their allies about the time they needed before a war started. So it really is Germanys fault that they had such a useless friend in that war.
The Italian high command said they'd be ready no earlier than 1943. Which is funny because that's when Italy surrendered
@@MrWaterlionmonkey "we will not be ready until 1943...ready to switch to the winner side lul #getrekt"
@giorgiociaravolol3642 except what you call switching sides was a brutal and bloody civil war, but yet let's laugh about it for the memes
well and Italy Army and Mussolini... Mussolini did not wait to invade Greece or start sniffing out Colonies on the North African front. Germany was "Wait you are supposed to be helping US, and instead you are making us send troops as you can't handle these invasions by yourself!" Hitler made Mussolini promise he would NOT INVADE ANYTHING, and Mussolini at this time was "Hey Hitler, you modeled yourself on ME, You aren't the boss of me!" Then it was "Opps we're losing in Greece, help!"
@@kittymervine6115germany was supposed to leave the balkans to italy, stop making that point without giving the full context
Mussolini: Well, we should be fine. Long as nobody sets off an attack too early.
Hitler: Question.
Mussolini: What's your question, Hitler?
@@hecksters423
Hitler: We attacked Poland.
Gotta respect Italy for keeping their word and went to battle
It's like when your best friend throws a bottle at the guy he doesn't like in the bar.
Italy: so let's recap the plan
Germany: LEEEEEEERRROOOOOY JENKIIIIINNSSS
Day 17 of asking you to talk about the bob semple tank
Another one of my countries stupid ideas 🤪
@@croonyerzoonyer
Brilliant*
@@croonyerzoonyer
Brilliant*
@@croonyerzoonyer Reply not at all. The idea was to keep you safe from Japanese attack. Japan never attacked NZ. I call that a success.
take the semple over a shitty tiger/panther any day
You should do a video about Greece trouncing the Italians.
And the conditions of the Greece people after their surrender. Shit was horrific and I didn't know for the longest time, was way more Eastern Front then Western, that's for sure
Hitler TOLD MUSSOLINI, DO NOT INVADE GREECE! Mussolini promised and did it anyway. Mainly as his own people were confused how German goals were their goals. But they could all agree on Greece. Then Germany had to come save them. Which hurst Germany. Did they want to be in North Africa and Greece, and Russia? Nope. But it sure helped stretch their supply lines.
My boy didn't even have time to select his loadout and got fucked up by the allies.
Germany: READY UP ALREADY
Italy: IM STILL MAKING MY LOADOUT
Japan: Screw it, just click start
Japan had super low ping as they'd already started 2 years beforehand
Germany: *kicks in Italy's door* get up
Italy: *still half asleep* What?
Germany: we're going to war, right now
Italy: now?
Germany: Right. Now.
Japan did the same
Which is stupid. Why not let your ally prepare for war precisely? Italy was expecting the war, they were okay with it. Don't give them 3 years less to prepare. I can't see the point of this. I can imagine Italy getting back at Germany and Germany like "It was just a prank bro!"
If you tell them, they might talk you out of it
“It’s easier to ask for forgiveness then permission”
@@dabidibup but they were already on board with it. They just would've prepared accordingly to the timeframe.
3 extra years for Italy would also be 3 extra years to France and Britain, 3 extra years being at mercy of Stalin for economic production. Also, Nazis prepared for war against Poland, not against France and UK because the expectation was they would give Poland the same treatment as Czechoslovakia
If Italy was ready so would the Allie’s be ready. That also applies to neutral countries like Poland. Germany had a tank program broken up into components since the Weimar Republic. Italy would have had a lot of things caught up, but they would still be outpaced by the allies. Worse Germany would’ve lost the edge it had carefully built up by then. No way they could’ve kept their tanks and weapons secret that long.
The blitz may or may not have failed, the invasion of France may or may not have succeeded. Dunkirk probably wouldn’t have had to be evacuated. The Soviet Union would’ve either quietly joined the axis. Either way it would’ve rebuilt from the purge and re-professionalized their army.
I didn't criticise the moment of the attack, I criticise not letting your ally know in advance when you plan to do things and instead lie to them making them think they have more time. That's the stupid part. Although it might be true that they didn't expect WW2 to trigger so soon, I doubt that, they knew full well that Poland wouldn't submit and that the allies would have to intervene, they had been preparing for that and they had been waiting for the Spanish Civil War to end.
In any case, if they where to postpone the attack:
The Soviets were attacked afterwards anyway, and they got better by fighting the Germans, out of necessity.
Germany and Italy were militarizing way faster than the allies could, meaning more time is better for them.
As an italian, i like to think that we were so bad in WWII that we slowed down the naxis.
Not really Italian air support we’re one of the only reasons Rommel lasted as long as he did in the desert the Italian pilots outclassed the allied pilots in the desert for a long time and kept massive amounts of air supplies coming in as well as hindered British naval movements heavily in the Mediterranean
Also during the American invasion of Italy despite a lot of rebellion and insurrection and such Italian soldiers put up a hell of a fight in Italy even tho they were “commandeered” by the Germans
The only true blot in Italys ww2 performance that didn’t directly stem from their really really shitty wartime industry’s (lack of heavy motors and absolutely pieces of shit tanks) was their pathetic front against France in the alps sure a lot of French were killed and the Italians kept some very good units contained but for how many men died on both sides there was remarkably little territory gained by the Italians it really was quite pathetic
No, no no no. Italy were the bad guys just like Germany. Fascist Italy doesn’t get any credit for the Axis Powers losing.
I get it, you were on our side the whole time. Ethiopia and Greece were just covers to keep you from tipping your hand.
@@Snipergoat1ask the Indians what they think of Churchill
please know that all history shows that the Italian Army and the citizens of Italy were so confused about WHY they were allies of Germany. Mussolini was the reason why. Hitler based his own campaign to rule on Mussolini and admired him greatly. Mussolini was flattered and joined up with Germany while the rest of the nation was "Wait, WHY are we doing this? WE're not ready and the goals of Germany are not our goals!" The Italians were not bad, but they were also not motivated as there was nothing in it for them. That's one reason Mussolini invaded Greece, so he could show Hitler how great the Italian Army was... and then Hitler had to send Germans to help out. Thank you Italy, as everyone else understood this was a dumb alliance, and especially in North Africa, Italian prisoners of war were very nice and polite. The germans were grumpy, but the Italians were well liked by the British and Americans.
Hitler literally went "we do a little trollin"
I also heard the German military had no idea the war was starting so soon.
Pretty much. Most thought they had until the Benelux before Britain and France would actually step to the plate.
The fact that Germany didn't share their plans completly was something they kept up for the rest of the war, inter-axis communication was pisspoor overall...
"our enemies can't know what we are doing I'd we don't know what we are doing!"
I mean yes this is true to an extent, but it's also important to note that Hitler didn't believe France and the UK would actually back Poland and start WW2 in 1939. He didn't manipulate Italy to join from a surprise invasion because he didn't think that would start the war, at least until the UK and France had more time to re-arm. Also Italy didn't join until 11 months after Hitler invaded Poland, they had plenty of time to prepare and Mussolini declared war in June 1940 when France was already doomed so he had a seat at the peace table.
Germany:
*> Yes, let's get this war started*
> Give us 10 turns to prepare
Italy: 👁👄👁
It's like receiving a phone call from your professor telling you that he has moved the exam from next month to tomorrow morning.
And Italy still produced some good naval power and very good aircraft
Tanks were Italy’s shortcoming but an armored vehicle with a seizable gun usually works(Italy was also close to getting rights to produce Panther tanks but 1943 called)
If you arnt ready for a war, don’t be surprised that you do bad
Our planes were also a problem, actually.
We could produce very good engines, but it was mostly single pieces, impossible or at least very hard to manufacture in large quantities while keeping the same quality.
In short, we weren't ready at all
There is actually a great book about this which deals with Italy's entry into the war seen from the prospective of the Italian Merchant Marine which had I think upwards of 60% of it's ships outside of the Mediterranean when the war started and many were unable to sail to friendly ports (I.e. Japan or Thailand) and being forced to go into mostly neutral ports and being effectively interned there because they could not make it back to the Mediterranean, which in turn severely hampered Itlian Operations in North Africa as well as Italy's ability to make use of her newly conquered lands
name of the book?
"A deal was a deal." That's what Stalin thought
Also Mussolini invented this state that in Italian is called "non belligeranza" that basically means they supported Germany but didn't join the war (until the french where basically dead)
Day 19 of asking stakuyi to cover sgt stubby
This soon is getting a meme xD
@@midosch7639 I will not stop until I get him talk about sgt stubby
@@midosch7639 But man that dog is interesting.
Bro this changes my whole view on Italy, I always thought they were trash but this is proof they could’ve been good if Austrian painter wasn’t trigger happy.
With friends like that who needs enemies. .
ya think hitler was kicking himself when they had to spend resources to help italy as the italtians couldnt take or hold ground??
Italy was depleted from the Spanish civil war and African wars they were competent enough to win there but they just couldn’t keep up
@@kingt0295Yeah and Hitler decided to screw over Italy without letting his most important ally be prepared which screwed himself over.
"With friends like that who needs enemies"
Are you talking about Germans? The one who started entire wars without telling their allies?
The best part? Having to help italy SO MUCH in northern africa and greece was one of the key factors that kept them from being able to beat the soviets (or, more likely, just lose less quickly)
Bro I kinda feel bad for Mussolini bro really got betrayed 💀💀💀
Yup and was dealt by his own people 😢
And this is why Hitler could defeat Batman.
"Hey Bats, you have prep time. . . Psyche"
The Italians should have added a clause to the pact that limited the offensive obligations until 1943.
Germany would have been better off if they had told Italy "That's ok, stay out of this.".
And then Germany got pissed when Japan pulled the same thing
Hitler wasn't pissed when the Japanese attacked the USA. He was happy because he believed together they could beat them. Also the treaty he had with the Japanese was only a defensive one. It said if Germany or Japan were attacked by a nation they weren't currently at war with (it meant the USA) then the other party had to declare war. Japan was not attacked, it did the attacking, and yet Hitler declared war, even though he didn't have to.
Japan attacked America
Hitler wasn’t bound to declare war
Don't forget that Italy even if they weren't well prepared still tried to make an empire, they weren't forced to attack all of their targets.
Yes, but that was mostly Mussolini's ambitions, Italian High Command repeatedly warned him they were not ready before Greece and Egypt, Mussolini just sacked the ones who told him the truth and put yes men in their place with obvious results
Do a video on the TNCA Salinas please
Italy only joined when they knew Germany would overrun France. They did not join before that.
It would be absolutely beautiful to see something on any Medieval Serbian History!
Another thing to add is that the Italian army needed to upgrade and restock their equipment, and to train more troops because the ones they had were either tired from fighting other wars (like the Spanish one) or actively trying to keep under control the colonies, especially Ethiopia, which Italy had just "captured" (well, it lasted very briefly and the Ethiopians were still fighting for independence. The major cities had been captured, tho).
Italy really should have just not returned Germans phone call
You’re telling me Adolf went full LEERRROOYYY JEEEENNNKINNNSS with Italy.
Stayuki can you do a basic summary on how almost all the problems the nazis had can be traced back to hitler during World War Two?
EDIT: for clarity, the problems the nazis had during wwii being traced back to hitler.
You mean like how Hitler was a control freak who tried to do all of the planning himself?
Their major success, the conquest of France, can also be traced back to him.
Though blaming the Nazi defeat on hitler is stupid. German high command got cocky after the early war and thought Barbarossa was gonna be simple and quick. Most of them knew it would end up being attrition hell but almost all of them thought by the time winter set it, moscow would be fallen. When the war went south for them, they made shit up to look good in front of the winners.
“Oh hitler was the sole reason we failed”
“Oh the Soviets had the most OP weapons (but we still had the 2nd most totally 100% (both claims are dubious at best and false at worse))
“Oh the Wehrmacht didn’t do all of these war crimes we were honorable (blatantly false)”
Yeah that's a myth. Pretty much every mistake german high command did they later retconned to be Hitlers fault. Hitler was against operation Citadel and told them as much but let them continue with the plan against his best wishes (for an easy example) It's just that when Franz Holder and friends got to tell their stories post war, Hitler and most of his close confidants weren't really around to call out the bullshit.
@@Linesweeper they also put tanks like the t-34 up on a high pedestal, even though they were mediocre at best. the russians knew it was good propoganda so they just rolled with it
This is also one of the reasons the italian miltary preformed so poorly. They were going through a massive expansion and reorganization program when the war began, and were caught with their pants down. According to a military history visualized video I watched a while back the Italians had around 30% of the artillery they needed in 1939, along with a shortage of NCOs and officers.
Thank you for making this, this is another step of dispelling the common myth about Italy during the war and provide much needed context for those who simply rely on memes about it for info.
Ciano met Ribbentrop and he told him that Germany was invading Poland and plus they were sure the allies wouldn't intervene
Wait! An Italian kept up their end of a deal? Impossible
Mussolini was also afraid that if he didn't get involved Germany would dominate the Balkans as well, which Mussolini thought of as his backyard. He was also getting jealous of Hitler's succeses, and with the defeat of Poland, Denmark, Norway, Belgium, the low countries and France, he believed he needed to get involved before the war finished so he could be there at the victors table and get territory.
And he thought he'd use the opportunity in the war of creating "nova roma" his dream of conquering a Mediterranean- African empire and turning the Mediterranean Sea into "an Italian lake"
You got it wrong that’s the French and Germans violating treaties
Pfft, Italians don't keep deals, that requires a frontal cortex lol
Italians aren't English...
Italy is like an avarage guy in a minecraft server whose friend with a speedrunner
Friendly reminders that this is how millions die, from old men behind closed doors going “No Backsies”
What also isn't known is Italy was in frantic secret negotiations with the allies promising not to invade France if the allies gave them concessions. Mussolini was actually fairly well liked in Europe, and many, including former US presidents admired him for how he manged to reform Italy from its mob run state if the early 1920s to a modern nation by 1940s standards.
Mussolini really deserves his own TV show/ documentary, and needs to not always get lumped into Hitler's lot. They were pretty distinct from each other.
Edit: Grammer
Ok, but I have to ask why?
It seems like shooting yourself in the foot if you leave your ally under prepared for a massive war.
Like you're expecting to lose with a decision like that.
Maybe to keep Italian bargaining to a minimum? Germany saying ‘I contributed most, therefore I get all the spoils’, or maybe it was so weaken Italy. Making Italy fight on the back foot from the start could have left them in a vulnerable position on the continent if Germany had won.
I kinda doubt German expansion would have ended if they had won the war. I believe they’d have to keep expanding.
Hitler did not expect the invasion of Poland to trigger a world war
@@MrWaterlionmonkey fact
when your best friend does something bad in school and you are also getting detention:
If Mr.Painter hadn't gotten into drugs Europe was his to command
Only got on drugs in the latter half of the war, and then not even "real drugs" until it was more or less over.
He basically took vitamins and medication helping his dumbass vegetarian diet starting from the mid 30s, that got worse with the stress of war and he took, what basically amounts to steroids and stomach cramp medication in 41/42, got onto that hard shit, meaning comon (for the time) opiod pain medication in late 43, which he kept up around mid-44, because then the allies bombed all the factories producing it...
Wrong, it was a lost cause from the start
@@theskiypdeeif he never tried to go for Poland and instead built up its resources and Allies it definitely wasn’t a sure outcome, especially when you consider how good the Germans did even when they industrially couldn’t compete with the Allies.
@@keeshans5768 but that never would have happened. Hilter was insane. He wanted eastern europe for himself
@@theskiypdee it came very close to happening. You shouldn't underestimate a nations potential offense just because the figurehead is 'crazy'.. you should do the opposite. We literally had to align ourselves with fucking STALIN and create the atom bomb to make sure we won. There are no sane leaders, just people with bigger bombs and more money.
Plot twist Alternate Universe: Italy has WW1 flashbacks, bathes in the Isonzo, then invades Germany with the power of the pointlessly dead.
So then wait, why'd they ally the Italians in the first place if they were going to backstab them?
It’s like a college friend saying “Can’t handle your -liquor- war, bro!”
And you telling them “I wanted to watch LotR” while puking
To cover the flank and provide support. They started the race while Italy was still in the shower to minimize having to share the spoils, influence, and glory. Maybe hitler would’ve been better off betraying Mussolini instead of Stalin, but surrendering the Mediterranean to the Allies without a fight was probably not a pleasant prospect.
Besides hitler wasn’t looking to have every country as a province of Germany, he wanted every country subservient to Germany. An ally who knows he’s a (very) distant second is close enough.
@@robertaylor9218 lol, no, Mussolini and Hitler were homies. Hitler not only copied Mussolini’s rise to Fascist control of Italy, he was basically a creepy fanboy of Mussolini. Hitler even made a weird scrapbook of all the times he and Mussolini went to each other’s capitols and had military parades for each other, which was taken as spoils when Americans captured Eagle Nest.
Hitler went so far as to send in the Nazi equivalent of Seal Team 6 to rescue Mussolini from the Allies and re-establish him in Northern Italy. At this point, Mussolini was Just Done(tm), and Hitler viewed it as a huge betrayal. Which is probably why Italian pows were treated so horrifically by the Nazis, about on par with how Soviet pows were treated.
But no, Hitler was not doing some big tactical thing in allying with Fascist Italy. Italian Fascism was a beta form of Nazism, and Hitler admired Mussolini. Hitler had no such admiration for Lenin and/or Stalin and hated communism (Nazis were fighting Communists in the streets of Germany long before WWII was ever a gleam in Hitler’s crazy eyes). The Nazi-Communist pact was a farce Hitler always intended to betray. He just stepped up his plans when he saw an “overwhelming” Soviet force get curbstomped by the Finns in the Winter War.
Sure, as the war stretched on Hitler got more and more frustrated with Mussolini, but that was because Mussolini didn’t exactly have the same “zeal” for wwii as he did, and he was constantly having to bail Mussolini out. Both problems probably sourced back to the point of the video, though, so kind of a self-created problem there…
@@StarWarsomania if the alliance was so genuine and not at all a strategic play, why did hitler make damned sure the Italians didn’t know about Poland? He yelled at his generals that “they’d better not find out about our plans!”, who responded with “the allies?” “NO the Italians!”.
I know that they were pretty close, but it seems pretty clear the alliance was a strategic one, which hitler trusted because they were ideologically aligned. He knew he couldn’t trust the soviets, though the rest of the reich seemed pretty eager to do so. Hell, he only allied with the Japanese so he could take Russia, as the obvious ally in the east for Germany was China.
I don’t mean to come across as hostile. I just don’t think that sentiment was the primary reason, though I will concede that it was likely an important one.
I mean, even Hitler didn’t expect France and Britain to go to war over Poland, so
hAhAhAhaHaA ItAlY wAs USelESs iN WwII
Yeah
Mussolini himself told Hitler that Italy wouldn't be ready for a major war until atleast 1941-42. The Axis powers major downfall was the lack of coordination between their members as apposed to the allies who could coordinate an attack on Germany wherever they were weakest such as the Soviets launching operation bagration and the allies launching D Day.
Another reason I’m proud to be greek
Lol. Yeah the Greeks beat the dogs-shit out of the Italians.
Germany beat you in 42 days, very proud moment
@@jabbayt7271 Greece was never going to be able to hold off Germany. That they held off the Italians is largely the Italians’ fault. They rushed the plans and prep and half-assed the affair. Little surprise Germany was able to sweep in after Italy softened them up.
@@jabbayt7271 okay, so? the fact a country like Greece held for almost as long as a superpower like France, lasted longer than Denmark, and messed up the Italians morale as much as they did; allows them to get a little bit of credit. they weren't going to war with a weak nation. it was a nation allied to one of the strongest powers at the time, which was only rivaled by the soviets and the USA.
Wow, that adds some interesting context then to later in the war when Italy went "rogue" and Hitler was pissed about it. Turnabout is fair play, I suppose.
It's kinda like "You got this project next year so prepare" then "Surprise, your assigned partner just asked to start it early so better hurry"
And this is one of the many reasons why Italy fell so fast in WWII.
The Pact of Steel sounds like something straight out of warhammer 😂
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You could also say Hitler also thought that Britain (if not even France) would not have intervened in favor of Poland, just like it didn’t with Czechoslovakia and Austria (which, fun fact, Italy also swore to protect Austria against Germany together with France and Britain).
The Brits during ww2 made a 86 ton tank called the TOG because they thought ww2 would be like ww1, now it's stuck in a museum that if ever moved out, would crack the floor beneath it
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Hitler also freaked Mussolini out when they first met
Even Hitler wanted start the war later! He didn’t think the allied would start over Poland a dictatorship at the time, since they wouldn’t start it over Europe’s oldest true democracy Czechoslovakia.
Italy had many issues with its military. During a meeting in 1939 it was the secretary of treasury who mentioned the poor weapons manufacturing when compared to modern countries, the secretary of defense of course was pissed while Mussolini was also angry he also saw this as an opportunity to expand military spending and future military operations into countries such Albania and Greece. The Italians knew a war was coming but they never expected the British Empire to be part of it, warmonger Churchill however was all over the idea.
This is like one of those movies where people don't read all the terms to something and later find out one of the terms was something messed up
To be fair, many in Germany didn't think war would come until about mid 1940s as well. The war starting in 1939 took almost every country by surprise.
Fun fact: He didn’t move the camera at all while recording this, instead he moved the position of the camera (in the editing software) and flipped it after every transition
When you're trying to customize your class and the lobby starts giving you 15 seconds
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Not sure i agree here Stat. Italy was a Member of the Triple Alliance in WW1 but broke it when Austro Hungry and Imperial Germany declared a World War but they opted out because they were not consulted beforehand. They could have done the same in WW2 but Mussolini had big dreams.
It should also be noted that Italy was under the impression when they joined against France in the final days that the war would be over once France fell. Britain was mediating peace talks with Italy and Mussolini was certain that Britain was going to surrender. Mussolini was by no means an idiot, the dude ruled Italy for 20+ years and many of his industrial and agricultural reforms were tremendous in transforming Italy. It’s sad that he was suckered into an alliance with Hitler .
So you arent going to mention the invasion of Ethiopia by Italy in 35? Italy was complicit and flipped last minute. The Chinese and Japanese were already at war before the invasion of Poland by Germany in 39 as well. The world was actually at war long before 39, things are just portrayed like they started over night.
Fun fact: when the war started, Italy asked for a very long list of stuff required for them to build weapons, tanks, bullets... The list was so long and full of precious materials that it would have needed years for Germany to find and ship all of that to Italy. The list is called "molibdeno's list"
Musolini could have just not declared war because when they did Adolf was angry, especially with the Greece war