Tankless VS Tank Water Heater...3 Myths DEBUNKED! - Twin Plumbing
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I have a tankless water heater and I love it. It is true, you dont have instant hot water, but once you have hot water you have endless hot water. No more worrying about people using up all the hot water.
if the unit heats 3 gallons per minute, that's what you get... if the demand - even short-term - is more, something's gotta give...
@@patklemmensen1694 that's true, but you also scale to your normal use. The regeneration time you need in a tank also makes a big difference.
Most domestic tankless heaters are at least 6gpm. I have a big Navien, I have had a routine service once in 9 years, and it runs perfectly.
I did dual tankless (they have a cable that they talk to each other through so only 1 is used unless the second is needed) and I've never hit a high enough demand to turn on the second tankless. I guess at least I have an automatic backup if one dies. That said, I need to replace my whole home water pressure regulator as if you run more than a couple of showers at a time you run out of pressure, so if I get my pressure issue resolved it might be enough load to trigger the second. I believe mine are 9GPM.
@@lynbartram3491 you voided your warranty by not getting maintained yearly. Good job.
Don’t let this video scare you! While this info may be correct, there’s no beating a tankless water heater. Especially for large families. If anyone’s on the fence, don’t be. Tankless water heaters are Lifechangers. I have installed many of these and I’ve never had a single complaint. Everyone loves them. While it may not be instant hot water it is continuous hot water for as long as you need it. I have a family of five and we used to get mad at each other for running out all the hot water. That conversation ended 10 years ago when we installed our tankless. While there may be a little maintenance, it’s very minimal.
Yes absolutely, I would never install a tank system ever again, don't know why they sell them
and this is the biggest factor for going tankless... a never ending supply of hotwater, so 3, 4, 5 showers in a row NO PROBLEM!
Even going back for servicing units, I've never heard a single complaint. Tankless is well worth the extra couple hundred bucks depending on the wh, cheaper to do tankless now than a direct vent .
I'm agree with you. I like a more tankless heater, but only if I can change water temperature outside of the heater
Yep, thats the best reason, never run out of hot water. Just filling up the Jacuzzi tub in our bath took all the hot water for just one person.
I currently have a NAVIEN 240A. Depending on how it’s installed, this unit has built in recirculating pump. Can have almost instant at the fixture on demand or during peak times. Can also install pumps on various other units. Trick to being happy with your tankless is find a plumber that likes tankless and do your homework. Several family members have units that I installed and all are happy. The maintenance is actually easier than that recommended by tank manufacturers. Choose what’s best for your situation and don’t worry too much.
Heat loss only matters during the non net heating portion of year, 3 to 4 months in northernly latitudes. I have had a dedicated kwh meter on my tank, parasitic loss is about 1.7 kwh/d, the $8 a month number is about right. Instant? I have noted that when visiting friends homes with tankless, it takes even a few seconds longer before you get truly hot tap water as the system has to switch on and heat up some tubing. Most people would probable stick with tanks.
Went with tankless on my recent house I built. Didn't concern myself too much with the additional cost for install. I did it because I have a family of 5 and it was impossible for all of us to have a hot shower at night. In my opinion it was the best choice I made
This is a perfect example of why tankless is a great investment. Thank you for sharing this great information. This will certainly help people like yourself make a better decision.
Any issues or things you'd done differently?
@@shanew7361 none at all. I've had it for 7 years now and wouldn't change a thing
2 story or 1floor?
@@franklinmobley25 2 story. 2 full baths downstairs and 1 upstairs
Tankless Bosch was a disaster for me in rural Montana. First problem was that I needed to upsize my flue a lot to meet installation specs. That let in lots of cold air in subzero temps which eventually froze the innards and caused a huge leak. Luckily it happened just as we got home from skiing and I was able to save the house. We also found that these were never really made for really cold well water. It just takes too long to heat vs some southern California installation. It would heat it up, but it took forever to get the hot water started at the bathtub level. This also caused a huge added load of cold water into our septic system. Good for city slickers in warm climates with tepid water systems. Not good for us.I was SO happy to get rid of the thing and go back to a conventional water heater.
I live in rural PA with cold winters, and my tankless works just fine. Much better than the tank heater in fact.
@@michaelburbank2276 Well if you want another one it’s out under a tree in my yard waiting to go to the recyclers. You can come pick it up if you’re in the Bitterroot. It’s a Bosch. The existing plumbing lines where it was installed were less than optimally routed. That caused at least some of the large delay I discovered and fixed that in a recent remodel. But I bought two electrics without even considering a tankless. There were also other issues to consider in our home with drafting and the creation of negative pressures caused by the huge flu required for the propane flames and how they reacted with our wood stoves. Never again for me. Hope you do better.
We have both systems and we are on a well with a whole house generator. Our tank unit is a A.O. Smith (75 gallon ) and we have two Noritz tankless. Both systems have served us well but our water is highly processed. The conventional tank is used in our 4,500 square-foot home and the two tankless units are used in our detached 2,500 sf garage with guest quarters. One tankless is used for potable water and the other is used for a radiant heated floor with a glycol mix on a closed loop system. Both system are supplied from a 600 gallon whole house reverse osmosis system along with a Kinetico softeners, iron tanks to remove iron, calcite tank to manage PH along with a multi-stage filtration system, and chlorinator. Hands down I prefer the A.O. Smith! First and foremost, water quality is everything to a tankless water heater. The tankless are fine but are slow to heat. There is more maintenance with a tankless and they are far more costly to repair and/or replace. Our A.O. Smith is 16 years old and it still going strong, likely due to the reverse osmosis and having a neutral pH. Tankless water heaters are far less forgiving on water quality and can be temperamental if you don't have clean regulated voltage. Power surges can wreak havoc on them. Loose power, no hot water. Warranties mean very little and you will jump through many hoops in trying to make a claim. They definitely have their place and they work well in our situation. One last thing, tankless water heaters can leak as well. Hope it helps.
Replaced a gas-fired tank heater with a Bosch tankless for our small home and we love it. Brand new in the box, I found it on craigs list for $750; another $40 to install myself. Absolutely love it in our two-person home. We use about 60 gallons of propane per year to heat our water and run our stove/oven. I would never go back to a tank heater again.
Our Navien tankless has worked perfectly for 5 years. We have saved on energy bills and and it has been worth it. Not having a tank to worry about how long before it starts to leak and needs to be replaced. This happened to us twice and both times in bad weather on a holiday! The tankless installation was done well and we also gained space in the closet the tank took. The only maintenance needed is a once a year vinegar flush. We have a water softener so we have much less sediment than usual.
Tankless outside. I do not care about delay or operating cost. My family of five now never run out of hot water. Tank heater flooded my downstairs when it prematurely ruptured. I also gained the space from the hot water heater closet to add to my master suite. Win-Win!!
Lier..cold water at my sink and tub wastes over 10 gallons a day for shower only..forget taking a tub..unless a very short distance and a recirculating pump added.. it wastes a hell of a lot of water... they are crap...I want my tanked back..I miss tubbing
@@petero2693 *liar
also who the hell calls it tubbing?!
@@petero2693 Tubbing?
@@petero2693 You've either got a bad heater or it's installed wrong, we've been using tankless water heaters in the UK since the 70s, never had a an issue except during a power outage, besides instead of calling some one a lier or LIAR just because they've got different results than you how about asking what brand they are using, or whether it's gas or electric, do they use a whole house or point of contact, how far from the first outlet is the heater, all things that can effect the efficiency of any heating system.
“Mom where’s dad?”
“Oh, he’s tubbing right now honey “
I think the idea that you get instant hot water from a tankless got started because awhile back tankless heaters were typically under counter units at the point of use, so they did provide hot water quicker than a whole house unit.
Exactly correct.......
Use a recirculating valve or a buy a tankless that has one built-in. You can most certainly have instant hot water if you install the correct equipment.
@@Balticblue93 I chose not to get the recirculating feature on my Navien heater. I personally just don't see it as an issue. My home is relatively small so maybe it's not as noticeable to me. But I would rather let the water that's been sitting in the lines evacuate before washing or drinking anyway.
@@accidental_relevance That is fair, my first house did not have a recirculating valve and it didn't bother me either. It took exactly 59 seconds to have FULL temp water in the farthest faucet. But once I tried the recirculation valve at a friends house, I immediately installed one. I think my next system will for sure be a Navien instead of a Rinnai or Rheem (even though I love both and have owned both, currently a Rinnai). I can understand your concern about the water, but remember it is being recirculating, so it is just sitting there. I am not talking you into it, just saying. But I also have mostly PEX, a full home house filter, a scale filter and water softener. Plus my LG refrigerator has a filter, so my drinking water is nearly perfect based on the two tests I have had done. Nice talking to you!
This is what isn't mentioned. Some people do install both points of access and tankless for instant hot water that is endless until you run out of propane. There are large electric on demand water heaters that are very good as well.
We built our house about 11 years ago. We put in a tankless water heater at the time. It's been great. We have 3 bathrooms and all can use the shower at the same time. I've done the required maintenance and have soft water, both important. We had tank heaters before and like this so much better.
What gpm tankless did you get??
Fiirst, thank you guys for something besides sales BS. I retired from the plumbing trade at the end of '19 after forty-six years in the trade in NC. Thirty-two of those years I owned my residential/commercial plumbing, water/sewer utilities company. Every word you said is accurate. Like anything, there are people that love and swear by their tankless heater. There are also those that buy a pre-owned house and have the tankless removed and a tank type installed. For what it is worth, when customers would ask my opinion regarding the two designs I have told every one of them that if someone gave me three tankless heaters for personal use, I would still pay for a tank type heater. Just one plumber's opinion. 🤔🇺🇲
To avoid waiting for hot water and preventing the cold water sandwich, I have a tankless hot water heater that feeds a small (7 gal) electric water heater. There is marginal standby loss and because the water is already heated by the tankless, the cost to operate has actually been less than running a recirc pump. It's worked great, especially with 6 people taking showers in the morning. The setup is also used for in floor radiant heat - it's an open loop system and we haven't had any issues heating the house and taking showers, even when it's -10 out. An added advantage is the system is designed to pull heat out of the floors during the summer whenever we use hot water!
JB I kind of get what you're saying but can you give more specifics? I'm shopping for a new heater and like the sound of what you're saying. Thanks
@@bdyt Not sure what more specifics you're looking for... It's an open loop system with 2 zones. I use a Takagi water heater with 3 Armstrong pumps running the primary loop and secondaries. The hot water makeup runs through the radiant loops for a bunch of reasons and feeds a 7 gal electric water heater through a mixing valve. Radiantec has a bunch of examples of an open loop system that could answer your questions - my system is much different but the same in principle.
@@JB-nf8nk thanks for the reply. Will check it out
I thought about doing this myself, but I just realized I didn't care about waiting 30 seconds for hot water. Glad to hear my idea would have worked though :-)
Brilliant
I have a tankless water heater and love it. I will say one main advantage of a tank water heater with a battery igniter is when the power goes out (no generator) and you're on city water, you still have hot water. Found that out during Hurricane Sandy before I went tankless. We were out of power for 9 days but I still had hot water for bathing. Now I'm tankless and have a Generac natural gas generator so no worries now.
I installed two tankless heaters in my house, one for guests and one for the master and kitchen. I also installed a small water (6 gal) heater under the kitchen sink area and one under the master bathroom sink area. We have instant hot water. We don't have the re-circulator pump running all the time to keep hot water readily available. I once had a house with the re-circulator pump and noticed it was always running. The plumbing was run in the slab of this home. I notice warm spots on the floor when walking over it barefoot. When I put a timer on the re-circulator pump to only run when we took showers in the evening or when we first got up in the morning it cut my electric bill by $70/month. The problem with the hot water lines is they don't insulate them and heat loss runs the bills up.
Swapped out water heaters for tankless and never looked back. Have had them over 12 years with no problems, soft water here.
Hi Deck! This is the first place I've seen my issue and I'm excited about your solution. We bought a 1965 home and replaced the tank with a tankless in the first month not realizing that plumbing was wonky and takes a long time to get warm water...master bathroom sink will need to run several minutes to get warm water. They installed the recirc at that sink but to run it it's quite loud and also makes the pipes in the house clang a bit so I never recirc and just wait. Interested in what you did exactly?
@@amyskis I installed a small electric tank near the sink in the master bathroom. This gives almost instant hot water to the sink. For showers the water can run slightly longer and provide a steady supply of hat water. When I had a recirculator it ran constantly, shutting it off saved $70/ month in electricity.
In 2021 replaced my 50 gal tank with recirc to a Navien Tankless with built in recirc. Been very happy with it. There was not too much involved in the switch over. Already had a water softener which is recommended with a tankless system. Navien is a premium product so expect to pay a little more for quality and reliability.
Navien's are trash. Look for the oily residue and leaking from the heat exchanger.
Go TANKLESS! I’ve had one for 12 years, no problems, just endless hot water and no expense when not running! Those big tanks are a flood waiting to happen, I’ve seen it and those I know have gone TANKLESS and love em!
My Bradford White 50-gallon came with the house that I purchased in Dec93, believe it or not, I didn't know its brand until I found it got leaking problem recently (it got safety drain pan so no damaged) .
I live in a 1 bedroom condo - replaced a failed water heater with a rheem tankless - 169.00 a 110 no less so that the old water heater electric would work (the wire size used on old water tank was enough for 110 v and amp requirements but not for 220 v on a larger tankless). I also live in florida so didnt need a giant rise and I would never change its been running flawlessly for over 7 years now, my power bill was massively less due to the old water heater being in such bad shape. these guys are making assumptions that are pretty broad. do the math and check you needs. but i wont have another tank heater if i can help it.
I had a tankless installed at my old house in 2017 for about $1400 (even though it had to be completely relocated from where the old one was). Also, they left out the part where they're supposed to last about 25 years vs 6 years for a tank water heater. Me thinks this is clickbait bullshit.
Our tankless has been a nightmare 😢
@@patriciacarranza4550 would care to elaborate?
Your video was great and informative and I agree with everything you mentioned. I am a licensed Refrigeration Mechanic and Heating Technician in Toronto Canada for 20 years. I also am Nate certified in the USA as I used to work for Lennox Canada. There are positive and negatives for both tank and tankless, but I will never go back to a tank after installing my Rinnai tankless. It is quiet, small/out of the way, I can get endless hot water after the initial delay, but most important, it delivers clean water. The amount of bacteria and calcium that builds up in a tank is incredible, especially bacteria if a tank is set to low. Tankless units MUST be maintained yearly and have a higher repair/maintenance cost associated with them due to the complexity and amount of components. Tanks also require maintenance, but are always overlooked. They should also be flushed yearly and T&P should be manually opened and closed to prevent calcium build up. I know are aware that tanks also require maintenance, you just left it out of your video. Maintenance/repairs/installation are a fraction for me compared to a homeowner, but my Rinnai has been running problem free for 11 years now. Companies I have worked for installed all tankless brands and I would ONLY recommend Rinnai. Great video.
very insightful comment, thank you 🙏
Very helpful for me bro I'm from Toronto North and I have an old farm I need to switch to tankless
Thank you
Any particular Rinnai models that have been super reliable?
Thank you for clearing up these myths and helping me make an informed decision.
Thank you
5 years ago went from electric hot water heater and oil boiler to gas tank less water heater for both. Went from 4200.00 to just under 1000.00 a year. Great saving but few hassles when it comes to hot water. But still very happy with it. Your video showed me some stuff I didn't know. We are on well water. Going to install filter. Thanks
I have had an electric tankless for 11 years now fed by well water and no filter. No problems.
Been reading that if you do run into a problem caused by hard water the manufacturer won't honor the warranty. You might want to check into that.
I have an electric tankless titan brand. Takes it a min to get the water to the fixture but when its hot your not running out. I love it.
And if you tub its ice cold water 15 minutes later..
@@petero2693 7 gallon/min. Can run a tub all day long. Run both showers at the same time.
*you’re
@@petero2693 So water that was heated by a tankless loses it's heat faster than water that was heated by a tank??
@@thepianist7084 , it seems like it cools down in the pipes faster at least. Just got a tankless & it seems to cool faster between uses and takes almost twice as long for hot water to arrive. Great for showers but I think I miss my tank for washing dishes. I don't know, at least in our house it was not a 1 for 1 trade off like I thought. I liked my 65g tank better since we have small family & never ran out of hot water to begin with but because of regulation change or something we could only replace with 50g which would make jacuzzi tub pointless. If the bills are lower, I will like it better.
I love my tankless water heater. It does take a little longer to get hot water, but it literally never runs out. It takes up practically 0 space, is stupid easy to install by yourself. I paid $1000 dollars for my rinnai, the comparable tank was $700. I did an interior install so I used the existing ducting and gas line.
I love it.
It is rare that the existing gas line and vent is sufficient for a tankless. Most standard natural gas water heaters 35 to 45 thousand BTUH. A tankless heater may be rated 180 thousand BTUH and requires a larger gas supply line. Some models also require special venting. You were lucky you could use the existing setup.
Can you link the one you went with? Also, how many gallons did your previous tank hold? I’m trying to find something equivalent to replace my 40 gal tank for a 1900sq ft home. Any recommendations? Thanks!
It is unbelievable with all the haters posting on here. There is no magic to install a tankless water heater as long as you follow code and some common sense. The math is actually quite simple and the home owners can pull their own permits around this area. Condensing units have a few extra items. I still prefer the concentric models that are mid efficiency. But I also install a recirculating valve, scale filtration system and a water softener. Rinnai or Rheem are the most popular in these parts. You can easily buy them online and not have to pay insane markup.
@@vwspicer There's no way on God's green earth he didn't have to change something on the supply and vent side of things. For starters, a gas powered tankless that uses over 110,000 BTU will need a 3/4 supply line and also use a 5 inch vent - either atmospheric or powered. No residential water heater I know of needs these things. They all use a 1/2 supply and a 3 inch vent line. Sorry, @iangreenlee2330, but I call BS.
When I lived in Korea all of my dwellings had both the ondol (in-floor hot water) heat and tankless water heating connected to the ondol system. This meant that I could have pretty quick hot water when the ondol was running, but if the floor was cold I had to push a button to tell the system I was going to want hot water at the taps, then wait about five or ten minutes before any hot water would reach the taps. Otherwise it was all cold water all the time.
It seems to me that a tankless WH is best cost savings for more people in the house, and that if 1 or 2 people, you may actually save more using a tank. They say a tankless is good because it only runs when you use it, but I've had a tank water heater for 15 years now, and it pretty much only runs when I use it. And the BTU rating is less than half of what a tankless water heater would be. Also, if I were to go tankless, I would need to increase the size of my gas line to 3/4 from 1/2 inch. All of these things matter!
Tankless heaters in rural locations where well water is at a low temperature (around 40° F) cannot heat water fast enough or to a significant temperature to make showering comfortable. I worked at a hardware store where these tankless units were sold. We sold only 8 units in 2 years. All of them were returned because they just could not heat the well water to a high enough temperature to be serviceable.
It's a bit counter-intuitive on how to increase the water temperature when taking a shower if you have a tankless system... Instead of turning the hot water flow *up*, you need to turn it *down* and then adjust the cold water accordingly... I figured this out at an AirBnB rental that had a tankless system... My wife didn't figure it out and she ended up with a rather cool shower on a cold winter day and I ended up with a hot shower, albeit with a slightly reduced flow rate than she experienced...
I will NOT be buying a tankless hot water heater for my home...
How did they get the price of tank water heater to $2000? I can get someone to install it for $150.
“Someone” or a licensed plumber that has to pull permits and are insured?
Just sold my home of almost 30 years. I was on my 4th hot water heater 2 years ago. Each of the previous ones were 50 gallon tank and 12 year water heaters. They each lasted 9 years. My new home which is being built and 95% completed has a tankless water heater. I am excited about it as it is located outside. I don't have to worry about it leaking in my home and once the water is hot it is continuous. The previous 3 water heaters I changed out myself, but at 63 I am getting to the point where I do not want to have to deal with all that anymore. That is why I am building a new home. No more worries.
went tankless a few years ago and will never go back to a h.w. tank again
Awesome! As a Home Inspector it’s always beneficial to learn more and stay with technology to better inform our clients.
Thanks for your feedback! Happy New Years from us both. 🙏
then you shouldnt listen to these guys
I recommend against the recirculating pump. For a tankless water heater that requires the heater function to work almost full time completely eliminating the energy savings of the hot water on demand provided by the tankless water heater. If you want instant hot water, plan for an under counter heater. Much cheaper.
You are correct there. I was actually thinking the same thing. They made a bit of a fail on saying that. Lol
Damn good point, I thought that recirculating pump was a good idea until you pointed that out. Thanks !.
The recirc pumps have timers on them so you can set it to run only during peak times when you have the need for instant hot water keeping it from running all the time and putting unnecessary wear and tear on the tankless unit. Does hurt your overall savings but not that much.
@@nickgafa8527 just a hint on this thing you're saying and why it doesn't make sense. When the water is flowing the burner is on until the safety kicks in and shuts the burner off. At that point the water is hot enough to burn you. To restart the burner the water flow has to stop. All timers have a minimum number of minutes between events but you would only need about 1 minute of run time for the circulation pump per 10 minutes off time roughly. I believe the time minimum on pumps is 10 minutes. That is why a circulation pump isn't a good thing. On a regular water heater the water will never get above what you set it for on the tank. Now all this depends on the brand and model tankless setup you have but for the most part it's the way it goes.
I agree, with a recirculating pump the water in the pipes is being reheated regularly, effectively making your pipes into hot water storage, ie you have turned your pipes into a hot water tank! And with the volume vs surface area of the pipes compared to a tank I expect it would be quite inefficient to keep water in pipes warm.
We switched from tank to tankless 10 years ago and have been saving a lot of money. Moreover, tankless saves a lot of space also. As for the delay, there's no problem since our bathroom is pretty close to the water heater.
Use a recirculating valve or a buy a tankless that has one built-in. You can most certainly have instant hot water if you install the correct equipment. Problem solved!
@@owenblake90 My water in my neighborhood has their own aquifer. Why do you ask? I am not sure what point you are trying to make. My water is hard as hell, I will look up the test results, plus iron and sediment are so high in like a week it turns the filter this crazy red color. So I have a three filter whole house filtration system with a de-scaler before it goes into the water softener and then into the tankless water heater. My first tankless that I owned at a previous house was an awesome model Rheem that I installed myself with filtration and softener and I used a recirculating valve at the bathroom in my master bathroom. The next house, I put the same filtration in and put in a Rinnai Tankless system that has a recirculation valve buiilt-in. But the delay does not really bother me as I can wait the 60 seconds it takes to get to full temperature at the sink or shower. I just did it for my wife and family since it was included but I can disable it.
I am not sure what you mean by how many times was it flushed? And the amount of natural gas used to heat the water is barely even quantifiable on the bill. Either way, I have it set to manually fire the burner before the water is turned on. I am not sure what calculator you are using, but this is a high efficiency system on the new one and it barely uses any natural gas at all. Hell, my gas fireplace uses more. And it isn't all about saving energy or power because I do not care actually. I care about having endless filtered and soft water for my wife and family, plus clothes get cleaner and no white scale or mildew. The $5 bucks that is use to circulate early in the morning is tiny compared to running an 80 gallon hybrid tank for a whole family that some companies have tried to sell me.
@@Balticblue93 recirculating valve - I am sure eats away at those savings big time keeping your hot water lines filled with 120 water unless it is on a timer. Again more upfront costs
@@condor5635 at 3 bucks per 1000 gallons, I doubt i will be filing bankruptcy anytime soon because of my recirc valve. And we have two programs, one that has it ready in the morning and one by the manual button, if it is outside those hours. It also hooked to my phone by WiFi and knows if we are home. What has you so worried about what is going on in my house anyways?
@@Balticblue93 - happy you have it set up nicely the way you like it
You can use the pumps to circulate water to keep pipes hot but it costs a lot more in utilities than you might think. Hot water pipes aren't insulated and the added costs of running a pump. Just locate tank/tanks closer to the demand.
I know all this stuff. These guys are FULLY upfront and honest about water heating solutions. The only thing they were not clear on, is if you use a water recirculation pump. The cost is huge per year to do that with either system. Great Job Twin's! I would buy from you if in NJ.
The cost of a recirc pump is only a few hundred dollars. Yes, if you can't do your own work the labor will cost you, but it's affordable. I have installed several over the years and consider them essential.
We moved into a new house last year that was built in 2014, and it already had a tankless water heater. The "instant hot water" is definitely false, as it takes quite a while for most of our outlets to heat up, and we only have a 1 story house. In fact, we probably use more water simply because I end up letting the water run until it actually heats up, which can take seemingly forever (and also probably throws any savings we would have right out the window). I'll be looking into one of those re-circulators though to see if something like that could alleviate the issue.
I'll also have to look at doing regular maintenance on it as well. Before we even moved in we had to replace the circuit board in it as it went on the fritz between the time we bought the house and we actually moved in, but I never even thought about doing routine maintenance on it. I'll have to look at getting a plumber out here once a year or so to check things over to make sure everything works properly.
That's not the way it is supposed to be done.
Great informative video. Wish I had seen this a number of years ago when I was talked into installing a tankless. I'm now considering going back to a regular old-fashioned water heater because my tankless (which has never been maintained - who knew?) is not working well. As my folks used to say ""Too soon old and too late smart!"
How is it go did you when back to a regular water heater
Great stuff guys much appreciated!
Our architect planned our new house to include a water softener and a tankless water heater. But with just two retirees in the house you have me thinking about ROI for tankless given the difference in cost and installation. I'm definitely going to have a lengthy discussion about this with our builder before we go ahead with it. The water softener is a go in any case, but I'm thinking it will lengthen the life of a standard tanked water heater as well.
You just need to keep the anode rod replaced regularly. Softened water is great but it is corrosive due to the salt. It will consume an anode quicker than hard water. My last tank died in 10 years die to failed anode...i didn't know. But I do now and have a powered anode now.
You will never ever never regret having a tankless 37 years in the trade have had my Baxi combo boiler 20 years and never had any issues....well maybe one ..... ..:):)
but its just more then cost it Convenience as well as space .....A well installed boiler with filters whole house as it should be will out last any water tank those boys have 30 years combined I have 37 years ....
Ive put in hundreds of these and yes there can be issues as with any . Ive replaced more tanks then the on demand boilers ....
Do not let one appion sway you just look at the comments
I've had my tankless water heater since 2005 no problems yet. It runs two bathroom showers at the same time. With a big family it has been a blessing. I do have soft water.
Sure, purchased this property almost one year ago …has a Bosh on demand …approximately 13 years old…the quote to replace it with a new one , was anywhere from 4900, to over 6 k dollars.
A 50 gallon AOSmith was 1900. The gas savings is very minimal…using a single handle faucet in a shower is a pain to keep consistent temperature….
No, we ripped that thing off the wall, and installed the AO Smith…
If, you had a very large family, it might make economic sense to purchase one of these …but you better maintain it…..
Your video leaves the impression that you think that installing a tankless water heater is not a good idea. A tankless is not for everyone. There are disadvantages over a tank type as you point out, but there are also advantages. A more balanced analysis would have been more helpful. What I like about my high efficiency Rinnai tankless is:
1) The cost of operation is much lower for our household of just two people
2) It takes up much less space in my small garage
3) It doesn't need to be turned off and drained when we leave home for months, and then relighted on return
4) It has a service life twice that of a typical tank heater (if flushed with vinegar yearly)
5) It's very quiet
The main reason to go tankless is unlimited hot water, not cost. They require good water quality and annual descale, trap cleaning. A home owner can learn to do this if inclined. Combustion chamber needs to be cleaned also but frequency depends on gas, cleanliness of intake air and how well tuned combustion is.
Heaters with flue pipes have high standby losses up the flue. Electric tanked heaters are efficient but can be very expensive to run depending on utility rates and have slow recovery. Indirect stainless tanks are the least maintenance, have almost zero standby loss and provide instant hot water if installed correctly. But they require a boiler. Point of use electric require large electric loads, scale up quickly and are usually not recommended.
Dave! Come do a water heater video with us. You nailed it! 💪
We love our tankless water heater, I suffer from migraine headaches and most times I stand under the hot water and let it beat my neck and my head, back to front for as long as I could with a tank heater and would run it out of hot water, but with the tankless heater I'll stay under the hot water until most if not all the pain leaves. For me the tankless is a God send.
you electric bill will be over the roof then
@@MrBemnet1 natural gas. The smaller electric ones that are installed directly into bathrooms is more a European thing, or at your barber shop.
@@bobnothing4921 I see. but still the cost will be high .
@@MrBemnet1 It's really not. My entire families usage for an entire month costs me around $9, and we're a family of 6.
@@bobnothing4921 - Are you trying to kid us all? Do you have an additional source of power beside the grid?
I spend my days repairing all kinds of hot water systems and do warranty work for a couple of brands. My biggest piece of advice for anyone looking to install/upgrade or modify a hot water system is to keep it simple.
The more complex the system the more things can and do go wrong.
An example is a domestic house with all of the following in one system:
Solar roof panels (prone to damage from hail, icing, etc)
run by a pump (can burn out, or have other issues such as faulty back flow valves)
and control panel (burn out)
attached to a storage tank (normal tank issues, leaking etc)
with a tankless backup (PCB, fans, gas valves, water flow senors etc)
Fitted with a solar tempering valve. (Require replacement every 5 yrs)
This is a very expensive hot water system to install and will require a load of maintenance meaning you might never make back any costs from the installation before something needs to be repaired or replaced.
An electric storage tank is extremely simple (it's basically an oversized jug) and cheap to intall and repair, even if requiring replacement (compared to tankless)
Even a tankless system with the simple addition of a bathroom remote gains me so much extra callout work.
ty, i was thinking and calculating the side note and glad i saw this vid. make a lot of sense for me.
I loved my tankless. We since moved to another house with an old water heater and it runs out of hot water daily. I never ran out of hot water with the tankless. I definitely miss it!
If you still have this old water heater, it more than likely needs a new "dip Tube", that is the tube that takes the cold water towards the bottom of the water heater tank to heat it. When that tube fails, that cold water mixes with the hot water at the top of the tank, when it should be at the bottom of the tank, that is more than likely why you run out of hot water, it has nothing to do with tank or tankless.
@@michaelwright1602 - I ran into that problem several years ago, I finally figured it out when my faucet screens kept getting clogged with plastic.
@michaelwright I appreciate the info! I should have tried that before replacing it! Dang it!
I had a tankless water heater in a brand new townhome. Problems started after year 1. Every time using the master shower the hot water would shut off after 3 minutes. The hot water heater was constantly flashing a code 11 when the hot water stopped. Had a certified repair technician come out to look at it. The expert simply said it could "be any number of things" based on the error code. Needless to say we never fixed the issue before selling the home. The take away is that if it works it is great but when you run into problems it can be extremely difficult to diagnose the problems with these. You could end up paying a lot of money in trip costs for technicians to figure the issue out by trial and error. The house was under warranty and even with all trip costs pre-paid they still never got it fixed for us.
sounds like you didn't get the best tech in your home it should only take around 10-20 minutes diagnose any residential system.
@@willlive6845 i thought the same thing! They sent out 3 different technicians and all of them were playing the trial and error game based on the error code. Saying if this doesnt work call us back again. Too much of a headache but that was just my experience.
@@ByteMasterPro do you know what brand it was? “Flashing 11” is an error code and it would be a very distinct issue, and definitely fixable. Horrible company came to your home.
If you had a garden tub, or a free standing tub, most tankless systems cant support that much GPM in a home and self sustain. Different sizes do different things. Plus if it was flashing an error code 11 it was a Rhinnai and those are destined to fail within 6-8 years
@@mrfrog2494 What? Free standing tubs are more of a reason to get a tankless. Tankless heaters can provide north of 9 gpm at a 75 degree rise; tub fillers have an average of 3 gpm (floor mount) on the high end, and 2.2 on the average end.
I replaced my 75 gallon tank heater after 7 years when it started leaking badly. I replaced it with a Navien. It used my current 1/2" gas line and had a built in external circulation pump that I had setup to run on a schedule. It lasted 13 years and I replaced it with the newest Navien model. I have it setup up with a motion sensor and relay switch to turn on the built in circulation pump when I walk into the furthest bathroom (the only one far enough away to need circulation for instant hot water). I love my Navien tankless water heater.
We're about to install 3 tankless 3-Phase units in our house. One for the kitchen, mounted next to the sink, another bigger unit will be between 2 adjacent bathrooms serving them both and the nearby laundry and the 3rd will be a smaller one in the guest unit at the other end of the house. Position is key as our previous gas instant (tankless) heater was mounted miles from anywhere and we were using 5+ litres every time we needed hot water. Very wasteful. Now we'll get near instant heating at all taps (other than laundry) and unlimited for our family.
The primary reason I went with a tankless water heater was space (and ability to mount on a wall) but found that nearly unlimited hot water was great (ie shower a washing at the same time) saving is third on the list. Some tankless heaters have 20 year warranty
On the heat exchanger only. The Industry standard is typically 15 as long as you are maintaining yearly. If you have missed a year your warranty is gone.
This is true but the reality is that family of 4 never really needs more than a 50 gallon tank.
@@Clesarie my family of four needs more than 50 gallons I ha e a wife and 2 little girls that love their showers hot and long.
@@damiendoisher7812 gas heaters have heat exchangers. Electric heaters have coupled coils that can be replaced.
@@brandonhvacants2217 What matters in sizing a water heater it's delivery of heated water per hour. 50 gal delivered 12.5 gal at a time simultaneously to 4 people is different from 50 gal delivered sequentially.
We've had a Rinai in our home for 12 years and will never go back to a 'tanked' water heater! Have to call BS on the additional time it takes for hot water to get to faucets. Hot water exits the unit immediately after it senses water flow. We can also take back to back showers, and for as long as we wish, without worry of running out of hot water.
I agree. We have a Rinai as well for about as long as you've had. Never done any maintenance on it, either. Heck, this is the first time I've heard that it's even possible! Put a water softener in about five years ago, but never had a problem with the tankless. Running the gas line can be prohibitively expensive, though. Fortunately, we only needed a few feet extra.
Great, great, video ! From one long-term industry expert to another, awesome stuff 👏
Our issue is a big-old house and basement water heater far far away - like 80-100 foot runs to get to one bathroom and kitchen sink. We put a Rheem on-demand in the bathroom, and get hot water within 5-or-so seconds. It used to be a full minute and longer..In the kitchen, we put a 4 gallon electric for dishwashing. Our electric bills are averaging around $90 less per month over the old basement 50 gallon tank. With install, the tankless was $800. The little kitchen was simpler and total cost was $240.
I won't have anything but a tankless water heater. Remember tanked water heaters are engineered to only develop a leak when you are out of town.
That for sure is one of the cons!
Yeah bc tankless never leak 🤦🏼♂️
That is true. Mine started leaking just when I was leaving to play golf. It always happens that way.
@@aron6998 Not quite true. My 1985 Thermar tankless developed a small leak in the heat exchanger when it was 33 years old. Just a wet spot on basement floor the size of a dinner plate but couldn't repair it and company had gone out of business. Navien here we come.
@@craigerickson1910 I was being facetious because the main comment implied tankless doesn’t leak like a tank heater....see the emoji with the hand on the face?
Family of 5 (now 6 with my mother-in-law), so glad we went tankless. Soft water and once-a-year cleaning has proven perfect for us. No issues thus far besides the installer never properly venting the units intake air (fixed). Endless hot water is amazing!
Omg, thats rough broski my condolences 😔 I'd loose my mind if my mother in law had 2 move in. Glad you got lots of hot water tho
@@jabroski69 🤣
Thank you for the tips and the maintenance reminders.
Just my opinion, I have a major renovate my home with all new electrical and plumbing. I went with the option of tankless due to the availability of initial setup. Yes, the product cost is 3X more than the cost of a 50 gallons tank for a family of 4 but l look at the long run of 10 to 15 years saving and it only take so little space for mounting. To avoid mineral build from the tap, I had the plumber install a filter from the main Pike to the rest of the house. This serve as a prevention and water cleaning system and reduces a tremendous sentiment and mud build up from my faucets shower heads and sinks. it only cost $50 per year to have filtered cartridge replaced. So instead of annual cleaning of tankless system, I can wait for every 3 years so the amount of mineral build in the tank is minimum.
Tankless water heater’s only about $100 more at Lowe’s. I have a gas tankless heater on the outside of my house. I have a slab foundation, so not sure why you would need a crawl space. Estimated life expectancy on mine is 30 years, twice as long as the average standard tank water heater. I’ve never had a problem with mine in the 10 years I’ve had it.
Do you remember what brand unit it is?
Installed a tankless during a kitchen remodeling. My previous gas water heater was in the kitchen. The new tankless is mounted on the outside wall. Also took a small closet from an adjacent bedroom. Basically doubled the space in my kitchen.
The best benefit in my case was moving the water heater outside. We heat the system with gas. And I believe the old system was introducing carbon monoxide and other combustion byproducts into my house. My family rarely gets sick anymore!
The reason I went tankless is I was getting backdraft from my gas water heater when the dryer was running during a shower or an exhaust fan running. I went electric.
Great video! I was in the mortgage business for about 20 years it’s the same thing about looking at the break even on a refinance. Very similar concept.
Thanks! Great info.
Thanks for the video. Been looking into tankless. I agree with the myths. Tankless do require more maintenance, could lengthen the time to receive hot water by 5-10 seconds (1/2" tubing within the unit times the length =? gallons of water to flush through) The savings was a little muddy in the explanation. The run for the gas pipe is the same for either tank or tankless. Both are going in the same location. Equal cost. Venting could be different. Tankless last twice as long if both systems are equally maintained. You are correct, the savings is 90% efficient vs. tanked 50% efficient has all king of factors that play with the numbers.
One thing to think about is climate zones. Texas water is already 60+ degrees whereas Montana water is 45 degrees. This will reduce the flow rate because the tankless has to move the water slower to give it time to get up to 120 degrees.
The gas line for a tank water heater wouldn't necessarily be big enough for a tankless, you just have to check the requirements and what you have.
I'm not sure if this was already brought up but another thing to consider is venting. The exhaust for a tankless is a forced air exhaust and requires a sealed vent so you can't directly connect to a atmospheric vent, also a non condensating unit needs a metal exhaust so it doesn't melt. A condensating unit can use pvc but you also need a condensate drain line to be installed
Actually, Rinnai now makes a unit with a concentric exhaust/intake pipe that is PVC on the outer pipe for ease of install and has a built-in recirculation valve. Pretty sharp and mid efficiency so you do not have to deal with the drain line and neutralizing the acidic drain off.
@@Balticblue93 that would be a non condensing unit and the concentric vent is PVC for the outside intake air and the inside is metal so it doesn't melt. The condensing units fire from the top down and have cooler exhaust and can use a all PVC concentric vent or use separate 2 inch PVC intake and exhaust. Both condensing and non condensing units do have built in recirculating models. The condensing models still need a pvc condensate drain line ran.
@@bryanfreemyer5074 Good afternoon Bryan... . I said, Rinnai now makes a condensing model that has a concentric PVC venting system. I went to their vendor/reseller training and they did a demonstration of the unit. I am not sure if is on the market yet because I cannot find the part numbers online. I thought they said this fall would be released. It was fantastic to check out in person. I personally did not get to test it, but it was it was their "New HOT item" that is coming out soon. So you can buy it either condensing or non-condensing with a recirculation valve, but the piping is 100% concentric for sure. I am looking for the sales paperwork they handed out about the unit. But when I find it, I will get back to you. Just for the record, I understand how condensing units work. I install them all the time for clients.
@@Balticblue93 to my knowledge all of the Rinnai units have the ability to use the concentric vent. The condensing models require a PVC condensate drain to be ran, which is at the bottom of the unit. The concentric is for the intake and exhaust vent it's just a pipe inside another pipe. The new units they have are an improvement on the RL and RU(R) models , I think they are REC and RSC models. The non condensing units you need to use the concentric vent with the metal exhaust and the the condensing models need to be PVC exhaust concentric vent. They are direct matches for the ublink concentric vents. The new units are out now but still limited supply. I've only seen a couple installed in homes. The last time they came for our sales/tech training they did not bring any sales books for the new units. I'll probably get another one during the new installer training at the end of the month.
We have a tankless and a recirc. pump...so almost instant. Works pretty good. Our tankless has had multiple repairs and servicing in 5 years....we had a tank water heater before and never did anything with it in over 10 years, had hot water when power is out (not often, but does happen)....so for me, the recirc. pump is the feature I like the best... The extra cost and maintenance on the tankles...I probably would swap it for a tank if I could get my money back....but that's just my experience. I have not had to continuously use hot water...so If I did, then the tankless would be the way to go. Some use them for in-floor heating, so for that I would say definite yes.
I used to be a general contractor of homes is a mountainous area. I've installed a few tankless water heaters in new homes. A couple problems that arose involved the water pressure. If the household water pressure is to high and the homeowner attempts to draw a bath with the faucet wide open the heater can not keep up and won't supply hot water, another was in homes that had a gravity flow water system without enough pressure. The water heater will not ignite at all so a pump has to be installed to increase the pressure at the heater which is a drawback on a home that is off grid. Just some information one might think of before making the decision to use tankless.
My tankless install probably less than half that total and not having that big tank saved me a lot of space. Water takes a few seconds longer to get hot compared to a tank, but it's endless hot water after that. Never have to worry about running out of hot water.
Is it electric or gas? Did you save money on your bills in comparison with the tank?
@@squidusn71 It's electric and I really didn't pay that close attention to my bill. Although it has been a long time since I've thought that my electric bill was kind of high. So I would say it's either the same or slightly lower. It certainly would save money when I leave town since it's not heating water all the time.
My experience with tankless in Mexico was not good. I had hard water and it caused a lot of problems with the tankless system. I also have a hybrid system with rapid heating and a small tank, it also develops mineral deposits fast because of the rapid intense heating. I prefer old fashioned tank water heaters, less cost and maintenance imho.
I installed a 40 gallon electric hot water heater to replace an old oil fired hot water heater. Yes, I needed a 220v service. But the rest of the install was more home owner doable. I used the RUclips College advice for the plumbing part and an electrician provided the professionally installed electric service upgrade. With the inspection and all that said and done it still came in way lower than another oil fired unit. If you are thinking of an electric instant HWH, your still going to need the 220v service. Using 1.25 gallon per minute shower heads, for a family of four, never ran out of hot water.
We installed a tankless unit about 3 years ago. For whatever ridiculous reason, some Texas municipalities allow the water heater to be put in the attic! When it came time to replace, we wanted tankless for the endless hot water but also did not want 40 gallons of water being a sitting time bomb in the attic. No regrets! We can use both showers and laundry at same time. There is a slight delay for hot water reaching taps but no more than the tank unit. Was recommended to have unit flushed once a years to remove scale and deposits since our water here in the Houston area is rock hard. All in all, the pros far outweighed the cons for our situation.
What gpm tankless do you have??
@@cassthompson3386 3.3GPM
A couple significant things left out of this…
1) Tankless water heaters - properly maintained - will last 20-25 years on average (it’s not unheard of to see residential units lasting upwards of 30 years). Compare that to the average lifespan of a traditional tank-style water heater that lasts only 8-12 years on average and you’ll be spending far more money (not to mention time and hassle) on your tank-style heater over the long haul.
2) Tank-style water heaters can often leak causing hundreds, if not thousands of dollars in damage when they do. This is a risk that just doesn’t exist with a tankless water heater.
3) Tank-style water heaters lose capacity as they get older, so you’ll find yourself with less and less available hot water as the unit ages.
4) Tankless is just better for almost everyone. The important thing is to make sure you get a unit that will meet the demands of your living situation.
Very good point on longevity. Very little information is provided on this factor.
BUT THESE TWO CLOWNS IN THIS VIDEO .....providing information ......oh God this was horrible to listen to these clowns just to get the information.
OMG ......ABSOLUTELY PAINFUL LISTENING TO THESE TWO CLOWNS!!!!
.
i don't get it . why do most western country prefer/tank/tankless water heater instead of those instant water heater which u fix right in the toilet?
@@kayposia4997 fix to the toilet? What on earth are you even talking about? I’m very skeptical that is even a thing that exists - I mean, who wants hot water in their toilet? That also couldn’t possibly feed hot water everywhere in the house so it’s virtually useless even if it does exist.
not toilet bowl. where i'm from toilet means bathroom. anyway i get it now. 'hot water everywhere in the house' . thanks for answering my question.
I have a direct vent tank water heater that is over 25 yrs old with no problems. Propane fueled. Our water is from a well that I soften and adjust pH but it is still moderately hard. We have not lost capacity and have 3 bathrooms. I have flushed it twice in 25 yrs and never noticed rust or debris. Anode is original. The building code requires that the water heater sit in a pan that is drained outside. If a leak does cause a lot of damage the house was poorly designed/built in this respect. A tankless water heater can leak and cause extensive damage if it is not outside or situated properly also. I was planning for the eventual replacement of the water heater and was looking into tankless. I am inclined to stick with tank-type now.
Install a water softener helps. Can install probably 3 water heaters over 30 years for the cost of 1 tankless water heater. Water incoming temp will skew energy ratings like in the northeast. Also very expensive to repair tankless and get the parts because most suppliers don't stock. Many plumbers are not versed in the repair department of tankless. Home owners don't want to put money into maintenance, they are there own worst enemy.
If you can replace 3 power vented water heaters for the same price as one tankless you’re doing something wrong.
Thanks for the tip on the descaling fittings.
good information! I installed a cheapo amazon propane tankless hot water heater about 10 years ago, and it still works great! Total cost of the heater and misc. fittings and hoses was about $250, and it took 2 hours to install...
Recently my hot water tank began leaking after 15 years. So it had to be replaced. I chose tankless. First of all, tankless will be cheaper on a monthly basis because I am a single person in my home. With the tank unit I was heating the water 95% of the time for no reason. Now I only heat the water when I need it. The numbers: to replace the water heater with another tank unit was going to be $550 for the unit plus $720 installion. The units had a 6-10 year warranty period. The tankless unit plus the accessories mentioned in this video came to about $800, the plumber was $400 and the electrician to run increased power $650. So basically, the tankless unit cost about $580 more to install. However, with appropriate maintenance the tankless unit could last 20 years. I estimate the monthly savings in power to be $20 (because I am a single person). So the breakeven point to cover the additional cost of the tankless is about 2 1/2 years. For me, tankless was the best alternative. But for other situations, the conventional tank system might be better.
Tankless unit last 20 years? I think that is super conservative. If you maintain it and flush every year or two depending on hardness of your water (check with your water company to get analysis) you should get 30 or more years from a modern tankless. My first tankless lasted 34 years. 1985-2019. RIP!
I sold my house last year with a 27 year old gas hot water heater in it which was still going strong. BTW… I lived in that house for 16 years and never flushed the tank.
Huge space saver. Decent energy savings if you manage your hot water usage. We have one and love it. But we also live in a very small house so space is a premium.
Wait until that thing goes out, your average bill will be 500 buck.
@@dangda-ww7de I haven't seen a tank water heater for less than $400 in years so I would say the repair will be about the same. Plus having to worry if you are going to be able to fit the same size tank in is pain.
@@pewing99 That is just 1 repair, as you know the tankless got many electronic inside so anything can go wrong, and to wait for part will average 3days, can you go without hotwater for 3 days?
@@dangda-ww7de I went without electricity for two weeks during an ice storm and I survived. That was 1991. No I wouldn't want to do it again. But three days is no big deal. Yeah there are electronics inside a tankless but they are modular and easy to remove and replace. Even the homeowner can do it if you have a multimeter and a little knowledde easily gained from RUclips.
Don't be afraid of fixing things if you do some homework. It ain't rocket science. I installed my own Navien 180S tankless at age 75. Cost me $1500. Two trusted plumbing supply houses each gave me estimate around $4000. My dollars per hour savings paid for way more than the beer I drank installing it ha-ha.
@@craigerickson1910 I have an electric tank water heater right now, and i'm thinking about going with a Navien tankless gas water heater. How is the performance and the efficiency? It's hard enough to find savings comparisons going from tank to tankless, even harder going from electric tank to gas tankless. Thanks
I installed a tankless water heater about 40 years ago. If I had a tank type heater, I would be on my 3rd water heater now.
You really don’t need to maintain it if you have soft water. I have yet to flush my tankless water heater in 40 years and it’s still going strong.
The 3 things you need for long life of the unit and efficient operation are:
1. A water softener, this prevents any scale buildup within the water heater and allows the water to heat faster.
2. A good water regulator. This provides a predictable flow rate because the water pressure remains constant. My water heater runs at a ideal flow rate of 2.5 g.p.m. and the water regulator
allows me to adjust the flow rate due to a predictable pressure.
3. A good whole house filter. This will keep out sediment out water breaks which may occur outside the home. I use a carbon filter which also serves to remove chlorine.
Another helpful tip would be to install a water pressure gauge upstream and downstream of your water regulator so that you know when it wears out. This will tell you the pressure entering your house compared to the regulated pressure. When the water pressure downstream of your regulator begins to exceed the set pressure then it is time to replace the regulator.
With these conditions your tankless water heater can last a very long time with minimal maintenance. The initial investment is higher but if you plan on staying in your home for a long period of time, it’s well worth it. I know I’ve saved several thousands of dollars over the lifetime of my water heater.
One simple search and it seems like I found the best. Great info and I'll be watching more boys.
I have to wait for the cold water to move through the pipes anyway…but a circulating pump would be the best option…a tankless is space saving and I like it because I never run out of hot water opposed to a tank system.
I never run out of hot one with the tank. So what?
When we got our tankless we saved a lot more than the tags said, it was noticeable year over year on the gas usage….
I have a tankless system and I love it , my selling point was the space saver , which is huge
when my water heater died I swapped it out for a tankless. I installed it my self with minimal plumbing knowledge. As an electrician I found the install very simple taking about 4 hours as my first water heater install ever. I needed a water heater that could handle 8 back to back showers. I love the tankless water heater when it works but I'll never buy Rheem/Richmond again. Local fitter tells me nuisance is a synonymous with Rheem, to go to Navien when ready to replace it.
Rheem gets nuance error codes and I frequently clean and replace flame rods. In 7 years I'm on it's 3rd motherboard, average 1 error code a month, change flame rods regularly, and pump vinegar through it annually. I've had the cover off so often it's held on with with magnets for quick easy access.
I installed a tankless myself ~17 years ago and still happy with it. I have let people know the big cost for installing was increasing the gas line size. For me the piping materials cost was almost as much as the hot water heater. Fortunately our water has no or very little mineral content.
Why do you heat hot water?
Look at the Navien NPE-240A2 199,000 BTU Condensing Premium Gas Tankless Water Heater. Does not need increased gas line size. Big savings. The system pulls more gas thru the line.
My old tank one had 1/2" gas line and I had to increase it to 3/4", fortunately for me it only meant replacing the tee and about 3 feet of pipe all inside the utility room. I also had to have a bigger gas meter installed to handle the increased volume of gas but the gas company did that for free.
@@fillg Great job! I love hearing of non-plumbers doing installs the right way and saving big bucks by doing it yourself. No need to get ripped off!!
@@Amen.22 he's saying it's a water heater that's hot, ergo hot water heater. Like saying hot lawn mower, it doesn't mean the lawn is hot. Ok maybe not
I saw a tankless in Belgium it was in the bathroom by the shower that’s instant hot when showering and I cooked breakfast while showering very great
Europeans seem not to mind having a polished (mechanical-looking) box on the wall near the kitchen and/or bathroom. It certainly makes things more efficient and "instant!"
I see you made some hard boiled eggs 🥚 👀
Got a quote from a plumber willing to install a tankless for $4000. LOL
I am on my second tankless heater and love. With the first system my natural gas went down 22.00 22 x12 x 18 years = $4752. My old tank was $1400, the new tank$2900. I am still ahead by $332. I didn't factor in price increases over 18 years for the natural gas i wore out the metal tubing by having many four hour showers or baths.i love my on demand with no pilot light runnung.highly highly recommend getting this over old-fashioned
Tank system
With the tankless heater with the recirculation pump wouldn't that cause the heater to continuously run?
I would like to know that too, I suspect those don't run constantly, maybe they kick in when you turn on the water to get it there quicker. IMHO there should be a button near each faucet that would make it run for 30 seconds, but I doubt that is the case.
I talked to a friend/Master Plumber about tankless. My current tank is starting to have some issues due to the electronics package so I wanted to do some research before it dies completely. He said that for me, with a house already plumbed for a standard tank, I would have a hard time justifying the cost of installing two of these units. I have a 4K sqft home with three showers and four bathrooms. Buying them, having them mounted, the cost of a quality contractor who will mount it to look good on the outside of the house (two story brick), running the propane, adapting the water lines, and running a pipe through the attic/roof. He said that if I were building a new home it might be something to consider but adapting them to my existing home would be an expensive luxury. I am going to put one in the detached garage next summer after I finish with the insulation.
In our opinion your plumber is right on point. Unless your really needing the space or if the tank is susceptible to cause major water damage to your home then, it’s something to consider making the conversion. Thanks so much for sharing this valuable info.
i think i would sell that house at once but i'm not paying for the maintenance.
Lol the problems of living in a castle. poor you
@@paulbienvenu5494 are you really attacking this person for this?
@@syreplays5079 I'm not attacking anybody, don't you think that word is a little too intense?
Still I think it's funny that his biggest problem seems to be that he can't have tankless water heater in his 4000SQF house with 4 bathrooms.
I mean what world are we living in
I’ve owned two separate electric tankless water heaters in two separate homes. One was a new build and one was replacement. The replacement was installed after replace it two conventional. You mentioned build up inside the tankless. I inspected mine through the bottom plates. After 9 years the elements and tubes were as clean as the day I installed the heater. Calcium builds as water heats. That water doesn’t heat unless water is flowing. Yes it does take about twice as long to get there as conventional but having a wife and daughter and a wife that enjoys a hot soaking tube isn’t ideal with conventional. Tankless on the other hand as soon as she turns off valve I can shower with limitless hot water. Also in the replacement house my electric bill dropped 16-18 dollars a month from the year before.
You mentioned running gas lines and venting as the extra cost of tankless. If you installed gas conventional you have to do the same thing. As for me when my current conventional goes out on this house a tankless will replace it. If the hot water is off it’s not costing a dime and not building calcium in the tank. Conventional can’t say that.
If you've had either. You would know about the hot water lag because of the distance traveled. I don't mind a few seconds of lag so that doesn't bother me. Insulating your hot water pipes with foam tubing helps. It's code in many cold climates to wrap both your running water pipes & your circulatory pipes for heating, or they could freeze, expand & burst. They can't burst coming to your house 3 ft down, because the dept Insulates them naturally. You can install a hot water coil underneath your sink with dispenser right next to your fausette if you don't like waiting. Everything needs maintenance like they said. As far as tank vs tankless, I am in an area where outages are not uncommon & I like to have that spare 40 gallons of hot water when it happens. It's a good idea to have a cold water holding take as well. For the same reason. If you have a well you probably already do. If not you probably don't.
I used tankless in Asia for years. They cost about 100 per unit and would last about 5 years or more. Simple to replace. It all depends on how much hot water you need.
Went from boiler hot water from my oil fired furnace to tankless gas. My savings were 80 percent. Saves on wear and tear on my furnace and endless hot water. Have 5 people in the house. My gas bill is maybe 60 to 80 a month for that. I don't mind waiting the extra 10 seconds. It may be different in other situations, but it works for mine. Great video and very informative. Thanks.
Thank you so much for your information. I needed to replace my hot water tank heater, and think about tankless. But there wasn't much useful comparison info. out there!
My son introduced me to tankless water heaters about 20 years ago. I bought a new house (brand new construction) and had them remove the tank and replace it with tankless. I built a new home and went all electric with my BOSCH electric tankless I paid $800 for 11 years ago. Installed it myself, and it is still going strong. It is fed from a well. It provides hot water just as fast as any tank would. Unless you are paying to circulate your hot water, there is always a slight delay between turning on the hot and getting hot.
I have a gas tankless. My bill last month for natural gas was $25. (water heater is the only gas appliance in the home) Yeah, it's REALLY inexpensive, and we NEVER run out of hot water. This has been a blessing...living with my brother and his gf, we OFTEN fought over hot water usage before this was installed. It also takes up SIGNIFICANTLY less space than the old water heater. Also, if you are charging people $1400 to install a $600 water heater, you are ripping them off, BADLY. Usually it's around $1000 installed for a $600 unit...and it only takes about an hour, MAYBE two of labor. Remind me never to do business with you guys.
Yeah these guys seem like quacks.
In the Netherlands we are used to tankless waterheating because we are heating our houses with gas. The heathing and warm water is combined in a so called combi kettle without any tank. In the future we are going to use more and more heating pumps. In that case we need hot water tanks. That's new for us and we are not used to that.
Used a tank less when I was in Netherlands 🇳🇱. Sure gas heating is common in NL for sure. Not so much here in Latvia 🇱🇻. Now I am in the city with District heating mostly from a CHP plant. But far more houses are still heated using firewood. Planing to move back to countryside and rebuild the house with a groundsource heatpump :)
Thanks Twin Home Experts.
The arguments you guys mention about costs for going with a tankless, or tanked goes for lighting as well. People think spending hundreds on outdoor LED lights like security or pole lights will save you so much money in electricity.. When in fact it would take years and years and years to even pay itself off, vs just replacing the bulb on a high pressure sodium or mercury vapor lamp etc
I had a SETS tankless for my first one. Absolutely loved it. Lasted 20 years with zero maintenance...but nothing was wrong with the heating part of it...all the internal copper pipes started being eaten away because no one told me I needed a pre-filter to get out the calcium. Monthly electric bill dropped about 25 bucks after I installed this so I don’t agree with these guys. Now I have a Stiebel Eltron with a pre-filter. Best choice out there in my opinion. Should last the rest of my life.
You should still be descaling your tankless system about once per year. It's very simple to do and will maximize the lifespan.
I installed a tankless water heater last year. Things I noticed, cost me about ~$100 in parts, getting about 18% less gas use, same amount of time to get hot water to the faucet, about 75% less hot gasses out the vent in fact I can hold my hand over the vent when its running, did not have to change gas line or volume, and bottom line the tankless unit was less than half the cost of a tank water heater. So, for me this has been a vary cost/energy efficient decision.
The question is... How much did you spend in total? LOL
@@JodBronson alot less then OP would pay in 10 -15 years when he would be having to replace the tank.
@@billweirdo9657 - Really? You didn't go to your math classes huh? 😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@JodBronson Yes because trying to insult someone rather then explaining your posistion makes you look educated.... Not really...
@@billweirdo9657 - Why would I? It's an EASY WAY to understand. Ah... So now you are showing me dumber and dumber? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Does a traditional hot water heater throw off heat to the room it’s in. I live in florida and my garage is hot enough without the hot water heater adding to it. I was thinking of getting a gas tankless and putting it outside
I have one in my work shop we work on weekends. sometimes 3 or 4 days per month. so for about 20 days on average the energy is not used to re heat water like in a traditional tank heater. It boils :) down to circumstance.