Great explanation! And the best thing is there's better headers available nowadays than what we used to get back in the day with all the new coatings!👍
You hit the point on your demonstration. Very easy to understand once shown. I loved the quick header install video on the van. Thanks for sharing. Happy Thanksgiving
Yeah, there’s a lot of folklore on manifolds lol. I prefer them for a stock look (those Pure Stock class ET’s are impressive too!). I remember the Graveyard Carz guy saying the HP manifolds were proven to flow more than headers lol.
Career exhaust man here, now that doesn't mean i know more than others. But i have some strong opinions ill share on the subject. First off, Headers....Long tube headers are wonderful. Aside from peak power which isnt all that important, a tuned length long tube header will make the whole curve better and they build great low and mid range torque. Some engine will see improved manifold vacuum with long tube headers. With Long tubes, less is more....most street engines will appreciate a header with a 1 5/8s primary and 2.5 or 3 inch collector. That being said, if you have a vehicle with great manifolds like a b/rb mopar with HP's, a 360 with truck center dumps, a chevy with vette 2.5 outlet ram horns , or something like a Pontiac with ram air iv manifolds or a 406fe or 421sd poncho with the tuned length manifolds and you would like to keep plug access and maintainance down, stick with the manifolds. Ive found shorty headers to be as they say " juice not worth the squeeze" , you may gain 5-10hp but you dont get the torque and midrange power benefits of a tuned length long tube and you make plug access and maintenance harder. The only time i consider a shorty header an improvement is if its all that will fit, and the only manifold thatll fit your application otherwise is a small diameter log manifold.
Good video with good info. Thx. Wonder if anyone has ported any of those manifolds ? I’ll stick with the Dougs long tubes. Took your suggestion on them from the 360 Duster !! Thx 👍
HEADERS ARE GOOD IN EVERY WAYS! HP, SOUND AND SPECIALY ON THE SOUL FEELING. It just feels good in the head. 😊 Put lipstick on the exhaust tube after the connectors and cut where the lipstick stop burning on drag racing application 🎉 Super Nice content again. I hope the wife gave you a Nice back rub for this video cause you scored on it again. ❤
My 81 W250 had headers, stock 318 I put a 4 barrel on it. After over ten years, the headers rusted out, so I put manifolds on it. Definitely felt a drop in power, the drop in mpg was over 1 mpg. Ordered a set of new Hedmans pretty fast. It no longer has the stock 318, either.
EGT's has quite a bit to do with it. Just my belief, but manifold thermal expansion and retraction is what causes manifolds to crack, warp, and bolts to just mysteriously snap-off. I don't use gaskets on manifolds, when possible.
What you are saying has merit I think the tube's on headers should be the same length the sonic waves that travel back and forth the tube's suck the same amount of fresh charge in each cylinder the engine will be smooth and increase performance even a small amount
The eazer the engine can suck air in and push it out the more power and mpg it will make. What about H and x pipes. Is that any gain? Also 2 stroke exhaust pipes are for changing where the engine makes power in the rpm range. Like cam timing in a 4 stroke. 2 stroke pipes work differently.
The thing with F.A.S.T. is "appearing". Some will go though the process of extrude honing their manifolds. Really expensive process that will open up the manifold almost to the size of headers, also making them super smooth for maximum flow. Used to be about $650.00 for this process but I'm sure it has gone up over time. Will never replace flow of headers, but if your class only allows manifolds, there's always tricks.
What affordable headers do you recommend for tin grille's? I want a 3 inch collector and a decent sized flange. Of course bigger primarys would be nice too. Small block 360
Its easy breathe through a straw then breathe through a 3in pipe and you have your answer.... But then there's putting headers in on a A body and you have another answer! 😂😂😂 only you can decide if it's worth it.... Stock manifolds have a lot of advantages lower cost and fit are high on the list.
@@frigglebiscuit7484 Fender well exit? I didn't work on it but My friend had Hooker chassis headers on a 383 A body and had to pull the engine halfway out to change the starter. My fenders were cut before I got mine ( for fender race headers) but I had the factory manifolds so I welded inner fenders back in. Really shut the engine down over 5500. Still hard to change the starter behind the manifold. Still faster to jack the engine up to pull manifold bolts. LA 's seemed to be a lot easier to work on to me.
I've done a few tests with headers vs HP manifolds. Kind of disagree with you saying that low power engines do not need headers. Nothing needs headers, but every engine benefits from them. It's more a matter of the size how much. Commercially only very limited choice of sizes starting from 1 5/8". A very low power 318 could use smaller primaries than 1 5/8". The size required also depends of the engine itself. Some "like" smaller diameter, even at same power level. I would say that typically people use too large primaries. You may see a few horsepower more with bigger, but may loose low end torque considerably. A few examples I have dynoed. A SB stroker 414, factory heads ported, 9.5:1, 275 degree hydraulic cam, factory intake and exhaust manifolds. Made 410 hp with 340 manifolds, 440 with smashed 1 5/8" cheapo headers. Both used the same size exhaust with the same mufflers. Roughly 5% difference, but the bigger difference was in torque, especially at low end, about 10%. A stroked 383 to 488, 451 hp with magnum manifolds, 486 hp with 1 3/4" primary headers. Similar to the SB as far as the low end tq goes. And yet another example of the header size. A 360 4" stroker, 2" primary fenderwell race headers vs. 1 5/8" cheapos. The 2" made 8 hp more at peak. It even made slightly more peak tq at higher rpm. But the difference at low rpm was drastic. The engine with the 2" headers was a complete dog under 3500 rpm. You just couldn't load it at low rpm, it had nothing there. While with the 1 5/8" you could load it from off idle and it pulled clean all through the range. The curve was way cleaner too without peaks. Your explanation about the scavenging wqas good, that's where all the headers take benefit of. However, in a header or the exhaust, there is no steady flow. There are pulses that start very strong in the primaries and then ends. When it gets out of the collector, it creates a return pulse that goes upwards the primary. By tuning headers, length and size, you can time that return pulse so that it helps the scavenging even more at certain rpm and do its things with the cam overlap period. But that's where it gets very complicated for most of us regular people and maybe do not need that much attention. So, to put it all together, you always benefit from right size headers, even considerably. But it's your choice, is it worthy to you with the hassle the headers usually bring with. Ground clearance, fit, leaks, plug access, heat, starter access; you name it. Don't except to buy 200$ headers that are perfect in those senses. Usually the more expensive ones are better, and I think it's a good idea in the long run to invest the 1000$ or so to something like TTI's in a street car. It will save you from most of the hassle involved.
The exhaust through one tube does indeed draw on another tube but this is the least reason and not talked about event because of the meaningless low impact of the draw which you confused with the pressure wave being terminated that induces a negative pressure wave back to the cylinder with the opening event to draw in more air and fuel at the valve overlap. This is why there is so much about cam event talk and the relationship of the LSA vs cubic inch displacement and valve size couple with cylinder head efficiency and header size and efficiency along with the intake track to compliment the cylinder filling process. This can also be rpm dependent targeted for specific reasons & vehicles for there purpose. The process of header tube size length coupled with the same idea with the collector are one side of the balance equation.
That was a very good demonstration you did with the airhose, it was" almost genius " I said almost so dont be getting all big headed 😅😂 jk that will get some views for sure
That was a Perfect example that you illustrated. Hi Performance Clinic with 318 willrun!!!!!!
Thanks!! I appreciate that!
Great explanation! And the best thing is there's better headers available nowadays than what we used to get back in the day with all the new coatings!👍
Thanks! Yes, fitment has been greatly enhanced!
Excellent demonstration Tim!
Many thanks!
If a person can afford headers, they should go with them for more performance and better sound quality. Tim's header class 101, lol
Thanks.... "class 101" LOL
Great video David Fryberger on engine Masters prove headers gain you horsepower no matter what I like your video. Good job.
Appreciate that! Thanks for watching.
You hit the point on your demonstration. Very easy to understand once shown. I loved the quick header install video on the van. Thanks for sharing. Happy Thanksgiving
Thanks, and Happy Thanksgiving to you as well !
I've never heard it explained so well. Thanks!
Thanks! 👍
Yeah, there’s a lot of folklore on manifolds lol. I prefer them for a stock look (those Pure Stock class ET’s are impressive too!). I remember the Graveyard Carz guy saying the HP manifolds were proven to flow more than headers lol.
yeah, if a header doesn't add power I question the tune. Thanks!
Career exhaust man here, now that doesn't mean i know more than others. But i have some strong opinions ill share on the subject. First off, Headers....Long tube headers are wonderful. Aside from peak power which isnt all that important, a tuned length long tube header will make the whole curve better and they build great low and mid range torque. Some engine will see improved manifold vacuum with long tube headers. With Long tubes, less is more....most street engines will appreciate a header with a 1 5/8s primary and 2.5 or 3 inch collector. That being said, if you have a vehicle with great manifolds like a b/rb mopar with HP's, a 360 with truck center dumps, a chevy with vette 2.5 outlet ram horns , or something like a Pontiac with ram air iv manifolds or a 406fe or 421sd poncho with the tuned length manifolds and you would like to keep plug access and maintainance down, stick with the manifolds. Ive found shorty headers to be as they say " juice not worth the squeeze" , you may gain 5-10hp but you dont get the torque and midrange power benefits of a tuned length long tube and you make plug access and maintenance harder. The only time i consider a shorty header an improvement is if its all that will fit, and the only manifold thatll fit your application otherwise is a small diameter log manifold.
Thanks for sharing your expertise! Well said!!!
They are nice but after putting headers in a 74 Duster i will probably not do it again. I do like the HP exhaust manifolds on the big blocks.
Thanks! I definitely understand!! In fact, when it comes to my A-bodies, I will only install Doug's or TTI's anymore
Generally, I stick with stock manifolds if it's just a daily driver, but I'll go with headers for any sort of performance/hot rod vehicle.
yep, i use both myself!
A good alternative to headers are the Magnum truck manifolds which exhaust exits out the back of them. They can even be used on some cars.
Yep!! Thanks!
Great explanation!
Thanks!
I'm keeping the HI-PO manifolds on my 65 Dart GT 273.
Excellent choice!! Thanks!
Good video with good info. Thx. Wonder if anyone has ported any of those manifolds ? I’ll stick with the Dougs long tubes. Took your suggestion on them from the 360 Duster !! Thx 👍
Thanks!!! Enjoy your Thanksgiving!!
HEADERS ARE GOOD IN EVERY WAYS!
HP, SOUND AND SPECIALY ON THE SOUL FEELING. It just feels good in the head. 😊 Put lipstick on the exhaust tube after the connectors and cut where the lipstick stop burning on drag racing application 🎉
Super Nice content again. I hope the wife gave you a Nice back rub for this video cause you scored on it again. ❤
I had wrote the message at the beginning and you said everything right after. 😂
Hey, I really appreciate it! I'll tell her about that back rub 😅
My 81 W250 had headers, stock 318 I put a 4 barrel on it. After over ten years, the headers rusted out, so I put manifolds on it. Definitely felt a drop in power, the drop in mpg was over 1 mpg. Ordered a set of new Hedmans pretty fast. It no longer has the stock 318, either.
I love true live testaments!! Thanks for sharing!
Great video, love my Dougs on my 318. Have an enjoyable Thanksgiving
Thanks! You too!!
That's great information Tim! Thanks for sharing! And Happy Thanksgiving!
Thanks! Happy Thanksgiving to you too!
Nice example! Thank you.
Hey Stephen!! Thanks!!
Tim I finally got my car I’ve wanted for a long time my first mopar 1973 challenger 340 4 speed rally dash petty blue.
That is awesome!!!! 👍
Nick at Nicks Garage is over fitting headers 🙀😂. But I love them there been on most of my Mopars . Truth Teller Tim . 👌🇦🇺✌️.
Hey Thanks!!
EGT's has quite a bit to do with it. Just my belief, but manifold thermal expansion and retraction is what causes manifolds to crack, warp, and bolts to just mysteriously snap-off.
I don't use gaskets on manifolds, when possible.
I try not to run gaskets with manifolds either! Thanks!
What you are saying has merit I think the tube's on headers should be the same length the sonic waves that travel back and forth the tube's suck the same amount of fresh charge in each cylinder the engine will be smooth and increase performance even a small amount
Yes! Thanks, and Happy Thanksgiving!
@318willrun gidday im in new Zealand we don't celebrate Thanksgiving hope you have a great time with your Thanksgiving
@@Grandadsjunk Thanksgiving is a date on a calendar. Being thankful is every day on the calendar in every land. 🙂
The eazer the engine can suck air in and push it out the more power and mpg it will make. What about H and x pipes. Is that any gain? Also 2 stroke exhaust pipes are for changing where the engine makes power in the rpm range. Like cam timing in a 4 stroke. 2 stroke pipes work differently.
Yep, keep it all a flow'n! Thanks!
The thing with F.A.S.T. is "appearing". Some will go though the process of extrude honing their manifolds. Really expensive process that will open up the manifold almost to the size of headers, also making them super smooth for maximum flow. Used to be about $650.00 for this process but I'm sure it has gone up over time. Will never replace flow of headers, but if your class only allows manifolds, there's always tricks.
Yes, you can maximize what you have!
thank you good video and your so right
Thanks! We appreciate you watching!!
What affordable headers do you recommend for tin grille's? I want a 3 inch collector and a decent sized flange. Of course bigger primarys would be nice too.
Small block 360
I like the hedman's as far as budget/quality. They really have worked well for me. You can buy better but it will cost you a lot more.
Great video as always thanks
We appreciate it!!
Its easy breathe through a straw then breathe through a 3in pipe and you have your answer.... But then there's putting headers in on a A body and you have another answer! 😂😂😂 only you can decide if it's worth it.... Stock manifolds have a lot of advantages lower cost and fit are high on the list.
Yes, certainly for each person to decide. Each application has it's own challenges as well. Thanks!
big block a body headers fit better than the small block ones lol
@@frigglebiscuit7484
Fender well exit? I didn't work on it but My friend had Hooker chassis headers on a 383 A body and had to pull the engine halfway out to change the starter. My fenders were cut before I got mine ( for fender race headers) but I had the factory manifolds so I welded inner fenders back in. Really shut the engine down over 5500. Still hard to change the starter behind the manifold. Still faster to jack the engine up to pull manifold bolts.
LA 's seemed to be a lot easier to work on to me.
As long as the headers are affordable for reasonable prices it’s great for everyone
true!
We put some long tubes and my buddy 89 dodge 318 efi with some glass packs. Old granny gear 4 speed and that thing was a weapon. lol.
That’s awesome! Sounds like a great combo!!
@ Totally stock and she was a ripper
I've done a few tests with headers vs HP manifolds. Kind of disagree with you saying that low power engines do not need headers.
Nothing needs headers, but every engine benefits from them. It's more a matter of the size how much. Commercially only very limited choice of sizes starting from 1 5/8".
A very low power 318 could use smaller primaries than 1 5/8". The size required also depends of the engine itself.
Some "like" smaller diameter, even at same power level. I would say that typically people use too large primaries. You may see a few horsepower more with bigger, but may loose low end torque considerably.
A few examples I have dynoed. A SB stroker 414, factory heads ported, 9.5:1, 275 degree hydraulic cam, factory intake and exhaust manifolds. Made 410 hp with 340 manifolds, 440 with smashed 1 5/8" cheapo headers. Both used the same size exhaust with the same mufflers. Roughly 5% difference, but the bigger difference was in torque, especially at low end, about 10%.
A stroked 383 to 488, 451 hp with magnum manifolds, 486 hp with 1 3/4" primary headers. Similar to the SB as far as the low end tq goes.
And yet another example of the header size. A 360 4" stroker, 2" primary fenderwell race headers vs. 1 5/8" cheapos. The 2" made 8 hp more at peak. It even made slightly more peak tq at higher rpm.
But the difference at low rpm was drastic. The engine with the 2" headers was a complete dog under 3500 rpm. You just couldn't load it at low rpm, it had nothing there. While with the 1 5/8" you could load it from off idle and it pulled clean all through the range. The curve was way cleaner too without peaks.
Your explanation about the scavenging wqas good, that's where all the headers take benefit of. However, in a header or the exhaust, there is no steady flow. There are pulses that start very strong in the primaries and then ends. When it gets out of the collector, it creates a return pulse that goes upwards the primary.
By tuning headers, length and size, you can time that return pulse so that it helps the scavenging even more at certain rpm and do its things with the cam overlap period. But that's where it gets very complicated for most of us regular people and maybe do not need that much attention.
So, to put it all together, you always benefit from right size headers, even considerably. But it's your choice, is it worthy to you with the hassle the headers usually bring with. Ground clearance, fit, leaks, plug access, heat, starter access; you name it. Don't except to buy 200$ headers that are perfect in those senses.
Usually the more expensive ones are better, and I think it's a good idea in the long run to invest the 1000$ or so to something like TTI's in a street car. It will save you from most of the hassle involved.
truth! Thanks!!!!
The exhaust through one tube does indeed draw on another tube but this is the least reason and not talked about event because of the meaningless low impact of the draw which you confused with the pressure wave being terminated that induces a negative pressure wave back to the cylinder with the opening event to draw in more air and fuel at the valve overlap.
This is why there is so much about cam event talk and the relationship of the LSA vs cubic inch displacement and valve size couple with cylinder head efficiency and header size and efficiency along with the intake track to compliment the cylinder filling process. This can also be rpm dependent targeted for specific reasons & vehicles for there purpose.
The process of header tube size length coupled with the same idea with the collector are one side of the balance equation.
Thanks!!
What do you do about 5/16 bolt holes in head and 3/8 holes in headers. Do you retap the head? I have 2 sets for318 duster both 3/8 holes. Thanks
I use the bolt size for the head. I find the header is designed for what it's designed to be used on. Thanks!!
That demonstration works on a header,I’ve done it.
Thanks!
That was a very good demonstration you did with the airhose, it was" almost genius " I said almost so dont be getting all big headed 😅😂 jk that will get some views for sure
Great to hear from you as always! Thanks, and my hat size is till the same.... 😂
What I learned from this video....(headers suck)
As humans, we should learn something every day!
You sure you don't have a second job as a physics teacher?
😂 Thanks!!!
Nick at Nicks Garage is over fitting headers 🙀😂. But I love them there been on most of my Mopars . Truth Teller Tim . 👌🇦🇺✌️.