Sorting hat: Hufflepuff or Gryffindor? Neville: which house has the least amount of expectations thrust upon its students? Sorting hat: That's a gutsy question kid, Gryffindor!!!!
@Foolish188 Neville never let Tom tuch him.. Now, in the movies, Tom hugs Draco. The big connection between Tom and Neville is the torture of his parents after Tom failed his mission to kill Harry.. but this was done by Bellatrix and the Carrows. It's why they are at Saint Mongo's.. the movie leaves it out, but the trio comes across him, and Lockheart is in the same hospital.
I'm actually surprised that Dumbledore's chat with Snape from the seventh book isn't mentioned, Dumbledore: "You know, I sometimes think we Sort too soon..." as an example of the hat not being completely trusted by even older people, and students growing up to be far different from what they might seem to become when they're children.
I think its more that an 11 year old is too young to be sorted into a house that will affect the rest of their life. Take Peter Pettigrew. Its possible he WAS fairly brave at 11 hence he got into into Gryffindor, but something happened that broke him along the way or stronger traits were uncovered as he aged, namely selfishness and cowardice. In the end Slytherin could have proven a better fit. If students were chosen in say their fourth year, that would give them time to grow and for the school to help shape them into the wizards and witches they will one day be.
Personally I think it would be best if The students were sorted every single year. Since most students only associate with those in their own house and people change all of the time, especially while growing up. People are also affected by those around them and being surrounded by people with the same flaws as them, can lead to that flaw growing. Like in Gryffindor. The flaws are Arrogance, impulsiveness, hotheadedness and recklessness. (Ron’s detractors often say he should have been a Slytherin because he wants to be great and gets jealous but it’s because of those traits, that he belongs in Gryffindor. Same thing with Sirius and James.)
Honestly, sorting in general is pretty fucking stupid. The idea that Gryffindors are the brave ones? Or Ravenclaw has the dibs on all the "brightest" students? It's as dumb as saying you're star sign is what makes you have certain traits.
Yea I mean I took the quiz at 11 or 12 and got hufflepuff and then at age 14 my best friend was like "no way! You have to retake it!" So I did and I got slytherin that time and every time since
It makes me think would snape have turned to the dark side and if James potter and his friends would have treated him differently if he had been placed in their own house.
Neville proved himself a true Gryffindor in his fifth year, as well. He insisted that he and other members of Dumbledore's Army accompany Harry to the Department of Mysteries, finally earning himself his grandmother's pride.
There were other times where he showed his bravery. Like in 1st year when he stood up to to Harry, Ron and Hermione before they went after the philosophers stone.
I feel like also in Third Year when Neville admitted to McGonagall that he had a list of all the passwords that allowed Sirius Black in the Common Room was a show of bravery as well.
While I don't remember if this was only in the movie or not, being the first Gryffindor student to stand up for dancing lessons (and by his own will, no less, while all others, Harry included, hesitated), showcases a different kind of courage. I believe this was in the _Goblet of Fire_ one? If this one was movie-specific though, it may not have been so good an example as it was behaviour extrapolated from the books rather than a direct source.
I think in Neville’s case, he was brave but lacked confidence. This is demonstrated in the first book when he tried to stop Harry, Hermione and Ron when they were sneaking out.
Neville was definitely brave. He stood up to the trio in the first book. He unflinchingly went to the Ministry in book five and fought against thr Death Eaters like everyone else. He took Harry's place leading Dumbledore's Army despite knowing the consequences and not only killed Nagini but didn't even flinch when Harry asked him to do so in the seventh book. McGonagall knew this as well and even told him this "There is nothing wrong with your work Longbottom aside from a lack of confidence." I think the reason the prophecy could have also meant Neville shows that he had the potential in him just like Harry, that's why he didn't back down from anything.
he needed confidence and companionship to help him be the brave and strong person that he truly was, he struggles with Snape and Umbridge but stood firmly with Harry against the Death Eaters and the Carrows
I think Neville is a bit different, because as far as I recall he used his father's wand without being his true master and only after it breaks in the fifth book is he able to fully use his potential. He was always brave even in his first year ( courage is not having no fear but acting despite ones fear) but I would draw the comparison to Brock lee training with weights all the time and being absolutely insane once nothing else holds him back anymore.
They can choose a different house that aligns with different values Peter pettigrew was sorted into gryffindor because he blended in more with them Hermione was sorted into gryffindor because she valued bravery and friendship more than booksmarts and in gryffindor she would be able to learn that better
Lots of kids have great ambitions. They want to be rich, or astronaughts, or play professional sports, or any number of big dreams. It's about values, and I'm sure some kids who want to be in one house or the other are put where they would thrive better, but I'd think lots of kids are caught between two and get to 'choose' because they would thrive in either house. Harry would have done well in Slytherin, but he would become a very different person. Snape would be allowed to show him favoritism, not that he necessarily would have, and he would be surrounded by people with high motivation and standards instead of Ron's more laid-back attitude. Nature and nurture, really, and in the end it is our choices that define us.
@@havvagokce1441 I see where you’re coming from, but you don’t freeze in the snow because you’re too proud to go inside. If you know one place is not your culture, it is reasonable to refuse that as a possibility
As Dumbledore clearly stated at the end of year feast, it takes great courage to stand up to your enemies, and even greater courage to stand up to your friends. He then awarded the extra points to Neville putting Gryffindor in first place for the house cup. Neville's courage shone through on many occasions. Including and especially, when he took charge in his 7th year to lead and protect other students from the Carrow's and other Death Eaters occupying Hogwarts. All this was BEFORE the final battle of Hogwarts and the destruction of Nagini.
I think the Sorting Hat could not discern in Harry which was the true Harry, and which was the fragment of Tom Riddle's soul residing within Harry. The hat was reading Lord Voldemort, not Harry Potter.
It's all in your head, may be referring to to horcrux residing in Harry's scar. That voldy thing was latently present and that's what the hat locked onto, though Harry had a mind of his own, as he clearly demonstrated.
Harry mentions Slytherin first, so maybe he never planned on putting him into Slytherin at all, but when Harry said, "Not Slytherin," the hat decided to mess with him about it for a second, maybe try to show him something, but still planned on Gryffindor the while time.
I interpreted the hat considering Slytherin to be because of the fact that Harry was a horcrux. Voldermort is the ultimate Slytherin and he was "in his head".
Harry still acted as a leader. Hermione represented Ravenclaw. Ron represented Hufflepuff. All three were intended to represent the other houses but the importance is the choices that they made. This makes the theory much stronger.
I think the actual reason Hermione and Neville ended up in Gryffindor is because it would be much harder to have them in the same room to sneak off on late night adventures with Harry and Ron if each character was in a different house.
The theory I feel is the most likely, is that the Sorting Hat may consider where you want to be placed and what you may value most across the houses, but might also consider where you may need to be. Peter Pettigrew and Neville were both easily frightened characters, and the sorting hat may have put them into Gryffindor to put them into contact with others who would help them grow. Clearly that worked better in one instance than the other It's also suggested in the Books that the Hat might be able to see into the future a bit. so that's food for thought.
It’s quite obvious: the hat is a Horcrux made in secret by GG, which puts the favorites into his house, the “baddies” into Slytherin, and the NPC/extras into the other two. GG secretly runs Hogwarts even from the grave. It explains countless plot holes.
I think that in 4th year or something student should have the option to do the sorting again, to see if the sorting hat changes its opinion and if the student is more fitting into other house
I have come to conclude no long ago after watching the movies and getting into the fandom that the sorting hat, sort base on the 7 years they are going to be there ( Neville show his corage in the 5th year, and Pettigrew betray their friend after school years) and other reason: 1. the blood status, being slytherin mostly pure bloods. 2. If the person insist to want to go into one like Harry.
But they valued blood purity and would if presented the opportunity, they would throw someone under the bus if it benefited them. Remember, in Hallows, they didn't listen to Malfoy anymore. It didn't suit them to have good connections with Draco any longer. It was either Crabbe or Goyle that told him that he and his father "were done".
I suspect that students are a little bit of everything, (eg; 85% Gryffindor and 5% each of the others), and the hat can easily and quickly name your house if you are strongly inclined to one in particular. But some students may be equally suited to more than one house, and the hat might feel the need to prompt them to see which they would prefer.
Peter Pettigrew had basically no bravery, and he still ended up in Gryffindor. Maybe the other Mauraders were sorted into Gryffindor and he wanted to join his friends.
Only works if he was initially friends with Lupin or Sirius. They were supposed to go alphabetically, as they did in the book, so James Potter would have been last to be sorted
No. James and Sirius were only with each other and Snape and Lily while on the train. (If any others were there, Harry would have noticed.) It’s possible that other students joined later but it’s pure speculation.) According to JK Rowling, Peter joined the marauders because Lupin asked Sirius and James to accept him into the group since he felt sorry for Peter due to Peter possibly not having friends. (Similar to How Neville became closer to Harry through Hermione. The first couple books were even building a sort of friendship between Hermione and Neville.)
I've always thought Gryffindor was the least well-defined house in Harry Potter, despite being centre-stage for most of its main characters. Like, being brave? We're talking about children and teenagers, it's absurd, and Hermione is constantely squeaking about danger and not doing this and going to the teachers for that... I think you also used only a handful of the main characters for this theory, and to me it doesn't work because J. K. R. chose to put these characters in their houses because it was convenient for her story-telling, not because it was completely coherent with their personalities. Overall, I'm not sure this theory works, mosty because when you remove the 'I-want-to-be-in-the-same-house-as-famous-Harry-Potter', Gryffindor isn't that much of a great house to be in... Look at how so many people are happy and proud to be sorted in Hufflepuff on Pottermore/Wizarding Wold, while it's the most laughed at and looked down to house in the books!!
Your comment reminded me of a few things…. I am a Gryffindor through and through but when I was young…. When Harry Potter just came out I was afraid mentioning it to my friends because I was afraid being judged that I’m only a Gryffindor because of the book. But years passed and I took many quizzes for fun on many sites and I’m always Gryffindor and never any other houses. I didn’t take it seriously, you know it’s just for fun all these sites, but recently something happened and it got me thinking…. I’m diagnosed with depression and PTSD it sounded like something a Gryffindor would never go through because they’re so brave but looking back on my journey… the way I challenged myself and all difficulties, the way I held myself and my team when I worked as an advocate for mental health… if that wasn’t bravery I don’t know what that would be. How I functioned comparing to my teammate who’s a Hufflepuff was very different, she was always herself and I always put on a mask to perform my job, I thought it was a bad thing to mask myself but then I realized it was a sort of bravery reaction when me and my team needed. At my work, we have all Slytherin and Ravenclaw as well, majority ofc as a health care field were full of Ravenclaws but we do have a few Slytherins and Hufflepuff like I mention, I thought of how we all function and our working styles and it be came clear why were in the houses we are. Mind you, most of us are older and took the tests when Harry just came out and the thought of the houses we were sorted into when we were younger would have been the same house as we are now are amazing. Honestly I just discovered that there aren’t that many Gryffindors as I thought there would be. I thought everyone would love to be in the same house as the main characters but surprisingly I met a lot of Slytherin who are very proud to be in their house. I also have a thought…. What if the hat didn’t sort the houses for you based on your best attributes as we understand ? What if it sorts you as it see you’re fit into as in…. what house would you belong or not belong to the best…. That would explained a lot of cases…. I knew I belong to Gryffindor and not other houses that was one of the facts I’d feel completely out of place with my personality with other houses, even in real life I often hang out with a wilder group of people and I’ll be the mildest one but I feel belong more than when I’m with a bunch of Hufflepuffs and turn out to be the crazy one there. Imagine if Naville was sorted into other houses, his growth would be different. Peter needed Gryffindor not because he belong there but he won’t belong or fit in any other houses, he needed peers like true Gryffindors to shape him into a better person, sadly he chose a dark path. Hermione shouldn’t be in Ravenclaw because she already a bookworm but what she wanted the most was to learn everything about magical world… what good would that be if she stuck with Ravenclaw ? I believe in sorting hat… we can’t dismissed the fact that it gave Godric’s sword to Harry and Naville when they needed it most. The hat knows… not only your best but your worst characteristic so it knows what you need the most and how to gain it.
It depends on how you define "brave". Confidence and fearlessness are not the same as bravery. If that were the case Malfoy would have been in Gryffindor. IMHO bravery is being scared right down to your toenails about something that has to be done and having the courage to do it anyway. This is why Ron and Neville were sorted into Gryffindor.
My Mum got sorted into Hufflepuff and was very pleased. I believe that the Pottermore test is essentially random. (One of the questions is literally "Left or Right?" Might as well just flip a coin!) I took the test twice, (years apart) and got two different results. First Slytherin, then Hufflepuff, neither of which is a good fit. (I'm not ambitious or hardworking!) I'm a Ravenclaw through and through.
Iris.holmes, your comment betrays your lack of understanding on what bravery is. Bravery isn't the lack of fear, it's courageous behavior. Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyways. Is Hermione scared of breaking rules? Yes. Does she break those rules? Yes. That's bravery by its very definition.
I think the Hat sorted Neville into Gryffindor because of his tragic backstory and what Slytherin's crowd did to his parents. Godric Gryffindor would have picked Neville to put him on the path to get revenge.
“The sorting hat has a ability you analyze the mind deeper than we can ever imagine” I love this quote because in one of the hats yearly songs it outright says that perhaps sorting them and dividing them has done more harm than good. And given all the minds it has looked into, is it right? Is the hat stuck doing a job that it knows causes inevitable strife?
I always had headcanon that the hat also uses divination magic. Even if it's far in the future, Neville after all directly refused Voldemort in his face and destroyed a basilisk (using the Gryffindor relic no less). He also routinely stands up for what is right throughout the series, including getting petrified in the common room and joining any major battle he can.
I think the mere fact of Neville arguing with The Sorting Hat was a very Gryffindor thing to do. Neville was always brave, but lacked confidence in himself. His Gran made Neville feel like he had to be exactly like his parents, particularly his dad. Gran didn't get Neville his own wand, she gave him his dad's wand. Child Neville had some big shoes to fill. The Sorting Hat understood this, and knew Neville would be up to the task when the time was right.
Seems more like it acknowledges what you're best at but strongly considers what the kid wants. The idea of the hat stalling to try to force kids to ask for a house filled with no one except people who ask for it is ridiculous.
In his final year at Hogwarts Neville also stood up against the Carrows and their tyrannical rule over the students. That took bravery in and of itself. He stood up because he saw that it gave people hope when Harry did it. "Blimey Neville, there's a time and a place for developing a smart mouth-" Ron Weasley, impressed and in awe in their reunion, through the tunnel from Mr Aberforth's pub to the Room of Requirement in Book 7.
I understand it to be that the houses are separated by what an individual "values" and not necessarily by what characteristics an individual has or displays. It is often the case that your values will be supported by your own actions, but I think in Neville's case, he strongly admires and values bravery BECAUSE he struggled to have it when he was young. But being surrounded by strong and brave people encouraged him over time to develop the characteristic and become the man he wanted to be. The same can be said of Petter Pettigrew. He valued bravery because he lacked it, and in the end, his fear won out, leading him to abandon his values and live in misery for the rest of his life.
The Hat clearly realised the hidden potential in Neville and sensed that how great he could be in life . And also one of your videos mentioned that his grandmother probably placed some charms on him to keep him out of trouble , given what happened to his parents . So the Hat probably realised that Neville's outward nervousness was not a part of his true nature and sorted him into Gryffindor to help him prove himself.
Would be interesting to see an alternate universe story where the sorting hat doesn't consider your choices and puts Harry in Slytheryn. Could be so different, Harry's darker side gets nourished, he doesn't have close friends, hates Ron and Hermione, cant stop Voldemort from entering his mind in the 5th book and eventually loses to him, Voldemort wins and the world falls in to darkness. All because the soting hat did not value an individual's choice over its own evaluation. It's probably already been done tbh..
I think a more likely consideration with Nevel is that he wanted to be like his parents. Deep down he wanted to stand up against the Beatrixs of the world like mom and dad.
Dumbledore in The Chamber of Secrets: “Only a true Gryffindor would be able to pull the sword of Gryffindor out of the Sorting Hat.” Neville is The Deathly Hallows: Pulls the sword of Gryffindor out of the Sorting Hat.
Better theory is that it doesn't actually matter what house you get sorted into as far as what kind of person you will become. The qualities the hat "reads" in the kids are generic and it just evenly sorts out the number of students while appearing random.
Another instance that should be considered when arguing that the hat always makes the right call is Peter Pettigrew. I believe it was Harry who asked the hat why it placed someone like Wormtail into Gryffindor when he betrayed everyone he knew the instant he thought it was for his own benefit when such an action would be much more in line with Slytherin house. The hat counters thought citing Peter's death as proof he was a Gryffindor. That moment of hesitation that caused his silver hand to strangle him in response to not immediately following Voldemort's orders is evidence that Peter always had the qualities of a Gryffindor student. By taking that brief infinitesimal amount of time to wonder if he should kill Harry, Peter showed that just because he was a coward, he in fact did not truly embody the ambition and cunning of always seeking the next opportunity to enrich himself.
rowling controversies aside i would love an alternate version of the books where he gets into slytherin and actually does become friends with draco. just to see. i wonder if draco would have been a bad influence on harry or if harry would have been a good influence on draco. draco might have turned harry into a bully by helping him get revenge on dudley and using his fathers influence to make sure harry stays out of trouble for it. and thats not even getting into the potential for harry to become even worse then voldemort over time. image a version of the series where harry becomes a death eater and both voldemort and harry make the unbreakable vow not the harm each other to try and defeat the prophecy. Harry Potter What Ifs when? :)
Somehow or another the hat has to take into account distribution. Say a particular class is particularly skewed to the ambitious or intelligent. There’d be an overpopulous of slytherins and ravenclaws. And for house cup and quidditch I think it would be unfair not to have such distribution. So to a certain extent it might just infer qualities that may or may not be present for the sanctity of splitting things up equally.
What exactly is the Sorting Hat? It has a mind but you can't see its brain. My fan theory is that Gryffindor had trouble concentrating and difficulty using his magic. That is why he got the goblins to make him a magic sword. And he wore the hat so that it could help him concentrate. Then Gryffindor made it intelligent, possibly his ghost was bound to it or it was his Horcrux. At the end the Sorting Hat realized that its method of sorting was what caused most of the problems with the Wizarding World.
Consider that the Hat has access to the school leadership files in Dumbledore's office. It hangs around all year listening into conversations, being fed the various staff members' thoughts about the new enrollments coming at the start of the next year. While it might not know everything about all the first years, it certainly has significant knowledge ahead of time about the most talked about of them.
Honestly, they should have just been sorted at random. That's how my school did it. Unless you had an older sibling, then you automatically got put in the same house.
My personal head conon. It is known that the prophecy could have been either Harry or Neville, and Riddle basically chose Harry to be the recipient. However, what if the prophecy actually intended for both Harry and Neville even after Riddle chose it to be Harry. A lot of the events in the books could not happen without Neville there in the background. The prophecy never truly stopped referring to both of them.
My pet theory was that most kids simply accept what the hat says..."Can't argue with a Hat!" The kids with some kind of future are more likely to have a strong preference, and inform the Hat in some way where they want to go. It might be innocent as a kid wishing "I want to go to the same House as my friends" or "Not Slytherin" like Harry did. Harry is told that he can 'override' the Hats choice, but how common is that knowledge?
I actually thought it worked this way from the start. Completely agree with your theory, and makes the most sense. Nice to see it all reasoned and laid out clearly though, complete with all of the examples one would wonder about.
I do think it sorts you where ever you want to go. Like why would the hat be stalling at times, if it can make own decisions? It just states your choice out loud once you decide, consciously or not.
I'm just wondering about something. Harry had a horcrux in him and a horcrux defends itself. If the sorting hat uses legilimens to delve into the deepest depths of the mind, why didn't the horcrux cause a backlash like the locket did when anyone used a spell against it? Everybody talks about how the hat could detect it and that's why it wanted to put him in Slytherin. Wouldn't the horcrux take being discovered as a threat? And another thing. If Harry was a horcrux, why didn't any harmful spells cast against him not create a backlash? It seemed like only Voldemorts spells ever backfired from the horcrux. Why wouldn't it do that with stupefy or duelling spells used by Malfoy and others? These questions have been stuck in my head for years and only get reinforced every time I watch the movies or reread the books.
No, you can't will your way to your house reliably. There are only so many beds in each house, and they need to be occupied in roughly equal measure. The hat is a servant of the headmaster and need to help him uphold order.
I'd steal the hat and take it on an adventure around the world blackmailing wizards. "Gimme two grand or the hat tells me about your weird sex habits, he has those yeah hat?" (Hat nods vigorously) "Real weird, he's friends with Dumbledore's brother"
My running theory on the sorting has is it runs through your mind and identifies your core traits as you grew that didn’t change and based on those values it determines which house they would most flourish in. Slytherin would’ve pushed Harry’s natural talents to their extreme while Gryffindor pushes both his talents and his heart which is what he needed to beat Voldemort. Nevel grew to be someone worth fearing by being but in Gryffindor and the rest grew into what they needed to be for their lifetime since it was destined that Harry’s battle with Voldemort was gonna happen
I always though the reason the sorting hats wanted him to be in slytherin was because it was also reading that part of moldy voldy that was insode harry as a horcrux.
Neville has one of the best character developments of all times. He starts out insecure, self-conscious and fearful. But he overcomes his insecurity in year 5 the moment he learns Bellatrix has escaped from Azkaban. He proves himself in the battle at the ministry. After that, he gets his own wand, a wand that chose him (instead of re-using his father's wand, which is destroyed in the battle). Then he is really improving and becomes kind of badass by year 7. The hat knew he was held back by his father's wand and by being told that he lacked talent and bravery.
I think that if this were true, then Gryffindor would be the smallest house by far. Most British wizards wouldn't question the Hat as it's been an institution for generations. I doubt that a large number of 11- and 12-year-old kids would _dare_ question it.
I think it's all just a metaphor for the fact that whatever you have inside you, however your personality, it all comea down to your choices. Your choices define you, not your nature.
in teh case of neville, he displays bravery in the 1st movie by standing up to his fellow peers harry rona dn hermonie despite being outn umbered and out skilled. he demonstrates this in several instances throughout the series.
Going along with seeing into your head and knowing your true values, I think your family and what’s in your blood tends to have some sway on where you’re placed
Magic is a wild thing . The hat constantly is reading the students and houses abilities and attributes. Mabey the hat without even knowing it consciously put all the people together through fate . For the coming battle of their very lives . The Battle of Hogwarts. Edit: and it hat stalled on Nevil . He cut Nigini down and was pivitol in the battle.
I don't think the hat decides for you. I think the hat by means of magic is capable of discerning your true choice. Even if at the moment you are unsure. I think everyone ultimately chooses their own house whether or not they realize it. I don't think the hat is truly measuring your abilities or character. It's more like that coin flip decision trick where it isn't about which side the coin lands on but how you feel about it. That better explains the stalls and the easy decisions. Malfoy's mind was made up. Neville, Hermione, Ron, and Harry were all unsure.
How would the piece of Voldemort's soul inside Harry have affected the Sorting Hat's evaluation of him? Could that have been the reason that the Sorting Hat first thought that Harry was supposed to go into Slytherin?
basically, this theory is that the sorting hat cheates when he wants a student in gryffindor. the truth? Rowling thinking "I don't f*cking care about personality traits. I will put each character where I need them to be to do what I want them to do" most of the characters are sorted in the wrong house. Draco acts nothing like cunning and his greater ambition is to get everything because of his blood status. Hermione, and Lily, is more ravenclaw than Rowena herself. Neville couldn't be more hufflepuff even if he tried. the only brave act he did was helping a friend (Harry) and fulfilling a promise (to Harry). while both things need courage, they are done due to friendship (hufflepuff's main trait) Harry could be in any house but him not wanting to be in slytherin is far from a a reason to put him in gryffindor. if nothing else, it would prove he's a hufflepuff that values friendship over power and is scared to be surrounded by the children of death eaters. I personally would put Harry in Hufflepuff with Neville. what harry values the most is friendship. just look at his first friends in the canon. Hagrid was the first that showed him kindness and support, Ron was his first friend his age and Hermione a girl he rescued and she paid taking the blame so harry wouldn't be in trouble for rescuing her. by the way, do you believe Draco minions even know what ambition or cunning mean? that being said, I doubt they have the trait of any house.
Imagine being placed in a house which you find out you do not like your peers, or even find them insufferable. It must be goddamn hell for at least those students.
One thing to note, Harry had voldamort, or at least a part of him in his head. Hence the confusion. The scar Harry bears is or was, a failed hororcrux. Meaning the traits the hat seen that said slitherin were not actually Harry's, but voldamort's.
Your comment at the end of this video debunks the theory in this video.... The flaw of the sorting hat is that it places you in the house that has the quality that you value the most. Which isn't always the quality that you have the most, if any of. This flaw in the sorting hat ruined Snape's life and allowed Wormtail to hide his true character.
Neville reminds me of Godfrey in Dad's Army. Godfrey who was so soft spoken, polite and seemingly simple that nobody expected that he'd have thrown himself unarmed into the battlefields of the first world war and earned medals for bravery despite being a pacifist.
Wow fantastic video, so insightful. I think perhaps due also to the effects of the prophecy it is divined that Neville would become a Gryffindor, the potential chosen one, an instrument of light in the battle against the dark Lord, a weapon of Fate, willed to Gryffindor to become a man of courage and an integral colour upon the bristles of the grand creators brush
I interpret it as the hat looking into their mind and checking wich of the house values is the highest, even if the person doesn't know it yet. Obviously people can have all of those values in them, but only the top one decides the house. It explains why it took so long on Hermione. Her thirst for knowledge must have been a really close second after her courage.
maybe the houses should be more than what the students represents in them, by sharing their goals with the others, cause if they choose not to (like Slytherin) they'll become stale and stagnant
I... don't think it's as simple as willing it. Not everyone is going to challenge a mind-reading hat, if the hat never actually proposes Gryffindor, it implies the house would be far smaller than the rest. I feel like Neville's case is proof of that, and your take is... fair but a bit of a leap. Harry thinks (and later tells his son) that picking Gryffindor is enough because "it takes your choices into account" and then Neville defies this by not getting Hufflepuff. It's obviously a bit of both. A part of it is what you value, a prt of it is what you ARE, a part of it is what you want, and so on.
Didn't Neville prove himmelfartsdag a Gryffindor already in the first book? He stood up against his friends and for that he got 10 points for his house. This is an argument for a bravery existing in him from the start.
I believe that the students choice is not a factor unless the student already displays traits of that house so had draco chosen Gryffindor it would not have mattered because he never showed true bravery the main quality of a Gryffindor student
I think the Hat does also take family history into account, as it hardly touched Draco's head before declaring "Slytherin!" and to Ron it comments: "Ah! Another Weasley! I know where to put you. Gryffindor!" Hermione however, being a Muggle-born with no family history, and clearly Ravenclaw material, but lacking even an ounce of shame, always speaking her mind, made her fearless after a fashion, thus making her a tough choice for the Hat to nail down. As for Harry, Sirius, Lupin, and Snape all comment on how much Harry physically takes after James, and Snape also sees Harry as a behavioral copy of his father, which the Hat no doubt also saw, along with the remnant of Lily's Love Protection, and the portion of Voldermort's soul. This makeup effectively gave Harry "three powerful wizarding parents", thus he did indeed possess great power/talent, and together with Voldermort's soul, would have excelled in Slytherin. Yet Harry refused Slytherin, thus the only aspects of Harry left to consider were James and Lily, making Harry belong to "Gryffindor!" by a wide margin.
@spud69g Voldermort's sudden disappearance coinciding with Harry's miraculous survival caused several people to suspect that Voldermort might have indwelt the boy, or Harry had absorbed a part of the Dark Lord’s essence in some way. Before Harry's first year, the Death Eaters believed that Voldermort may have shed his original body, transferring it to Harry and taking over the body, and while Dumbledore doesn't seem to believe this to be the case, he can't rule out the possibility until he sees Harry's behavior in his first year. Harry's parceltongue, and possibly the Hat's report to Dumbledore, revealed that while Harry was certainly not Voldermort reincarnate, Harry did receive a portion of Voldermort in the attack. I don't believe Dumbledore was considering, or even aware of, the horcruxes this early, rather seeing a part of Voldermort in Harry, and the diary, is what led Dumbledore to investigate Voldermort's possible use of horcruxes.
Replace the Sorting Hat's magic with technology, and remove the technocrats (who use it to weed them out), and Gryffindor becomes the House for the 'Divergent'/ those with virtues typical of multiple Houses/Factions.
Based upon that the sorting hat must be able to enter the prospective being, surely it could detect the portion of. Voldemort overlayed onto Harry Potter and should have immediately alerted everyone as soon as it was detected. Just because Harry did not know, does not mean that the Hat would not know, especially since in the unwitting creation of this horcrux leaving what was left of Voldemort as a semi-fetal existence.
Nobody can will themselves or willed themselves into Gryffindor. The logic in this strategy is flawed because the hat considers the life path: past, present, and future in choosing. The hat considers "input" from the students, but it already knows the origin of that input, so it's not "swayed" by the input, but reminded that the "input" confirms the choice it was already going to make
Lily Evans was sorted to gryffindor as soon as the hat touched her head, though. Doesn’t seem like the hat had much time to propose a different house, or “test” her into making a conscious choice in any way.
I think you still keep looking at the hat as a cold mechanical device, not a sapient being. Even if it knows all about a student's traits, it still considers things outside the "algorithm". What the student desires. How will they feel during their school time, not just what they'll achieve. What they like, not just what they're good at. Harry-Slytherin, Hermione-Ravenclaw are the clear algorithmic choices of skillset -> matching training profile. It's only after reviewing goals, desires, fears, all the things surrounding the consequences of the choice that a better match is made.
the sorting hat never explicitly said it was gonna put Harry in Slytherin. It simply said Harry COULD do well there. so it’s not even sure about that. And it’s certainly not the same as saying “Oh I was gonna put you in Slytherin but now I’ve changed my mind”. Plus: the Sorting Hat only mentions Slytherin because Harry does so first. It’s completely possible that even without Harrys’ “Not Slytherin” wish, he still would have ended up in Gryffindor. Actually I think it’s most likely. Just look at what the Sorting Hat is mentioning before Harry brings up Slytherin: courage, a good mind, a lot of talent and a thirst to prove yourself. To me this sounds like the blueprint for a Gryffindor. And just to be clear “a thirst to prove yourself" is not the same as ambition. it comes closer to Harrys “playing the hero” side, which is the opposite of what any self-respecting Slytherin would do. So no, I don’t think there’s any scenario that would have ended with Harry in Slytherin. Which is not to say the Sorting Hat doesn’t consider your wishes. But that’s not the same as following those wishes blindly. More importantly, I think the hat also considers the reasons for those wishes. In Nevilles case it was lack of confidence and fear of embarrassment that led him to wish for Hufflepuff, in part due to living in the shadow of his hero parents. something he needed to get over no matter which house he ended up in. But still a tricky question which house would be best suited to help with that, which is why it took so long. Last but not least: just because Sprout happens to be head of Hufflepuff AND a Herbology professor does not mean Herbology is connected to Hufflepuff.
the sorting had will also have to put students where there is room after the houses start to fill up. so if huffle puff was full then gryfindor for nevel and as raven claw was filling up it took hermione's choisce into account then harry was after so since slitherine was really full the sorting had would have taken harry's request. also dumbledore would have been able to talk to the sorting hat previous to selection day and help it decide where to place each student as he was the gardian of the hat as the head master
I always personally thought that there was a lot of factors that went into it because obviously each house can only let so many people in each year it's not even houses or houses that have no students at all plus four most students what are the ones that are not muggle-born the hat knew their parents
Sorting hat: Hufflepuff or Gryffindor?
Neville: which house has the least amount of expectations thrust upon its students?
Sorting hat: That's a gutsy question kid, Gryffindor!!!!
That's... absolutely terrifying.
Hey, the hat is never wrong, or so it claims for itself lol
I am pretty sure that Neville is the Heir to Gryffindor. It took real bravery to let Voldemort hug him so that he could kill the last Horcrux.
@Foolish188 Neville never let Tom tuch him.. Now, in the movies, Tom hugs Draco. The big connection between Tom and Neville is the torture of his parents after Tom failed his mission to kill Harry.. but this was done by Bellatrix and the Carrows. It's why they are at Saint Mongo's.. the movie leaves it out, but the trio comes across him, and Lockheart is in the same hospital.
I'm actually surprised that Dumbledore's chat with Snape from the seventh book isn't mentioned, Dumbledore: "You know, I sometimes think we Sort too soon..." as an example of the hat not being completely trusted by even older people, and students growing up to be far different from what they might seem to become when they're children.
I think its more that an 11 year old is too young to be sorted into a house that will affect the rest of their life.
Take Peter Pettigrew. Its possible he WAS fairly brave at 11 hence he got into into Gryffindor, but something happened that broke him along the way or stronger traits were uncovered as he aged, namely selfishness and cowardice. In the end Slytherin could have proven a better fit.
If students were chosen in say their fourth year, that would give them time to grow and for the school to help shape them into the wizards and witches they will one day be.
Personally I think it would be best if The students were sorted every single year. Since most students only associate with those in their own house and people change all of the time, especially while growing up.
People are also affected by those around them and being surrounded by people with the same flaws as them, can lead to that flaw growing.
Like in Gryffindor. The flaws are Arrogance, impulsiveness, hotheadedness and recklessness. (Ron’s detractors often say he should have been a Slytherin because he wants to be great and gets jealous but it’s because of those traits, that he belongs in Gryffindor. Same thing with Sirius and James.)
Honestly, sorting in general is pretty fucking stupid. The idea that Gryffindors are the brave ones? Or Ravenclaw has the dibs on all the "brightest" students? It's as dumb as saying you're star sign is what makes you have certain traits.
Yea I mean I took the quiz at 11 or 12 and got hufflepuff and then at age 14 my best friend was like "no way! You have to retake it!" So I did and I got slytherin that time and every time since
It makes me think would snape have turned to the dark side and if James potter and his friends would have treated him differently if he had been placed in their own house.
Neville proved himself a true Gryffindor in his fifth year, as well. He insisted that he and other members of Dumbledore's Army accompany Harry to the Department of Mysteries, finally earning himself his grandmother's pride.
There were other times where he showed his bravery. Like in 1st year when he stood up to to Harry, Ron and Hermione before they went after the philosophers stone.
I feel like also in Third Year when Neville admitted to McGonagall that he had a list of all the passwords that allowed Sirius Black in the Common Room was a show of bravery as well.
While I don't remember if this was only in the movie or not, being the first Gryffindor student to stand up for dancing lessons (and by his own will, no less, while all others, Harry included, hesitated), showcases a different kind of courage. I believe this was in the _Goblet of Fire_ one? If this one was movie-specific though, it may not have been so good an example as it was behaviour extrapolated from the books rather than a direct source.
I think in Neville’s case, he was brave but lacked confidence. This is demonstrated in the first book when he tried to stop Harry, Hermione and Ron when they were sneaking out.
Neville was definitely brave. He stood up to the trio in the first book. He unflinchingly went to the Ministry in book five and fought against thr Death Eaters like everyone else. He took Harry's place leading Dumbledore's Army despite knowing the consequences and not only killed Nagini but didn't even flinch when Harry asked him to do so in the seventh book. McGonagall knew this as well and even told him this
"There is nothing wrong with your work Longbottom aside from a lack of confidence."
I think the reason the prophecy could have also meant Neville shows that he had the potential in him just like Harry, that's why he didn't back down from anything.
Nature vs nurture, nurture won lmao
he needed confidence and companionship to help him be the brave and strong person that he truly was, he struggles with Snape and Umbridge but stood firmly with Harry against the Death Eaters and the Carrows
I think Neville is a bit different, because as far as I recall he used his father's wand without being his true master and only after it breaks in the fifth book is he able to fully use his potential. He was always brave even in his first year ( courage is not having no fear but acting despite ones fear) but I would draw the comparison to Brock lee training with weights all the time and being absolutely insane once nothing else holds him back anymore.
@@C-Unit97 just like I said, nurture won against nature.
I wonder how many students who would be naturally Slytherin, but didn't go there due to the reputation of the Slytherin went to another house instead.
They can choose a different house that aligns with different values
Peter pettigrew was sorted into gryffindor because he blended in more with them
Hermione was sorted into gryffindor because she valued bravery and friendship more than booksmarts and in gryffindor she would be able to learn that better
That action, trying to convince the hat to sort them somewhere else, is a very syletherin thing to do too.
@@havvagokce1441 why do you see it that way?
Lots of kids have great ambitions. They want to be rich, or astronaughts, or play professional sports, or any number of big dreams. It's about values, and I'm sure some kids who want to be in one house or the other are put where they would thrive better, but I'd think lots of kids are caught between two and get to 'choose' because they would thrive in either house. Harry would have done well in Slytherin, but he would become a very different person. Snape would be allowed to show him favoritism, not that he necessarily would have, and he would be surrounded by people with high motivation and standards instead of Ron's more laid-back attitude. Nature and nurture, really, and in the end it is our choices that define us.
@@havvagokce1441 I see where you’re coming from, but you don’t freeze in the snow because you’re too proud to go inside. If you know one place is not your culture, it is reasonable to refuse that as a possibility
As Dumbledore clearly stated at the end of year feast, it takes great courage to stand up to your enemies, and even greater courage to stand up to your friends. He then awarded the extra points to Neville putting Gryffindor in first place for the house cup. Neville's courage shone through on many occasions. Including and especially, when he took charge in his 7th year to lead and protect other students from the Carrow's and other Death Eaters occupying Hogwarts. All this was BEFORE the final battle of Hogwarts and the destruction of Nagini.
I think the Sorting Hat could not discern in Harry which was the true Harry, and which was the fragment of Tom Riddle's soul residing within Harry. The hat was reading Lord Voldemort, not Harry Potter.
It's all in your head, may be referring to to horcrux residing in Harry's scar.
That voldy thing was latently present and that's what the hat locked onto, though Harry had a mind of his own, as he clearly demonstrated.
Also, keep in mind Harry said "Not Slytherin" before hat even mentioned it.
I thought that was canon
@@Val.Kyrie. Hmmm....might be. I knew the idea was not original with me when I posted it.
The most impressive magic of the sorting hat might just be the fact that it never seems to cause magical lice outbreaks.
And I just imagined magical lice 😮😂
the hat eats the lice
Harry mentions Slytherin first, so maybe he never planned on putting him into Slytherin at all, but when Harry said, "Not Slytherin," the hat decided to mess with him about it for a second, maybe try to show him something, but still planned on Gryffindor the while time.
That’s what I’ve thought, just didn’t remember if that was a movie thing or in the books as well
I interpreted the hat considering Slytherin to be because of the fact that Harry was a horcrux. Voldermort is the ultimate Slytherin and he was "in his head".
Harry still acted as a leader. Hermione represented Ravenclaw. Ron represented Hufflepuff. All three were intended to represent the other houses but the importance is the choices that they made. This makes the theory much stronger.
And they became heroes @@CobraCooKais
I think the actual reason Hermione and Neville ended up in Gryffindor is because it would be much harder to have them in the same room to sneak off on late night adventures with Harry and Ron if each character was in a different house.
The theory I feel is the most likely, is that the Sorting Hat may consider where you want to be placed and what you may value most across the houses, but might also consider where you may need to be. Peter Pettigrew and Neville were both easily frightened characters, and the sorting hat may have put them into Gryffindor to put them into contact with others who would help them grow. Clearly that worked better in one instance than the other
It's also suggested in the Books that the Hat might be able to see into the future a bit. so that's food for thought.
Poor Weasley had no choice but to be a Gryffindor, the hat recognized him from the hair alone 😂 and with no deliberation placed him in Gryffindor 😂😂
It’s quite obvious: the hat is a Horcrux made in secret by GG, which puts the favorites into his house, the “baddies” into Slytherin, and the NPC/extras into the other two. GG secretly runs Hogwarts even from the grave. It explains countless plot holes.
I think that in 4th year or something student should have the option to do the sorting again, to see if the sorting hat changes its opinion and if the student is more fitting into other house
"What house were you in?"
"I was Hufflepuff-Ravenclaw, but my friend was double Gryffondor"
The hat will never admit a mistake, so the sorting stands😂
@@ninjalectualx should be like that tbh
I have come to conclude no long ago after watching the movies and getting into the fandom that the sorting hat, sort base on the 7 years they are going to be there ( Neville show his corage in the 5th year, and Pettigrew betray their friend after school years) and other reason:
1. the blood status, being slytherin mostly pure bloods.
2. If the person insist to want to go into one like Harry.
Its believed the hat was an enchanment from ALL of the founders I thought.
Correct. That is what they said in the video. It was Gryffindor's idea to combine all of their magics to make the hat.
Those two goons that hung out with Malfoy certainly lacked The ambition & talent for slitherine ?
But they valued blood purity and would if presented the opportunity, they would throw someone under the bus if it benefited them. Remember, in Hallows, they didn't listen to Malfoy anymore.
It didn't suit them to have good connections with Draco any longer.
It was either Crabbe or Goyle that told him that he and his father "were done".
Should have been Hufflepuff. They are coming relief.😂
They were from Vassal families to the Malfoys. Such students were something like servants to the scion of that Lord.
I suspect that students are a little bit of everything, (eg; 85% Gryffindor and 5% each of the others), and the hat can easily and quickly name your house if you are strongly inclined to one in particular.
But some students may be equally suited to more than one house, and the hat might feel the need to prompt them to see which they would prefer.
Peter Pettigrew had basically no bravery, and he still ended up in Gryffindor. Maybe the other Mauraders were sorted into Gryffindor and he wanted to join his friends.
Only works if he was initially friends with Lupin or Sirius. They were supposed to go alphabetically, as they did in the book, so James Potter would have been last to be sorted
No.
James and Sirius were only with each other and Snape and Lily while on the train. (If any others were there, Harry would have noticed.)
It’s possible that other students joined later but it’s pure speculation.)
According to JK Rowling, Peter joined the marauders because Lupin asked Sirius and James to accept him into the group since he felt sorry for Peter due to Peter possibly not having friends. (Similar to How Neville became closer to Harry through Hermione. The first couple books were even building a sort of friendship between Hermione and Neville.)
but Pettigrew just didn't belong in any of the other houses and he may have had some slight potential for bravery but he never chose to be brave
Pettigrew was a coward who probably wished he was brave. That could be why the hat put him in Gryffindor.
@@stevegallo8483I can see it. It'd be like a coward buying a gun thinking they can stand and fight but when the time comes they run with everyone else
I've always thought Gryffindor was the least well-defined house in Harry Potter, despite being centre-stage for most of its main characters. Like, being brave? We're talking about children and teenagers, it's absurd, and Hermione is constantely squeaking about danger and not doing this and going to the teachers for that... I think you also used only a handful of the main characters for this theory, and to me it doesn't work because J. K. R. chose to put these characters in their houses because it was convenient for her story-telling, not because it was completely coherent with their personalities.
Overall, I'm not sure this theory works, mosty because when you remove the 'I-want-to-be-in-the-same-house-as-famous-Harry-Potter', Gryffindor isn't that much of a great house to be in... Look at how so many people are happy and proud to be sorted in Hufflepuff on Pottermore/Wizarding Wold, while it's the most laughed at and looked down to house in the books!!
Your comment reminded me of a few things…. I am a Gryffindor through and through but when I was young…. When Harry Potter just came out I was afraid mentioning it to my friends because I was afraid being judged that I’m only a Gryffindor because of the book. But years passed and I took many quizzes for fun on many sites and I’m always Gryffindor and never any other houses. I didn’t take it seriously, you know it’s just for fun all these sites, but recently something happened and it got me thinking…. I’m diagnosed with depression and PTSD it sounded like something a Gryffindor would never go through because they’re so brave but looking back on my journey… the way I challenged myself and all difficulties, the way I held myself and my team when I worked as an advocate for mental health… if that wasn’t bravery I don’t know what that would be. How I functioned comparing to my teammate who’s a Hufflepuff was very different, she was always herself and I always put on a mask to perform my job, I thought it was a bad thing to mask myself but then I realized it was a sort of bravery reaction when me and my team needed.
At my work, we have all Slytherin and Ravenclaw as well, majority ofc as a health care field were full of Ravenclaws but we do have a few Slytherins and Hufflepuff like I mention, I thought of how we all function and our working styles and it be came clear why were in the houses we are. Mind you, most of us are older and took the tests when Harry just came out and the thought of the houses we were sorted into when we were younger would have been the same house as we are now are amazing. Honestly I just discovered that there aren’t that many Gryffindors as I thought there would be. I thought everyone would love to be in the same house as the main characters but surprisingly I met a lot of Slytherin who are very proud to be in their house.
I also have a thought…. What if the hat didn’t sort the houses for you based on your best attributes as we understand ? What if it sorts you as it see you’re fit into as in…. what house would you belong or not belong to the best…. That would explained a lot of cases…. I knew I belong to Gryffindor and not other houses that was one of the facts I’d feel completely out of place with my personality with other houses, even in real life I often hang out with a wilder group of people and I’ll be the mildest one but I feel belong more than when I’m with a bunch of Hufflepuffs and turn out to be the crazy one there. Imagine if Naville was sorted into other houses, his growth would be different. Peter needed Gryffindor not because he belong there but he won’t belong or fit in any other houses, he needed peers like true Gryffindors to shape him into a better person, sadly he chose a dark path. Hermione shouldn’t be in Ravenclaw because she already a bookworm but what she wanted the most was to learn everything about magical world… what good would that be if she stuck with Ravenclaw ? I believe in sorting hat… we can’t dismissed the fact that it gave Godric’s sword to Harry and Naville when they needed it most. The hat knows… not only your best but your worst characteristic so it knows what you need the most and how to gain it.
It depends on how you define "brave". Confidence and fearlessness are not the same as bravery. If that were the case Malfoy would have been in Gryffindor. IMHO bravery is being scared right down to your toenails about something that has to be done and having the courage to do it anyway. This is why Ron and Neville were sorted into Gryffindor.
I think you underestimate the amount of situations that require bravery that young people go through even through their teen years.
My Mum got sorted into Hufflepuff and was very pleased.
I believe that the Pottermore test is essentially random. (One of the questions is literally "Left or Right?" Might as well just flip a coin!)
I took the test twice, (years apart) and got two different results. First Slytherin, then Hufflepuff, neither of which is a good fit. (I'm not ambitious or hardworking!)
I'm a Ravenclaw through and through.
Iris.holmes, your comment betrays your lack of understanding on what bravery is. Bravery isn't the lack of fear, it's courageous behavior. Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyways. Is Hermione scared of breaking rules? Yes. Does she break those rules? Yes. That's bravery by its very definition.
I can just imagine the hat having multiple different voices in his head its probably having like 7 conversations at once
I'm confused. Dumbledore was killed before Harry was an adult, so how could he have told Dumbledore as an adult.
I think the Hat sorted Neville into Gryffindor because of his tragic backstory and what Slytherin's crowd did to his parents. Godric Gryffindor would have picked Neville to put him on the path to get revenge.
“The sorting hat has a ability you analyze the mind deeper than we can ever imagine”
I love this quote because in one of the hats yearly songs it outright says that perhaps sorting them and dividing them has done more harm than good.
And given all the minds it has looked into, is it right? Is the hat stuck doing a job that it knows causes inevitable strife?
I always had headcanon that the hat also uses divination magic. Even if it's far in the future, Neville after all directly refused Voldemort in his face and destroyed a basilisk (using the Gryffindor relic no less).
He also routinely stands up for what is right throughout the series, including getting petrified in the common room and joining any major battle he can.
I think the mere fact of Neville arguing with The Sorting Hat was a very Gryffindor thing to do. Neville was always brave, but lacked confidence in himself. His Gran made Neville feel like he had to be exactly like his parents, particularly his dad. Gran didn't get Neville his own wand, she gave him his dad's wand. Child Neville had some big shoes to fill. The Sorting Hat understood this, and knew Neville would be up to the task when the time was right.
Seems more like it acknowledges what you're best at but strongly considers what the kid wants. The idea of the hat stalling to try to force kids to ask for a house filled with no one except people who ask for it is ridiculous.
Remember, Neville won points for Griffendor for standing up to his friends. He was brave.
kid: "I'm a villain"
hat: "Slytherin"
In his final year at Hogwarts Neville also stood up against the Carrows and their tyrannical rule over the students. That took bravery in and of itself. He stood up because he saw that it gave people hope when Harry did it.
"Blimey Neville, there's a time and a place for developing a smart mouth-" Ron Weasley, impressed and in awe in their reunion, through the tunnel from Mr Aberforth's pub to the Room of Requirement in Book 7.
I understand it to be that the houses are separated by what an individual "values" and not necessarily by what characteristics an individual has or displays. It is often the case that your values will be supported by your own actions, but I think in Neville's case, he strongly admires and values bravery BECAUSE he struggled to have it when he was young. But being surrounded by strong and brave people encouraged him over time to develop the characteristic and become the man he wanted to be. The same can be said of Petter Pettigrew. He valued bravery because he lacked it, and in the end, his fear won out, leading him to abandon his values and live in misery for the rest of his life.
The Hat clearly realised the hidden potential in Neville and sensed that how great he could be in life . And also one of your videos mentioned that his grandmother probably placed some charms on him to keep him out of trouble , given what happened to his parents . So the Hat probably realised that Neville's outward nervousness was not a part of his true nature and sorted him into Gryffindor to help him prove himself.
Would be interesting to see an alternate universe story where the sorting hat doesn't consider your choices and puts Harry in Slytheryn. Could be so different, Harry's darker side gets nourished, he doesn't have close friends, hates Ron and Hermione, cant stop Voldemort from entering his mind in the 5th book and eventually loses to him, Voldemort wins and the world falls in to darkness.
All because the soting hat did not value an individual's choice over its own evaluation.
It's probably already been done tbh..
I think it’s due to Harry being a Voldemort horcrux is why the hat was so set on slytherin at first
I think a more likely consideration with Nevel is that he wanted to be like his parents. Deep down he wanted to stand up against the Beatrixs of the world like mom and dad.
Dumbledore in The Chamber of Secrets: “Only a true Gryffindor would be able to pull the sword of Gryffindor out of the Sorting Hat.”
Neville is The Deathly Hallows: Pulls the sword of Gryffindor out of the Sorting Hat.
As Evan Kelmp pointed out: This is tracking... putting kids on paths based on arbitrary standards. A provably detrimental practice.
Better theory is that it doesn't actually matter what house you get sorted into as far as what kind of person you will become.
The qualities the hat "reads" in the kids are generic and it just evenly sorts out the number of students while appearing random.
Bravery is not the lack of fear, but the ability to act in spite of how scared you are
I love the fact that we are all so invested in a fictional world we're still discussing theoretical ideas!
I still find it highly amusing that the movie Minerva McGonnagal, head of Gryfindor, is dressed from the get-go in Slytherin colors.
Another instance that should be considered when arguing that the hat always makes the right call is Peter Pettigrew. I believe it was Harry who asked the hat why it placed someone like Wormtail into Gryffindor when he betrayed everyone he knew the instant he thought it was for his own benefit when such an action would be much more in line with Slytherin house. The hat counters thought citing Peter's death as proof he was a Gryffindor. That moment of hesitation that caused his silver hand to strangle him in response to not immediately following Voldemort's orders is evidence that Peter always had the qualities of a Gryffindor student. By taking that brief infinitesimal amount of time to wonder if he should kill Harry, Peter showed that just because he was a coward, he in fact did not truly embody the ambition and cunning of always seeking the next opportunity to enrich himself.
Neville was traumatized by his parents assault & vegetation. The Sorting Hat had to see past that trauma to his true character.
As Dumbledore said: it’s not about the traits that we display it’s about what we decide that truly shows who we are.
rowling controversies aside i would love an alternate version of the books where he gets into slytherin and actually does become friends with draco. just to see. i wonder if draco would have been a bad influence on harry or if harry would have been a good influence on draco. draco might have turned harry into a bully by helping him get revenge on dudley and using his fathers influence to make sure harry stays out of trouble for it. and thats not even getting into the potential for harry to become even worse then voldemort over time. image a version of the series where harry becomes a death eater and both voldemort and harry make the unbreakable vow not the harm each other to try and defeat the prophecy.
Harry Potter What Ifs when? :)
Somehow or another the hat has to take into account distribution. Say a particular class is particularly skewed to the ambitious or intelligent. There’d be an overpopulous of slytherins and ravenclaws. And for house cup and quidditch I think it would be unfair not to have such distribution. So to a certain extent it might just infer qualities that may or may not be present for the sanctity of splitting things up equally.
What exactly is the Sorting Hat? It has a mind but you can't see its brain. My fan theory is that Gryffindor had trouble concentrating and difficulty using his magic. That is why he got the goblins to make him a magic sword. And he wore the hat so that it could help him concentrate. Then Gryffindor made it intelligent, possibly his ghost was bound to it or it was his Horcrux. At the end the Sorting Hat realized that its method of sorting was what caused most of the problems with the Wizarding World.
Consider that the Hat has access to the school leadership files in Dumbledore's office. It hangs around all year listening into conversations, being fed the various staff members' thoughts about the new enrollments coming at the start of the next year. While it might not know everything about all the first years, it certainly has significant knowledge ahead of time about the most talked about of them.
Honestly, they should have just been sorted at random. That's how my school did it. Unless you had an older sibling, then you automatically got put in the same house.
My personal head conon. It is known that the prophecy could have been either Harry or Neville, and Riddle basically chose Harry to be the recipient. However, what if the prophecy actually intended for both Harry and Neville even after Riddle chose it to be Harry. A lot of the events in the books could not happen without Neville there in the background. The prophecy never truly stopped referring to both of them.
My pet theory was that most kids simply accept what the hat says..."Can't argue with a Hat!"
The kids with some kind of future are more likely to have a strong preference, and inform the Hat in some way where they want to go.
It might be innocent as a kid wishing "I want to go to the same House as my friends" or "Not Slytherin" like Harry did.
Harry is told that he can 'override' the Hats choice, but how common is that knowledge?
I actually thought it worked this way from the start. Completely agree with your theory, and makes the most sense. Nice to see it all reasoned and laid out clearly though, complete with all of the examples one would wonder about.
I do think it sorts you where ever you want to go. Like why would the hat be stalling at times, if it can make own decisions? It just states your choice out loud once you decide, consciously or not.
I'm just wondering about something. Harry had a horcrux in him and a horcrux defends itself. If the sorting hat uses legilimens to delve into the deepest depths of the mind, why didn't the horcrux cause a backlash like the locket did when anyone used a spell against it? Everybody talks about how the hat could detect it and that's why it wanted to put him in Slytherin. Wouldn't the horcrux take being discovered as a threat? And another thing. If Harry was a horcrux, why didn't any harmful spells cast against him not create a backlash? It seemed like only Voldemorts spells ever backfired from the horcrux. Why wouldn't it do that with stupefy or duelling spells used by Malfoy and others? These questions have been stuck in my head for years and only get reinforced every time I watch the movies or reread the books.
I think a major factor in the sorting is what kind of traits the students _respect_ rather than what traits they actually have.
No, you can't will your way to your house reliably. There are only so many beds in each house, and they need to be occupied in roughly equal measure. The hat is a servant of the headmaster and need to help him uphold order.
I'd steal the hat and take it on an adventure around the world blackmailing wizards. "Gimme two grand or the hat tells me about your weird sex habits, he has those yeah hat?" (Hat nods vigorously) "Real weird, he's friends with Dumbledore's brother"
My running theory on the sorting has is it runs through your mind and identifies your core traits as you grew that didn’t change and based on those values it determines which house they would most flourish in. Slytherin would’ve pushed Harry’s natural talents to their extreme while Gryffindor pushes both his talents and his heart which is what he needed to beat Voldemort. Nevel grew to be someone worth fearing by being but in Gryffindor and the rest grew into what they needed to be for their lifetime since it was destined that Harry’s battle with Voldemort was gonna happen
I always though the reason the sorting hats wanted him to be in slytherin was because it was also reading that part of moldy voldy that was insode harry as a horcrux.
Neville has one of the best character developments of all times. He starts out insecure, self-conscious and fearful. But he overcomes his insecurity in year 5 the moment he learns Bellatrix has escaped from Azkaban. He proves himself in the battle at the ministry. After that, he gets his own wand, a wand that chose him (instead of re-using his father's wand, which is destroyed in the battle). Then he is really improving and becomes kind of badass by year 7. The hat knew he was held back by his father's wand and by being told that he lacked talent and bravery.
I think that if this were true, then Gryffindor would be the smallest house by far. Most British wizards wouldn't question the Hat as it's been an institution for generations. I doubt that a large number of 11- and 12-year-old kids would _dare_ question it.
I think it's all just a metaphor for the fact that whatever you have inside you, however your personality, it all comea down to your choices. Your choices define you, not your nature.
in teh case of neville, he displays bravery in the 1st movie by standing up to his fellow peers harry rona dn hermonie despite being outn umbered and out skilled. he demonstrates this in several instances throughout the series.
Going along with seeing into your head and knowing your true values, I think your family and what’s in your blood tends to have some sway on where you’re placed
Magic is a wild thing . The hat constantly is reading the students and houses abilities and attributes. Mabey the hat without even knowing it consciously put all the people together through fate . For the coming battle of their very lives . The Battle of Hogwarts.
Edit: and it hat stalled on Nevil . He cut Nigini down and was pivitol in the battle.
I don't think the hat decides for you. I think the hat by means of magic is capable of discerning your true choice. Even if at the moment you are unsure. I think everyone ultimately chooses their own house whether or not they realize it.
I don't think the hat is truly measuring your abilities or character. It's more like that coin flip decision trick where it isn't about which side the coin lands on but how you feel about it. That better explains the stalls and the easy decisions. Malfoy's mind was made up. Neville, Hermione, Ron, and Harry were all unsure.
How would the piece of Voldemort's soul inside Harry have affected the Sorting Hat's evaluation of him? Could that have been the reason that the Sorting Hat first thought that Harry was supposed to go into Slytherin?
basically, this theory is that the sorting hat cheates when he wants a student in gryffindor.
the truth?
Rowling thinking "I don't f*cking care about personality traits. I will put each character where I need them to be to do what I want them to do"
most of the characters are sorted in the wrong house.
Draco acts nothing like cunning and his greater ambition is to get everything because of his blood status.
Hermione, and Lily, is more ravenclaw than Rowena herself.
Neville couldn't be more hufflepuff even if he tried. the only brave act he did was helping a friend (Harry) and fulfilling a promise (to Harry). while both things need courage, they are done due to friendship (hufflepuff's main trait)
Harry could be in any house but him not wanting to be in slytherin is far from a a reason to put him in gryffindor. if nothing else, it would prove he's a hufflepuff that values friendship over power and is scared to be surrounded by the children of death eaters.
I personally would put Harry in Hufflepuff with Neville. what harry values the most is friendship. just look at his first friends in the canon. Hagrid was the first that showed him kindness and support, Ron was his first friend his age and Hermione a girl he rescued and she paid taking the blame so harry wouldn't be in trouble for rescuing her.
by the way, do you believe Draco minions even know what ambition or cunning mean? that being said, I doubt they have the trait of any house.
for harry, it can be argued that the hat Sensed teh connection to voldermort and thats is why it considered putting harry in slytherian
Lack of fear is not bravery. Overcoming fear is the vocation of the brave.
Imagine being placed in a house which you find out you do not like your peers, or even find them insufferable. It must be goddamn hell for at least those students.
Now hear me out: The new HBO show starts up and then we hear the hat say “Slytherin”. Somehow they keep it unspoiled.
One thing to note, Harry had voldamort, or at least a part of him in his head. Hence the confusion. The scar Harry bears is or was, a failed hororcrux. Meaning the traits the hat seen that said slitherin were not actually Harry's, but voldamort's.
The Sorting Hat had ONE job: send Tom Riddle to Hufflepuff.
Harry was a horcrux. The hat was reading both Harry and Voldemort, hence the conflict.
Your comment at the end of this video debunks the theory in this video.... The flaw of the sorting hat is that it places you in the house that has the quality that you value the most. Which isn't always the quality that you have the most, if any of. This flaw in the sorting hat ruined Snape's life and allowed Wormtail to hide his true character.
Neville reminds me of Godfrey in Dad's Army. Godfrey who was so soft spoken, polite and seemingly simple that nobody expected that he'd have thrown himself unarmed into the battlefields of the first world war and earned medals for bravery despite being a pacifist.
Wow fantastic video, so insightful.
I think perhaps due also to the effects of the prophecy it is divined that Neville would become a Gryffindor, the potential chosen one, an instrument of light in the battle against the dark Lord, a weapon of Fate, willed to Gryffindor to become a man of courage and an integral colour upon the bristles of the grand creators brush
I interpret it as the hat looking into their mind and checking wich of the house values is the highest, even if the person doesn't know it yet. Obviously people can have all of those values in them, but only the top one decides the house. It explains why it took so long on Hermione. Her thirst for knowledge must have been a really close second after her courage.
maybe the houses should be more than what the students represents in them, by sharing their goals with the others, cause if they choose not to (like Slytherin) they'll become stale and stagnant
I... don't think it's as simple as willing it. Not everyone is going to challenge a mind-reading hat, if the hat never actually proposes Gryffindor, it implies the house would be far smaller than the rest. I feel like Neville's case is proof of that, and your take is... fair but a bit of a leap. Harry thinks (and later tells his son) that picking Gryffindor is enough because "it takes your choices into account" and then Neville defies this by not getting Hufflepuff. It's obviously a bit of both. A part of it is what you value, a prt of it is what you ARE, a part of it is what you want, and so on.
Someone should tell Slytherin that ambition without knowledge is like a boat on dry land
Didn't Neville prove himmelfartsdag a Gryffindor already in the first book? He stood up against his friends and for that he got 10 points for his house. This is an argument for a bravery existing in him from the start.
I believe that the students choice is not a factor unless the student already displays traits of that house so had draco chosen Gryffindor it would not have mattered because he never showed true bravery the main quality of a Gryffindor student
I think the Hat does also take family history into account, as it hardly touched Draco's head before declaring "Slytherin!" and to Ron it comments: "Ah! Another Weasley! I know where to put you. Gryffindor!" Hermione however, being a Muggle-born with no family history, and clearly Ravenclaw material, but lacking even an ounce of shame, always speaking her mind, made her fearless after a fashion, thus making her a tough choice for the Hat to nail down. As for Harry, Sirius, Lupin, and Snape all comment on how much Harry physically takes after James, and Snape also sees Harry as a behavioral copy of his father, which the Hat no doubt also saw, along with the remnant of Lily's Love Protection, and the portion of Voldermort's soul. This makeup effectively gave Harry "three powerful wizarding parents", thus he did indeed possess great power/talent, and together with Voldermort's soul, would have excelled in Slytherin. Yet Harry refused Slytherin, thus the only aspects of Harry left to consider were James and Lily, making Harry belong to "Gryffindor!" by a wide margin.
Menaing the sorting hat knew all along Harry was a horcux. Think thats how Dumbledore really found out?
@spud69g Voldermort's sudden disappearance coinciding with Harry's miraculous survival caused several people to suspect that Voldermort might have indwelt the boy, or Harry had absorbed a part of the Dark Lord’s essence in some way. Before Harry's first year, the Death Eaters believed that Voldermort may have shed his original body, transferring it to Harry and taking over the body, and while Dumbledore doesn't seem to believe this to be the case, he can't rule out the possibility until he sees Harry's behavior in his first year. Harry's parceltongue, and possibly the Hat's report to Dumbledore, revealed that while Harry was certainly not Voldermort reincarnate, Harry did receive a portion of Voldermort in the attack. I don't believe Dumbledore was considering, or even aware of, the horcruxes this early, rather seeing a part of Voldermort in Harry, and the diary, is what led Dumbledore to investigate Voldermort's possible use of horcruxes.
But harry kid was put in slytherin
Replace the Sorting Hat's magic with technology,
and remove the technocrats (who use it to weed them out),
and Gryffindor becomes the House for the 'Divergent'/
those with virtues typical of multiple Houses/Factions.
Based upon that the sorting hat must be able to enter the prospective being, surely it could detect the portion of. Voldemort overlayed onto Harry Potter and should have immediately alerted everyone as soon as it was detected. Just because Harry did not know, does not mean that the Hat would not know, especially since in the unwitting creation of this horcrux leaving what was left of Voldemort as a semi-fetal existence.
"Nobody ever questions it"
But didn't Harry question the hat's decision?
Just want tto say, i really enjoy your videos
I appreciate that!
Great video. Thanks for the awesome content on this channel. Looking forward to following during the show!
Nobody can will themselves or willed themselves into Gryffindor.
The logic in this strategy is flawed because the hat considers the life path: past, present, and future in choosing. The hat considers "input" from the students, but it already knows the origin of that input, so it's not "swayed" by the input, but reminded that the "input" confirms the choice it was already going to make
Lily Evans was sorted to gryffindor as soon as the hat touched her head, though. Doesn’t seem like the hat had much time to propose a different house, or “test” her into making a conscious choice in any way.
Wasn’t the hat basically seeing Voldemort’s partial soul in Harry that caused its confusion?
I think you still keep looking at the hat as a cold mechanical device, not a sapient being. Even if it knows all about a student's traits, it still considers things outside the "algorithm". What the student desires. How will they feel during their school time, not just what they'll achieve. What they like, not just what they're good at. Harry-Slytherin, Hermione-Ravenclaw are the clear algorithmic choices of skillset -> matching training profile. It's only after reviewing goals, desires, fears, all the things surrounding the consequences of the choice that a better match is made.
the sorting hat never explicitly said it was gonna put Harry in Slytherin. It simply said Harry COULD do well there. so it’s not even sure about that.
And it’s certainly not the same as saying “Oh I was gonna put you in Slytherin but now I’ve changed my mind”. Plus: the Sorting Hat only mentions Slytherin because Harry does so first. It’s completely possible that even without Harrys’ “Not Slytherin” wish, he still would have ended up in Gryffindor. Actually I think it’s most likely.
Just look at what the Sorting Hat is mentioning before Harry brings up Slytherin: courage, a good mind, a lot of talent and a thirst to prove yourself. To me this sounds like the blueprint for a Gryffindor. And just to be clear “a thirst to prove yourself" is not the same as ambition. it comes closer to Harrys “playing the hero” side, which is the opposite of what any self-respecting Slytherin would do. So no, I don’t think there’s any scenario that would have ended with Harry in Slytherin.
Which is not to say the Sorting Hat doesn’t consider your wishes. But that’s not the same as following those wishes blindly. More importantly, I think the hat also considers the reasons for those wishes. In Nevilles case it was lack of confidence and fear of embarrassment that led him to wish for Hufflepuff, in part due to living in the shadow of his hero parents. something he needed to get over no matter which house he ended up in. But still a tricky question which house would be best suited to help with that, which is why it took so long.
Last but not least: just because Sprout happens to be head of Hufflepuff AND a Herbology professor does not mean Herbology is connected to Hufflepuff.
the sorting had will also have to put students where there is room after the houses start to fill up. so if huffle puff was full then gryfindor for nevel and as raven claw was filling up it took hermione's choisce into account then harry was after so since slitherine was really full the sorting had would have taken harry's request. also dumbledore would have been able to talk to the sorting hat previous to selection day and help it decide where to place each student as he was the gardian of the hat as the head master
Or, what if the sorting hat wasn’t choosing for bravery at all? He was choosing for other qualities all along.
I always personally thought that there was a lot of factors that went into it because obviously each house can only let so many people in each year it's not even houses or houses that have no students at all plus four most students what are the ones that are not muggle-born the hat knew their parents
What if Harry was in Slytherin supercarlinbros