Find a Church that's in A tier or S tier: www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edi... Gavin Ortlund's channel: / @truthunites My Pentecostal Friend's channel: / @hope-77-
“What he is talking about ???orthodoxy is the TRUE church this is why ALL prostenants are dumb illogical morons “ would be his response summed up in a nutshell
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28
As an ex-Mormon, I was a member from birth until 29, when I finally understood the theology of the Bible I was appalled by the belief systems of the LDS church. I'm ashamed to say it took me so long to realize. I still haven't settled on a definitive denomination yet, but I'm glad to be on the path to true Christianity.
Dont beat yourself up freind, Christ was beaten for you, and the important part is that you know the truth -now- (that Jesus is the Messiah). God said, I will redeem the years the locust has eaten and the theif has stolen.
I am in the exact same boat and have recently come to believe that the Orthodox Church is the answer. Definitely worth your time to attend one and judge for yourself.
As a catholic thank you for not calling us witch burners or papists. It’s such a breath of fresh air hearing different denominations being polite and fair to each other
As a 14 girl who is still trying to figure out everything this video and all of your videos help explain a lot. Both of my parents aren’t Christian so there isn’t a way for me to go to Church. Its very sad and i’m looking for a way to go. But thank you for helping me understand all the different branches.
Praying for you. Seek God and He will provide for you! Jesus is the way, truth, and life!! I hope this encourages you to pray 🙏 May your life be changed forevermore
I know it sounds corny, but its true when they say that in heaven they celebrate when someone turns to the Lord. Your perseverance in a time like this will help you in a lifetime of following Jesus, I promise.
In defence of the Orthodox church: First of all, categorizing it as "Eastern" opposes the fact that it was the religion of the first Western state, except if you meant it in the sense of "Eastern European". Secondly, the arts and sciences were very much present inside the Easten Roman Empire, the explosion of scientific and artistic progress in Western Europe, where Catholicism was prevalent, happened after the diaspora of Greek intellectuals from Constantinople introduced Europe to a wealth of ancient Greek manuscripts. Thirdly, nationalism amongst Orthodox Christians is neccessary for our survival; the Eastern Roman Empire served as the bulwark against Persian and Muslim expansion, giving Central Europeans multiple centuries to develop their own cultures and states.
I never thought as an ex-Christian atheist who especially has issues with Reformed theology that I would love this channel. But you're very engaging, fair, honest, and do a great job explicitly stating your priorities as a Christian (i.e. Jesus as physically resurrected savior). I can really respect that and I'm subscribing!
@@EzraCansler I think a lot of open minded atheists/agnostics find coercion by fear a pretty weak method of convincement. In my eyes, if God can appear before Satanists & murderers & such and convert them during their lifetime, I'll wait for him to get around to me and provide me with such an experience.
As a historian, I found my way into the Catholic faith from a Protestant tradition. As John Henry Newman famously said: "to be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant."
@@islandblindI am catholic and that quote is sadly taken out of context. Newman wrote that in an essay critiquing a faction in the CofE that disregarded all church history and he wrote it while still an Anglo-Catholic, not in union with the Pope. What he means by Protestant is not the same as what we catholics in this age associate with the term. Still I would agree with your interpretation that history is clear that the Catholic Church is what it claims to be. Still recommend not using that quote as it is taken horribly out of context by Protestants and catholics alike. God bless you
I'm Orthodox and i must say that nothing in an Orthodox church is there purely for beauty. In the historic Christian faith it has always been understood that church is a sacramental place that is set apart. Images in the church direct us toward the reality that what us depicted is the visoble reality beyond what we see. In Hebrews it says we are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses, which is illustrated in the iconlography of the chirch. The architecture also reflects our beliefs from the dome representing heaven above to the crucifix showing the reality of Christs sacrifice to the Resurrection and enthronement of Christ. Its not there just for pretty. The Bible tells us to worship the Lord in beauty and holiness.
yeah also Orthodox churches line up closest to prechristian temples, and since we are basically carrying on the OT tradition in light of Christ's ministry, it doesn't make sense to reinvent that which doesn't need to be. A first century christian would feel most at-home in an Orthodox church, which is exactly the timelessness all of christianity should strive for.
The 1st Century Born Again New Creations were slack in removing themselves from the Temple traditions BUT they finally did till the Almighty had them destroyed, UNFORTUNATELY those hijacked the Temple trappings and other stuff to recreate their own idolatry @@jansi8478
Genuine question regarding the baptism criticism in the baptist section. You said "they think salvation needs to be a personal individual choice" My mind jumped to Romans 10:9-10 which seems to indicate that salvation is a very personal choice. Obviously it can be influenced by others, but its ultimately up to the individual. Where do you see in scripture that it is not a personal choice? Also, You said "baptism is about citizenship within the kingdom of God, and you become a citizen of your country at birth" How could heavenly citizenship can't precede salvation when the choice for salvation hasn't been made yet/if at all?
Baptism the way it's taught to me, is that no one knows what you are thinking, so how can people in the church know you're saved, you may say it and everyone may very well believe that you are saved but by being Baptized we are telling the congregation that we believe Jesus Christ died on the cross and rose on the third day for our sins
I hope he replies to this comment. Because I too am Baptist. I believe in that personal relationship with God and in a lot of ways I think we and Lutherans can talk about alot (I like how Lutherans do it). The criticism of “idolizing preachers” I can understand and it is a problem, however that personal connection to God, is really what brings Baptist home for me. We are to point to Jesus, we are patient in the conversion of non believers. It’s all about nurturing and taking your time and maturing into the word of God
Presbyterians - Baptism = Salvation through Covenant + OSAS = Any sin a person wants to practice the rest of his life means the person is saved. That is why Presbyterian U.S.A. logically from their TULIP system believe in Gay Marriage, as the other Heretical "Christian" churches do in the same category. See ECLA "Full Communion."
I’m a (Trinitarian) Pentecostal and what you said about us is unfortunately spot on! I wish more Pentecostals would actually read the clear instructions on how to properly use spiritual gifts! “If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order.” 1 Corinthians 14:37-40 KJV Side note: I too prefer the more traditional hymns over the contemporary stuff.
Don't leave what is a sound Christian community for Larps. Pentecostals get alot of things right. They have true community, fellowship. They just have to respect the communion more.
@@juandoming6688true on the communion part because I am in a Pentecostal church and we rarely do communion. It’s mostly one in a while but always on Christmas and Easter
Yeah if the lord has it on your heart to interpret then you need to do so and I think if someone did speak in tongues loudly during preaching then that would be disorderly ✝️❤️god bless
I’m a Greek Orthodox Christian living in America. I’ve been one since birth. Usually, I skip to the part where you talk about my religion because nobody talks about us. When you talked about our churches, and how beautiful you thought they where. But, a couple things I feel are a bit off. The Orthodox are extremely theologically conservative. We essentially untouched by “modern” ideals. That’s mostly because we don’t have many followers from America. Anyways, our churches (in my opinion) are the most beautiful of all the denominations. But the icons have way more meaning than you think. A picture is worth a thousand words. We’d dedicate part of our bible studies to icons in our church, by just pointing at them and explaining. Explaining takes a long time. Other than that, I hope you have a great day man. Love the vids. I also chuckled when you said we tend to be more nationalistic. It’s true, but I had something else in mind. Can’t tell if that was a joke or not.
Agreed, Protestants innovated everything. Many Protestants today would believe the disciples and Church fathers to be heretics since the reformers changed so much doctrine.
The Seventh Ecumenical Council expresses two sides to the doctrine of Iconography: Iconography as a didactic tool and iconography as a witness to the deification of the material. The first of these doctrines is heavily leaned into by Renaissance Catholicism and Iconophilic Protestantism. In this iteration of the argument, Icons are defended as useful educational tools that communicate in their beauty an essential spiritual truth. It is/was an argument that held particular sway in the medieval period when literacy was low. The second, however, has had a far greater impact in the Orthodox world. This argument explains that in the Incarnation, the divine Godhead for the first time deified the worldly, human and material. Christ, in his divinity taking on our humanity, raises our humanity to the level of the divine. Our humanity is raised to divinity through Theosis just as an iron in contact with a flame takes on the flame's heat without losing its material or shape. Icons are the ultimate witness to this process of theosis. The true icon is transformed in a eucharistic act of dedication to God from the mere matter of paint and wood into that same matter glowing with the glory of God. This is the substance of the beauty of an icon. This theological belief is also precisely how we understand the witness of the saints or even the divine beauty expressed in each person. This is the reason that in the Liturgy, the incense is applied both to the painted icons (Lesser icons as they are called) and to the people in the congregation (the Greater Icons as they are crafted by God and show the theology if Icon in our very bodies and form). It is this second argument which the Western World has significantly missed and, in many ways, through an understanding of the relationship between icon and glorification we grasp the inner theology of humanity's deification.
Been going on a dive into what goes into making icons. I knew it was a process, but it's more akin to a trade and a lifestyle than making just an illustration.
As a catholic, I am so glad someone finally explained that the catholic church wasn't this barbaric tribe who burned women who could do math and people who disagreed with them, and actually tells that it actually contributed so much to science and theology. While also being very good to many people and was one of the main contributers to spreading the word of God. Thank you.
@@JessePinkman808I was expecting him to put Catholicism in B. S is reserved for his own tradition and A would have been too full if he put Catholic there
@@lesinge8868 Then if his own traditional religion has to be the only S, then Catholicism should totally be an A tier because it was the church founded by Jesus Christ
He actually didn't. He's describing the codified doctrine of the Baptist denomination. Maybe you just don't believe it, but he was very true to the Baptist professions of faith. (I went to Baylor.)
Really, what's kind of funny to me as a Baptist, is that the things he says about some of the Baptist cult followings if certain Pastor's is something I've heard many of my fellow Baptists decry. I will say though that Baptists are necessarily anti-tradition. We are anti-tradition that isn't supported by scripture.
I am a member at an Independent Baptist Church. I can honestly say it is the most Christ-centered, theologically rich, congregation led church I have ever been to. I’ve been to a lot of baptist churches, and I don’t fit in very well, and agree with your assessment on most baptist churches. But the body of my church has extremely intelligent and wise God fearing people. The point of my comment is that sometimes the Lord leads you to places you never thought you’d go to. I’ve been blessed. Be well ❤
Finally a comment that isn’t a catholic or orthodox 14 year old who hates Protestants and evangelicals simply because of their ego and think they are “redpilled, gigachad and based” because some youtuber said they are.
Usually the problem with baptist churches is that they remove a lot of tradition and then add in their own tradition and treat it like it’s scriptural. Many baptist churches force their women to dress borderline Amish with skirts or dresses only. They force their members to donate 10% of their paychecks utilizing fear tactics and prosperity gospel. They say you cannot drink alcohol in any amount, tattoos damn you to hell, and they tell you that you cannot be friends with those outside your cult denomination. Many baptist churches are great. West Baptist Church in Florida is an amazing church. But many baptist churches tend to stick to being an “IFB” Church, which like it or not, is not far from being considered a cult.
I think one thing missed about Baptists by mainline church commentators is about our traditions. Our independence is our tradition. We still feel united, generally speaking; however, don't accept top-down organization. Some of the critiques are spot on, though, lol. I would also add the extreme fundamental baptists to the d or f part of the chart since they often make minor issues on par with salvation itself.
As a Pentecostal I'm REALLY surprised you haven't mentioned much about the heresy that hijacks the Pentecostal churches. Word of Faith/New Age Theology is rampant in Pentecostal churches.
I think he might be referring to the mainline churches breaking away from the original theology of the denominations. The pentacostals got hit hard a few years ago, presbys too. The methodists just split in half, and the southern baptists just had a very public debate.
7:00 While I agree to a degree, the reason why modern protestant churches are so simple is partially to be able to build as quickly and efficiently wherever a building is needed and not have to spend years on a fancy building that looks pretty. The vast majority of non-denominational churches I've been to started as a bible study group or something like that from one church that expanded to the point where they needed to purchase a building to make their own meeting place, which, all things considered, is a VERY Biblical way for a church to start and is how all of the Early Churches started in some shape or form where the "church" wasn't necessarily a building but a community. It's very pragmatic, all things considered, but I think we are going to be seeing a reversal soon enough as many Protestants have been complaining about it for years. 46:10 I've never heard anyone from a non-denominational church say that churches need to be decentralized. Again, non-denominational churches usually form from a community that WANTS a church but can't go through all of the work to ask a normal denomination to step in do things for them. Most non-denominational churches are local grassroots churches where there was a necessity to make a church for one reason or another. A lot of larger church denominations do suffer from bureaucracy and not being able to work as effectively or quickly as they could, as I recall issues in the Methodist churches over this. The larger an institution, the more money is absorbed to do very simple tasks. Non-denominational churches excel at being able to start up quick and get to the point really fast. All of the fastest growing churches I've seen were non-denominational where I knew one that went from only a few dozen people to thousands within a decade because there wasn't any bureaucracy slowing them down to get things working as fast as possible (they were also biblically sound too). However, as mentioned, non-denominational churches suffer heavily from each congregation or church not being held to any sort of authority above them. I think Non-denominational churches are an example of being a risky gamble because they can be INCREDIBLY good at catering to the exact needs of a given community but also can suffer greatly in terms of theology.
These videos help me understand a lot more about denominations. My family has historically been part of so many different denominations, just going back to my grandparents there is Catholic, Orthodox, Mormon, Presbyterian and United. Being from a very rural area, there was only 1 church in town, a Mennonite church too. Working things out to find a denomination has been quite tough so understanding denominations better really helps.
As a man raised Greek Orthodox with strong connections with Russia it was indeed interesting to listen to your opinion on the Orthodox Church. From my point of view you just did not search deeply enough about the Orthodox Church because it did have an impact on world cultural heritage. Don't forget about the Pandidakterion, which was de facto the first university in the world. That's why it is called sometimes as the University of Constantinople as well as the monk theological/scientifical brotherhoods of Kiev, Lvov, Vilnius and Ostrog. The Kievan one raised up to the academy rank for example. Plus, we DO have deep theology. The most prominent traditional ones are St Gregory Palamas, St John Chysostome, St John of Damascus and many others. Even nowadays we have some respected and famous theologians such as Christos Yiannaras, Amphilochius (Radovic), Alexandr Men'. Check them out. As for iconography an orthodox would say: iconography is theology in colours. As an example I can recommmend you to read about The Holy Trinity icon by St Andrew Roublev. Have a nice day!)
My friend this guy belongs to the Calvinist tradition. His understanding of God is a bit flawed and therefore he misunderstands orthodoxy and the christian faith.
Catholic here -- I fully agree that the Orthodox Church was given great disservice here. I don't think that the few substantial differences between us (the papacy, the Filioque, and the Immaculate Conception seen as "negative" by the Orthodox; nationalism, separation [e.g. the Moscow-Constantinople schism], and non-ecumenism seen as "negative" by the Catholics; and then our differing vantage points of theology) warrant an entire "tier" downgrade. Then again, this is a Reformed speaker who doesn't appear to recognize that we (Catholic and Orthodox) are the same group that created the Nicene Creed, the same Church that all of the Church Fathers were from, and the same Church that Christ instituted to spread His Gospel Message (though we are now separated).
@@PianoForte9096 Let us all pray that one day our churches, Roman Catholic and Orthodox, find some meaningful way to reconcile our differences. While all men are brothers in a sense, the bond between Catholics and Orthodox is especially strong.
Jesus was baptized as an adult as were the apostles, Baptist baptisms make the most sense. Given how important the concept of free will is in theology just reinforces the point that adult baptism makes more sense than infant baptism.
I have come to the conclusion there is no perfect theology; orthodoxy loves the history and "mysteries" which IS supported by doctrine. " I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you." and "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." the Apostolic Tradition of Hippolytus allows for infants to be baptized. Colossians 2:11-12 speaks of baptism in lieu of circumcision but says you were "raised through faith". Of course Acts 2:38-41 tells of the remission of sin and some would argue infants are not guilty of sin, but I disagree. “Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me.” Psalm 51:5. "I baptize you with water for repentance, but one who is more powerful than I is coming after me; I am not worthy to carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire". 1 Peter 3:21 - Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" You could argue an infant doesn't have a conscience, but the baptism is an appeal to God. Acts 22:16 - And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’ - AND wash away your sins. I don't believe the two are one, but you have to repent and call upon Christ. The baptism seems to be on top of the belief. Yes, you can take a bath but you also have to repent to be clean(sed of sin). I don't see a problem with infant baptism as you also need repentance (or be free from sin) to be saved. My worthless argument.
Yea I mean I'm part of the Alliance denomination (basically baptist) which focuses on evangelism and preaching the. Gospel. I believe that infant baptism is stupid but it's not like it's gonna keep them from Heaven. This video serves no purpose the guy just wants to say that his denomination is better than everyone else's, while there are some denominations that are false, most denominations have the same core beliefs
Thank you for opening my eyes on Baptist churches. I’ve been on my path to Christianity for several years, and I used to attend my local baptist church for a while. It was fantastic, but it was also the only time I’ve taken church seriously, so it had a big impact on me. I’m going to find my local Presbyterian church and check it out!
Baptist churches are definitely broad. I don’t think he captured my experience as a Baptist well at all but i think it’s because my churches tended to be more akin to the beliefs of Presbyterian but with the exception of Baptism and emphasis on personal faith (which is more so that you have to make a decision on Christ, you can’t just show up and check the box). But sadly I see more bad Baptist churches these days than good. They tend to try to be popular and have a bring the lost to the preacher and attract them with pizza mentality
Having spent time in a variety of churches of different denominations throughout my life, I can say with certainty that the individual church matters far more than the denomination.
While not Christian, I agree. I think that the specific house of worship and congregation is more important in *every* religion, since a community isn't going to be the exact same as another just because they follow the same religious denomination.
I partially agree. I'm a Catholic, and I've been a member of 3 different Catholic churches over the years. The structure is the same, the mass is the same, the music is different, and that's about it. The difference between denominations, though, can be pretty big. I don't think any of them are wrong (other than woke modern ones), but the differences at least matter. Edit: and the church "staff"(?) obviously. But they've been good everywhere I've been.
@@owfiI agree completely I've been come some sort of Christian universalist. I believe all denominations (other than woke ones like you said) are under the umbrella of Christ's church and has saved believers in it. Anyone who has a heart for God will be saved through their faith and love in His son. I believe anyone who believes it is faith alone will God to heaven based on that if someone thinks it includes the sacraments I believe it will for them if they believe baptism is most important they will all be judged in the way they believe in Christ because they serve Christ and there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. There has to be a reason God made all these denominations as I have met true men and women of God in everyone of them. Clearly God has a use for putting men and women in them. (What I mean when I say Christian universalist is not the same as universalist) I believe that all Christians who actually follow Christ no matter what denomination they are part of. I do believe non Christians and biblical heretics are not going to heaven.
@@justdoinmythingthe denomination does matter. Let's take the Eucharist: if Christ commanded us to "do this in memory of me" in the sense of the perpetual Mass with transubstantiation occurring at individual masses practiced by Catholics, every denomination, and by extension every Christian within that denomination, is disobeying Christ. This also isn't a slight point to be ignored though as He clearly states whoever doesn't eat and drink of it has no life, causing many to abandon Him. Paul also reminds us that drinking unworthily is to drink death. We cannot be apathetic about what we believe.
C.S. Lewis described non-denominationalism like this: Imagine Christianity as a big house, and every door is a different denomination. You might spend a long time deciding which room it is you feel most comfortable in, but you can't decide to just live in the hallway.
I'm Coptic Orthodox and my Church looks like a dog's breakfast. But, I love my Church and the people in it. I concede that Orthodox Churches do tend to be Nationalistic, but I find it to be in name only (in my experience), as they are lightning quick to accept anybody willing to attend.
As a Baptist, yeah, a lot of Baptists have a bad habit of not knowing the doctrines that our denomination was founded upon. I ask around my Baptist friends what they think about regenerate church membership (the defining trait of Baptist churches) and they have no idea. If I were to make a tier list like this then I would put Baptists in S or A tier based on beliefs and doctrine, but in culture and in practice I'd agree with you wholeheartedly.
Your critique of modern day Baptist is pretty accurate. And, I love how you acknowledge certain Baptist who are trying to renew the Baptist faith like Gavin Ortland, who is one the best Protestant apologists on RUclips. However, as I have commented on previous videos, Baptist are NOT radical reformers/Anabaptists. Though we are not reformed either, historical Baptist were more in agreement with the Reformed tradition than they were with the Anabaptist tradition.The First London Confession even makes this clear in its first sentence, “The confession of faith of those churches which are commonly (though falsely) called Anabaptists.” As someone who is Baptist, is training to be a Baptist minister, and absolutely loves church history and other Protestant traditions, this frustrates me because we are falsely labeled as radical reformers, and many Baptist wear the label as a badge of pride. I’m honestly praying for renewal and an ecumenical spirit to return to the Baptist tradition.
Thank you for commenting this, I grew up in a Baptist church and know of many other churches like mine that have our church family and traditions, many people who are well versed in scripture, etc.
I converted to Catholicism a couple of years ago after being an atheist in my childhood and growing up in an atheist family. You seem to have a fair view and pretty good understanding of all the denominations from a protestant viewpoint, and it's fun to hear about how you compare them! Thank you for making these videos, it's so nice to see Christian content from other young people. 😊♥✝
Just listen to bishop barron sermon. Don't listen to any other preacher who doesn't get u closer to God. You can tell if the holy spirit is present if it is deep and made impact on you.
This was very interesting, really learned a lot 😀 I'm in Scotland and Presbyterian, however really great to hear your view and perspective on other Christian denominations. Thanks mate 👍
Personally it seemed a little unfair to base most denominations on their best expressions except for Baptists. To be fair, I am biased myself as a Baptist.😂 Keep up the good work brother!
First he said we think institutional Christianity is bad because institutions get corrupt, and rejected this. Later, he lamented how some institutional denominations have been hijacked. That's the corruption right there. "Rogue mercenaries" is an analogy on point, however. Many churches I've been part of have been quite individualistic and struggle to be a family or to reflect the kingdom.
I'm Catholic, and you were well polite about my church, Presbyterians are the Protestants I empathize with the most, along with Methodists (I was a Presbyterian before becoming Catholic, and my mother is a Methodist). Paz de Cristo e Viva Cristo Rei ✝☦
Similar here. I was baptized methodist, my wife, and both my parents families. Her family comes from Baptist background and this year I was converted catholic.
As a Non-Denominationalist, here's the thing: Non-Denom doesn't create problems. It just reveals them. Here's the thing: If someone who's in a denomination 'believes' the right things, but only because they think that they're not allowed to disagree with the church, then they aren't ACTUALLY having that strong belief, they're just going along with what they're told. Non-denom puts an emphasis on personal responsibility. It takes away your ability to point and blame others for things you get wrong. Non-denom is about being unified with all followers of Christ regardless of differing opinions, and actually discussing and talking out these things rather than just saying "well that's the church doctrine, so too bad". Non-Denom, in my opinion, is the best system because it creates an environment where if someone is spiritually going astray, it will be obvious, and they can be called out on it by other believers. I feel like denominationalism doesn't actually help people grow their faith, it just makes people with weak faith LOOK stronger, because they're just going along with what they're told. I think it also gives you a false sense of intellectual security that Christians shouldn't have. Denominationalism often results in people thinking they no longer have to worry about actually wrestling with and understanding scripture, because they just can go along with their church doctrine. I think this is a dangerous thing that results in a lot of people going astray in a way that, unlike in non-denom, is really hard to pick out. I'd say that the ratio of genuine Christians in Non-Denom to denominational churches is the same, the only difference is how visible poor faith will be. If you're going with the motions of a church and just relying on that churches doctrine rather than letting yourself just go and consider what you actually believe based on the evidence, then that will be a lot less obvious than if you do let yourself consider what you actually believe and just fail to hold yourself responsible to seeking truth. One results in someone who doesn't genuinely have faith but will say a lot of spiritually sound things due to following a curated doctrine, where the other results in someone who doesn't have the genuine faith but it's obvious through what they say. This is why I prefer non-denom. Because it - Feels more united. Being 'united' by a church government feels false to me. If I were to join any denomination right now, I'd have to be going along with at least a couple doctrines I don't believe. So the 'unity' I would have with that church would feel fake. Meanwhile, the unity I have with all the other genuine Christians in the world feels legit because, even though we disagree, we're able to be up front about it and know that, despite our disagreements, we're united through Christ. The unity feels real rather than forced. - Logically seems like a more sound theological philosophy. Science is built to seek truth, and in science we don't tell people they aren't allowed to consider other ideas, instead we encourage people to go test and seek evidence so that collectively, through our different theories being tested against each other, we can get better and better understanding. Sure, a couple 'scientists' might go off and claim completely false things, but the rest of the scientists are free to call them out on it. This is how I think Non-denominationalist is. Everyone individually being responsible to seek truth, but working collectively to keep each other accountable and learn. - Is easier to know who's genuine. A system where you're not forced or pressured to just agree with what you're told, is a system where people with incorrect or ingenuine faith will quickly be revealed as such. - Feels more rooted in scripture than in human traditions. The sermons at my church are almost entirely just reading the Bible, then there's fellowship after the sermon to discuss. The sermons aren't about what that church body thinks, it's about what God thinks. The pastor doesn't treat his words as if they have real spiritual authority, like some denominations do, but instead acknowledges that he's a flawed human like everyone else and despite going to college and taking pastoral classes, could still be wrong. The "flaws" with non-denominationalism are all because of personal irresponsibility and ingenuine faith - stuff that would still be a problem in denominational churches, just aren't as obvious to see.
Nondenominational was a hipster movement a few years back. A chance to not be labeled and not have to think too hard on theology. Not saying that all nondenoms but it’s why I see many in those churches who have no intention of opening a Bible or having tough conversations
No matter how hard you think you understand scripture, you still remember the information from the scripture in your own image. If your mind can make mistakes, your mind cannot read scripture infallibly.
I find what you say about the baptists to be so interesting because as a person who was born into a baptist church and believes in believers baptism I have often wondered why there is less emphasis on the history of the church. I think that based on what I know it would be great for baptists to learn church history and find out where we come from. I have done some study of church history and it has done nothing but increase my faith and assurance that I do have good and orthodox theology. I think that the reason that as you say baptists have a long retention rate is that we do understand salvation as something that happens to an individual and thus we only baptize those in water who we see bear the fruit of a person who has been baptized in the spirit.
I was raised and continue to be Baptist (SBC in the 1990s, then CBF after the schism became permanent). I do recall there was a big to-do on the 400th anniversary of the founding of what would become the Baptists by Smyth and Helwys. But otherwise, we seem to mostly speak to our broad family tradition, and where we are and where we are going, rather than pointing to individual history. If and when history is mentioned, the major emphasis seems to be that of how certain historical events resulted in the formation of the Baptist heritage (at least here in the United States). Basically, as with the other English Dissenters, the Baptist tradition was less the result of purely intellectual disputes than it is the sum total of the experiences of the Reformation(s), the Counter-Reformation, the European Wars of the Religion, the English Revolutions of the 17th century, the downside of a mandatory Established Churches no matter how-Protestant, and in general bad things happening on all sides. Basically all to explain: why we don't force people to be a full member of the church, why we have congregational polity (grass-roots governance rather than top-down), why one of our main tenants is separation of church and state, etc., and the general individual emphasis on individual Soul Competency, rather than dogmatics. In order to spare strife and reduce persecution seen in the 16th-18th centuries, Baptists baked into the denominational theology our modern politically-liberal conception of "religious freedom" and democracy, before political religious freedom and liberal democracy was firmly in place in secular civil government. It is, I think, one reasons Baptists are so numerous and prominent in the USA: our theology is quite compatible with the foundational political philosophies of the country. That is also why so many Baptists have been highly skeptical of any theological tests being imposed between congregations of the various fellowships other than the basic Nicene &c. creeds and holding of the Baptist distinctives. Our tradition stripped Christianity down to what the founding generations of the denomination thought were the bare-minimums of Christianity, and then let it live out like a what today we think of as an open-source project, forking as needed. The downside of this is that, unless you go actively looking for it, many Baptists have lost elements of the greater Christian tradition, and we can have a very hard time getting things done, especially when we don't merely "agree to disagree".
Because of your videos I started to go to church again. Today was the first time in years. Went to a very rural Presbyterian church. So small of church they have rotating pastors, seems very conservative, I was by far the youngest person attending the service at 24. They had a screen to read off of for psalms. Overall very good vibes. They gave me a Bible cause I had a hard time understanding the kings James version. Only thing off about the church was inside there wasn’t any Presbyterian cross. Just normal crosses with some engravings. Other than that it was good. Thank you zoomer for making me more comfortable into returning to Christ
That's amazing, praise God! I pray that God keeps you in that church and makes it a blessing to you, as well as makes you to be a blessing to everyone there! God bless
Catholicism is easily S tier! It changed the whole world for better or for worse, Catholics discovered America, found that the solar system revolved around the whole sun, invented inoculations, created LOTR.
Catholicism although it has done more services to the entire world then any denomination. it’s still more of a work based religion. Lot of bad bad stuff has gone on with the popes, many of it’s pastors, and how it got raised into power. im not bashing Catholicism believe me. i honestly think it’s pretty cool how you guys think its the true way. i mean this with no disrespect but its like anime version of how you guys interpret the bible and stuff. with that being said S tier is a massive stretch. At absolute best it should be A tier imo.
The biggest gripe I would have regarding the baptism aspect is that regardless of age there is a sense of "Kingdom theology" in both birth baptisms and non. Both are done at different ages (although most are done as infants there are many exceptions). While non birth baptisms occur likely at different ages ( potentially more spread out in terms of age). But the difference is that true understanding of what the baptism process means to the individual isn't a bad thing, nor is it individualistic. I personally was baptised with a very large group of individuals who all felt a sense of comradedry and support from our fellow brothers and sister in Christ throughout the process. ..I loved the video and your work nonetheless! Very thankful to have you give such a In depth content across the board!
Solid video. It does always make me chuckle when people refer to doctrine that's only 500 years old as more "beautiful and true" than doctrine that is 2,000 years old... I do appreciate the fact that you don't shit on any of the traditions, though. Blessings to you.
1) older doesn't equal better 2) the answer would be that the doctrine is eternal - it's about Jesus Christ and the Gospel that saves. The argument from the Reformation was not that they were inventing a new doctrine, but returning back - reforming - to the older church traditions, after the modern church strayed.
I think it would be cool if you started a series of comprehensive videos that show the true extent of why heretical groups like LDS, Christian Science, JW, and “progressive churches” aren’t Christian and how they cause great harm to our faith.
With Orthodoxy he just took a surface level look and understanding. For example he did not explain that the filouque was not in the original nicene creed. It was later inserted by the latin, without approval from the whole church.
Yeah. He has zero idea of what he is saying. Having Methodist above Orthodoxy just tells you whats up. This is what happens when History and Basic Theology is removed.
@@aquilla2.087Yes but it was added because it is theologically sound and reflects the Christian belief. The filioque is not based on anything; it was invented by the Pope. There’s no biblical argument for it
The church I attend in Perth, western Australia is the Westminster Presbyterian Church, which is a sort of localised Presbyterian church present in Australia. It is very absent of iconography, and buildings are very simple and basic (in fact my church meets in an old workers union building hall). There are a few things I disagree with in terms of its organisational structure (is there really a good organisational structure?). But the theology is sound. When not in Perth, I attend an Anglican church (which my father was a paster of for many years), however i am quite particular about the Anglican churches that i attend, since they tend to either lean too fundamentalist, or too liberal. I think Presbyterian has the advantage of not having the political history the Anglican church had, and thus is less fundamentalist.
That would be nice, especially the "why I'm not Jewish" one. Muslim arguments are very weak in general but Jewish ones are actually good Like muslims unironically deny that the crucifixition happened lmao
@@Testimony_Of_JTF They also say Mohammed split the moon in half, even though _no one_ in the entire rest of the world at any point in any time has said anything even close to that. I haven't even seen someone try to defend it honestly, so maybe they just say it's a metaphor.
Theology aside, being Jewish is something you're usually born into, and converts are usually told "why would you want to be part of us when you have your own traditions as a gentile"? In other words, converting to Judaism is like converting to the pre-Christian religion of a Native American Tribe: It wasn't meant for you unless you have family ties to it. On the Muslim thing, there are probably many many reasons explained in the Bible and history for not converting.
@@adamandsethdylantoo They don't even think you will go to hell if you're not Jewish and follow all of the Law. The Covenant was with Israel, not anyone else. Just following the 7 laws of Noah is enough for some
Yeah! I also felt that, specially putting Baptists below Catholics, that whore from Rev. 17, but since he put Presbiterians first, and Catholics after the ones more agreeable with Calvinism heresy, since Protestants and reformed people came from Catholics, still holding some of their practices, that's the way to go for their tradition hupla of course. No wonder some reformed people are going to Catholics again! But us Baptists have a true tradition Based on the Bible, our heritage came from Anabaptists persecuted by both Catholics, and reformed people, we are the ones independent from the government and our begginings is before the reformation.
I’ve learned so much about other denominations and even my own (Lutheran) through you, and I greatly appreciate that. Your knowledge is truly a blessing. Lutherans take the Divine Service and the Holy Sacrament of Communion so seriously because we see it as a precious gift from Christ, and it should not be taken lightly. Yes, much in part of this is our belief that Christ’s body and blood is in this Sacrament, but also because, as our Catechism teaches, it is at the alter of Christ, receiving the supper of the Lamb, where we are reminded of His grace and fall to our knees in repentance, joy, and sincere appreciation for His sacrifice for our sins. We do it every Sunday, and as I’ve discussed with my wife sometimes, I often wish we could do it every day. That communion with God and feeling the Holy Spirit come over oneself when going to his table, it’s tear invoking (in a really good way) every time. It’s a constant reminder that God loves me, despite my sin, and he continues to baptize me and my siblings in Christ, every moment of our lives and bring us closer to Him. Joining Him in supper is a reminder that He will never depart us, Satan is doomed, death is defeated, and we are saved. Amen.
Im a catholic and it was so refreshing to hear such a fair take on catholicism. I disagree with your conclusions and I have seen early church fathers defend the papacy (maybe not in those terms but giving the church of Rome primacy), but i just want to give props for the respectable approach.
U just admitted that the papacy is made up. Bc as an Orthodox christians we believe in the primacy of the pope but not in later vatican innovations such as supremacy and infallibility!!
@@1969cmp I think I was fairly clear that maybe they would not use the term "Pope" per see, just as the early church didn't use the specific term trinity, but that the church of Rome was acknowledged as having a special primacy. I encourage you to follow the link below to read what many of the fathers have to say. You picked Irenaeus and Polycarp which is fairly random. Assuming you are correct about that, which you are not, {“But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition” (Against Heresies 3:3:2 [A.D. 189]).) -Iranaeus} that would not mean that no one believed in this primacy. It seems to me that the early church used the episcopacy in Rome to determine who was in and who was out of the faith so to speak. It was the central backbone, the rock if you will. Not to mention that being christian was dangerous so it is likely that they would obscure to some degree who was the bishop in each place to outsiders. So when you say the early church "had no Popes" that is fairly revisionist and its just bad historical understanding quite frankly. www.churchfathers.org
I'm Presbyterian, but my best friend in college was Catholic. Our discussions are a big part of why I'm very ecumenical today. I've always used the Nicene Creed as a litmus test in that I've always said "if you can honestly say the Nicene Creed you are a Christian, if you can't then I have questions".
@@maro_Jesusisking my apologies, I somehow managed to get the councils of chalcedon and nicea mixed together in my head. There's a couple of councils and centuries in-between them. I knew that but had a massive moment of stupidity. I'm going to edit my post to remove the erroneous part of it. Thank you for your correction.
honestly i really like the idea of holding tradition in the church, but i also don’t mind the modern stuff as long as their theology is good :)) im trying to learn more about theology and everything now that im more into my faith, but yeah 😮
I have to thank you for your videos. While not of the same denomination (I’m Roman Catholic), you have helped inspired me (along with many others) to take my faith more seriously.
for real, im not even orthodox and my eyes rolled back so far at how...i dont wanna say WRONG but super duper reductionist, and incomplete his explanation was.
I can appreciate the Orthodox Churches as a Catholic. The Churches are beautiful, the liturgies are varied, and a lot of Orthodox believers in my experience are very passionate.
@@forresthenry9535 of course you can appreciate it, catholic is the same coin from different side... they have the same history and traditions until the shcism, the prostestan history only started after the reformation...
Hey I enjoyed this...I've grown up in the Anabaptist tradition (in a Canadian Mennonite church) and I'd love to hear how you slot anabaptism into this (and the other) frameworks you've used!
Im a Baptist and i'm not offended in the least about what you are saying about us. I love your channel and what you are doing. After finding you and watching several of your videos, i had a talk with my kids about the different denominations and how i will not be upset in the least if they chose a different church. Its not really anything i considered before but i realize the importance. Your videos are now apart of our home bible studies. As long as my kids are true Christian and believe the fundamentals, they can decide which secondary issues are most important from what they learn and pray about. I love the church we attend and it's hard to classify us as Baptists honestly, it not anything like you discribed. However, its not the only Baptist church I've been to, so i understand completely where the generalizations come from. This is why i like this new church we are at. it's much less personal and more about the church, the people. Sacrements are important and mean something more, thats different than what i grew up learning about. Keep it up, you are doing great!
I’ve been to a few Baptist churches. My home church is baptist and I don’t think most of what he said was accurate. I understand that Baptist do not have as much of an emphasis on church tradition however this is because our belief system. What I disagree with is that he says Baptist have a “me and my Bible” mentality. Most baptists, however, clump to like minded friends to fill up there spiritual cup. Baptists are just more focused on going and making disciples. That’s why the life in the church seems empty compared to others. We are to serve out of the church.
@rormxrsh3028 thanks for explaining that. I'm so new to faith in God and couldn't quite place it why it bothered me, the me and my bible thing. All the Baptist pastors I follow and listen to, as well as my church, is very disciple centered and there is a strong community and missional atmosphere as well. I personally love it. Plus, I'm a little sore I felt like homie called us slow 😂
@@rormxrsh3028 Yeah this! That and apparently making from scratch and rejecting heritage? Please do correct me if I'm wrong since I'm not 100% certain here but from what I've seen, this is what I think we Baptists believe is that things went down like this: a) Pentecost happens, disciples spread the word and build the church b) The people who beleived in Jesus at the time, known as the church fathers, share what God has taught through the Holy Spirit and every experience and guidance is written down. c) Over the generations, these teachings are pased down through loyal servants of God. d) A corruption happens somewhere in the later generations, the corrupted being X and the remaining uncorrupted being Y e) This remaining uncorrupted sect of Christians who keep what the early Christians have taught is who are now known as the Baptists.
as a southern baptist i completely understand your critiques of the church. i recently have gotten serious about my faith and have repented from sin that has been in my life for a long time. im pretty sure God lead me to your Channel in just the right time to help me understand more about the faith, as i do not understand well just reading but by listening. I appreciate you. God bless
@@Nitsua2828what are these places… it might be different in some places. In some places the church seems to be a wooden hut because no one has the funds to build actual architecture.
I grew up in a pentecostal church and I always thought that it was fine or good enough. Between your videos and the Haunted Cosmos/Kings Hall podcast I think I need to find a reformed church
Wanted to thank you for helping me learn about Christianity and theology. Today I went to my first Catholic mass and absolutely loved it. In the end I ended up agreeing with their theology the most and it’s also the only church close to me that actually teaches the Bible. B tier for the win.
Catechism of the Catholic Church Paragraph #813 The Church is one because of her source: "the highest exemplar and source of this mystery is the unity, in the Trinity of Persons, of one God, the Father and the Son in the Holy Spirit." 259 The Church is one because of her founder: for "the Word made flesh, the prince of peace, reconciled all men to God by the cross, . . . restoring the unity of all in one people and one body." 260 The Church is one because of her "soul": "It is the Holy Spirit, dwelling in those who believe and pervading and ruling over the entire Church, who brings about that wonderful communion of the faithful and joins them together so intimately in Christ that he is the principle of the Church's unity." Unity is of the essence of the Church
Really glad to hear about your experience with the Catholic Mass. If you haven’t yet, I suggest you check out Trent Horn (Counsel of Trent) and Bishop Robert Barron (Word on Fire Ministries). They’re both excellent Catholic creators who have helped my husband (an RCIA candidate set to be received into the Church this coming Easter) and me (a cradle Catholic) to better understand the faith. Peace be with you!
@@MarianMetanoia Thank you! I’ll check them out, so far the ones I like the most are Pints with Aquinas (I like his long form videos) and Breaking in the Habit. I’ve heard of Council of Trent but haven’t watched his videos yet. I’m very interested in theology so I really appreciate your recommendations to some good Catholic RUclipsrs. Peace be with you!
@@Koyomix86 Cradle Catholic here and would like to welcome you home. Some other great resources are Catholic answers here on you tube. Jimmy Akin, Scott Hahn, Dr Brant Pitre, Father Mike Schmitz, Father Mark Goring,Father Donald Calloway are just a few of the wonderful people of God to lead you to The Church founded by Jesus Christ Our Lord and Saviour. May God Bless you on your journey and never ending quest to follow Jesus. Also the joy you will experience receiving Jesus Christ truly present in the Holy Eucharist is beyond anything you can imagine. Viva Cristo Rey 🙏✝️
Lutheran sees Lutheranism only in A tier: What!? Lutheran sees Catholicism in B tier: Oh, okay. We're good. But joking aside, this was an edutaining video.
I'm Lutheran and what he said about appealing to mystery may be true, but I see this as a strength, because some if the doctorine that comes from say calvanists and even catholics, comes from them going to logical conclusions based on human reason and wisdom even if scripture doesnt confirm it or even speaks against it. Lutherans on the other hand dont go farther in doctorine then where svmcripture ends, we say amen and are content with leaving room for mystery where I believe there should be. I think 1 corinthians actually warns against the things calvsnists do when they try to figure everything out just for the sake for having an explanation for everything. We shouldn't expect to have an explanation for everything, but when god tells us something through the bible, we should say amen. Deuteronmy speaks about this too.
Loved this video. I’m a catholic and am part of a men’s small group at a non-denominational church (undercover baptist) and will pass this video along to my group.
I was just confirmed catholic. I was baptized methodist, then was a presby calvinist for 10 years. I never would've expexted i'd end up catholic but when god takes your hand and says lets go for a walk, you follow. You dont pull away... i have to say after a year and RCIA classes and daily study. Im extremely confident that catholic is S tier.
I'm trying to find time to begin my confirmation process for catholicism. I was baptized at birth in a Presbyterian church and went atheist for 7 years, then went nondenominational for 1 year until I finally found my place in catholicism.
@stephenlee3406 amen! I made the mistake of waiting for an announcement at mass about RCIA. It never came and I started months late but I'm a studious person. I'd call the diocese and ask about RCIA at that parish if you can't find answers after mass.
@channellift2775 The first point to fall for me was irresistible grace. Christ laments over the lost at Jerusalem, he said how I wouldve gathered you like a hen gathers her chick's but you would not. To me, I don't see how irresistible grace can work and that passage be true. Christ would've wanted to save them but he refused to do so? If unconditional election is true than there's nothing the good people did to deserve his grace and nothing the bad people did to deserve his wrath. If total depravity is true then we are created dead in sin and incapable of doing good things on our own. Final analogy to show how disturbing their theology is if you think it through. I have two kids, imagine I elect one to be successful and the other I want to go to prison to teach the kid I like a lesson. For the one child to be successful, I would have to teach her right from wrong, business sense, string values, id hold her hand and show her the right way. If I wanted the other kid to go to prison, I'd do the opposite. Withhold grace, punish wantonly, neglect them, and withhold love and discipline from him. Now if the one kid went to college and got a great career and the other went to prison forever what kind of parent would you say that I am? A good parent for destroying my sons life and any future he might have for the sake of my daughter? No but that's how calvinists think... that it's ok for God to withhold his love and grace to punish the non elect so he can show his elect how much he loves them over the other lovers. If that were true jesus wouldn't have lamented over Jerusalem, he would've laughed maniacally like some super villain. Calvinists are LOCO I can't believe it took me 10 years to see it. No calvinist thinks about that stuff they just repeat God is sovereign and it makes any evil go away in their mind. It's a powerful brainwashing tool
Fair play for going through all of this! However I find it interesting that my knowledge of Baptists/Congregationalists/Anglicans and a lot of others is completely different to yours. I've grown up in what I guess is a Baptist kinda church (we just call ourselves evangelicals) but some of the assumptions you've made about these denominations is not at all how I would see it. But a lot of them are perfectly correct.
I go to and serve at a non-denominational church that is essentially what I would call "Bapti-costal". My Pastor was born and raised in a Pentecostal Holiness Church (his dad was a Pastor), and I once asked him about the reason why speaking in Tongues was so common in the Pentecostal Church, and his explanation was that it's expected. In the same way we expect a worship session, and a sermon, the Pentecostals expect someone to break out in Tongues. Now there are a few things to consider. One, they didn't treat it lightly, and stood by the guidance given by Paul in terms of Spiritual Gifts. If someone was not interpreting what was being said in Tongues, they would shut it down. Another thing to remember is that while it may not be divine, it *is* real. Their passion is genuine, and they honestly believe that the random gibberish they are saying as it comes to mind is from God. He also mentioned that behind closed doors, he knew of people in other denominations that have had an experience speaking in Tongues, one of which being an Anglican. One event involved a missions trip in Moldova in which the Romanian interpreter was indisposed for the day (he was sick). The missionary still gave his message, albeit in English, and Moldovans *understood* what he was saying. They reacted to parts of the sermon as if though they understood, because they did, despite not knowing English. So many people have this idea in their heads that "Speaking in Tongues" is just spouting off gobbledy nonsense. Its actually the Gift of the Spirit to speak in languages unknown to you, or understand them, as the case was here.
Alternate title: Comparing every Christian denomination to Presbyterianism Edit: I know he’s a Presbyterian. I know he says it’s going to be a bias video. I just thought my alternate title would also be fitting for the video.
@@lauson1ex literally 10 seconds into the video he says that this is basically going to be a video comparing how similar they are to his church. That's about as upfront as you can get.
As a recent convert to Orthodoxy(I really should pretend to teach) but I would like to share a paradox i experienced. When I was Protestant (and I graduated from a Protestant seminary) I found when I came across another Christian I disagreed with, on something important (and often even ‘what’ was important was the contention) I was encountering a heretic. The problem is that they not only represent their own tradition but May misrepresent the ecumenical, unseen church. Since becoming Orthodox I don’t run into any heretics. I just run into people from a different tradition. They are operating with the knowledge that God has given them and may be closer to Christ than I am. I can hope that I am representing Christ to them, but my job is not to convince anyone.
Representing Christ to the world rather than brute-force convincing anyone... I think this is maybe a distinction that I've been trying to wrap my head around in my dialogues with my co-workers. I am a Catholic, and I am learning how to accept that arguments are not what convert people. God does, and He does so insofar as I let Him act through me and I try to see what He has in others and draw that out.
As far as tier lists go this is definitely one of the most useful ones. The actual ranking doesn't matter so much (to me) as the reasoning you give for each placement.
What is most interesting about this list, is how you've scored these denominations entireline according to your own true feelings, not according to any doctrine or dogma. I think that's very strong and honest. - And i also think it's logical that your own denomination is at the top; if it weren't, you should switch.
Excellent summary. As a Lutheran, I've never hear any in my congregation say anythint disparaging about Presbyterians. We're critical of Calvinism, but we highly respect fellow confessional Reformation churches. Thank for your work on this channel. A great source of church knowledge.
My church is considered non-denominational and we adhere to the Nicene Creed along with taking the Eucharist every month at the end of the month I'm still learning more about my faith, I'd love to go to school but unfortunately I'm in a position where school is not possible financially and in a sense physically.... Or mental health wise so most of my learning has been through the classes at my church has offered an online classes for free or RUclips videos that I found to be legitimate. And I like how you took the time to make this and do this video so Im grateful for that
I think I might switch the tiers of Presbyterian and Dutch Reformed, simply because the first Q&A of the Heidelberg Catechism is the most beautiful expression of what it means to be a Christian that I’ve ever heard.
I really appreciate that you talk about the different denominations from an academic/theological perspective rather than a political perspective, which seems to have become the norm on social media. Your videos are great to watch because not only are you extremely educated on the topic, but it’s evident you’re really passionate about it, too. Keep up the great work!
As an Orthodox teen it drives me crazy how many misguided, naive, and arrogant Orthodox Christians there are online. I've been Orthodox since I was 5, and having grown up in an OCA parish I've always been taught to be empathetic and loving, and that most people who aren't Orthodox either haven't been expoesed to it, OR have been exposed to a warped version and completely turned off. It breaks my heart when I hear people talk badly about our faith (not that you were unkind in any way, it was just clear you have probably had some unpleasant online experiences with "Orthodox" people, who likely don't actually know what we believe). I'm of course still growing in my faith, but talking to almost any priest answers a lot of questions. If you happen to become curious, I would highly recommend Ancient Faith Ministries. Blogs, podcasts, and books all containing quality information about the truth and beliefs of the Orthodox faith.
That's just a problem within new converts of any religion (more notoriously, atheists), specially with how being a religious traditionalist is the new counter culture amongst the youth.
Thanks for posting this comment. I've come around to Christianity after spending a few years extensively reading various philosophers and theologians, and I'm hoping to become part of the Orthodox church. There are some Orthodox people online who are hands-down the nicest people I've ever met, but I will admit I was somewhat put off in the earlier days by the kinds of people you describe. It was primarily a sort of "you MUST believe this or else!" attitude, or a "if you don't agree with me then you're not Orthodox". To be fair there are people like that in every group, but I can just ignore them more easily!
@Skin_Man absolutely! If you are moving towards the Orthodox faith, first off welcome and congratulations! Second, if you haven't already found a parish, do! The sooner you're relying less on online interaction, the better. I'm not qualified to judge the characteristics of each jurisdiction, but I'm in an OCA parish and everyone I've met in our deanery are the loveliest, welcoming, and warm people and my best friends. The harsh, judgemental "Orthodox Christians" are NOT a representation of the Church as a whole, and that's one of the many flaws in social media-bringing out the worst in people who think their anonymity gives them permission to say outrageous and hurtful things.
@@miyannapittman5580 Thank you for the kind words! I'm in rural New Zealand at the moment, so my options are somewhat limited, but I'll be moving to the UK in the future and I'm hoping to find more of a community there. My biggest problem is that, in everything I do, I tend to isolate myself and go off and "do my own thing". I can appreciate the value of community, it's just something I'm not familiar with.
As a recent convert to Orthodoxy (Antiochian), this comment resonates with me quite a bit. I am 27, so not old, but I listen to many of the younger converts who in their zeal for the faith completely shoot themselves in the foot with how they approach non-Orthodox Christians. Do not get me wrong, I think the differences of Orthodoxy from other Christian traditions are very important. But instead of making a bludgeon to beat other Christians, we should be using it as a starting point for a dialogue on why those differences are important.
Hiya mate, greetings from the UK (Manchester to be specific)! This is a great video. Just wanted to chuck my ten pence in to let you know that we Pentecostals don't deny the trinity; this is actually the first time I've heard the suggestion that we do? Maybe a USA/UK difference? I also don't know if it's because our pastor is the head of the denomination in the UK so we're very spoilt, but our church network is surprisingly intellectual - many of our leaders are doctors of theology and we have a Bible college attached to our church. Agree with you about things being a bit unorganised though! We need better discipleship for the volunteers who lead within church settings. I also take the point about worship, but traditionalists said the same thing about pipe organs when they were first introduced from the beer halls! 😅 Keep making this great content, mate. It's brilliant.
Being something of a non-denominational/Baptist-lite myself, I actually appreciated your take on it. I appreciate that you shouted out individuals who are very serious about their faith but also pointed out that there’s a lot of issues with the denomination as a whole. Good take.
You are an excellent channel. Can you make an expanded video where you can do smaller yet interesting trinitarian and non-trinitarian of another 22 denominations or traditions? Useful charts has great denominations list; I added them from there and some other important once I felt he missed. Anabaptists (Mennonites), Brethren, Plymouth Brethren, Irvingian, Higher Life (Christian and Missionary Alliance), Old Catholics, Two by Twos, Holiness Movement, Moonies, Kimbanguism, Unity (New Thought), Swedenborgian, Christian Science, Anthroposophy (Christian Community), Spiritualist Church, World Mission Society, Eastern Lighting, Messianic Jews, General Conference Church of God (Binitarian heresy), Spiritual Christians (Russian Doukhbors) La Luz del Mundo, Christadelphians, Looking forward to more of your work!
The baptist second London confession in 1689 is very similar to the Westminster confession. I would say that the history of baptist churches (especially those that ended up in America) have these as there routes as opposed to the Anabaptists in central and northern Europe P.s. thanks for all the videos and keep up the good work 👍
As someone who was raised in the Pentecostal church up in Canada (albeit predominately rural Canada) , I feel a radical disconnect between what I hear about Pentecostalism from American youtubers and what I experienced growing up.
Depending on which organization you were with and how much it was influenced by the Latter Rain/Charismatic movement, you might have had a more traditional Pentecostal upbringing. I would need to know more about your church's history to begin to guess.
As a fellow Canadian, (Canadian Baptist) I feel like Canadian Protestant denominations just tend to be less extreme. It’s too cold to be crazy here lol.
@@jacobh2147... Biblically , Salvation is NOT based on faith + works ...but WORKs are the fruits of faith...They are NOT one of the "tools" required to get to heaven as what the roman catholic succession teaches...in contrast to what God teaches in His Word...even in the book of James when read in context... 🤔
@@jacobh2147 That faith which isn't backed by works is not genuine faith. James even quotes the same Scripture as Paul does in Romans 4. James 2:23 "And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God." Abraham had faith and righteousness before he offered up Isaac, but his works made manifest and verified his faith. James 2 is about the hypocrisy of the false convert and how true faith works in the Christian, as was also described in Hebrews 11 talking about the faith of Old Testament saints. The context makes this very clear if you read on from James 1 talking about being doers of the word, that vain hearers deceive themselves, yet saying that it's the engrafted word which when received saves the soul. It's very clear especially in Galatians 5 and in Romans 4, that if you work for salvation your reward is not of grace but of debt, and that Christ is of no effect to you if you seek to be justified by the law.
@@anon5075 you are mot justified by the law neother by your works it is faoth but that faith must be kept alive by works, that we do not earn salvation for no one deserves it but we prove and maintain our faith ny exercising Gods will, not all those who call unto him Father, Father will be recognized, also we have to acknowledge Jesus before all so he does the same in front of the Angels, another example of keeping faith through works
Actually orthodox churches are humbling because of the icons of Christ on roofs overlooking you. Orthodox is also the original church that hasn't contradicted the creed.
As far as differences among continental reformed churches, one could be whether theology was more derived from Farel/Calvin/de Bèze from Geneva (this would include the Dutch, the French, the Valdese, and the Swiss churches of Geneva and Neuchâtel) or derived from Zwingli/Bullinger (most of the other Swiss reformed).
I was raised in a Pentecostal church and I believe that everyone’s experience is based on the the actual church. Many churches were different from what I believed. Some churches really encouraged speaking in tongues while others were only based on your own experience with God. I respect your opinion nonetheless. Great video! God bless you.
Pentecostals are the only churches that have real fellowship. All the other churches have disconnected communities and are weekend Warrior types. The pentecostals need to introduce communion tho.
@@juandoming6688I would kinda agree with you in that Pentacostals have a much greater emphasis on fellowship, however my church, which is Pentacostal, partakes in communion every month.
Grew up pentacostal, we didnt really focus too much on theology we were all about the spiritual gifts we had bible study, choir etc. But i did go to a oneness church, and everyone was speaking in tongues at the Same time. I had a migraine due to the chaos, but thankfully the holy spirit helped me rebuke the gathering. My friends wife said it wasn't as Chaotic as usual 😅 I was like "the bible says no more then 3 should speak in tongues... and only if their's interpretation."
Thoughtful video! There's one point about Catholicism that I'd like to push back on: Redeemed Zoomer said, "I can't find any arguments that the Church Fathers believed in the papacy." The notion that the bishop of Rome is the principle of unity for the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church is in fact fairly present in the writings of the Church Fathers. There are many examples in the first two centuries that indicate the primacy of the bishop of Rome, but St. Irenaeus of Lyons (writing in 189) lays out an especially explicit papal doctrine: "We put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vanity, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings, by indicating that Tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every church agree with this church, on account of its preeminent authority, that is, the faithful everywhere, in so far as the apostolic Tradition has been preserved continuously by those [faithful men] who exist everywhere." Other ante-Nicene witnesses to the papacy include Clement of Rome, Hermas of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, Dionysius of Corinth, Cyprian of Carthage, Fermilion of Caesarea, and Eusebius of Caesarea. Augustine himself wrote, "The consent of people and nations keeps me in the Church; so does her authority, inaugurated by miracles, nourished by hope, enlarged by love, established by age. The succession of priests keeps me, beginning from the very seat of the apostle Peter, to whom the Lord, after his Resurrection, put in charge of feeding his sheep, down to the present episcopate [of Pope Siricius]." For an expansive catalog of the Church Fathers' ecclesiology and views on questions like apostolic succession and the papacy, check out Jimmy Akin's fantastic compilation: www.amazon.com/gp/product/1933919345/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=jimmyakincom-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399369&creativeASIN=1933919345
Very helpful video, thank you! Some methodological pushback: there are many Presbyterian denominations, same with Baptist and Lutheran. Thoughts on the deeper nuances on this point?
I’d love to see RUclipsrs from each of the denominations do their own tier videos like this. Intriguing way of seeing how the different denominations relate to/view each other. Edit: actually more just the denominations in the S-C tiers would be interesting to see if they did videos, maybe some D tier ones, but probably not the F tier ones. They might just say everyone is wrong and not even have tiers for them lol.
Thank you for the fair description of Pentecostalism. Yes it’s true there are a lot of heresies like word of faith that tend to be Pentecostal. But there are very thoughtful biblically sound people within Pentecostalism like Mike Winger and Michael Brown.
As a former atheist and current-fence sitter with regards to religion, I can tell you we absolutely agree on the importance of church architecture. I used to pass this new age church on my way to work everyday. They essentially bought out an old warehouse and turned it into a church. Now on one hand, I suppose there's beauty in that: people coming together to worship and build bonds in the bones of a dead-end business. And the good that's done there is a net positive, I'm sure. But c'mon. If you're gonna worship the Lord, it makes sense to create the coolest fuckin' place you can imagine for doing it. Not a stadium, not a warehouse, not an old school, but a damn treasure. A place you WANT to go. A place you think about even when you're not there. Beauty can be a lure, there's no denying, but it can also be a powerful ally. I just know if I ever convert, it won't be to a denomination that worships in a mall. XD Great video man, love your content. Incredibly informative.
Hey don’t think too hard on “converting” just take steps to be open to God. I grew up in church but struggled with not “feeling it” but it wasn’t until I had legit experiences that I was like oh.. this is not a thought exercise, God is personal of you let Him be. But I think too many people act like or even teach that you gotta fix yourself before you can be a Christian, but it’s literally the opposite. There’s lots of freedom in true worship. And there’s lots of beauty to be seen when you view the world from the perspective of not only believing in an intelligent designer but knowing that the designer is personal.
Having been raised Mennonite as a kid and then a more pentecostal nondenominational as a teen young adult, I loved your term for the Non Denominational’s being more “the mercenaries” of the body of Christ 😂 or Baptist with a small “b”, its Spot on! The more that I have studied the bible and the history of the church the more reformed I have become. Thanks for putting this together. Also I do think the Roman Catholic should move up to tier A
I'm from an pentecostal church and I'm very impressed by how different my church is from your description "I think this is because that i'm from a different country (Brazil)". In my church we believe in trinity, we don't focus in speaking tongues, and we focus more in the theology and studies of the bible. Looks like a mix of the baptist and the presbyterian ngl, but it's really true that we have a proper "church tradition" what in my 100% fair and not biased opinion is a great thing just focusing on the bible, real studies and theology alone. edit: we don't have a church tradition
As a Catholic, I was told that Calvinists believe God choses who he saves and who he punishes after death, and therefore that he doesn't love all humans, is it really true?
Some are and other aren’t. Splits have been a thing, better yet apostasy has been a thing for awhile. And liberalism (not the political type) is heresy. So I don’t consider heretical churches to be a part of the body of Christ.
Guys I think this guy is a Protestant
lol
😂
he told already
@@user-jy8np7zx3zhe knows 😊 he was just making a joke my friend, I hope youre having a great day btw
@@joshua2400 thanks, wish you the same
Nobody asked, but I am orthodox
Kyle is about to make a 40 minute reply to this tier list.
😂
“What he is talking about ???orthodoxy is the TRUE church this is why ALL prostenants are dumb illogical morons “
would be his response summed up in a nutshell
Good
@@tobiasbourne9073 So he can throw in more arguments from silence against the Filioque?
Good, Kyle doing the right thing
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28
❤❤❤❤❤ Amen
As an ex-Mormon, I was a member from birth until 29, when I finally understood the theology of the Bible I was appalled by the belief systems of the LDS church. I'm ashamed to say it took me so long to realize. I still haven't settled on a definitive denomination yet, but I'm glad to be on the path to true Christianity.
Dont beat yourself up freind, Christ was beaten for you, and the important part is that you know the truth -now- (that Jesus is the Messiah). God said, I will redeem the years the locust has eaten and the theif has stolen.
I am in the exact same boat and have recently come to believe that the Orthodox Church is the answer. Definitely worth your time to attend one and judge for yourself.
Really happy to hear that man, I honestly pray for Mormons to knock on my door so I can invite them in for tea and desperately try to save them.
I relate to you I grew up as a JW I've been looking into joining a church recently and leaving my old life behind :')
Welcome home! Grace and peace be with you!
As a catholic thank you for not calling us witch burners or papists. It’s such a breath of fresh air hearing different denominations being polite and fair to each other
LMAO papist
@@christisrisen83 ...
lmaooooo@@christisrisen83
but... we are papists
As Christian was an insult at first and we embraced it, lets do the same with papist.
As a 14 girl who is still trying to figure out everything this video and all of your videos help explain a lot. Both of my parents aren’t Christian so there isn’t a way for me to go to Church. Its very sad and i’m looking for a way to go. But thank you for helping me understand all the different branches.
Thanks for your comment! Just keep praying and go to church when you can. Praying that God guides you!
We shall pray for you!
As a 13 year old I hope you find your way to Christianity and that your parents will eventually understand.
Praying for you. Seek God and He will provide for you! Jesus is the way, truth, and life!! I hope this encourages you to pray 🙏 May your life be changed forevermore
I know it sounds corny, but its true when they say that in heaven they celebrate when someone turns to the Lord. Your perseverance in a time like this will help you in a lifetime of following Jesus, I promise.
In defence of the Orthodox church:
First of all, categorizing it as "Eastern" opposes the fact that it was the religion of the first Western state, except if you meant it in the sense of "Eastern European".
Secondly, the arts and sciences were very much present inside the Easten Roman Empire, the explosion of scientific and artistic progress in Western Europe, where Catholicism was prevalent, happened after the diaspora of Greek intellectuals from Constantinople introduced Europe to a wealth of ancient Greek manuscripts.
Thirdly, nationalism amongst Orthodox Christians is neccessary for our survival; the Eastern Roman Empire served as the bulwark against Persian and Muslim expansion, giving Central Europeans multiple centuries to develop their own cultures and states.
I never thought as an ex-Christian atheist who especially has issues with Reformed theology that I would love this channel. But you're very engaging, fair, honest, and do a great job explicitly stating your priorities as a Christian (i.e. Jesus as physically resurrected savior). I can really respect that and I'm subscribing!
Very nice!
God bless you!
Jesus loves you! He died on the cross for you. Please don’t take chances with your soul.
Romans 10:9 KJV
Come back
@@EzraCansler I think a lot of open minded atheists/agnostics find coercion by fear a pretty weak method of convincement. In my eyes, if God can appear before Satanists & murderers & such and convert them during their lifetime, I'll wait for him to get around to me and provide me with such an experience.
As a catholic and engineer, I’m surprised he didn’t talk about Roman Catholic architecture! Note Dame is what made me want to become an engineer!
That's a very beautiful reason to want to become an engineer. Glad to hear!
Can't get enough of them flying buttresses…
Some of the most fulfilling work I did in construction was that for the church, i miss it.
As a historian, I found my way into the Catholic faith from a Protestant tradition. As John Henry Newman famously said: "to be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant."
@@islandblindI am catholic and that quote is sadly taken out of context. Newman wrote that in an essay critiquing a faction in the CofE that disregarded all church history and he wrote it while still an Anglo-Catholic, not in union with the Pope. What he means by Protestant is not the same as what we catholics in this age associate with the term. Still I would agree with your interpretation that history is clear that the Catholic Church is what it claims to be. Still recommend not using that quote as it is taken horribly out of context by Protestants and catholics alike. God bless you
I'm Orthodox and i must say that nothing in an Orthodox church is there purely for beauty. In the historic Christian faith it has always been understood that church is a sacramental place that is set apart. Images in the church direct us toward the reality that what us depicted is the visoble reality beyond what we see. In Hebrews it says we are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses, which is illustrated in the iconlography of the chirch.
The architecture also reflects our beliefs from the dome representing heaven above to the crucifix showing the reality of Christs sacrifice to the Resurrection and enthronement of Christ.
Its not there just for pretty. The Bible tells us to worship the Lord in beauty and holiness.
yeah also Orthodox churches line up closest to prechristian temples, and since we are basically carrying on the OT tradition in light of Christ's ministry, it doesn't make sense to reinvent that which doesn't need to be. A first century christian would feel most at-home in an Orthodox church, which is exactly the timelessness all of christianity should strive for.
Precisely! love this
The 1st Century Born Again New Creations were slack in removing themselves from the Temple traditions BUT they finally did till the Almighty had them destroyed, UNFORTUNATELY those hijacked the Temple trappings and other stuff to recreate their own idolatry @@jansi8478
☦️❤️
We are the original church also, we are pre-denominational. I don't know why we are even on here since these are christian denominations.
Genuine question regarding the baptism criticism in the baptist section.
You said
"they think salvation needs to be a personal individual choice"
My mind jumped to Romans 10:9-10 which seems to indicate that salvation is a very personal choice. Obviously it can be influenced by others, but its ultimately up to the individual.
Where do you see in scripture that it is not a personal choice?
Also, You said
"baptism is about citizenship within the kingdom of God, and you become a citizen of your country at birth"
How could heavenly citizenship can't precede salvation when the choice for salvation hasn't been made yet/if at all?
Baptism the way it's taught to me, is that no one knows what you are thinking, so how can people in the church know you're saved, you may say it and everyone may very well believe that you are saved but by being Baptized we are telling the congregation that we believe Jesus Christ died on the cross and rose on the third day for our sins
Yes!!
I hope he replies to this comment. Because I too am Baptist. I believe in that personal relationship with God and in a lot of ways I think we and Lutherans can talk about alot (I like how Lutherans do it). The criticism of “idolizing preachers” I can understand and it is a problem, however that personal connection to God, is really what brings Baptist home for me. We are to point to Jesus, we are patient in the conversion of non believers. It’s all about nurturing and taking your time and maturing into the word of God
Presbyterians - Baptism = Salvation through Covenant + OSAS = Any sin a person wants to practice the rest of his life means the person is saved. That is why Presbyterian U.S.A. logically from their TULIP system believe in Gay Marriage, as the other Heretical "Christian" churches do in the same category. See ECLA "Full Communion."
so what happens when a baby or young child dies? they just go to hell?
I’m a (Trinitarian) Pentecostal and what you said about us is unfortunately spot on! I wish more Pentecostals would actually read the clear instructions on how to properly use spiritual gifts!
“If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order.”
1 Corinthians 14:37-40 KJV
Side note: I too prefer the more traditional hymns over the contemporary stuff.
Don't leave what is a sound Christian community for Larps. Pentecostals get alot of things right. They have true community, fellowship. They just have to respect the communion more.
@@juandoming6688true on the communion part because I am in a Pentecostal church and we rarely do communion. It’s mostly one in a while but always on Christmas and Easter
Yeah if the lord has it on your heart to interpret then you need to do so and I think if someone did speak in tongues loudly during preaching then that would be disorderly ✝️❤️god bless
I’m a Greek Orthodox Christian living in America. I’ve been one since birth. Usually, I skip to the part where you talk about my religion because nobody talks about us. When you talked about our churches, and how beautiful you thought they where. But, a couple things I feel are a bit off. The Orthodox are extremely theologically conservative. We essentially untouched by “modern” ideals. That’s mostly because we don’t have many followers from America. Anyways, our churches (in my opinion) are the most beautiful of all the denominations. But the icons have way more meaning than you think. A picture is worth a thousand words. We’d dedicate part of our bible studies to icons in our church, by just pointing at them and explaining. Explaining takes a long time. Other than that, I hope you have a great day man. Love the vids. I also chuckled when you said we tend to be more nationalistic. It’s true, but I had something else in mind. Can’t tell if that was a joke or not.
Agreed, Protestants innovated everything. Many Protestants today would believe the disciples and Church fathers to be heretics since the reformers changed so much doctrine.
The Seventh Ecumenical Council expresses two sides to the doctrine of Iconography: Iconography as a didactic tool and iconography as a witness to the deification of the material. The first of these doctrines is heavily leaned into by Renaissance Catholicism and Iconophilic Protestantism. In this iteration of the argument, Icons are defended as useful educational tools that communicate in their beauty an essential spiritual truth. It is/was an argument that held particular sway in the medieval period when literacy was low. The second, however, has had a far greater impact in the Orthodox world. This argument explains that in the Incarnation, the divine Godhead for the first time deified the worldly, human and material. Christ, in his divinity taking on our humanity, raises our humanity to the level of the divine. Our humanity is raised to divinity through Theosis just as an iron in contact with a flame takes on the flame's heat without losing its material or shape. Icons are the ultimate witness to this process of theosis. The true icon is transformed in a eucharistic act of dedication to God from the mere matter of paint and wood into that same matter glowing with the glory of God. This is the substance of the beauty of an icon. This theological belief is also precisely how we understand the witness of the saints or even the divine beauty expressed in each person. This is the reason that in the Liturgy, the incense is applied both to the painted icons (Lesser icons as they are called) and to the people in the congregation (the Greater Icons as they are crafted by God and show the theology if Icon in our very bodies and form). It is this second argument which the Western World has significantly missed and, in many ways, through an understanding of the relationship between icon and glorification we grasp the inner theology of humanity's deification.
Orthodox Church is pre-denominational.
I'm Roman Catholic and I looove my Orthodox brothers and sisters! You indeed have a very beautiful tradition 😊🙏🏻
Been going on a dive into what goes into making icons. I knew it was a process, but it's more akin to a trade and a lifestyle than making just an illustration.
As a catholic, I am so glad someone finally explained that the catholic church wasn't this barbaric tribe who burned women who could do math and people who disagreed with them, and actually tells that it actually contributed so much to science and theology. While also being very good to many people and was one of the main contributers to spreading the word of God. Thank you.
I can’t believe he didn’t put Catholic as A or S 😭
@@JessePinkman808I was expecting him to put Catholicism in B.
S is reserved for his own tradition and A would have been too full if he put Catholic there
@@lesinge8868 Then if his own traditional religion has to be the only S, then Catholicism should totally be an A tier because it was the church founded by Jesus Christ
@@JessePinkman808 he literally addresses this in the video and the problems catholicism has, which gives an appropriate B tier
@@rockik7844 I didn’t watch the whole thing. What “problems” does my church have.?
as a Baptist, bro made 90% of that up 💀
pssst. that's why he's making a tier list (yknow, his opinion)
He actually didn't. He's describing the codified doctrine of the Baptist denomination. Maybe you just don't believe it, but he was very true to the Baptist professions of faith. (I went to Baylor.)
@@strangementalitypaperYT ok
@@strangementalitypaperYT fair point
Really, what's kind of funny to me as a Baptist, is that the things he says about some of the Baptist cult followings if certain Pastor's is something I've heard many of my fellow Baptists decry.
I will say though that Baptists are necessarily anti-tradition. We are anti-tradition that isn't supported by scripture.
Cool to see people talk about these things civilly. Thanks for sharing.
I am a member at an Independent Baptist Church. I can honestly say it is the most Christ-centered, theologically rich, congregation led church I have ever been to. I’ve been to a lot of baptist churches, and I don’t fit in very well, and agree with your assessment on most baptist churches. But the body of my church has extremely intelligent and wise God fearing people. The point of my comment is that sometimes the Lord leads you to places you never thought you’d go to. I’ve been blessed. Be well ❤
Finally a comment that isn’t a catholic or orthodox 14 year old who hates Protestants and evangelicals simply because of their ego and think they are “redpilled, gigachad and based” because some youtuber said they are.
Usually the problem with baptist churches is that they remove a lot of tradition and then add in their own tradition and treat it like it’s scriptural.
Many baptist churches force their women to dress borderline Amish with skirts or dresses only. They force their members to donate 10% of their paychecks utilizing fear tactics and prosperity gospel. They say you cannot drink alcohol in any amount, tattoos damn you to hell, and they tell you that you cannot be friends with those outside your cult denomination.
Many baptist churches are great. West Baptist Church in Florida is an amazing church. But many baptist churches tend to stick to being an “IFB” Church, which like it or not, is not far from being considered a cult.
Baptism is for lazy Christians
He only knows what he’s being told about Baptists.
I think one thing missed about Baptists by mainline church commentators is about our traditions. Our independence is our tradition. We still feel united, generally speaking; however, don't accept top-down organization. Some of the critiques are spot on, though, lol. I would also add the extreme fundamental baptists to the d or f part of the chart since they often make minor issues on par with salvation itself.
As a Pentecostal I'm REALLY surprised you haven't mentioned much about the heresy that hijacks the Pentecostal churches. Word of Faith/New Age Theology is rampant in Pentecostal churches.
Mind to explain. What
Mind to explain what those things mean ? I thought the problem with pentecostal was the prosperity theology
I would love to hear the longer version of this.
I think he might be referring to the mainline churches breaking away from the original theology of the denominations. The pentacostals got hit hard a few years ago, presbys too. The methodists just split in half, and the southern baptists just had a very public debate.
@@icarojose6316 Word of faith theology is the same as prosperity theology :)
7:00 While I agree to a degree, the reason why modern protestant churches are so simple is partially to be able to build as quickly and efficiently wherever a building is needed and not have to spend years on a fancy building that looks pretty. The vast majority of non-denominational churches I've been to started as a bible study group or something like that from one church that expanded to the point where they needed to purchase a building to make their own meeting place, which, all things considered, is a VERY Biblical way for a church to start and is how all of the Early Churches started in some shape or form where the "church" wasn't necessarily a building but a community. It's very pragmatic, all things considered, but I think we are going to be seeing a reversal soon enough as many Protestants have been complaining about it for years.
46:10 I've never heard anyone from a non-denominational church say that churches need to be decentralized. Again, non-denominational churches usually form from a community that WANTS a church but can't go through all of the work to ask a normal denomination to step in do things for them. Most non-denominational churches are local grassroots churches where there was a necessity to make a church for one reason or another. A lot of larger church denominations do suffer from bureaucracy and not being able to work as effectively or quickly as they could, as I recall issues in the Methodist churches over this. The larger an institution, the more money is absorbed to do very simple tasks. Non-denominational churches excel at being able to start up quick and get to the point really fast. All of the fastest growing churches I've seen were non-denominational where I knew one that went from only a few dozen people to thousands within a decade because there wasn't any bureaucracy slowing them down to get things working as fast as possible (they were also biblically sound too).
However, as mentioned, non-denominational churches suffer heavily from each congregation or church not being held to any sort of authority above them. I think Non-denominational churches are an example of being a risky gamble because they can be INCREDIBLY good at catering to the exact needs of a given community but also can suffer greatly in terms of theology.
These videos help me understand a lot more about denominations. My family has historically been part of so many different denominations, just going back to my grandparents there is Catholic, Orthodox, Mormon, Presbyterian and United. Being from a very rural area, there was only 1 church in town, a Mennonite church too. Working things out to find a denomination has been quite tough so understanding denominations better really helps.
1:37 Presbyterian (S)
5:02 Dutch Reformed (A)
7:29 Anglican (A)
10:57 Lutheran (A)
14:32 Methodist (B)
17:11 Catholic (B)
21:03 Congregationalist (B)
23:49 Baptist (C)
29:20 Orthodox (C)
35:36 Oriental (C)
37:52 Assyrian (D)
40:26 Church of Christ (D)
40:26 Seventh Day Adventist (D)
41:45 Quaker (D)
42:32 Pentecostal (D)
44:47 Non-Denominational (D)
46:21 Moravian (B)
46:54 Latter Day Saints (F)
46:54 Jehoveh’s Witnesses
46:54 Igleisa Ni Christo (F)
48:23 Unitarians (F)
49:46 Radical Progressives (F)
nice
Buddy hes already divided the sections.
U forgot coptiics
Thanks for your effort.
@@chumchumlolyes but the non denominational cover five denominations and Lutheran covers Methodist, and he was just being helpful
As a man raised Greek Orthodox with strong connections with Russia it was indeed interesting to listen to your opinion on the Orthodox Church. From my point of view you just did not search deeply enough about the Orthodox Church because it did have an impact on world cultural heritage. Don't forget about the Pandidakterion, which was de facto the first university in the world. That's why it is called sometimes as the University of Constantinople as well as the monk theological/scientifical brotherhoods of Kiev, Lvov, Vilnius and Ostrog. The Kievan one raised up to the academy rank for example. Plus, we DO have deep theology. The most prominent traditional ones are St Gregory Palamas, St John Chysostome, St John of Damascus and many others. Even nowadays we have some respected and famous theologians such as Christos Yiannaras, Amphilochius (Radovic), Alexandr Men'. Check them out. As for iconography an orthodox would say: iconography is theology in colours. As an example I can recommmend you to read about The Holy Trinity icon by St Andrew Roublev. Have a nice day!)
I agree, I would argue even the deepest theology.
My friend this guy belongs to the Calvinist tradition. His understanding of God is a bit flawed and therefore he misunderstands orthodoxy and the christian faith.
Catholic here -- I fully agree that the Orthodox Church was given great disservice here. I don't think that the few substantial differences between us (the papacy, the Filioque, and the Immaculate Conception seen as "negative" by the Orthodox; nationalism, separation [e.g. the Moscow-Constantinople schism], and non-ecumenism seen as "negative" by the Catholics; and then our differing vantage points of theology) warrant an entire "tier" downgrade.
Then again, this is a Reformed speaker who doesn't appear to recognize that we (Catholic and Orthodox) are the same group that created the Nicene Creed, the same Church that all of the Church Fathers were from, and the same Church that Christ instituted to spread His Gospel Message (though we are now separated).
@@PianoForte9096 Let us all pray that one day our churches, Roman Catholic and Orthodox, find some meaningful way to reconcile our differences. While all men are brothers in a sense, the bond between Catholics and Orthodox is especially strong.
@@chemprofmatt Amen!
Jesus was baptized as an adult as were the apostles, Baptist baptisms make the most sense. Given how important the concept of free will is in theology just reinforces the point that adult baptism makes more sense than infant baptism.
Churches of Christ are credobaptists too! 😊
I have come to the conclusion there is no perfect theology; orthodoxy loves the history and "mysteries" which IS supported by doctrine. " I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you." and "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
the Apostolic Tradition of Hippolytus allows for infants to be baptized.
Colossians 2:11-12 speaks of baptism in lieu of circumcision but says you were "raised through faith".
Of course Acts 2:38-41 tells of the remission of sin and some would argue infants are not guilty of sin, but I disagree. “Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me.” Psalm 51:5.
"I baptize you with water for repentance, but one who is more powerful than I is coming after me; I am not worthy to carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire".
1 Peter 3:21 - Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ"
You could argue an infant doesn't have a conscience, but the baptism is an appeal to God.
Acts 22:16 - And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’ - AND wash away your sins. I don't believe the two are one, but you have to repent and call upon Christ.
The baptism seems to be on top of the belief. Yes, you can take a bath but you also have to repent to be clean(sed of sin). I don't see a problem with infant baptism as you also need repentance (or be free from sin) to be saved.
My worthless argument.
Infant Baptism is simply meant to cleanse the baby of original sin and create a closer connection to God from birth
John the Baptist was around the same age as Him so how could He have been baptized any earlier?
Yea I mean I'm part of the Alliance denomination (basically baptist) which focuses on evangelism and preaching the. Gospel. I believe that infant baptism is stupid but it's not like it's gonna keep them from Heaven. This video serves no purpose the guy just wants to say that his denomination is better than everyone else's, while there are some denominations that are false, most denominations have the same core beliefs
Thank you for opening my eyes on Baptist churches. I’ve been on my path to Christianity for several years, and I used to attend my local baptist church for a while. It was fantastic, but it was also the only time I’ve taken church seriously, so it had a big impact on me. I’m going to find my local Presbyterian church and check it out!
Please believe he misrepresented us, find a proper for true to the doctrine of the original Anabaptist church, Matthew 3:11
Baptist churches are definitely broad. I don’t think he captured my experience as a Baptist well at all but i think it’s because my churches tended to be more akin to the beliefs of Presbyterian but with the exception of Baptism and emphasis on personal faith (which is more so that you have to make a decision on Christ, you can’t just show up and check the box). But sadly I see more bad Baptist churches these days than good. They tend to try to be popular and have a bring the lost to the preacher and attract them with pizza mentality
Having spent time in a variety of churches of different denominations throughout my life, I can say with certainty that the individual church matters far more than the denomination.
While not Christian, I agree. I think that the specific house of worship and congregation is more important in *every* religion, since a community isn't going to be the exact same as another just because they follow the same religious denomination.
I partially agree.
I'm a Catholic, and I've been a member of 3 different Catholic churches over the years. The structure is the same, the mass is the same, the music is different, and that's about it. The difference between denominations, though, can be pretty big. I don't think any of them are wrong (other than woke modern ones), but the differences at least matter.
Edit: and the church "staff"(?) obviously. But they've been good everywhere I've been.
@@owfiI agree completely I've been come some sort of Christian universalist. I believe all denominations (other than woke ones like you said) are under the umbrella of Christ's church and has saved believers in it. Anyone who has a heart for God will be saved through their faith and love in His son. I believe anyone who believes it is faith alone will God to heaven based on that if someone thinks it includes the sacraments I believe it will for them if they believe baptism is most important they will all be judged in the way they believe in Christ because they serve Christ and there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. There has to be a reason God made all these denominations as I have met true men and women of God in everyone of them. Clearly God has a use for putting men and women in them.
(What I mean when I say Christian universalist is not the same as universalist) I believe that all Christians who actually follow Christ no matter what denomination they are part of. I do believe non Christians and biblical heretics are not going to heaven.
@@justdoinmythingthe denomination does matter. Let's take the Eucharist: if Christ commanded us to "do this in memory of me" in the sense of the perpetual Mass with transubstantiation occurring at individual masses practiced by Catholics, every denomination, and by extension every Christian within that denomination, is disobeying Christ. This also isn't a slight point to be ignored though as He clearly states whoever doesn't eat and drink of it has no life, causing many to abandon Him. Paul also reminds us that drinking unworthily is to drink death.
We cannot be apathetic about what we believe.
ABSOLUTELY.....they EACH have their own culture & spin, as with ANY group think environment
C.S. Lewis described non-denominationalism like this: Imagine Christianity as a big house, and every door is a different denomination. You might spend a long time deciding which room it is you feel most comfortable in, but you can't decide to just live in the hallway.
But in reality, non-denominationalism is just another door 😂
just read that book a few months ago
@@mylesmottley915Ur right. Except that door is baptist lol
@@mylesmottley915depends who you talk to. It isn’t just different on the church level, but different between each person.
@@Apinetree123 the baptist room has two doors
I'm Coptic Orthodox and my Church looks like a dog's breakfast. But, I love my Church and the people in it. I concede that Orthodox Churches do tend to be Nationalistic, but I find it to be in name only (in my experience), as they are lightning quick to accept anybody willing to attend.
As a Baptist, yeah, a lot of Baptists have a bad habit of not knowing the doctrines that our denomination was founded upon. I ask around my Baptist friends what they think about regenerate church membership (the defining trait of Baptist churches) and they have no idea. If I were to make a tier list like this then I would put Baptists in S or A tier based on beliefs and doctrine, but in culture and in practice I'd agree with you wholeheartedly.
Your critique of modern day Baptist is pretty accurate. And, I love how you acknowledge certain Baptist who are trying to renew the Baptist faith like Gavin Ortland, who is one the best Protestant apologists on RUclips.
However, as I have commented on previous videos, Baptist are NOT radical reformers/Anabaptists. Though we are not reformed either, historical Baptist were more in agreement with the Reformed tradition than they were with the Anabaptist tradition.The First London Confession even makes this clear in its first sentence, “The confession of faith of those churches which are commonly (though falsely) called Anabaptists.”
As someone who is Baptist, is training to be a Baptist minister, and absolutely loves church history and other Protestant traditions, this frustrates me because we are falsely labeled as radical reformers, and many Baptist wear the label as a badge of pride. I’m honestly praying for renewal and an ecumenical spirit to return to the Baptist tradition.
He only knows what he’s being told about Baptists, which is a very narrow view apparently.
Thank you for pointing this out! I can't tell you how many times I seethe when we're grouped in with the Anabaptists.
Thank you for commenting this, I grew up in a Baptist church and know of many other churches like mine that have our church family and traditions, many people who are well versed in scripture, etc.
Y’all seethe about this but follow the same heresies, you just got lucky enough to be successful among stupid americans
Gavin is a schismatic blasphemous heretic
I converted to Catholicism a couple of years ago after being an atheist in my childhood and growing up in an atheist family. You seem to have a fair view and pretty good understanding of all the denominations from a protestant viewpoint, and it's fun to hear about how you compare them! Thank you for making these videos, it's so nice to see Christian content from other young people.
😊♥✝
Just listen to bishop barron sermon. Don't listen to any other preacher who doesn't get u closer to God. You can tell if the holy spirit is present if it is deep and made impact on you.
@@aerolanz2512 So much for Baptists being the only ones with "personality cults" around their preachers.
I also recommend sam shamoun. He describe the scriptures really well and he is honest.
Bro same thing here my guy I grew up with the goofy protestants in the UK as an atheist now I am a devout catholic somewhere in the USA.
same here. I'm a born again catholic
This was very interesting, really learned a lot 😀 I'm in Scotland and Presbyterian, however really great to hear your view and perspective on other Christian denominations. Thanks mate 👍
Excellent video. Thank you for your work.
Personally it seemed a little unfair to base most denominations on their best expressions except for Baptists. To be fair, I am biased myself as a Baptist.😂 Keep up the good work brother!
That's a good point 😊
First he said we think institutional Christianity is bad because institutions get corrupt, and rejected this. Later, he lamented how some institutional denominations have been hijacked. That's the corruption right there.
"Rogue mercenaries" is an analogy on point, however. Many churches I've been part of have been quite individualistic and struggle to be a family or to reflect the kingdom.
humans are biased cant do nothing about it
shows how maybe it’s because Baptist is the truth :)
@@lindseymab “Baptist” isn’t the truth. Jesus is the truth. Don’t get so caught up in religion
I'm Catholic, and you were well polite about my church, Presbyterians are the Protestants I empathize with the most, along with Methodists (I was a Presbyterian before becoming Catholic, and my mother is a Methodist). Paz de Cristo e Viva Cristo Rei ✝☦
Yeup you heard it here first folks Catholics are better Deus Vult!
Similar here. I was baptized methodist, my wife, and both my parents families. Her family comes from Baptist background and this year I was converted catholic.
viva it's ok :)
Catholicism and Orthodox are the only ones that have apostolic succession.
The rest relies on fundamentalism.
@@fr.Angel21And also the only ones that have changed the 10 commandments of YHWH
As a Non-Denominationalist, here's the thing:
Non-Denom doesn't create problems. It just reveals them.
Here's the thing: If someone who's in a denomination 'believes' the right things, but only because they think that they're not allowed to disagree with the church, then they aren't ACTUALLY having that strong belief, they're just going along with what they're told.
Non-denom puts an emphasis on personal responsibility. It takes away your ability to point and blame others for things you get wrong. Non-denom is about being unified with all followers of Christ regardless of differing opinions, and actually discussing and talking out these things rather than just saying "well that's the church doctrine, so too bad".
Non-Denom, in my opinion, is the best system because it creates an environment where if someone is spiritually going astray, it will be obvious, and they can be called out on it by other believers. I feel like denominationalism doesn't actually help people grow their faith, it just makes people with weak faith LOOK stronger, because they're just going along with what they're told.
I think it also gives you a false sense of intellectual security that Christians shouldn't have. Denominationalism often results in people thinking they no longer have to worry about actually wrestling with and understanding scripture, because they just can go along with their church doctrine. I think this is a dangerous thing that results in a lot of people going astray in a way that, unlike in non-denom, is really hard to pick out.
I'd say that the ratio of genuine Christians in Non-Denom to denominational churches is the same, the only difference is how visible poor faith will be. If you're going with the motions of a church and just relying on that churches doctrine rather than letting yourself just go and consider what you actually believe based on the evidence, then that will be a lot less obvious than if you do let yourself consider what you actually believe and just fail to hold yourself responsible to seeking truth.
One results in someone who doesn't genuinely have faith but will say a lot of spiritually sound things due to following a curated doctrine, where the other results in someone who doesn't have the genuine faith but it's obvious through what they say.
This is why I prefer non-denom. Because it
- Feels more united. Being 'united' by a church government feels false to me. If I were to join any denomination right now, I'd have to be going along with at least a couple doctrines I don't believe. So the 'unity' I would have with that church would feel fake. Meanwhile, the unity I have with all the other genuine Christians in the world feels legit because, even though we disagree, we're able to be up front about it and know that, despite our disagreements, we're united through Christ. The unity feels real rather than forced.
- Logically seems like a more sound theological philosophy. Science is built to seek truth, and in science we don't tell people they aren't allowed to consider other ideas, instead we encourage people to go test and seek evidence so that collectively, through our different theories being tested against each other, we can get better and better understanding. Sure, a couple 'scientists' might go off and claim completely false things, but the rest of the scientists are free to call them out on it. This is how I think Non-denominationalist is. Everyone individually being responsible to seek truth, but working collectively to keep each other accountable and learn.
- Is easier to know who's genuine. A system where you're not forced or pressured to just agree with what you're told, is a system where people with incorrect or ingenuine faith will quickly be revealed as such.
- Feels more rooted in scripture than in human traditions. The sermons at my church are almost entirely just reading the Bible, then there's fellowship after the sermon to discuss. The sermons aren't about what that church body thinks, it's about what God thinks. The pastor doesn't treat his words as if they have real spiritual authority, like some denominations do, but instead acknowledges that he's a flawed human like everyone else and despite going to college and taking pastoral classes, could still be wrong.
The "flaws" with non-denominationalism are all because of personal irresponsibility and ingenuine faith - stuff that would still be a problem in denominational churches, just aren't as obvious to see.
Dude, you guys are just Baptists with extra steps
Nondenominational was a hipster movement a few years back. A chance to not be labeled and not have to think too hard on theology. Not saying that all nondenoms but it’s why I see many in those churches who have no intention of opening a Bible or having tough conversations
No matter how hard you think you understand scripture, you still remember the information from the scripture in your own image. If your mind can make mistakes, your mind cannot read scripture infallibly.
I find what you say about the baptists to be so interesting because as a person who was born into a baptist church and believes in believers baptism I have often wondered why there is less emphasis on the history of the church. I think that based on what I know it would be great for baptists to learn church history and find out where we come from. I have done some study of church history and it has done nothing but increase my faith and assurance that I do have good and orthodox theology. I think that the reason that as you say baptists have a long retention rate is that we do understand salvation as something that happens to an individual and thus we only baptize those in water who we see bear the fruit of a person who has been baptized in the spirit.
I was raised and continue to be Baptist (SBC in the 1990s, then CBF after the schism became permanent). I do recall there was a big to-do on the 400th anniversary of the founding of what would become the Baptists by Smyth and Helwys. But otherwise, we seem to mostly speak to our broad family tradition, and where we are and where we are going, rather than pointing to individual history.
If and when history is mentioned, the major emphasis seems to be that of how certain historical events resulted in the formation of the Baptist heritage (at least here in the United States). Basically, as with the other English Dissenters, the Baptist tradition was less the result of purely intellectual disputes than it is the sum total of the experiences of the Reformation(s), the Counter-Reformation, the European Wars of the Religion, the English Revolutions of the 17th century, the downside of a mandatory Established Churches no matter how-Protestant, and in general bad things happening on all sides.
Basically all to explain: why we don't force people to be a full member of the church, why we have congregational polity (grass-roots governance rather than top-down), why one of our main tenants is separation of church and state, etc., and the general individual emphasis on individual Soul Competency, rather than dogmatics. In order to spare strife and reduce persecution seen in the 16th-18th centuries, Baptists baked into the denominational theology our modern politically-liberal conception of "religious freedom" and democracy, before political religious freedom and liberal democracy was firmly in place in secular civil government. It is, I think, one reasons Baptists are so numerous and prominent in the USA: our theology is quite compatible with the foundational political philosophies of the country.
That is also why so many Baptists have been highly skeptical of any theological tests being imposed between congregations of the various fellowships other than the basic Nicene &c. creeds and holding of the Baptist distinctives. Our tradition stripped Christianity down to what the founding generations of the denomination thought were the bare-minimums of Christianity, and then let it live out like a what today we think of as an open-source project, forking as needed. The downside of this is that, unless you go actively looking for it, many Baptists have lost elements of the greater Christian tradition, and we can have a very hard time getting things done, especially when we don't merely "agree to disagree".
Because of your videos I started to go to church again. Today was the first time in years. Went to a very rural Presbyterian church. So small of church they have rotating pastors, seems very conservative, I was by far the youngest person attending the service at 24. They had a screen to read off of for psalms. Overall very good vibes. They gave me a Bible cause I had a hard time understanding the kings James version. Only thing off about the church was inside there wasn’t any Presbyterian cross. Just normal crosses with some engravings. Other than that it was good. Thank you zoomer for making me more comfortable into returning to Christ
That's amazing, praise God! I pray that God keeps you in that church and makes it a blessing to you, as well as makes you to be a blessing to everyone there! God bless
Does he have a choice... Or is he predestined... What's a Calvin's to say? 😊
Catholicism is easily S tier! It changed the whole world for better or for worse, Catholics discovered America, found that the solar system revolved around the whole sun, invented inoculations, created LOTR.
You, sir, are incredibly based.
Counterpoint: The Pope is the Antichrist
I agree but keep in mind this is more so a ranking of what is most and least reformed
not to mention the theological formation that came from them. Augustine and Aquinas were easily 2 of the most important theologians in human history
Catholicism although it has done more services to the entire world then any denomination. it’s still more of a work based religion.
Lot of bad bad stuff has gone on with the popes, many of it’s pastors, and how it got raised into power.
im not bashing Catholicism believe me. i honestly think it’s pretty cool how you guys think its the true way. i mean this with no disrespect but its like anime version of how you guys interpret the bible and stuff.
with that being said S tier is a massive stretch. At absolute best it should be A tier imo.
The biggest gripe I would have regarding the baptism aspect is that regardless of age there is a sense of "Kingdom theology" in both birth baptisms and non. Both are done at different ages (although most are done as infants there are many exceptions). While non birth baptisms occur likely at different ages ( potentially more spread out in terms of age). But the difference is that true understanding of what the baptism process means to the individual isn't a bad thing, nor is it individualistic. I personally was baptised with a very large group of individuals who all felt a sense of comradedry and support from our fellow brothers and sister in Christ throughout the process. ..I loved the video and your work nonetheless! Very thankful to have you give such a
In depth content across the board!
Solid video. It does always make me chuckle when people refer to doctrine that's only 500 years old as more "beautiful and true" than doctrine that is 2,000 years old... I do appreciate the fact that you don't shit on any of the traditions, though. Blessings to you.
1) older doesn't equal better
2) the answer would be that the doctrine is eternal - it's about Jesus Christ and the Gospel that saves. The argument from the Reformation was not that they were inventing a new doctrine, but returning back - reforming - to the older church traditions, after the modern church strayed.
@@joeyn985do you remember to whom Jesus Christ gave the keys of the kingdom of heaven?
@@777ServusDei to the church.
Lemme guess, you think that means I need to submit to the Pope?
I think it would be cool if you started a series of comprehensive videos that show the true extent of why heretical groups like LDS, Christian Science, JW, and “progressive churches” aren’t Christian and how they cause great harm to our faith.
It would be more than cool. That content could possibly inform some lost souls.
@@leonardticsay8046 Right, hopefully it could help those that have been sold a false understanding of god by these opportunistic cults.
That would be cool indeed!
Can't forget Non-Trinitarians, Abrahamians, Chrislams, Pagan Christians, Judeo-Christians, and many MANY more.
@@AW27007, wait... What's a "pagan Christian"?
With Orthodoxy he just took a surface level look and understanding. For example he did not explain that the filouque was not in the original nicene creed. It was later inserted by the latin, without approval from the whole church.
Yeah. He has zero idea of what he is saying. Having Methodist above Orthodoxy just tells you whats up. This is what happens when History and Basic Theology is removed.
@harvestcrops3983 yeah, he said he went into Christianity without any idea of denominations, and it shows. He's just parroting what he's heard.
Begotten from the father wasn't in the original Nicene creed also
I am a confessional Lutheran, and putting Methodist above Orthodoxy is WILD
@@aquilla2.087Yes but it was added because it is theologically sound and reflects the Christian belief. The filioque is not based on anything; it was invented by the Pope. There’s no biblical argument for it
Love your vids you explain things very well! Thanks for being respectful
The church I attend in Perth, western Australia is the Westminster Presbyterian Church, which is a sort of localised Presbyterian church present in Australia. It is very absent of iconography, and buildings are very simple and basic (in fact my church meets in an old workers union building hall). There are a few things I disagree with in terms of its organisational structure (is there really a good organisational structure?). But the theology is sound.
When not in Perth, I attend an Anglican church (which my father was a paster of for many years), however i am quite particular about the Anglican churches that i attend, since they tend to either lean too fundamentalist, or too liberal.
I think Presbyterian has the advantage of not having the political history the Anglican church had, and thus is less fundamentalist.
Wondering if you'll ever make a "why I am not jewish" and "why I am not muslim" videos. I would definitely be interested in watching that.
That would be nice, especially the "why I'm not Jewish" one. Muslim arguments are very weak in general but Jewish ones are actually good
Like muslims unironically deny that the crucifixition happened lmao
@@Testimony_Of_JTF They also say Mohammed split the moon in half, even though _no one_ in the entire rest of the world at any point in any time has said anything even close to that. I haven't even seen someone try to defend it honestly, so maybe they just say it's a metaphor.
Theology aside, being Jewish is something you're usually born into, and converts are usually told "why would you want to be part of us when you have your own traditions as a gentile"? In other words, converting to Judaism is like converting to the pre-Christian religion of a Native American Tribe: It wasn't meant for you unless you have family ties to it.
On the Muslim thing, there are probably many many reasons explained in the Bible and history for not converting.
@@adamandsethdylantoo They don't even think you will go to hell if you're not Jewish and follow all of the Law. The Covenant was with Israel, not anyone else. Just following the 7 laws of Noah is enough for some
@@Testimony_Of_JTFTalmudi Judaism makes less sense than Islam. It is pretty much a response to Christianity.
Baptist here! I obviously don’t agree with everything but I’ve learned so much from watching your videos. Appreciate you brother!
Yeah! I also felt that, specially putting Baptists below Catholics, that whore from Rev. 17, but since he put Presbiterians first, and Catholics after the ones more agreeable with Calvinism heresy, since Protestants and reformed people came from Catholics, still holding some of their practices, that's the way to go for their tradition hupla of course. No wonder some reformed people are going to Catholics again!
But us Baptists have a true tradition Based on the Bible, our heritage came from Anabaptists persecuted by both Catholics, and reformed people, we are the ones independent from the government and our begginings is before the reformation.
As another baptist I’m completely pissed off
You're being individualistic :)@@pygmyrhino8049
I’ve learned so much about other denominations and even my own (Lutheran) through you, and I greatly appreciate that. Your knowledge is truly a blessing. Lutherans take the Divine Service and the Holy Sacrament of Communion so seriously because we see it as a precious gift from Christ, and it should not be taken lightly. Yes, much in part of this is our belief that Christ’s body and blood is in this Sacrament, but also because, as our Catechism teaches, it is at the alter of Christ, receiving the supper of the Lamb, where we are reminded of His grace and fall to our knees in repentance, joy, and sincere appreciation for His sacrifice for our sins. We do it every Sunday, and as I’ve discussed with my wife sometimes, I often wish we could do it every day. That communion with God and feeling the Holy Spirit come over oneself when going to his table, it’s tear invoking (in a really good way) every time. It’s a constant reminder that God loves me, despite my sin, and he continues to baptize me and my siblings in Christ, every moment of our lives and bring us closer to Him. Joining Him in supper is a reminder that He will never depart us, Satan is doomed, death is defeated, and we are saved. Amen.
Very good video! Greetings from an orthodox/confessional/non-progressive Lutheran in the southern hemisphere. God bless you!!
Im a catholic and it was so refreshing to hear such a fair take on catholicism. I disagree with your conclusions and I have seen early church fathers defend the papacy (maybe not in those terms but giving the church of Rome primacy), but i just want to give props for the respectable approach.
I feel like he's one theological step away from turning Catholic. Maybe even a priest.
U just admitted that the papacy is made up.
Bc as an Orthodox christians we believe in the primacy of the pope but not in later vatican innovations such as supremacy and infallibility!!
I would see why you’d like the “fair take” on the Catholic Church. Should read my comment on it lol
You will not find a defence of the Papacy from Polycarp or Irenaeus. In fact, the early church in Rome had no Popes.
@@1969cmp I think I was fairly clear that maybe they would not use the term "Pope" per see, just as the early church didn't use the specific term trinity, but that the church of Rome was acknowledged as having a special primacy.
I encourage you to follow the link below to read what many of the fathers have to say. You picked Irenaeus and Polycarp which is fairly random. Assuming you are correct about that, which you are not,
{“But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition” (Against Heresies 3:3:2 [A.D. 189]).) -Iranaeus}
that would not mean that no one believed in this primacy. It seems to me that the early church used the episcopacy in Rome to determine who was in and who was out of the faith so to speak. It was the central backbone, the rock if you will. Not to mention that being christian was dangerous so it is likely that they would obscure to some degree who was the bishop in each place to outsiders. So when you say the early church "had no Popes" that is fairly revisionist and its just bad historical understanding quite frankly.
www.churchfathers.org
Oh boy I'm sure this isn't going to be a controversial list!
I'm Presbyterian, but my best friend in college was Catholic. Our discussions are a big part of why I'm very ecumenical today. I've always used the Nicene Creed as a litmus test in that I've always said "if you can honestly say the Nicene Creed you are a Christian, if you can't then I have questions".
i'm coptic and we do belong to the nicene branch :)
@@maro_Jesusisking my apologies, I somehow managed to get the councils of chalcedon and nicea mixed together in my head. There's a couple of councils and centuries in-between them. I knew that but had a massive moment of stupidity. I'm going to edit my post to remove the erroneous part of it. Thank you for your correction.
@@ADT1995 haha of course no worries
honestly i really like the idea of holding tradition in the church, but i also don’t mind the modern stuff as long as their theology is good :)) im trying to learn more about theology and everything now that im more into my faith, but yeah 😮
I have to thank you for your videos. While not of the same denomination (I’m Roman Catholic), you have helped inspired me (along with many others) to take my faith more seriously.
this guy is gonna feel really silly when he actually learns what Orthodoxy is.
for real, im not even orthodox and my eyes rolled back so far at how...i dont wanna say WRONG but super duper reductionist, and incomplete his explanation was.
I can appreciate the Orthodox Churches as a Catholic. The Churches are beautiful, the liturgies are varied, and a lot of Orthodox believers in my experience are very passionate.
@@forresthenry9535 of course you can appreciate it, catholic is the same coin from different side... they have the same history and traditions until the shcism, the prostestan history only started after the reformation...
☦️❤️❤️
wait what is it really?
This was a great opportunity for you to explain your own personal doctrines
Hey I enjoyed this...I've grown up in the Anabaptist tradition (in a Canadian Mennonite church) and I'd love to hear how you slot anabaptism into this (and the other) frameworks you've used!
Im a Baptist and i'm not offended in the least about what you are saying about us. I love your channel and what you are doing. After finding you and watching several of your videos, i had a talk with my kids about the different denominations and how i will not be upset in the least if they chose a different church. Its not really anything i considered before but i realize the importance. Your videos are now apart of our home bible studies. As long as my kids are true Christian and believe the fundamentals, they can decide which secondary issues are most important from what they learn and pray about.
I love the church we attend and it's hard to classify us as Baptists honestly, it not anything like you discribed. However, its not the only Baptist church I've been to, so i understand completely where the generalizations come from. This is why i like this new church we are at. it's much less personal and more about the church, the people. Sacrements are important and mean something more, thats different than what i grew up learning about.
Keep it up, you are doing great!
I’ve been to a few Baptist churches. My home church is baptist and I don’t think most of what he said was accurate. I understand that Baptist do not have as much of an emphasis on church tradition however this is because our belief system. What I disagree with is that he says Baptist have a “me and my Bible” mentality. Most baptists, however, clump to like minded friends to fill up there spiritual cup. Baptists are just more focused on going and making disciples. That’s why the life in the church seems empty compared to others. We are to serve out of the church.
@rormxrsh3028 thanks for explaining that. I'm so new to faith in God and couldn't quite place it why it bothered me, the me and my bible thing. All the Baptist pastors I follow and listen to, as well as my church, is very disciple centered and there is a strong community and missional atmosphere as well. I personally love it. Plus, I'm a little sore I felt like homie called us slow 😂
@@rormxrsh3028 Yeah this! That and apparently making from scratch and rejecting heritage? Please do correct me if I'm wrong since I'm not 100% certain here but from what I've seen, this is what I think we Baptists believe is that things went down like this:
a) Pentecost happens, disciples spread the word and build the church
b) The people who beleived in Jesus at the time, known as the church fathers, share what God has taught through the Holy Spirit and every experience and guidance is written down.
c) Over the generations, these teachings are pased down through loyal servants of God.
d) A corruption happens somewhere in the later generations, the corrupted being X and the remaining uncorrupted being Y
e) This remaining uncorrupted sect of Christians who keep what the early Christians have taught is who are now known as the Baptists.
Because the very term "Sacraments" meant REQUIRED for conversion and remaining so
TRUE original Baptists DIDN'T come OUT of the Reformation although MANY that call themselves such are NOT aware of such@@sanukatharul1497
as a southern baptist i completely understand your critiques of the church. i recently have gotten serious about my faith and have repented from sin that has been in my life for a long time. im pretty sure God lead me to your Channel in just the right time to help me understand more about the faith, as i do not understand well just reading but by listening.
I appreciate you. God bless
@@Nitsua2828what are these places… it might be different in some places.
In some places the church seems to be a wooden hut because no one has the funds to build actual architecture.
I grew up in a pentecostal church and I always thought that it was fine or good enough. Between your videos and the Haunted Cosmos/Kings Hall podcast I think I need to find a reformed church
I actually thought I knew a thing or two.😅😅😅.Your my new hero. Thank you Sir.
Wanted to thank you for helping me learn about Christianity and theology. Today I went to my first Catholic mass and absolutely loved it. In the end I ended up agreeing with their theology the most and it’s also the only church close to me that actually teaches the Bible. B tier for the win.
Catechism of the Catholic Church Paragraph #813 The Church is one because of her source: "the highest exemplar and source of this mystery is the unity, in the Trinity of Persons, of one God, the Father and the Son in the Holy Spirit." 259 The Church is one because of her founder: for "the Word made flesh, the prince of peace, reconciled all men to God by the cross, . . . restoring the unity of all in one people and one body." 260 The Church is one because of her "soul": "It is the Holy Spirit, dwelling in those who believe and pervading and ruling over the entire Church, who brings about that wonderful communion of the faithful and joins them together so intimately in Christ that he is the principle of the Church's unity." Unity is of the essence of the Church
Really glad to hear about your experience with the Catholic Mass. If you haven’t yet, I suggest you check out Trent Horn (Counsel of Trent) and Bishop Robert Barron (Word on Fire Ministries). They’re both excellent Catholic creators who have helped my husband (an RCIA candidate set to be received into the Church this coming Easter) and me (a cradle Catholic) to better understand the faith. Peace be with you!
@@MarianMetanoia Thank you! I’ll check them out, so far the ones I like the most are Pints with Aquinas (I like his long form videos) and Breaking in the Habit. I’ve heard of Council of Trent but haven’t watched his videos yet. I’m very interested in theology so I really appreciate your recommendations to some good Catholic RUclipsrs. Peace be with you!
@@Koyomix86 Cradle Catholic here and would like to welcome you home. Some other great resources are Catholic answers here on you tube. Jimmy Akin, Scott Hahn, Dr Brant Pitre, Father Mike Schmitz, Father Mark Goring,Father Donald Calloway are just a few of the wonderful people of God to lead you to The Church founded by Jesus Christ Our Lord and Saviour. May God Bless you on your journey and never ending quest to follow Jesus. Also the joy you will experience receiving Jesus Christ truly present in the Holy Eucharist is beyond anything you can imagine.
Viva Cristo Rey 🙏✝️
Lutheran sees Lutheranism only in A tier: What!?
Lutheran sees Catholicism in B tier: Oh, okay. We're good.
But joking aside, this was an edutaining video.
Fellow Lutheran!
Greetings my Lutheran brothers!
I'm Lutheran and what he said about appealing to mystery may be true, but I see this as a strength, because some if the doctorine that comes from say calvanists and even catholics, comes from them going to logical conclusions based on human reason and wisdom even if scripture doesnt confirm it or even speaks against it. Lutherans on the other hand dont go farther in doctorine then where svmcripture ends, we say amen and are content with leaving room for mystery where I believe there should be. I think 1 corinthians actually warns against the things calvsnists do when they try to figure everything out just for the sake for having an explanation for everything. We shouldn't expect to have an explanation for everything, but when god tells us something through the bible, we should say amen. Deuteronmy speaks about this too.
Greetings my Lutheran brothers!
God's peace brothers.
Loved this video. I’m a catholic and am part of a men’s small group at a non-denominational church (undercover baptist) and will pass this video along to my group.
Pentecostal over here. LOVED THIS RANKING. And yes, we are a wild bunch... ngl 🤣. Dude always making videos that suck me in.
I was just confirmed catholic. I was baptized methodist, then was a presby calvinist for 10 years. I never would've expexted i'd end up catholic but when god takes your hand and says lets go for a walk, you follow. You dont pull away... i have to say after a year and RCIA classes and daily study. Im extremely confident that catholic is S tier.
God bless you! Out of curiosity, what made you reconsider some of the theology that led you to leave Calvinist principles to Catholicism?
I'm trying to find time to begin my confirmation process for catholicism. I was baptized at birth in a Presbyterian church and went atheist for 7 years, then went nondenominational for 1 year until I finally found my place in catholicism.
@stephenlee3406 amen! I made the mistake of waiting for an announcement at mass about RCIA. It never came and I started months late but I'm a studious person. I'd call the diocese and ask about RCIA at that parish if you can't find answers after mass.
@channellift2775 The first point to fall for me was irresistible grace. Christ laments over the lost at Jerusalem, he said how I wouldve gathered you like a hen gathers her chick's but you would not. To me, I don't see how irresistible grace can work and that passage be true. Christ would've wanted to save them but he refused to do so? If unconditional election is true than there's nothing the good people did to deserve his grace and nothing the bad people did to deserve his wrath. If total depravity is true then we are created dead in sin and incapable of doing good things on our own. Final analogy to show how disturbing their theology is if you think it through. I have two kids, imagine I elect one to be successful and the other I want to go to prison to teach the kid I like a lesson. For the one child to be successful, I would have to teach her right from wrong, business sense, string values, id hold her hand and show her the right way. If I wanted the other kid to go to prison, I'd do the opposite. Withhold grace, punish wantonly, neglect them, and withhold love and discipline from him. Now if the one kid went to college and got a great career and the other went to prison forever what kind of parent would you say that I am? A good parent for destroying my sons life and any future he might have for the sake of my daughter? No but that's how calvinists think... that it's ok for God to withhold his love and grace to punish the non elect so he can show his elect how much he loves them over the other lovers. If that were true jesus wouldn't have lamented over Jerusalem, he would've laughed maniacally like some super villain. Calvinists are LOCO I can't believe it took me 10 years to see it. No calvinist thinks about that stuff they just repeat God is sovereign and it makes any evil go away in their mind. It's a powerful brainwashing tool
Excellent explanation. Welcome home!
Your channel gave me a motivation to look at other churches and learn from them.
Thank you for making explanation, by making it easy to understand!
Same as a catholic this channel helped give me the desire to learn more about protestants, something most Catholics just dismiss
@@jacksonkuzmic I couldn’t agree more!!!
Hello please become orthodox
Fair play for going through all of this! However I find it interesting that my knowledge of Baptists/Congregationalists/Anglicans and a lot of others is completely different to yours. I've grown up in what I guess is a Baptist kinda church (we just call ourselves evangelicals) but some of the assumptions you've made about these denominations is not at all how I would see it. But a lot of them are perfectly correct.
I go to and serve at a non-denominational church that is essentially what I would call "Bapti-costal". My Pastor was born and raised in a Pentecostal Holiness Church (his dad was a Pastor), and I once asked him about the reason why speaking in Tongues was so common in the Pentecostal Church, and his explanation was that it's expected. In the same way we expect a worship session, and a sermon, the Pentecostals expect someone to break out in Tongues. Now there are a few things to consider. One, they didn't treat it lightly, and stood by the guidance given by Paul in terms of Spiritual Gifts. If someone was not interpreting what was being said in Tongues, they would shut it down. Another thing to remember is that while it may not be divine, it *is* real. Their passion is genuine, and they honestly believe that the random gibberish they are saying as it comes to mind is from God. He also mentioned that behind closed doors, he knew of people in other denominations that have had an experience speaking in Tongues, one of which being an Anglican. One event involved a missions trip in Moldova in which the Romanian interpreter was indisposed for the day (he was sick). The missionary still gave his message, albeit in English, and Moldovans *understood* what he was saying. They reacted to parts of the sermon as if though they understood, because they did, despite not knowing English. So many people have this idea in their heads that "Speaking in Tongues" is just spouting off gobbledy nonsense. Its actually the Gift of the Spirit to speak in languages unknown to you, or understand them, as the case was here.
Austrian Lutheran here,
I really enjoy your videos and they helped me learn about God and my faith.
Keep up the good work.
Alternate title: Comparing every Christian denomination to Presbyterianism
Edit: I know he’s a Presbyterian. I know he says it’s going to be a bias video. I just thought my alternate title would also be fitting for the video.
He basically said that at the beginning of the video.
@@VillagerPlaystationVita If you don't put your own faith in S tier you should probably be thinking about converting soon lol
Honestly this should've been the title of the video. At least he would've been as honest and as upfront about his intent as the Jeovah's Witnessess 😂
@@lauson1ex literally 10 seconds into the video he says that this is basically going to be a video comparing how similar they are to his church. That's about as upfront as you can get.
As a recent convert to Orthodoxy(I really should pretend to teach) but I would like to share a paradox i experienced.
When I was Protestant (and I graduated from a Protestant seminary) I found when I came across another Christian I disagreed with, on something important (and often even ‘what’ was important was the contention) I was encountering a heretic. The problem is that they not only represent their own tradition but May misrepresent the ecumenical, unseen church.
Since becoming Orthodox I don’t run into any heretics. I just run into people from a different tradition. They are operating with the knowledge that God has given them and may be closer to Christ than I am. I can hope that I am representing Christ to them, but my job is not to convince anyone.
Well said! I've noticed this change in myself as well coming into Orthodoxy as an inquirer. I feel so much more peaceful and relaxed
Representing Christ to the world rather than brute-force convincing anyone...
I think this is maybe a distinction that I've been trying to wrap my head around in my dialogues with my co-workers. I am a Catholic, and I am learning how to accept that arguments are not what convert people. God does, and He does so insofar as I let Him act through me and I try to see what He has in others and draw that out.
As far as tier lists go this is definitely one of the most useful ones. The actual ranking doesn't matter so much (to me) as the reasoning you give for each placement.
What is most interesting about this list, is how you've scored these denominations entireline according to your own true feelings, not according to any doctrine or dogma.
I think that's very strong and honest. - And i also think it's logical that your own denomination is at the top; if it weren't, you should switch.
Excellent summary. As a Lutheran, I've never hear any in my congregation say anythint disparaging about Presbyterians. We're critical of Calvinism, but we highly respect fellow confessional Reformation churches.
Thank for your work on this channel. A great source of church knowledge.
"KALvinism"?
@@zelphx Whoops! Brain lapse.
My church is considered non-denominational and we adhere to the Nicene Creed along with taking the Eucharist every month at the end of the month I'm still learning more about my faith, I'd love to go to school but unfortunately I'm in a position where school is not possible financially and in a sense physically.... Or mental health wise so most of my learning has been through the classes at my church has offered an online classes for free or RUclips videos that I found to be legitimate. And I like how you took the time to make this and do this video so Im grateful for that
I think I might switch the tiers of Presbyterian and Dutch Reformed, simply because the first Q&A of the Heidelberg Catechism is the most beautiful expression of what it means to be a Christian that I’ve ever heard.
True
So true. Great observation.
I really appreciate that you talk about the different denominations from an academic/theological perspective rather than a political perspective, which seems to have become the norm on social media. Your videos are great to watch because not only are you extremely educated on the topic, but it’s evident you’re really passionate about it, too. Keep up the great work!
Extremely educated ?
As an Orthodox teen it drives me crazy how many misguided, naive, and arrogant Orthodox Christians there are online. I've been Orthodox since I was 5, and having grown up in an OCA parish I've always been taught to be empathetic and loving, and that most people who aren't Orthodox either haven't been expoesed to it, OR have been exposed to a warped version and completely turned off. It breaks my heart when I hear people talk badly about our faith (not that you were unkind in any way, it was just clear you have probably had some unpleasant online experiences with "Orthodox" people, who likely don't actually know what we believe). I'm of course still growing in my faith, but talking to almost any priest answers a lot of questions. If you happen to become curious, I would highly recommend Ancient Faith Ministries. Blogs, podcasts, and books all containing quality information about the truth and beliefs of the Orthodox faith.
That's just a problem within new converts of any religion (more notoriously, atheists), specially with how being a religious traditionalist is the new counter culture amongst the youth.
Thanks for posting this comment. I've come around to Christianity after spending a few years extensively reading various philosophers and theologians, and I'm hoping to become part of the Orthodox church. There are some Orthodox people online who are hands-down the nicest people I've ever met, but I will admit I was somewhat put off in the earlier days by the kinds of people you describe. It was primarily a sort of "you MUST believe this or else!" attitude, or a "if you don't agree with me then you're not Orthodox".
To be fair there are people like that in every group, but I can just ignore them more easily!
@Skin_Man absolutely! If you are moving towards the Orthodox faith, first off welcome and congratulations! Second, if you haven't already found a parish, do! The sooner you're relying less on online interaction, the better. I'm not qualified to judge the characteristics of each jurisdiction, but I'm in an OCA parish and everyone I've met in our deanery are the loveliest, welcoming, and warm people and my best friends. The harsh, judgemental "Orthodox Christians" are NOT a representation of the Church as a whole, and that's one of the many flaws in social media-bringing out the worst in people who think their anonymity gives them permission to say outrageous and hurtful things.
@@miyannapittman5580 Thank you for the kind words! I'm in rural New Zealand at the moment, so my options are somewhat limited, but I'll be moving to the UK in the future and I'm hoping to find more of a community there. My biggest problem is that, in everything I do, I tend to isolate myself and go off and "do my own thing". I can appreciate the value of community, it's just something I'm not familiar with.
As a recent convert to Orthodoxy (Antiochian), this comment resonates with me quite a bit. I am 27, so not old, but I listen to many of the younger converts who in their zeal for the faith completely shoot themselves in the foot with how they approach non-Orthodox Christians. Do not get me wrong, I think the differences of Orthodoxy from other Christian traditions are very important. But instead of making a bludgeon to beat other Christians, we should be using it as a starting point for a dialogue on why those differences are important.
Hiya mate, greetings from the UK (Manchester to be specific)! This is a great video.
Just wanted to chuck my ten pence in to let you know that we Pentecostals don't deny the trinity; this is actually the first time I've heard the suggestion that we do? Maybe a USA/UK difference? I also don't know if it's because our pastor is the head of the denomination in the UK so we're very spoilt, but our church network is surprisingly intellectual - many of our leaders are doctors of theology and we have a Bible college attached to our church.
Agree with you about things being a bit unorganised though! We need better discipleship for the volunteers who lead within church settings. I also take the point about worship, but traditionalists said the same thing about pipe organs when they were first introduced from the beer halls! 😅
Keep making this great content, mate. It's brilliant.
I love your enthusiasm for sacred art.
Being something of a non-denominational/Baptist-lite myself, I actually appreciated your take on it.
I appreciate that you shouted out individuals who are very serious about their faith but also pointed out that there’s a lot of issues with the denomination as a whole. Good take.
Thank you very much for explaining it in such a detailed manner! Really good!
You are an excellent channel. Can you make an expanded video where you can do smaller yet interesting trinitarian and non-trinitarian of another 22 denominations or traditions? Useful charts has great denominations list; I added them from there and some other important once I felt he missed.
Anabaptists (Mennonites),
Brethren,
Plymouth Brethren,
Irvingian,
Higher Life (Christian and Missionary Alliance),
Old Catholics,
Two by Twos,
Holiness Movement,
Moonies,
Kimbanguism,
Unity (New Thought),
Swedenborgian,
Christian Science,
Anthroposophy (Christian Community),
Spiritualist Church,
World Mission Society,
Eastern Lighting,
Messianic Jews,
General Conference Church of God (Binitarian heresy),
Spiritual Christians (Russian Doukhbors)
La Luz del Mundo,
Christadelphians,
Looking forward to more of your work!
The baptist second London confession in 1689 is very similar to the Westminster confession. I would say that the history of baptist churches (especially those that ended up in America) have these as there routes as opposed to the Anabaptists in central and northern Europe
P.s. thanks for all the videos and keep up the good work 👍
As someone who was raised in the Pentecostal church up in Canada (albeit predominately rural Canada) , I feel a radical disconnect between what I hear about Pentecostalism from American youtubers and what I experienced growing up.
As with every religion it seems.
Depending on which organization you were with and how much it was influenced by the Latter Rain/Charismatic movement, you might have had a more traditional Pentecostal upbringing. I would need to know more about your church's history to begin to guess.
As one who was raised in the pentecostal denomination for 23 years I completely agree.
As a fellow Canadian, (Canadian Baptist) I feel like Canadian Protestant denominations just tend to be less extreme. It’s too cold to be crazy here lol.
As a Pentecostal, I agree
Proud to be a roman apostolic catholic Christian! ✝️
great, apostolic succesion proves the papacy right and all of James especially James 2 proves salvarion through faith and works
@@jacobh2147... Biblically , Salvation is NOT based on faith + works ...but WORKs are the fruits of faith...They are NOT one of the "tools" required to get to heaven as what the roman catholic succession teaches...in contrast to what God teaches in His Word...even in the book of James when read in context... 🤔
@@christlyn1830 the book of James literally says faith without works is dead, explain that, also Jesus said those who love me will do my works
@@jacobh2147 That faith which isn't backed by works is not genuine faith. James even quotes the same Scripture as Paul does in Romans 4.
James 2:23 "And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God."
Abraham had faith and righteousness before he offered up Isaac, but his works made manifest and verified his faith.
James 2 is about the hypocrisy of the false convert and how true faith works in the Christian, as was also described in Hebrews 11 talking about the faith of Old Testament saints. The context makes this very clear if you read on from James 1 talking about being doers of the word, that vain hearers deceive themselves, yet saying that it's the engrafted word which when received saves the soul.
It's very clear especially in Galatians 5 and in Romans 4, that if you work for salvation your reward is not of grace but of debt, and that Christ is of no effect to you if you seek to be justified by the law.
@@anon5075 you are mot justified by the law neother by your works it is faoth but that faith must be kept alive by works, that we do not earn salvation for no one deserves it but we prove and maintain our faith ny exercising Gods will, not all those who call unto him Father, Father will be recognized, also we have to acknowledge Jesus before all so he does the same in front of the Angels, another example of keeping faith through works
Actually orthodox churches are humbling because of the icons of Christ on roofs overlooking you. Orthodox is also the original church that hasn't contradicted the creed.
As far as differences among continental reformed churches, one could be whether theology was more derived from Farel/Calvin/de Bèze from Geneva (this would include the Dutch, the French, the Valdese, and the Swiss churches of Geneva and Neuchâtel) or derived from Zwingli/Bullinger (most of the other Swiss reformed).
Great analysis on each denomination and reasoning as to why you ranked them the way you did!
I was raised in a Pentecostal church and I believe that everyone’s experience is based on the the actual church. Many churches were different from what I believed. Some churches really encouraged speaking in tongues while others were only based on your own experience with God. I respect your opinion nonetheless. Great video! God bless you.
Seems like we have a shared background in being raised in a Pentecostal church and the conclusions drawn.I couldn’t have said it better myself.
Pentecostals are the only churches that have real fellowship. All the other churches have disconnected communities and are weekend Warrior types. The pentecostals need to introduce communion tho.
@@juandoming6688I would kinda agree with you in that Pentacostals have a much greater emphasis on fellowship, however my church, which is Pentacostal, partakes in communion every month.
@@juandoming6688 well I'm pentecostal, but my church has communion,on multiple occasions
Grew up pentacostal, we didnt really focus too much on theology we were all about the spiritual gifts we had bible study, choir etc. But i did go to a oneness church, and everyone was speaking in tongues at the Same time. I had a migraine due to the chaos, but thankfully the holy spirit helped me rebuke the gathering. My friends wife said it wasn't as Chaotic as usual 😅 I was like "the bible says no more then 3 should speak in tongues... and only if their's interpretation."
Thoughtful video! There's one point about Catholicism that I'd like to push back on: Redeemed Zoomer said, "I can't find any arguments that the Church Fathers believed in the papacy." The notion that the bishop of Rome is the principle of unity for the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church is in fact fairly present in the writings of the Church Fathers.
There are many examples in the first two centuries that indicate the primacy of the bishop of Rome, but St. Irenaeus of Lyons (writing in 189) lays out an especially explicit papal doctrine:
"We put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vanity, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings, by indicating that Tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every church agree with this church, on account of its preeminent authority, that is, the faithful everywhere, in so far as the apostolic Tradition has been preserved continuously by those [faithful men] who exist everywhere."
Other ante-Nicene witnesses to the papacy include Clement of Rome, Hermas of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, Dionysius of Corinth, Cyprian of Carthage, Fermilion of Caesarea, and Eusebius of Caesarea.
Augustine himself wrote, "The consent of people and nations keeps me in the Church; so does her authority, inaugurated by miracles, nourished by hope, enlarged by love, established by age. The succession of priests keeps me, beginning from the very seat of the apostle Peter, to whom the Lord, after his Resurrection, put in charge of feeding his sheep, down to the present episcopate [of Pope Siricius]."
For an expansive catalog of the Church Fathers' ecclesiology and views on questions like apostolic succession and the papacy, check out Jimmy Akin's fantastic compilation: www.amazon.com/gp/product/1933919345/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=jimmyakincom-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399369&creativeASIN=1933919345
Very helpful video, thank you!
Some methodological pushback: there are many Presbyterian denominations, same with Baptist and Lutheran. Thoughts on the deeper nuances on this point?
I’d love to see RUclipsrs from each of the denominations do their own tier videos like this. Intriguing way of seeing how the different denominations relate to/view each other.
Edit: actually more just the denominations in the S-C tiers would be interesting to see if they did videos, maybe some D tier ones, but probably not the F tier ones. They might just say everyone is wrong and not even have tiers for them lol.
Thank you for the fair description of Pentecostalism. Yes it’s true there are a lot of heresies like word of faith that tend to be Pentecostal. But there are very thoughtful biblically sound people within Pentecostalism like Mike Winger and Michael Brown.
As a former atheist and current-fence sitter with regards to religion, I can tell you we absolutely agree on the importance of church architecture.
I used to pass this new age church on my way to work everyday. They essentially bought out an old warehouse and turned it into a church.
Now on one hand, I suppose there's beauty in that: people coming together to worship and build bonds in the bones of a dead-end business. And the good that's done there is a net positive, I'm sure.
But c'mon. If you're gonna worship the Lord, it makes sense to create the coolest fuckin' place you can imagine for doing it. Not a stadium, not a warehouse, not an old school, but a damn treasure. A place you WANT to go. A place you think about even when you're not there. Beauty can be a lure, there's no denying, but it can also be a powerful ally.
I just know if I ever convert, it won't be to a denomination that worships in a mall. XD Great video man, love your content. Incredibly informative.
Hey don’t think too hard on “converting” just take steps to be open to God. I grew up in church but struggled with not “feeling it” but it wasn’t until I had legit experiences that I was like oh.. this is not a thought exercise, God is personal of you let Him be. But I think too many people act like or even teach that you gotta fix yourself before you can be a Christian, but it’s literally the opposite. There’s lots of freedom in true worship. And there’s lots of beauty to be seen when you view the world from the perspective of not only believing in an intelligent designer but knowing that the designer is personal.
Having been raised Mennonite as a kid and then a more pentecostal nondenominational as a teen young adult, I loved your term for the Non Denominational’s being more “the mercenaries” of the body of Christ 😂 or Baptist with a small “b”, its Spot on!
The more that I have studied the bible and the history of the church the more reformed I have become. Thanks for putting this together.
Also I do think the Roman Catholic should move up to tier A
I'm from an pentecostal church and I'm very impressed by how different my church is from your description "I think this is because that i'm from a different country (Brazil)". In my church we believe in trinity, we don't focus in speaking tongues, and we focus more in the theology and studies of the bible. Looks like a mix of the baptist and the presbyterian ngl, but it's really true that we have a proper "church tradition" what in my 100% fair and not biased opinion is a great thing just focusing on the bible, real studies and theology alone.
edit: we don't have a church tradition
I live in the southern United States and my pentecostal church does the same
Pentecostal hereeee and we are the same!!
Which church are you from
"Ehmm why isn't the Orthodox Church more open minded" it seems our superiority has been the subject of some controversy
As a Catholic, I was told that Calvinists believe God choses who he saves and who he punishes after death, and therefore that he doesn't love all humans, is it really true?
Presbyterians are lgbt affirming too
Some are and other aren’t. Splits have been a thing, better yet apostasy has been a thing for awhile. And liberalism (not the political type) is heresy. So I don’t consider heretical churches to be a part of the body of Christ.
Just PCUSA. PCA is still good