Mine is that the railroad is the "right path". Vinz (Grunwalski) strayed and Hubert (the story teller) chastized him for it, causing him to go even further. Until he couldn't come back when he wanted to. Not before it was too late.
@@thealgerian3285 I agree with the Algeria. Shortly before this scene, while in the same bathroom, Vinz had told Hubert he did not go to school so he did not get what Hubert was saying. So Vinz would always play catch up as he could not reach Hubert's comprehension level. Vinz(Grunwalski) would have to drop his pride to catch up
Well pretty much yes,but here some extra spice.The movie emphasises a lot of repetance to ...well "emphasise" the point of the movie.Jusqu'ici tout va bien,or in the simillar fashion Hubert's quote "hate brings hate",as long as you are driven by pride you will end up repeating pointless actions,like Gruwalski picking up his pants while facing death,Vinz does the same thing,chasing his pride through revenge meanwhile change away from hatred is needed. Gruwalski needed to grow tougher skin within the train,Vinz needed to be more thoughful within social chaos.
It's so far from Pride... this is about what a Holocaust prison is like, and he's suggesting these French Boys are living a new form of Holocaust prisoner life.
its about pride being a sin, grunwalksi refused to lose his modesty by dropping his pants, if he had and he grabbed his friends hand he wouldnt of died. it relates to vinz refusing to lose face, and in the end they both die
oscar wilde I think he grabbed his pants that he was able to run and won't fall. The key element of the story is that he had to go behind the bush to take his sh*t.
Not it is about “pride” or “sin” stop repeating yourself. It is a tragic outcome of him in the system . They’re not acting out of “pride”. He didn’t “sin”.
The story told by the old man about his friend Grunwalski, staging his friend's death in Siberia, raises a dilemma between dignity and abandonment, symbolized by his choice between putting his unzipped pants back on and grabbing his companion's hand to get back on the train. This choice between dignity and survival represents a vicious circle that the main suburban characters experience on a daily basis. They find themselves constantly faced with decisions where they must choose between giving up their dignity to survive or preserving their pride, even if this may lead to their own destruction. Grunwalski's death in the story told by the old man can be interpreted as a metaphor for the situation Vince finds himself in. Grunwalski is faced with a choice between dignity and survival, symbolized by the dilemma of putting his undone pants back on or catching the train and giving up his dignity. This may reflect the dilemmas Vince faces in the suburbs, where he must constantly choose between preserving his dignity or doing what is necessary to survive.
I believe he might have still had his trousers on his ankles as he crawled abroad. Even if not, he could cover himself with something else, or even borrow a knicker from his friend. The point is, sometimes it is not as bad as you think. Or even if it is, let go of your ego and pursuit of looking good. What would you choose; to get home to your family in underwear, or to leave them alone not to see you again forever?
He teased him so much he ended up causing the man's death as it had affected him so badly, and now in turn the old man has to live with the consequences of what he did. The whole film is like a philosophical treatise on action and consequence.
He wasn’t the only one, they were all doing it, the cod ruins You’re attributing guilt, you don’t if erstand this, the magnitude of suffering and how multiplied
The assumptions about individualised guilt is based on you simply not understanding that something is *not* a man to man individual issue Like you can’t comprehend the point it’s about the whole SYSTEM causing suffering on a mass scale He is in many ways numbed. It was part of the horribleness of the whole ordeal, it wasn’t soem one thjng It’s not about does god believe in HIM personally like it’s his own story, it’s about the whole context. The whole thing
Although you may joke and kid around with your friends it may come a time when you have to look out for them. Their anger may blind them, so its in your best interest to look out for them especially if they are about to put themselves in a foolish situation. R.I.P Grunwalski.....R.I.P VINZ
I see that a lot of people get it wrong. Heres why: 1. Grunwalski was shy. He didnt choose to be shy. He just was this way. 2. Others teased him because of that. 3. When the train stopped, he took a dump further from everyone else because he was shy, because of his nature, not because he wanted to prove smth. 4. When he was running and reaching for the hand, he had to stop, pick up his pants and start running again. Its not about his pride, its because of common sense. You cant run with your pants down. You are running while holding your pants, and when you try to grab other preson's hand, the pants fall down. Stop talking about such BS like "If he dropped his pants and grabbed the man's hand, he would lose his modesty and honor but keep his life.". If you want to grab person's hand, you need to be running (which you can do only while holind your pants). The problem with Grunwalski is this. People noticed that he was shy. But instead of helping him, they teased him in the showers. If they hadnt been teasing him, he wouldnt so far away from the train to take a dump. And then everything would be fine. So the problem is not the nature of Grunwalski (i.e. him being shy), or as others think his "pride", but its all about others teasing him.
I think that this scene is about fate more than, for example pride or ego. It doesn't matter if grunwalski(vinz) holds on to his pants(ego) or lets them go, he just can't catch up. And this is his fate in the movie, whatever he does, it will never be the right thing.
I feel this is even deeper than just abandonning your pride, the end with "what happened, nothing goodbye" foreshadowing vinz actions will change nothing
Vinz can't accept the fact that the police may want to help them (shown when Saïd talks about how the paris police are respectful and Vinz dismisses him without having spoken to the police himself). Because of his refusal to let go of his pride (akin to Grunswalski holding his hand out but having to pull up his trousers), he insulted Notre Dame on the roofs in an earlier scene with the belief that all policemen are evil. Because of this, Notre Dame shoots him at the end of the film. Similar to Grunswalski, Vinz died because he couldn't relinquish his pride.
It could be looked at like this but obviously the point of it all is that no side is innocent and no side is entirely to blame. The man who told the story might also feel like it’s his fault Grunwalski died since he constantly teased him. Obviously teasing someone is not such a terrible thing to do but like the opening and ending of the film say: “jusqu’ici tout va bien….mais l’important c’est pas la chute, c’est l’atterrissage”
I disagree that him not dropping his pants represent inability to let go of pride like many of you have suggested; pride is indeed a major factor in the film, but in the end its about pushing a people (or Grunwalski) away from the rest of society, and when they fall behind with their pant on their knees, at one point it will be too late to save them. Your regret, good intentions and second thoughts wont help when they`re already fallling from the skyscraper - what matters is the landing. Even though the old man survived he still carries the responsibility of indirectly killing a man. A neglectfull society that is indifferent to its less fortunate wont become a better place by ignoring or exterminating the troubled people, whos troubles start with the rich and powerful to begin with, in the cycle of ignorance and hate. I also think its a reminder of perspective: there are worse faiths out there, and a man once part of the system of voilence and ignorance (whether a Siberian guard of an inmate) can again regain his dignity and be a part of society, in spite of the pain he has caused and suffered along the way. Now there walks a man who has learned from this experience, instead of continuing the hate.
I think people are overthinking this scene. In my opinion, it represents the realism reflected by Kassovitz, in that even in a social realism film like this which shows the doom and gloom, they are still able to enjoy life, with little and silly occurences or situations like this that happen. This scene is a comedic element to a at times, depressing film, whilst also comforting an audience that may be traumatised by the events that occur throughout.
my interpretation is that is not pride but the habits of everyone and how we dont want to show weakness to everyone just like vinz is not a killer, but he tried to look like one because he is scared of the world and that fear becomes hate, at the end vinz discovers that but its already too late for all the things he did it
the characters in the movie themselves asked what he was talking about, also this story directly parallels vinz's story. this is not the only metaphor in the movie, this movie is a masterpiece and taking it at face value would be foolish
This "pride" stuff is BS. It's about an old man, explaining how they're going to die alone, despite being among friends, because culture by then in the late 80's has broken and whatever this man was being victimized by, as a Holocaust Prisoner... is the same thing happening to the 3 or so young French Boys he's heard... talking to each other as he was taking a bowel movement before this youtube clip begins... these French kids are impoverished, they don't understand their "anger"/ hate... and by the end of the evening, one of their friends is shot dead... in a similar confusing situation, as if they missed the metro train home... this story literally doesn't make since to the young french boys... but what kills this Grunowlski is not Pride... he's fed up being made fun of, even by his fellow victimized holocaust prisoners...
Кино
My interpretation is that the story is about pride and the unwillingness to lose face.
i believe so too
Mine is that the railroad is the "right path".
Vinz (Grunwalski) strayed and Hubert (the story teller) chastized him for it, causing him to go even further.
Until he couldn't come back when he wanted to. Not before it was too late.
@@thealgerian3285 I agree with the Algeria. Shortly before this scene, while in the same bathroom, Vinz had told Hubert he did not go to school so he did not get what Hubert was saying. So Vinz would always play catch up as he could not reach Hubert's comprehension level. Vinz(Grunwalski) would have to drop his pride to catch up
Well pretty much yes,but here some extra spice.The movie emphasises a lot of repetance to ...well "emphasise" the point of the movie.Jusqu'ici tout va bien,or in the simillar fashion Hubert's quote "hate brings hate",as long as you are driven by pride you will end up repeating pointless actions,like Gruwalski picking up his pants while facing death,Vinz does the same thing,chasing his pride through revenge meanwhile change away from hatred is needed.
Gruwalski needed to grow tougher skin within the train,Vinz needed to be more thoughful within social chaos.
It's so far from Pride... this is about what a Holocaust prison is like, and he's suggesting these French Boys are living a new form of Holocaust prisoner life.
its about pride being a sin, grunwalksi refused to lose his modesty by dropping his pants, if he had and he grabbed his friends hand he wouldnt of died. it relates to vinz refusing to lose face, and in the end they both die
oscar wilde I think he grabbed his pants that he was able to run and won't fall. The key element of the story is that he had to go behind the bush to take his sh*t.
Pretty great analysis
you are wrong
@@AngelParkOfficial you are correct
Not it is about “pride” or “sin” stop repeating yourself.
It is a tragic outcome of him in the system
.
They’re not acting out of “pride”. He didn’t “sin”.
The story told by the old man about his friend Grunwalski, staging his friend's death in Siberia, raises a dilemma between dignity and abandonment, symbolized by his choice between putting his unzipped pants back on and grabbing his companion's hand to get back on the train. This choice between dignity and survival represents a vicious circle that the main suburban characters experience on a daily basis. They find themselves constantly faced with decisions where they must choose between giving up their dignity to survive or preserving their pride, even if this may lead to their own destruction. Grunwalski's death in the story told by the old man can be interpreted as a metaphor for the situation Vince finds himself in. Grunwalski is faced with a choice between dignity and survival, symbolized by the dilemma of putting his undone pants back on or catching the train and giving up his dignity. This may reflect the dilemmas Vince faces in the suburbs, where he must constantly choose between preserving his dignity or doing what is necessary to survive.
Thanks for the high school philosophy comment
whats yo problem mate I like his comment i found it very instructive@@upcoming
@@Yungin_senseems to be ai generated
I believe he might have still had his trousers on his ankles as he crawled abroad. Even if not, he could cover himself with something else, or even borrow a knicker from his friend. The point is, sometimes it is not as bad as you think. Or even if it is, let go of your ego and pursuit of looking good. What would you choose; to get home to your family in underwear, or to leave them alone not to see you again forever?
He didn’t “stage” anything
He teased him so much he ended up causing the man's death as it had affected him so badly, and now in turn the old man has to live with the consequences of what he did. The whole film is like a philosophical treatise on action and consequence.
Hubert is the old man. Vinz is G
He wasn’t the only one, they were all doing it, the cod ruins
You’re attributing guilt, you don’t if erstand this, the magnitude of suffering and how multiplied
The assumptions about individualised guilt is based on you simply not understanding that something is *not* a man to man individual issue
Like you can’t comprehend the point it’s about the whole SYSTEM causing suffering on a mass scale
He is in many ways numbed.
It was part of the horribleness of the whole ordeal, it wasn’t soem one thjng
It’s not about does god believe in HIM personally like it’s his own story, it’s about the whole context. The whole thing
@@boardingurbanNo.
@@boardingurbanIt’s actually brain melting how you can’t get the point
I like how everyone have different interpretations of this scene
I disgaree
Although you may joke and kid around with your friends it may come a time when you have to look out for them. Their anger may blind them, so its in your best interest to look out for them especially if they are about to put themselves in a foolish situation. R.I.P Grunwalski.....R.I.P VINZ
grunwaldzki didn’t have ager
I see that a lot of people get it wrong. Heres why:
1. Grunwalski was shy. He didnt choose to be shy. He just was this way.
2. Others teased him because of that.
3. When the train stopped, he took a dump further from everyone else because he was shy, because of his nature, not because he wanted to prove smth.
4. When he was running and reaching for the hand, he had to stop, pick up his pants and start running again. Its not about his pride, its because of common sense. You cant run with your pants down. You are running while holding your pants, and when you try to grab other preson's hand, the pants fall down. Stop talking about such BS like "If he dropped his pants and grabbed the man's hand, he would lose his modesty and honor but keep his life.". If you want to grab person's hand, you need to be running (which you can do only while holind your pants).
The problem with Grunwalski is this. People noticed that he was shy. But instead of helping him, they teased him in the showers. If they hadnt been teasing him, he wouldnt so far away from the train to take a dump. And then everything would be fine. So the problem is not the nature of Grunwalski (i.e. him being shy), or as others think his "pride", but its all about others teasing him.
Salute from Brasil for that
I think that this scene is about fate more than, for example pride or ego. It doesn't matter if grunwalski(vinz) holds on to his pants(ego) or lets them go, he just can't catch up. And this is his fate in the movie, whatever he does, it will never be the right thing.
Ego siw uesirkable😊
I feel this is even deeper than just abandonning your pride, the end with "what happened, nothing goodbye" foreshadowing vinz actions will change nothing
Vinz can't accept the fact that the police may want to help them (shown when Saïd talks about how the paris police are respectful and Vinz dismisses him without having spoken to the police himself). Because of his refusal to let go of his pride (akin to Grunswalski holding his hand out but having to pull up his trousers), he insulted Notre Dame on the roofs in an earlier scene with the belief that all policemen are evil. Because of this, Notre Dame shoots him at the end of the film. Similar to Grunswalski, Vinz died because he couldn't relinquish his pride.
he is not called notre dame 💀 Notre dame is a cathedral someone just made that joke because of his hat haha
@@fredcarr9127 actually the name of the plain clothes officer in the cast listing is "Inspector Notre Dame"
It could be looked at like this but obviously the point of it all is that no side is innocent and no side is entirely to blame. The man who told the story might also feel like it’s his fault Grunwalski died since he constantly teased him. Obviously teasing someone is not such a terrible thing to do but like the opening and ending of the film say: “jusqu’ici tout va bien….mais l’important c’est pas la chute, c’est l’atterrissage”
My French teacher says this scene represents how things and society move whether you're ready or not.
Ton prof de Français est nul
The only figure outside their neighborhood that they respect!
Great movie.
I disagree that him not dropping his pants represent inability to let go of pride like many of you have suggested; pride is indeed a major factor in the film, but in the end its about pushing a people (or Grunwalski) away from the rest of society, and when they fall behind with their pant on their knees, at one point it will be too late to save them. Your regret, good intentions and second thoughts wont help when they`re already fallling from the skyscraper - what matters is the landing. Even though the old man survived he still carries the responsibility of indirectly killing a man. A neglectfull society that is indifferent to its less fortunate wont become a better place by ignoring or exterminating the troubled people, whos troubles start with the rich and powerful to begin with, in the cycle of ignorance and hate.
I also think its a reminder of perspective: there are worse faiths out there, and a man once part of the system of voilence and ignorance (whether a Siberian guard of an inmate) can again regain his dignity and be a part of society, in spite of the pain he has caused and suffered along the way. Now there walks a man who has learned from this experience, instead of continuing the hate.
the old man isnt called grunwalski, the friend who died is grunwalski
I think people are overthinking this scene. In my opinion, it represents the realism reflected by Kassovitz, in that even in a social realism film like this which shows the doom and gloom, they are still able to enjoy life, with little and silly occurences or situations like this that happen. This scene is a comedic element to a at times, depressing film, whilst also comforting an audience that may be traumatised by the events that occur throughout.
great scene
It just means that some friends are toxic and won't help you whatever they try to do good
this movie...
my interpretation is that is not pride but the habits of everyone and how we dont want to show weakness to everyone just like vinz is not a killer, but he tried to look like one because he is scared of the world and that fear becomes hate, at the end vinz discovers that but its already too late for all the things he did it
Grunwaldski
There is no easy way out... ;-)
In other words, think smart
Got to be one of the best monologes in cinema history?!
Next stop: Exorcist III The (1990) The Carp joke
Why must you all try to find meaning in his words instead of understanding them for what they are is the true question.
the characters in the movie themselves asked what he was talking about, also this story directly parallels vinz's story. this is not the only metaphor in the movie, this movie is a masterpiece and taking it at face value would be foolish
Moralité : À force de te moquer de quelqu'un, il fini par faire des conneries, TU le pousses à faire des conneries.
He specifically says he holds up his pants so he doesn't fall, though, not to keep his pride, which is what fucks with me
En voilà une bien étrange histoire russe.
Sauver son honneur ou perdre la vie. A méditer. Si contemporain!
Vive la Russie 🇷🇺
…Russe?! Russie?
Polonais deportés par Staline après 1939!
Polonais etc
Vowi ne comprenez
My interpretation of this scene is simple: there's nothing like a good 💩😳😊😊
Why was the french in ww2 in a prisoners train to Siberia???
I believe it is a Polish man who was sent to a łagier, survived, and later emmigrated to France.
@@godles1290 correct he have an accent
he comes from eastern europe, he has a very strong slavic accent
He isn’t fucking French lol
@@bilp_bloup_botthere is no “Eastern Europe” or “Slavic” accent (Slavic languages differ a lot by accent).
He was from Poland.
Death be4 dishonR the bad side
I think that this scene is about shit
Damnnnn
what's the moral behind this story?
i still don't fucken know.
🎏
Shit
la youth la hain la never again jawakschem okay wiederstand oka ynever
wirte ya goverment
Why does the old polgrom Jew tell them that? Is it because the fate of life is in our hands and not in the hands of God?
I'm inlove with Vito Al Bertoli ❤️
Kisses bae 😘
I hope you still Love him
This "pride" stuff is BS. It's about an old man, explaining how they're going to die alone, despite being among friends, because culture by then in the late 80's has broken and whatever this man was being victimized by, as a Holocaust Prisoner... is the same thing happening to the 3 or so young French Boys he's heard... talking to each other as he was taking a bowel movement before this youtube clip begins... these French kids are impoverished, they don't understand their "anger"/ hate... and by the end of the evening, one of their friends is shot dead... in a similar confusing situation, as if they missed the metro train home... this story literally doesn't make since to the young french boys... but what kills this Grunowlski is not Pride... he's fed up being made fun of, even by his fellow victimized holocaust prisoners...
Why do you think he was a holocaust prisoner exactly? He’s talking about goulags in Siberia
why are people reading so deep into it, as a french person, I took it as a funny old man coming out of the shitter scene spouting random wise BS
@@swamp1097 because this tupes of dialogues in the movie try to reveal the theme. The scene is funny but you have to analyze it.