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@Vincent Valentine I mean if you think about it. It makes sense. Not to mention if it was Zacks materia. It's still cloud wielding it on the buster sword in that scene
@@Apollo-Computersbro I was doing that, I gave in and bought one this past weekend. I spent 25 hours in the last 3 days on that game so far, not counting the time I used to read the walk through lol
@@pablotomasllodra4423 yeah I figured that boss fight was kind of a way to justify it since Zack and Sephiroth shouldn’t be that different in skill talent power etc at this point in time. Since it’s demonstrated that Genesis and Sephiroth are different in strength but not tremendously and Zack beats Genesis. He’s insane but fights Zack and beats him narrowly then gets distracted and gets stabbed by a grunt and falls into the life stream which is what really finishes him off. And then he basically comes back a god.
@@_Tizoc_ I think those subsequent titles shouldn't be given the same creedence, whether they are 'canon' or not. But, w/e, sure that's not how it works. As someone who first played the game in '98, and then several times throughout the following decade (not to mention a couple times since) ... It seems so against the point and theme to suggest that Zack would be 'close' to Sephiroth. If he stands as such in current canon, it is not due to original intent, but due to Square-Enix's greed and need to shill out spin-offs.... Like, The flashback. Clouds false memory, he was superimposing himself onto Zack. That fight before Nibelheim, and the whole way to the reactor. 'Clouds' Power level would reflect Zack's, right? An itty baby compared to Sephiroth. Strong compared to normal people, no doubt. But if it is now canon that Zack would be within punching distance of Sephiroth is absolutely ridiculous.
I think you're just struggling to understand what a SOLDIER is even in the original. Its the most elite group of warriors on the planet. Cloud was never one of them. We don't know many of them in the original work, just Zack and Sephiroth. THE only character positioned in the same space as Sephiroth in the original game is Zack. IDK though the second flashback with Zack is more robust but also miss-able maybe you never watched it. The main thing we know in the original is that Zack was strong and Cloud was weak and that Cloud through experimentation did eventually also become strong. But he had to be carted around by Zack in order to survive his ordeals (and once again by Tifa in the main timeline but I digress). Another thing we know is that Cloud was not yet strong at the time he sucker punched Sephiroth into the lifestream. One of Cloud's major character developments is his coming to terms with his dependence and inter-connectedness with other people. He's strong but a major source of his strength is relying on the strength of others. His stroic and independent cynical attitude belies a history of weakness and dependence on other people and accepting that makes him more powerful. The other thing is that Sephiroth in the original game becomes much more powerful after falling into the lifestream, the godlike version of him is a result of his death and resurrection. And that's why it takes a full team of adventurers to go up north and slay him. He was the most powerful SOLDIER but nothing compared to what comes later. It's never been an unreasonable assumption that Zack would be close to his power in a relative sense at that time in the story. @@PraxisAbraxis
I remember when this theory became popular several years ago. Then we started to think about how it was actually Zack who had the materia, but then that didn't matter because Zack had the materia equipped in the buster sword, which Cloud used when he attacked Sephiroth. It was all really well thought out by the developers.
I have 2 times summon equipped with nights o t round. I can multiply this with mimic granted at a slight lower damage. I'll do an omnislash and 4xtimes Ultima on ya!
Preemptive strike served one purpose, it allowed Cloud to have a single attack during combat before Sephiroth annihilates all enemies with mastered magic. It was their way of comparing his attacks to Sephiroth’s which was a genius move to further illustrate the vast ocean of power between the party and Sephiroth at this point in the game.
Then to put further emphasis on his power, just after this they intend for you to get a chocobo to get past the Zolom only for you to immediately see Sephiroth kebab'd one of them. It's definitely part of his power showcase.
@@Game2590 actually the majority of the game you're just chasing a Numbered remnant that because of the Jenova cells he stole from Shinra HQ was able to manifest as a Sephiroth copy. This is why when Cloud confronts him in the ship he doesn't know who Cloud is and asked what his number was.
@@garwynrosser8907 Yes, correct. But it was Cloud in the flashback having the preemptive strike, Zack never had that. I said Cloud to make it easier to understand.
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That mod seriously looks like shit. Those character models look atrocious in front of the original backgrounds, and the mixed pixel density is absurd. It looks 100x better at its original resolution with a CRT filter (ps1 version)
Duuuudeee, mind blown. It never occurred to me that was why he had that. However, it was probably more than that since he faced down the wounded Sephiroth after. Cloud had talent, Zack saw it, and so did others. A big part of the story was him overcoming that mental block to reach his full potential.
@@jessensloan6692Cloud actually is physically as strong as Zack but never made it into 1st Class due to his mental health, not his physical! That’s also half the plot is showing you how unstable Cloud’s mentality is
@@ann._.skz21 he was mentally unstable throughout the game because of Hojos experiments. Not because he needed Prozac. He literally wasn't as strong or as impressive as Zack. It wouldn't even be as interesting if he were. Stop trying to force cloud lifting sephiroth while selfie sticked BY THE SELFIE STICK. Why didn't seph just let go, for example
@@jessensloan6692he wasn't as strong but he was physically above normal humans. He fell into a cliff as a kid and only scraped his knees, plus the sephiroth situation. Cloud didn't get into soldier because of his mental state. Also seph was arrogant af at that time, vastly mentally unstable and injured heavily by cloud so makes sense letting go wasn't his first thought. He didn't think cloud was a threat.
There was a theory that since nibelheim is located in a place where mako is abundant. kids who grew up there are vinherently strong. like tifa and cloud.
I think there is validity to this. Especially considering child cloud and Tifa surviving a massive fall. The game does make it clear that Mako corrupts more often than it improves, so you'd be in a Spiderman situation, where the heroes are lucky, and almost everyone else that seeks power through science is unlucky.
For all the useless complaint fan of the old games complaint, THIS is actually something that is missing in the latest actual link between gameplay and story, just like Rude will never attack Tifa in battle cause he has a crush for her.
@@davemccombs Cloud wasn't like Zach I don't know why he had the strength to lift sephiroth off the ground when he was in the air suspended on a sword that was in his chest. Be wrong louder.
Nah that was his Limit Break coming out from the emotional extreme, something that all humans canonically have on Gaia but isn't always awakened, so another gameplay thingy integrated into the narrative.
Nice find! It reminds me of how Cait Sith has "Manipulate" equipped both serving as a meaning for being a puppet manipulated by a human, and that they are acting as a Shinra Spy for the beginning portions of the game.
To be fair cloud isn’t exactly just a normal guy either. When he was 9 he and tifa fell of a mountain. and while she almost died and was in a coma for 7 days. My guy just got scraped knees. It isn’t exactly normal for kids to be that tough
Was also stabbed through the stomach and managed to lift a man far taller than himself and toss him with the sword lodged in his belly over the barrier.
I think it just boils down to the fact that Sephiroth was super distracted and Cloud just rushed him. Didn’t give a monologue or a barbaric cry as he moved, just ran up and stabbed ol’ mate in the back with a GIANT FUCKING SWORD.
Always figured Cloud was born in Nibleheim, which had the first prototype reactor. Bets that the reactor leaked like a sieve, causing near-Soldier levels?
This is a cool explanation but it’s more logical to think Sephiroth was so preoccupied with Jenova that he just wasn’t aware or paying attention to what was going on around him at the time
@@Xeno_Solarus yeh man totally. It’s not uncommon for people to be easily taken by surprise when they are preoccupied and their attention is elsewhere.
Literally the first thing I did when playing the FF7 Rebirth demo was check for the preemptive strike materia and IT WASN’T THERE 😢 I’m gutted because this was such a good detail!
FF7 has been one of my favorite games since I was a kid. I've played it until the in game timer maxed out, and that's just one save file. I've beaten it more times than I can count. I knew Young Cloud had pre-emptive strike and STILL never made the connection to him getting the jump on Sephiroth. Amazing. Thank you.
Ok but explain how sephiroth puts his sword through clouds abdomen, only for cloud to lift sephiroth off his feet, sword still inserted, and toss him off a ledge down into the reactor...
I wanted to say that they should add this in Rebirth but they can't because of the Battle System. All they can do is change the Materia so if you attack an enemy from the back you deal more damage.
They might be already building up to it. Remember that the ability you can learn on the Buster Sword is Focused Thrust, and you can bet that they’ll make even more new materia to justify the back attack.
Well, they could add a back attack sequence, where the enemy is facing the other way and caught unaware for 5 seconds, making every hit deal bonus damage.
One thing to point out is that Cloud is not a normal human. Cloud is physically on the same level as a SOLDIER 1st Class. The only reason Cloud never made it into SOLDIER despite passing the physical requirements was because of his low self estimate making him mentally weak and when a weak minded person is given JENOVA cells they are taken over by the cells. So Cloud is naturally strong physical and that was why he was able to defeat Sephiroth.
SOLDIERs have super-human strength because they're infused with Jenova cells during the process of becoming a SOLDIER. Cloud is infused with Jenova cells and Mako after the Nibelheim incident, which is why he has super-human capabilities during FFVII and not Crisis Core. It's why everyone comments on his eyes and why everyone actually believes his lie.
Hes naturally stong but not naturally on the level of soldier that took the mako infusion albeit in this case jenova cells were used but that was after the Sephiroth incident
@@dennisgoatimer1079 Cloud was on par with a 1st Class in terms of strength and capabilities. JENOVA have never fully explained how they make you better, if they even really do. From what I remember the only difference between a 1st and 2nd class is 1st class were injected with JENOVA cells. After Genises defected so did many 1st classes which I believe resulted in many 3rd and 2nd classes being given JENOVA cells to replenish the force they lost. I would also like to point out that Tifa, Red, Barret, Cid and Yuffie are all able to fight on par with regular 1st in game. We really have only been shown a handful of super human 1st which makes me think that Angela, Genises and Sephiroth are capable of doing what they can because they are genetic modifications while 1st like Zack are just more skillful. So I do not belive JENOVA cells in themselves make you stronger, they simply improve what skills the person already has
@@andrewcarlton6196 That's simply false Cloud would easily beat Barret and Tifa in a fight without game restrictions yes Tifa and Barrett and the rest are strong but without game restrictions which makes them so they wouldn't be anywhere near Cloud's level. Not all first class got Jenova cells but only first class got Jenova cells. The rest of the cast would probably make 2nd class which would be Cloud's level before the Jenova cells. The best case study for this is Zack he got the same treatment as Cloud in Nibelheim but he managed to escape unscathed from it whilst Cloud got Mako Poisoning. As Zack being already Soldier having the Mako already in him that's been mutating him leading to the experiments failure whilst Cloud was too weak both mentally and physically (the guy was stabbed with Masamune for Christ sake) that he was left vegetative for quite some time which admittedly Cloud in that state lead to Zack's death but atleast he died with honour. Zack with only Mako really pushed it to its limits Cloud eventually surpassed him as he had Mako and Jenova cells in him which yes you need skill to properly use it but still it's there. It's basically anime so there's people strong without the Mako energy like the Turks and of course Tifa (Mako could've leaked from the Mako reactor in Nibelheim) and the gang but don't underestimate the power of Mako and Jenova Cells
To be more precise with this, Cloud himself didn't equip the materia on the Buster Sword, Zack did. So Cloud basically gained the materia's effects when he grabbed the sword, but you also need to understand that since it's only one star, it was just a small chance, so Cloud basically got really lucky that Sephiroth was really distracted, otherwise, he would've been dead bfeore he even got close.
Genius, that AND I'd imagine his adrenaline was all the way up with everything happening around them PLUS his grief over his mom, Tifa and the town. I'd think that combo gave him strength
The only thing that really explains is something we already had an explanation for. Seph got ganked because he was too focused on Jenova. He was too arrogant and believed that nobody could touch him, let alone some little Shinra guard like Cloud. He had no reason to turn around. The question isn't how Cloud snuck up on Sephiroth. It's how he managed to nearly kill him with a single stab, and then annihilate him further into the reactor. Zack, it is not only stronger than Cloud, but also had tons more experience and disposing of SOLDIERs was nearly killed by Sephiroth. Preemptive attack materia doesn't increase your strength. That was all Cloud. The preemptive material was likely only added so that less enemies got a shot off on Cloud/Zack, making you feel less puny as Sephiroth killed everything.
The only reason cloud ever got that close and even struck sephiroth let him, sephiroth literally stated he would join with the Lifestream and use the planet to travel the universe as a god. He only let people think he died so could enact his plan without disruption.
Thats after he fall to the lifestream n learn more.. Sepiroth planing to get away with jenova head.. Not to join lifestream.. But cloud fight back n toss him back in the direction he once came n accidently sent him to live stream.. N sepiroth lose the jenova head that he purposely carried with him
Another similar easter egg occurs when you first meet Cait Sith. He basically forces you into letting him come with you. And he has the "Manipulate" materia equipped. Just two of the clever ways the writers used materia in the worldbuilding in very organic, understated ways.
If we're using game logic for this theory, Cloud shouldn't have been able to kill and/or injure Sephiroth because his strength isn't high enough to do. So even if he critically struck Sephiroth with the back attack bonus with a limit break, he wouldn't do enough damage to hit 3200 and change, which is Sephiroth's current HP... unless Zack damaged Sephiroth critically during their battle
Ok you're going too literal with the health lol. We've seen aerith die from one back attack yet being able to tank 50 hits and cast a limit break to negate all damage. Items also are not canon, which is why there is a separate "Key Items" Menu. For stuff we see referenced and used in the story. "Game logic" in the sense of how materia functions and works.
I have for some odd reason read comments in this thread for 3 hours now of dudes fighting over what the original authors meant/intended 1. It’s ok to suspend disbelief and enjoy a story as none are perfect 2 I’m amazed that nobody has suggested or brought up the ideation of the life stream/mako connecting with Cloud during this moment to empower him, as the energy was running full bore right below them 3. Why have I been reading hours of dudes fighting whilst on the toilet, I’m not even doing anything on here anymore 😂
Always thought it was more weird Cloud could lift a sword up while it was in his gut and throw him down a reactor. Seph was in complete disbelief. I still am
Cloud is a “sephiroth clone”. A true replica of Jenova. Which is why he’s the protagonist. Jenova invaded Gaia to seek refuge from the real threat. To be continued in FFVII remake Pt. 16
That's only after the fight with Sephiroth when he was powered up by pure jenova cells before then he was just a ordinary human going against a pure ancient admittedly one who already had to battle with Zack but still
He's not a clone, that's the big twist that gets debunked later. FF7 is like Rashomon: various flashbacks and people's own versions of events contradict each other and what you see in the middle is not how it actually was.
@@DOC_951 I always felt that they used the word "Clone" as a reference to trying to copy Sephiroth's power trough experimentation. Not actually a full on clone from birth.
If we would use game logic to explain this, then Cloud would preemptive strike Sephiroth and cause about 30 damage, then Sephiroth would just hit Cloud (even with a toothpick) and cause 5000+ damage, killing him instantly.
True, but remember Cloud still overpowered Sephiroth and threw him into the Lifestream with a Katana sticking in him. Preemptive strike does not allow that. Cloud is just built different, he just never knew it. Because his strength only comes out when his friends are threatened.
My mind was in fact not blown. Cloud also just snuck up on Sephiroth while he was distracted with his mommy issues. This scene was to show that Cloud had hidden depths to his strength, because he managed to kill Sephiroth while already being impaled.
People that dislike FF7 don't realise how deep and well put together the story of Shinra, the Cetra, Jenova, and the backstory of Avalanche truely is. Fate is a powerful thing.
Lol that's a great explanation for how he was able to get the drop on Sephiroth but it still doesn't explain how he survived a stabbing and managed to throw him into the mako.
I always thought of Pre-Emptive materia as granting the user a Spider-Sense-like awareness of their surroundings, so that not only are they never caught off guard in a battlefield, but also quick enough and aware enough to get the drop on the enemies
This is an old, old theory man. Still great, but it's been on the table since it came out in the 90's. If I recall correctly it was discussed amongst other theories about the game in some playstation magazines etc.
@@soggybiscotti8425 Good to know. Of course it's a small detail but this was the first I'd heard of it. It's great when games incorporate gameplay elements into the story. Espers in FF6, Materia in FF7, and Eikons in FF16.
How could it not be intentional? I mean, the materia is there. It’s not there by some random happenstance. They literally put it themselves. Someone had to code that specific materia to be equipped during the Nibelheim event. What, you think someone random coder just did it for shits and giggles and yet have it coincidentally line up with what happened in the reactor and works as the explanation for how Cloud could sneak up on the greatest Solider to ever walk the earth?😂 If so then I’ve got some ocean front property in Arizona I’d like to sell you.
@@InTheMindOfDavid It is in no way the canonical reason. The actual reason is pretty simple. It was just a moment of weakness for Sephiroth as he was enamored by Jenova.
@@Xeno_Solarus It absolutely could be a canonical reason because Materia isn’t just a game mechanic for the players, it’s also heavily integrated into the everyday life of the world of Gia narratively. SOLDIERs actually use materia. In the Flashback a Kalm, Cloud even says “I can’t wait to try out that new Materia I got.” That right there establishes Materia as a narrative device, and then what do we see is in one of Cloud’s Materia slots? That Materia. That materia is there for a reason. Otherwise why is there? Why is it that specific materia, it could just as easily been Fire, or Cover, why not steal, or what about no materia? We don’t ever actually use it during that sequence. So it serves no purpose mechanically through gameplay so why have it there? It’s there for a narrative purpose. So that if you happen to actually look at Cloud’s equipment and see that Materia that then informs and for shadows the the outcome to scene in the Reactor. It’s the classic “show don’t tell” rule of storytelling. They’re showing us that Cloud had a specific materia equipped at that specific time allowing him to sneak up on Sephiroth. Thing are put in places for a reason, it’s not just random nonsense. That’s how storytelling works, especially visual storytelling. Which, obviously needs to be done especially during that era of game development. When it come to massive plot points in a story nothing is happenstance or doesn’t have a specific reason for being there. It’s all intentional. That moment is a PIVOTAL scene in FFVII. That scene was probably meticulously crafted due to just how important what happened in that reactor is to the whole story. They’re not gonna just put a materia there for shits and giggles and not mean for it explain how Cloud snuck up on Sephiroth. Was Sephiroth distracted swimming in his own ego and Edipus complex, yeah absolutely. But I don’t think it would prevent him from hearing cloud run up on him. He’s a Super-Soldier compared to other SOLDIERs, even among other 1st-Class SOLDIERs. He would have heard Cloud just like he had heard Zack before Cloud got there. Except Cloud had that materia equipped thus Sephiroth didn’t even know he was there. I’m not saying it’s “genius level” storytelling but it is visual storytelling and most certainly is the canonical explanation for how events went the way they did what in the Reactor. Otherwise it wouldn’t be there.
He's another fact to augment this. In reality, Cloud is an infantryman and might not even have his own materia. In otherwords, it's not Cloud himself who set this up. It's Zack's Buster Sword having the materia in the slot there, meaning Zack helped more than just having the Buster Sword. And Cloud wouldn't have known what materia Zack would have unless he picked it up.
Cloud actually has insane physical stats, comparable to 1st Class soldier at the time. He just has a weak mental will and weak confidence. He doesn't remember the details of the flashback well including his own strength or Zacks. His memories are quite jumbled. After the incident and further experimentation by Hojo his physical combat abilities are even greater. He also has basically god-tier sword skills easily adapting Zack's combat style and improving upon it just from seeing it. It isn't until Mideel lifestream incident he finally overcomes his mental weakness. He is essentially a character who is grossly overpowered but totally hampered by an incredibly severe weakness.
Ok It's not that literal lol. We've seen aerith take atleast 50 hits in the game yet one attack from behind wipes her out. While she has a limit break that can negate all incoming damage. Items themselves are also not canon. That's why there is a separate "Key Items" menu.
@@loregasmicevery time we saw Sephiroth outside of the Northern Crater it was a part of Jenova's body he was manipulating and calling to. He made them change form but it's all Jenova. Jenova is the natural and mortal enemy of the Ancients. When "Sephiroth" stabbed and killed Aerith, the sword was essentially a sharp Jenova tentacle. Jenova Cells were now inside her. She ded. She also needed to return to the Lifestream to try and purge Sephiroth who was contaminating it. Also.... characters are only knocked out in battle. The enemy then kills them when everyone is knocked out. Phoenix Down doesn't cure death. It's more like a smelling salt. Just like Phoenix is recovery, not resurrection.
@Theinen84 Actually, Phoenix down is just a feather used as an offering to the Phoenix. The higher the quality of the feather, the greater the recovery. An actual feather from a Phoenix would literally resurrect someone, the ones in most shops are typically chocobo chick down, and just help someone regain consciousness.
I'm more baffled as to how he lifted sephiroth with the Murasame and yeeted him off the platform when he was still a normal human (pre-Jenova cells). That was wild 😅
Another thing I always noted as a child was Sephiroth had All materia attached to every element except Fire. For some reason he has every slot filled out but just so happens to not have Fire + All. I always assumed it was because he knew how dangerous it could be, but after losing it and deciding to kill everyone he definitely swapped an All over to his Fire and deleted the town.
I always figured Cloud was a feral boar when pissed but also he was probably tapping into his limit break power. Also, Sephiroth is just absorbed by Jenova's presence, and would be arrogant about his superiority. Basically, he relaxed. Never relax around Cloud.
You could argue that after reading Hojo's research he knew he had to be killed out of anger with unfinished business to become a spirit that can't go back to the lifestream. Which is why he orchestrated Nibelheim. As others still had his cells he couldn't really be dead either. In this form he could still exist after the planet dies. Funny how how in Loveless it actually covers this in the three paths ghosts can follow, haunting, posession and passing on.
Haha, My brother shared this with me when I was like 8 watching him play it for the 20th time and I thought it was a really cool detail and I used to think materia changed all the cutscenes until I actually played the ps1 classic version on my PSPgo when I was like 15 and realized it didn't.
Pre emptive strike is basically sneak attack. In ffxi, the thier is the thief class that has sneak attack, which is, as you guessed, pre emptive strike.
You also have to remember that, prior to Cloud attacking Sephiroth, he had a fierce battle with Zack. Then he went back to worshipping his "mother" Jenova. He was totally focused--engrossed in her. Also, Cloud didn't sneak up on him, he ran up to him to kill him. Taking a buster sword to the gut really wounded him. That's why Cloud was able to overpower and yeet him later on. Sephiroth was powerful, but he wasn't nearly as powerful as the Nibleheim fake flashback at Kalm would suggest. That idea was in Cloud's head. Back then Cloud thought Sephiroth was an unbeatable hero. Think about it. In the battle scenes a dragon can't even hurt Sephiroth, but Cloud did.
Remember this came out before crisis core. So there was no depiction of a "fierce battle" between zack and sephiroth lol zack went in a got yeeted in less than 5 seconds.
Well that’s a serious stretch, but they explain it better in the games beyond this. Cloud was merely an infantryman and sephiroth saw him as a lesser than. Beyond that it was also further explained by using his “inner power” (limit) in the following scene when he overpowered sephiroth and tossed him off the reactor walkway
That still doesnt explain how Cloud, a baby who can barely pass as a shinra grunt at the time, could even LIFT the Buster Sword - let alone Impale Sephiroth through the leg. Btw. This might have been the only time Sephiroth has ever felt actual physical pain - it even made him lucid again long enough to decide to kill Jenova "to be just like you." (Cloud)
Apart from the following: Pre-emptive gives no power up, simply first strike, the only conceivable explanation is that because sephiroth was still human (kind of...) at this point, a sword can kill him, which is still doubtful from his feats up to this point, especially as it doesn't even kill him. Secondly, we check clouds inventory, but that's actually Zacks inventory, cloud being a normal shinra guard at that time would not have been given pre-emptive materia, the only possible explanation is that cloud took Zacks (Angeals) buster sword, and the pre-emptive was slot into the buster sword, which makes sense as it has 2 materia slots at the beginning of the game, but then we hit the above issues, but again the pre-emptive may not have even existed, we only see the slot from clouds memory, after the truth is revealed we never see the materia, and due to graphical limitations there was no purple materia shown on the buster sword. I think that actually pre-emptive enabled him to sneak up to sephiroth, but only due to his crazed state, and actually this didn't even kill him. Sephiroth walks off after being attacked and then he attacks cloud with his masamune, which let's cloud tap into some of his untapped potential, because again he's had minimal to no exposure to mako yet, not until Hojo finds them after, and saves them in the Mako vats at Shinra Mansion.
You know, i did look at the materia and equipment of cloud and sephiroth out of curiosity way back. And saw how crazy sephiroth was all armed up…then cloud having just pre-emptive strike. I just sorta thought that he was a beginner 1st class character going on a mission with his once hero, and was given that materia as a supportive role considering how op sephiroth was. Never thought that the materia gave cloud a story driven reason to get the jump on sephiroth! Looking back at classic ff7 storytelling, it just got more impressive now!!
@@ZitzBracket bingo! I actually have that entire short idea for Cait sith scripted and written out 😂. Just haven't taken the time to record it together
I always just rolled with the fact is, Cloud walked right up to Sephiroth and shanked him BEFORE exposition. Zack instead decided to fight Sephiroth head to head. Given Sephiroth was both distracted at the time by Genova, and had assumed all potential foes were dealt with, it's not a stretch to say the Pre-emptive materia was the edge that gave cloud the definitive first strike.
Great theory, except Cloud wasn't carrying any materia, Zack was. Cloud uses said materia on Sephiroth just as described but only after picking up Zack's Buster Sword after finding Tifa and watching Zack get yeeted out of Jenova's chamber.
Imo, i feel like its more than just the pre emptive materia. Clouds will and determination gave him the strength to literally lift sephiroth up off off the ground while the masamune STILL stabbed through him, and throw him off of the reactor down into the depths of mako. Yes, i think that the pre emptive materia helped cloud, but it wasnt the only thing that got him to succeed imo. Thoughts? Thanks so much. 🤝
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@Vincent Valentine It's a fun ride, some of us enjoy it.
@Vincent Valentine I mean if you think about it. It makes sense. Not to mention if it was Zacks materia. It's still cloud wielding it on the buster sword in that scene
I thought this was another version of the game
je vais tester ^^
Is the mod the new textures and everything whatever version of the game your playing looks amazing I want it!
I always just assumed that it was because Sephiroth was infatuated with Jenova that he wasn't paying attention.
lol
Yeah that makes sense too.
Your right! it is the reason not due anything from materia.
Yeah I don't think the materia has anything to do with it.
It's a slight enhancement. Anything to give an edge, but a fun little detail
Sephiroth: "Ah yes, mother- wait why im entering combat?"
Sephiroth: why do i hear boss music
@@Dead_Hitori
Sephiroth: Why do I hear normal encounter music?
@@cs8712when you get out of a boss fight at 1hp and still need to find a save point
Why I hear chocobo music?
"Activating Combat Mode"
And in FFVII Rebirth, if you look at Cloud’s stats during the flashback, all of his stats are lower than Sephiroth’s except for one: Luck.
craps god
@@BltzZ the secret to beating sephiroth is in the golden saucer gambling and gladiator battles... makes sense
I haven't played rebirth yet......... I may wait for pc release. But it's difficult.
@@Apollo-ComputersThe game will drive you crazy. No joke. There are fantastic parts. You have been warned.
@@Apollo-Computersbro I was doing that, I gave in and bought one this past weekend. I spent 25 hours in the last 3 days on that game so far, not counting the time I used to read the walk through lol
Sephiroth: Mother, I've come to save you!
Cloud: Activating Combat Mode!
That guitar riff just played in my head 😂
@@nobodyspecial115 Which one?
@@ezrawyvern6795 the standard encounters in Crisis Core
real. @@nobodyspecial115
😂😂😂😂
According to crisis core sephi was also massively sleep deprived and was losing it mentally when this encounter happened.
And had just fought Zack at that moment.
It's pretty clear in FFVII that Sephiroth was going full bananas here as well.
@@pablotomasllodra4423 yeah I figured that boss fight was kind of a way to justify it since Zack and Sephiroth shouldn’t be that different in skill talent power etc at this point in time. Since it’s demonstrated that Genesis and Sephiroth are different in strength but not tremendously and Zack beats Genesis. He’s insane but fights Zack and beats him narrowly then gets distracted and gets stabbed by a grunt and falls into the life stream which is what really finishes him off. And then he basically comes back a god.
@@_Tizoc_ I think those subsequent titles shouldn't be given the same creedence, whether they are 'canon' or not. But, w/e, sure that's not how it works.
As someone who first played the game in '98, and then several times throughout the following decade (not to mention a couple times since)
... It seems so against the point and theme to suggest that Zack would be 'close' to Sephiroth.
If he stands as such in current canon, it is not due to original intent, but due to Square-Enix's greed and need to shill out spin-offs....
Like, The flashback.
Clouds false memory, he was superimposing himself onto Zack.
That fight before Nibelheim, and the whole way to the reactor.
'Clouds' Power level would reflect Zack's, right?
An itty baby compared to Sephiroth. Strong compared to normal people, no doubt.
But if it is now canon that Zack would be within punching distance of Sephiroth is absolutely ridiculous.
I think you're just struggling to understand what a SOLDIER is even in the original. Its the most elite group of warriors on the planet. Cloud was never one of them. We don't know many of them in the original work, just Zack and Sephiroth. THE only character positioned in the same space as Sephiroth in the original game is Zack. IDK though the second flashback with Zack is more robust but also miss-able maybe you never watched it. The main thing we know in the original is that Zack was strong and Cloud was weak and that Cloud through experimentation did eventually also become strong. But he had to be carted around by Zack in order to survive his ordeals (and once again by Tifa in the main timeline but I digress). Another thing we know is that Cloud was not yet strong at the time he sucker punched Sephiroth into the lifestream. One of Cloud's major character developments is his coming to terms with his dependence and inter-connectedness with other people. He's strong but a major source of his strength is relying on the strength of others. His stroic and independent cynical attitude belies a history of weakness and dependence on other people and accepting that makes him more powerful. The other thing is that Sephiroth in the original game becomes much more powerful after falling into the lifestream, the godlike version of him is a result of his death and resurrection. And that's why it takes a full team of adventurers to go up north and slay him. He was the most powerful SOLDIER but nothing compared to what comes later. It's never been an unreasonable assumption that Zack would be close to his power in a relative sense at that time in the story. @@PraxisAbraxis
I remember when this theory became popular several years ago. Then we started to think about how it was actually Zack who had the materia, but then that didn't matter because Zack had the materia equipped in the buster sword, which Cloud used when he attacked Sephiroth.
It was all really well thought out by the developers.
Precisely!
This game I played when I was 14. I am 41 now. Still my number 1 of all times
I have 2 times summon equipped with nights o t round. I can multiply this with mimic granted at a slight lower damage. I'll do an omnislash and 4xtimes Ultima on ya!
Meanwhile the devs are like "we just thought that it was a good time to debut the pre-emptive strike materia, but okay." 🤙
@@SCRaetz This tbh, I highly doubt they thought of that.
Preemptive strike served one purpose, it allowed Cloud to have a single attack during combat before Sephiroth annihilates all enemies with mastered magic. It was their way of comparing his attacks to Sephiroth’s which was a genius move to further illustrate the vast ocean of power between the party and Sephiroth at this point in the game.
based
Then to put further emphasis on his power, just after this they intend for you to get a chocobo to get past the Zolom only for you to immediately see Sephiroth kebab'd one of them.
It's definitely part of his power showcase.
@@Game2590 actually the majority of the game you're just chasing a Numbered remnant that because of the Jenova cells he stole from Shinra HQ was able to manifest as a Sephiroth copy. This is why when Cloud confronts him in the ship he doesn't know who Cloud is and asked what his number was.
Ahh but it wasn't cloud. It was Zack until the last point. We never saw cloud attack then.
@@garwynrosser8907 Yes, correct. But it was Cloud in the flashback having the preemptive strike, Zack never had that. I said Cloud to make it easier to understand.
It also helps that Seph was drinking his own kool-aid hard during this scene and you could have probably snuck up on him on the Highwind at that point
Can we get a mod to change Cloud’s model to the Highwind?
Hahaha, this...😂
🤣🤣🤣
😂😂😂
Well done, sir 😂
NEW FF14 Update! - ruclips.net/video/61aPIBI4ELI/видео.html
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I don't remember ff7 was played in portrait mode.
Hope you are proud of tgat butchering video 💩☠️
That mod seriously looks like shit. Those character models look atrocious in front of the original backgrounds, and the mixed pixel density is absurd. It looks 100x better at its original resolution with a CRT filter (ps1 version)
@@j_c_93 it's a free mod and not the only one for the PC version. You can choose whichever you want. That's also your opinion ❤️
Duuuudeee, mind blown. It never occurred to me that was why he had that. However, it was probably more than that since he faced down the wounded Sephiroth after. Cloud had talent, Zack saw it, and so did others. A big part of the story was him overcoming that mental block to reach his full potential.
that was fun god i love this game
He also lifted sephiroth after being impaled and chucked him into the reactor. This was pre Hojo experiments
This is the part I don't get and never have
@Game_and_Anime_Master how cloud lifts seph while impaled and chucks him and the sword over
@@jessensloan6692Cloud actually is physically as strong as Zack but never made it into 1st Class due to his mental health, not his physical! That’s also half the plot is showing you how unstable Cloud’s mentality is
@@ann._.skz21 he was mentally unstable throughout the game because of Hojos experiments. Not because he needed Prozac.
He literally wasn't as strong or as impressive as Zack. It wouldn't even be as interesting if he were. Stop trying to force cloud lifting sephiroth while selfie sticked BY THE SELFIE STICK. Why didn't seph just let go, for example
@@jessensloan6692he wasn't as strong but he was physically above normal humans. He fell into a cliff as a kid and only scraped his knees, plus the sephiroth situation. Cloud didn't get into soldier because of his mental state. Also seph was arrogant af at that time, vastly mentally unstable and injured heavily by cloud so makes sense letting go wasn't his first thought. He didn't think cloud was a threat.
There was a theory that since nibelheim is located in a place where mako is abundant. kids who grew up there are vinherently strong. like tifa and cloud.
U funny
I think there is validity to this. Especially considering child cloud and Tifa surviving a massive fall. The game does make it clear that Mako corrupts more often than it improves, so you'd be in a Spiderman situation, where the heroes are lucky, and almost everyone else that seeks power through science is unlucky.
This is especially true for naturally forming materia (knights of the round) and can also explain why cloud was a "failed" experiment.
@@garwynrosser8907 Knights of The Round ain't anywhere *near* Nibelheim tho
Or, he’s got MOXY
For all the useless complaint fan of the old games complaint, THIS is actually something that is missing in the latest actual link between gameplay and story, just like Rude will never attack Tifa in battle cause he has a crush for her.
If you played all of the games then you would know who actually killed sephiroth 🤦🏽♂️
Does that mean Reno won't attack Aeris?
@@5orgen51 No he has no sentiment toward Aeris he specifically don't attack Tifa cause he is in love for her.
@@5orgen51Tseng is the Turk who likes Aerith
tseng is the guardian of the last ancient...aerith😅perhaps
"The answer was right in front of us the whole time."
[shows game footage of Tifa running]
And then Cloud used "Throw enemy into the reactor" attack that he learned from the Plot Armor Materia
That's not what plot armor is or how you're supposed to use the term. Jesus why are people so bad at literary concepts
@@davemccombs Cloud wasn't like Zach I don't know why he had the strength to lift sephiroth off the ground when he was in the air suspended on a sword that was in his chest. Be wrong louder.
Dude that is plot armor
Nah that was his Limit Break coming out from the emotional extreme, something that all humans canonically have on Gaia but isn't always awakened, so another gameplay thingy integrated into the narrative.
It’s not plot armor clown it’s literally the plot centering around why hojo captured cloud as a test subject
sephiroth had his earpods in
Nice find!
It reminds me of how Cait Sith has "Manipulate" equipped both serving as a meaning for being a puppet manipulated by a human, and that they are acting as a Shinra Spy for the beginning portions of the game.
Haha that's one I have written down to make too!
Good one.
Yep...exactly. Makes me want to go back and look at every character when they joined the party. Because Yuffie came with Throw lol.
It also makes sense of how he was able to make himself a party member. 😅
This blew my mind lmao I never thought about that
One of the great examples of devs using gameplay to tell story 🔥
FF7 pioneered environmental storytelling and not Half-Life! 😱
To be fair cloud isn’t exactly just a normal guy either. When he was 9 he and tifa fell of a mountain. and while she almost died and was in a coma for 7 days.
My guy just got scraped knees. It isn’t exactly normal for kids to be that tough
He used her to brake his fall.
@@EnigamiNetshinobi we literally saw them land apart from each other
@@EnigamiNetshinobi I like that image, Cloud holding Tifa like a human shield as they plunge towards the floor
Was also stabbed through the stomach and managed to lift a man far taller than himself and toss him with the sword lodged in his belly over the barrier.
@@hootle4641 i think that was just him using his inner strength to avenge the girl he has loved since childhood and has been to afraid to show her
What version of the game are you playing? Those graphics are CRAZY
I think it just boils down to the fact that Sephiroth was super distracted and Cloud just rushed him. Didn’t give a monologue or a barbaric cry as he moved, just ran up and stabbed ol’ mate in the back with a GIANT FUCKING SWORD.
Always figured Cloud was born in Nibleheim, which had the first prototype reactor. Bets that the reactor leaked like a sieve, causing near-Soldier levels?
This is a cool explanation but it’s more logical to think Sephiroth was so preoccupied with Jenova that he just wasn’t aware or paying attention to what was going on around him at the time
Yeah, that materia is simply that, a cool detail. I doubt it's the canonical reason, as that materia doesn't exist in Crisis Core.
@@Xeno_Solarus yeh man totally. It’s not uncommon for people to be easily taken by surprise when they are preoccupied and their attention is elsewhere.
Why would it literally not be canon? Materia is canon in universe.
26 years later and we're still finding cool things!
Literally the first thing I did when playing the FF7 Rebirth demo was check for the preemptive strike materia and IT WASN’T THERE 😢 I’m gutted because this was such a good detail!
Well, technically, you know who would actually have it
FF7 has been one of my favorite games since I was a kid. I've played it until the in game timer maxed out, and that's just one save file. I've beaten it more times than I can count. I knew Young Cloud had pre-emptive strike and STILL never made the connection to him getting the jump on Sephiroth. Amazing. Thank you.
Ok but explain how sephiroth puts his sword through clouds abdomen, only for cloud to lift sephiroth off his feet, sword still inserted, and toss him off a ledge down into the reactor...
Tard rage
because Cloud wasn't weak or inadequate in the end. He was phenomenal.
Adrenaline
@@Windraesa this took place in the beginning
@@CreamerOfTheDairySquad yep.
I wanted to say that they should add this in Rebirth but they can't because of the Battle System. All they can do is change the Materia so if you attack an enemy from the back you deal more damage.
That's a good idea I wonder how they'll go about tackling it
@@BltzZ Would be cool if we hear Caleb Pierce during the flashback in place of Cloud.
@@MariusBoss11458 Damn, that would be crazy. Only the fans would notice it haha.
They might be already building up to it. Remember that the ability you can learn on the Buster Sword is Focused Thrust, and you can bet that they’ll make even more new materia to justify the back attack.
Well, they could add a back attack sequence, where the enemy is facing the other way and caught unaware for 5 seconds, making every hit deal bonus damage.
One thing to point out is that Cloud is not a normal human. Cloud is physically on the same level as a SOLDIER 1st Class.
The only reason Cloud never made it into SOLDIER despite passing the physical requirements was because of his low self estimate making him mentally weak and when a weak minded person is given JENOVA cells they are taken over by the cells.
So Cloud is naturally strong physical and that was why he was able to defeat Sephiroth.
SOLDIERs have super-human strength because they're infused with Jenova cells during the process of becoming a SOLDIER. Cloud is infused with Jenova cells and Mako after the Nibelheim incident, which is why he has super-human capabilities during FFVII and not Crisis Core. It's why everyone comments on his eyes and why everyone actually believes his lie.
Hes naturally stong but not naturally on the level of soldier that took the mako infusion albeit in this case jenova cells were used but that was after the Sephiroth incident
@@dennisgoatimer1079 Cloud was on par with a 1st Class in terms of strength and capabilities. JENOVA have never fully explained how they make you better, if they even really do.
From what I remember the only difference between a 1st and 2nd class is 1st class were injected with JENOVA cells.
After Genises defected so did many 1st classes which I believe resulted in many 3rd and 2nd classes being given JENOVA cells to replenish the force they lost.
I would also like to point out that Tifa, Red, Barret, Cid and Yuffie are all able to fight on par with regular 1st in game. We really have only been shown a handful of super human 1st which makes me think that Angela, Genises and Sephiroth are capable of doing what they can because they are genetic modifications while 1st like Zack are just more skillful.
So I do not belive JENOVA cells in themselves make you stronger, they simply improve what skills the person already has
@@andrewcarlton6196 That's simply false Cloud would easily beat Barret and Tifa in a fight without game restrictions yes Tifa and Barrett and the rest are strong but without game restrictions which makes them so they wouldn't be anywhere near Cloud's level. Not all first class got Jenova cells but only first class got Jenova cells. The rest of the cast would probably make 2nd class which would be Cloud's level before the Jenova cells. The best case study for this is Zack he got the same treatment as Cloud in Nibelheim but he managed to escape unscathed from it whilst Cloud got Mako Poisoning. As Zack being already Soldier having the Mako already in him that's been mutating him leading to the experiments failure whilst Cloud was too weak both mentally and physically (the guy was stabbed with Masamune for Christ sake) that he was left vegetative for quite some time which admittedly Cloud in that state lead to Zack's death but atleast he died with honour. Zack with only Mako really pushed it to its limits Cloud eventually surpassed him as he had Mako and Jenova cells in him which yes you need skill to properly use it but still it's there. It's basically anime so there's people strong without the Mako energy like the Turks and of course Tifa (Mako could've leaked from the Mako reactor in Nibelheim) and the gang but don't underestimate the power of Mako and Jenova Cells
@@dennisgoatimer1079Vincent
What version of Final Fantasy VII is being shown in this video? It looks better than the original but not as good as the remake.
I am also intrigued
To be more precise with this, Cloud himself didn't equip the materia on the Buster Sword, Zack did.
So Cloud basically gained the materia's effects when he grabbed the sword, but you also need to understand that since it's only one star, it was just a small chance, so Cloud basically got really lucky that Sephiroth was really distracted, otherwise, he would've been dead bfeore he even got close.
Genius, that AND I'd imagine his adrenaline was all the way up with everything happening around them PLUS his grief over his mom, Tifa and the town. I'd think that combo gave him strength
I mean, in universe it's literally called a Limit Break.
So simple yet so genius. Thank you sir
It's crazy!
This is not why pre-emptive materia was slotted to Zack/Cloud.
What version of final fantasy vii is this?? Remastered or remake it doesn't look at all like the ps1 version
Was wondering this too, it’s gotta be a hacked rom
What version of the game is this? It looks like a full remake with those character models
In the truck, on the way to Niebelheim, Cloud mentions how excited he is to use his new materia. Sephiroth knew, and granted his wish.
Hey wait...Didn't Cloud also tell Sephiroth that he got some new materia and he was excited to try it?
I think he did and that's funny!
Early foreshadowing!!
Well zack did
@@kiernanthurston857 True, true.
The only thing that really explains is something we already had an explanation for. Seph got ganked because he was too focused on Jenova. He was too arrogant and believed that nobody could touch him, let alone some little Shinra guard like Cloud. He had no reason to turn around.
The question isn't how Cloud snuck up on Sephiroth. It's how he managed to nearly kill him with a single stab, and then annihilate him further into the reactor. Zack, it is not only stronger than Cloud, but also had tons more experience and disposing of SOLDIERs was nearly killed by Sephiroth. Preemptive attack materia doesn't increase your strength. That was all Cloud.
The preemptive material was likely only added so that less enemies got a shot off on Cloud/Zack, making you feel less puny as Sephiroth killed everything.
The only reason cloud ever got that close and even struck sephiroth let him, sephiroth literally stated he would join with the Lifestream and use the planet to travel the universe as a god. He only let people think he died so could enact his plan without disruption.
Thats after he fall to the lifestream n learn more..
Sepiroth planing to get away with jenova head.. Not to join lifestream..
But cloud fight back n toss him back in the direction he once came n accidently sent him to live stream..
N sepiroth lose the jenova head that he purposely carried with him
So what you're saying is: the greatest lie Sephiroth ever told was that he died in Mt. Nibel?
Another similar easter egg occurs when you first meet Cait Sith. He basically forces you into letting him come with you. And he has the "Manipulate" materia equipped. Just two of the clever ways the writers used materia in the worldbuilding in very organic, understated ways.
Yes theoretically you could pass it off as such however it seems more likely that he was distracted by his madness for Jenova!
That is actually pretty slick.
What a cool little detail.
There are lots too that I can't wait to share you guys
I love when stories use their own gameplay within the lore
Poor phoenix down 😢 wake up galuf, Leo, aerith, tietra.
If we're using game logic for this theory, Cloud shouldn't have been able to kill and/or injure Sephiroth because his strength isn't high enough to do. So even if he critically struck Sephiroth with the back attack bonus with a limit break, he wouldn't do enough damage to hit 3200 and change, which is Sephiroth's current HP... unless Zack damaged Sephiroth critically during their battle
Ok you're going too literal with the health lol. We've seen aerith die from one back attack yet being able to tank 50 hits and cast a limit break to negate all damage. Items also are not canon, which is why there is a separate "Key Items" Menu. For stuff we see referenced and used in the story.
"Game logic" in the sense of how materia functions and works.
The Japanese make great stories and have little tid bits like this. I love it.
I love rediscovering old comments.
I have for some odd reason read comments in this thread for 3 hours now of dudes fighting over what the original authors meant/intended
1. It’s ok to suspend disbelief and enjoy a story as none are perfect
2 I’m amazed that nobody has suggested or brought up the ideation of the life stream/mako connecting with Cloud during this moment to empower him, as the energy was running full bore right below them
3. Why have I been reading hours of dudes fighting whilst on the toilet, I’m not even doing anything on here anymore 😂
Always thought it was more weird Cloud could lift a sword up while it was in his gut and throw him down a reactor. Seph was in complete disbelief. I still am
Cloud is a “sephiroth clone”. A true replica of Jenova. Which is why he’s the protagonist. Jenova invaded Gaia to seek refuge from the real threat. To be continued in FFVII remake Pt. 16
That's only after the fight with Sephiroth when he was powered up by pure jenova cells before then he was just a ordinary human going against a pure ancient admittedly one who already had to battle with Zack but still
He's not a clone, that's the big twist that gets debunked later. FF7 is like Rashomon: various flashbacks and people's own versions of events contradict each other and what you see in the middle is not how it actually was.
@@KasumiRINAwrong
Have you played any 7 content?… cloud isn’t a clone lol. He got experimented on with Genova dna or whatnot. But he isn’t a clone.
@@DOC_951 I always felt that they used the word "Clone" as a reference to trying to copy Sephiroth's power trough experimentation. Not actually a full on clone from birth.
“I challenged Sephiroth and lived. Why didn’t he kill me?”
Moments prior it is revealed that Cloud/Zack didn’t know how materia works.
🤯 🤯 🤯
If we would use game logic to explain this, then Cloud would preemptive strike Sephiroth and cause about 30 damage, then Sephiroth would just hit Cloud (even with a toothpick) and cause 5000+ damage, killing him instantly.
Except he stabs him. Aerith can't be revived.
Cutscenes and in game battles are different in scope
True, but remember Cloud still overpowered Sephiroth and threw him into the Lifestream with a Katana sticking in him. Preemptive strike does not allow that. Cloud is just built different, he just never knew it. Because his strength only comes out when his friends are threatened.
Another fun detail. That materia would be Zack's, not Cloud's, since you control Zack in the flashback before Cloud realises his mind is fucked.
Sephiroth is T-posing 😂
My mind was in fact not blown. Cloud also just snuck up on Sephiroth while he was distracted with his mommy issues. This scene was to show that Cloud had hidden depths to his strength, because he managed to kill Sephiroth while already being impaled.
I always assumed it was because Cloud was so pathetically weak, his presence was undetectable 😂
Lmao tried the man's whole life
technically it was Zack's but still makes sense since Cloud took Zack's sword which had the preemptive materia equipped to it.
People that dislike FF7 don't realise how deep and well put together the story of Shinra, the Cetra, Jenova, and the backstory of Avalanche truely is. Fate is a powerful thing.
Which game version of ff7 is this with the new graphics ?
Mods.
I just assumed Sephiroth was still brain hazey from his mommy's dream world to notice Cloud rush him.
Lol that's a great explanation for how he was able to get the drop on Sephiroth but it still doesn't explain how he survived a stabbing and managed to throw him into the mako.
Cloud wasn't regular. He was physically gifted. He couldn't join soldier due to his mental, not that he was physically lacking.
Plot Armor
I played FF7 when it came out, and several times since. I honestly never thought about that.
I always thought of Pre-Emptive materia as granting the user a Spider-Sense-like awareness of their surroundings, so that not only are they never caught off guard in a battlefield, but also quick enough and aware enough to get the drop on the enemies
Brilliant, man. Got me thinking, and I love that.
Always a joy to see new Final Fantasy content. Especially when it makes me wonder.
This is an old, old theory man. Still great, but it's been on the table since it came out in the 90's.
If I recall correctly it was discussed amongst other theories about the game in some playstation magazines etc.
@@soggybiscotti8425 Good to know. Of course it's a small detail but this was the first I'd heard of it. It's great when games incorporate gameplay elements into the story. Espers in FF6, Materia in FF7, and Eikons in FF16.
I don't know if this was intentional. If it was, holy crap that's genius level story telling.
How could it not be intentional? I mean, the materia is there. It’s not there by some random happenstance. They literally put it themselves. Someone had to code that specific materia to be equipped during the Nibelheim event. What, you think someone random coder just did it for shits and giggles and yet have it coincidentally line up with what happened in the reactor and works as the explanation for how Cloud could sneak up on the greatest Solider to ever walk the earth?😂 If so then I’ve got some ocean front property in Arizona I’d like to sell you.
It's not genius level storytelling, get over yourself. It's a cool detail. That's all it is. Like Cait Sith having the manipulate materia.
@@InTheMindOfDavid It is in no way the canonical reason. The actual reason is pretty simple. It was just a moment of weakness for Sephiroth as he was enamored by Jenova.
@@Xeno_Solarus It absolutely could be a canonical reason because Materia isn’t just a game mechanic for the players, it’s also heavily integrated into the everyday life of the world of Gia narratively. SOLDIERs actually use materia. In the Flashback a Kalm, Cloud even says “I can’t wait to try out that new Materia I got.” That right there establishes Materia as a narrative device, and then what do we see is in one of Cloud’s Materia slots? That Materia. That materia is there for a reason. Otherwise why is there? Why is it that specific materia, it could just as easily been Fire, or Cover, why not steal, or what about no materia? We don’t ever actually use it during that sequence. So it serves no purpose mechanically through gameplay so why have it there? It’s there for a narrative purpose. So that if you happen to actually look at Cloud’s equipment and see that Materia that then informs and for shadows the the outcome to scene in the Reactor. It’s the classic “show don’t tell” rule of storytelling. They’re showing us that Cloud had a specific materia equipped at that specific time allowing him to sneak up on Sephiroth. Thing are put in places for a reason, it’s not just random nonsense. That’s how storytelling works, especially visual storytelling. Which, obviously needs to be done especially during that era of game development. When it come to massive plot points in a story nothing is happenstance or doesn’t have a specific reason for being there. It’s all intentional. That moment is a PIVOTAL scene in FFVII. That scene was probably meticulously crafted due to just how important what happened in that reactor is to the whole story. They’re not gonna just put a materia there for shits and giggles and not mean for it explain how Cloud snuck up on Sephiroth. Was Sephiroth distracted swimming in his own ego and Edipus complex, yeah absolutely. But I don’t think it would prevent him from hearing cloud run up on him. He’s a Super-Soldier compared to other SOLDIERs, even among other 1st-Class SOLDIERs. He would have heard Cloud just like he had heard Zack before Cloud got there. Except Cloud had that materia equipped thus Sephiroth didn’t even know he was there. I’m not saying it’s “genius level” storytelling but it is visual storytelling and most certainly is the canonical explanation for how events went the way they did what in the Reactor. Otherwise it wouldn’t be there.
This is dope.
In FF8 you can get initiative junction. Start the fight with full atp needed it to fight marlboros. Useful if you can one shot the enemies.
He's another fact to augment this. In reality, Cloud is an infantryman and might not even have his own materia. In otherwords, it's not Cloud himself who set this up. It's Zack's Buster Sword having the materia in the slot there, meaning Zack helped more than just having the Buster Sword. And Cloud wouldn't have known what materia Zack would have unless he picked it up.
If you gonna discuss in game logic, Cloud will only deal not more than 14 damages even with preemptive 😂
By that logic a back attack should have only dealt 6K damage to my 9999 health aerith then lol
Cloud actually has insane physical stats, comparable to 1st Class soldier at the time. He just has a weak mental will and weak confidence. He doesn't remember the details of the flashback well including his own strength or Zacks. His memories are quite jumbled. After the incident and further experimentation by Hojo his physical combat abilities are even greater. He also has basically god-tier sword skills easily adapting Zack's combat style and improving upon it just from seeing it. It isn't until Mideel lifestream incident he finally overcomes his mental weakness. He is essentially a character who is grossly overpowered but totally hampered by an incredibly severe weakness.
Cloud was always a badass
Of course, and Cloud would be able to hit at least 3264 HP out of Sephiroth in just one attack, makes total sense
Critical hit....not super effective...Pokémon faints
Yeah and a Phoenix Down should've revived Aerith.
Ok It's not that literal lol. We've seen aerith take atleast 50 hits in the game yet one attack from behind wipes her out. While she has a limit break that can negate all incoming damage. Items themselves are also not canon. That's why there is a separate "Key Items" menu.
@@loregasmicevery time we saw Sephiroth outside of the Northern Crater it was a part of Jenova's body he was manipulating and calling to. He made them change form but it's all Jenova. Jenova is the natural and mortal enemy of the Ancients. When "Sephiroth" stabbed and killed Aerith, the sword was essentially a sharp Jenova tentacle. Jenova Cells were now inside her. She ded. She also needed to return to the Lifestream to try and purge Sephiroth who was contaminating it.
Also.... characters are only knocked out in battle. The enemy then kills them when everyone is knocked out. Phoenix Down doesn't cure death. It's more like a smelling salt. Just like Phoenix is recovery, not resurrection.
@Theinen84 Actually, Phoenix down is just a feather used as an offering to the Phoenix. The higher the quality of the feather, the greater the recovery. An actual feather from a Phoenix would literally resurrect someone, the ones in most shops are typically chocobo chick down, and just help someone regain consciousness.
I'm more baffled as to how he lifted sephiroth with the Murasame and yeeted him off the platform when he was still a normal human (pre-Jenova cells). That was wild 😅
Another thing I always noted as a child was Sephiroth had All materia attached to every element except Fire. For some reason he has every slot filled out but just so happens to not have Fire + All. I always assumed it was because he knew how dangerous it could be, but after losing it and deciding to kill everyone he definitely swapped an All over to his Fire and deleted the town.
😑 🌴 (face palm myself for missing this all those years)
Lmao
This did indeed blow mind. Well done
I never actually thought about that! 🤯
I always figured Cloud was a feral boar when pissed but also he was probably tapping into his limit break power. Also, Sephiroth is just absorbed by Jenova's presence, and would be arrogant about his superiority. Basically, he relaxed. Never relax around Cloud.
You could argue that after reading Hojo's research he knew he had to be killed out of anger with unfinished business to become a spirit that can't go back to the lifestream. Which is why he orchestrated Nibelheim. As others still had his cells he couldn't really be dead either. In this form he could still exist after the planet dies.
Funny how how in Loveless it actually covers this in the three paths ghosts can follow, haunting, posession and passing on.
Talk about attention to detail
I never realized this. Wow it makes sense
Ho... Lee... Shit!!
Crazy right? 👀
Thinking that the pre-emptive strike materia is useless, is the exact kind of mindset that would not catch such a detail in the first place.
Bugenhagen rides the only Float materia in the game
LMAO well when you put it like that
Haha, My brother shared this with me when I was like 8 watching him play it for the 20th time and I thought it was a really cool detail and I used to think materia changed all the cutscenes until I actually played the ps1 classic version on my PSPgo when I was like 15 and realized it didn't.
Pre emptive strike is basically sneak attack.
In ffxi, the thier is the thief class that has sneak attack, which is, as you guessed, pre emptive strike.
You also have to remember that, prior to Cloud attacking Sephiroth, he had a fierce battle with Zack. Then he went back to worshipping his "mother" Jenova. He was totally focused--engrossed in her. Also, Cloud didn't sneak up on him, he ran up to him to kill him. Taking a buster sword to the gut really wounded him. That's why Cloud was able to overpower and yeet him later on.
Sephiroth was powerful, but he wasn't nearly as powerful as the Nibleheim fake flashback at Kalm would suggest. That idea was in Cloud's head. Back then Cloud thought Sephiroth was an unbeatable hero. Think about it. In the battle scenes a dragon can't even hurt Sephiroth, but Cloud did.
Remember this came out before crisis core. So there was no depiction of a "fierce battle" between zack and sephiroth lol zack went in a got yeeted in less than 5 seconds.
In crisis core be like:
"Oh mom"
*ACTIVATING COMBAT MODE*
"Da fuq?"
*stab*
Well that’s a serious stretch, but they explain it better in the games beyond this. Cloud was merely an infantryman and sephiroth saw him as a lesser than. Beyond that it was also further explained by using his “inner power” (limit) in the following scene when he overpowered sephiroth and tossed him off the reactor walkway
That still doesnt explain how Cloud, a baby who can barely pass as a shinra grunt at the time, could even LIFT the Buster Sword - let alone Impale Sephiroth through the leg.
Btw. This might have been the only time Sephiroth has ever felt actual physical pain - it even made him lucid again long enough to decide to kill Jenova "to be just like you." (Cloud)
Apart from the following:
Pre-emptive gives no power up, simply first strike, the only conceivable explanation is that because sephiroth was still human (kind of...) at this point, a sword can kill him, which is still doubtful from his feats up to this point, especially as it doesn't even kill him.
Secondly, we check clouds inventory, but that's actually Zacks inventory, cloud being a normal shinra guard at that time would not have been given pre-emptive materia, the only possible explanation is that cloud took Zacks (Angeals) buster sword, and the pre-emptive was slot into the buster sword, which makes sense as it has 2 materia slots at the beginning of the game, but then we hit the above issues, but again the pre-emptive may not have even existed, we only see the slot from clouds memory, after the truth is revealed we never see the materia, and due to graphical limitations there was no purple materia shown on the buster sword.
I think that actually pre-emptive enabled him to sneak up to sephiroth, but only due to his crazed state, and actually this didn't even kill him. Sephiroth walks off after being attacked and then he attacks cloud with his masamune, which let's cloud tap into some of his untapped potential, because again he's had minimal to no exposure to mako yet, not until Hojo finds them after, and saves them in the Mako vats at Shinra Mansion.
What Version of FF7 is this? looks Awesome!
I wanna know too!
Wow! How did I miss this? I thought that Materia was just there to show how lame it was and Cloud was excited for nothing… boy was I wrong.
I always believed Cloud’s first limit break being “Braver” fully exemplified this action - and was first fueled by keeping his promise to Tifa.
"How did you sneak up on me with a giant sword!"
*Cloud jiggles a usually pointless materia in front of Sephiroth*
MY ONE WEAKNESS
You know, i did look at the materia and equipment of cloud and sephiroth out of curiosity way back. And saw how crazy sephiroth was all armed up…then cloud having just pre-emptive strike. I just sorta thought that he was a beginner 1st class character going on a mission with his once hero, and was given that materia as a supportive role considering how op sephiroth was. Never thought that the materia gave cloud a story driven reason to get the jump on sephiroth! Looking back at classic ff7 storytelling, it just got more impressive now!!
Or how Cait Sith starts with the Manipulate materia
@@ZitzBracket bingo! I actually have that entire short idea for Cait sith scripted and written out 😂. Just haven't taken the time to record it together
where download that remastered verion?
I always just rolled with the fact is, Cloud walked right up to Sephiroth and shanked him BEFORE exposition. Zack instead decided to fight Sephiroth head to head.
Given Sephiroth was both distracted at the time by Genova, and had assumed all potential foes were dealt with, it's not a stretch to say the Pre-emptive materia was the edge that gave cloud the definitive first strike.
Great theory, except Cloud wasn't carrying any materia, Zack was. Cloud uses said materia on Sephiroth just as described but only after picking up Zack's Buster Sword after finding Tifa and watching Zack get yeeted out of Jenova's chamber.
Lol i always thought it was neat little story foreshadowing for the players who have already played the game.
I have been playing FF7 over and over since it came out when I was a child and I never knew this. Good job!
Imo, i feel like its more than just the pre emptive materia. Clouds will and determination gave him the strength to literally lift sephiroth up off off the ground while the masamune STILL stabbed through him, and throw him off of the reactor down into the depths of mako.
Yes, i think that the pre emptive materia helped cloud, but it wasnt the only thing that got him to succeed imo.
Thoughts?
Thanks so much. 🤝