The swords bard with that helmet and ring combo is so OP! Can I suggest a few potential improvements here though? - 2 fighter instead of 3 ranger won’t really lose you anything in terms of martial damage output because of action surge, and you’ll get CON save proficiency to maintain concentration on spells. Most importantly, it lets you get magical secrets at bard 10 so you can grab command (and something like counterspell). That version of command will use your CHA modifier for the save instead of your much weaker WIS modifier from the cleric feat. Then you can use that feat you saved to boost a stat or grab alert. - Unless you’re working 3 levels of thief into the build for the second bonus action, I prefer a longbow like the dead shot (which has damage, accuracy, range and crit advantages over hand crossbows). Your bonus action is primarily for the enchantment/illusion casts. - 14 DEX is really low for an archer build, especially with sharpshooter. Why not use the gloves of dexterity instead of the strength gauntlets, which are kinda wasted on this build? You can get them in Act 1, and you’ll have a +3 to attack rolls, a +2 to damage and a +2 to AC compared to your current stats. You can then dump DEX and put the extra points into other stats to improve your skills and saving throws. - Lastly, spare points are usually better in WIS than INT, since WIS saves are way more important. It will also boost your perception and insight checks.
@ProbeAway great suggestions. The main reason I went ranger over fighter is having the extra initiative and the extra attack round one. But I guess action surge kinda accomplishes the same thing. I do like the con save proficiency, but we would have to find another way to get fog cloud. Fog cloud is SO OP on this build. Magical secrets is nice which allows you to use cha over wis. I noticed though once you get the arcane acuity stacks going it doesn't really matter, you get to 100% spell dc check, but in those situations where you need to command turn 1 or 2 I would come in handy. I really wish we could work thief into the build because the extra bonus action is really nice. I think the main reason is I prefer handcrossbows over long bow is being able to attack with our bonus action. With Elixirs of Bloodlust and Potions of Speed you hardly notice not having the extra bonus action. Also Mind Sanctuary helps with this too. As far as the gloves go I was using the gloves of archery, yeah the gloves of strength is kinda wasted, but yeah dumping dex and using the gloves of dex is probably just better. I also think the main reason I went ranger over fighter was really just thematic. The fantasy I had in my head was like an Aragorn-esque character. For wis and int, I honestly think this was just an oversight. I might try your suggestions. Any suggestion on how to get fog cloud worked in with this setup? Also any suggestions on a bow to use?
@@Grollm yeah, I can see that theme being pretty cool! Hmmm, I hadn't really thought about fog cloud because it takes concentration. Once I got the band of the mystic scoundrel I was just casting a concentration spell like hypnotic pattern or confusion with my bonus action at the end of my first turn, so I would have had to drop that to use fog cloud. You could equip the hammergrim amulet from Act 2, which lets you cast fog cloud at will without expending a spell slot. I used my neck slot for the harper amulet though, since the shield spell does much the same job in a pinch (plus it's a reaction). With 18 DEX, the armour of agility, the cloak of protection and a shield in your offhand, you already have 24 AC so you should rarely get targeted, let alone hit!
@@ProbeAway that's true. Thanks for taking the time to comment and watch. I've never played a swords bard in 5e. Is it as OP as in bg3? I know a big part of why Bards are so good in bg3 is because of itemization.
@@Grollm I haven't got much experience with DnD unfortunately! Something I want to get into at some point. I've heard that bards are good in 5e, but slashing flourish isn't broken like it is in BG3. They really overtuned it!
@ProbeAway there are some good changes that bg3 made over 5e. For instance pact weapon doesn't work the same way for warlock in 5e. You need to go hexblade warlock to apply your cha to your weapon attacks, but that's what basically everyone did so it was nice to just have that built in. Also druids are WAY better in bg3 than 5e. Wildshapes kinda sucks in 5e 😟 Also, Rangers are garbage tier in 5e. The running joke is if you want to play a bow character just play a bow fighter over ranger 😅
Thank you so much for showing this build! Me and two other friends are going for all charisma based classes run. Ive been looking for a bard setup for a bit!
Charisma classes are honestly the most powerful casters in the game meta magic is fantastic bards can legit convince people to commit sewerslide warlock is so good too you should have a great time
I like the idea of working in 3 levels of assassin for guaranteed first round crits, but not getting archery fighting style and con proficiency might not be good trade off. Once you get the mystic band, I would go to a long bow and save bonus actions for hold person/monster spells. Titan bow with those strength gloves is good combo.
Another thing I was toying around with was taking 1 level of paladin to get command, but then you lose a second feat and you lose hold monster. The more I mess around with this build, the more I think you definitely WANT command. The Steel Watcher Factory I played last night felt awful without Command. So I think either work 1 level of paladin in or take magic initiate cleric.
Alert is nice if you can afford it. These builds are cool and all, but when we look at items in a vacuum to the other 3 characters in your party, sometimes items and feats just have to compromise. Because of how variable things can be depending on which items aren't available because another character uses them. I think what is more important than having highest initiative, is to have all 4 characters with comparable initiative. The issue with Alert feat is, is that this can push one of you party members out of the same action window as your other characters, which can really suck especially if you have a composition that prones enemies that have higher initiative than the rest of your group. An example of this is where a Barbarian can have +6 initiative with 16 dex, giving a minimum of 7 initiative. 7 is usually the MAX initiative that you can expect from an NPC. 17+ dex is atypical and tbh most will max out at 6 initiative. This ended up being a problem for my Karlach barbarian because she is a thrower and would often have initiative far out ahead of the pack especially with Alert feat. When you throw enemies and prone them, they won't stay down they will get back up when their turn comes, so what was more important than my barbarian going FIRST, is for her to have the shared initiative window with the 3 other party members, who can't get the monstrous 10+ initiative of a barbarian. I want her to throw, and for my party members to reap the benefits of her proning. So that they can all group-prone-bone together. Very very often with the +11 initiative, it was Karlach, some boss, followed by the rest of the party, then the trash mobs. This resulted in Karlach proning the boss only for the boss to get back up before the rest of the party could prone-bone them.
might be useful to stack up the helmet's buff with the crossbows' scorch ray just before a fight on a barrel or something so you can start with a high chance enchantment spell in the first round.
I dont think it works sadly. Helmet of Arcane Acuity says weapon attack. You are using the weapon to cast the spell so maybe it counts? I have a feeling it won't work though sadly 😪
@@Grollm Yes, pretty much. when you pick it at level 3 you get...Fancy Footwork When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you learn how to land a strike and then slip away without reprisal. During your turn, if you make a melee attack against a creature, that creature can't make opportunity attacks against you for the rest of your turn. Rakish Audacity Starting at 3rd level, your confidence propels you into battle. You can give yourself a bonus to your initiative rolls equal to your Charisma modifier. You also gain an additional way to use your Sneak Attack; you don't need advantage on the attack roll to use your Sneak Attack against a creature if you are within 5 feet of it, no other creatures are within 5 feet of you, and you don't have disadvantage on the attack roll. All the other rules for Sneak Attack still apply to you. Its the mod in the built in mod manager. You can get multiple sneak attacks per turn and do not need to always be in stealth
@solmarshal hmm, I think it would work pretty well. You get audacity, which would replace dread ambusher + to initiative. The only thing is you miss out on getting the Dread ambusher attack. So you basically lose an attack on your first turn. You would also need to be in melee more, so you would need to have decent con. You probably would need to replace risky ring since being always at ranged with this build mitigates the downside to risky ring. I think it could definitely work, just need to make a few changes. Let me know how it goes!
Band of the Mystic Scoundrel. It let's you cast enchantment or illusion spell as a bonus action if you've hit with a weapon this turn. Where to find it is covered at the 11:31 mark of the video.
@TheWrongNote oh I'm sorry for the confusion, its not 2 risky rings. It's Band of the Mystic Scoundrel and Risky Ring. You get the band from winning the spin game with the Djinn in act 3. I go over how to get it and find it towards the end of the video.
@@Grollm Ah I probably should've finished before I asked, I skipped back to the level-up section while I made my character haha. Thanks for clarifying, really appreciate it, looking forward to playing the build :D
@TheWrongNote it's so fun! I'm working on some more bg3 builds. I've been slightly distracted with Dragon Age Veilguard these past weeks, but I'm gonna start putting more out next week.
The swords bard with that helmet and ring combo is so OP!
Can I suggest a few potential improvements here though?
- 2 fighter instead of 3 ranger won’t really lose you anything in terms of martial damage output because of action surge, and you’ll get CON save proficiency to maintain concentration on spells. Most importantly, it lets you get magical secrets at bard 10 so you can grab command (and something like counterspell). That version of command will use your CHA modifier for the save instead of your much weaker WIS modifier from the cleric feat. Then you can use that feat you saved to boost a stat or grab alert.
- Unless you’re working 3 levels of thief into the build for the second bonus action, I prefer a longbow like the dead shot (which has damage, accuracy, range and crit advantages over hand crossbows). Your bonus action is primarily for the enchantment/illusion casts.
- 14 DEX is really low for an archer build, especially with sharpshooter. Why not use the gloves of dexterity instead of the strength gauntlets, which are kinda wasted on this build? You can get them in Act 1, and you’ll have a +3 to attack rolls, a +2 to damage and a +2 to AC compared to your current stats. You can then dump DEX and put the extra points into other stats to improve your skills and saving throws.
- Lastly, spare points are usually better in WIS than INT, since WIS saves are way more important. It will also boost your perception and insight checks.
@ProbeAway great suggestions. The main reason I went ranger over fighter is having the extra initiative and the extra attack round one. But I guess action surge kinda accomplishes the same thing. I do like the con save proficiency, but we would have to find another way to get fog cloud. Fog cloud is SO OP on this build. Magical secrets is nice which allows you to use cha over wis. I noticed though once you get the arcane acuity stacks going it doesn't really matter, you get to 100% spell dc check, but in those situations where you need to command turn 1 or 2 I would come in handy. I really wish we could work thief into the build because the extra bonus action is really nice.
I think the main reason is I prefer handcrossbows over long bow is being able to attack with our bonus action.
With Elixirs of Bloodlust and Potions of Speed you hardly notice not having the extra bonus action. Also Mind Sanctuary helps with this too.
As far as the gloves go I was using the gloves of archery, yeah the gloves of strength is kinda wasted, but yeah dumping dex and using the gloves of dex is probably just better.
I also think the main reason I went ranger over fighter was really just thematic. The fantasy I had in my head was like an Aragorn-esque character.
For wis and int, I honestly think this was just an oversight.
I might try your suggestions. Any suggestion on how to get fog cloud worked in with this setup? Also any suggestions on a bow to use?
@@Grollm yeah, I can see that theme being pretty cool!
Hmmm, I hadn't really thought about fog cloud because it takes concentration. Once I got the band of the mystic scoundrel I was just casting a concentration spell like hypnotic pattern or confusion with my bonus action at the end of my first turn, so I would have had to drop that to use fog cloud.
You could equip the hammergrim amulet from Act 2, which lets you cast fog cloud at will without expending a spell slot. I used my neck slot for the harper amulet though, since the shield spell does much the same job in a pinch (plus it's a reaction). With 18 DEX, the armour of agility, the cloak of protection and a shield in your offhand, you already have 24 AC so you should rarely get targeted, let alone hit!
@@ProbeAway that's true. Thanks for taking the time to comment and watch. I've never played a swords bard in 5e. Is it as OP as in bg3? I know a big part of why Bards are so good in bg3 is because of itemization.
@@Grollm I haven't got much experience with DnD unfortunately! Something I want to get into at some point. I've heard that bards are good in 5e, but slashing flourish isn't broken like it is in BG3. They really overtuned it!
@ProbeAway there are some good changes that bg3 made over 5e. For instance pact weapon doesn't work the same way for warlock in 5e. You need to go hexblade warlock to apply your cha to your weapon attacks, but that's what basically everyone did so it was nice to just have that built in. Also druids are WAY better in bg3 than 5e. Wildshapes kinda sucks in 5e 😟
Also, Rangers are garbage tier in 5e. The running joke is if you want to play a bow character just play a bow fighter over ranger 😅
Thank you so much for showing this build! Me and two other friends are going for all charisma based classes run. Ive been looking for a bard setup for a bit!
@heavenscloud1047 no problem man! Hope you enjoy!
Charisma classes are honestly the most powerful casters in the game meta magic is fantastic bards can legit convince people to commit sewerslide warlock is so good too you should have a great time
You can ask Withers for a hireling bard and that fella comes with a hand crossbow :-)
I like the idea of working in 3 levels of assassin for guaranteed first round crits, but not getting archery fighting style and con proficiency might not be good trade off. Once you get the mystic band, I would go to a long bow and save bonus actions for hold person/monster spells. Titan bow with those strength gloves is good combo.
Another thing I was toying around with was taking 1 level of paladin to get command, but then you lose a second feat and you lose hold monster. The more I mess around with this build, the more I think you definitely WANT command. The Steel Watcher Factory I played last night felt awful without Command. So I think either work 1 level of paladin in or take magic initiate cleric.
so far im having fun with this build 😊
@@_delirious Glad you're enjoying it!
Alert is nice if you can afford it. These builds are cool and all, but when we look at items in a vacuum to the other 3 characters in your party, sometimes items and feats just have to compromise.
Because of how variable things can be depending on which items aren't available because another character uses them. I think what is more important than having highest initiative, is to have all 4 characters with comparable initiative.
The issue with Alert feat is, is that this can push one of you party members out of the same action window as your other characters, which can really suck especially if you have a composition that prones enemies that have higher initiative than the rest of your group.
An example of this is where a Barbarian can have +6 initiative with 16 dex, giving a minimum of 7 initiative. 7 is usually the MAX initiative that you can expect from an NPC. 17+ dex is atypical and tbh most will max out at 6 initiative.
This ended up being a problem for my Karlach barbarian because she is a thrower and would often have initiative far out ahead of the pack especially with Alert feat. When you throw enemies and prone them, they won't stay down they will get back up when their turn comes, so what was more important than my barbarian going FIRST, is for her to have the shared initiative window with the 3 other party members, who can't get the monstrous 10+ initiative of a barbarian. I want her to throw, and for my party members to reap the benefits of her proning. So that they can all group-prone-bone together.
Very very often with the +11 initiative, it was Karlach, some boss, followed by the rest of the party, then the trash mobs. This resulted in Karlach proning the boss only for the boss to get back up before the rest of the party could prone-bone them.
@@DummyFace123 alert is amazing. Love that feat
Wisdom saving throws are used a LOT. Intelligence is pretty much only good for Gale. So just use Gale in your party when Int. checks are needed.
might be useful to stack up the helmet's buff with the crossbows' scorch ray just before a fight on a barrel or something so you can start with a high chance enchantment spell in the first round.
@mav0632 that's really smart I never thought about doing that!
I dont think it works sadly. Helmet of Arcane Acuity says weapon attack. You are using the weapon to cast the spell so maybe it counts? I have a feeling it won't work though sadly 😪
@@Grollm that's true, yes.. my bad.
I made a Sword Bard 6, Ranger 3 (Gloom). Rouge 3 (Assassin). Nasty. Can pretty much solo the game.
@YamatoForever one of my favorite builds to play!
Thinking of trying this; but replacing Gloomstalker with Rogue subclass mod, Swashbuckler.
@solmarshal not familiar with the mod. Does it just add everything that a swashbuckler does in d&d?
@@Grollm Yes, pretty much. when you pick it at level 3 you get...Fancy Footwork
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you learn how to land a strike and then slip away without reprisal. During your turn, if you make a melee attack against a creature, that creature can't make opportunity attacks against you for the rest of your turn.
Rakish Audacity
Starting at 3rd level, your confidence propels you into battle. You can give yourself a bonus to your initiative rolls equal to your Charisma modifier.
You also gain an additional way to use your Sneak Attack; you don't need advantage on the attack roll to use your Sneak Attack against a creature if you are within 5 feet of it, no other creatures are within 5 feet of you, and you don't have disadvantage on the attack roll. All the other rules for Sneak Attack still apply to you.
Its the mod in the built in mod manager.
You can get multiple sneak attacks per turn and do not need to always be in stealth
@solmarshal hmm, I think it would work pretty well. You get audacity, which would replace dread ambusher + to initiative. The only thing is you miss out on getting the Dread ambusher attack. So you basically lose an attack on your first turn. You would also need to be in melee more, so you would need to have decent con. You probably would need to replace risky ring since being always at ranged with this build mitigates the downside to risky ring. I think it could definitely work, just need to make a few changes. Let me know how it goes!
mix this with theifzerker tb throw and you seriously will be killing bosses in like 1 round
Whats the 2nd ring? Risky Ring and what else?
Band of the Mystic Scoundrel. It let's you cast enchantment or illusion spell as a bonus action if you've hit with a weapon this turn. Where to find it is covered at the 11:31 mark of the video.
What helmet and 2nd ring did you run here?
@@TheWrongNote Helmet of Arcane Acuity and Risky Ring.
@Grollm Is there a benefit to stacking 2 risky rings? Or is it just that there's not really any other good rings?
Thanks for the reply :)
@TheWrongNote oh I'm sorry for the confusion, its not 2 risky rings. It's Band of the Mystic Scoundrel and Risky Ring. You get the band from winning the spin game with the Djinn in act 3. I go over how to get it and find it towards the end of the video.
@@Grollm Ah I probably should've finished before I asked, I skipped back to the level-up section while I made my character haha. Thanks for clarifying, really appreciate it, looking forward to playing the build :D
@TheWrongNote it's so fun! I'm working on some more bg3 builds. I've been slightly distracted with Dragon Age Veilguard these past weeks, but I'm gonna start putting more out next week.
Oh, i thought you were going to hit them over the head with a violin...;)
@@RFA_The-DuDe haha improvised weapon attack! 🎻💥🤕😅