Learn everything about the Behringer 2600 here: ruclips.net/p/PLlJvIUzIwQ79naxyNxNQnNEj_KcmHp5D5 Watch my Behringer UB-Xa Videos: ruclips.net/p/PLlJvIUzIwQ78nNoAC6z-mUfCyTIRCI8Pi&si=2-eVo7XmoT_5WA9N Get started with the Behringer 2500 Eurorack System: ruclips.net/p/PLlJvIUzIwQ7-c3uoCt82TRo2a_IZmYjCJ ARP 2600 and Behringer 2600 Videos: ruclips.net/p/PLlJvIUzIwQ7-i8ycRAQNnYcPmADP9quhE Best regards, Ralph
I'm a Boomer who could never afford a synth. Now I've surrounded myself with inexpensive modern synths and clones, including a B2600. Your videos have helped a lot!
Cool! So clones can also help some people to pursue their dreams which they couldn't afford to pursue before...Wishing you lots of fun on your musical journey. Thanks for watching my content.
❤totally, the same for me, I had brought my old synths at a time the were let aside. 80 euros the Juno 6, 28 euros the Roland SH2000, 150 euros a Korg M1... next was a dream those clones are making tue!
Hi Ralph, YES...I agree wholeheartedly! I used to have a plethora of vintage synths including several Oberheim OBXa's, OBSx, Arp/Rhodes Chroma and Chroma expander, the complete Korg MS series, and various other Moog, Roland, Korg, and Yamaha synths, (even a Pi Technos Axcel)...and sold them all! Like you, I found that the cost even back then was getting too expensive to maintain these units. These days I have a wonderful studio full of hardware synths (mainly from Behringer) and I'm quite happy with all of this modern gear. :) It allows me the ability to keep composing and producing my albums. Keep up the great videos, Ralph...it's a joy to watch them!
Thank you for your kind words! The ARP/Rhodes Chroma plus Expander I saw only once in the flesh. At the Frankfurt music show in 1982. None of my buddies had one. Wishing you a great time recording your albums and many thanks for watching my content. Cheers, Ralph
Totally agreed, Ralph. I would never buy a Prophet 5 Rev 3, let alone Rev 1/2, but when Dave Smith released the Rev 4, I went for it. MIDI, velocity sensitivity, aftertouch, and - last but not least - reliability is what I need on a great synth. Even greater: the OB-X8, additionally combining three of the vintage behemoths in one instrument. I also ❤ my BARP 2600. Thanks to your tutorials I can even operate it, and it sounds so fantastic. The only company causing sadness deep in my heart is Roland. No reissue of the Jupiter-8/-6, no JX-8P, ZenCore crap instead. I love the sound of the vintage Rolands so much!
Thanks for watching my 2600 tutorials. Glad they helped you on your journey. Before the 2600 clones I was using the Arturia Keystep as a Midi/USB/CV interface to integrate my original ARP2600 into my contemporary studio setup. Now it's easy :-) Thanks for watching and commenting, Greetings, Ralph
Your thoughts and comments, definitely align with my own. I am also Gen X, and have grown to appreciate not only vintage clones, but also software synths that clone the vintage gear. There is a lot of emotional attachment and nostalgia, with the original synths, but as you said, along with those feelings comes a commitment to keep them going, which can be painfully expensive. Today’s vintage synths clones, while causing an uproar with some elitist, are the next step into the future. Everyone has access to sounds, that once upon a time, only the rich could afford. Do I think there is a moral issue, from a company bringing back synths that haven’t been produced in decades, and bringing them back with features the originals never had? Nope, sure don’t. Pac-Man was once an arcade only game to us Gen-Xers, but then it came to consoles, handhelds, MAME, PC’s, and it is even on my phone. I love the original arcade version, but I cannot afford it, and I’m super happy using MAME. Purists may hate it, but technology is still advancing, and if we can enjoy modern, reliable, inexpensive versions of our past technology, then, in Captain Picards words, engage!
Thanks! I love it when other Gen-Xers are sharing their thoughts. Reading your comment brought back a funny memory. Prior to 1982 Christmas a school buddy of mine was asking his Dad to get the Tron Arcade game as a Xmas gift. I told my buddy that it was too expensive. His dad could buy a second hand car for that kind of money. Nevertheless my buddy was very disappointed when he didn't get the Tron Arcade game for Xmas. BTW, as Gen-Xers we have learned that change is inevitable regardless what some elitist might proclaim... ;-)
A synth tech once told me that vintage synths are vastly easier to repair due to their through hole components, as opposed to the current synths’ surface mount. I’m cynical of the durability of modern synths, like any modern manufactured items, where profit margins and mass production eat into quality control. I have a few synths from the 70s-90s that are still going strong (serviced when needed), and a couple of new ones that have irreparably malfunctioned under warranty. For me, the cost factor, as well as availability are the main drivers for purchasing clones.
Thanks for sharing your insights! Also vintage cars are easier to repair. That's what some friends who are mechanics told me. But getting the right spare parts and constant maintenance is similiar to the vintage synth world ;-) Greetings, Ralph
If it wasn't for Behringer, I would have never had a MiniMoog… way to pricy. Music is just a hobby for me. So making a clone at 300€ rather than 2000€, I'm a happy man. As for the 2600, I love it and at 555€, it's a bargain. even a steal comparing to a rare ARP 2600. I can't even imagine the price. Now I'm just waiting for the holy grail, the VCS3. vielen Dank schön for the video. Un grand merci 🙂
Hallo Ralph, ein sehr später GenXer hier (1980) Ich mag deine Videos über die 2600er! Ich besitze seit kurzem den Korg ARP2600M und er ist fantastisch. Ich besitze ihn vor allem, weil für mich persönlich der 2600er "DER" Synthesizer Klassiker ist. Für viele ist es ja der MiniMoog, der MS-20 oder der Juno-60. Für mich geht damit tatsächlich ein Lebenstraum in Erfüllung. Ich hab zwar auch ein gut bestücktes Eurorack und ein paar andere Hardware Synths, aber der ARP2600 hat einen ganz besonderen Platz in meinem Herzen.
I have a vintage MiniMoog from 1974 that rapidly goes out of calibration. I'm considering the Behringer model D, I wonder if that's more stable. The Behringer 2600 I just received seems to be a solid unit. Your videos on that subject are extremely helpful.
I’m also GenX and have had many vintage synths over the years. I have a fascination with the 80’ hybrids like Korg DW8000 and Ensoniq ESQ-80. I’ve had jupiters and Juno’s and moogs….and all of them had service issues. I finally just got fed up with it and, with a few exceptions, let it all go. It felt like the gear was owning me and not the other way around. I’m much happier with the clones and virtual instruments I use now. The sound good enough to my old burned out ears. And to those who say that the clones are cheap and won’t be around 50 years from now….well, neither will I do that’s fine with me.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I can totally relate to your reasons. At a certain age having a pleasurable time is just more important... ;-) Cheers, Ralph
The younger generation will never know how it felt almost impossible to poses any of these modern marvels back then especially if you leaved outside of US. These vintage classics belong in the hands of ones who earned them over time, know basic electronics to troubleshoot or in the museums. The clones is the ultimate compromise for newer generations owning hardware vs. Vsts.
That's the reason why I keep the vintage stuff that I already own....but as a GenerationX person time is becoming more valuable by the day and we have to make our own personal choices what we are using our time for....
I ignore the people who whine about clones - especially the ones who possess VSTs of those same synths! 😂 My vintage monosynth I bought in 1985 and built from a kit. I started refurbishing it but the Neutron came out and although not a clone had a very similar sound to mine and the refurb has been stuck on my to-do list ever since! I have no wish to add to that list. The only other vintage synths I own are a DX27, TX7, DX7 IID, and E-mu Proteus/1. The latter I only keep to as a harsh reminder to never settle for less because I should have kept saving for the vastly superior Roland U-220 that I really wanted 😢
My connection to vintage synths is primarily due to interest in how they work ('70's-'80's electronics). I got into electronics for a career in the '80's because of wanting to understand this stuff. Of course playing them is fun too. Repairing them isn't difficult for me, but for most people I don't recommend buying vintage unless you like DIY, or you have a trustworthy repair person you trust and able to spend a little bit of money every now and then. Most repairs are pretty easy and not horribly expensive. Otherwise, I much prefer having a modern re-release of the original. Far less likely to have issues.
Thank you! I am glad that you are sharing your insights from the DIY perspective. Hope many viewers will read your comment as well. Thanks for watching and commenting. Greetings, Ralph
Well said! Anyone claiming superiority and exclusivity of "vintage" synths is doing nothing short of gatekeeping. To not embrace the wealth of synth options today and a range of prices accessible to everyone is just ridiculous.
I have an original Yamaha Sy22 which I have had since 1990. It still sounds wonderful, however bits are failing - mainly the buttons. It needs a service. You cant buy the memory cards any more either. I have a Blue marvin, and love it. From what I understand of the original, it could be temperamental on occasions. I probably would never have bought an original 2600 due to the price (if the clones weren't available) so my experience with the 2600 is purely due to it being a clone. I also have a Roland s-1, a modern digital recreation of the famous sh-101. It sounds great, and I have a lot of fun with it. If it means I can play a "vintage" synth to get *that* sound, then I will get a clone. I can't wait for Behringer's enigma to be released (buchla clone). I can't afford an original, or even the new buchla.
Thank you for sharing your experience with your vintage synths. I mentioned this already in another comment, my original ARP 2600 was also only really stable within 2,5 octaves. Going out of this range required some retuning. With the B2600 I can go beyond four octaves :-) Many thanks for watching! Greetings, Ralph
Modern components. Like paired transistors in dual packages, C0G capacitors, opamps which are having low dc offsets and more linear responses, better sliders and potentiometers are making "clones" better that originals. Barp2600 gray and blue are great. Pro800 are amazing. Bolina is perfect. Kobol is as dynamic as the original.
Hallo Ralph, sehr gut gesprochen und entspricht genau meiner Sicht auf die Dinge! Ich freue mich auf weitere Videos von Dir! Bin ich von der Generation Nine, wenn ich älter bin als Du? 😀 Viele Grüße! Frank
Hallo Frank, dann müsstest du der Boomer Generation angehören ;-) Für beide Generationen wird die Zeit immer kostbarer. Vielen Dank fürs Anschauen, Ralph
People tend to idealize those classic vintage synths. Take the Jupiter 8 for example. In the late 80s my guitar teacher had a Jupiter 8 sitting in the corner of his studio under a pile of random stuff. At the time I was playing guitar but I really like synthesizers but was way too poor to buy even a cheap synth like a Juno 106 which at the time wasn’t even considered a professional instrument. My guitar teacher wasn’t using the Jupiter 8 because it was a out of tune. Each week I was bugging him to have it tuned and after a few weeks he had it serviced. We played it and it was fantastic but the next week when we tried to play the backing track we came up with the week prior, it was completely out of tune. So even when they were relatively new, those synths were nowhere near as reliable as today’s synths. I understand the value and historical significance of those synths but to actually use them in a music production environment you need a lot of patience and deep pockets to keep them in working condition. And don’t even think of using them in a live environment, it’s a recipe for disaster. So for most people, the closest thing they can get to experiencing something similar to playing those vintage instruments is to play a Behringer clone and I think it’s a good thing.
Thanks for this detailed comment sharing your experience with the Jupiter 8. My original ARP 2600 was also only really stable within 2,5 octaves. Going out of this range required some retuning. Many thanks for watching and commenting. Cheers, Ralph
I don't have any vintage synths. I could never afford them though I did own a Jen SX1000 and SX2000. Loved them both I have to say. Old synths need lots of love and care and money, so buying clones makes perfect sense 😊
Hi Ralph, I really enjoyed this video, being a fellow Gen X with similar interests to you, the video really resonated with me. I have decided not to buy any more vintage synths because of continuous maintenance issues. My Roland Juno 106 being a perfect example, replaced the filter and ocillator chips and then installed a Kiwi 106, now hve capacitors and other minor IC failures over time. I now have a Roland Jupiter Xm and have decided the 106 sounds on the Xm are plenty good enough in their own right so will be offloading the 106 once it returnes from the synth tech. I also have an old Kurzweil K2000 which I have fully maxed out and have a SCSI to USB flash drive. It's a keeper, although the problem with it has been the bottom case plastic has become brittle and I have had to buy another non working unit just to salvage the bottom part of the case.
Wow, SCSI to USB flash drives! I totally forgot about these. Brings back some old memories of POwerPC Macs too :-) Thank you for sharing your thoughts with the community. Greetings, Ralph
I love hardware. I love old synths and I have many. Every time Behringer or someone else makes a clone/remake I get caught up in comparing it to the originals. Nitpicking at it like it's the most important thing in the world. Meanwhile one of my favorite artist, who makes old school 80s-mid 90s electro-Industrial music, does everything totally in the box. 🙃 It's about the music in the end. I either like the music or I don't, regardless of the gear used in it.
I was wholeheartedly on the other side of the fence and disparaging all these clones. Until I got my hands on a few.. Now I'm not really looking back anymore and wholly embrace them and enthusiastically. I still have many original classics but in my setup if I can use a newer clone it has mostly replaced it. Particularly the MS-20 and Arp 2600 clones. My old originals I have a deep attachment to but can fully get the absolute Pain in the As$ they are as far as servicing. I use a lot of old Soviet gear and not much out there for clones so if it means keeping one of them running or my Arp.. I'm putting my resources (and unending headaches) elsewhere. Gen X also here and know the plight of drooling over some of these for 20 some years before could afford to get one. And then just when affordable the rug was pulled out underneath us quickly and the prices on some became unaffordable again. (If you know of the great Analog sell off of the mid 80's to early 90's you lived at a good time for collecting analog mono synths.. that is if you could afford them then)...
Yes, I do remember the analog sell off! That was the time when I got my original ARP 2600 at a relatively low price :-) Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. Cheers, Ralph
Fellow Gen-X here. I have a few lower end vintage synths (korg, roland, edp) and love them, however I totally agree with you regarding the cost of ownership of these machines. I now also have clones of several of them (and others) and couldn't be happier. Sure, it's nice to have an original, but the TCO is so expensive and it makes sense to have a clone with a price tag of a few hundred dollars to take the beating if you take it out live rather than something that will cost twice as much at least just to service it. Todays clones sound just as good in most cases so to me they are a no-brainer! Cheers Ralph ✌️
Hello David, many thanks for chiming in. Yes, I agree the sound of clones is solid and good, especially when you hear them in a full music track. Cheers, Ralph
@@michaelpavone1303 I suppose you want to use the Minilogue as a keyboard controller for the 2600 Synth. I don’t own a Korg Minilogue. I have just pressed a few keys on it during a trade show. But here’s how I would approach this problem. Checking the the Minilogue Midi settings, channel numbers, FX unit settings etc. and see what’s happening when you make a midi out connection. Take a look at what kind of midi and FX settings you can adjust with the Minilogue Sound Library software. Anyway, it sounds a bit strange that a midi connection switches off the FX unit. That’s why I think it must be possible to adjust this in the Minilogue settings. Cheers, Ralph
Great video Ralph. If you could only have one of the Behringer 2600 clones, which model would you choose? I'd like to get one at some point, but are not sure which of the 3 models to buy. Without really knowing the difference too well, I'd probably lean towards the black & orange model which seems to be the most common for the ARP 2600 & the Behringer clone. I don't play electronica music, and I'm really into 70s Prog Rock. "Lead" sounds would be my main use. I have a 2600 VST clone, but I like the idea of having the hardware format too with that many real-time controls. The Behringer clones are not expensive, and if I'm going to have one real analog synth in my rig, that seems like a good choice. It would be a lot more useful if it supported MIDI CC to control my VST synths or if it offered preset patch memory. The Blue Marvin appeared to offer fewer features than the others to me, but it must do something the others don't I'd imagine other than offer the unusual blue physical color. Thanks.
The Behringer Black & Orange, Blue Marvin, and Grey Meanie are exactly the same except the Blue and Grey models have a real spring reverb, whereas the Black & Orange uses a reverb circuit. Also, the Blue and Grey have some mylar caps in a few places where the Black & Orange have electrolytic (or ceramic?) caps. Mylar caps are better quality, but this is a difference you would be hard pressed to hear (or there is no real difference as far as I can tell). The Blue and Grey are exactly the same except for color. Also, the Blue and Grey are a little more expensive over the Black & Orange, due to that spring reverb. Buy a Blue or Grey if you want a real spring reverb. If you don't want a spring reverb (because sometimes people don't like the sound of a spring reverb), the Black & Orange is the one you want. I have a Blue Meanie because I wanted the spring reverb, and I preferred the color.
The other comment already answered most of your points. Bear in mind that the spring reverb always sound a bit "dirty and noise" but that's part of the unique sound. Also take a look at the Odyssey as it might be more suitable if you use the Synth in a 70s Prog Rock live environment for lead sounds. Cheers, Ralph
@@RalphBaumgartl Thanks. Last week I had the chance to buy the Behringer Odyssey dirt cheap in my area ($200), but I passed because it seemed like the 2600 would do nearly everything that did plus a lot more. Are there any sound the Odyssey can make the 2600 can't? Generally it seemed the Odyssey existed as mainly a cheaper alternative to the 2600 back in the day.
@@classicarcadeamusementpark4242 The Behringer Odyssey has a nice FX unit onboard. Apart from that the 2600 has more sound options than the Odyssey. But the Odyssey might be a better choice if you want to use the Synth mainly for Live gigs.
Ralph, great points and I agree 100% I'm sure there will be some "purists" that will come down your road, but they have other issues. Great channel, thans for the info.
Thank you for watching! The advantage of being a Gen-Xer is that you have plenty of experience to come up with your own educated decisions. I don't care what "Purists' might say if it contracts my personal experience ;-) Have a good day, Ralph
I have a good number of soft synths because vintage gear eventually fails. Sometimes it can be fixed. Sometimes not. Software fails too, but likely someone will write a new version.
I bought a B2600 blue marvin because of this channel about a year ago. It has crazy tune drift issues. I did not register with the behringer website fast enough and they will not cover repair. Now I have to pay to ship it back to Sweetwater and wait to see if they can fix it or if I am S.O.L. My point? Buyer beware, the quality issues are real, so make sure you register and all that jazz or you will be like me with a 10 month old 800 dollar useless junk box with a neato blue top. (After my issues I found all the other people online who have complained about the same thing. It's a known issue and either you get one that has it or you don't. Plenty of stuff out there on it, I just did not do my research before buying that sweet blue top. I always wanted a 2600... Seemed too good to be true....)
Have you run the firmware update? I never had any issues with my three B2600s. Perhaps I was just lucky. But my first ever SmartPhone came malfunctioning out of the sealed and original box. I guess I was unlucky there.... ;-)
@@RalphBaumgartl yes, updated. I just factory reset and updated to v1.01 blue Marvin, still drifts WAY out of tune, retune, back out again. Will not hold any note for more than 30 seconds... It is absolutely worthless in this condition, not even a year old, but not registered fast enough from time of purchase (again, under 1 year) and Behringer won't help me. Arturia has never done this to me and I have tons of equipment. I will NEVER buy another Behringer product. I am listing my sonic expander and 3dfx on reverb, Uli is officially kicked out of my studio.
@@newavestudios9883 I understand your disappointment. Sometimes certain brands just don't work for us. That already happened to me too although not in the Synth product field.
Next stop on this thought train - analog vs. virtual analog be it a physical synth or computer VST. For some workflow/interface and getting lost in sound exploration are a priority while others just want certain types of sounds to make music with. There are good reasons to buy analog or hybrid kit - I own 4 analog clones myself. An ever growing number of blind A/B tests continue to show personal belief their is a perceived sound difference is no longer among those reasons. At the same time people can buy whatever they want and believe whatever they want...
It's like the age-old debate of vinyl vs. digital in the music world. I guess it all comes down to personal preference in the end. And you are right, people can buy whatever they want and believe whatever they want...Let's always feel the joy of freedom :-)
No question most of the modern clones and "inspired by's" are objectively better. I would much rather have a new Prophet 5/10 Rev 4 than any vintage Prophet. More reliable, better MIDI, better keybed with touch sensitive, more patch memory and makes all the same noises. And a warranty. Same with the OB-X8 vs. OB-8/OB-Xa/OB-X. A re-issue Minimoog compared to a vintage Mini (which I have) again has MIDI, a _much_ nicer keybed, LFO, more reliable, etc, etc,... Don't even get me started on the 3rd Wave Vintage synths are mostly just nostalgia bait. They aren't "better" (whatever that means).
After Superbooth 2017 I was thinking about getting a MiniMoog re-issue. Behringer had a prototype of their Model-D on display. Eventually I purchased the Roland SE-02 :-) Still happy with it! Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Cheers, Ralph
If you think a Beringher 2600 could be compared to an ARP 2600 then go for it. But honnestly if you don't see and hear the difference between both synths and whatever Mid or USB added to new version then I think you have a problem 🙂
Of course I hear it! But for me as a GenerationX person the time playing a Synth is more important than "wasting" my time on repair related work :-) Cheers, Ralph
In the context of a song - I bet you would NOT be able to tell the original vs the clone. And that's all that matters - the music. 😂 PS: I think you are the one with the problem
Learn everything about the Behringer 2600 here:
ruclips.net/p/PLlJvIUzIwQ79naxyNxNQnNEj_KcmHp5D5
Watch my Behringer UB-Xa Videos:
ruclips.net/p/PLlJvIUzIwQ78nNoAC6z-mUfCyTIRCI8Pi&si=2-eVo7XmoT_5WA9N
Get started with the Behringer 2500 Eurorack System:
ruclips.net/p/PLlJvIUzIwQ7-c3uoCt82TRo2a_IZmYjCJ
ARP 2600 and Behringer 2600 Videos:
ruclips.net/p/PLlJvIUzIwQ7-i8ycRAQNnYcPmADP9quhE
Best regards, Ralph
I'm a Boomer who could never afford a synth. Now I've surrounded myself with inexpensive modern synths and clones, including a B2600. Your videos have helped a lot!
Cool! So clones can also help some people to pursue their dreams which they couldn't afford to pursue before...Wishing you lots of fun on your musical journey. Thanks for watching my content.
❤totally, the same for me, I had brought my old synths at a time the were let aside. 80 euros the Juno 6, 28 euros the Roland SH2000, 150 euros a Korg M1... next was a dream those clones are making tue!
Awesome prices
same here, couldn't afford the originals then, now I have a B-Odyssey B-Monopoly and Behringer System 15
Fully agree with you. But still i have hard time decide to sell the old ones
Just keep your vintage Synths unless you really need the money. Have a good week, Ralph
Hi Ralph, YES...I agree wholeheartedly! I used to have a plethora of vintage synths including several Oberheim OBXa's, OBSx, Arp/Rhodes Chroma and Chroma expander, the complete Korg MS series, and various other Moog, Roland, Korg, and Yamaha synths, (even a Pi Technos Axcel)...and sold them all!
Like you, I found that the cost even back then was getting too expensive to maintain these units.
These days I have a wonderful studio full of hardware synths (mainly from Behringer) and I'm quite happy with all of this modern gear. :) It allows me the ability to keep composing and producing my albums.
Keep up the great videos, Ralph...it's a joy to watch them!
Thank you for your kind words! The ARP/Rhodes Chroma plus Expander I saw only once in the flesh. At the Frankfurt music show in 1982. None of my buddies had one. Wishing you a great time recording your albums and many thanks for watching my content. Cheers, Ralph
Hey Ralph - Totally agree 👍
I'm pre- Gen X - that's probably Gen W 😄 - but not at all nostalgic or sentimental and don't regret selling any gear.
Hey Ian, thanks for chiming in! You belong to the Boomer generation then ;-)
@@RalphBaumgartl baby Boomers I think they called us 😄
Totally agreed, Ralph. I would never buy a Prophet 5 Rev 3, let alone Rev 1/2, but when Dave Smith released the Rev 4, I went for it. MIDI, velocity sensitivity, aftertouch, and - last but not least - reliability is what I need on a great synth. Even greater: the OB-X8, additionally combining three of the vintage behemoths in one instrument.
I also ❤ my BARP 2600. Thanks to your tutorials I can even operate it, and it sounds so fantastic.
The only company causing sadness deep in my heart is Roland. No reissue of the Jupiter-8/-6, no JX-8P, ZenCore crap instead. I love the sound of the vintage Rolands so much!
Thanks for watching my 2600 tutorials. Glad they helped you on your journey. Before the 2600 clones I was using the Arturia Keystep as a Midi/USB/CV interface to integrate my original ARP2600 into my contemporary studio setup. Now it's easy :-) Thanks for watching and commenting, Greetings, Ralph
Your thoughts and comments, definitely align with my own. I am also Gen X, and have grown to appreciate not only vintage clones, but also software synths that clone the vintage gear. There is a lot of emotional attachment and nostalgia, with the original synths, but as you said, along with those feelings comes a commitment to keep them going, which can be painfully expensive. Today’s vintage synths clones, while causing an uproar with some elitist, are the next step into the future. Everyone has access to sounds, that once upon a time, only the rich could afford. Do I think there is a moral issue, from a company bringing back synths that haven’t been produced in decades, and bringing them back with features the originals never had? Nope, sure don’t. Pac-Man was once an arcade only game to us Gen-Xers, but then it came to consoles, handhelds, MAME, PC’s, and it is even on my phone. I love the original arcade version, but I cannot afford it, and I’m super happy using MAME. Purists may hate it, but technology is still advancing, and if we can enjoy modern, reliable, inexpensive versions of our past technology, then, in Captain Picards words, engage!
Thanks! I love it when other Gen-Xers are sharing their thoughts. Reading your comment brought back a funny memory. Prior to 1982 Christmas a school buddy of mine was asking his Dad to get the Tron Arcade game as a Xmas gift. I told my buddy that it was too expensive. His dad could buy a second hand car for that kind of money. Nevertheless my buddy was very disappointed when he didn't get the Tron Arcade game for Xmas. BTW, as Gen-Xers we have learned that change is inevitable regardless what some elitist might proclaim... ;-)
Some of us like vintage synths as we do vintage cars. It's never about reliability or cost.
As I said, a strong emotional connection is reason enough for some folks....
A synth tech once told me that vintage synths are vastly easier to repair due to their through hole components, as opposed to the current synths’ surface mount.
I’m cynical of the durability of modern synths, like any modern manufactured items, where profit margins and mass production eat into quality control. I have a few synths from the 70s-90s that are still going strong (serviced when needed), and a couple of new ones that have irreparably malfunctioned under warranty.
For me, the cost factor, as well as availability are the main drivers for purchasing clones.
Thanks for sharing your insights! Also vintage cars are easier to repair. That's what some friends who are mechanics told me. But getting the right spare parts and constant maintenance is similiar to the vintage synth world ;-) Greetings, Ralph
@@RalphBaumgartl excellent analogy. Features that we take for granted in modern cars/synths are an advantage too. Looking forward to your next video…
If it wasn't for Behringer, I would have never had a MiniMoog… way to pricy. Music is just a hobby for me. So making a clone at 300€ rather than 2000€, I'm a happy man. As for the 2600, I love it and at 555€, it's a bargain. even a steal comparing to a rare ARP 2600. I can't even imagine the price. Now I'm just waiting for the holy grail, the VCS3. vielen Dank schön for the video. Un grand merci 🙂
Thanks for watching and commenting. I am also waiting for the VCS3 😃
Hallo Ralph, ein sehr später GenXer hier (1980) Ich mag deine Videos über die 2600er! Ich besitze seit kurzem den Korg ARP2600M und er ist fantastisch. Ich besitze ihn vor allem, weil für mich persönlich der 2600er "DER" Synthesizer Klassiker ist. Für viele ist es ja der MiniMoog, der MS-20 oder der Juno-60. Für mich geht damit tatsächlich ein Lebenstraum in Erfüllung. Ich hab zwar auch ein gut bestücktes Eurorack und ein paar andere Hardware Synths, aber der ARP2600 hat einen ganz besonderen Platz in meinem Herzen.
Ja, dem kann ich nur beipflichten, der 2600 ist ein ganz besonderer Synth! VG Ralph
I have a vintage MiniMoog from 1974 that rapidly goes out of calibration. I'm considering the Behringer model D, I wonder if that's more stable. The Behringer 2600 I just received seems to be a solid unit. Your videos on that subject are extremely helpful.
Thanks for watching my content. I have a couple of Behringer Synths and none of them gave me any trouble so far.
I’m also GenX and have had many vintage synths over the years. I have a fascination with the 80’ hybrids like Korg DW8000 and Ensoniq ESQ-80. I’ve had jupiters and Juno’s and moogs….and all of them had service issues. I finally just got fed up with it and, with a few exceptions, let it all go. It felt like the gear was owning me and not the other way around.
I’m much happier with the clones and virtual instruments I use now. The sound good enough to my old burned out ears.
And to those who say that the clones are cheap and won’t be around 50 years from now….well, neither will I do that’s fine with me.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I can totally relate to your reasons. At a certain age having a pleasurable time is just more important... ;-) Cheers, Ralph
We love you Ralph!!! Your passion and knowledge is inspiring, brother.
Thanks a lot for your kind words! Also may thanks for watching my content! Greetings, Ralph
The younger generation will never know how it felt almost impossible to poses any of these modern marvels back then especially if you leaved outside of US.
These vintage classics belong in the hands of ones who earned them over time, know basic electronics to troubleshoot or in the museums.
The clones is the ultimate compromise for newer generations owning hardware vs. Vsts.
That's the reason why I keep the vintage stuff that I already own....but as a GenerationX person time is becoming more valuable by the day and we have to make our own personal choices what we are using our time for....
I ignore the people who whine about clones - especially the ones who possess VSTs of those same synths! 😂
My vintage monosynth I bought in 1985 and built from a kit. I started refurbishing it but the Neutron came out and although not a clone had a very similar sound to mine and the refurb has been stuck on my to-do list ever since! I have no wish to add to that list.
The only other vintage synths I own are a DX27, TX7, DX7 IID, and E-mu Proteus/1. The latter I only keep to as a harsh reminder to never settle for less because I should have kept saving for the vastly superior Roland U-220 that I really wanted 😢
My connection to vintage synths is primarily due to interest in how they work ('70's-'80's electronics). I got into electronics for a career in the '80's because of wanting to understand this stuff. Of course playing them is fun too. Repairing them isn't difficult for me, but for most people I don't recommend buying vintage unless you like DIY, or you have a trustworthy repair person you trust and able to spend a little bit of money every now and then. Most repairs are pretty easy and not horribly expensive.
Otherwise, I much prefer having a modern re-release of the original. Far less likely to have issues.
Thank you! I am glad that you are sharing your insights from the DIY perspective. Hope many viewers will read your comment as well. Thanks for watching and commenting. Greetings, Ralph
I have a Emax 2 and Iam very happy for it and i Think that your doing a great job 🎹🎹🎹👌👍💪😎
Wishing you a long and trouble free time with your Emax2. Thanks for watching! Cheers, Ralph
I still have also my EMAX II bought at Synthesizer Studio Bonn
@@dirk6420 Cool! I bought my Oberheim OB-1 at Synthesizer Studio Bonn. And my Dad drove me there. That was in March 1982 😃
@@RalphBaumgartl These are such lovely memories, thanks for sharing. These moments will always remain a part of us.
Well said! Anyone claiming superiority and exclusivity of "vintage" synths is doing nothing short of gatekeeping. To not embrace the wealth of synth options today and a range of prices accessible to everyone is just ridiculous.
Anything goes in today's Synth world....and not curtailed by price.
I have an original Yamaha Sy22 which I have had since 1990. It still sounds wonderful, however bits are failing - mainly the buttons. It needs a service. You cant buy the memory cards any more either. I have a Blue marvin, and love it. From what I understand of the original, it could be temperamental on occasions. I probably would never have bought an original 2600 due to the price (if the clones weren't available) so my experience with the 2600 is purely due to it being a clone. I also have a Roland s-1, a modern digital recreation of the famous sh-101. It sounds great, and I have a lot of fun with it. If it means I can play a "vintage" synth to get *that* sound, then I will get a clone. I can't wait for Behringer's enigma to be released (buchla clone). I can't afford an original, or even the new buchla.
Thank you for sharing your experience with your vintage synths. I mentioned this already in another comment, my original ARP 2600 was also only really stable within 2,5 octaves. Going out of this range required some retuning. With the B2600 I can go beyond four octaves :-) Many thanks for watching! Greetings, Ralph
Modern components. Like paired transistors in dual packages, C0G capacitors, opamps which are having low dc offsets and more linear responses, better sliders and potentiometers are making "clones" better that originals. Barp2600 gray and blue are great. Pro800 are amazing. Bolina is perfect. Kobol is as dynamic as the original.
Thanks for commenting! I am hearing s lot of praise for Kobol clone although I never had a chance to check it out for myself.
Hallo Ralph, sehr gut gesprochen und entspricht genau meiner Sicht auf die Dinge! Ich freue mich auf weitere Videos von Dir! Bin ich von der Generation Nine, wenn ich älter bin als Du? 😀 Viele Grüße! Frank
Hallo Frank, dann müsstest du der Boomer Generation angehören ;-) Für beide Generationen wird die Zeit immer kostbarer. Vielen Dank fürs Anschauen, Ralph
People tend to idealize those classic vintage synths. Take the Jupiter 8 for example. In the late 80s my guitar teacher had a Jupiter 8 sitting in the corner of his studio under a pile of random stuff. At the time I was playing guitar but I really like synthesizers but was way too poor to buy even a cheap synth like a Juno 106 which at the time wasn’t even considered a professional instrument. My guitar teacher wasn’t using the Jupiter 8 because it was a out of tune. Each week I was bugging him to have it tuned and after a few weeks he had it serviced. We played it and it was fantastic but the next week when we tried to play the backing track we came up with the week prior, it was completely out of tune. So even when they were relatively new, those synths were nowhere near as reliable as today’s synths. I understand the value and historical significance of those synths but to actually use them in a music production environment you need a lot of patience and deep pockets to keep them in working condition. And don’t even think of using them in a live environment, it’s a recipe for disaster. So for most people, the closest thing they can get to experiencing something similar to playing those vintage instruments is to play a Behringer clone and I think it’s a good thing.
Thanks for this detailed comment sharing your experience with the Jupiter 8. My original ARP 2600 was also only really stable within 2,5 octaves. Going out of this range required some retuning. Many thanks for watching and commenting. Cheers, Ralph
I don't have any vintage synths. I could never afford them though I did own a Jen SX1000 and SX2000. Loved them both I have to say. Old synths need lots of love and care and money, so buying clones makes perfect sense 😊
It's all about the love for the music, vintage or not! Greetings, Ralph
Absolutely identified with this video
I appreciate you connecting with the content, it means a lot! Greetings, Ralph
Hi Ralph, I really enjoyed this video, being a fellow Gen X with similar interests to you, the video really resonated with me. I have decided not to buy any more vintage synths because of continuous maintenance issues. My Roland Juno 106 being a perfect example, replaced the filter and ocillator chips and then installed a Kiwi 106, now hve capacitors and other minor IC failures over time. I now have a Roland Jupiter Xm and have decided the 106 sounds on the Xm are plenty good enough in their own right so will be offloading the 106 once it returnes from the synth tech.
I also have an old Kurzweil K2000 which I have fully maxed out and have a SCSI to USB flash drive. It's a keeper, although the problem with it has been the bottom case plastic has become brittle and I have had to buy another non working unit just to salvage the bottom part of the case.
Wow, SCSI to USB flash drives! I totally forgot about these. Brings back some old memories of POwerPC Macs too :-) Thank you for sharing your thoughts with the community. Greetings, Ralph
I love hardware. I love old synths and I have many. Every time Behringer or someone else makes a clone/remake I get caught up in comparing it to the originals. Nitpicking at it like it's the most important thing in the world. Meanwhile one of my favorite artist, who makes old school 80s-mid 90s electro-Industrial music, does everything totally in the box. 🙃 It's about the music in the end. I either like the music or I don't, regardless of the gear used in it.
Agree! Being creative with the gear you have is key....
I was wholeheartedly on the other side of the fence and disparaging all these clones. Until I got my hands on a few.. Now I'm not really looking back anymore and wholly embrace them and enthusiastically. I still have many original classics but in my setup if I can use a newer clone it has mostly replaced it. Particularly the MS-20 and Arp 2600 clones. My old originals I have a deep attachment to but can fully get the absolute Pain in the As$ they are as far as servicing. I use a lot of old Soviet gear and not much out there for clones so if it means keeping one of them running or my Arp.. I'm putting my resources (and unending headaches) elsewhere. Gen X also here and know the plight of drooling over some of these for 20 some years before could afford to get one. And then just when affordable the rug was pulled out underneath us quickly and the prices on some became unaffordable again. (If you know of the great Analog sell off of the mid 80's to early 90's you lived at a good time for collecting analog mono synths.. that is if you could afford them then)...
Yes, I do remember the analog sell off! That was the time when I got my original ARP 2600 at a relatively low price :-) Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. Cheers, Ralph
Absolutely agreed. 👍 Thanks a lot for sharing this video.
Great minds think alike! Glad we're on the same page. Thank you so much for watching!
Fellow Gen-X here. I have a few lower end vintage synths (korg, roland, edp) and love them, however I totally agree with you regarding the cost of ownership of these machines. I now also have clones of several of them (and others) and couldn't be happier.
Sure, it's nice to have an original, but the TCO is so expensive and it makes sense to have a clone with a price tag of a few hundred dollars to take the beating if you take it out live rather than something that will cost twice as much at least just to service it. Todays clones sound just as good in most cases so to me they are a no-brainer!
Cheers Ralph ✌️
Hello David, many thanks for chiming in. Yes, I agree the sound of clones is solid and good, especially when you hear them in a full music track. Cheers, Ralph
Ralph. Help. When I connect my Korg xd up to bringer 2600 I lose effects from Korg Any ideas 💡
What kind of connection are you performing? Midi, CV or Audio?
@@RalphBaumgartl midi
@@michaelpavone1303 I suppose you want to use the Minilogue as a keyboard controller for the 2600 Synth. I don’t own a Korg Minilogue. I have just pressed a few keys on it during a trade show. But here’s how I would approach this problem. Checking the the Minilogue Midi settings, channel numbers, FX unit settings etc. and see what’s happening when you make a midi out connection. Take a look at what kind of midi and FX settings you can adjust with the Minilogue Sound Library software. Anyway, it sounds a bit strange that a midi connection switches off the FX unit. That’s why I think it must be possible to adjust this in the Minilogue settings. Cheers, Ralph
Great video Ralph.
If you could only have one of the Behringer 2600 clones, which model would you choose?
I'd like to get one at some point, but are not sure which of the 3 models to buy. Without really knowing the difference too well, I'd probably lean towards the black & orange model which seems to be the most common for the ARP 2600 & the Behringer clone. I don't play electronica music, and I'm really into 70s Prog Rock. "Lead" sounds would be my main use. I have a 2600 VST clone, but I like the idea of having the hardware format too with that many real-time controls. The Behringer clones are not expensive, and if I'm going to have one real analog synth in my rig, that seems like a good choice. It would be a lot more useful if it supported MIDI CC to control my VST synths or if it offered preset patch memory. The Blue Marvin appeared to offer fewer features than the others to me, but it must do something the others don't I'd imagine other than offer the unusual blue physical color.
Thanks.
The Behringer Black & Orange, Blue Marvin, and Grey Meanie are exactly the same except the Blue and Grey models have a real spring reverb, whereas the Black & Orange uses a reverb circuit. Also, the Blue and Grey have some mylar caps in a few places where the Black & Orange have electrolytic (or ceramic?) caps. Mylar caps are better quality, but this is a difference you would be hard pressed to hear (or there is no real difference as far as I can tell). The Blue and Grey are exactly the same except for color. Also, the Blue and Grey are a little more expensive over the Black & Orange, due to that spring reverb.
Buy a Blue or Grey if you want a real spring reverb. If you don't want a spring reverb (because sometimes people don't like the sound of a spring reverb), the Black & Orange is the one you want. I have a Blue Meanie because I wanted the spring reverb, and I preferred the color.
The other comment already answered most of your points. Bear in mind that the spring reverb always sound a bit "dirty and noise" but that's part of the unique sound. Also take a look at the Odyssey as it might be more suitable if you use the Synth in a 70s Prog Rock live environment for lead sounds. Cheers, Ralph
@@mglohmeyerThanks!
@@RalphBaumgartl Thanks. Last week I had the chance to buy the Behringer Odyssey dirt cheap in my area ($200), but I passed because it seemed like the 2600 would do nearly everything that did plus a lot more. Are there any sound the Odyssey can make the 2600 can't? Generally it seemed the Odyssey existed as mainly a cheaper alternative to the 2600 back in the day.
@@classicarcadeamusementpark4242 The Behringer Odyssey has a nice FX unit onboard. Apart from that the 2600 has more sound options than the Odyssey. But the Odyssey might be a better choice if you want to use the Synth mainly for Live gigs.
I do know that you should get the Behringer Pro-800!! You won't regret it, take it from me! I've recently bought one and it's SUPERB!! :O
Yes, I also think the UB-Xa and Pro-800 would make a great combo, but at the moment I have more Synths than I actually need ;-)
I have tons of vintage synths and samplers, and some clones... to be honest, I think the clones will die sooner than the vintages...
That's an interesting question! Only the future will tell....
Ralph, great points and I agree 100% I'm sure there will be some "purists" that will come down your road, but they have other issues.
Great channel, thans for the info.
Thank you for watching! The advantage of being a Gen-Xer is that you have plenty of experience to come up with your own educated decisions. I don't care what "Purists' might say if it contracts my personal experience ;-) Have a good day, Ralph
I have a good number of soft synths because vintage gear eventually fails. Sometimes it can be fixed. Sometimes not. Software fails too, but likely someone will write a new version.
Exactly! That's the very reason why I have never looked down on Software Synths! Greetings, Ralph
I bought a B2600 blue marvin because of this channel about a year ago. It has crazy tune drift issues. I did not register with the behringer website fast enough and they will not cover repair. Now I have to pay to ship it back to Sweetwater and wait to see if they can fix it or if I am S.O.L. My point? Buyer beware, the quality issues are real, so make sure you register and all that jazz or you will be like me with a 10 month old 800 dollar useless junk box with a neato blue top. (After my issues I found all the other people online who have complained about the same thing. It's a known issue and either you get one that has it or you don't. Plenty of stuff out there on it, I just did not do my research before buying that sweet blue top. I always wanted a 2600... Seemed too good to be true....)
Have you run the firmware update? I never had any issues with my three B2600s. Perhaps I was just lucky. But my first ever SmartPhone came malfunctioning out of the sealed and original box. I guess I was unlucky there.... ;-)
@@RalphBaumgartl yes, updated. I just factory reset and updated to v1.01 blue Marvin, still drifts WAY out of tune, retune, back out again. Will not hold any note for more than 30 seconds... It is absolutely worthless in this condition, not even a year old, but not registered fast enough from time of purchase (again, under 1 year) and Behringer won't help me. Arturia has never done this to me and I have tons of equipment. I will NEVER buy another Behringer product. I am listing my sonic expander and 3dfx on reverb, Uli is officially kicked out of my studio.
@@newavestudios9883 I understand your disappointment. Sometimes certain brands just don't work for us. That already happened to me too although not in the Synth product field.
I would always choose vintage synth “clones”. But Im not nostalgic about old synths. New ones are in mist cases much better.
And reliability on top of that 😃
Next stop on this thought train - analog vs. virtual analog be it a physical synth or computer VST. For some workflow/interface and getting lost in sound exploration are a priority while others just want certain types of sounds to make music with. There are good reasons to buy analog or hybrid kit - I own 4 analog clones myself. An ever growing number of blind A/B tests continue to show personal belief their is a perceived sound difference is no longer among those reasons. At the same time people can buy whatever they want and believe whatever they want...
It's like the age-old debate of vinyl vs. digital in the music world. I guess it all comes down to personal preference in the end. And you are right, people can buy whatever they want and believe whatever they want...Let's always feel the joy of freedom :-)
No question most of the modern clones and "inspired by's" are objectively better. I would much rather have a new Prophet 5/10 Rev 4 than any vintage Prophet. More reliable, better MIDI, better keybed with touch sensitive, more patch memory and makes all the same noises. And a warranty.
Same with the OB-X8 vs. OB-8/OB-Xa/OB-X.
A re-issue Minimoog compared to a vintage Mini (which I have) again has MIDI, a _much_ nicer keybed, LFO, more reliable, etc, etc,...
Don't even get me started on the 3rd Wave
Vintage synths are mostly just nostalgia bait. They aren't "better" (whatever that means).
After Superbooth 2017 I was thinking about getting a MiniMoog re-issue. Behringer had a prototype of their Model-D on display. Eventually I purchased the Roland SE-02 :-) Still happy with it! Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Cheers, Ralph
If you think a Beringher 2600 could be compared to an ARP 2600 then go for it. But honnestly if you don't see and hear the difference between both synths and whatever Mid or USB added to new version then I think you have a problem 🙂
Of course I hear it! But for me as a GenerationX person the time playing a Synth is more important than "wasting" my time on repair related work :-) Cheers, Ralph
In the context of a song - I bet you would NOT be able to tell the original vs the clone. And that's all that matters - the music. 😂 PS: I think you are the one with the problem
😊So you have both the two to compare direct live..... if not, you have a problem...❤
You do know Ralph has both right?
There's more of a difference between two ARP2600 and a Korg 2600 than a B2600. And in a mix, there's no way you could tell in a double blind test.