Even though he was a traitor, I would have included Krell as a war criminal. Not just for wasting the lives of his troops, but mainly for ordering his troops against each other.
I'm disagreeing with the EMP Bomb, that one was an attempt not to commit war crimes. It just had a side effect of awaking the ZIllow Beast. It honestly worked and that weapon should have become a standard first strike weapon as it only harmed electronics.
I do know what nuclear warheads, while able to be manufactured in the Star Wars Universe like candy, are not a widely produced weapon due to the high energy of turbo lasers. Steam engines are the most powerful type of engine known to practical science (extremely high torque), but due to their slow rotational speeds, are the last choice when it comes to the making of vehicles like cars. It is for this reason the majority of the world knows that steam engines exist, but don't give them any thought other than "Old and broken" Turbo lasers are high energy weapons that have no side-effects lie radiation and cancer. That alone might be the reason why nuclear weapons and EMP devices are not used more often. EMP is a side-effect of nuclear detonations, after all. a normal EMP blast would be purely electromagnetic and have no mushroom cloud. This implies to me that the EMP bomb used in the Clone wars was a small scale nuclear device.
Pretty much this. I wonder if Anakin and Obi-Wan's bullshit actually caused any Jedi who were surrendering legitimately to just have their request denied (you know, if it was even limited to Obi-Wan and Anakin)
The Flag of truce rule breaking espically against sentiment beings enraged me so much. I may be a bit more forgiving if it’s against driods but still it’s very dishonorable
I think the Jedi have always had a blindspot where the plight of the clones is concerned, because the ideals instilled in the clones by the kaminoans are so similar to their own. Both are raised in these cultures from birth with no real outside perspective. Both are likewise trained to be ready for battle as early as possible (see Jedi 5 yr olds doing saber training). Both are told to serve the needs of the Republic over themselves, neither is allowed possessions. Pretty sure I could go on. Is it any wonder the Jedi don't see anything wrong with the Clone army?
And if we add to this that the Jedi could not leave the order, and that the Padawans called their teacher "master", it very hinted that the Jedi were as free as all the slaves in the Old Republic.
@@СергейПанферов-й5х they could leave the order actually. However they had no choice about joining it and they had nothing if they left. No credits, no home, nothing. Which is also how slaves were kept in check. Without the slavery they didn't have food water or shelter.
The Jedi saw the clones more as people than anyone else. The problem is the government owns the clones and is also in charge of the Jedi. So even if the Jedi said they wouldn't be generals, the Republic was going to use them anyway. All the questions he poses in the video are the responsibility of the government. The government run by people who don't even want to fight their own war. I mean the Jedi encouraged great individuality in the clones. It was the rest of the galaxy who saw them as little more than organic droids. So this to me is a crime against the Republic and Senate, not the Jedi.
Nice one! But technicaly, Griveous was brainwashed, so his actions were highly infulenced by his new state of mind. I do not believe him to be so cold and cruel before the transformation.
@Special Bronze war crimes as a concept was only in its infancy. At that time period. And you'll find both sides didnt really do anything vastly different from each other or unusual in warfare at the time.
@Special Bronze I extremely disagree with. I challenge you to find systemic, or leadership directed war crimes, that were actual crimes at the time and not later, and not isolated examples of some individual or unit.
@Special Bronze Americans are not the only perps of war crimes. To me small unit issues are somewhat irrelevant to the conduct of the nation of a whole. When looking at the macro scale.
@Special Bronze your getting way off topic. War crimes in any function and size are terrible. Just basically my point is that small unit isolated crimes are basically a natural by product of war and are incredibly common. But WWI is conflict remarkably free of major human rights violations.
They are only insurgents from the enemy perspective. Technically the colonists were insurgents until we won then we were revolutionarys. The confederacy had succeeded from the union but they lost so they were rebels and traitors. Those titles are all meaningless until the winner is decided or their is a faction in ckntrol of the situation/media.
Haha, yes! This is just like me in every Star Wars related thread on reddit. _"The Jedi believe in a mystical prophecy about restoring balance to the force, and their narrow minded definition of balance is the complete and utter destruction of the Sith. How can you support a religious extremist organisation whose stated goal is the violent annihilation of people they've unilaterally labeled heretics, and who have in the past both successfully commited and unsuccessfully attempted genocide? The Separatists merely want the right of self-determination, to leave the Republic, and you're siding with the Jedi who field armies of slave soldiers against people seeking freedom in order to preserve and perpetuate Republic political hegemony in the galaxy? That's fucked!"_ People get very upset. They're really invested in maintaining the naive black-and-white narrative of the Jedi as these ultimate good guys whose actions are always justified and anyone who goes against them, or who they go against, is therefore by definition evil.
@@axebearer in all fairness though the separatist did their fair share of awful actions, doesn't matter if it involves the civilians of the separatist or not.
The Jedi temple is a legal target. Customary international law would classify the Jedi order as a paramilitary organization, not a civilian organization. The use of the Jedi temple as a paramilitary training facility and a fortified assembly area for combatants is inconsistent with any claim of protected status.
That seems to be a poor argument. The Jedi are not paramilitary in any conventional sense- they are not a military force first and foremost, they are instead a religious (well, at least mystic) organization that had a large number of members deputized into the leadership of the GAR. Second, the Temple is at least partially a school, which would imply protected status.
@@patrickbuerke1390 The Jedi would be accurately classified as a paramilitary or semi-military organization. They function as a highly trained police force in peacetime and have been mobilized to fight in an armed conflict on behalf of a government. Are their spiritual beliefs relevant to their status as combatants? No. Not really. Also, the Jedi order's failure to separate combatant and non-combatant functions does not make its facilities protected by international law. The Jedi order has a legal and moral obligation not to use these non-combatants as human shields.
im gonna say if they used the temple as a school, or for worship,- then ANY use of it in a military sense as in training, command and control etc COULD put them right there with Al-Queda / ISIS using schools/churches to do the the same. LOTS OF GREY AREA IN WAR. speaking of grey......Kreia is best jedi ever
With Cad Bane (spelling?), it wasn't a war crime as Bane wasn't at war with the Jedi, nor they with him. He was a criminal and was being interrogated in the Jedi's role as law enforcement. They instead committed a civil rights violation.
Just like China, Russia, France and the United States haven't signed all parts of the convention LOL. All hell breaks loose there are no rules but win at any cost.
Alan, I'd like to place an objection on Anakin being guilty of a war crime by killing Count Dooku after he had surrendered. Anakin was technically acting on a General Order which came from the Head of State of the Republic Chancellor Palpatine himself. As the Supreme Chancellor who is given emergency powers by the Senate during a time of war Palpatine was well within the realm of legality and had the proper authority to order the execution of a prisoner of war. Now from a moral standpoint I agree that what Anakin did was wrong.
@@axebearer I realize that in our world and in our universe both the Jedi and the Separtists would be guilty of war crimes. The point of view in which I'm coming from is that in the Star Wars Universe killing Count Dooku would not be considered a war crime in the eyes of either the Republic or the Separtists. Neither side had negotiated terms for the treatment of prisoners of war or were bound by a treaty on how to conduct warfare like nations in our world are.
@@jakealter5504 This is true. Mace could have easily argued self defense in a Supreme Court trial especially since Palpatine was the one who attacked first
Personally I disagree with 3. Barris had gone rogue from the order, and as such the order shouldn't be held responsible for her actions 6. Onderons legitimate government had been brought down by a coup, as such helping insurgents reinstate the rightful government is not a war crime. 8. If lightsabers were illegal by galactic laws I dont think that the Jedi would have been allowed to use them for over 10000 years. Agree with the flamethrowers. No one could have known that the EMP Bomb could awake space Godzilla, I dont believe that a EMP bomb would be illegal against the droid army.
He didn't say that the lightsabers were the problem. On the contrary, they were used as an example for what the jedi supposedly believed in. He specifically said that they are a defensive weapon.
Hmm I disagree on flamethrowers because it’s usually a situational weapon and maybe it’s because I have a personal love for things being on fire. For as it is written, “Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.”
I mean the EMP bomb did collapse a sinkhole, if it can do that then i think that would certainly mean it could damage some surroundings And it's not just droids it disables, it disables all electronics, just keep that in mind
@@Cpt_Boony_Hat Yeah, they'll also be in unnecessary pain and agony for the rest of their life too, I still think flamethrowers or other flame-based weapons should not be used against organic beings
To be fair. After Windu had disarmed Palpatine he did say "You are Under Arrest" and Palpatine just tried to blast him with Lightning. By your and all accounts, Windu isn't really wrong for considering then attempting to kill Palpatine as he might try that same trick again
@@selonianth He tried to arrest a Sith. No mention of treason was made and the Republic had no laws against being a Sith. It's a very clear example of the Jedi ignoring their own teachings in pursuit of personal goals.
Well if you think about it, Luke killed nearly a million people when be blew up the Death Star. Not a war crime, but it might actually give him a higher kill count than daddy Vader.
@@englishlady9797 There could have been civilians onboard, families visiting onboard the station could have gotten caught into the attack, yet idk if families could come onto the DS
@@Aidan-zc8wx They seem like a hive mind due to their incredibly strict hierarchy, but each Geonosian is actually it's own individual. That's actually a part of why Geonosis has it's gladiatorial arenas, low class Geonosians will fight in them to win their freedom and a chance at joining the nobility.
I think that was the point of the Prequel. The idea that a religious order would be corrupted once it become subservient to the Government and Government interest, instead of the force. In the comic and book you could see them being misleaded by Government to do horrible stuff. Like the conflict between General Grievous people was because a Republic planet told the Republic that they were being invaded by a Warlord but didn't told them it was because they tried to invade and enslave them. The conflict with Jango Fett was because a Planet Governor lied to them saying they were the bad guys but infact he was the bad guy. Then eventually people brought in the Grey Jedi idea then it became the Jedi were always out of balance and wrong, in doing so they lost certain things. Where before that was not the overall message of the Jedi and the Force but how the Jedi should service the force and not government.
_ TILUX_ I’d live in the old republic era with the great galactic war and pick the sith empire. Put me in intelligence or the sith order, we’ll crush the Jedi filth!
I was wondering where are using child soldiers would be ranked and just before I hit play I remembered the surrender shenanigans Obi-Wan and Aniken pulled
“Mace Windu almost executes Chancellor Palpatine after he surrenders as well” come on now, he was just pretending to be helpless cause Anakin walked in, he clearly wasn’t surrendering. If anything it was an act of false surrender like Obi-Wans bs parlay on Christophsis
This does not matter. Yes, Palpatine was faking, but even if Mace knew this to be true (which is debatable), killing a foe who surrenders is strictly prohibited by the Jedi Code. Actually, killing in any case but self-defense is strictly prohibited by the Jedi Code, yet the Jedi continously break this rule willfully and conciously.
@@DraculaCronqvist Killing Palpatine would absolutely have been self-defense. If you watch the scene closely, it actually starts with Palp *attacking* Mace Windu with the intent of killing him. They in turn just wanted to arrest him but after he attacked, there was no way for them (or after a while only Windu) to do that. Imo Windu must've been aware that Palpatine was still dangerous to him
@@taran99y96 This is factually untrue. Palpatine was disarmed and his lightning attack ended in failure. Although Palpatine was faking his weakness, Windu had no way of knowing so and attempted to kill somebody whom he had supposedly completely beaten. No, it was not self-defense. It would have been self-defense had he cut down Palpatine mid-battle. Windu broke the code blatantly and fully.
Can a geonosian soldier drone be considered an Individual? Pro: They are a physically separate entity from their hive, and as such can have differring political views from their Queen. Cons: they are living in the superorganism "hive", and as such are unable to be considered separate enough.
A geonosian drone may be similar to an ant. Ants are capable of functioning independently from the hive colony, but ultimately desire to serve under a queen. Ants have been known to serve different queens over their lifetime, and have been known to be conquered by neighboring hives to serve under their queen. Drones are incapable of reproduction, so it is likely that the death of a drone is of insignificant economic impact. The moral implications are very different, but also very troubling. Geonosian drones have the intelligence to manufacture droids and design super weapons, so the genesis of new thoughts and ideas is prevalent among them. We live in a society. Is it really so different from a Geonosian hive?
We have Poggle and we have that one Geonosian in Rebels, i think they’ve shown to be independent enough to be deserving of the rights owed to sapient beings.
Anakin, yeah that was a screw up with Dooku. Palpatine, on the other hand, had no intention of surrendering. Teaching rebels isn't a war crime. Sorry, it just isn't. Everyone does it. And the original king of Onderon was deposed by a Separatist coup.
Generation Tech: "'Most' developed countries had developed guidelines for what kinds of methods are acceptable for extracting information" The US Fed Gov: lol hold my beer
@@Swearengen1980 still doesn't make it right and frankly it's a big spotlight on how ineffective the Geneva convention really is when you have countries like America , China Russia picking and choosing what to follow
@@kurtpunchesthings2411 Reality: There's no right or wrong in war. It's all ugly. There are winners and losers, the strong and the weak. Can't handle it, find your safe space and hide away until the strong find you.
1:42-Obi-Wan doesn't halt the Separatists, he distracts their general, but the battle is still going on in the background. They're still advancing as the talks go on. 4:34-You cannot judge the order based on the actions of a rogue member. Barriss Offee does not represent the Jedi in this event. 5:50-To be fair, that order came directly from the Supreme Chancellor, the Commander-in-Chief of the Grand Army of the Republic. No one disobeys an order from the Commander-in-Chief. 6:01-Palpatine never surrendered and, being a Sith with force lightning, was still dangerous in that situation. 6:29-Also technically, the government of Onderon was not the legitimate government, but a Separatist puppet government. 7:06-That parallels the IRA. They started out as rebels fighting for Irish independence, but are now terrorists, not rebels. What happened to Saw is not on the Jedi. 8:42-The Jedi did form bonds with their clones and furthermore, I doubt anyone was planning for after the Clone Wars, except for Palpatine. The Clones were not slaves. They were men, not droids. 10:06-What about the illegal and dangerous weapons used by the Separatists, such as the Malevolence or the Blue Shadow Virus? If we want to hold the Republic accountable, shouldn't we also hold the Separatists accountable?
Especially when you take the old adage "One mans freedom fighter is another man's terrorist" then that makes Saw a bit more sympathetic. I'll be honest that I don't know what the full situation was here but lets consider that the Empire wasnt exactaly "legitimate" and was planning on using a planet destroying superweapon that could produce more raw power than if every nuke on Earth went off at once, I don't think a couple of raids on Imperial supply lines and patrols is too much.
About your last point this is just stating the Jedi war crimes not the separatist war crimes. Just because the Japanese committed terrible war crimes doesn’t mean the Americans aren’t also accountable to their own crimes.
I think its important to remember, as Revenge of the Sith points out, that when the Clone War is in full swing, there are heroes on both sides. By default, that also means there are villains on both sides too.
@@maxheinrichliebow are you saying that “from a certain point of view” there are heroes on the evil side? Because in the same text, directly following there are heroes on both sides, it states, “Evil is everywhere.” So… from an unbiased perspective, there aren’t any heroes on the evil side.
@@Ray-Bedrock-Edition-17.23 there is no unbiased perspective during war. Thats the issue. When people on one side triumph, there is applause and cheer. And hope. When the people on the other side triumph, there is applause and cheer. And hope. What is heroism? Its going above and beyond for your cause, risking a lot, and fighting on despite the barriers. Its only politics that create a divide between which side thinks itself more noble than the other... so sadly, what we might deem evil, may not be deemed evil by the side we think is evil, because what we think is not the be all and end all of wider thought and perspective.
Palpatine didn't surrender though, Windu kept telling him to surrender and even though he did aim to end his life, Palpatine never once said "I surrender."
I think that the Jedi's use of the EMP weapon at the Battle of Malastare is acceptable as the droids are not sentient (although that does create issues), and it is no different to the use of nuclear ordanance. It could also be argued that by destroying the droid army it prevented them from conquering the planet and causing pain and destruction
the droids could be called sentient though, they are capable of independent thought and when not restrained by restraining bolts or chips they're capable of emotion.
The Clone Army one is pretty important, considering that an afflicted member of the Jedi ordered for it's construction and the Jedi were just like "Well, fuck it." and used it anyway. But in their defense, they were on the losing side at that time, and played right into Palpatine's plan by choosing the easy way.
Losing to what though? The separatists had legitimate grievances and their goal wasnt to take over the galaxy. Only to be allowed to govern themselves. The jedi are the ones who led a raid on a separatist planet after a few of their spies were caught and wouldve been rightfully executed for espionage. War is not supposed to be the jedis job. The republic is supposed to be governed by the people. If the republic cannot muster up troops or sell sending non-slaves into battle for this war then too fucking bad. Let em go. The time to prevent the war was the decades prior when outer rim planets constantly tried to find diplomatic solutions with the inner rim biased senate Instead of a years long bloody war it's a single massacre of some idiot jedi and then peace negotiations between the CIS and republic where the CIS break and form their own republic
@@TheBacknblack92 "and their goal wasnt to take over the galaxy." Perhaps not, but it WAS Palpatine's goal, and he was behind the separatist's movement, using them for his own purposes.
We don’t send kids to war because they aren’t mentally or physically prepared in the way an adult can somewhat prepare themselves for it. The clones were very capable mentally and physically and overly trained. This isn’t a war crime
@@ericrodrigues167 so instead of them being children when entering combat they're forced to train from the time they can walk and mentally programmed to follow orders? thats no better, arguable even worse actually
Amazing, and if Earth(21st century version) is in Star Wars and temporary work with the Jedi during the Clone Wars, high ranking military officers would really deal with these war criminals. Except some crimes the Jedi committed were actually similar to what the nations did, such as funding insurgents(every nation done that in the past so not a big surprise) and/or using illegal weapons(depends on what situation).
The only things that can be truly held against the Jedi are the surrender shennanigans and the occasional torching of civilians. But killing xenos is a priority. Where do your loyalties lie, Allan? And yeah, the ban on weapons in reality is more or less bullshit. The only truly frowned upon weapons are chemical, biological, and nuclear.
I love your videos. You guys are the #1 Star Wars channel ever. I have probably watched almost every one of ur videos. Thanks for the content keep it up!
Anakin did resolve his crimes committed on Alderaan eventually, and removed the illegitimate Government he had helped install… _Changing your worldview_ and making amends is hard, and should be lauded.
@@spetsnatzlegion3366 Oops They really should include the Star as well. "Was that Earth or Yrth?" "Yrth, in the Yatani system, don't want to blow up the wrong planet…"
Awesome points! Makes me think of Sun Tzu, his basic distinctions say don’t fight or every side looses, but if you do fight, there are no rules in war. Since all aspects of the war were generated by a Sith that kept the manipulation going, I’m sure all the weapons of mass destruction and situations where these atrocities could happen wade intentional to further corrupt the Jedi from within their out souls. ... just a thought.
I have to disagree with you on the illegal weapons part. Just because certain weapons are illegal on earth doesn’t mean those same rules apply to the rest of the universe.
That is true, but as far as I remember the use of - lets say biological weapons - is also presented to the viewers as a crime as long as it is done by the "bad guys". So that suggest that (since it was made by humas) the rules of the galaxy far, far away are often very similar to our own. That is of course difficult and in a perfect world-viweing people would have come up with background for such rules and define them. But it is true that I do not think we have an official code of rules of the Republican military...
Also, in very difficult situations during war, you HAVE to use illegal weapons to defeat a particularly tough enemy. For example, during the Last Great Time War (from Doctor Who), the Time Lords had to use all of their forbidden weapons against the Daleks because the Daleks are *that* tough. The Daleks are a literally unbeatable force of nature. So, you'll have to forgive the Separatists and the Republic for using any weapon at either of their disposals to fight each other after conventional weapons seemed to be not enough.
Technically, since Cad Bane was not an enemy combatant or civilian, it wasn't a war crime. He was a criminal. It might have been a crime committed during war, but it was not a war crime. Also, no Sith Lord ever truly surrenders. The Droid Army overthrew the true king of Onderon and put in place a puppet-dictator for Count Dooku. The rebels restored the legitimate government and returned the true king to the throne.
War crimes of the Jedi Order: 1. Obi wan and Anakin wrongly used the Flag of Truce. 2. Mace, Obi wan and Anakin use Force interrogation on Cad Bane. 3. Barris used explosive at the Jedi temple, an act of Terrorism. 4. Use child soldiers. 5. Execution of prisoners, like Anakin and Mace. 6. Funding insurgents such as the Onderon Rebels. 7. Slave army, as in using the Jango clones to fight in the war. 8. Use of illegal weapons(their lightsabers, flamethrowers[yet I think incendiary weapons aren't that illegal on Earth], EMP bomb, etc).
@@luisemoralesfalcon4716 well the Galaxy haven't been in war for a melania and before that they made laws that were illegal to prevent war from happening. I think.
@@luisemoralesfalcon4716 From what I remember in regard to Earth "Illegal or Warcrime" it not just Flamethrower it incendiary weapons but that because the cause needles suffering and weapon that cause needless suffering is consider a warcrime. Though countries sign a UN resolution to ban it in reality not all country sign it, US didn't sign the incendiary weapon treaty but we choose to not use Flamethrower anymore and limit our use of incendiary weapons. Thing that fall under illegal weapon, or atleast something people want to ban also include, landmine, laser that blind people, Poison gas, non-detachable fragment used on weapons sense you can't detect them with X-ray, expanding ordnance liek Hollow Point, poison bullets, Cluster bomb, bio weapon. Tear gas is consider a Warcrime but we use it on civilians. There more stuff if you expand the definition. Like Anti-Vehicle weapon can not be used to shoot people but you can used it to shoot a vehicle with people in it. There lots of rule regarding war but movie an TVshow don't cover it because it effect the action. Weaponizing Weather also illegal. WW1 the Allied consider having a saw on your knife a Warcrime and will just execute soldier that has them. The German though Shotgun was a Warcrime and would do the same. The Medieval age to the American revolution it was though killing generals and officer were a Warcrime but American did it anyway.
Rules of war have nasty habbit of dying the moment one side abandons them. WW2 eastern front is good example, few rules, little mercy for most part. And soviet fanboys shut up about nazi atrocities, soviet soldiers have been accused of killing polish pows in their invasion to poland and provenly did so to finnish pows during winter war. Not always but those cases did happen and even one is too many.
Both sides were equally guilty. The only ‘balanced’ way to view all of this is to take all war crimes committed by both sides into account, not ‘shutting up’ about the crimes of one side and going on and on about those of the other side.
@@901Sherman So I am not allowed to use same argumentation and logic they use, thanks for permission to hammer them twice as hard for denying soviet forces committing any warcrimes or downplaying them in comparison to nazi ones. :D
The clones were technically child combatants as well. If I recall correctly, at the beginning of the war they were only 9 years old. The only life they had experienced was violence and training to kill.
"Y'know, I read those SRR files. For the Greatest Generation, you guys did some nasty stuff." "Yeah, we compromised. Sometimes in ways that made us not sleep so well, but we did it so people could be free. This isn't freedom, this is fear." -Nick Fury and Steve Rogers, Winter Soldier
This makes me curious of what are the Galactic Republic's war crimes since everyone loves to focus on the Separatists' war crimes we hardly see or hear of the other side's crimes.
Well, I think one big one is their use of child soldiers. Even though the Clones have an accelerated growth rate, they're still technically twelve or so years old. Also, it should be noted that it's not just the Jedi who made reckless decisions during the Clone Wars, it was members of the Clone Army, as well. And the reason for this is probably that they're so young when you think about it.
@@DoctorWhoKage Very true and it's so sad in how little rights they had and how manipulated they were. An expandable disposal army full of men who never knew how to live outside of war.
We don’t know what their laws are. We don’t know what a “child” is. We can only assume and, as far as the law is concerned, when you assume, you make an ass out of u and me.
GREAT vid, Thank you Generation Tech! I'm relatively new to your Channels, I've been BINGE watching ALL playlists on both Films, and Tech, really love what you do! Thanks again, and please keep the vids coming!
Alan, you and your crew have reflected on conditions of war and combat, and I must say have consistently evaluated and presented a cogent and balanced arguments that underpin your conclusions. As in this dissertation. I have felt the loss of many of my brothers in arms, and can tell you that my personal view of their demise, the orders followed, the tactics followed that failed and the eventual outcome, despite the employment of the most skilled and accurate piloting skills I could muster, failed outcomes can still leave a man’s soul fractured, ultimately hardening the soul over time. It is only over time with active personal reflection and assessment; seeking meaning as it related to soul growth and life experience that bitterness is dissolved. Man’s inhumanity of man is (I believe) at an end. And thank god for that. Because no man should see the spark of their brothers life leave their eyes. Yes, my heart bleeds for the clone troopers. Thank you for your compassionate and balanced approach to all these discussions. I suspect that you and your crew are light warriors; whether you know it or not. God bless you all. Peace brothers. ☮️🕉
6:02 but did they really surrender?!?! Especially Palpatine because all he says is “I’m too weak, ah, don’t kill me, please” then proceed to shock Mace with his Unlimited Power and send him flying out the Windu
I won’t hold the Jedi for “SOME” of these crimes especially when in the middle of a intense battle, but I do agree with what you say about them commenting the war crimes. Especially when There were better methods they could have used instead.
1: The purpose of the flag of truce is to cease the senseless loss of life in a fruitless battle. Considering that the Separatist Droid Army was not alive, and that Republic forces typically stood between them and a civilian population, I don't think that rule really applies. 2: There is a difference between causing physiological discomfort in someone who regularly engages in physically harmful activities against the innocent, and intends to do so again, and actually maiming them with actual torture. 3: "If a Jedi this is, gone to the dark side they have." -Yoda 4: The Jedi collected their members very young long before war and regularly lead them into dangerous situations. It served the purpose of avoiding attachments, which does come with the risk of being manipulated by a foe, but even that is not a great solution to the issue of raising a superbeing with high moral standards. The Jedi desperately need another solution. 5: The Sith are nigh impossible to hold as prisoners, even for a short time. Apparently the Mandalorians developed and effective means of doing so, but that method was all but forgotten. 6: If the Onderonian regime was supporting the Separatist cause, it is no longer neutral. Employing the people already there who want to overthrow the regime, instead of a massive commitment of your own limited forces, is just good strategy. 7: I'm not sure if the term slave really applies, because for the most part the Clones were not kept there against their will (at least, not until Order 66) (not that they where ever presented a great deal of choice), but the Jedi could have saved themselves a lot of death by asking more questions about where that army came from. But overall the Jedi went out of their way to treat their men with honor and respect, more so perhaps than the rest of the galaxy. If they didn't, Order 66 never would have worked. 8: The EMP bomb was used against machines. There is literally no harm and no foul there. The flamerthrower on the other hand...
Not all separatists are droids, and given the setting, many droids have enough sentience to be counted as "living" beings. In either case, if either side has the ability to surrender, then the act of doing so should be sincere.
1) that is a red herring fallacy. you are justifying a war crime by saying they are the good guys so its ok and avoiding why it is wrong to fake surrender. if you fake surrender the CIS has no reason to ever trust you again and would be justified in whipping you out to the last man if you keep tricking them as they can't trust you 2) red herring again. saying something doesn't hurt as much as what someone else does is not a right to do so. like saying murder is worse then assault they are both still crimes 3) no true scottsman fallacy. darkside or not she still had the title of jedi 4) red herring yet again. just cause that is who they always do things does not justify taking them to war as a child soldier 5) then CIS killing Jedi on the spot is also justified as they are equally as dangerous 6) you just justified the CIS invasion of every republic word as they too support their enemies 7) they were bread for the purpose of war and programmed to do everything they were told without hesitation even matching to their deaths. they are tools used and disposed of as needed Krell being the most extreme example 8) emp still uses radiation and one that big would have major contamination
1) The Separatists were often going to shoot innocent civilians when these things occurred, which is also a war crime. 2) Murder is worse than assault because at least in the later, you come out alive. What, is owning brass knuckles as bad as murder now too? Having them is also a crime. Also, Cad Bane is a bounty hunter who has (and will continue to) hurt innocent people, and he had two infants held hostage. Plus, he was a largely third party profiteer, not aligning himself with either side, so no war crime was committed. 3) If the Jedi Order as a whole did not sanction the act, did not condone the act, and had no knowledge of the act, then it was a single member acting alone, and thus, they were not acting as a Jedi, but as an outsider, a Sith. 4) and this is where cultural value comes into play. The Jedi have been doing this for thousands of years, and the padawan system was around long before the war. 5) Yes, it is justified, as this is war, and Jedi are massive players on the board to take away. 6) It's war. Each side fights to claim land outposts, the Separatists were doing their job as an army trying to win the war by actually fighting. Also, the Separatists also often attacked neutral, non-allied worlds, unlike the Republic. 7) The clones had free will, and some even did desert the army to live normal lives. Krell was a terrible commander, and an asshole, and was also acting on his own goals rather than the goals of the Order. 8) No harmful effects or radiation were shown to be caused by the emp aside from the sinkhole awakening the beast, which would've happened with almost any other large scale weapon. Also, it was tested on living things, and no harmful effects were shown.
@@that1nerd756 1) red herring and very disingenuous. both Anakin and Obi fake surrenders had no civies involved. you you are being dishonest here 2) the law is to protect people regardless if they are "evil" or not. just cause Cad Bane did shady things doesn't mean you can ignore it. the jedi killed Jango Fett's clan that was innocent of all wrong doing before the war so torturing them is also legit then need be 3) no true scottsman fallacy yet again. like when civies where killed in nuam they still part of the military even though not instructed to do so and it still shined poorly on America despite most people being against such things 4) appeal to tradition fallacy. just cause its always been that way doesn't make it legal or right 5) glad we agree on jedi executions on the battle field 6) so we agree again i suppose 7) deserting is illegal and they could go to prison which would have happened to the one clone if Rex turned him in they have fight or go to prison and are even exterminated if deemed unsuitable for duty. Krell showed how they are forced to obey near suicidal orders one after another him being evil has nothing to do with it 8) yes cause radiation kills over night. that's not how that works its slow and could take years like John Wayne when he did a show near a nuclear testing sight took a few decades to do him in
@@mike16apha16 1) When Anakin rammed his Star Destroyer into the blockade, it was so the Republic could get relieve supplies to the planet below, who's people were STARVING and in desperate need of help. 2) There were two INFANTS in danger, that Cad Bane had kidnapped, and he had the records and means to find 100s more. The Jedi were right to do what they did. 3) Let me ask you this, if one day, one of the Supreme Court Judges suddenly snaps and bombs a place, is it the fault of the entire court? No, it was one man, acting alone. Also, your point has little to do with the point I made above. 4) Well, it's clearly not ILLEGAL by their standards, as they have been doing it for over 2000 years, and there is literally no other, better way to do it. There is a reason the Sith haven't become a problem for those 2000 years and why Anakin turned, not taking the children causes their powers to go haywire, and taking them too late gives them time to get attached. 5. It's war, people die. 6. sure sure 7. Again, Krell was a terrible commander, AND he was actively trying to kill the clones. Also, ANY military soldiers are forced to obey commands from up above. 8. There is still no evidence of radiation. If there were signs of radiation, then it most likely would have been mentioned, as radiation is pretty detectable, and we'd most likely hear about serious drawbacks to the weapon.
I used to think of the Jedi as the ultimate good guys, and then I started reading the "Republic Commando" series by Karen Traviss, really changed my perspective
Its because they were written as such. Lucas intentionaly made SW as black and white as possible. But Lucas is not a international lawyer, diplomat or military. So he just wrote "Bad guy go die now" and not research in real life scenarios to fall back on. .
Remember two things:1 1 ) it ain't a warcrime if you're the good guy 2) remember there is not such a thing as "civilians" those are acceptable casualties
Winners write the books, as seen in like every war ever. Think Vietnam - killed a civilian? No, that’s not a civilian it’s a guerilla fighter. That bag of rice definitely had that gun in it when we found the body.
@@spetsnatzlegion3366 That's why historian is such a difficult job, archives for ww1 eastern front are still scares from Russia and for the more recent 2003 Iraqi freedom (remember W.O.M.D = oil) view from the iraqi perspective is still not relevant BTW it was a soviet womble reference
@@bloodangel19 I don't critize any nation, anyone will ever say they've done the right thing. Saying that their nation done something wrong is really hard to say because it can be dangerous for a political leader to do because he will either fall down in the popular opinion. The only known to me time it's been done in my country was when a president said the police helped Nazis rounding up jews and watching camps (oftenly called antichambers of death) before they were sent to extermination camp by train and he did that in the 2000's so 55 years or more after. Only historian want the truth, the whole picture which is always hard to get, war always left shadow area where nothing is known for certain. But if you have recognition from your countries crimes by a politician, please do share. BTW it was a soviet Womble reference
@@maudrysilvain5905 I say this from the perspective of a romanian that studyed this "people", they hate imigrants, tho most of them are imigrants, they value diversity, tho you have to fit their stupid stereotypes, they say they help other nations but they steal and make slaves of the natives, and many others, pleas share your opinoin
@@TheAnimationStationTAS Tell that the people of the Sith after the Great Hyperspace War. Oh, wait, I remember. This is hardly possible, since there are none left after the Republican Soldiers and the Jedi murdered them all.
War crimes… What about fashion crimes? You should only wear Jedi robes in the comfort of your own studio, not at formal events, and definately not at a bar or a battlefield. They are loungewear - and the Jedi are not _the Dude…_
Oh, you don't understand, the Jedi ARE "the Dude" just add a chad voice and some things just make more sense "Duuuddddeeee, just be one with the force man, don't sweat all the big stuff, lets just spread good vibes man" XD
The clothing the Jedi wore was supposed to be to show they were humble, as when they first became standard wear for Jedi it would have been something the poorest of the galaxy would have worn. (But the boots always gave them away apparently) The tunics were also supposed to be rather uncomfortable which was spun as teaching young jedi how to ignore physical discomfort.
@@englishlady9797 yes. That crime is why she was expelled. But it was by a rogue member against itself. If a colonel knowingly sent a unit into an ambush that would be treason, but not a war crime by the nation he betrayed.
This I've always wondered what it would be like if they were commanded by actually qualified and experienced military generals They probably wouldn't be fucking thrown at the enemy, lol
Yeah, the EMP bomb fiasco, well, how were they supposed to know that a Zillo Beast was underground and still alive? Being a tad too harsh, don't you think?
important video. The popularity of Science Fiction can lead many to presume the rules that prevail in a galaxy far away are comparable to those that are appropriate in real life. Its important to remember that everything is not as clear cut as the war against the sith and that people who die in real wars are not just clones and droids. thank you.
Dr. Boring so the empire won? Or would you consider the brief battle between the ghost crew the left over droids from the war the end of the war as I do?
Dr. Boring ah yeah I gotcha. Still like to think Rex ended the clone war officially with that droid general though then the empire showed up and kicked them both off world lol
The thing about dooku is he wasn't captured he was subdued on an enemy flag ship. Escorting the chancellor out was a chore and he was willingly coming with them but dooku could slip away at any moment making taking him alive an extremely high risk decision that could cost many lives down the road.
![Kodak Black - Catch Fire [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/A4ch-olIuZo/mqdefault.jpg)
Even though he was a traitor, I would have included Krell as a war criminal. Not just for wasting the lives of his troops, but mainly for ordering his troops against each other.
Agree.
Yep
Yes it is a good thing the Jedi were mostly executed by the Clone Army for committing war crimes
Violations of law against your own forces are not war crimes, they are ordinary crimes under your own domestic laws. :)
Anslem-colin Campbell-Cook the only Jedi I saw actually care about their clones they lead into battle were Anakin and Obi Wan Kenobi
I'm disagreeing with the EMP Bomb, that one was an attempt not to commit war crimes. It just had a side effect of awaking the ZIllow Beast. It honestly worked and that weapon should have become a standard first strike weapon as it only harmed electronics.
People who have a pacemaker implanted may disagree with you.
@@СергейПанферов-й5х it might have been an obsolete technology with bacta and other SW biotech, don't ya think?
I do know what nuclear warheads, while able to be manufactured in the Star Wars Universe like candy, are not a widely produced weapon due to the high energy of turbo lasers. Steam engines are the most powerful type of engine known to practical science (extremely high torque), but due to their slow rotational speeds, are the last choice when it comes to the making of vehicles like cars. It is for this reason the majority of the world knows that steam engines exist, but don't give them any thought other than "Old and broken"
Turbo lasers are high energy weapons that have no side-effects lie radiation and cancer. That alone might be the reason why nuclear weapons and EMP devices are not used more often. EMP is a side-effect of nuclear detonations, after all. a normal EMP blast would be purely electromagnetic and have no mushroom cloud. This implies to me that the EMP bomb used in the Clone wars was a small scale nuclear device.
Star wars hospitals disagree with you.
What about people in vehicles while in dangerous environments? Such as planes, ships, submarines, wtc
Funny how often Anakin is involved with these war crimes.
*ironic*
aviatorEngineer
Especially since he went on to commit another one in season 7
Maybe he isn't as righteous as he thinks he is
Anakin would never commit war crimes, he's far too kind. He'd never hurt a fly, he isn't the type.
Well, I mean, he was pretty much a Sith in the making. Sooooo......
Jedi:
"I surrender!"
Everyone Else:
"Suuuure."
Pretty much this. I wonder if Anakin and Obi-Wan's bullshit actually caused any Jedi who were surrendering legitimately to just have their request denied (you know, if it was even limited to Obi-Wan and Anakin)
Ahh shit, here we go again
@@ixarofthebargains493
Considering they kept falling for Anakin and Obi-Wan doing it, I'm wagering very few.
Remember guys is not war crime if you do it in the name of the god emporor.
@@helsreach8954 You fool! You must correct your heresy and maybe you can be forgiven. And use big G in the name.
Who is here after Anakin pulled another one in episode 9 of season 7?
The Flag of truce rule breaking espically against sentiment beings enraged me so much. I may be a bit more forgiving if it’s against driods but still it’s very dishonorable
You mean the false surrender one?
Aiden Lucky777 yes
Aiden Lucky777
He learnt that from Kenobi ;)
I have come to surrender
I think the Jedi have always had a blindspot where the plight of the clones is concerned, because the ideals instilled in the clones by the kaminoans are so similar to their own.
Both are raised in these cultures from birth with no real outside perspective. Both are likewise trained to be ready for battle as early as possible (see Jedi 5 yr olds doing saber training). Both are told to serve the needs of the Republic over themselves, neither is allowed possessions. Pretty sure I could go on.
Is it any wonder the Jedi don't see anything wrong with the Clone army?
I got it to 66 likes. Heh
And if we add to this that the Jedi could not leave the order, and that the Padawans called their teacher "master", it very hinted that the Jedi were as free as all the slaves in the Old Republic.
@@СергейПанферов-й5х they could leave the order actually. However they had no choice about joining it and they had nothing if they left. No credits, no home, nothing. Which is also how slaves were kept in check. Without the slavery they didn't have food water or shelter.
Acceptable Casualties mate warcrimes don't exist!
The Jedi saw the clones more as people than anyone else. The problem is the government owns the clones and is also in charge of the Jedi. So even if the Jedi said they wouldn't be generals, the Republic was going to use them anyway. All the questions he poses in the video are the responsibility of the government. The government run by people who don't even want to fight their own war. I mean the Jedi encouraged great individuality in the clones. It was the rest of the galaxy who saw them as little more than organic droids. So this to me is a crime against the Republic and Senate, not the Jedi.
*waves hand*
“These are not the war crimes you’re looking for. You want to investigate General Grievous instead. Move along.”
Now I want a video that lists every war crime committed by grievous
LMAO
These are not the war crimes I am looking for. I want to investigate general grievous instead.
We want to investigate General Grievous instead
Nice one! But technicaly, Griveous was brainwashed, so his actions were highly infulenced by his new state of mind. I do not believe him to be so cold and cruel before the transformation.
"It's not a war crime if you make it look good"
-Captain Fordo
Actually?
@@theotakuking4136 yes he said that
@@clone9159 where did he say it? A comic or in a spin off?
@@theotakuking4136 In a comic, my nephew showed me it, so I don't know which comic. He may say it in the show.
i'm gonna need a full reference on that one chief
You forgot one crucial detail:
It's only a war crime if you lose.
Cough cough allies in WWII
@Special Bronze war crimes as a concept was only in its infancy. At that time period. And you'll find both sides didnt really do anything vastly different from each other or unusual in warfare at the time.
@Special Bronze I extremely disagree with. I challenge you to find systemic, or leadership directed war crimes, that were actual crimes at the time and not later, and not isolated examples of some individual or unit.
@Special Bronze Americans are not the only perps of war crimes. To me small unit issues are somewhat irrelevant to the conduct of the nation of a whole. When looking at the macro scale.
@Special Bronze your getting way off topic. War crimes in any function and size are terrible. Just basically my point is that small unit isolated crimes are basically a natural by product of war and are incredibly common. But WWI is conflict remarkably free of major human rights violations.
Funding insurgencies: is a war crime
The CIA: 😥
Such an underrated comment.
The CIA: *I WILL MAKE IT LEGAL*
Goes to show all these conventions are b.s. The powerful do as they like, independetly of rules.
They are only insurgents from the enemy perspective. Technically the colonists were insurgents until we won then we were revolutionarys. The confederacy had succeeded from the union but they lost so they were rebels and traitors. Those titles are all meaningless until the winner is decided or their is a faction in ckntrol of the situation/media.
"Physical and psychological torture are frowned upon"
The CIA: "haha waterboard machine go brrrrrr"
*Everytime I get drunk*
Me: You know, the Jedi are basically terrorists
Everyone: Not againnnnnnn
Same
@Victor Nikolai moreover should fxxx all force users so no more cults creating Jedi nor Sith in Star Wars.
Haha, yes! This is just like me in every Star Wars related thread on reddit.
_"The Jedi believe in a mystical prophecy about restoring balance to the force, and their narrow minded definition of balance is the complete and utter destruction of the Sith. How can you support a religious extremist organisation whose stated goal is the violent annihilation of people they've unilaterally labeled heretics, and who have in the past both successfully commited and unsuccessfully attempted genocide? The Separatists merely want the right of self-determination, to leave the Republic, and you're siding with the Jedi who field armies of slave soldiers against people seeking freedom in order to preserve and perpetuate Republic political hegemony in the galaxy? That's fucked!"_
People get very upset. They're really invested in maintaining the naive black-and-white narrative of the Jedi as these ultimate good guys whose actions are always justified and anyone who goes against them, or who they go against, is therefore by definition evil.
@Victor Nikolai i hope you say the same thing about the sith
@@axebearer in all fairness though the separatist did their fair share of awful actions, doesn't matter if it involves the civilians of the separatist or not.
Generation Tech: “For this Palm Sunday we bring you... War Crimes! Yay!”
May the peace and joy of Christ be with you during this holy week
War Crime = Best Crime
Goddamn, I love war crimes.
Holy hecc Sharpe guy
Palm Sunday? Think you mean calm
The Jedi temple is a legal target.
Customary international law would classify the Jedi order as a paramilitary organization, not a civilian organization.
The use of the Jedi temple as a paramilitary training facility and a fortified assembly area for combatants is inconsistent with any claim of protected status.
CULT COUGH, CULT
That seems to be a poor argument. The Jedi are not paramilitary in any conventional sense- they are not a military force first and foremost, they are instead a religious (well, at least mystic) organization that had a large number of members deputized into the leadership of the GAR. Second, the Temple is at least partially a school, which would imply protected status.
@@patrickbuerke1390 The Jedi would be accurately classified as a paramilitary or semi-military organization. They function as a highly trained police force in peacetime and have been mobilized to fight in an armed conflict on behalf of a government.
Are their spiritual beliefs relevant to their status as combatants? No. Not really.
Also, the Jedi order's failure to separate combatant and non-combatant functions does not make its facilities protected by international law. The Jedi order has a legal and moral obligation not to use these non-combatants as human shields.
@@patrickbuerke1390 I disagree. The temple has armed clones and gunships in the hangars as well as a war room to lead the armies of the republic
im gonna say if they used the temple as a school, or for worship,- then ANY use of it in a military sense as in training, command and control etc COULD put them right there with Al-Queda / ISIS using schools/churches to do the the same.
LOTS OF GREY AREA IN WAR. speaking of grey......Kreia is best jedi ever
With Cad Bane (spelling?), it wasn't a war crime as Bane wasn't at war with the Jedi, nor they with him. He was a criminal and was being interrogated in the Jedi's role as law enforcement. They instead committed a civil rights violation.
One of many to come....
Cad bane was acting as a military contractor. He was hired by the separatists making him an enemy combatant and their actions war crimes
Jedi be like, Geneva convention? More like Geneva suggestion
I’ve seen these way too much XD
Tank fish goes brrrr
More like Geonosian Destruction
Just like China, Russia, France and the United States haven't signed all parts of the convention LOL. All hell breaks loose there are no rules but win at any cost.
This message has ben sponsored by The angry short moustache man
Hmm, break the Geneva convention I must
Commit mass genocide, I will
Geneva wouldn't exist for a long time
@@arcadeinvader8086 Okay? The Jedi probably do have a geneva convention, just less restricting considering they are a group of smart people.
@@asianlifter My point was that since this takes place "a long time ago" Geneva wouldn't be settled for a long time
@@arcadeinvader8086 Okay, but I dont know why that needs to be brought up.
Alan, I'd like to place an objection on Anakin being guilty of a war crime by killing Count Dooku after he had surrendered. Anakin was technically acting on a General Order which came from the Head of State of the Republic Chancellor Palpatine himself. As the Supreme Chancellor who is given emergency powers by the Senate during a time of war Palpatine was well within the realm of legality and had the proper authority to order the execution of a prisoner of war. Now from a moral standpoint I agree that what Anakin did was wrong.
The ol' _"I was just following orders"_ defense didn't fly for the Nazis though, so neither should it be accepted for the Jedi.
Rawtheran and in mace’s case, he did just witness palpatine murder 3 Jedi when they were trying to arrest him
@@axebearer I realize that in our world and in our universe both the Jedi and the Separtists would be guilty of war crimes. The point of view in which I'm coming from is that in the Star Wars Universe killing Count Dooku would not be considered a war crime in the eyes of either the Republic or the Separtists. Neither side had negotiated terms for the treatment of prisoners of war or were bound by a treaty on how to conduct warfare like nations in our world are.
@@jakealter5504 This is true. Mace could have easily argued self defense in a Supreme Court trial especially since Palpatine was the one who attacked first
Rawtheran exactly
Personally I disagree with
3. Barris had gone rogue from the order, and as such the order shouldn't be held responsible for her actions
6. Onderons legitimate government had been brought down by a coup, as such helping insurgents reinstate the rightful government is not a war crime.
8. If lightsabers were illegal by galactic laws I dont think that the Jedi would have been allowed to use them for over 10000 years. Agree with the flamethrowers. No one could have known that the EMP Bomb could awake space Godzilla, I dont believe that a EMP bomb would be illegal against the droid army.
He didn't say that the lightsabers were the problem. On the contrary, they were used as an example for what the jedi supposedly believed in. He specifically said that they are a defensive weapon.
Hmm I disagree on flamethrowers because it’s usually a situational weapon and maybe it’s because I have a personal love for things being on fire. For as it is written, “Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.”
I mean the EMP bomb did collapse a sinkhole, if it can do that then i think that would certainly mean it could damage some surroundings
And it's not just droids it disables, it disables all electronics, just keep that in mind
@@Cpt_Boony_Hat Yeah, they'll also be in unnecessary pain and agony for the rest of their life too, I still think flamethrowers or other flame-based weapons should not be used against organic beings
Spartan War118 laughs in Yogurt, SPACE BALLS THE FLAMETHROWER
To be fair. After Windu had disarmed Palpatine he did say "You are Under Arrest" and Palpatine just tried to blast him with Lightning. By your and all accounts, Windu isn't really wrong for considering then attempting to kill Palpatine as he might try that same trick again
Also Windu is very much not wrong, Palpatine IS too dangerous to be left alive.
@@selonianth Windu tried a political coup and failed, hes a terrorist.
@@ThisNameIsBanned No, Windu tried to arrest a traitor and Sith Lord, which itself is illegal believe it or not.
@@selonianth it legally wasn't illegal to be a sith lord just frowned upon
@@selonianth He tried to arrest a Sith. No mention of treason was made and the Republic had no laws against being a Sith. It's a very clear example of the Jedi ignoring their own teachings in pursuit of personal goals.
Yoda: "Committed War crimes on Yavin, i have."
Well if you think about it, Luke killed nearly a million people when be blew up the Death Star. Not a war crime, but it might actually give him a higher kill count than daddy Vader.
@@englishlady9797 There could have been civilians onboard, families visiting onboard the station could have gotten caught into the attack, yet idk if families could come onto the DS
@@josten8044 i don't think they could, the death star was supposed to be a top secret project
DS was the size of a small moon wouldnt be surprised if there was nearly a billion people on it
@@mandolorian162 nintendo ds
Alan talking about roasting geinosians being bad, yet before he said beings with a hive mind should be nuked
And that after I watched a video about the most brutal clone deaths where the kidnapping of these clones was ranked as second most brutal
Hmm contradictory
Geonosians aren't a hive mind.
@@firewolfandrewb They are really close tho
@@Aidan-zc8wx They seem like a hive mind due to their incredibly strict hierarchy, but each Geonosian is actually it's own individual. That's actually a part of why Geonosis has it's gladiatorial arenas, low class Geonosians will fight in them to win their freedom and a chance at joining the nobility.
The jedi really lost their way during the clone wars. Great video
I think that was the point of the Prequel. The idea that a religious order would be corrupted once it become subservient to the Government and Government interest, instead of the force.
In the comic and book you could see them being misleaded by Government to do horrible stuff. Like the conflict between General Grievous people was because a Republic planet told the Republic that they were being invaded by a Warlord but didn't told them it was because they tried to invade and enslave them. The conflict with Jango Fett was because a Planet Governor lied to them saying they were the bad guys but infact he was the bad guy.
Then eventually people brought in the Grey Jedi idea then it became the Jedi were always out of balance and wrong, in doing so they lost certain things. Where before that was not the overall message of the Jedi and the Force but how the Jedi should service the force and not government.
I think they lost their way when they murdered the original jedai and created the sith
The thing is, which side are you picking if you were in the war?
_ TILUX_ I’d live in the old republic era with the great galactic war and pick the sith empire. Put me in intelligence or the sith order, we’ll crush the Jedi filth!
@@xenon8117 Not before dying to your Sith superiors
Well done. Krell's actions would've been considered, despite him being a traitor. attempted assassination of Dooku would count.
Brian Runyon hah I see what ya did there dooku, count. Unless that wasn’t a joke.
Though if I remember, the assassination attempt on dooku was done by nightsisters posing as Jedi though which one are you referring to?
@@nicholashill6314 The novel Dark Disciple. The Jedi Council authorized the attempt.
@@brianrunyon266
And why is assassination of opposition military leaders illegal?
@@jorenvanderark3567 Yeah, i'm kinda wondering that too since literal U.N. nations regualrly assassinate rival generals.
Remember that time Mace Windu and his troops posed as refugees, and then took over a city from the inside?
Because of the clone’s accelerated growth rate, they too could be considered child soldiers.
If it's child slave soldiers the 2 war crimes cancel each other out.
They should definitely be considered slaves
I was wondering where are using child soldiers would be ranked and just before I hit play I remembered the surrender shenanigans Obi-Wan and Aniken pulled
Aniken?
@@ahsokatano5498 autoCorrect is a pain in the ass
What?????
@@sadturtle540 Haha
Also, they sent Ahsoka. She's around 14 during the clone wars or somewhere there. Basically a child. War crime spotted
“Mace Windu almost executes Chancellor Palpatine after he surrenders as well” come on now, he was just pretending to be helpless cause Anakin walked in, he clearly wasn’t surrendering. If anything it was an act of false surrender like Obi-Wans bs parlay on Christophsis
This does not matter. Yes, Palpatine was faking, but even if Mace knew this to be true (which is debatable), killing a foe who surrenders is strictly prohibited by the Jedi Code. Actually, killing in any case but self-defense is strictly prohibited by the Jedi Code, yet the Jedi continously break this rule willfully and conciously.
He was too dangerous to be kept alive
@@hallamhal Doesn't matter, still a hard violation of the Jedi Code.
@@DraculaCronqvist Killing Palpatine would absolutely have been self-defense. If you watch the scene closely, it actually starts with Palp *attacking* Mace Windu with the intent of killing him. They in turn just wanted to arrest him but after he attacked, there was no way for them (or after a while only Windu) to do that. Imo Windu must've been aware that Palpatine was still dangerous to him
@@taran99y96 This is factually untrue. Palpatine was disarmed and his lightning attack ended in failure. Although Palpatine was faking his weakness, Windu had no way of knowing so and attempted to kill somebody whom he had supposedly completely beaten. No, it was not self-defense. It would have been self-defense had he cut down Palpatine mid-battle. Windu broke the code blatantly and fully.
Think about it, Star Wars is before the geneva convention, therefore no one committed a war crime.
lol
good point. it does say "a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away" in the prologue
Star Wars is supposed to be the future Milky Way told as a story in another galaxy in an even more distant future.
But the Yavin convention exists and is canon. It’s not detailed but you can probably theorize that is the same as the Geneva convention.
For that matter neither the Galactic Republic nor the Jedi Council signed the Geneva Convention so they aren't accountable to its rules.
Anakin's interrogation of Poggle when trying to stop the brain worm infection definitely counted as a war crime as well.
"What warcrimes did the Jedi commit?"
me:Yes
Can a geonosian soldier drone be considered an Individual? Pro: They are a physically separate entity from their hive, and as such can have differring political views from their Queen. Cons: they are living in the superorganism "hive", and as such are unable to be considered separate enough.
Would members of the last geonosian queen's hive be considered sentient?
@@ratbat1072 You mean the ones killed by the Empire?
@@vukodlak3962
The ones that were part droid
A geonosian drone may be similar to an ant. Ants are capable of functioning independently from the hive colony, but ultimately desire to serve under a queen. Ants have been known to serve different queens over their lifetime, and have been known to be conquered by neighboring hives to serve under their queen. Drones are incapable of reproduction, so it is likely that the death of a drone is of insignificant economic impact.
The moral implications are very different, but also very troubling. Geonosian drones have the intelligence to manufacture droids and design super weapons, so the genesis of new thoughts and ideas is prevalent among them.
We live in a society. Is it really so different from a Geonosian hive?
We have Poggle and we have that one Geonosian in Rebels, i think they’ve shown to be independent enough to be deserving of the rights owed to sapient beings.
Anakin, yeah that was a screw up with Dooku. Palpatine, on the other hand, had no intention of surrendering. Teaching rebels isn't a war crime. Sorry, it just isn't. Everyone does it. And the original king of Onderon was deposed by a Separatist coup.
That feeling you get when the "rebels" are teenagers.....
@@nigredoooalgown6245 most of americans founding fathers were in their early twenties during the declaration of independence
Troysdownfall and yet today protestors and young people looking to overhaul a system which has failed them are looked down upon and “troublemakers”
I fought in many wars. I’m a veteran of the Emu War. These Emu‘s are unbeatable
You think Emu's are tough? Try fighting those goddamn Sparrow's!
Generation Tech: "'Most' developed countries had developed guidelines for what kinds of methods are acceptable for extracting information"
The US Fed Gov: lol hold my beer
Do you honestly believe other countries don't use torture? Or our enemies? I say torture the enemy for information if it will save innocent lives
No we clearly have guidelines... we just ignore them.
@@mistermustacheguy2763 Yeah, what America does is nothing compared to what would happen to an American in the middle east.
@@Swearengen1980 still doesn't make it right and frankly it's a big spotlight on how ineffective the Geneva convention really is when you have countries like America , China Russia picking and choosing what to follow
@@kurtpunchesthings2411 Reality: There's no right or wrong in war. It's all ugly. There are winners and losers, the strong and the weak. Can't handle it, find your safe space and hide away until the strong find you.
The padawans weren't the only child soldiers, the clones were technically only teenagers due to their accelerated growth.
I have reason to believe that Generation Tech is under the control of a Sith Lord
I know my penis is small, but A Sith Lord?
I have no idea what u are talking about
What if they are the imposter?
The Senate I forgot. Someone wrote a joke about smol pp, I think.
@@jeronimoepic2946 Not yet
The obi wan one was just what Padmé would call aggressive negotiations
1:42-Obi-Wan doesn't halt the Separatists, he distracts their general, but the battle is still going on in the background. They're still advancing as the talks go on.
4:34-You cannot judge the order based on the actions of a rogue member. Barriss Offee does not represent the Jedi in this event.
5:50-To be fair, that order came directly from the Supreme Chancellor, the Commander-in-Chief of the Grand Army of the Republic. No one disobeys an order from the Commander-in-Chief.
6:01-Palpatine never surrendered and, being a Sith with force lightning, was still dangerous in that situation.
6:29-Also technically, the government of Onderon was not the legitimate government, but a Separatist puppet government.
7:06-That parallels the IRA. They started out as rebels fighting for Irish independence, but are now terrorists, not rebels. What happened to Saw is not on the Jedi.
8:42-The Jedi did form bonds with their clones and furthermore, I doubt anyone was planning for after the Clone Wars, except for Palpatine. The Clones were not slaves. They were men, not droids.
10:06-What about the illegal and dangerous weapons used by the Separatists, such as the Malevolence or the Blue Shadow Virus? If we want to hold the Republic accountable, shouldn't we also hold the Separatists accountable?
This is by far the best analysis in the comments!
Especially when you take the old adage "One mans freedom fighter is another man's terrorist" then that makes Saw a bit more sympathetic. I'll be honest that I don't know what the full situation was here but lets consider that the Empire wasnt exactaly "legitimate" and was planning on using a planet destroying superweapon that could produce more raw power than if every nuke on Earth went off at once, I don't think a couple of raids on Imperial supply lines and patrols is too much.
so, basically, in the first one it was separatists who commited war crime.
About your last point this is just stating the Jedi war crimes not the separatist war crimes. Just because the Japanese committed terrible war crimes doesn’t mean the Americans aren’t also accountable to their own crimes.
Gideon Thangcin history is Written by the victors and who are the victorious the ones that lived
I think its important to remember, as Revenge of the Sith points out, that when the Clone War is in full swing, there are heroes on both sides. By default, that also means there are villains on both sides too.
Who’s a hero on the evil side?
@@Ray-Bedrock-Edition-17.23 whats the evil side, from your point of view?
@@maxheinrichliebow are you saying that “from a certain point of view” there are heroes on the evil side? Because in the same text, directly following there are heroes on both sides, it states, “Evil is everywhere.” So… from an unbiased perspective, there aren’t any heroes on the evil side.
@@Ray-Bedrock-Edition-17.23 there is no unbiased perspective during war. Thats the issue. When people on one side triumph, there is applause and cheer. And hope. When the people on the other side triumph, there is applause and cheer. And hope. What is heroism? Its going above and beyond for your cause, risking a lot, and fighting on despite the barriers. Its only politics that create a divide between which side thinks itself more noble than the other... so sadly, what we might deem evil, may not be deemed evil by the side we think is evil, because what we think is not the be all and end all of wider thought and perspective.
@@maxheinrichliebow I see.
Palpatine didn't surrender though, Windu kept telling him to surrender and even though he did aim to end his life, Palpatine never once said "I surrender."
Palpatine is also a sith meaning that even without a weapon he was still an active threat due to force powers.
I think that the Jedi's use of the EMP weapon at the Battle of Malastare is acceptable as the droids are not sentient (although that does create issues), and it is no different to the use of nuclear ordanance. It could also be argued that by destroying the droid army it prevented them from conquering the planet and causing pain and destruction
@個個都你老婆，那你有冇愛滋 I mean, it's called human rights for a reason
the droids could be called sentient though, they are capable of independent thought and when not restrained by restraining bolts or chips they're capable of emotion.
Droids are sentient
The Clone Army one is pretty important, considering that an afflicted member of the Jedi ordered for it's construction and the Jedi were just like "Well, fuck it." and used it anyway. But in their defense, they were on the losing side at that time, and played right into Palpatine's plan by choosing the easy way.
Losing to what though? The separatists had legitimate grievances and their goal wasnt to take over the galaxy. Only to be allowed to govern themselves. The jedi are the ones who led a raid on a separatist planet after a few of their spies were caught and wouldve been rightfully executed for espionage.
War is not supposed to be the jedis job. The republic is supposed to be governed by the people. If the republic cannot muster up troops or sell sending non-slaves into battle for this war then too fucking bad. Let em go. The time to prevent the war was the decades prior when outer rim planets constantly tried to find diplomatic solutions with the inner rim biased senate
Instead of a years long bloody war it's a single massacre of some idiot jedi and then peace negotiations between the CIS and republic where the CIS break and form their own republic
@@TheBacknblack92 "and their goal wasnt to take over the galaxy." Perhaps not, but it WAS Palpatine's goal, and he was behind the separatist's movement, using them for his own purposes.
The Jedi chose the quick and easy path .... and became agents of evil.
Not to mention the clones are literally 10 years old.
Darthchu48 Darth ok yes but technically they are 20
We don’t send kids to war because they aren’t mentally or physically prepared in the way an adult can somewhat prepare themselves for it. The clones were very capable mentally and physically and overly trained. This isn’t a war crime
Eric Rodrigues I can agree with that statement but the fact that the clones are still ten can raise some eyebrows.
In some cases such as the centax II clones were one when they first entered the front lines
@@ericrodrigues167 so instead of them being children when entering combat they're forced to train from the time they can walk and mentally programmed to follow orders? thats no better, arguable even worse actually
Doesn’t Asoka use her lightsaber to threaten a prisoner in an interrogation?
Asoka is still an apprentice, so she would make mistakes like that.
*Ashoka
@Zachary Puthuff actually it's "female jedi number 3"
Zachary Puthuff woooosh
@@DiogoJ1 doesn't matter
everyone when the jedi take childs into their order: oh no how cruel
meanwhile the empire killing force sensitive children..
Perhaps the same can be said of all religions.
@@DarkAdonisVyers your words are as empty as your SOUL
did you know that the jedi did also commit genocide to a whole race and wiped them out
@Alfredo Latouche those aren'species
@Gaius Wyrden what
Amazing, and if Earth(21st century version) is in Star Wars and temporary work with the Jedi during the Clone Wars, high ranking military officers would really deal with these war criminals. Except some crimes the Jedi committed were actually similar to what the nations did, such as funding insurgents(every nation done that in the past so not a big surprise) and/or using illegal weapons(depends on what situation).
The only things that can be truly held against the Jedi are the surrender shennanigans and the occasional torching of civilians. But killing xenos is a priority. Where do your loyalties lie, Allan? And yeah, the ban on weapons in reality is more or less bullshit. The only truly frowned upon weapons are chemical, biological, and nuclear.
@@nmkasprkasprowicz4615 To my knowledge Chemical and Biological weapon were used by the Sith and Separatist. Nukes were used by Mandalorians.
*cough* al quaeda *cough*
CW S7 spoiler below:
I love how right after I watch this I see Anakin use the Exact same War Crime Obiwan did casually in S7 E9
old palps didn't surrender, he was still trying to unlimited power Master Windu out the window
But windu didnt know that, and he thought palps was surrendering
@@arty217 Remember, Windu is a Jedi, and he could use some telepathic bs right there.
@@arty217 Yes, yes he did know that.
Counter to this video: there is no Geneva convention in space
I can assure you that Anakin committed more War Crimes than literally every other Jedi Combined
I love your videos. You guys are the #1 Star Wars channel ever. I have probably watched almost every one of ur videos. Thanks for the content keep it up!
Anakin did resolve his crimes committed on Alderaan eventually, and removed the illegitimate Government he had helped install…
_Changing your worldview_ and making amends is hard, and should be lauded.
Not alderaan, onderon. Different planet.
@@spetsnatzlegion3366 Oops
They really should include the Star as well.
"Was that Earth or Yrth?"
"Yrth, in the Yatani system, don't want to blow up the wrong planet…"
Dude it was aldaraan
@@SouthpawGaming112 Onderon is the place of Saw's rebels. Alderaan is the place of Bail Organa
Vader disagreed with the decision to destroy alderaan
Would it be considered a crime to _use the Force_ to get the last pack of toilet paper rolls on the shelf?
Nooo....
Only retards go for the toilet paper.
This is not the pack of toilet paper you are looking for......🖐
@Sightless_Seeker According to Disney, the force is female. So, it isn't gay if you are a boy.
Don't use too much force or you'll need more toilet paper 😂
"Physical and psychological torture is frowned upon"
CIA and FBI: "haha water boarding go brrrrrrrr"
Awesome points! Makes me think of Sun Tzu, his basic distinctions say don’t fight or every side looses, but if you do fight, there are no rules in war. Since all aspects of the war were generated by a Sith that kept the manipulation going, I’m sure all the weapons of mass destruction and situations where these atrocities could happen wade intentional to further corrupt the Jedi from within their out souls. ... just a thought.
I have to disagree with you on the illegal weapons part. Just because certain weapons are illegal on earth doesn’t mean those same rules apply to the rest of the universe.
That is true, but as far as I remember the use of - lets say biological weapons - is also presented to the viewers as a crime as long as it is done by the "bad guys". So that suggest that (since it was made by humas) the rules of the galaxy far, far away are often very similar to our own. That is of course difficult and in a perfect world-viweing people would have come up with background for such rules and define them.
But it is true that I do not think we have an official code of rules of the Republican military...
Marc Bartuschka I was thinking more, flamethrowers and cluster bombs.
Also, in very difficult situations during war, you HAVE to use illegal weapons to defeat a particularly tough enemy. For example, during the Last Great Time War (from Doctor Who), the Time Lords had to use all of their forbidden weapons against the Daleks because the Daleks are *that* tough. The Daleks are a literally unbeatable force of nature. So, you'll have to forgive the Separatists and the Republic for using any weapon at either of their disposals to fight each other after conventional weapons seemed to be not enough.
Force Interrogation is however perfectly acceptable at Guantanamo Bay…
_[replies should be fun]_
USA doesn't really adhere to those laws.
*FBI wants to know your location, turn location on*
Oh god no
“I am the Senate.”
Ryan C no
"It is our duty to hold them up to the standards of galactic law."
Seriously, fr tho.
"toilet paper riots are peak fight for survival" whew lad do i have news for you
Technically, since Cad Bane was not an enemy combatant or civilian, it wasn't a war crime. He was a criminal. It might have been a crime committed during war, but it was not a war crime.
Also, no Sith Lord ever truly surrenders.
The Droid Army overthrew the true king of Onderon and put in place a puppet-dictator for Count Dooku. The rebels restored the legitimate government and returned the true king to the throne.
Apparently, no Jedi ever does, either.
krell should have been on the list for actrily trying to get as many of HIS OWN soldiers killed during the battle of umbara
Except that is just the criminal act of murder. Not a war crime.
War crimes of the Jedi Order:
1. Obi wan and Anakin wrongly used the Flag of Truce.
2. Mace, Obi wan and Anakin use Force interrogation on Cad Bane.
3. Barris used explosive at the Jedi temple, an act of Terrorism.
4. Use child soldiers.
5. Execution of prisoners, like Anakin and Mace.
6. Funding insurgents such as the Onderon Rebels.
7. Slave army, as in using the Jango clones to fight in the war.
8. Use of illegal weapons(their lightsabers, flamethrowers[yet I think incendiary weapons aren't that illegal on Earth], EMP bomb, etc).
Why are flamethrower, EMP and sweet lightsabers illegal weapons?
@@luisemoralesfalcon4716 well the Galaxy haven't been in war for a melania and before that they made laws that were illegal to prevent war from happening. I think.
@@luisemoralesfalcon4716 From what I remember in regard to Earth "Illegal or Warcrime" it not just Flamethrower it incendiary weapons but that because the cause needles suffering and weapon that cause needless suffering is consider a warcrime. Though countries sign a UN resolution to ban it in reality not all country sign it, US didn't sign the incendiary weapon treaty but we choose to not use Flamethrower anymore and limit our use of incendiary weapons.
Thing that fall under illegal weapon, or atleast something people want to ban also include, landmine, laser that blind people, Poison gas, non-detachable fragment used on weapons sense you can't detect them with X-ray, expanding ordnance liek Hollow Point, poison bullets, Cluster bomb, bio weapon. Tear gas is consider a Warcrime but we use it on civilians.
There more stuff if you expand the definition. Like Anti-Vehicle weapon can not be used to shoot people but you can used it to shoot a vehicle with people in it. There lots of rule regarding war but movie an TVshow don't cover it because it effect the action.
Weaponizing Weather also illegal.
WW1 the Allied consider having a saw on your knife a Warcrime and will just execute soldier that has them. The German though Shotgun was a Warcrime and would do the same.
The Medieval age to the American revolution it was though killing generals and officer were a Warcrime but American did it anyway.
@@Underworlddream Except China.
@@pyeitme508 War doesn't care about a millennia of "peace" where slavers and pirates ruled.
Rules of war have nasty habbit of dying the moment one side abandons them. WW2 eastern front is good example, few rules, little mercy for most part.
And soviet fanboys shut up about nazi atrocities, soviet soldiers have been accused of killing polish pows in their invasion to poland and provenly did so to finnish pows during winter war. Not always but those cases did happen and even one is too many.
Lets not forget the massive rape of German females from toddlers to grannies by the Russian Army.
@@dustyrussell6939 Shhhh, people don't like uncomfortable truths
Both sides were equally guilty. The only ‘balanced’ way to view all of this is to take all war crimes committed by both sides into account, not ‘shutting up’ about the crimes of one side and going on and on about those of the other side.
@@901Sherman So I am not allowed to use same argumentation and logic they use, thanks for permission to hammer them twice as hard for denying soviet forces committing any warcrimes or downplaying them in comparison to nazi ones. :D
Just tryin’ to be reasonable, what with all the whataboutisms, false narratives, and the like from both Nazi AND Soviet fanboys.
The clones were technically child combatants as well. If I recall correctly, at the beginning of the war they were only 9 years old. The only life they had experienced was violence and training to kill.
This show was, in fact, Anakin making war fun enough to be Ahsoka’s childhood.
Big fan Allen! Keep up the great work!
"Y'know, I read those SRR files. For the Greatest Generation, you guys did some nasty stuff."
"Yeah, we compromised. Sometimes in ways that made us not sleep so well, but we did it so people could be free. This isn't freedom, this is fear."
-Nick Fury and Steve Rogers, Winter Soldier
This makes me curious of what are the Galactic Republic's war crimes since everyone loves to focus on the Separatists' war crimes we hardly see or hear of the other side's crimes.
Well, I think one big one is their use of child soldiers. Even though the Clones have an accelerated growth rate, they're still technically twelve or so years old. Also, it should be noted that it's not just the Jedi who made reckless decisions during the Clone Wars, it was members of the Clone Army, as well. And the reason for this is probably that they're so young when you think about it.
@@DoctorWhoKage Very true and it's so sad in how little rights they had and how manipulated they were. An expandable disposal army full of men who never knew how to live outside of war.
We don’t know what their laws are. We don’t know what a “child” is. We can only assume and, as far as the law is concerned, when you assume, you make an ass out of u and me.
The only thing we know of the tabun code is prisons due for execution should be given the option for a blind fold
GREAT vid, Thank you Generation Tech! I'm relatively new to your Channels, I've been BINGE watching ALL playlists on both Films, and Tech, really love what you do! Thanks again, and please keep the vids coming!
Alan, you and your crew have reflected on conditions of war and combat, and I must say have consistently evaluated and presented a cogent and balanced arguments that underpin your conclusions. As in this dissertation.
I have felt the loss of many of my brothers in arms, and can tell you that my personal view of their demise, the orders followed, the tactics followed that failed and the eventual outcome, despite the employment of the most skilled and accurate piloting skills I could muster, failed outcomes can still leave a man’s soul fractured, ultimately hardening the soul over time.
It is only over time with active personal reflection and assessment; seeking meaning as it related to soul growth and life experience that bitterness is dissolved.
Man’s inhumanity of man is (I believe) at an end. And thank god for that. Because no man should see the spark of their brothers life leave their eyes. Yes, my heart bleeds for the clone troopers.
Thank you for your compassionate and balanced approach to all these discussions. I suspect that you and your crew are light warriors; whether you know it or not.
God bless you all. Peace brothers.
☮️🕉
5:50 Looks like he's been disarmed
Nobleman Sounds like something Schwarzenegger would say. I thought it was Victor from total recall but that wasnt it.
8:40 The clones already punished the Jedi by killing most of them.
Clonetrooper: "Yeah we are slaves but you wouldn't wanna mess with slaves who are willing to die as soldiers of the republic"
Jedi : (Lead clones on dumb missions where many clones die)
Clones: (kill the jedi)
Jedi : *Suprised pikachu face*
6:02 but did they really surrender?!?! Especially Palpatine because all he says is “I’m too weak, ah, don’t kill me, please” then proceed to shock Mace with his Unlimited Power and send him flying out the Windu
"Funding Insurgents"
USA: *Laughs nervously
My favorite was “bring in the flamethrowers”
I won’t hold the Jedi for “SOME” of these crimes especially when in the middle of a intense battle, but I do agree with what you say about them commenting the war crimes. Especially when There were better methods they could have used instead.
1: The purpose of the flag of truce is to cease the senseless loss of life in a fruitless battle. Considering that the Separatist Droid Army was not alive, and that Republic forces typically stood between them and a civilian population, I don't think that rule really applies.
2: There is a difference between causing physiological discomfort in someone who regularly engages in physically harmful activities against the innocent, and intends to do so again, and actually maiming them with actual torture.
3: "If a Jedi this is, gone to the dark side they have." -Yoda
4: The Jedi collected their members very young long before war and regularly lead them into dangerous situations. It served the purpose of avoiding attachments, which does come with the risk of being manipulated by a foe, but even that is not a great solution to the issue of raising a superbeing with high moral standards. The Jedi desperately need another solution.
5: The Sith are nigh impossible to hold as prisoners, even for a short time. Apparently the Mandalorians developed and effective means of doing so, but that method was all but forgotten.
6: If the Onderonian regime was supporting the Separatist cause, it is no longer neutral. Employing the people already there who want to overthrow the regime, instead of a massive commitment of your own limited forces, is just good strategy.
7: I'm not sure if the term slave really applies, because for the most part the Clones were not kept there against their will (at least, not until Order 66) (not that they where ever presented a great deal of choice), but the Jedi could have saved themselves a lot of death by asking more questions about where that army came from. But overall the Jedi went out of their way to treat their men with honor and respect, more so perhaps than the rest of the galaxy. If they didn't, Order 66 never would have worked.
8: The EMP bomb was used against machines. There is literally no harm and no foul there. The flamerthrower on the other hand...
Not all separatists are droids, and given the setting, many droids have enough sentience to be counted as "living" beings. In either case, if either side has the ability to surrender, then the act of doing so should be sincere.
1) that is a red herring fallacy. you are justifying a war crime by saying they are the good guys so its ok and avoiding why it is wrong to fake surrender. if you fake surrender the CIS has no reason to ever trust you again and would be justified in whipping you out to the last man if you keep tricking them as they can't trust you
2) red herring again. saying something doesn't hurt as much as what someone else does is not a right to do so. like saying murder is worse then assault they are both still crimes
3) no true scottsman fallacy. darkside or not she still had the title of jedi
4) red herring yet again. just cause that is who they always do things does not justify taking them to war as a child soldier
5) then CIS killing Jedi on the spot is also justified as they are equally as dangerous
6) you just justified the CIS invasion of every republic word as they too support their enemies
7) they were bread for the purpose of war and programmed to do everything they were told without hesitation even matching to their deaths. they are tools used and disposed of as needed Krell being the most extreme example
8) emp still uses radiation and one that big would have major contamination
1) The Separatists were often going to shoot innocent civilians when these things occurred, which is also a war crime.
2) Murder is worse than assault because at least in the later, you come out alive. What, is owning brass knuckles as bad as murder now too? Having them is also a crime. Also, Cad Bane is a bounty hunter who has (and will continue to) hurt innocent people, and he had two infants held hostage. Plus, he was a largely third party profiteer, not aligning himself with either side, so no war crime was committed.
3) If the Jedi Order as a whole did not sanction the act, did not condone the act, and had no knowledge of the act, then it was a single member acting alone, and thus, they were not acting as a Jedi, but as an outsider, a Sith.
4) and this is where cultural value comes into play. The Jedi have been doing this for thousands of years, and the padawan system was around long before the war.
5) Yes, it is justified, as this is war, and Jedi are massive players on the board to take away.
6) It's war. Each side fights to claim land outposts, the Separatists were doing their job as an army trying to win the war by actually fighting. Also, the Separatists also often attacked neutral, non-allied worlds, unlike the Republic.
7) The clones had free will, and some even did desert the army to live normal lives. Krell was a terrible commander, and an asshole, and was also acting on his own goals rather than the goals of the Order.
8) No harmful effects or radiation were shown to be caused by the emp aside from the sinkhole awakening the beast, which would've happened with almost any other large scale weapon. Also, it was tested on living things, and no harmful effects were shown.
@@that1nerd756
1) red herring and very disingenuous. both Anakin and Obi fake surrenders had no civies involved. you you are being dishonest here
2) the law is to protect people regardless if they are "evil" or not. just cause Cad Bane did shady things doesn't mean you can ignore it. the jedi killed Jango Fett's clan that was innocent of all wrong doing before the war so torturing them is also legit then need be
3) no true scottsman fallacy yet again. like when civies where killed in nuam they still part of the military even though not instructed to do so and it still shined poorly on America despite most people being against such things
4) appeal to tradition fallacy. just cause its always been that way doesn't make it legal or right
5) glad we agree on jedi executions on the battle field
6) so we agree again i suppose
7) deserting is illegal and they could go to prison which would have happened to the one clone if Rex turned him in they have fight or go to prison and are even exterminated if deemed unsuitable for duty. Krell showed how they are forced to obey near suicidal orders one after another him being evil has nothing to do with it
8) yes cause radiation kills over night. that's not how that works its slow and could take years like John Wayne when he did a show near a nuclear testing sight took a few decades to do him in
@@mike16apha16
1) When Anakin rammed his Star Destroyer into the blockade, it was so the Republic could get relieve supplies to the planet below, who's people were STARVING and in desperate need of help.
2) There were two INFANTS in danger, that Cad Bane had kidnapped, and he had the records and means to find 100s more. The Jedi were right to do what they did.
3) Let me ask you this, if one day, one of the Supreme Court Judges suddenly snaps and bombs a place, is it the fault of the entire court? No, it was one man, acting alone. Also, your point has little to do with the point I made above.
4) Well, it's clearly not ILLEGAL by their standards, as they have been doing it for over 2000 years, and there is literally no other, better way to do it. There is a reason the Sith haven't become a problem for those 2000 years and why Anakin turned, not taking the children causes their powers to go haywire, and taking them too late gives them time to get attached.
5. It's war, people die.
6. sure sure
7. Again, Krell was a terrible commander, AND he was actively trying to kill the clones. Also, ANY military soldiers are forced to obey commands from up above.
8. There is still no evidence of radiation. If there were signs of radiation, then it most likely would have been mentioned, as radiation is pretty detectable, and we'd most likely hear about serious drawbacks to the weapon.
The clones are not only a war crime (could be classified as child soldiers) they are a human rights violation as well.
I used to think of the Jedi as the ultimate good guys, and then I started reading the "Republic Commando" series by Karen Traviss, really changed my perspective
Its because they were written as such. Lucas intentionaly made SW as black and white as possible.
But Lucas is not a international lawyer, diplomat or military. So he just wrote "Bad guy go die now" and not research in real life scenarios to fall back on. .
Remember two things:1
1 ) it ain't a warcrime if you're the good guy
2) remember there is not such a thing as "civilians" those are acceptable casualties
Winners write the books, as seen in like every war ever. Think Vietnam - killed a civilian? No, that’s not a civilian it’s a guerilla fighter. That bag of rice definitely had that gun in it when we found the body.
@@spetsnatzlegion3366 That's why historian is such a difficult job, archives for ww1 eastern front are still scares from Russia and for the more recent 2003 Iraqi freedom (remember W.O.M.D = oil) view from the iraqi perspective is still not relevant
BTW it was a soviet womble reference
Just like America
@@bloodangel19 I don't critize any nation, anyone will ever say they've done the right thing. Saying that their nation done something wrong is really hard to say because it can be dangerous for a political leader to do because he will either fall down in the popular opinion.
The only known to me time it's been done in my country was when a president said the police helped Nazis rounding up jews and watching camps (oftenly called antichambers of death) before they were sent to extermination camp by train and he did that in the 2000's so 55 years or more after.
Only historian want the truth, the whole picture which is always hard to get, war always left shadow area where nothing is known for certain. But if you have recognition from your countries crimes by a politician, please do share.
BTW it was a soviet Womble reference
@@maudrysilvain5905 I say this from the perspective of a romanian that studyed this "people", they hate imigrants, tho most of them are imigrants, they value diversity, tho you have to fit their stupid stereotypes, they say they help other nations but they steal and make slaves of the natives, and many others, pleas share your opinoin
When the empire commits genocide it's called "atrocity"but when jedi do it it's for "galactic peace".
SMH
The Jedi don't commit genocide, you've been mislead by imperial propaganda, long live the Republic!
@@TheAnimationStationTAS Tell that the people of the Sith after the Great Hyperspace War.
Oh, wait, I remember. This is hardly possible, since there are none left after the Republican Soldiers and the Jedi murdered them all.
@@marcbartuschka6372 There are none left because they never existed idiot, long live the republic!
@@TheAnimationStationTAS You mean long live Republican lies - and that of the Jedi...
@@marcbartuschka6372 The only lies I see are your sith propaganda.
War crimes…
What about fashion crimes?
You should only wear Jedi robes in the comfort of your own studio, not at formal events, and definately not at a bar or a battlefield.
They are loungewear - and the Jedi are not _the Dude…_
Robes can be nice if they’re done right, the Jedi have to make everything look too plain and boring though.
Oh, you don't understand, the Jedi ARE "the Dude" just add a chad voice and some things just make more sense "Duuuddddeeee, just be one with the force man, don't sweat all the big stuff, lets just spread good vibes man" XD
The clothing the Jedi wore was supposed to be to show they were humble, as when they first became standard wear for Jedi it would have been something the poorest of the galaxy would have worn. (But the boots always gave them away apparently) The tunics were also supposed to be rather uncomfortable which was spun as teaching young jedi how to ignore physical discomfort.
Jedi: *does a warcrime*
Sith: "write that down, write that down!"
“The lack of empathy they seem to display” Plo Koon is rolling in his grave
Thought u include nukes as illegal weapons of mass destruction(WMD), LOL. 9:04
dirty move from kennobi, I also thought that
Generation Tech: War crimes of the Jedi. The Jedi: it’s confirmed they are working with the separatists
Those robes look like pajama material and I think they look very comfy.
This explains Yoda’s ketamine addiction
Dude, just say 7.
The bombing of the temple wasn’t done by The Jedi it was done by a rogue Jedi against the Jedi Order itself.
Was Bariss Offee still officially a Jedi? Then in was by a Jedi.
@@englishlady9797 yes. That crime is why she was expelled.
But it was by a rogue member against itself.
If a colonel knowingly sent a unit into an ambush that would be treason, but not a war crime by the nation he betrayed.
And as the headquaters of a party of the waring faction is a super legitimate target and i am suprised that in ROTS it wasnt bombarded.
Hey for a video could you look into if the Clone army ever had any NON Jedi front line generals ?
This
I've always wondered what it would be like if they were commanded by actually qualified and experienced military generals
They probably wouldn't be fucking thrown at the enemy, lol
Yeah, the EMP bomb fiasco, well, how were they supposed to know that a Zillo Beast was underground and still alive? Being a tad too harsh, don't you think?
Also he has no proof that the emp would even be illegal in the first place.
@@that1nerd756 exactly
@@MrWill9002 mhm
@@MrWill9002 This guy's making huge leaps in logic, and I'm kinda annoyed by it.
important video. The popularity of Science Fiction can lead many to presume the rules that prevail in a galaxy far away are comparable to those that are appropriate in real life. Its important to remember that everything is not as clear cut as the war against the sith and that people who die in real wars are not just clones and droids. thank you.
According to the series by Yunyun Union the Galactic Republic is guilty of 258 counts of war crimes throughout the clone wars shows and the prequels.
Here's my rebuttal. The Republic """"won"""" the war
They didn't win. They were reorganized into the first Galactic Empire!
Dr. Boring so the empire won? Or would you consider the brief battle between the ghost crew the left over droids from the war the end of the war as I do?
@@thestørmcrier2024 The Empire still won that battle tho lol
Dr. Boring ah yeah I gotcha. Still like to think Rex ended the clone war officially with that droid general though then the empire showed up and kicked them both off world lol
@@dr.boring7022 the empire would have won either way, since Palpatine controled both sides
Ain’t war crimes treated as a joke by every nation ever
It’s so lonely here
The thing about dooku is he wasn't captured he was subdued on an enemy flag ship. Escorting the chancellor out was a chore and he was willingly coming with them but dooku could slip away at any moment making taking him alive an extremely high risk decision that could cost many lives down the road.
Thank you so much for this video, this is something I'd been wanting to watch a video on for a while