Why I Chose AGM over Lithium Batteries | Forest River RV Travel Trailer
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- Опубликовано: 19 апр 2021
- In this video I explain the thought process behind the upgrade we made to our house battery bank, and show you how I installed it on our 2020 Forest River Travel Trailer. I would love to hear your opinions and/or suggestions. Please leave a comment below!!
Our camper is a 2020 Forest River Cherokee Grey Wolf Limited Travel Trailer model# 264CK
Products used for this install
Batteries: amzn.to/32t98nF
Battery Cables: amzn.to/3xbSSWc
Battery Boxes: amzn.to/3v15vl1
Battery Monitor: amzn.to/3n52tcQ
Portable Solar Generater: amzn.to/3n4NZcP
Solar Panels: amzn.to/3duOARP 
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Great points! I always see videos of how great lithium is! Especially that you get to use the Jackery 1000 anywhere you go even if your not boondocking. I have agm but I haven’t thought about one of those jackerys I will have to check them out! Thks!!
good video, I also really enjoy your camper.
Definitely the right decision!
Great video!!
Love the video and information. We are doing the exact same thing you are doing. I’m looking to buy good AGM batteries. We have a ecoflow delta max solar generator with a 2064 Wh. And 2 100wt solar panels. I do like the Vmax. I will be sure to follow you along your travels.
Mike
I bought a 200ah lithium battery for my trailer for about $640 and it’s been the single best purchase I’ve made for it by far.
who made that battery? Thanks
@@danstrayer111 Lossigy
@@garrett7101 I've heard of them... Thanks
@@danstrayer111 got mine on Amazon and it’s been a real game changer.
@@danstrayer111 nope
Thank you!
Including the "Portable Solar Generator", nice touch.
great video! I have the same setup i get about 250 amp hours...and have a Bluetti EB3A ....for an additional 270 amp hours.
Thanks for taking on this highly debatable subject. I've had good luck with a single Duracell AGM Deep Cycle Marine and RV Battery from Sam's Club. Yes they are heavy but I'd also run two if my battery compartment were larger and at $125 each, digging the price. I'm only a part-time RV'r and our boondocking is limited to a night or two before we head down the road in our class C. My RUclips channel is small so BB hasn't gifted me some free LiFePO4 batteries for a review... I sometimes wonder if that would influence an opinion? Found you from your shoot of the Mad River Men video, bravo. Been a fan of Fred and filmed him as well. Go-RV Scotty
But it’s not up for debate lithium is by far superior in every way!
nice camper!
You make some good points, thanks for the vid because like it or not standard chemistry/ agm should be the standard we compare against and it’s worth remembering what they can do. but I think the LiFePO batteries are making the decision harder and harder. A SOK 200 AH battery can be had for $650 these days. LiFePO batts are rated for 5000 ish cycles so that might be a good ten years (maybe). I’ve never had an AGM or reg battery these days last much more than 3.
I’ve looked at the Jackery stuff, but I’m trying out the Licitti DIY get set (you supply the battery of your choice). It seems like a really good starting place with a ton of features with a 2kw inverter for $500. Being able to choose my own batt, and swap in out I think may be really handy.
The biggest advantage though of he Li batts have a battery management system inside so I can drain it all the way down to nothing in the middle of the night and it will turn the batt off and protect it from damage. I did this to my wet cells a few times boondockong (not on purpose) and I’ve definitely damaged those poor things. I really like the idea of being able to use the full 100 or 200 AH out of my batts when it’s a chilly night and the wife is giving me that (I’m cold) look.
Its all about what works for you guys not what others are doing, I just built a 1 foot x 7 foot foot tray
I can't stand millionaire youtubers bragging about their thousands of dollars installations... They don't help anyone at all
Allot of good points, not sold on the AGM they still have a 50%limit and adding an additional 140lbs to my Tongue. Is more then I would want. My 2022 Imagine XLS 22mle comes with a converter that has a Lithium setting. Forget battle born; I went with LifePOV 100AH: When you pair It to your AGM's at a 50% limit you're basically getting 100 amp hours. Where as on my 100Amp hr Battery i can take down to 5% but rarely it has gone under 39%. I keep my battery on the inside of my passthrough storage in could weather i simply have a heating pad around it that they sell for baby wipes. Placed a 2000 Watt inverter on the ceiling aluminum frame of the Passthrough. My Delta River 288 Watt Lithium mini Gen. And 200 watt portable panels Delta Pannels in total $2,480 includes cables etc. My TT already comes with a 165 watt solar panel.
You make some good points as well! My opinion has changed somewhat since making this video. While I’m still a fan of AGM in general, I’ve since run into problems due to voltage sag. I have a different RV now (a NuCamp teardrop) and replaced it’s battery with one of my AGMs. I bought a 12 volt refrigerator that is not happy below 12.5 volts, so I’ve resorted to using the AGM house battery only when driving or I’m in full sun, and the Jackery the rest of the time. The manufacturer for my AGMs advertise that they can safely go down to 20% without damage, which was one of the selling points for me. And they are 125AH capacity so technically I should be able to squeeze out 100AH of useable power. Thanks for your comments and thanks for watching!
I agree 100% with what Jesse said. Prices for LifePOV batteries are coming down. I just got a SOK 206ah LifePOV battery for just over $1k for my Lance truck camper. I also installed a Victron Muliplus 2000 inverter/charger. I also have 300watts of solar. I can basically run all of the AC appliances off this system, including the air conditioner (for short periods of time), without being plugged into shore power. There are other features of the Victron Multiplus that make it a game changer. Do some research on the Victron and I think you will see what I mean.
While building a home backup system and researching batteries, all I've heard about was lifepo4 from the suave youtubers. After thinking about it some, and realizing that my system will be only for emergency power and not constant off-grid use, AGM batteries really start to make a lot of sense economically. Thanks for making this video.
A couple of other considerations: 1). How many years will you be on the road? (I’m 70 years old). 2). How many years will you own the RV you are installing them in? I just re-powered my truck camper with new AGMs. I purchased it new 11 years ago. The AGMs that came with it lasted 11 years. If I went with lithium, I would have also needed to change out the solar controller and the charger. It’s not just the additional cost of the batteries. Neither my camper or myself will be on the road in another eleven years. If I were young and ordering a brand new camper, I would invest in lithium. Also, if you are not truly an extended stay, off-grid camper lithium makes no sense whatsoever.
Thanks for the input..I'm 73 and currently we ONLY RV on weekends since we take care of our grandson 5 days a week. Once he starts school in another two years, then we will be able to travel more often..By then I'll be 75. So I see your point fas as How many years you have left to travel. It would be a waste of my money to go with Lithium..
@@victorlopez2143 … thank you. Also, regardless our age, when re-powering any used camper one needs to ask if the useful remaining life of the camper will match the new Li-ion batts. Twenty years is a long time! You won’t get it back in re-sale value, guaranteed, nor will my estate. Another undeniable fact is that few campers rarely boondock off-grid for any length of time. Talk is one thing. Doing is another. I am however all in for primitive campers to negate the need for generators. The primary case for Li-ion is weight savings and ability to increase amp-hour duration for back country low CG rigs, not big fifth wheelers that rarely venture beyond AC.
I have a Jackery 3000 and solar panel but needed to know the best battery thanks.
Thank you for your video.
I am wondering how much longer it will take for lithium batteries to become safer? Right now they have maassive fire warning stickers on the boxes for just cell phone lithium batteries. And also people randomly have them catch on fire for ebikes and EVs. This makes me want to wait for both... them to get cheaper but also so they can get them to be safer.
Ty sir
If you are using AGM batteries then you'd have to have a good desulfator. What desulfators work and what don't? I wanted to ask what the voltage of a desulfator should be at to work also? (I don't mean 12 volts for 12 v batteries, I mean the pulse voltage.)
Thank you.
AGM - Fullriver USA brand 10 years old. I'm fulltime off grid in RV. Running 165L fridge. Over night down to 11.3 to 11.9
Cheaper running geni than lithium.
10 years running it down to 11.8 volts on a little fridge batteries sound pretty buggerd mate my 80 liter on a 120 ah is still full in the morning
@@dustinfrost5214 eg. Was worst case scenario.
battery fridge amps workout perfectly to amp hr. used, with Solar 100% by 11am. Off grid 10years dam good.
Hello I have question, is it good for power station AGM battery? We have here available in UAE Toby's battery, is it same performance like other portable power station? Please help thank you stay safe all.
what gets left out in this AGM vs Lithium debate is the hidden costs of upgrading other equipment when you choose to go lithium. It is a very big cost. For those wanting better performance with extended amphrs, AGM looks like the way to go.
What big cost? Just buy a $100 battery charger to charge the lithium batteries when plugged in.
i use a remote start Firman generator ...Home Depot .
So how have the two AGM batteries been working for you so far? Have they been meeting your weekend warrior needs so far?
So far so good!
did you get adapters for your panels, and a charge controller for your batteries? So you can also charge your AGM batteries. I think the Jackery panels use the anderson style plug. Anderson to MC4 adapter, then some PV wire extensions from your charge controller. Just a small Midnite Solar "Brat" or "Kid" models would be perfect. I sold a midnite brat to a "schooly" schoold bus RV. and he was happy. The only difference is the brat is PWM, and the kid is MPPT. Plus Midnite Solar is US made and have the best support.
That was part of the plan however I have sold this RV since making this video.
AGM my opinion is a better choice, with the right amount of AGM can increase lifespan and still out perform the lithium, the big lie on lithium is you can take down to almost 0% without damage, this is not true, all battery chemistry the deeper discharge = shorter life span, lithium batteries have a greater fail rate also, AGM as stated can be charged at lower temperature, I run two AGMs and also have a lithium solar generator with two hundred watts solar on the roof, you my friend did it right, fine job fine job
Yep its a big lie thats why they have charge circuits so you never touch under 10%
Which is still a massive differrence from 50%.
agm is shit and it kills the planet.
which kind of explains why electric cars run
on lithium.
But hey you will be dead before we burn keep pumping out the carbon and ticking up
lead disposal.
That seems like the set up I want to mimic. Do you think 200 amp hours of AGM Batterybis good enough for boondocking??
I would say that if you are going to upgrade, going less than lithium is poor economy. First, lithium batteries can be discharged and recharged at least five times as many cycles as AGM. In other words, a lithium battery that costs 5 times as much as AGM is the same price over its life. It will take about five times as long to charge as lithium. That means a lot more wear and tear on the generator. Even though the manufacturer may allow it, the battery should not be discharged more than 50%. That means lithium has almost twice the capacity at the same rating. Lithium will also charge faster when on solar, meaning less use of the generator.
My lithium battery has heater built in progressive batteries work with my solar as well. True battle born don’t have heater built in. I have 10 year warranty don’t take water half the weight charges fast
Cool info. Not that many people make a strong case for AGM batteries.
Now, there are other factors to consider - like the fact the price comparison was made against Battlebornes, which are probably the most expensive lithium ion batteries in the market. More budget oriented alternatives can get you up to 3X the capacity at the expense of features like low temperature charge disconnect as well as other things you can work around.
Cause there is no case! Agm can’t touch what a lithium does!
@@chriskibodeaux9818 even when they are less than half the price of life4po batteries?
By default my AGM batteries are charging the DeltaPro lithium because the lipo has issues in hot weather, in Arizona. They are indoors, temp hits 110f at only 800watts charging. The AGM batteries always charge, haven't failed once, they charge the lithium and get more solar panels, 2000watt inverter charges DeltaPro at 500 to 1000watts. Only because it's turned out that way, And the lithium claim 3600watts but it isn't close, more like 2800w. So use DeltaPro for air-conditioning only....
HI Mike, help me with the furnace math if you would. It's drawing 7 amps. I'm thinking a furnace uses about 700 watts for a small area. If the inverter is putting out 110 volts, the current is closer to 7 amps . But the battery still has to produce the 700 watts. How do your two batteries produce 700 watts for 28 hours? It seems to be closer to 3 1/2 hours. Here's my math: 700 watts = 12 volts x 58 amps. The batteries only have 200 amp hours life, divided by the 58 amps, giving about 3.5 hours of use
It is a 12 volt furnace drawing 7 amps, so that is 84 watts. (7x12) So the inverter is not being used in this case.
How much did that add to your tongue weight? Any issues there?
It added about 100lbs. No issues so far.
How are your batteries holding up?
Still going strong!
I won’t use AGM anymore. They won’t last. Had 4 times what you have here;.. yet now my 200ah LiFePO4 is running rings around it. My videos show that I am forced to live on 12V, full time. 600 Australian $
I've used so many types and brand of battery, been off grid for over 15 years. I will never go back to any type lead battery whether it's AGM or flooded. Never again.
I appreciate your review...however, I must disagree for two simple reasons in 2023: Iron phosphate batteries 30 to 40% more and the cycles is triple of an AGM. Can I get over 5000 cycles, most likely. Yes, the weight is also a factor.
If I'm correct, four Optima 6V AGM wired in using series-parallel will outperform the two 12v batteries in this video, right?
2 - 6 volt golf car batteries will give you about the same amp hours and be 30-40lbs lighter.
I’m upgrading to 2 6v golf cart batteries this week. I’m been looking around about batteries for my RV for a while already and I think this are the best value for your money so far.
Can you tell me what 6v batteries you went with?
@@dycorrado I shopped around for a while and I couldn’t find a better deal than Costco. For $99.99 each
@@dycorrado They are Interstate 6 volt batteries, 225 ah and they are about 60 lbs each.
Can agm batteries be used inside the house is it safe to do so I’m planning on building a system for my spare room inside or am I better off having them outside I need something safe for indoors
Spend $500 on 200 aH lithium. I can now run my ac off the batteries if needed. Charges 5x faster and lasts twice as long as my 6v lead acids ever did.
And it weights 1/3 the weight.
Price has dropped by 1/2 in the last year.
In 5 years you won’t see lead acid in a new RV. It won’t make any sense when the price will be about the same as lead acid but last 20+ years.
Where did you get the 20+ years number from??
AGM's perform extremely worse than lithiums in cold weather. At 32 degrees you'll only be getting about 20% capacity out of AGM's. Lithium you would get 85-90%. The voltage sag on AGM's gets progressively worse with colder temperature. Lithium batteries maintain their output voltage at a much higher rate in cold temperatures. You can also charge lithium batteries three times faster on average than AGM's.
You're comparing watt hours to amp hours of the Battle Born batteries. You are way off on the AH comparisons. Get your figures straight before doing a video. And Battle Born batteries have a battery management system to protect them from low temps. Your agm's don't. Having said that, I've used both, and for weekend campers I would prefer agm's.
Comparing cheap AGM batteries to the most expensive brand of Lithium battery is rather meaningless. You could have put in 400 amp-hours of Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries for $1,200, a 2,000 watt pure sign wave inverter for around $400, 200 watts of solar panels for $170, a Victron 75/15 smart solar charge controller for $120 and a Victron smart shunt for $130. That system would have cost a total of 2,020 which would leave $200 for wiring. That system would give you more than three the usable battery capacity since you are not going to get much battery life if you run those AGM batteries down by 80%. I don't know where you got the idea you could use 80% of the AGM battery capacity without quickly killing the batteries. I would suggest that you draw the batteries down no more than 60% and 50% would be better. Also, you will have sulfation issues if you don't fully recharge those batteries after every discharge. Frankly, if you wanted to stick with lead acid chemistry, you would have been better off with Trojan 6 volt flooded batteries. The temperature limits on LiFePO4 batteries are a bit over stated since you would likely install them inside the trailer where they wouldn't get cold unless you left the trailer unheated for several days in below freezing weather. Yeah, the system I suggest wouldn't have the Jakari, but a 2,000 watt inverter will actually run a microwave larger than 700 watts (the largest microwave you can run with that Jakari). Just my experience based on boondocking for 30 years.
I definitely appreciate your comment and I’ve learned a little since making this video. Just for clarification, the manufacturer states that you can safely run those batteries down to 20%. The Jackery does run a 1kw microwave with no problems. Perhaps prices have gone down in the last few years, but at the time I made this video couldnt find lithium batteries for less than $850 per hundred amp hour. Thanks for the great info!
@@MikeOfca well you can discharge those batteries down to 20% safely, but it will greatly shorten their usable life. If you are in the US, you can now easily buy 100 amp-hr LiFePO4 batteries for $300.
You need too make better decisions 🤣
I know this is a year down the track but you got serious ripped on the price.
Your also not comparing apples with apples.
You bought a lower end AGM in which you'll get 1500 charge cycles out of at best. Not Military anything.
A Battle Born battery will out live you.
Heavy doe's not mean great in batteries nor do you get 200 ah useable power. Please study up on batteries.
Spending money on lead acid batteries at this point is false economy.
lotta weight on the tongue
Yes, and to be honest that made me a little nervous. But I never had any issues.
Ztop the nonsense agm vs lithium is a no brainer
I would suggest you do a bit more research. There's a ton f RUclips videos (can't remember the channel) but you can get 5k power bank for 1500 with LifePower EG4 so your math and what you are showing is literally a rip off. For marketing purposes maybe you are going for the most expensive thing you found but this is really either not well researched or your purely marketing your way which is far worse
I’ve learned a lot since making this video, so I’m agreeing with you. I’m not sure if the eg4 products existed when I made this video 2 years ago That being said I don’t regret the purchases that I made. I still use those AGM batteries for the house and Jackery 1000 for portable use and it works great for me!
Ye wrong bro sorry you only get half the amp hours of a agm battery or it collapses and gets damaged.
So your 200 ah agm set is equiv to 100 ah lifepo4
Now calculate the lifespan of an agm vs lifepo4 and your picture changes.
It was my understanding that I could safely run this particular battery brand/model down to 20% without significant damage. But if that is not the case I will stand corrected. 2 years in and they’re still kickin!
Sorry, that's only with lower quality AGM. A high quality AGM will be able to discharge 100% of rated capacity. Also, Lithium and AGM are both at lower capacity in the cold. At 32F an AGM of good quality will still have 85% of its rated capacity, while lithium will be closer to 90-95%. At the same time, unless you have heater in the lithium battery, you can't charge it below 32F in most cases.
With the prices of Lithium batteries coming down I’m not sure this video is valid anymore. You have a total of 250 aH of AGM capacity. To get around 200 cycles you shouldn’t discharge more than 50%, so your useable capacity is 125 amp hours. Yes, you can discharge down to 20% but your number of discharge cycles will go down significantly. You should be able to get a good 125 aH lithium battery for well under $500 nowadays that will last way over 2000 cycles.