Debunking Zionist Myths #1
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- Опубликовано: 21 сен 2024
- The brothers take on some of the most popular and entirely mendacious Zionist talking points and debunk them.
Texts mentioned in the episode
A.L. Tibawi, Anglo-Arab Relations and the Question of Palestine, 1914-21 (1971)
George Antonius, The Arab Awakening (1938)
Edward Said, The Question of Palestine (1992)
Edward Said, “The Morning After” (1993)
Avi Shlaim, Three Worlds (2024)
Abdel Razzaq Takriti on Palestinian revolution on The Dig podcast with Daniel Denver
Rashid Khalidi, Hundred Years War on Palestine (2020)
Shira Robinson, Citizen Strangers (2013)
Ilan Pappe, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine (2007)
Benny Morris "Survival of the Fittest: An Interview with Benny Morris" (2004)
Vladimir Jabotinsky, “The Iron Wall” (1923)
Ella Shohat, On the Arab-Jew, Palestine, and Other Displacements (2017)
Amnesty International. "Israel’s apartheid against Palestinians: Cruel system of domination and crime against humanity" (2022)
B’Tselem, "A regime of Jewish supremacy from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea: This is apartheid" (2021)
Original suppressed ESCWA report on apartheid. Israeli Practices towards the Palestinian People and the Question of Apartheid (2017)
Orit Bashkin, Impossible Exodus (2017)
Saree Makdisi, Tolerance Is a Wasteland: Palestine and the Culture of Denial (2024)
Ussama Makdisi, Age of Coexistence: The Ecumenical Frame and the Making of the Modern Arab World (2021)
UN OCHA Map of West Bank and other OPT.
Date of recording: May 28, 2024.
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Reading Ilan Pappe's book "The ethnic cleansing of Palestine" helped me a lot to find out what really happened. We were and are told so much nonsense by our media in German speaking Europe, I only see through these lies since October last year. Thank you so much for your talks! Very interesting!
pappe is a fraud
listen to martyr made podcast, his series covers everything and its shocking!
To add to you knowledge read benny morris called the new historian who debunked the zionist myth,you can find him on youtube.
Prof. Pappe's books have also been extremely helpful to me in understanding the history of the Israel-Palestine conflict. His book "10 Myths About Israel" enabled me to see how the mainstream media and Zionist spokespeople rely on half-truths and well-practised [Israeli] talking points to rationalize the behavior of the State of Israel and the subjugation of the Palestinian people.
I am currently reading "The Biggest Prison on Earth: A History of the Occupied Territories," in which he traces the development of Israel's apartheid regime, focusing on policies imposed in the aftermath of the preemptive Six-Day War.
I expect to get to other authors on the subject in due course.
well if you always drink from the same source you will never discover the other unless you refuse to discover the others.
Thanks for all the information. Education is key to fighting Zionism.
No to AIPAC and GENOCIDE
This is a great episode even for those in the know of this conflict. Very well argued. Thank you, gentlemen.
I agree.
Wasn't sure I'd gain any information I didn't know when I clicked. Glad I did! The better informed we are, the better we can counter the narrative. The comment about educating bystanders is an important one. People are so divided, they may be afraid to speak out until they have support. Remember the famous social experiment, people will follow what they perceive as an authority even when they normally wouldn't to hurt others. They're more likely to resist if another person speaks up. I'm standing up for decency no matter what. They may drag us off to the gulags if more people don't resist NOW!
Great discussion gentlemen!
Stop colonial genocide!
That’s exactly what always happens…when someone stands up and speaks out, inevitably others will get the courage to use their voices, or will tell the person afterwards that they agree with them but were afraid to speak. It’s so important, but not easy, not to be cowed by bullies or social pressure.
Thank you for this content! These are great research starting points for lay people like me who want to understand the conflict. Unfortunately the mainstream is one-sided and with substantial information out there, one doesn't always know where to start.
Watch the documentary
" 1948 creation and catastrophe"
Thank you all for this fascinating and educational podcast. You have cast light on all these things that I grew up hearing about on the TV but not understanding, except that my father would curse at the barbarity of the israelis and the duplicity of others involved. Thank God he can’t see what’s happening now. 🙏🇵🇸🍉
Anyone wanting a good primer on the specific subject of the 90s and 00s negotiations should be definitely encouraged to listen to the Daniel Levy interview for Novara Media in December 23. Or even the article "Fictions about the failure at Camp David" written by Rober Malley in 2001. Levy in particular has, a summation I find quite brilliant by saying and I paraphrase, that the Israeli left wing negotiated the deals with the Israeli right wing and then expected the palestinians to just sign on the dotted line.
After reading Prof. Ilan Pappe's "10 Myths About Israel," I was looking for a podcast on this very topic. This episode fit the bill and offered an excellent discussion of the historical reality vs. Zionist propaganda. I look forward to watching/listening to your other episodes, including those you mentioned during the conversation.
Thank you.
Another thing bout the “Jews accepted partition and the Arabs didn’t” is, if it was a democratic thing and the Palestinians rejected it and they did it anyway, then they didn’t actually care about the opinions of the Palestinians.
And they still don´t!
Excellent podcast. Thank you so much, Makdisi professors! Another great source is Pappe's "Ten Myths about Israel".
Please consider the following as future guests: Tareq Baconi, Daniel Levy, Noura Erakat, Craig Mokhiber, Nadia Abu El-Haj, Maya Wind, Nathan Thrall. Thank you!
i just discover your site. Great substantive discussion, education & references . Thank so much & keep going.
You’re going to need to make 100 of these to cover them all.
One excellent book that I did not see on your list but is absolutely in alignment with your discussion is, “The Ten Myths About Israel” by Ilan Pappe. I am now finishing the last chapter and strongly recommend its inclusion.
I eagerly wait for each podcast ❤
Comprehensive debunking of zionist myths which have become part and parcel of mainstream news organisations approach to Palestine. Useful links and articles too! Thank you
🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸✊🏿✊🏽✊🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸☝️
Was expecting Sari to mention the time he debated Benny Morris on Democracy Now, where he told morris that israelis must be suffering from a sort of collective neurosis.
Excellent content as usual. Very helpful to know about the sources, I was not aware of the suppressed ESCWA report.
One of my favourite podcasts! So informative, and love the discussion among brothers, you each have your expertise, your parents must be proud!
I really appreciate this content and I look forward to the continuation. For some months though, I have thought that this info needs to be presented as a set of well designed infographics (with sources indicated) to reach those who will not sit through a long video and who will not go to the sources themselves. We wish everyone will want to do these things but we know most won't. We need something to cut through the long-standing myths, and effective visual messages might be the way to do that. I don't know who's job this would be, but I hope someone does it.
incredibly important and thorough. (xxx naji)
Outstanding 💫💥👏 It's my first time hearing your podcast, and I'm thankful 🙏 you were in my playlist.
I subscribed
Read Walid Khalidi: Revisiting the UNGA Partition plan. He adds that the Palestinians made great arguments such as: it is not within the UN's mandate to even partition the land. He also shows how even the US abandoned the partition plan because it was absolutely not feasible. For example, in the Negev in the south, the population of Jews was 1,000 to the 100,000 Palestine Arabs and that area would go to the Jewish state. Many more examples. I highly recommend--
Another excellent episode …
I have run into all the points you covered and more … many times .
The one angle I run into that I did not hear you take apart is the
“ This is an existential religious war “.
That has many facets and finds much traction in the US and Europe among people who are already ready to believe its
Islam vs The West with plucky little Israel as the courageous forward line .
It is often used to paint Palestinians as violent religious fanatics who only understand the language of violence .
Another corollary of that is
“ There are 22 Muslim countries, we just want one tiny piece of land for Jews “.
First those are not 22 states for Muslims only , and second where is it written every religion needs its own nation state .
There are 17 million Mormons in the world , 15 million Jews .
Should Mormons demand a nation state as well ?
Look forward to the Gaza cliche argument debunking …
( Israel pulled out in 2005,
Hamas used all its money on tunnels not social services ,
Human shields ,
Why can’t they protest peacefully , etc , etc etc !).
Edit : And Thank You exponentially for the list of references !!
Very valuable .
Why is Shlomo Sand never mentioned ? i realize he is not a formal historian or geopolitical strategist , but he raises many interesting questions …
Your first myth is also a favorite talking point of Sam Harris, one of the staunch leftist Zionist supporters in the west who continues to bang on about this being Islam v the west issue.. even the hasbara trolls have dropped this taking point and he’s holding on tightly. Probably because he has no real credentials apart from being a Zionist to contribute to the Zionist cause..
@@dLehmanYes I ( unfortunately ) have heard Sam Harris . I have also forced myself to listen to Douglas Murray , just to know his arguments . He also goes straight for sowing division on a grand scale … ( Islam is barbaric , “ death cult “ , etc ).
Unfortunately I also run into plenty of less eloquent people who follow the same argument .
In regards to Gaza it is usually in the form of citing the original charter of Hamas .
I think de escalating from the framing as clash of civilization /
Religions down to a more realistic scale of land and justice is an important prerequisite to progress for many people .
@@GardenerGeorge agree 100% and yes both Murray and Harris spew Zionist propaganda..
thanks especially for the contextualization of the so-called peace process around the 55 min. mark.
Very interesting and good discussions. Thank you.
I love this show so much ❤
You all made me remember America is figured as a "vast empty continent" all over American Lit, like Gatsby and My Antonia. Great discussion.
An earlier Israeli explicit mention of the Nakba is the 2011 'Nakba Law', but Saree is right to point out the repulsing fact that they are now calling for a 'second Nakba'!
Excellent podcast. Quite insightful! Thank you!
excellent video!👏
Thank you so much for this episode.
Ari Shavit's 2013 book 'My Promised Land' is the most open one I've read in admitting, 'Yeah, we did it (the ethnic cleansing). We had to.' He was the Ha'aretz journalist who did the 2004 interview with Benny Morris. With Shavit & Morris, at least we don't have to argue any more about the facts.
Amazing episode, per usual. I would ask that we not use words like “voodoo” (30:21) in this manner. Used in this way, it’s an antiblack slur. There’s writing on this out there. 🙏🏽
He's unaware of the acronym DARVO
Deflect, accuse, reverse victim oppressor
I too object to the word voodoo
This is studied social engineering of persuasion.
Hmmm .
Your comment is sincere and nicely worded .
I had never before heard that the word “ voodoo” had any baggage .
But .
Its hard for me to grasp that language policing is the most urgent response to the subject being discussed .
And .
I lived in New Orleans for a while and “ voodoo “ seemed to be a word used often .
Its mostly drilled in my head from the excellent Neville Brothers song of that name .
I will attempt to censor myself on your behalf but I think I might need a longer conversation one day to comprehend why that is the most important issue to be addressed .🙏🏽
@@GardenerGeorge Thanks for your response. The word itself isn’t a problem. It’s how it’s used as a stand in to mean something bad is being done. It’s an oft-maligned Black diasporic religion that has been portrayed as something “dark” and bad (or as tourist material as in the case of New Orleans, where I lived for many years and have family roots), rather than as a spiritual practice as valid as any other. Again, there is info out there discussing this and how it’s connected to antiblackness. Also, language and the words we use (which carry weight, meaning and power) ALWAYS matters, especially since all oppressions are connected and we’re aiming at co-liberation and fighting propaganda (which is literally words/language). We don’t need to perpetuate antiblackness (no matter how unwittingly) for the sake of uplifting or centering Palestinians (which includes Black Palestinians, who experience a particular type of “double oppression”). This is academics having a (necessary and important) discussion on RUclips. It’s not as if I’m interrupting a direct action or standing between a weapon and a body asking people to watch their words. Anyway, there’s a lot more nuance to address about antiblackness and how it shows up globally in differing ways, and about the connectivity between marginalizations, but RUclips comment sections aren’t the place. Thanks for taking the time to consider my points. Much appreciated
@@the_blue_clerkThank you for your thoughtful response .
I looked up the subject and found a person who has been active writing essays / book the last couple of years on this subject , and you explained it more quickly and clearly .
YT comments is a limited format but it forces us to get to the point .
Tangential responses :
1) Words ARE very important .
Word choices . Sometimes it seems boring or a diversion and I hate arguments about semantics - but often you have lost before you have started if you accept certain word choices .
A great example is the :
“ Do you condemn Hamas ?” …
You are 3/4 of the way off a cliff before you start to answer ..
2) The subject of
“ cultural appropriation “ is one I have trouble with . That is more than can be solved here , but I generally think imitation is the sincerest form of flattery . When one culture brings something that works or resonates and it spreads … that seems like a normal process of cultural evolution to me .
3)I envy you having roots and connections in New Orleans .
I have lived and visited many places and there is some indescribable energy there .
Of course it has dark sides and I am under no illusions - but there is an underlying spiritual substance there that does not exist other places .
Thanks for sharing your perspective .
See Laurent Guyenot's essay on the collective psychopathy of Zionism. In my opinion Good Faith in negotiations is always important, but the collective psychopathy of Zionism needs to be factored in and recognized ahead of time.
Great program!
Been following for a bit, very powerful content, hope you bring Avi Shlaim at some point
I’ll be reposting your podcast. Great guest and very good information! Hard to believe Saree is gonna be sixty wow😅 what’s your secret 😂?
Invaluable information. And thank you so much for the list of references, although you forgot to include the podcasts by Takriti.
Just added a note that its on the Dig!
From Ireland
Tx, very interesting
So I’ve been thinking, and I’m wondering if the bible itself could be considered antisemitic under the current legal description. It is in fact the source for many of the tropes that are considered unacceptable now.
They lie without shame😢
apparently history is being written by arms and blood!💔
Please do this for all the Zionist talking points😊
The Palestinian villages were replaced with pine trees, forest, and the land is rejecting the as it's not conducive to the land and moreover olive trees shooting out from. pine trees, all praise is due to our Creator ,is this not enough proof,
I would like to know more about the PLO's process of moving away from the one secular state goal to the two-state 'solution' in the years 1974-1988 (Algiers). Snippets are that Sabri Jiryis and Issa Sartawi were sent by Arafat to talk to the zionists... Please tell us more.
Great conversation. Just one important correction. At 14:20, discussing the partition, it's NOT true that Palestinians would have been "giving up their homes, their fields, their lands, and their property..." Those people living in the proposed new Jewish state under the proposed partition would've become subjects of that new Jewish state. This is important to clarify.
"But the OtTOmAn EmPIRe" line always blows my mind -.-
Thank you! I have been trying to find anything related to this bc I've had fb friends who are Jewish maybe (seems like) zionist who I've "terribly offended" as well as comment how inaccurate I am... and want to be able to articulate what I know to be true ❤
There was never any ethnic cleansing done by Jews in the mandate of Palestine. In 1947 UN resolution 181 would’ve given the Arabs a state instead they refused and they started a Civil War by ambushing vehicles and people going between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. The Arabs started a war and then lost that war. In May 1948 five Arab countries attacked Israel. They also lost many of the Arabs that left due to war went into areas of the mandate Palestine territory, such as the Westbank or Gaza. Why didn’t they establish a state at that time in those areas?
Thank you
❤️
I would be interested in your thoughts on Herta Mullers recent piece in Haaretz where she says "Hamas wanted to evoke the holocaust". Am beyond shocked by her interview, can you react how one should respond to her zionist stance. A Nobel prize winner I believe!
you can also read: When and how the Arabs and muslims immigrated to the land of Israel-period of Briitsh Rule by Rivka Shpak Lissak.
⭐🌟✨💫⭐
where can I find the links?🙏🏾
Fun fact .. 35 of 37 signers in May 48 were European. 1 yemenite 1 Sephardic
Globally, there are fewer Palestinians than Jews. Palestinians only become a larger minority numerically when they are misidentified and grouped with Arabs. Demographically, this notion is incorrect when considering DNA (Bronze age Levantines). Palestinians can be considered a distinct ethnicity due to their genetic makeup. Moreover, Palestinians share more genetic heritage with ancient Israelites from the first century than Ashkenazim Jews from Europe, who constitute about half of the global Jewish population. Thus, Palestinians have a stronger genetic connection to the Promised Land than the ruling elites in Israel and settlers in occupied Palestine. This takes the wind out of Zionisms claims to the land. Except the Religious one. Except in the Old Testament Joshua and all Israel must be pure in heart both ceremonially and spiritually clean before the law before inheriting the land. I assure you according to the Torah no one in Israel, not one Jew on earth is ceremonially clean. This is because the methodology for ceremonial and spiritual cleansing (sin offering for instance) are gone. And therefore the reconquest of the land is invalid. Zionism mixes claims, between spiritual and secular, none of which stand scrutiny.
It was the United Kingdom's idea . Given to the usa in 67
Skofeld got a lawyer went to Oxford paid to revise the b ible reference to go along with this . I have a 1800s bible it's not in there.they didn't come from the us either the guy was in eastern Europe.
G-d gave a portion of the Holy Land to the children of Ishmael. Based on Zohar Shemot 32A
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[R. Hiyya then says] Woe is to the time that Ishmael was born into the world and was circumcised. What did G‑d do [to appease Ishmael]? He distanced the children of Ishmael from supernal cleaving and gave them [only] a portion below in the Holy Land on account of their circumcision.
And in the future, the children of Ishmael are destined to rule over the Holy Land for a long time when it is empty from anything, like their circumcision which is empty and imperfect. And they will prevent the children of Israel from returning to their place until the reward for the merit of the children of Ishmael reaches completion.
The children of Ishmael [i.e. the Arab nations] will cause great wars in the world and the children of Edom will gather against them and wage war against them, one on the sea, one on the dry land, and one near Jerusalem. And they [the children of Edom] will rule over them [the children of Ishmael], but the Holy Land will not be given over to the children of Edom. [The children of Edom is the Christian West, for Edom is Rome (see Num. 24:19, Rashi) and Rome signifies Greece-Rome and the Roman Catholic Church, the foundations of Western Civilization]
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It had already been prophesied in the Bible that the descendants of Ishmael/Arabs shall administer the Temple Mount/Jerusalem.
Isaiah 60:7
"All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together unto thee, the rams of Nebaioth shall minister unto thee: they shall come up with acceptance on mine altar, and I will glorify the house of my glory."
Kedar is the second son of Ishmael, and founder of the tribe that bore his name (Genesis 25:13). Many Arabs trace their lineage back through Ishmael to Abraham.
All the flocks of Kedar - On the word 'Kedar,' see the notes at Isaiah 21:16. The Kedarenians were a wandering tribe that frequently changed their residence, though it is probable they usually dwelt in the south part of Arabia Desert, or the north of Arabia Petraea. They are mentioned as dwelling in beautiful tents Sol 1:5 : 'I am black, but comely as the tents of Kedar,' see Psalm 120:5; compare Isaiah 21:16-17; Isaiah 42:11. The language here also means that that which constituted their principal wealth would come and enrich Jerusalem.
The rams of Nebaioth - Nebaioth was also a son of Ishmael Genesis 25:13; 1 Chronicles 1:29, and was the father of the Nabatheans. They were a people of Arabia Petraea, and lived principally by plunder, trade, and the keeping of flocks. The country of Nabathea extended, it is supposed, from the Euphrates to the Red Sea, and embraced Petra, the capital of Arabia Deserts, and also Medaba. It is not possible, however, to fix the exact boundaries of the various tribes of Arabians. The general idea is, that their most valuable possessions would be devoted to God.
Dome of the Rock is the Third Temple. There are some interpretations of the Bible that suggest that the construction of the Dome of the Rock is prophesied in the Book of Daniel. Specifically, some people believe that Daniel 12:11 is a prophecy about the building of the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem. "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days." [Daniel 12:11]
It is a heresy/unholy to think that Jews shall administer Temple Mount/Jerusalem as it had been clear in the Holy scripture that descendants of Ishmael/Arabs had been ordained by G-d to administer Jerusalem/Temple Mount.
What happened to the 850,000 Jews that lived in Arab countries? Ethnically cleansed!! Many found refuge in Israel. Can you count on one hand the amount of Jews who live in Baghdad Iraq? Or the Jews that live in Egypt, Tunisia Yemen what happened?
Mandatory palestine with arabs jews christian’s Druz cherkessis ….all of them were part of mandatory palestian with a palestian passport for thoses who needed to travel.
What did the Palestinians do in Lebanon though
60???
I know!!
GREAT INFO BUT I HAVE TO PASS ON EACH OF YOU TALKING ON TOP OF EACH OTHER. LIKE BIBLICAL BABE WHEN THE CREATOR CONFUSED THE LANGUAGES. ANNOYING😮
This is an EXTREMELY biased account of history. If you are pro-Palestinian and want a few half-truths to make you feel good about the cause, this is the video for you! If you know the area and its history deeply, you will find this video rather ridiculous. I wish they would devote their evident talents to promoting peace between Jews and Arabs, rather than grievances, of which there are plenty for all sides.
Keep yapping, no one cares. Palestine will be free ☺️
Great content. Very useful video. Thanks.
Great information, great discussions. However Karim ( the bald headed brother) should definitely get rid of those round glasses! 😳
Thats Sari (sp?). Karim has that curly head of hair!
Israel was involved in 9/201
2001