I suppose what DIY do so well is that you are using only one polish for all of their system rather than bouncing around different polishes and pad combos. Great test Jon! (And HNY!)
Yer but there's reasons those ranges of compounds exist as well. Simplicity has it's benefits though. The biggest thing they get wrong is the no pressure thing. That can compromise cut.
Thanks Jon a great video! I’d love to see a variant of this test with the same polish. Basically like the first test but with the DIY recommended polishing method (low speed jewelling) against DA and/or forced rotation. Should fill the gaps between the two tests! Thanks again! I’m starting to agree with you original thought in that the differences are negligible
Another example to show that there's little in it for the average punter. Do what you're used to, and comfortable doing, and you'll get a good enough result.
Thanks for this add-on test using the DIY method John. I think their methodology using a rotary with a waffle pad at low speed/no pressure might be to be able to get good results with a healthy safety margin for DIY/beginners. Same with their 25mm DA and the use style of that. The waffle pads do resemble the 3M design meant for rotaries that has been around for quite a while. And 3M recommends using their Ultrafine (ultrafina blue cap) polish with ultrafine blue waffle pads and use just a little pressure plus slightly higher polish speeds. Makes sense that a compound meant for the job does better than a jack of all trades like the gold standard polish.
Great comparison test and taking measurements with a properly calibrated meter does provide impartial results. I think the KCX M2 polishing oils may be better at reducing haze and matched with a flat pad is a better combination on your black panels. To me polishing with a soft waffle pad can’t match a flat medium foam pad for haze reduction.
@@ForensicDetailing would you say this has to do with the paint itself? Do you have soft or hard paint on that test panel :). I assume that the pads you used in the previous test were somewhat less soft? The right pad for the job is dictated by the paint at hand, that's where experience takes over?
When it comes to removing the diy gold standard polish you use a dampened rinesless towel and then after your first pass you use a plush dry towel for the final wipe. Then you can go over the panel with panel prep, would be curious on if that improved the haze reading as you only did a little bit of the diy system
***Product instructions state "wipe of residue with your towel of choice" there is no mention of rinseless wipe off. So yer interesting comment. I would have thought if rinseless wash wipe effected results that much it would be on the instructions. But either way it does not. But I just want to mark this comment with "***" for now. thx for your thoughts.
@@ForensicDetailingit gets mentioned in all there polishing videos from the man himself so just going by that and yeah they did miss that off the instructions so things do need to be updated
@@JayTownsend1 yer it makes no difference either way, but to be fair DIY detail cant put everything in their videos on the label or it could over complicate it. But the same process of wipe down was followed either side.
I'd assume doing that removes the film of product which would normally mask the final look of the paint. Do this sometimes after I polish an area after sanding just so I know for sure the sanding marks have fully been removed. Had it at times where after just polishing and a few days later I see the sanding marks were not fully removed and showed up more as the polish residue had come off and was masking it
not sure mate maybe when the heat dies down and I can talk about the interesting stuff with getting mobbed by fanboys if I critise it or grilled by the pan haters if I like it. At the moment theres too much drama to be able to review it calmly and objectivly.
@ForensicDetailing Agreed, its probably the most controversial detailing thing of all time, its very very polarised. As a RUclips viewer I can comment- without any bias, Clean. Paint sealant works very well. Yet to try others as the weather isn't kind at the moment. John, your doing well not to get shot in the crossfire. It's going to take a long time for this to settle down. It seems there is a division in the US between The House of Rags and The Rag Company, it seems that way atleast. RUclipsrs caught in the middle dividing up the line of which side they follow. But in reality it's just products to clean vehicles with. That's why I'm a loyal fan on The Forensic detailing channel and John just simply crunches data and performance 🫡. We all have our favourites, and same with John testing products through trial and error which is perfect for me . I also like Mike G as I feel he's fair too.
You need to repeat the test but use the same pad and polish on all 3 machines. Free Spinning Dual Action, Forced Drive and Rotary see which machine gives the best finish. I don't think there will be a lot in it. Probably won't be able to tell any difference by eye only with the gloss reader. Happy New Year.
I think yer the last test we did was kind of what you are describing but we just did it with DA and Rotary. Could be worth adding in the Forced rotation. But these machines and pads are just transporting the abrasive over the surface. So as long as you use a sensible technique, lock variables as best you can, and that technique allows the abrasive to deliver its final finish adequetly. Then the results should be more or less identical with an error margin of perhaps less than .5 GU and .3 loghaze.
@ would be interesting to get some Forensic results for all 3 machines. I keep reading that Forced Rotation gives the worst finish out of all 3 machines. Forced rotation is my primary machine and I love it. Would be nice to see the real world numbers from a comparison.
it wont matter which machine you use. the smarter brands that sell the rebranded polishers are less likely to recomend forced rotation because flex have the market there, they have also protected their newer machines better so the chinese polishers are still (mainly) copying the original 3401 design rather than the XCE. So if you hear the forced rotation is not performing I would take it with a pinch of salt. But I can happily show you it wont make any difference if you want in a live test like this.
@@SuperDuncan67 I find that hard to believe. I have both forced rotation (or gear driven) and DA polishers, the forced rotation polisher is a far better machine if for no other reason than it doesn't stall out on complex curves like a DA does. For argument's sake, let's say the FR gives a finish that is a few GUs below that of a DA but the overall effect would be that it gives better complete finish because it finishes out curves and angles better. As John has shown, the human eye can't register a few GUs but it can pick up poorly finished paint on body curves. And that's if the FR is slightly less glossy than the DA, I don't know that it is but I don't have (or need) the equipment to test what the naked eye can't register. I haven't used my DA on a car since I got a FR polisher.
they are not the only things that are different across each side. So you could only conclude from this test that the gorilla method had better results and then list all the different variables. But from this test you could not say for certaintly what was causing what from the test results alone per se (you would need to isolate more variables to then rule out the things which make a difference). I could tell you what I think but Im more interested in what you think. theres an important factor that I think someone will eventually bring up.
@@ForensicDetailingWell, if I had the equipment, I would simply repeat the test with the pads swapped. If the results are the same, that would suggest, not prove, Koch Chemie is producing a better shine. So, the next thing that would need to be tested is the speed difference. I would repeat the initial test, but run the polisher at the same speed. In fact, do one test with both at the higher speed and one with both at the lower speed. I don’t know what other variables you might think are at play, but to me the only ones that are likely to have any impact on the results are pad, polish, and speed. And I would not test any other polishes until completing the additional tests I suggested.
@@ForensicDetailingGiven that the test results were very close, I will concede some of the differences you mentioned might account for the difference. However, my money is still on the pad being the difference. That waffle pad is super soft. I don’t remember if you were specific about the flat pad you used. Was it a polishing pad or a finishing pad? One thing is for certain, after seeing the results of this test I’m beginning to question whether my investment in the red waffle pad and the Gold Standard polish was worth it!
Such a grrrreeeat test, John. You demonstrated there s no Sacre Graal Indeed 🤷 and if you use a finisher like Micro Cut M2.02 for sure you Will get Better results than using a One step polish like DIY Gold Standard 🤷
I think simply that the conclusion is the random combo of pads and polish and no special technique produced more gloss and less haze than the DIY suite of products and their best practise process. But this is one single test. results were close. no results were poor. I dont want to direct the conversation too much because Im interested to hear peoples thoughts. but theres a few key takeaways from this.
@@ForensicDetailing Okay, understand 🙂 When I'm looking at the DIY-Guys, they sometimes reminds me of a well done TV-Shopping programm. But, to each their own.
thats the name of the game. get stuck in. put the work in. reap the rewards. if your not upsetting people and your flying quietly under the radar then your dhoomed. but I do know what you mean :)
I think DIY are selling themselves a bit short. I would have sprayed 2-3 onto the pad and added a little pressure onto the polisher. I think that working more abrasives under slightly more pressure would have helped. But surely they would have tested their product to death with different variables in their lab? I bet using the Gorrila method in principle would have gained more gloss units and eliminated more haze.
They don't have their own lab if they did you would see it in their videos constantly. Both sides did not give adequate haze levels. Stiffer foam and slightly more working was required. I'd probably agree a bit more compound but maybe that's less of a factor. Both these soft finishing pads were not the right choice for the starting point we have them. The haze should be around 2 units less ideally. The gold waffle would have given better results. But the comparison we did is valid as a test but not as example of how to get the best finish for this scenario. That's why best practise is a dangerous term and most abrasives brands cannot go into detail about process. It's a complex thing and really the user has to use a certain amount of experience in choosing the correct process.
@ForensicDetailing At the end of the day, you did a solid test exactly to text book conditions. You can't argue that. Your photo meter might be better stored at room temperature. Did you remember to bring it inside? 😁
What about trying some Milwaukee battery polishers , I’d like one but mad money when customers want u to polish their cars for free or even give them money for the pleasure
I really dont know. I did best of finishing polishes many years ago and I think it was either S40 or M3 that won but my equipment was a cheap 60 deg gloss meter thats not accurate. I would need to go and buy say 10 of the top abrasive products and test them within their own systems (polish and pad combo). you would be looking at scholl, koch, 3m, sonax, menzerna, farecla, rupes, roar, cartec, 3d. Maybe do a 4 pass standard set and panel spray wipedown. bit like we did here. but then also compare wipe down and usage and price etc... maybe one day we can revisit it. It takes a lot of money and time to do the tests.
92.1 gu on the DIY side (wrote on whiteboard wrong at end)
Thanks for taking the time to test.
I suppose what DIY do so well is that you are using only one polish for all of their system rather than bouncing around different polishes and pad combos. Great test Jon! (And HNY!)
Yer but there's reasons those ranges of compounds exist as well. Simplicity has it's benefits though. The biggest thing they get wrong is the no pressure thing. That can compromise cut.
Thanks Jon a great video! I’d love to see a variant of this test with the same polish. Basically like the first test but with the DIY recommended polishing method (low speed jewelling) against DA and/or forced rotation. Should fill the gaps between the two tests!
Thanks again! I’m starting to agree with you original thought in that the differences are negligible
Appreciate the work you put into this channel. 👍
Another example to show that there's little in it for the average punter. Do what you're used to, and comfortable doing, and you'll get a good enough result.
Thanks for this add-on test using the DIY method John. I think their methodology using a rotary with a waffle pad at low speed/no pressure might be to be able to get good results with a healthy safety margin for DIY/beginners. Same with their 25mm DA and the use style of that. The waffle pads do resemble the 3M design meant for rotaries that has been around for quite a while. And 3M recommends using their Ultrafine (ultrafina blue cap) polish with ultrafine blue waffle pads and use just a little pressure plus slightly higher polish speeds. Makes sense that a compound meant for the job does better than a jack of all trades like the gold standard polish.
Great presentation and test Mr. Jon.
Great comparison test and taking measurements with a properly calibrated meter does provide impartial results. I think the KCX M2 polishing oils may be better at reducing haze and matched with a flat pad is a better combination on your black panels. To me polishing with a soft waffle pad can’t match a flat medium foam pad for haze reduction.
Your delving into the interesting bit. Because neither product really got the haze down to acceptable level.
@@ForensicDetailing would you say this has to do with the paint itself? Do you have soft or hard paint on that test panel :). I assume that the pads you used in the previous test were somewhat less soft? The right pad for the job is dictated by the paint at hand, that's where experience takes over?
Happy Sunday John - hope all is well
Great video again john
When it comes to removing the diy gold standard polish you use a dampened rinesless towel and then after your first pass you use a plush dry towel for the final wipe. Then you can go over the panel with panel prep, would be curious on if that improved the haze reading as you only did a little bit of the diy system
***Product instructions state "wipe of residue with your towel of choice" there is no mention of rinseless wipe off. So yer interesting comment. I would have thought if rinseless wash wipe effected results that much it would be on the instructions. But either way it does not. But I just want to mark this comment with "***" for now. thx for your thoughts.
@@ForensicDetailingit gets mentioned in all there polishing videos from the man himself so just going by that and yeah they did miss that off the instructions so things do need to be updated
@@JayTownsend1 yer it makes no difference either way, but to be fair DIY detail cant put everything in their videos on the label or it could over complicate it. But the same process of wipe down was followed either side.
@@ForensicDetailing yeah fair enough just wanted to bring that to your attention so you know for future reference 😊
I'd assume doing that removes the film of product which would normally mask the final look of the paint. Do this sometimes after I polish an area after sanding just so I know for sure the sanding marks have fully been removed. Had it at times where after just polishing and a few days later I see the sanding marks were not fully removed and showed up more as the polish residue had come off and was masking it
Hi John will you be reviewing the CLEAN by Pan product line it dropped in the UK a few weeks ago.
not sure mate maybe when the heat dies down and I can talk about the interesting stuff with getting mobbed by fanboys if I critise it or grilled by the pan haters if I like it. At the moment theres too much drama to be able to review it calmly and objectivly.
@ForensicDetailing Agreed, its probably the most controversial detailing thing of all time, its very very polarised. As a RUclips viewer I can comment- without any bias, Clean. Paint sealant works very well. Yet to try others as the weather isn't kind at the moment. John, your doing well not to get shot in the crossfire. It's going to take a long time for this to settle down. It seems there is a division in the US between The House of Rags and The Rag Company, it seems that way atleast. RUclipsrs caught in the middle dividing up the line of which side they follow. But in reality it's just products to clean vehicles with. That's why I'm a loyal fan on The Forensic detailing channel and John just simply crunches data and performance 🫡. We all have our favourites, and same with John testing products through trial and error which is perfect for me . I also like Mike G as I feel he's fair too.
After 40 years cleaning cars, wax,wax,wax.👍keep your machines and fancy products.
Yeah... no. Like going home with a 8/10 only to realise she was a 4/10 all along once she's took all the make up off.
I've checked all you videos but cannot find the broom/floor cleaning one.Have you uploaded it yet?
this is it you just couldnt see it ;)
You need to repeat the test but use the same pad and polish on all 3 machines. Free Spinning Dual Action, Forced Drive and Rotary see which machine gives the best finish. I don't think there will be a lot in it. Probably won't be able to tell any difference by eye only with the gloss reader. Happy New Year.
I think yer the last test we did was kind of what you are describing but we just did it with DA and Rotary. Could be worth adding in the Forced rotation. But these machines and pads are just transporting the abrasive over the surface. So as long as you use a sensible technique, lock variables as best you can, and that technique allows the abrasive to deliver its final finish adequetly. Then the results should be more or less identical with an error margin of perhaps less than .5 GU and .3 loghaze.
@ would be interesting to get some Forensic results for all 3 machines. I keep reading that Forced Rotation gives the worst finish out of all 3 machines. Forced rotation is my primary machine and I love it. Would be nice to see the real world numbers from a comparison.
it wont matter which machine you use. the smarter brands that sell the rebranded polishers are less likely to recomend forced rotation because flex have the market there, they have also protected their newer machines better so the chinese polishers are still (mainly) copying the original 3401 design rather than the XCE. So if you hear the forced rotation is not performing I would take it with a pinch of salt. But I can happily show you it wont make any difference if you want in a live test like this.
@@SuperDuncan67 I find that hard to believe. I have both forced rotation (or gear driven) and DA polishers, the forced rotation polisher is a far better machine if for no other reason than it doesn't stall out on complex curves like a DA does. For argument's sake, let's say the FR gives a finish that is a few GUs below that of a DA but the overall effect would be that it gives better complete finish because it finishes out curves and angles better. As John has shown, the human eye can't register a few GUs but it can pick up poorly finished paint on body curves. And that's if the FR is slightly less glossy than the DA, I don't know that it is but I don't have (or need) the equipment to test what the naked eye can't register. I haven't used my DA on a car since I got a FR polisher.
Do you have any heating in the garage Jon?
I have a heater but theres no insulation and the noise of it not good for recording.
@ForensicDetailing 👍🥶
Just curious, have you seen Ivan use a “hand sander” with his yellow pad? Your thoughts???
not seen mate but probably would work might be ok for finishing or applying a wax/glaze/sealant or something?
@ thank you Sir. I really like your videos. Very informative and interesting!!
So, was it the pad or the polish that made the difference?
they are not the only things that are different across each side. So you could only conclude from this test that the gorilla method had better results and then list all the different variables. But from this test you could not say for certaintly what was causing what from the test results alone per se (you would need to isolate more variables to then rule out the things which make a difference). I could tell you what I think but Im more interested in what you think. theres an important factor that I think someone will eventually bring up.
Maybe using a dry pad Is much Better then a damp One 🤔 this Is another critical variable in DIY method@@ForensicDetailing
@@ForensicDetailingWell, if I had the equipment, I would simply repeat the test with the pads swapped. If the results are the same, that would suggest, not prove, Koch Chemie is producing a better shine. So, the next thing that would need to be tested is the speed difference. I would repeat the initial test, but run the polisher at the same speed. In fact, do one test with both at the higher speed and one with both at the lower speed.
I don’t know what other variables you might think are at play, but to me the only ones that are likely to have any impact on the results are pad, polish, and speed. And I would not test any other polishes until completing the additional tests I suggested.
pressure, damp pad , dollaps rather than spray, pad brushed clean rather than rinseless clean.
@@ForensicDetailingGiven that the test results were very close, I will concede some of the differences you mentioned might account for the difference. However, my money is still on the pad being the difference. That waffle pad is super soft. I don’t remember if you were specific about the flat pad you used. Was it a polishing pad or a finishing pad?
One thing is for certain, after seeing the results of this test I’m beginning to question whether my investment in the red waffle pad and the Gold Standard polish was worth it!
Such a grrrreeeat test, John. You demonstrated there s no Sacre Graal Indeed 🤷 and if you use a finisher like Micro Cut M2.02 for sure you Will get Better results than using a One step polish like DIY Gold Standard 🤷
You needed to wipe the panel down again, there is polish dust all over it when you were measuring
Thanks for your effort.
What is the conclusion for you ?
I think simply that the conclusion is the random combo of pads and polish and no special technique produced more gloss and less haze than the DIY suite of products and their best practise process. But this is one single test. results were close. no results were poor. I dont want to direct the conversation too much because Im interested to hear peoples thoughts. but theres a few key takeaways from this.
@@ForensicDetailing
Okay, understand 🙂
When I'm looking at the DIY-Guys, they sometimes reminds me of a well done TV-Shopping programm.
But, to each their own.
thats the name of the game. get stuck in. put the work in. reap the rewards. if your not upsetting people and your flying quietly under the radar then your dhoomed. but I do know what you mean :)
@@ForensicDetailing
You're absultely right.
Thanks for your answers.
I think DIY are selling themselves a bit short. I would have sprayed 2-3 onto the pad and added a little pressure onto the polisher. I think that working more abrasives under slightly more pressure would have helped. But surely they would have tested their product to death with different variables in their lab?
I bet using the Gorrila method in principle would have gained more gloss units and eliminated more haze.
They don't have their own lab if they did you would see it in their videos constantly. Both sides did not give adequate haze levels. Stiffer foam and slightly more working was required. I'd probably agree a bit more compound but maybe that's less of a factor. Both these soft finishing pads were not the right choice for the starting point we have them. The haze should be around 2 units less ideally. The gold waffle would have given better results. But the comparison we did is valid as a test but not as example of how to get the best finish for this scenario. That's why best practise is a dangerous term and most abrasives brands cannot go into detail about process. It's a complex thing and really the user has to use a certain amount of experience in choosing the correct process.
@ForensicDetailing At the end of the day, you did a solid test exactly to text book conditions. You can't argue that. Your photo meter might be better stored at room temperature. Did you remember to bring it inside? 😁
What about trying some Milwaukee battery polishers , I’d like one but mad money when customers want u to polish their cars for free or even give them money for the pleasure
I don't think they are readily used in the UK mate.
dont mess with the guerrillas 🤣
All the polishes are made of hand lotion and aluminum oxide
🎶 Don’t let me down 🎶
Each of your videos is a true work of art that brings joy and inspiration!😮⌚️🐝
Feliz año nuevo/Happy new year 2025
I'm very happy to have found your channel. Your videos are always so high quality and interesting. Keep it up!🦆🌾🥥
Thank you for making another great video !
In your opinion what is the best finishing polish and pad combination?
I really dont know. I did best of finishing polishes many years ago and I think it was either S40 or M3 that won but my equipment was a cheap 60 deg gloss meter thats not accurate. I would need to go and buy say 10 of the top abrasive products and test them within their own systems (polish and pad combo). you would be looking at scholl, koch, 3m, sonax, menzerna, farecla, rupes, roar, cartec, 3d. Maybe do a 4 pass standard set and panel spray wipedown. bit like we did here. but then also compare wipe down and usage and price etc... maybe one day we can revisit it. It takes a lot of money and time to do the tests.
That would be an awesome video