The MIG-29 is also missing a lot of energy retention, it flies like its made out of paper. And all the 29's need R-73 as that is it's main weapon the plane was built around. It is like the phoenix to the tomcat.
The AOA was really never what made this aircraft bad. It just doesn’t have the energy retention on its side, even a mirage will retain more energy depending on the speeds we’re talking about so if we’re talking about just buffing the AOA I don’t think it will save this plane
The missiles are what bother me. Remove the R-27ER from the earlier versions, and give them the R-73's they should have. Give it back it's old flight model on top of that, and I'm happy.
@MqncoMarepoto it would buff them alot, the r27r is still good enough, and the 4 r60m is just pain, missles that require no effort to be flared and the old flight model was much better yet not overpowered
F-16s get about 19°-20° per second max sustained rate. the listed (high 20s number) was for an F-16A model with no weapons no pylons no gun ammo and only 4k lbs of fuel. basically not a combat capable aircraft. @@lucasmodica38
@@radioactivelambo4015really out rate? I was aware that they both were very similar to each other i'm terms of rate fightining, with the f16 winning for only a few or a single degree, and the mig29 being able to put a lot more AoA in the first turns, similar to the f18
The MiG-29 never had a limiter modeled in game infact that was on of the biggest issues when apex predators was first released. The “limiter” shown in this video is called the instructor and not only is applied to every single plane but also can only be turned off by going into full real.
MiG-29 has a 7.5G, 15° AoA limit at speeds above Mach 0.85 and a 9G, 26° AoA limit while subsonic, although you can always disable the flight computer and go wild. The A models have a 'soft limiter' that pushes back on the stick if AoA exceeds 21° and (iirc) they increased that limit to 23°for the SMT, but the limiter can be overriden by simply pulling harder on the stick. The F-16 has similar restrictions at 7G, 15°AoA and 9G, 25° AoA respectively but, unlike the MiG, the pilot can't just push a button to go YOLO. P.S. a leading edge flap failure on the MiG will limit the aircraft to 15° AoA even at subsonic speeds.
if its gotta go up to 13.0 it should definitely keep the ERs imo most of the aircraft at that BR like the mig-29s and F-16As, F-14s etc should get R73s and 9Ms
@@smolpenguingoddess I honestly DONT want it to keep the ER's as it justifies gaijns action of making this thing a missile bus, just give us the 73s and the old FM
@@DownHereInChile I know, but we are talking about Gaijin. Instead of giving the 104 flares and put it at 10.3, they prefered to completely mess up its FM and its still a pain in the but to deal with. 12.7 M29 keeping its ERs and being given R-73 will mean "No FM buff needed" for Gaijin and itll still fly like an oil tanker. If we want the MiG-29 to be at its prime it'll cost us a BR increase.
imo they should just give the M29 it´s old FM back or just buff it (in the sense of less drag/speedbleed). Anyone can esaily acces the Flight Manual of the MiG-29 (9.12,9.13) "Luftwaffenmaterialkommando" and the Doc. after the Test-Dogfights in Italy where german Fulcrums fought other Nato aircraft. Ranging from stuff like the F-15/16/18 to the Tornado or even M2k.
Soviet early 4th gen fighters as a whole are just not competitive, they all need a buff and their historical missile load outs, which means r73 for the mig 29 and r73 and 77 for the Yak 141
What I think is that we need a Instructor override key in Mouse aim, where you have all the control of real controls but in a controllable way, bassically a Place nose of cursor at all costs button would allow aircraft like the Su-27, MiG-29 and J35 to pull the AoA they were famous for without major drawbacks to sustained performance, probabally would help the Russian aircraft which lean in on AoA + R-73 combination for dogfighting, would also help with some some shots in other aircraft such as stall shots, were the instructor would otherwise cause you to lock up to try to stop you stalling, you could just press that button and boom, full controllability, with a risk of a true stall,
Having that would be really nice, but also along side that an easy to use elevator trim/aoa limit keybind would be helpful for rate fighting. Also for bleeding less speed on aircraft that can pull hard aoa, when you want to do shallower turns. And they already have an elevator trim keybind in full real controls that lets you rate at insane speeds for certain aircraft, it's just really clunky to use in AirRB.
I kinda have such setup, I have HOTAS with full controlls and a button to switch FCS modes. If I need to just fly, I have FCS damping mode active, and then, lets say, need to do high AoA maneuver, I just switch to FCS full control. Only downside of that is that there is an auto horizon mode in between damping and full control, so you have to press button twice. Also, without practicing flying in full controll you can pull too much for too long and enter almost unrecoverable flat spin.
@ShaD_46 oh i do use full control quite a bit, you can get away with a lot if you are quick on the rudder and more so if you master how to use asymmetric thrust, god its amasing in the MiG-29 and F-14
well it was nerfed cause the ER was prettey Strong... and now it should be de-nerfed and perform like a worse F 16 A (wich is overperforming rn a little ik) Especially it should retain more speed then rn and this makes me kinda sad... id like all MiG 29s to be actually compareable with the F 16 flightperofrmance ways
Don't get me wrong unrealistic AOA limits ( for mouse control ) is a problem but is a fraction of the real problem which is energy retention. All MiG-29 and Su-27 in the game have excessive drag , they loose energy way too fast !
@SuiSideex You lost me at DCS .... it's like someone trying to make an argument using Wikipedia as a reference , in other words it shows that you are clueless ! For your education DCS is not a reference in terms of realism , it just has fancy clicable cockpits this is where it ends. Many of DCS FMs are garage in terms of realism especialy those of Flaming Cliff pack. Su-27 ( and MiG-29 although the latter is much less accurate in WT ) in both DCS and WT is loosing energy waaaay too easely , this is recognised by actual pilots. You don't judge energy retention of a platform based on the size alone , it's like reading a book by the cover. What matters is wing loading , high alpha drag and T/W .
@user-qq8ek4zs4s And u surely knows how those jets works irl, sure my ruski cryboy, cry more. x D Also handle with that, not only u sad ruskies are not realistic/ historic accurace, same as all other stuff, for example merkava's, so stop crying about u ruskies cuz u bad in the game cuz su-27sm its actually much better than any other
How to fix all the mig29’s, get rid of the r-27er from all the mig29a’s so both 9.12’a and the 9.13 give it the r73 and revert the fm nerf, and also remove the r-27et from the mig29g as it never used them
I miss the OG Mig29 flight characteristics. It was extremely strong but could still be beaten by someone that understands how to keep someone in a rate fight and maintain their rating speeds. These days it just shits away speed the moment you try to turn. It *barely* outrates the su25… that shouldn’t be happening.
MiG-29 does feel bad at nearly everything. Lacks retention for 2 circle and gets out pulled in the 1 circle. Would also love to see the Russians get a 13.0 version with r-73s like the Germans have. The MiG-29 also has absurd drag, coming out of AB and the aircraft bleeds significant speed without even maneuvering
@@nolanwaddill8472 dude the r60 at 12.7 is like carrying aim9p on 14.0. The mig29 gets only 2 good missile which are the r27er. Technically if it gets have 2 mors r27t/r it will be good or balanced
@@theidiotictroublemaker2281 Which would be fine if the BRs above it weren’t so compressed. Y’all are so obsessed with moving advanced kit down but really the meta 13.0s (cough flanker + 15A) and everything above it need to be moved up. Otherwise the problem stays the same and just transfers to a lower BR that becomes meta and OP.
Idk about a buff but it being at the same br as the su27 with half of the capability is kinda dumb. It should go down. They need to work on decompression for 11+
How do I get that info to pop up on my screen I have tried it I don’t know how Edit. Nvm seen your old video sucks as a console player we don’t have access to features like this
Well the su27 and mig29 are underpeforming due to american skill issue and they whine and cry because they are bad, and they got the f15 and f16 artificially buffed
Yes, the MiG-29's performance could be improved, but what bothers me the most is the limitation of carrying only two R-27 missiles. Having the R-73 instead of the R-60 would be nice, but for me, it’s not essential since most of my kills happen in BVR (beyond visual range) combat. This is actually the main issue: I often get one or two kills and then have to return to base to rearm for two reasons. First, the limited fuel capacity. Second, the small number of flares. Because of this, I prefer to avoid closing the distance against an F-14 or any other aircraft with decent BVR capabilities. If the MiG-29 could carry four R-27ER/ET missiles, I’d be happy, as this would significantly enhance its combat power. In my view, it would make the MiG-29 much more balanced and competitive, especially against aircraft equipped with Fox-3 missiles. Note: I play exclusively in SB (simulation).
@@DownHereInChile Yes, I understand that, but honestly, it’s one of those balancing issues. I play as the Germans, and it’s really frustrating to deal with aircraft like the Su-27, F-15, and Gripen-not to mention the Fox 3 missiles-when I only have two R-27s available. The MiG-29’s radar is already not the best, and you don’t have good fuel autonomy or enough flares. This puts you in a bad spot very quickly unless you’re extremely careful. Many times, you miss the chance to take out targets simply because of the risk of running out of fuel or flares while trying to close the distance to use the R-60/73s. That’s why I think it would be fair to give some help to the MiG-29, even if it’s not historically accurate.
That plane IRL was a failure because at the time MiG finished the project sukhoy were miles ahead on Sales and whatever, still cool but It won't be better than the flankers
same as f-16, and who cares, gaijin dont, 10g pulls when older or jets which shouldnt puts more, but they do and here u go with typhoon and rafale thats pulls 14-16g.
The MIG-29 is also missing a lot of energy retention, it flies like its made out of paper. And all the 29's need R-73 as that is it's main weapon the plane was built around. It is like the phoenix to the tomcat.
Which version needs R-73? btw i think next update the new MiG will have it
@@fqeagles21 Every mig29 except for MIG29SMT and MIG-29G because they already have R73.
@ I could agree with
@@fqeagles21 every MiG-29A has it.
Then the r27er should get removed cus it didn't get them irl ik the r73 is its signed weapon like the tomcat with pheonixs war thunder is weird
The AOA was really never what made this aircraft bad. It just doesn’t have the energy retention on its side, even a mirage will retain more energy depending on the speeds we’re talking about so if we’re talking about just buffing the AOA I don’t think it will save this plane
The missiles are what bother me. Remove the R-27ER from the earlier versions, and give them the R-73's they should have. Give it back it's old flight model on top of that, and I'm happy.
I'd take that any day
See this seems pretty fair compared to f16 and f15
so basically nerfing them lol
@MqncoMarepoto it would buff them alot, the r27r is still good enough, and the 4 r60m is just pain, missles that require no effort to be flared and the old flight model was much better yet not overpowered
@@mursac1959 yo wait just discovered that every other 12.7 mig29 that isn't in Russia had the r27er and r73. Wtf gaijin
Every single plane outrates the mig29, it’s not the instructor, it’s the flight model
the mig-29 irl could out rate f-16s with better energy retention but yet when it as gaijin they had to nerf it like the gripen
@@radioactivelambo4015false lol
@@panv1ch try not holding down S the whole time
F-16s get about 19°-20° per second max sustained rate. the listed (high 20s number) was for an F-16A model with no weapons no pylons no gun ammo and only 4k lbs of fuel. basically not a combat capable aircraft. @@lucasmodica38
@@radioactivelambo4015really out rate? I was aware that they both were very similar to each other i'm terms of rate fightining, with the f16 winning for only a few or a single degree, and the mig29 being able to put a lot more AoA in the first turns, similar to the f18
its kinda crazy they removed the restriction on f16 and not on mi29, given fact that rl pilots always praised that aircraft for having more control.
The MiG-29 never had a limiter modeled in game infact that was on of the biggest issues when apex predators was first released. The “limiter” shown in this video is called the instructor and not only is applied to every single plane but also can only be turned off by going into full real.
@mochathegrande3640 that's exactly my point. F16 with instructor on can pull more, than mig29
RD-33 series 3 engines in the SMT are mssing 1500 Kgf from each engine. gaijin doesnt care
MiG-29 has a 7.5G, 15° AoA limit at speeds above Mach 0.85 and a 9G, 26° AoA limit while subsonic, although you can always disable the flight computer and go wild.
The A models have a 'soft limiter' that pushes back on the stick if AoA exceeds 21° and (iirc) they increased that limit to 23°for the SMT, but the limiter can be overriden by simply pulling harder on the stick.
The F-16 has similar restrictions at 7G, 15°AoA and 9G, 25° AoA respectively but, unlike the MiG, the pilot can't just push a button to go YOLO.
P.S. a leading edge flap failure on the MiG will limit the aircraft to 15° AoA even at subsonic speeds.
Give it R-73s. Fix its flight model back to Sky Guardian level. Take away the ERs. In case it is too overpowered, get it up to 13.0. As easy as that.
29G struggles at 13.0, even with ERs :\
if its gotta go up to 13.0 it should definitely keep the ERs
imo most of the aircraft at that BR like the mig-29s and F-16As, F-14s etc should get R73s and 9Ms
@@DownHereInChile No it doesn't. That's what we call skill issue.
@@smolpenguingoddess I honestly DONT want it to keep the ER's as it justifies gaijns action of making this thing a missile bus, just give us the 73s and the old FM
@@DownHereInChile I know, but we are talking about Gaijin.
Instead of giving the 104 flares and put it at 10.3, they prefered to completely mess up its FM and its still a pain in the but to deal with.
12.7 M29 keeping its ERs and being given R-73 will mean "No FM buff needed" for Gaijin and itll still fly like an oil tanker. If we want the MiG-29 to be at its prime it'll cost us a BR increase.
imo they should just give the M29 it´s old FM back or just buff it (in the sense of less drag/speedbleed). Anyone can esaily acces the Flight Manual of the MiG-29 (9.12,9.13) "Luftwaffenmaterialkommando" and the Doc. after the Test-Dogfights in Italy where german Fulcrums fought other Nato aircraft. Ranging from stuff like the F-15/16/18 to the Tornado or even M2k.
Soviet early 4th gen fighters as a whole are just not competitive, they all need a buff and their historical missile load outs, which means r73 for the mig 29 and r73 and 77 for the Yak 141
What I think is that we need a Instructor override key in Mouse aim, where you have all the control of real controls but in a controllable way, bassically a Place nose of cursor at all costs button
would allow aircraft like the Su-27, MiG-29 and J35 to pull the AoA they were famous for without major drawbacks to sustained performance, probabally would help the Russian aircraft which lean in on AoA + R-73 combination for dogfighting,
would also help with some some shots in other aircraft such as stall shots, were the instructor would otherwise cause you to lock up to try to stop you stalling, you could just press that button and boom, full controllability, with a risk of a true stall,
Having that would be really nice, but also along side that an easy to use elevator trim/aoa limit keybind would be helpful for rate fighting. Also for bleeding less speed on aircraft that can pull hard aoa, when you want to do shallower turns. And they already have an elevator trim keybind in full real controls that lets you rate at insane speeds for certain aircraft, it's just really clunky to use in AirRB.
I kinda have such setup, I have HOTAS with full controlls and a button to switch FCS modes. If I need to just fly, I have FCS damping mode active, and then, lets say, need to do high AoA maneuver, I just switch to FCS full control. Only downside of that is that there is an auto horizon mode in between damping and full control, so you have to press button twice. Also, without practicing flying in full controll you can pull too much for too long and enter almost unrecoverable flat spin.
@ShaD_46 oh i do use full control quite a bit, you can get away with a lot if you are quick on the rudder and more so if you master how to use asymmetric thrust, god its amasing in the MiG-29 and F-14
well it was nerfed cause the ER was prettey Strong... and now it should be de-nerfed and perform like a worse F 16 A (wich is overperforming rn a little ik) Especially it should retain more speed then rn
and this makes me kinda sad... id like all MiG 29s to be actually compareable with the F 16 flightperofrmance ways
Don't get me wrong unrealistic AOA limits ( for mouse control ) is a problem but is a fraction of the real problem which is energy retention. All MiG-29 and Su-27 in the game have excessive drag , they loose energy way too fast !
What? go fly with su-27 on DCS and u will see, u know how big is su-27 and how much its affects on energy retention? Xd
@SuiSideex You lost me at DCS .... it's like someone trying to make an argument using Wikipedia as a reference , in other words it shows that you are clueless !
For your education DCS is not a reference in terms of realism , it just has fancy clicable cockpits this is where it ends. Many of DCS FMs are garage in terms of realism especialy those of Flaming Cliff pack.
Su-27 ( and MiG-29 although the latter is much less accurate in WT ) in both DCS and WT is loosing energy waaaay too easely , this is recognised by actual pilots.
You don't judge energy retention of a platform based on the size alone , it's like reading a book by the cover. What matters is wing loading , high alpha drag and T/W .
@user-qq8ek4zs4s And u surely knows how those jets works irl, sure my ruski cryboy, cry more. x D
Also handle with that, not only u sad ruskies are not realistic/ historic accurace, same as all other stuff, for example merkava's, so stop crying about u ruskies cuz u bad in the game cuz su-27sm its actually much better than any other
@@SuiSideexbro he is completely correct you’re just clueless
@user-qq8ek4zs4ssu27 isn’t too bad nowadays with the engine swap you can gain speed and re-engage or notch without just falling out the sky anymore
Missing thrust, too much induced drag, missing historical loadout, lifting body+wing Oswald numbers not modeled correctly
45 years of MiG-29 "Fulcrum" in 2022.
How to fix all the mig29’s, get rid of the r-27er from all the mig29a’s so both 9.12’a and the 9.13 give it the r73 and revert the fm nerf, and also remove the r-27et from the mig29g as it never used them
I miss the OG Mig29 flight characteristics. It was extremely strong but could still be beaten by someone that understands how to keep someone in a rate fight and maintain their rating speeds.
These days it just shits away speed the moment you try to turn. It *barely* outrates the su25… that shouldn’t be happening.
Some content creators go around saying this flight model is realistic which only hurts the issue, and isnt even true.
MiG-29 does feel bad at nearly everything. Lacks retention for 2 circle and gets out pulled in the 1 circle. Would also love to see the Russians get a 13.0 version with r-73s like the Germans have. The MiG-29 also has absurd drag, coming out of AB and the aircraft bleeds significant speed without even maneuvering
MiG-29 12.7 needs R-73
Brain damaged take
@@nolanwaddill8472 dude the r60 at 12.7 is like carrying aim9p on 14.0.
The mig29 gets only 2 good missile which are the r27er.
Technically if it gets have 2 mors r27t/r it will be good or balanced
@@nolanwaddill8472mig 21 with R73s enters the chat
@@thatoneguy1741 the mig 21 has dogshit flight performance, the mig29A has great flight performance and ER/ETs added to the mix.
@@theidiotictroublemaker2281 Which would be fine if the BRs above it weren’t so compressed. Y’all are so obsessed with moving advanced kit down but really the meta 13.0s (cough flanker + 15A) and everything above it need to be moved up. Otherwise the problem stays the same and just transfers to a lower BR that becomes meta and OP.
IRL it beat the Block 15 F16... idk why gaijin made that with it.
This just goes back to the improper flight model being that they think the critical angle of attack is around 30
The MIG29G is my favorite wish they could increase it's flight performance.
Idk about a buff but it being at the same br as the su27 with half of the capability is kinda dumb. It should go down. They need to work on decompression for 11+
It's not the same BR as the flanker?
@ sorry should have specified, the mig29g is the same br as the su27 (not sm).
Nah, I don’t want the MiG-29 to become a viggen or draken, that would suck for dogfights and energy retention
they should just add a toggle that unlocks limits on mouse aim
r73 when on the A's when?
What mod adds the extra details such as aoa?
MiG 29 is so shit it’s sad and it only has 6 mid missiles sucks because it’s such and iconic and nice looking plane
How do I get that info to pop up on my screen I have tried it I don’t know how
Edit. Nvm seen your old video sucks as a console player we don’t have access to features like this
What they need to do is make a “dog fight” mode and take fox 3 out of the equation
If the mig-29 gets a buff then the F-16A and ADF should get a buff their both on par with each other
does anybody know what texture mod this is?
Well the su27 and mig29 are underpeforming due to american skill issue and they whine and cry because they are bad, and they got the f15 and f16 artificially buffed
In game the mig29 9.12 will easily pull 50º AoA
Actually a really good idea, mig 29 feels so bad to play, good vid.
how did you open those parameters?
War Thunder Real Time Information (WTRTI)
wtrti
Event MiG 29 for German tech tree A to Ground MiG 29 UB plz
Yes, the MiG-29's performance could be improved, but what bothers me the most is the limitation of carrying only two R-27 missiles. Having the R-73 instead of the R-60 would be nice, but for me, it’s not essential since most of my kills happen in BVR (beyond visual range) combat. This is actually the main issue: I often get one or two kills and then have to return to base to rearm for two reasons. First, the limited fuel capacity. Second, the small number of flares.
Because of this, I prefer to avoid closing the distance against an F-14 or any other aircraft with decent BVR capabilities. If the MiG-29 could carry four R-27ER/ET missiles, I’d be happy, as this would significantly enhance its combat power. In my view, it would make the MiG-29 much more balanced and competitive, especially against aircraft equipped with Fox-3 missiles.
Note: I play exclusively in SB (simulation).
Then we need the mig31 it should be able to carry 4
Only the 29M and its derivatives can carry up to 4 R27s. God do I wish they were added
@@DownHereInChile Yes, I understand that, but honestly, it’s one of those balancing issues. I play as the Germans, and it’s really frustrating to deal with aircraft like the Su-27, F-15, and Gripen-not to mention the Fox 3 missiles-when I only have two R-27s available. The MiG-29’s radar is already not the best, and you don’t have good fuel autonomy or enough flares. This puts you in a bad spot very quickly unless you’re extremely careful. Many times, you miss the chance to take out targets simply because of the risk of running out of fuel or flares while trying to close the distance to use the R-60/73s. That’s why I think it would be fair to give some help to the MiG-29, even if it’s not historically accurate.
Buff the flight model and make the r73 behave less like an r60m eating flares
All Russian high&toptier fighters are unrealistic&bad
plane needs a buff or BR decrease
We need the mig-35 as soon as possible
That plane IRL was a failure because at the time MiG finished the project sukhoy were miles ahead on Sales and whatever, still cool but It won't be better than the flankers
@@fqeagles21 Another reason is that the Russian Air Force simply does not need a light fighter.
@@Տիգրան-ժ1է i agree
We need MiG-35
Early 29s have ers they shouldnt
same as f-16, and who cares, gaijin dont, 10g pulls when older or jets which shouldnt puts more, but they do and here u go with typhoon and rafale thats pulls 14-16g.
the f16 is overpeforming bro
Bro please sleep
yes
How’s the typhoon radar change?
Hell yes
Who cares at this point
💯
first
Yeah dude no one cares.
Second