Hi Guys, a nice video which is essentially covering a lot of the points made by Homer Kelley in the Golfing Machine all those years ago. Just one point - for the swing videos shot with the high-speed camera (Sony RX100) you can get rid of the clubshaft blur by setting the camera on shutter priority and then you can set the shutter speed around 1/2500 or even 1/3200 and that will give you clear clubshaft position through impact. I find that the camera copes fine with poor light.
Very informative video explaining the concept of lag pressure, and not to be confused with club head lag. Great video. Thank you for the insight. Cheers from Ottawa, Canada.
I have learned more about the back swing motion and down swing to impact in this video than in a thousand other instruction videos on RUclips. Golf should not be a hard as 99% of PGA "certified" instructors make it out to be. I am done watching a plethora of videos from umteen instructors. This is the end-all, be-all video. THANKS!
Awesome video 👍. My first golf teacher used to show me my impact position on video compared to pro players and it helped a lot to create lag. I got away from it over all these years and I don’t feel like I compress the ball at all now on most swings. Good stuff to work on for sure, thanks 🙏
This is as good an example as you'll find of the _right_ application of terms like "lag" and "pressure." So much misinformation out there, so many people advocating more extreme or wrongly-conceived versions of it. But this guy is dead solid. The genius here is his insistence that it doesn't matter whether you're at full extension a couple of inches past or two or three feet past, you still get all to nearly all of the benefit as long as you're not on the negative side. Compare that with other people out there telling you to make it super-extreme, the more the better, etc., which is observably not true, especially if you listen to people who tell you to hold everything off all the way to the finish. It's one thing to let the release happen where it naturally does past the ball when force is applied; completely another to take an amateur who's already not releasing freely and fully and tell him to choke off the release even past the ball and into the finish.
One minor point: Rahm and Johnson aren't really representative examples, but more extreme examples used to make a point. I'm sure Mr. Cordle would tell you that top players who have extra-strong grips and/or shut the face at the top have to make an extra-hard move with the body on the downswing and are going to have the lead forearm angled more toward the target than other top players who aren't quite so extreme. This is observable in any sequence photos of various great ballstrikers. But what _is_ true is that _no_ great strikers have the clubhead passing the lead forearm before impact.
I remember talkin with a golf Pro Buddy of mine and asking why dont't we teach the ideal impact position as the address position, he really couldnt give me a logical answer, I've now started fooling around with my own impact line and address position with my PW and the the ball flight and ball speed are staggering, cant wait to get on the range and try it with the longer clubs (soon as it coold down a bit here in SYdney !)
i always thought, it's a matter of either let your wrists work through impact or let your shoulders and arms do the work. shoulders and arms is likely much more reliable. but if you are a naturally wristy player, it's very hard to change that. add more wrist, if you are a shoulder/arm guy, like jordan, it's a lot easier to do.
Nice! I'm a big believer in lag tension now. I've had a couple "light bulb" moments on the range when I felt like I've retained some and had some of the best ball strikes. I know what's on B's Christmas list....that slow-mo camera!
Chris Baker need that! U got a hole in one too! (Taking partial credit for that) Also I would stick to the slow mo presses (I can show you) for you and have u avoid the impact bag fast swings because of your golfers/ tennis 🎾 elbow
@@BEBETTERGOLF yeah, I had been beating a makeshift impact bag and it definitely made my tennis elbow way worse! You certainly get some credit for that hole-in-one....just wish my old man eyes allowed me to see it!
If you're having trouble accomplishing this move, start the back swing with a little forward press. Definitely allows a better strike but to me, the biggest benefit is seeing the ball better. My hands are out of the way when I strike it.
I know this is old but what looking at your other post about controversy about lag tension and looking for name. To me it seems like the arm/club lever has tension for in slightly different directions unless "lag tension" is zero. The tension in the club lever pulling on the arm lever can be broken into 2 components relative to arm lever: normal force and shear force. The shear direction is perpendicular to arm lever thus maybe it could be called shear tension? But that might not be specific enough because there are other places shear forces could arise. Maybe lag shear tension?
On the first drill, I think of a much safer way to do this is if you have a push-up bar with a foam handle where you grip the bar. Place the plastic legs parallel to the target between the foot line and the target line, then align the top bar in-line with the left toe (right-handed). Then do the drill as on the video. It also looks like the end result of having lag tension is a more abbreviated finish position. I see this with the PGA Tour pros.
This is what Advanced Ball Striking and Bradley Hughes Golf have been teaching for years. Acceleration through the ball keeps pressure on the shaft and stabilizes the clubface.
I've been listening to Bradley Hughes for quite some time. His drills have improved my swing a great degree! Shot a 77 last year for my lowest round ever. I'm 68 years old and play from middle tees.
I get the point but to be honest, there isn’t much difference at all. You could easily just draw the line differently to state the goal you have in mind. Obviously I’m not there to see the results (I believe you), but I would want to see more than a picture and a drawing. How about some numbers like dynamic loft, attack angle, path, ball speed, clubhead speed, etc. The golf swing is much more than pretty pictures and like Monty has said before-chasing a pretty picture of lag is not the point.
You are right, their is little to distinguish a difference between the swings but there is a small difference and that was achieved in one swing. It shows Davis has a very good understanding and ability to make that change is such a short period of time. It also goes to show there is a big difference between "Feel & Real". To make a small improvement to have Lag Tension at Impact felt to Davis like he was making a big change.
Totally agree and to me the most important part, where did the ball go. He said he hit the first one great with a nice little draw so who cares about the picture.
My DST 8 iron is the best gadget to teach anyone how to hit an iron like a Pro. If any level amateur would try the DST and follow the instructions, the results are immediate. If teachers would try this with new players, I believe they will learn the correct swing from the start. The reason is, you can't hit the DST with bad habits ( over top, not transferring weight, etc), only with the correct swing you'll be able to hit it. Thanks for the video.
I too found that previously to be a problem. Now I understand that my hand path needs to be better and I need to combine it with much better rotation of the rest of my body. It is not about holding off club through impact -which I tried before- with disastrous results!
@@maralvor Exactly. There are 2 different paths. Hand path and club head path. Do Not force your hands at the ball during the strike. The hands need to be inside the clubhead path. No shanks for sure. Then you'll create lag without holding on to it.
Chris Willis Chris U got it. I NEVER knew what Moe meant by FOCUSED INDIFFERENCE until very recently. It seems like a oxymoron until you get it and the u realize even more the genius of moe
@@BEBETTERGOLF how about, 'An attentive attitude of indifference' I meant with the lag, can't remember where but someone asked him what he feels like when he hits the ball and boom his arms went out and his wrists back and that blade was wide open. Just like putting the club against the wall. check out his 'thoughts on performance' moenormangolf.com/moe-norman/moes-swing-thoughts/
Let me simplify. Maintain the cupped angle in your trailing wrist through impact. This guy had it in both swings. He simply had more angle in the second swing. There ya go.
Interesting training aid. I can see a two, or three, handicapper really benefiting. But honestly, a mid handicapper has so much more going on with their swing, I would think lag would be down the list of needed improvements.
Frank, After Grip Stance Posture and Alignment, THE MOST IMPORTANT element for a club golfer to learn and practice is the IMPACT POSITION. When a golfer understands and feels where impact is they will understand and feel how to deliver their body and club to achieve it. Without this Impact Awareness, golfers can develop a technically pretty backswing but things tend to fall apart in the downswing. By which I mean their weight transfer and body rotation stalls and they are forced to reach full extension prior to impact. There are no quick fixes here, but by having a better understanding of the optimal impact position can help golfers improve very quickly.
8:43 Bertie says it's not about how much you have but you must have some. 96 percent of amateurs have less than zero. 1 1 2 ENG Justin Rose 2-3 inches 2 2 1 USA Brooks Koepka a TON 3 3 3 USA Dustin Johnson . a TON 4 4 4 USA Justin Thomas a lot 5 5 5 USA Bryson DeChambeau retains it beautifully, not a lot but there. 6 6 10 USA Xander Schauffer good amount with driver less with irons but still there 7 7 6 ESP Jon Rahm the most in the world 8 8 8 NIR Rory McIlroy A lot 9 9 7 ITA Francesco Molinari 1-2 inches it looks like to me definitely the least on the list but still there. More with irons. 10 10 9 USA Tony Finau A TON
Very similar philosophy to Kelvin Miyahira. I was under the impression that ROC has nothing to do with dispersion (accuracy)? Also how is holding lag tension not considered handle dragging if it appears to my untrained eye he is delaying the release. Thanks for sharing the video great stuff.
I saw that same ROC to handicap graph I think you are talking about. I'd have to dig more into how that was made. The issue is a little more complicated, once you reach full extension some people can flash flip it more closed or twist it more open, some can't so the numbers are all over the place. Pro can repeat. So it's not really about ROC but about controlling the face, whether it's closing fast or slow. There is another drill BC show about pressure points that makes this more clear. Also it's handle dragging when only the arms are being thrust forward with the body totally frozen. I see people demonstrating it in the pieces but usually when people actually swing they handle drag in transition then flip like hell in the second part of the downswing and by impact they are flipped out and broken. That was exactly my swing when I started the channel, I was trying my damndest to handle drag and hold the lag and ended up doing the exact opposite of what I wanted. So it's NOT about holding anything or even delaying the release it's just about convincing yourself (by retraining your motor program) to hit to somewhere other than the ball. without a ball and just trying to do something different you'll hit every "position" the pros of your same body type and flexibility level hit. it's the easier thing in the world. transferring it to doing it through the golf ball is very difficult and anything that can help your with that transference is worth it's weight in gold literally. I can tell u more if you send me an email contactbebettergolf@gmail.com
Handle dragging occurs when the downswing is started with an arm move. In other words the arms and hands work independently from the body. Their won't be any sensation of holding an angle if the downswing is initiated with a lateral weight shift and body rotation.
BE BETTER GOLF The ROC graph still had a fairly tight standard deviation whereas a lot of club golfers are on the extreme of that range or outside it. It’s a less random scatter plot that say, the AoA graph with driver and the incredibly misleading and out of context ‘tour average is -1’. Better ball strikers have a stable clubface post impact irrespective of the rate of closure from p6. Ben Hogan for instance had an unbelievably high pre impact ROC. His post impact clubface was incredibly stable.
No. It is hitting the ball before full extension (when the club and lead forearm comes in line). With driver you bbg want basically zero shaft lean but u still want to hit the ball before the driver shaft and lead forearm line up (full extension) Shaft lean and lag tension are mutually exclusive
very good video. i would like to see these swings on a tracman.r so we can objectively see the ball flight with direction .one thing to have great lag tension but results of the ball need to confirm this. thanks john
Hi John, unfortunately, on this particularly wet day, Trackman wasn't available to us! Should you want to see the difference between good ball strikers from the European Tour versus club golfers in real time shot with a outtakes from a 500fps camera then check out the video gallery on our website DSTGolf.com
James, good question, trail side tilt is important, but not to be confused with torso rotation. If the player rotates their torso towards the target further it produces the appearance of side tilt it is intact simply improved torso rotation, this allows the lead hip to clear out of the way that allows the player to get the handle into a position that produces Lag Tension. If a player does not rate their torso towards the target, the trail shoulder stays higher producing the appearance of no side tilt. This in turn forces the player to throw their trail arm and club at the ball. Resulting in full extension being reached prior to impact.
Hi Scott, the impact geometry achieved when you have lag tension is the same for swing paths coming from in-to-out or out-to-in. In other words the only thing that changes is the swing path. The same is also true with different clubs. So naturally we don't want shaft lean with a driver but we do want Lag Tension. This is achieved because with a driver the ball position is opposite our lead heal. So the Impact Line ensures the shaft will trail an extension of the lead forearm and produce a shallow Angle of Attack
Andy, Good observation. George's student have lag tension at impact. Like some comments on here, optimal impact is nothing new. What is a real breakthrough however, is having the DST Impact Line on all of your clubs. This enables players to familiarise themselves of the optimal impact position so they can understand and feel it before each and every shot they play. Whether that is on the range or the course. Think of it this way, once you can locate the hand position you need to reach at impact it becomes simple to synchronize your downswing sequence to reach it.
I've always tricked my mind by pretending the ball is 2 to 3 inches in front of my real ball during my swing. This works for me however, I still cant seem to get my hips clear. Getting old ain't for 🐱's.
Good vid and agree solmo swings easy. At full speed not so much. I guess just have to.practice it and see if it shows up on vid and better smashfactor numbers?
Hi Seth, Handle drag is when the hands and arms work independently from the torso. In other words starting the downswing with an arm only move. If a player has handle drag the challenge the player faces is with squaring the face up at impact. More often than not a player will have an open face at impact. Lag Tension at impact reached through the correct sequencing of the kinematic chain (feet, legs, torso, arms, then hands) produces, an impact position with a players weight being transferred into their lead side, good body rotation towards the target and Lag Tension at Impact.
Don't think this is handle dragging teaching where you got lots lag going down to ball then you have to release club to square it up This looks more body swing pivot with passive arms down to ball which club should naturally lag at impact from body to leading club throw with one roll release or hinge release which can be out of control, I like my right shoulder leading my club going out to ball leading club and staying on top of ball which encourages passive arms to naturally fling out to ball and get good power with no inconsistant release
Not an expert of course, but the club, hand etc...is not being dragged toward the target, that's still image illusion really IMO; the whole forearm, hand unit is going to make a sudden exit LEFT...for the professionals like Rahm...a violent one creating massive Cl.Head speeds. As I can try to understand it. The image of impact is not made up, the pros do not release like I do, I can tell you that...I hit a 7 iron 150 yds.. That's a 185--195 club for the average PGA tour pro..
5 лет назад+1
@@wreckim Exactly! 2D still images and 2D video camera angle makes illusion which is misleading all amateur golfers. If picture was from above golfer and shot downwards the hand path would be understandable. I have been doing exactly handle dragging but this winter I at last understood that hands needs to go low and left.
Hi Aidan, It is a service which is now available to have your irons Lasered with the DST Impact Lines. Essentially, the laser makes a small groove diagonally up and across the hosel as an extension from the leading groove on the club face. check it out on www.dstgolf.com
The DST Compressor (curved shafted training club) is a great club to ensure the golfer pivots well through impact. Should the hips or torso stall, the wrists will forces the club to flip.
This is the same snake oil Foley and Como preached to Tiger and it has its issues. Example good luck controlling distance as you turn that 8 into 7 real quick. It also creeps over into short game where you want less lag tension. The pros get buy with due to high swing speeds. Most ans struggle getting ball in air as it is and loft is their friend. Milaska basically said the exact opposite of this and I agree. Best way to control distance and launch is to deliver dynamic loft a couple degrees less than static loft. Especially at am swing speeds!!!
No snake oil, Thomas just physics! For amateurs with lower swing speeds having lag tension is especially important, because if they try and add loft to get the ball up in the air by staying back and flipping their wrists they instantly lose club face control, meaning a club face that rotates faster through impact, while also having a shaft in lead deflection adding dynamic loft which further destabilizes the face. Solid advice for amateurs with slower swing speeds is to loft up. Use a driver with 13 or more degrees of loft or even use a 3 wood.
@@Dstgolf i can agree to that. at 63 my speed is down to 80-85/w driver. i have it set to 12deg and do much better. my issues have always been with too much tilt and getting "stuck". that's when i "flip".
Not an expert, but if you look at the side-by-side at 10:58, both have forward shaft lean at impact. What is being taught as the "good" impact position is the one where if you draw a line through the forearm to the ground, the club is behind. The club leans forward at impact in both cases
Good idea Andy but the offset would need to be about 20cm! So not that practical and they won't conform with equipment standards. But you are correct a massive offset would ensure golfers learn to pivot better through impact.
No. I know what u mean but no. Davis was already so-so, but that small of a difference (3 inches or so) is a really big deal. Wish I had the numbers between those 2 shots. 245 carry 4 iron. (Down hill 29 feet) went just a little short than his previous 2 iron and felt effortless.
Oh, to draw the line. Go to impact and draw a line from the elbow to the middle of the left wrist. That works for 95 percent of ppl. If someone has a really bent left elbow (like Westwood) is the only case u draw it differently.
@@BEBETTERGOLF thank you - I was kind of just joking - I am totally intrigued and confused (have been for years) between (trying to) creating club head speed with a whipping action v bowed hand (or I like this concept of lag tension) - it feels difficult to do both..... or you end up trying to hold lag you shank it or push it.
Their are more drills coming Eddie that will provide good feels and exercises as to how you achieve these positions. If it were easy we'd all be on tour. The Impact Lines on your clubs will provide that constant reminder as to the Optimal Impact Position so you can take the feeling from the range out onto the course. @@Steadward67
DSTGolf I feel like you don’t need as much lag tension if you got slower club head speed .You need some foward lean but not as much to get the right ball flight. Thoughts ?
I know exactly what causes the thing you call "lag tension". Its not lag & its not tension. The before & after red lines are not lined up the same. The before goes through the middle of his hand & the after goes more through the front of his hand making it appear. There are 60 million golfers & they are all brainwashed & don't know it. Its their own minds that fool them.
BE BETTER GOLF me too. But whatever works, same message: you can lag something without ‘holding’ anything. I also think the biggest myth you dispelled here is that wristcock = lagpressure.
Drive hold impact conditions is the result of higher then average side bend, deep elbow drive, very open and more horizontal hips at impact, not to mention a host of other micro ingredients. It's also not an impact position achievable by everyone, and nor do most tour pros even have those conditions with exception of a handful like DJ & Champ. In other words major flexibility and strength. There's nothing wrong with the aspiring pros' swing in this video. In fact trying to get the above mentioned impact conditions could ruin someone's game.
Completely agree that not all golfers are made of flexible rubber. However that doesn't mean that golfers should not aspire to move in the right direction to have less flip, (dynamic loft and fast face rotation). The Impact Line improves a golfers awareness of where they should aspire to reach at impact. There are simple drills for less flexible golfers to achieve a better impact position to take the stress off their lower back and arms. Namely, pull the trail foot back to allow a less stressful turn in the back swing.
Point taken Alvaro, you're right Davis is a very talent golfer despite what label you place on him. The point we're making is, is that no matter what level of golfer you are having lag tension is critical and pro's as well as amateurs struggle with achieving it. The Impact Line is a simple way to train and play while being reminded of the exact position we all need to reach.
@@Dstgolf Point taken as well, Bertie, but I find it very misleading to say you changed an amateur swing in one swing when in fact you are giving someone with pro-level fundamentals an instruction he can apply in one swing because he is, in fact, pro level. No real amateur would do that in just one swing. I understand your point that lag tension is needed to hit the ball better, but I don't think that's the point I'm trying to bring home. By the way, this is not directed to you, or DST as a product. It's more towards Brendon and his _clickbaity_ title. Keep it up.
Seems to me unless you've got the hand/wrist/forearm strength of a tour pro, your not going to get anywhere near the lag tension of a pro no matter what you do. The average weekend hacker may not be able to hold any lag angle at all.
@@BEBETTERGOLF It seemed to me the drill shown in this video simply trains someone to hold the angle past the body. I don't see where sequence was addressed to increase the lag.
All this is just reducing dynamic loft. So long as you don’t hit down too much you will have less spin loft and the ball will feel more compressed. Problem is you will lose some back spin but the height will help. Thing is if you get in the rough you’re toast because you will want that extra spin so you’re not flying greens with your wedge. Less loft will give more ball speed as well.
Good points well made, only one observation. The player will be able to play better out of rough due to a steeper angle of attack, producing a cleaner ball then turf strike.
Half swing though.. not full swing there at the end... anyone can do Tommy Fleetwood swings but only the few can do Fred Couples swings with 'lag tension'...
jerryfalwellsociety you are right 1/2 swings easier but I Just asked Davis to confirm, in this case it was not a “half swing” the 4 iron went 245 in the air (downhill 20 feet) nearly as far as his 2 iron (the before club) went l. Davis said felt like effortless power.
Jerry good observation, I wouldn't be too critical of Davis swing though, it was a hell of a change in one swing and that was his first attempt. There were no retakes for editing purposes. By the way I wouldn't mind having Tommy Fleetwoods swing or his bank balance!
I think the term “lag tension” is an off putting buzz word, but what this guy is saying has merit. He is preaching a stable clubface supported by the rotation of the body. However, I think the fixation on forcing a 2D still frame at impact is a useless endeavor. There are an infinite number of reasons why a golfer has to throw away angles too early and none of them can be corrected by trying to force an impact position. A great number of those reasons are backswing issues.
Good points well made Patrick, we are not suggesting for a moment that the Impact Line is a quick fix and by having them on your clubs you'll suddenly start swinging like Rory McIlroy. We are merely saying the impact lines enable a golfer to locate the optimal handle position in order to have lag tension at impact. So by being aware of this position and reaching this position you'll have club head control. It's up to you or the swing coach/pro to help the player shallow the shaft in the downswing and square the club face up to the ball in the downswing to deliver the club face into impact. Sadly, 96% of golfers reach full extension prior to impact. The DST Impact Line is a tool to help the golfer use their clubs more effectively.
Choco it’s legal because you still have to execute a skill to get it to help. You have to do something active. Things that are passive are generally illegal - square grips, alignment clubs, coefficient of restitution.
That drill is straight up money!!! I friggin love it.
Hi Guys,
a nice video which is essentially covering a lot of the points made by Homer Kelley in the Golfing Machine all those years ago. Just one point - for the swing videos shot with the high-speed camera (Sony RX100) you can get rid of the clubshaft blur by setting the camera on shutter priority and then you can set the shutter speed around 1/2500 or even 1/3200 and that will give you clear clubshaft position through impact. I find that the camera copes fine with poor light.
Great Michael! Thanks for this!
I've only just seen his 1st swing. Beautifully crispy. 👍🏻
Thanks 👍
I find the thought of sweeping the club head through the ball to a couple inches in front of it helps to achieve this sort of position
Very informative video explaining the concept of lag pressure, and not to be confused with club head lag. Great video. Thank you for the insight. Cheers from Ottawa, Canada.
I have learned more about the back swing motion and down swing to impact in this video than in a thousand other instruction videos on RUclips. Golf should not be a hard as 99% of PGA "certified" instructors make it out to be. I am done watching a plethora of videos from umteen instructors. This is the end-all, be-all video. THANKS!
Awesome video 👍. My first golf teacher used to show me my impact position on video compared to pro players and it helped a lot to create lag. I got away from it over all these years and I don’t feel like I compress the ball at all now on most swings. Good stuff to work on for sure, thanks 🙏
This is as good an example as you'll find of the _right_ application of terms like "lag" and "pressure." So much misinformation out there, so many people advocating more extreme or wrongly-conceived versions of it. But this guy is dead solid.
The genius here is his insistence that it doesn't matter whether you're at full extension a couple of inches past or two or three feet past, you still get all to nearly all of the benefit as long as you're not on the negative side. Compare that with other people out there telling you to make it super-extreme, the more the better, etc., which is observably not true, especially if you listen to people who tell you to hold everything off all the way to the finish. It's one thing to let the release happen where it naturally does past the ball when force is applied; completely another to take an amateur who's already not releasing freely and fully and tell him to choke off the release even past the ball and into the finish.
One minor point: Rahm and Johnson aren't really representative examples, but more extreme examples used to make a point.
I'm sure Mr. Cordle would tell you that top players who have extra-strong grips and/or shut the face at the top have to make an extra-hard move with the body on the downswing and are going to have the lead forearm angled more toward the target than other top players who aren't quite so extreme. This is observable in any sequence photos of various great ballstrikers. But what _is_ true is that _no_ great strikers have the clubhead passing the lead forearm before impact.
All i can say is, wow!!! This is a game changer if you can execute it.
Most amateurs lag tension is a shank specialist!!
I remember talkin with a golf Pro Buddy of mine and asking why dont't we teach the ideal impact position as the address position, he really couldnt give me a logical answer, I've now started fooling around with my own impact line and address position with my PW and the the ball flight and ball speed are staggering, cant wait to get on the range and try it with the longer clubs (soon as it coold down a bit here in SYdney !)
Ange Gooner the handle needs to lead through the backswing too. That’s why you don’t setup in an impact position
i always thought, it's a matter of either let your wrists work through impact or let your shoulders and arms do the work. shoulders and arms is likely much more reliable. but if you are a naturally wristy player, it's very hard to change that. add more wrist, if you are a shoulder/arm guy, like jordan, it's a lot easier to do.
Nice! I'm a big believer in lag tension now. I've had a couple "light bulb" moments on the range when I felt like I've retained some and had some of the best ball strikes. I know what's on B's Christmas list....that slow-mo camera!
Chris Baker need that!
U got a hole in one too! (Taking partial credit for that)
Also I would stick to the slow mo presses (I can show you) for you and have u avoid the impact bag fast swings because of your golfers/ tennis 🎾 elbow
@@BEBETTERGOLF yeah, I had been beating a makeshift impact bag and it definitely made my tennis elbow way worse! You certainly get some credit for that hole-in-one....just wish my old man eyes allowed me to see it!
What's amazing is, Hogan figured this out without the benefit of high speed cameras, etc...
If you're having trouble accomplishing this move, start the back swing with a little forward press. Definitely allows a better strike but to me, the biggest benefit is seeing the ball better. My hands are out of the way when I strike it.
excellent video, thanks guys
I know this is old but what looking at your other post about controversy about lag tension and looking for name. To me it seems like the arm/club lever has tension for in slightly different directions unless "lag tension" is zero. The tension in the club lever pulling on the arm lever can be broken into 2 components relative to arm lever: normal force and shear force. The shear direction is perpendicular to arm lever thus maybe it could be called shear tension? But that might not be specific enough because there are other places shear forces could arise. Maybe lag shear tension?
On the first drill, I think of a much safer way to do this is if you have a push-up bar with a foam handle where you grip the bar. Place the plastic legs parallel to the target between the foot line and the target line, then align the top bar in-line with the left toe (right-handed). Then do the drill as on the video.
It also looks like the end result of having lag tension is a more abbreviated finish position. I see this with the PGA Tour pros.
Emilio Jesena I’m really trying to vision what you are describing. If u can email me a pic. Contactbebettergolf@gmail.com
Share this image please
This is what Advanced Ball Striking and Bradley Hughes Golf have been teaching for years. Acceleration through the ball keeps pressure on the shaft and stabilizes the clubface.
Les Murray Brad is The Man 🏌🏻♂️
Bradley is spot on!
I've been listening to Bradley Hughes for quite some time. His drills have improved my swing a great degree! Shot a 77 last year for my lowest round ever. I'm 68 years old and play from middle tees.
I get the point but to be honest, there isn’t much difference at all. You could easily just draw the line differently to state the goal you have in mind. Obviously I’m not there to see the results (I believe you), but I would want to see more than a picture and a drawing. How about some numbers like dynamic loft, attack angle, path, ball speed, clubhead speed, etc. The golf swing is much more than pretty pictures and like Monty has said before-chasing a pretty picture of lag is not the point.
Monte is amazing at impact.
You are right, their is little to distinguish a difference between the swings but there is a small difference and that was achieved in one swing. It shows Davis has a very good understanding and ability to make that change is such a short period of time. It also goes to show there is a big difference between "Feel & Real". To make a small improvement to have Lag Tension at Impact felt to Davis like he was making a big change.
Totally agree and to me the most important part, where did the ball go. He said he hit the first one great with a nice little draw so who cares about the picture.
Smash Factor numbers would sum up the whole situation perfectly, IMHO...
My DST 8 iron is the best gadget to teach anyone how to hit an iron like a Pro. If any level amateur would try the DST and follow the instructions, the results are immediate. If teachers would try this with new players, I believe they will learn the correct swing from the start. The reason is, you can't hit the DST with bad habits ( over top, not transferring weight, etc), only with the correct swing you'll be able to hit it.
Thanks for the video.
Thx V, yeah a lot of other things are too easy to cheat.
Wow the line is a great visual
Amazing intel here
I’ve been trying to reach this impact position for seems like forever. When I do get it, it’s usually a dead shank.
I too found that previously to be a problem. Now I understand that my hand path needs to be better and I need to combine it with much better rotation of the rest of my body. It is not about holding off club through impact -which I tried before- with disastrous results!
@@maralvor Exactly. There are 2 different paths. Hand path and club head path. Do Not force your hands at the ball during the strike. The hands need to be inside the clubhead path. No shanks for sure. Then you'll create lag without holding on to it.
Thankyou! 😊
Moe Norman described this feeling as how he feels when he hits the ball.
Chris Willis Chris U got it. I NEVER knew what Moe meant by FOCUSED INDIFFERENCE until very recently. It seems like a oxymoron until you get it and the u realize even more the genius of moe
@@BEBETTERGOLF how about, 'An attentive attitude of indifference'
I meant with the lag, can't remember where but someone asked him what he feels like when he hits the ball and boom his arms went out and his wrists back and that blade was wide open. Just like putting the club against the wall.
check out his 'thoughts on performance' moenormangolf.com/moe-norman/moes-swing-thoughts/
Let me simplify. Maintain the cupped angle in your trailing wrist through impact. This guy had it in both swings. He simply had more angle in the second swing. There ya go.
Interesting training aid. I can see a two, or three, handicapper really benefiting. But honestly, a mid handicapper has so much more going on with their swing, I would think lag would be down the list of needed improvements.
Frank, After Grip Stance Posture and Alignment, THE MOST IMPORTANT element for a club golfer to learn and practice is the IMPACT POSITION. When a golfer understands and feels where impact is they will understand and feel how to deliver their body and club to achieve it. Without this Impact Awareness, golfers can develop a technically pretty backswing but things tend to fall apart in the downswing. By which I mean their weight transfer and body rotation stalls and they are forced to reach full extension prior to impact. There are no quick fixes here, but by having a better understanding of the optimal impact position can help golfers improve very quickly.
DSTGolf z
Looks a lot like a nice S&T swing!
If one swings with the lead arm only the only way to hit the ball solid is with lag tension. Best ever drill to hit the ball solid.
8:43 Bertie says it's not about how much you have but you must have some. 96 percent of amateurs have less than zero.
1 1 2 ENG Justin Rose 2-3 inches
2 2 1 USA Brooks Koepka a TON
3 3 3 USA Dustin Johnson . a TON
4 4 4 USA Justin Thomas a lot
5 5 5 USA Bryson DeChambeau retains it beautifully, not a lot but there.
6 6 10 USA Xander Schauffer good amount with driver less with irons but still there
7 7 6 ESP Jon Rahm the most in the world
8 8 8 NIR Rory McIlroy A lot
9 9 7 ITA Francesco Molinari 1-2 inches it looks like to me definitely the least on the list but still there. More with irons.
10 10 9 USA Tony Finau A TON
Ordered! I Am hopefully Brendon! Thx for posting video and offering discount!
No Prob Louis thx
Bertie CORDLE is a genius !
U said it. He makes it obvious
Very similar philosophy to Kelvin Miyahira. I was under the impression that ROC has nothing to do with dispersion (accuracy)? Also how is holding lag tension not considered handle dragging if it appears to my untrained eye he is delaying the release. Thanks for sharing the video great stuff.
I saw that same ROC to handicap graph I think you are talking about. I'd have to dig more into how that was made. The issue is a little more complicated, once you reach full extension some people can flash flip it more closed or twist it more open, some can't so the numbers are all over the place. Pro can repeat. So it's not really about ROC but about controlling the face, whether it's closing fast or slow.
There is another drill BC show about pressure points that makes this more clear.
Also it's handle dragging when only the arms are being thrust forward with the body totally frozen. I see people demonstrating it in the pieces but usually when people actually swing they handle drag in transition then flip like hell in the second part of the downswing and by impact they are flipped out and broken. That was exactly my swing when I started the channel, I was trying my damndest to handle drag and hold the lag and ended up doing the exact opposite of what I wanted.
So it's NOT about holding anything or even delaying the release it's just about convincing yourself (by retraining your motor program) to hit to somewhere other than the ball. without a ball and just trying to do something different you'll hit every "position" the pros of your same body type and flexibility level hit. it's the easier thing in the world. transferring it to doing it through the golf ball is very difficult and anything that can help your with that transference is worth it's weight in gold literally. I can tell u more if you send me an email contactbebettergolf@gmail.com
Handle dragging occurs when the downswing is started with an arm move. In other words the arms and hands work independently from the body. Their won't be any sensation of holding an angle if the downswing is initiated with a lateral weight shift and body rotation.
soupra22 handle dragging is where you are inhibiting the release as well as lagging it. Release a lagging clubhead or lag a releasing clubhead.
BE BETTER GOLF The ROC graph still had a fairly tight standard deviation whereas a lot of club golfers are on the extreme of that range or outside it. It’s a less random scatter plot that say, the AoA graph with driver and the incredibly misleading and out of context ‘tour average is -1’. Better ball strikers have a stable clubface post impact irrespective of the rate of closure from p6. Ben Hogan for instance had an unbelievably high pre impact ROC. His post impact clubface was incredibly stable.
I also can draw lines in whatever angles to try to make a point that doesn't exist.
That's the clubhouse of Big Rec in Long Beach, CA, in the b.g. No wonder the the tees look so chewed up! It's a very heavily played muni track.
If it was good enough for Hogan, it's good enough for me. 16th and 17th hole I believe.
So Lag tension is another name for Forward shaft lean?
No. It is hitting the ball before full extension (when the club and lead forearm comes in line). With driver you bbg want basically zero shaft lean but u still want to hit the ball before the driver shaft and lead forearm line up (full extension)
Shaft lean and lag tension are mutually exclusive
@@BEBETTERGOLF thank you for the clarification.
very good video.
i would like to see these swings on a tracman.r so we can objectively see the ball flight with direction .one thing to have great lag tension but results of the ball need to confirm this.
thanks
john
Hi John, unfortunately, on this particularly wet day, Trackman wasn't available to us! Should you want to see the difference between good ball strikers from the European Tour versus club golfers in real time shot with a outtakes from a 500fps camera then check out the video gallery on our website DSTGolf.com
18th tee at Recreation Park in Long Beach, Ca
*Excellent advice!*
Tigersmundo Thx a lot TSM!
How important is trail side tilt to achieve this lag?
James, good question, trail side tilt is important, but not to be confused with torso rotation. If the player rotates their torso towards the target further it produces the appearance of side tilt it is intact simply improved torso rotation, this allows the lead hip to clear out of the way that allows the player to get the handle into a position that produces Lag Tension. If a player does not rate their torso towards the target, the trail shoulder stays higher producing the appearance of no side tilt. This in turn forces the player to throw their trail arm and club at the ball. Resulting in full extension being reached prior to impact.
Does this correlate with guys that fade the ball? I would think that all these guys pictured with more lag retention are faders of the ball?
I’ll ask Bertie
Hi Scott, the impact geometry achieved when you have lag tension is the same for swing paths coming from in-to-out or out-to-in. In other words the only thing that changes is the swing path. The same is also true with different clubs. So naturally we don't want shaft lean with a driver but we do want Lag Tension. This is achieved because with a driver the ball position is opposite our lead heal. So the Impact Line ensures the shaft will trail an extension of the lead forearm and produce a shallow Angle of Attack
Looks like you would want a body swing with passive arms to have lag tension like GG SwingTips
Andy, Good observation. George's student have lag tension at impact. Like some comments on here, optimal impact is nothing new. What is a real breakthrough however, is having the DST Impact Line on all of your clubs. This enables players to familiarise themselves of the optimal impact position so they can understand and feel it before each and every shot they play. Whether that is on the range or the course. Think of it this way, once you can locate the hand position you need to reach at impact it becomes simple to synchronize your downswing sequence to reach it.
Good shit guys
Thanks Billy!!!
I've always tricked my mind by pretending the ball is 2 to 3 inches in front of my real ball during my swing. This works for me however, I still cant seem to get my hips clear. Getting old ain't for 🐱's.
Good vid and agree solmo swings easy. At full speed not so much. I guess just have to.practice it and see if it shows up on vid and better smashfactor numbers?
Spot on Paul
How does this relate to hitting up on the ball with the driver?
I Am Mars same this just ball goes forward in stance and u hit more level
I understand the desirable impact position but how does it not become a "handle dragging" swing ?
Hi Seth, Handle drag is when the hands and arms work independently from the torso. In other words starting the downswing with an arm only move. If a player has handle drag the challenge the player faces is with squaring the face up at impact. More often than not a player will have an open face at impact. Lag Tension at impact reached through the correct sequencing of the kinematic chain (feet, legs, torso, arms, then hands) produces, an impact position with a players weight being transferred into their lead side, good body rotation towards the target and Lag Tension at Impact.
Don't think this is handle dragging teaching where you got lots lag going down to ball then you have to release club to square it up
This looks more body swing pivot with passive arms down to ball which club should naturally lag at impact from body to leading club throw with one roll release or hinge release which can be out of control, I like my right shoulder leading my club going out to ball leading club and staying on top of ball which encourages passive arms to naturally fling out to ball and get good power with no inconsistant release
Not an expert of course, but the club, hand etc...is not being dragged toward the target, that's still image illusion really IMO; the whole forearm, hand unit is going to make a sudden exit LEFT...for the professionals like Rahm...a violent one creating massive Cl.Head speeds. As I can try to understand it. The image of impact is not made up, the pros do not release like I do, I can tell you that...I hit a 7 iron 150 yds.. That's a 185--195 club for the average PGA tour pro..
@@wreckim Exactly! 2D still images and 2D video camera angle makes illusion which is misleading all amateur golfers. If picture was from above golfer and shot downwards the hand path would be understandable. I have been doing exactly handle dragging but this winter I at last understood that hands needs to go low and left.
Spot on Asko! Don't be confused by the term low left, in actual fact they exit impact on plane which "feels like" low left.@
seems to me like hes using his hips and legs a lot better at second attempt i maybe wrong
This again for me anyway just reiterates that the best golf swings are the ones with the fastest lead arms or hit it against the lead side the best
How did Bertie get those lines on his playing clubs? Is there a sticker or kit you can buy?
It is a service his company is providing. It’s a laser etching. The machine is in England tho.
Hi Aidan, It is a service which is now available to have your irons Lasered with the DST Impact Lines. Essentially, the laser makes a small groove diagonally up and across the hosel as an extension from the leading groove on the club face.
check it out on www.dstgolf.com
@@BEBETTERGOLF How bout a sharpie...comes right off with acetone (nail polis remover) if you want it gone or modified
I’m curious to know what camera Birdie was using 500 fps?
Sony RX 100 IV
Something else to try out at the range... Hopefully it doesn't break my swing XD
he stalls his hips at impact, big improvement though.
The DST Compressor (curved shafted training club) is a great club to ensure the golfer pivots well through impact. Should the hips or torso stall, the wrists will forces the club to flip.
This is the same snake oil Foley and Como preached to Tiger and it has its issues. Example good luck controlling distance as you turn that 8 into 7 real quick. It also creeps over into short game where you want less lag tension. The pros get buy with due to high swing speeds. Most ans struggle getting ball in air as it is and loft is their friend. Milaska basically said the exact opposite of this and I agree. Best way to control distance and launch is to deliver dynamic loft a couple degrees less than static loft. Especially at am swing speeds!!!
you and Bertie agree 8:43
No snake oil, Thomas just physics! For amateurs with lower swing speeds having lag tension is especially important, because if they try and add loft to get the ball up in the air by staying back and flipping their wrists they instantly lose club face control, meaning a club face that rotates faster through impact, while also having a shaft in lead deflection adding dynamic loft which further destabilizes the face. Solid advice for amateurs with slower swing speeds is to loft up. Use a driver with 13 or more degrees of loft or even use a 3 wood.
@@Dstgolf i can agree to that. at 63 my speed is down to 80-85/w driver. i have it set to 12deg and do much better. my issues have always been with too much tilt and getting "stuck". that's when i "flip".
Geez, The cameraman missies half the points...
Hit the Box
People geek out too much over this stuff. Just go out there and enjoy the day
Kelly Hill it’s no fun unless you can break par. Most people don’t geek out near enough
Kostas and other morons slobber over Sergio's 'extreme lag' early in his downswing. Kudos to your guest for recognising it is a 2d artefact.
A net or blanket works better than a bench
So how is this different from froward shaft lean at impact?
Cheers
Not an expert, but if you look at the side-by-side at 10:58, both have forward shaft lean at impact. What is being taught as the "good" impact position is the one where if you draw a line through the forearm to the ground, the club is behind. The club leans forward at impact in both cases
The discount could does not work for me.
Is this in England?
It might as well have been! Unfortunately from my perspective I flew 11 hours to have British Weather.
This is Recreation Park in Long Beach California my home course
Would not off set irons be similar to dst irons but not as strong learn to not draw/hoof off set irons
Good idea Andy but the offset would need to be about 20cm! So not that practical and they won't conform with equipment standards. But you are correct a massive offset would ensure golfers learn to pivot better through impact.
is the only difference not just how the red line has been drawn?
No. I know what u mean but no. Davis was already so-so, but that small of a difference (3 inches or so) is a really big deal. Wish I had the numbers between those 2 shots. 245 carry 4 iron. (Down hill 29 feet) went just a little short than his previous 2 iron and felt effortless.
Oh, to draw the line. Go to impact and draw a line from the elbow to the middle of the left wrist. That works for 95 percent of ppl. If someone has a really bent left elbow (like Westwood) is the only case u draw it differently.
@@BEBETTERGOLF thank you - I was kind of just joking - I am totally intrigued and confused (have been for years) between (trying to) creating club head speed with a whipping action v bowed hand (or I like this concept of lag tension) - it feels difficult to do both..... or you end up trying to hold lag you shank it or push it.
Their are more drills coming Eddie that will provide good feels and exercises as to how you achieve these positions. If it were easy we'd all be on tour. The Impact Lines on your clubs will provide that constant reminder as to the Optimal Impact Position so you can take the feeling from the range out onto the course.
@@Steadward67
DSTGolf I feel like you don’t need as much lag tension if you got slower club head speed .You need some foward lean but not as much to get the right ball flight. Thoughts ?
I know exactly what causes the thing you call "lag tension". Its not lag & its not tension. The before & after red lines are not lined up the same. The before goes through the middle of his hand & the after goes more through the front of his hand making it appear. There are 60 million golfers & they are all brainwashed & don't know it. Its their own minds that fool them.
Release a lagging golf club or lag a releasing golf club, whilst pivoting.
Interesting, that first one sounds better to me.
BE BETTER GOLF me too. But whatever works, same message: you can lag something without ‘holding’ anything.
I also think the biggest myth you dispelled here is that wristcock = lagpressure.
At 10:49 your lines are cheating.
Drive hold impact conditions is the result of higher then average side bend, deep elbow drive, very open and more horizontal hips at impact, not to mention a host of other micro ingredients. It's also not an impact position achievable by everyone, and nor do most tour pros even have those conditions with exception of a handful like DJ & Champ. In other words major flexibility and strength. There's nothing wrong with the aspiring pros' swing in this video. In fact trying to get the above mentioned impact conditions could ruin someone's game.
Completely agree that not all golfers are made of flexible rubber. However that doesn't mean that golfers should not aspire to move in the right direction to have less flip, (dynamic loft and fast face rotation). The Impact Line improves a golfers awareness of where they should aspire to reach at impact. There are simple drills for less flexible golfers to achieve a better impact position to take the stress off their lower back and arms. Namely, pull the trail foot back to allow a less stressful turn in the back swing.
There should be a straight like from the forearm into the shaft.. this bowed wrist, "lag" is not conducive to good results!
I wouldn't call a +3 an amateur, Brendon. Despite him not officially being pro, he is pro level.
Point taken Alvaro, you're right Davis is a very talent golfer despite what label you place on him. The point we're making is, is that no matter what level of golfer you are having lag tension is critical and pro's as well as amateurs struggle with achieving it. The Impact Line is a simple way to train and play while being reminded of the exact position we all need to reach.
@@Dstgolf Point taken as well, Bertie, but I find it very misleading to say you changed an amateur swing in one swing when in fact you are giving someone with pro-level fundamentals an instruction he can apply in one swing because he is, in fact, pro level. No real amateur would do that in just one swing. I understand your point that lag tension is needed to hit the ball better, but I don't think that's the point I'm trying to bring home. By the way, this is not directed to you, or DST as a product. It's more towards Brendon and his _clickbaity_ title. Keep it up.
Seems to me unless you've got the hand/wrist/forearm strength of a tour pro, your not going to get anywhere near the lag tension of a pro no matter what you do. The average weekend hacker may not be able to hold any lag angle at all.
Elite Junior golfers with twigs for arms have it. You can’t get it by holding it anyway. It’s a sequence and intention issue.
@@BEBETTERGOLF It seemed to me the drill shown in this video simply trains someone to hold the angle past the body. I don't see where sequence was addressed to increase the lag.
How about for australian viewers? :(
He looks like the younger brother of Tommy Lee Jones.
Have cameraman show hands when doing a demonstration that involves the grip & hands. Often camera showing face & not grip.
Interesting 🤔
All this is just reducing dynamic loft. So long as you don’t hit down too much you will have less spin loft and the ball will feel more compressed. Problem is you will lose some back spin but the height will help. Thing is if you get in the rough you’re toast because you will want that extra spin so you’re not flying greens with your wedge. Less loft will give more ball speed as well.
Good points well made, only one observation. The player will be able to play better out of rough due to a steeper angle of attack, producing a cleaner ball then turf strike.
Half swing though.. not full swing there at the end... anyone can do Tommy Fleetwood swings but only the few can do Fred Couples swings with 'lag tension'...
jerryfalwellsociety you are right 1/2 swings easier but I Just asked Davis to confirm, in this case it was not a “half swing” the 4 iron went 245 in the air (downhill 20 feet) nearly as far as his 2 iron (the before club) went l. Davis said felt like effortless power.
Anyone but me must be able to do Tommy Fleetwood swings
Brendan, case closed =)
@@BEBETTERGOLF Nope, 'fraid not. The camera doesn't lie... hold-off finish. That wasn't a 'full' swing whether he thought it was or not. lol
Jerry good observation, I wouldn't be too critical of Davis swing though, it was a hell of a change in one swing and that was his first attempt. There were no retakes for editing purposes. By the way I wouldn't mind having Tommy Fleetwoods swing or his bank balance!
Bullpoo ,splatter instruction
I think the term “lag tension” is an off putting buzz word, but what this guy is saying has merit. He is preaching a stable clubface supported by the rotation of the body. However, I think the fixation on forcing a 2D still frame at impact is a useless endeavor. There are an infinite number of reasons why a golfer has to throw away angles too early and none of them can be corrected by trying to force an impact position. A great number of those reasons are backswing issues.
Good points well made Patrick, we are not suggesting for a moment that the Impact Line is a quick fix and by having them on your clubs you'll suddenly start swinging like Rory McIlroy. We are merely saying the impact lines enable a golfer to locate the optimal handle position in order to have lag tension at impact. So by being aware of this position and reaching this position you'll have club head control. It's up to you or the swing coach/pro to help the player shallow the shaft in the downswing and square the club face up to the ball in the downswing to deliver the club face into impact. Sadly, 96% of golfers reach full extension prior to impact. The DST Impact Line is a tool to help the golfer use their clubs more effectively.
its legal because it doesn't help
Choco it’s legal because you still have to execute a skill to get it to help. You have to do something active. Things that are passive are generally illegal - square grips, alignment clubs, coefficient of restitution.