Why Is WoW Dying?
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Why did World of Warcraft recently lose nearly 3 million subscribers? Let's have a look at some of the things happening in WoW and the current state of the game.'
At the moment there's a lot of crap being thrown around about the game. While some of it has merit, a lot is just mad people being mad.
I'll have a look at some of the big things people are talking about and tell you what I think. Keep in mind that everything in this video is my personal opinion and should be treated as such.
First things first - the game really isn't easier than it used to be. Having more than one difficulty is probably the main reason - lfr is not mythic. Back in the day you didn't have any other option but 'Ragnaros'. Imagine if you didn't have any option besides mythic. Not only that, but you can learn how your class currently works in a fraction of the time it actually takes to figure that exact information out. A lot of people are doing the leg work so you can read a paragraph or two of text and perform well. The same goes for raid encounters. You watch and read guides instead of going in blind and figuring out your own strats.
There's a few other things to talk about, too! So let's get to the video.
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Too much raiding talk honestly.
World of Warcraft is dying because it is no longer an MMO, it is now a collection of mini-games that you queue up for. It has lost the need to socialize with anyone.
MMOs, not just WoW, need a huge injection of fresh ideas.
MrTechFox i totally agree with you, you just summarized the whole problem in one sentence.
MrTechFox Agree, it's like paying each months for a f2p.
MrTechFox
Then what would you do? Sandbox MMO's which what old school MMO were, are not popular. Wildstar proved that hard content (both leveling and engame) was not what people wanted.
The problem is the new players that start playing these games come from playing singleplayer RPG's or android-type mini games. The old players have started working and don't have the time so they need "Rollercoaster" MMO's like WoW.
It's an awkward place to be.
Mushrakun But the argument isnt about WoW being hard or not. If anything WoW is at its hardest. Vanilla boss mechanics were a joke. The average player now is way better than in Vanilla. The only real problem nowadays is lack of content that isnt menu clicking. WoD to me in terms of what is being brought in as "new" stuff like garrison and apexis crystals seems a huge step backwards from dailies and valor points.
Diavolo222
Well they are adding mythic dungeons that you have to construct your own groups now. Although the difficulty is still a joke.
If they can make people scale down in ilvl in "old" content like the hc dungeons (similar tu challenge mode) and add rewards that make ppl want to do them again (valor system ofc)...
I never did dailies but I do prefer the valor system.
Wow has dug themselves a hole, they wanted more accesibility but at the same time they made their content so easy to go through (no hard time dumps) that ppl (outside of raiding) just don't have anything to do.
Also just wanted to say this:
The Sunwell raid was the pinnacle of WoW excellence. Recapture that magic and WoW will return. And in all honesty, we all know the heart of WoW's story ended with the fall of The Lich King.
mercilessv I quit with his death. WOW died with Arthas. Its kinda like Star Wars without Vader. This is why i think the new Star Wars movie will suck IN COMPARISON (they could still be good!) to the originals. WOW thought you could just introduce new villians that were bigger, stronger, older, etc than Arthas and everything would be fine. Wrong.
The two of you are on fucking point
mercilessv Instead of a nice raiding tier we got a selfiecam. I suppose that will suffice too!
K. Rahimi Although it was a neat way to revamp the original continents, Cata was when the story started to slip for me. MoP made me turn my head sideways suspiciously at blizz, then when they announced WoD i knew it was done. I started playing in 2005 and i want to kill sargeras before i die, and where they
re going with these expansions it seems like blizz activision is gonna squeeze every last drop of juice out and then just make WC4 for Sargeras and turn their back on my 100+days played.
beautifully said
I agres with a lot of your points, but will you stop beating on LFR raiders? People don't want to join raiding guilds because they don't want to deal with all the elitism and idiotic guild poltics. If you want more raiders, then make your guilds more accessible instead of keeping to yourself in the circle of elitism. By the way, I don't raid in LFR, but I understand there is a problem that needs to be fixed. Sorry, but its not all LFR's fault.
Michael Henry It's not LFRs fault at all, it's people and their attitudes. LFR is just the scapegoat because it pretends to be something it isn't. Peoples view of LFR needs to change before the rest of the dominoes fall into place.
***** True. Although I think its safe to say that LFR raiders really have no reason to jump into all the guild nonsense. I mean, what can raiding normal+ give them, that's worth all the trouble? I honestly have no motivation to do something above LFR if it means being ensnared into some 'idiotness.'
Michael Henry That fully depends on what you want from a guild. Some aren't just about progression, they can be about the social aspect as much as the raiding aspect. Having a laugh and downing some bosses in normal is fun with a group of like minded folk. The hardcore mythic grind isn't for everyone.
***** I completely agree. The reason LFR has to be as easy as it is, is because people simply don't play well together. They don't care about the content, they just want gear to go solo old content for mount with, or to gear some alt out of boredom. LFR should be more like real raids, but it can't be, and it's the players' fault, not LFR's.
***** This is one of the many attitudes that needs to stop. This attitude indicates that raiding is better in all forms, and that sort of elistism is one of the many things that discourages LFR raiders to join a guild. You may think: 'Well, I wasn't trying to be elitist.' It's sort of a passive-aggression. This gives off a message that LFR players are somehow inferior to normal+ raiders. Elistism discourages 'real' raiding.
The main reason WoW is loosing subscribers (and I can't believe no one has picked up on this) is because times have changed. The Blizzard devs hit the nail on the head when they said this. 10 Years ago, MMO's where new, there was not much choice in the genre.
The community that used to play during WOTLK have all grown up and moved on, have kids, got jobs and most don't have time for games anymore. The younger generation from the past five to six years have grown up playing games, but on smart phones and tablets. My nephew who is 17 now wont play wow because he says its "old" and "Dated", in fact, he does not even play games on the PC anymore, just on his tablet. Its the same with Facebook, that website is now starting to loose users because the younger generation think that it is dated and are looking towards other apps like Tumblr and Snapchat. Times change, the age range for players back in Vanilla was 19-30, all them people now are 29-40 and moved on with their lives. Most players in my old BC guild all have kids now ..... grown up and moved on from WOW. I agree that changes in the game have contributed to players as well, you only have to look at someone like Totalbuiscut to see that, but vanilla servers are out there, and don't have nowhere near the same about of players WoW did back in 2006.
No one can go back in time and relive their gaming life ten years ago, even tho we all want to, its called nostalgia, and instead of crying and moaning about figures and numbers, lets just enjoy it while it is still alive, because tomorrow it could be gone and then it will be just a memory...
Truth speaker.
+Markyboy28 yep, i was already 24/25 when i started playing, now im nearly 34. times change, its hard to keep something fresh without changing the core of what it is and keeping everyone happy.
+Markyboy28 Well said, gamer culture is just as significant as design choices, if not more so.
+Markyboy28 Wow, thank you for saying that! This actually explains all the problems and feelings everyone shares :)
+Markyboy28 Your nephew doesn't play computer games because he's a cancerous, ADD riddled noob that doesnt understand that cool things require hard work. "Times have changed", real specific.
Playing games on consoles, smartphones and other small shitty devices is what really fucked computer games for the more intelligent groups of people that used to play them.
It wasn't instant gratification. It was putting in some effort to get something worth while, and a sense of achievement.
This notion of "getting through leveling to get to the real game" is what got wow in this situation in the first place.
Its debatable by those who have invested 10+ years into this game that it should even be that way to begin with.
Why shouldn't the game begin the moment you start a new character.
Magnum Mustache yes..Draenor could have been a new leveling from 1 zone, and not just an echo of vanilla, but just like it, with the newer better art and such...mistake has been extending expansions that make previous expansions obsolete...now with boa gear one just races through everything, and in Draenor the gear is so easy to get that the quest leveling hasn't the challenge it once had...quests pvp pve are all different but have gotten all mushed together into one mantra..gear for raiding...'what's your ilvl?'....when I first discovered pvp bgs, I was ridiculed mercilessly for not having 'looms' on...I didn't know what they were...I started playing a year or so before mop, and lament that I'll never be able to do the early expansions like they were, and that everyone who did them is nostalgic for...I like the bgs, and think to just use gear from the quests and dungeons to make like an ilvl 65 'twink' with the gems and enchants and all, but I wouldn't be able to stand against those with looms...I studied a hunter twink at this level, transmogs, the standard looms, but with enchants, the other gear gemmed and enchanted. but it was a leveling random bg, and we lost, though the hunter did very well. and I scratched my head, "dude, you're gonna lose all that if your xp is on"...
Magnum Mustache Its does cata redid the entire lvling process, the fact is though eventually you get to max level and you need something to do then. SWTOR had in my experience the best lvling process, but its almost dead because there was fuck all to do at the end.
Magnum Mustache "Why shouldn't the game begin the moment you start a new character."
That's how Vanilla, TBC and Wrath were set up. Leveling was the game along with the dungeons, professions and raids.
I don't know where this idea came from that the current raid tier at max level was "the game". I think it was started by people who didn't even play Vanilla and were extremely misinformed about it.
Magnum Mustache It used to be like that, I remember building my character, going to dungeons, mining, smithing etc etc They removed and invalidated everything and sped it up to "skip it" because instead of making it fun, they made it sad by releasing cataclysm and wreaking the world.
Bloodstainer I wish I could've been in those times as a new player ive brought this game and it feels like a chore to level and I feel like im forcing myself to like it because the levelling experience isint fun I feel shit compared to the max level players in goldshire in who can do everything and have better looking armour than me and im just wearing rags this is the problem and people saying the game hasn't started till you reached caps on the forums when I say this and im like why should the game start at level cap it should start at the beginning it should make evolving your character fun but all I do everyday is rush levelling because of this plus in dungeons if you make a mistake the community is toxic they will make you hurt to the core if you make on slip up to the point you just wanna turn of the computer and not play the game you brought with a month of gametime ever again I might leave this game.I wanna see this vanilla tbc and wrath everyone talk about where its fun from the start aand throughout and the community is real and talks!
Blizzard takes this into account. They release a new expansion, cash in big time, gain a lot of subscribers, and then they start losing subscribers again. But losing those doesn´t matter! Those people already paid. And guess what, they will be back next expansion, paying again. This is why World of Warcraft has always been Blizzard favorite money cow and they are not yet finished furiously milking that bitch.
Guy Random Ah, somebody telling it like it is. Summing up the fickle in a single phrase "They will be back next expansion". I salute you, sir.
Guy Random The problem is that revenue will go down. Hell, Blizzard has openly stated that the only reason revenue is stable is because of price increases and cosmetic items. The skinner box business model they rely on doesn't work for brining in new players reliably, while also making it more likely that players who leave will not come back.
Current player levels have not been so low since 2006, a whole 9 years ago, and is almost down to half of its highest level back in 2010. WoD was a chance to reverse the lowering player count, and it failed miserably. Unless they suddenly start making expansions every year instead of every few years, because it's very realistic that the next expansion may be released at a time where the game has reached 5 million users.
Will the game survive? Sure, it isn't even going to be on the board for "at risk" until it dips below 1 million, but will it recover from this? Unlikely, and it has probably long past its peak user ship, and will probably never return to an 8 digit user base again.
I dunno what happened... People used to flood Silver Moon city, dancing around and getting drunk, all the high level players offering copper to noobs... Groups of blood elves talking about how they're gonna bring sexy back. There used to be people I looked up to. Players I followed. Players that helped me when I was just a noob. Now, no-one really goes to silver moon, no-one drinks beer for fun... No more Stormwind raiding... No more waves of orcs flooding it... No more kobold farming. No more nice people. No more community activity.
There are... Elitist jerks. Unbalanced PvP. That horrible Warlock nerf.
The game has just become a strive to get to max level, so you can join a random guild just for raids and pvp. It seems WoW is just Raiding and PvP now.
It's both the community, and the game.
I'm gonna go try and start a conversation in WoW.
I can't even get into a dungeon unless I roll Tank or Healer.
+Hyper Pheonix absolutely right
To me, its just over simplification to try and attract a wider audience. Game is too simple.
+Stephen Vincent Yes and no. It as if it is too simple but it should be more difficult to obtain various items as well as mounts, making that more difficult could divide good and really good players as well as it would encourage players to play more because all of them would want that "thing" that one of their friends has.
This whole difficult vs hard thing is just semantics. It is a very obvious fact that vanilla had one difficulty setting and you either managed that or you didn`t, while current WoW lets anyone (And I do mean anyone) finish everything with a very limited time investment. It took longer to level to 60 in vanilla than it now does to level to 100, even if you don`t just get a level 90 character handed to you when you get your account. It used to take a huge effort to do anything in WoW, including leveling up and everything from farming mats to forming groups of people. And that was just to get raid related stuff opened and everyone attuned before you even got to the part about boss difficulty. In vanilla just entering a raid instance could be a huge victory in some cases.
So forget that and try having a look at which was more involved and it`s not even close. Vanilla and to a lesser extent TBC forced you to cooperate with other people long term if you wanted PVE progression past five man pugs. My last login was at the end of Cataclysm and because of multiple difficulties (Horrible idea 1) I could kill any boss in the game in green gear immediately after leveling, without even talking to anybody. Easy mode sure, but the same boss. So who cares about raid progression then? I know I didn`t.
Because of instance/pvp queues (Horrible idea 2) I also never had to go anywhere and the entire game world was very close to pointless. Just back and forth between the bank, the AH and the mail box while waiting for the queue to pop. I never even had to talk to anyone. And even if I did chances are they are playing on a different server and I`ll never talk to them again. MMORPG my ass!
Add in the trivialization of all forms of transportation, resource management, social interactions, CC, trash mobs etc and you`re basically spending all your time in impersonal queues before doing streamlined dungeons with all threat of failure removed, rather than in a massive and persistent game world with other, persistent (No x-realm in vanilla) players. You can go anywhere from anywhere in principle, but you never need to because of queues. And that makes the game world both smaller and pointless at the same time. The size and inconvenience was a part of the difficulty in Vanilla. You needed to be organized and somewhat effective and the game rewarded that. And it meant everything from organizing farming and gear runs to making sure everyone came at least somewhat prepared. Every class had something that trained players to be responsible for their stuff, and especially so when it came to raids. Warriors needed stones and leveled weapon skills; both removed. Hunters needed ammo; removed. Druids needed symbols and forms; one removed and the other trivialized. Mages needed to prepare for whatever they were doing by making an appropriate amount of water; removed with tables. And we mustn`t forget the most destroyed class of them all. the shaman. Shamans needed ankhs and mats for WW and WB, as well as iron control over four totem groups; It was hard just to play a shaman. Finding someone who played a shaman well was a rare and beautiful thing in vanilla and TBC. But to some extent it`s the same across the board with every class. And all of this tedium was there for a reason, and hard simply because you needed people who would just get all this crap done without having to be reminded all the time. For a new player in Vanilla, managing these humdrum things showed other players that they were willing to work at it to get better. You can`t just look at boss mechanics to determine difficulty but need to look at the overall challenge of putting a successful raid together as well as the demands made by the game for developing a character and preparing it for high end gaming activities. And to be honest WoW after TBC doesn`t even compare.
The game I quit for good in 2012 wasn`t even an MMORPG. In my view WoW is now an O. It wasn`t massive anymore because everything has been automated. It didn`t encourage social interaction and teamwork at all (if anything it actively discourages it) and was barely a multiplayer game really. And because classes were homogenized it wasn`t really much of an RPG either. So that leaves us with an online, um, experience. The rest of the letters have been gradually removed by Blizzard. And that`s why the subs have dropped.
As far as I`m concerned all these "improvements" should be scrapped and the game should go back to one raid format. And that should be very hard. Raiding is supposed to be very hard, meaning both boss encounters as well as gearing up for the raids and leveling a character to be able to raid. Don`t have the time or inclination for that kind of gameplay then don`t raid. And don`t play MMORPGs. Or at least just do PVP or something instead and stop ruining the MMORPG genre. And it`s not just about training raiders as if they`re dogs. It`s about making the game feel epic precisely because to most people there`s always something new you`re probably never gonna be able to do. There`s long term progress. Not rushing through LFR to "see the content" and then unsubbing, or killing everything in every new xpac in three weeks and unsubbing while you wait for the next one. Basic human psychology is that if you give someone what they say they want they just want something else as soon as they get it. Making easy mode possible just makes people run out of content. And people running out of content in an MMORPG (Which WoW is not...) = loss of subs.
And when it comes to the class homogenization it needs to be reversed. Dual hybrids need to have lower DPS than DPS specialists and triple hybrids need to have lower DPS than dual hybrids. That was there for a very good reason and fostered the teamwork any MMORPG needs if it is to have good gameplay. When this was removed the DPS specialist classes became worse than the hybrids by default, simply because the hybrids could fill more than one role. So why would you roll a specialist then? This is all just Blizzard giving in to little kids and their whining: little kids who have no idea how to design games but want instant gratification and an OP character because they don`t understand that it destroys the game. An MMORPG NEEDS the Trifecta to be powerful. That wasn`t added to be inconvenient but emerged gradually over decades of RPG development, precisely to give players a reason to cooperate with each other. When one character can do everything this goes right out the window.
Queues need to be removed to buff the game world so it becomes a factor in the game again. And they also need to be removed to force players to talk to each other, socialize and work together to achieve lofty goals. If queues are not removed WoW will stay a pointless browser game with a chatline nobody uses except to troll, hurl abuse and spam ads.
As for the general statement that the game seems easier now because people know better how to play that`s definitely true to an extent, and certainly when looking at vanilla. But people had addons in TBC as well and thousands of people were talking online about how to do things back then, just as they are now. But mostly raids (And five man dungeons btw. When was the last time WoW had a hard five man in it?) were so damn hard that this only got you so far. As far as tuning goes TBC was harder than vanilla and much harder than Wrath. Even now you can go back and read delicious whine fests about TBC bosses because people just couldn`t do them no matter how many addons they downloaded or how many boss kill videos they watched. There were full raids of 80s that couldn`t do SWP during Wrath even ten levels above the intended level. So don`t even try to compare raiding post TBC to that. It`s ridiculous. Blizzard even said so at the time. "We`ll never make another raid instance as hard as SWP again" and " we are changing the game to a more casual experience", both direct quotes from 2008 Blizzcon.
Fishslap 33 well thought out post, i can tell you raided or played vanilla. i wish blizzard was listening. I have little hope for 6.2 but am sticking around
Fishslap 33 The only comfort I can glean from your incredible and infuriating incompetence is that I can still enjoy the game while you cannot.
*****
Some people enjoy being shat on. It turns them on. Don`t confuse fetishism with competence though, you arrogant nincompoop. If you have any actual arguments or some knowledge about the issue please get back to me with that. if it`s only more drivel please spare me. But if you had any of that you might have written it instead of the crap you did, so I guess not. Goodbye and good riddance!
Ghostreet Ilustración
You`re wrong. WoW was an MMORPG. WoD is an MMO. It`s not even the same genre.
Well written. I never got really into the whole raiding scene back then; I always had problems with subscriptions and hardware. But I remember WoW being somewhat epic experience. Some time ago I logged to check out if wow has changed a lot during the years and oh boy. I remember the first instance as somewhat legendary because it took co-operation with people to actually complete. Now at level 15 I was presented with automatic queue button to an instance and the whole instance was basically me running behind the crew, trying to get stab at some mob before they were all dead. And after the raid I get a free bag of "goodies" IE a way better item than any of my previous ones; my current items I worked for 15 levels become useless instantly. I kept spamming that queue button for a while and realized the game has totally lost it's meaning. I think I also got to the level to choose my career path. I remember you had so much more options. You had to pay for skills and there were skill trees. Now it was a choise between two or was it three?
Pretty much the game is destroyed. No more travelling, adventuring or exploration or even grinding in the old sense. Getting new items or levels feels like nothing when all you have to do is press a queue button. New places are worthless because queue button will give you bag of goodies that tops all you could find anyways. No more socializing and planning with people, making friends. It's all unnecessary. You said it better than I could so I'll stop before I make this too long.
Games dying because it use to be an actually RPG..... Now a days every quest has an arrow pointing you where to go, streamlined dungeons where you dont even have to form a party then find the dungeon entrance like a typical rpg. Just teleport in, pvp alike. Its dumbed down- less skills and more button mashing. No quest to get your hunter pet. Streamlined and cutting the immersion. What happens to spell ranks, or at the very least having tonssss of bars in front of you making you feel actual depth? What happened to everything that just made the game COOL?
Zach Hermenau Made me get bored and annoyed.... but hey my 8 year old brother can play it now right....? Which he actually can. I cant believe how high of a level he got. He never even had to think lmfao.
Dude I probably started playing WoW when I was 7, back during the burning crusade. So whatever you say.
i started 4 vanilla and was easy ha
First and foremost, the WoW community itself has become less social. After being out of the loop after Lich King, and effectively forgetting how to play, I downloaded Warlords, only to be stomped in the ground once I've finished my leveling and tried to enter the raiding process. Nobody has tolerance for anyone due to the greatest WoW paradoxes, which are:
1.) You cannot enter any serious raids if you don't have serious equipment, but in order to get that serious equipment you need to farm those serious raids.
2.) When raiding, you are expected to perform perfectly, but in order to perform perfectly you need to practice on the very raids you are expected to perform perfectly.
Personally I don't mind the difficulty and the learning curve, but when the community actively labels me as a leper just because I started playing and I don't have a capped character to push my alts... well... FUCK THAT!!!
I remember the times when guilds devoted entire teams to help out the newcomers, speeding up their leveling process and helping them out on the early raids to get them off the ground, but nowadays everybody seems to mind their own selfish business and care only about their own benefit...
All I can say is "You think you do, but you don't". We need that old feel back, give us harder levelling take away heirlooms and make crafting matter again. It's not a hard thing for them to do, they just need to make the world feel dangerous again.
why are there so many dislikes? you're one of the most level headed wow youtubers atm and make plenty of very valid and true points.
+Kinetica Maybe because the title doesn't reflect what I actually say in the video. It's a tad clickbaity too, so most folks probably don't watch and just downvote because they think it's another video about wow dying, when it's the opposite :D.
+SignsOfKelani You're right...
Its dying because its a 10 year old game and the devs simply refuse to make content for it. Look at WoD's content and compare it to TBC's launch. TBC had Kara, Mag, Gruuls, TK and SSC at launch. Those raids were in the game at the expansions launch, it was just up to the playerbase to get through them. Then we had ZA, BT and SW. WoD launched with Highmaul then got BRF and now the last expansion patch is HFC. 3 raids for an expansion compared to 8 raids. That's fucking pathetic.
The problem is they think the Normal/Heroic/Mythic design philosophy makes it look like there's more content that there actually is when in reality its the same raid and assets just with bigger numbers and recolored gear.
I don;t know who has their foot on the content designers throats but they need to back off or their next expansion is going to be even worse.
This coupled with the fact they devs almost actively encourage you to speed through a majority of the game's content to get to their big loot hallways. WoW is even more mindless and boring now than it was in Vanilla because you achieve so much so fast it starts to not mean anything. Oh boy I dinged a level, who fucking cares I just dinged 4 levels i the span of 2 hours.
"Oh no we only made 2 raids for the expansion and everyone's saying they're bored how did this happen?"
Gee I dunno boss, maybes its because you trivialized 90% of the game's content and funneled players to level cap where the only thing to do is farm catch up gear for a raid that;s mainly just gear walls. Leveling is piss easy and too fast even without heirlooms, professions are worthless now and gold falls from trees. Sorry to say, drawing out the leveling is what gave the game its length even back in the beginning. Vanilla leveling had its problems, most of which were fixed when TBC launched but we've seen what the effects are without it. The game's a boring paste now. People rush to get to the "real game:" only to find out the "real game" is a watered down version of the raiding stories people told years ago. If you think Vanilla was solely about raiding then you completely missed the point of the game and are the cancer that killed it.
MrZurata Normal/Heroic/Mythic also add to the problem of difficulty WoW has right now, in the past raids had one difficulty. You want to kill Ragnaros in Molten Core then you have to do the Normal difficulty or fuck off. This created the largest possible pool of players since everyone was doing the same content and also freed up the devs to work on other things since they didn't have to balance the same raid 4-5 times.
MrZurata Just compare the mechanics back then and mechanics now. Also, Gruul and Maghteridon were "raids" with one boss.
MrZurata You forgot hyjal summit, added the same time as BT.
But I agree there was so much more raids and stuff instead of like this one with two starter raids(The other opening in patch 6.1) and now hellfire citadell.
Will keep getting some tokens to play so I can skip paying subscribtion fee, it does feel however they let the playbase down with this expansion.
MrZurata Don't forget how many dungeons there were in TBC, and the heroics were HARD! One mistake could mean a wipe, and it was fucking awesome. You had 5% chance to get that epic from the last boss and when you got it, it meant something. You worked for it. Now you have epics thrown at you even through leveling up..
fredriksk21 so there was many, and how many you have done? and how many average player did? In few years I have done exactly 1 raid and mostly by accident, it was hell to find dungeon group, so not many dungeons done either.
Calling WoD a "filler expansion" is sadly taking a positive view on the whole situation. It means you have hope that the *next* expansion will be a "full" experience. Unfortunately I'm a pessimist in that regard. The size and scope of WoD might just be Blizzard's intended "norm" from this point on. Only time will tell, however.
I wouldn't be so critical of WoD myself if it had been sold as a "filler expansion" from the very start. They could've said, "This is just something small to tide you over until we finish the *real* expansion later." That would've been fine by me... *if* that was their stated intent all along and *if* the expansion was *cheaper* than all others.
The sales pitch at Blizzcon 2013 said otherwise, however. They had big plans that were never completed due to a rushed schedule. If they would've kept their newly inflated dev team 100% focused on WoD (at least for the *beginning* half of it), the game probably wouldn't be in such bad shape today. (But they split that team in half to speed up the next expansion's sales date).
People knew how to play WoW back in Vanilla. I was there. I didn't, I had no interest in the end game, and the great thing was - there was an entire game up to the end game I could play and enjoy. It was difficult. It was rewarding to level. The emphasis on raiding is entirely what's killed World of Warcraft.
No one considered the possibility that the 3 million subscribers that blizzard recently lost are vanilla players that are now adults myself included vanilla was 11 years ago for anyone that played Vanilla I am sure they have matured and grew up now possibly with jobs and children like myself so I do not care about games like World of Whorecraft that require sooo much time and effort in order to gain decent items I am more than happy playing some COD battlefield or playing the odd game of league of legends games in which I can have fun and still be a father and a husband I do miss my WOW days in vanilla TBC and wotlk playing 18 hours a day but lets be real we cant do that forever
Boaby George Sniff Sniff Vanilla/BC how thou are missed.......Raiding MC, Kara and questing for the Lock mount back in those days...Damn mortage companies wanting their money on time every month...
+bogey2230 dont forget about paladins mount quest, all the classquests, hunters\priest Epic quest, FFS blizzard BRING THOSE BACK, classquests where AWSOME
+Boaby George wow used to require abysmal amounts of time and commitment to get epic gear you had to grind all those reputations and mats for stuff and drop rates were ridiculous but it's not like that since wotlk i believe? Nowadays gear and gold are handed over to players on a gold plate, leveling up professions takes a fraction of what it used to... it's very easy to start raiding... my bro is in a casual guild for years now and like 80% of people in there are 25-40 years old guys that know each other irl and have families, jobs and they still play casually, mainly to socialize and not for some "progress"... like 3 of them are raiding with their wives and 1 guy with his son... i don't think they play everyday and almost never longer than for like 6 hours... wow has changed and was casualized... it's hardly what it used to be... for the better and for the worse...
Vanilla Mechanics weren't that unforgiving, but were hard to recover from.
Just things that makes me think WoW is waaaay to boring.
Tanking:
- Threat? not needed, you can just AA and you keep aggro all day. Older day tanks would have issues with DPS going ham on the boss. Top tanks would tank using daggers though to its high TPS.
- Damage: Don't stand in crap and time CDs pretty much covers it. Plus its just huge damage , and your healers just need to 'pre heal you'.
- Rotation: Threat is not a problem, focus in dmg, which doesn't really make a difference since you do like 1/5 of any decent DPS damage.
DPS:
- Resource: What for, no one goes OOM normally.
- Rotation: Press button in certain order, no need to time with AA, or anything (hunters needed to to time their shots to avoi d AA clipping). Just one optimal spec with some spells. Normally rotation is what? 3-5 spells at most.(Hunter: Barrage Killshot steady shot chimera shot aimed shot).
Healers:
- Resources: going oom? Nope
- Spells: Just spam heal all day(efficient heal), make sense boss hits way too hard, that casting a heal as a reaction just won't make it. Used to have downranks, mana pots on CD, and fast reactions, speacially when you were trying to get 1 mana tick before next heal. For instance, in WOTLK, I was shocked as my shaman friend just spam chain heal all day long on same target, never going oom (heroic LK). And you would see stuff like 80% overhealing and stuff on meters, and you would be like.. wth?
Raid and Item progression:
So easy to get gear, that people don;t bother with old content, bc once next raids comes out, you can buy gear as good as previous raid, no real need to do progression and keep farming older content. LFR will give better items than old content, which is a huge WTH. For instance, and extreme example is Vanila, where yo uhad to do the whole raids, in order to get good enough gear to do BWL(need to farm MC much?) and then AQ ( the nature resistance gear)).
World PvP:
Alliance is invading... who the hell cares i'm waiting for arena. ... -.-
Anything else, I'm on queue for arena/bg.
Questing:
Everything is soloable by any class without any diffculty, no random groups for questing, no chains or anything worthwhile.
Legendary Items?:
Please, that guy completed the quest....k.
High Level/Mounts/etc:
No one cares, old days you'd see a lvl 60, 70 and 80(before RDF, and queue to 80) and say wow,.
Gold:
Just too easy to farm, inflation is way too high.
Professions:
Useless, no chains for them, no quests form them. Armorsmith quest.... that is a hated thing, tons of mats, and coal, omg the coal!, but the items you could craft after made it all worthhwhile, plus nice items you could sell for new plates.
Class Quests:
rly? just go tto the trainer and its done.
Classes:
'Hey I'm a rogue and I want to heal, its not fair, priests can heal' k here you have regeneration. Too homogeneous classes (and yes older raids were harder bc you needed certain classes for certain mechanics plus debuff limits, etc).
Reputation:
What for...
Hop onto a vanilla server , then tell me the game isn't currently easier.
The only thing that is more difficult today is mythic raiding.
Joshua Vig You're confusing difficulty with time-consuming.
The only confusion here seems to be coming from your end.
Xemozazk Essentially, WoD is also time-consuming. It takes time to learn mechanics, therefore it's time-consuming.
***** WoD is nothing compared to vanilla when it comes to time-consumed.
Xemozazk Vanilla was more time-consuming, and it was harder.
Played wow for 10 years from 2004. Here is my very short explanation. What made WoW great was the world, world pvp, raids, lore, characters. They did everything right. First nail in the coffin was instanced pvp and seperating pvp and pve gear. Second, the mystery disappear the more you discover. Third, raids was fantastic and supplemented the world. But now the world "supplements" the raid which is the new "main game". Last - after 5++ years people get tired of it, inevitable. I still buy expansions and play through it. But only for the story.
+Ouroboros612 Well said...I stopped playing soon after Cata came out...I cut my teath from 2005, Vanilla, BC, WOFTLK, awesome expansion and kept the game intresting without veering to much from Vanilla wow.
Im thinking of returning back to the game, but i dunno what to expect since i left from Cata (4 yearsa go)..
+Rabih Saad Thinking the same. I left just after the damm kung fu panda's came out.
"Unforgiving game does not equal difficult game"
Aaaand stopped right there.
+Mad Light And its a shame you stopped. He also said that garrisons and 20 mans were too easy, and to make them more difficult they should be less forgiving. This was a video of someone chasing their own tail for 20 minutes
WoW is dying because u think you do, but you don't
When people say difficult, they don't neccesarily mean boss mechanics, they're talking about degree of investment. The game has been catered to casuals so much that it no longer resembles the charming, frustrating, challenging game that it used to be. Instead it feels more grindy and dumbed down then ever. The game is so homogenized now it's not even funny. Classes are virtually identical with simple variations on the same theme
FFXIV took a major part of the WOW market.
They have expansion like content every 3 months. It's incredible really
We just need a world event where a gigantic portal opens, Sargeras himself steps through with the entire Legion, and everyone, I mean EVERYONE (Horde and Alliance) form one gigantic army level raid and engage him in the open world combat.
No phasing, no instance or raid, just a straight up war.
Tell me everyone would not reactivate their accounts and go online. Thumbs up if you even know what I'm talking about lol.
Just started playing about two months ago and knew from day one I wouldn't be doing ANY raiding whatsoever. The reason? Other players.
well said bro. but believe or not main thing is community. We dont ask ppl we check from wowhead. İf you ask they ignore. we dont look for ppl we use finders. we dont trade we use garrison. we dont search for high lvl professions.. i had too many friends in that game. now i dont see anyone even if im questing cuz its mostly singleman scenario.. they made the multiplayer game unsocial..
can confirm, ive been playing for a month now. nobody talks and everyone hates noobs
+jnsstrll lol
i remember when i started playing right after TBC, i was new, and i wasnt the only new player, and the high levels used to actually help me. I recently did an experiment, i pretended to be a new player and asked various level 100's for advice/help on how to play a certain class. I found that only about 3 out of 10 actually said something, and only 1 of them actually helped me. WoW has become a mostly solo MMO which doesnt make any sense. Im not giving up on wow, because i still find it fun, but the teamwork is gone. The community is now full of 12 yr olds who just laugh at low levels and dont do anything but sit there and mock others once they reach max. Lets face it, the wow community is dead. RIP good ol' days
I think the main reason for the decrease in players is that there is a huge variety of what people like to do the most in WoW. Some like effiency whilst others like the community you had to establish (like back in the days) to assemble a group or raid, to get to the dungeon/raid and to complete it. Others like to chill, explore, quest and work on some achievements. Some may even like to level from 1 to max, finishing zone after zone. It is hard for Blizzard to satisfy everyone.
As for my personal opinion, I really liked the leveling-progress back in the days, where you had to actually work to gain a level. After the implementation of achievements, I always tried to finish the questlines in what zone I was lvling in. To give an example; I hit 85, went to the Jade Forest, started questing to gain some levels, when I was done with the zone (all questlines and achievements done) I was already 90. So that was Pandaria for me, just the Jade Forest (and maybe 3-4 dungeons through LFG).
TL;DR WoW seems to be all about what you do on max level now (and its so fucking easy to get there), everything else is shown no love. Community means fuck all whilst effiency means everything.
Blizzard is killing it and the kiddies are killling it. The games end game (Raid content) should not have been maid for EVERYONE. They hit a sweet spot with WOTLK (Kinda) but I don't think it should have been maid accessible to everyone. I remember being a derpy low level char in Vanilla and seeing a warrior in Tier 2 and DROOLING. It was something that took forever to work for and I never achieved it. But it was the dream!.
The story and level of contents of
world of Warcraft is very rich. Unfortunately, Blizzard hasn't put much
emphasis on the lore. You could pretty much skip through a great number of
bosses and contents without knowing they were even there.
They should make the quests more streamlined
where quests guide the player through parts of a zone and introduces the player
to the contents in that zone. Dungeons should be incorporated into the questing
experience and should be enriched with cinematics. There needs to be some form
of structure in the game, at least for the storyline experience. The game
should be about the story; other aspects of the game are things players do
when they come back from adventures. e.g. crafting, making friends and pvp, to
[repare for the next adventure.
There should be lore around each zone,
meaning that upon completing a zone, there is be a boss fight and maybe even a
cinematic before getting moved onto the next zone and the next chapter in the
lore. Under no circumstances should you be allowed to out-level a zone and skip
contents. New players do not need to be thrown into the expansion as fast as
possible, allow them to get immersed in the world and experience the game the
way the oldest players have. It’s not fair that new players are getting less
for their money. You should not be allowed to move on from a zone without getting
a directors experience of its contents. I have a couple of level 100 characters
and I have never defeated any major character such as Kel Thuzad, Lich king,
Illidan, Guldan...etc
Cataclysm should be a progressive
experience, meaning that the world changes as the player levels through the
zones. I never even saw Death wing, I only saw his head hanged in SW. All this
content and you wouldn't even know its there because the developers have not
provided any structure through which the player can experience them.
I think each race should be limited to
one class and that class should have its own storyline around it. E.g. if you
want to be a Paladin, you have to be a human. If you want to be a Warrior, you
have to play Orc, hunter for elves, Shaman for Taureans..etc That way there is
a good reason to play each race, you get a different perspective on the story
of the world and a different way of playing it. As well as the experience of the starting zones and the
conflict of that race with adjacent ones.
People think Vanilla was better. It wasn't. It was new, it was the flavor of the month, it was easier than EQ and a purple item was more rare than Legendarys now. That. Was. It. It took hours to get a 5man dungeon together, you had to schedule a 40man raid days in advance because that too took 6+ hours to get then another 2-3hrs to get everyone to BRD, oh and don't forget the quest chain to get attuned in order to get into MC! EVERYTHING NEEDED A KEY OR ATTUNEMENT! There was no summoning stones, there was only Warlocks and good luck finding a lvl60 because either they were already being used or no one wanted to level them because they were so shit!
Let5s go back to 5man dungeons. No LFG, no Summoning stone, if you weren't level 40 with your 60% speed mount then you were walking your slow ass to that dungeon AND if you weren't a healer or Tank they would keep searching for a DPS that could get to that dungeon faster. It didn't matter if you were already in a group because they would drop your ass for someone faster and/or closer.
TBC? Sure it brought summoning stones, flying mounts and rep gear for players who couldn't get into a raiding guild. That's what TBC was reputation grinding for gear, recipes and keys in order to get into Heroic Dungeons AND there was still chain quests and rep grinding to get attuned for access to raiding dungeons. The end of TBC was the best. Why? because Blizzard removed the attunements, the required keys for access to heroic dungeons and they added LFG.
I laugh at people who say Vanilla or TBC was better because I know damn well they weren't there.
yet I, and thousands of people still had more fun on a private vanilla, then on retail. You can laugh as much as you want, because simple sub numbers proves you wrong.
The same ridiculous comments come back again and again. "You think vanilla was good, but you're wrong, it was shit"- that's basically what's you are telling us. Well no. The vast majority of Nostalrius players from retail had never play to Vanilla before. Yet, they loved what the expansion pack had to offer, and played it all the time.
Raid were long and complicated to organize, so only the most motivated players could get in there, and get their rewards. Same goes for dungeons. The fact that it was long an complicated meant that you had to interact with people a lot, thus making the game very social. And of course more rewarding.
I prefer feeling good because I achieved something long and hard in a game and because I met new people on it, than to have everything handed and tasteless. And yes, Vanilla dominates the actual WoW in that matter.
Agree. Especially the drops like in Scholo. Took weeks to get a bone bow! I use to love my dwarf hunter, was the best!
When Facebook reached 500 million people and started skyrocketing, WoW (and all MMOs) started losing subs and getting less chatty people in groups.
It is dying because they removed the "social" aspect with their garrisons. It used to be the capitals were packed with people who interacted. Allowing professions like mining and herb gathering for everyone was a mistake. Not creating new professions was a mistake. Not keeping the rivalry between Horde and Alliance going without having a THIRD faction of real people not npc as their common enemy was a mistake. Guilds were a place people became friends, they worked together to gain achievements for the guild. When they made all guilds level 25 there was no point to join a guild for mass rez...just create your own guild and you have mass rez. There are characters they could create a new faction with, the Viking type from the north for example. They could have random attacks on major cities throughout all the worlds. All these things have been suggested but ignored. When you don't listen to what your customers want, they go elsewhere.
I preferred the old school ways when it came to groups. An MMORPG should be based on connecting to PEOPLE. Getting to know the right people, and forming the right relationships for grouping, raiding and PvPing is part of the game.
The game isn't easier? You can literally go from 10 to 100 from sitting in Orgrimmar, and also get your entire gear from there. Then if you have gold you can also get your entire PvP set. this is so dumb
I still don't understand why Classic is called "vanilla"; regardless of how it was, there was nothing "vanilla" about Classic World of Warcraft. Blizzard took the best parts of other MMORPG's, added their own twists, avoided mechanics that people didn't like in other games and boom, but there was absolutely nothing "vanilla" about it. I came from Ultima Online, if you want to call something "vanilla" the predecessors to World of Warcraft would fit that description better than World of Warcraft.
Lol wow ain't goin no where. Legion is so awesome. So many players are coming back to the game. So much content to do. Wow will not die anytime soon.
"People were bad back then!"
**Remembers time during vanilla WoW when I was a melee hunter...** =(
+Be Rational A MELEE
HUNTER
Phagocyte161 I mean, it was only until just after 60.. I didn't want to buy arrows and I felt like I did a lot of damage... the class was quite different back then, no quivers, etc.. :/
I was a ret paladin so.... i guess i can't judge lol
Is WOW dying? No. It died with Arthas.
I don't know why they didn't make garrisons like Clash of Clans if they were going to even consider them for an mmo game. Great video.
I thought this would be interesting but as i don't give a rat ass about raiding it wasn't
I really hope its not going die soon. I just started playing like a week ago and i am already Gnome Mage lvl 60. I haven`t been playing any other game than wow in a whole week or more and it will be a shame if the game servers are going to get closed or there is too small amount of players or something similar. This game is the first in a long long time what really addicts me. I don`t even think about playing other games. Not even any game in Steam and i have 178 games in Steam. Its 10+ years old game and still so addicting. I indeed will regret it that i didn`t start playing this earlier if this game gets closed or something that makes it unable to play properly.
They ruined the game with the new talent system. Wtf were they thinking by limiting your abilities so much
hameed Dumbing down the talent tree to one talent ever 15 levels sort of makes me feel like Blizzard's target demographic is toddlers :/
hameed They did this because everyone was using the same talent build, which was considered "the best" for each class, but their system failed and now we're stuck with it.
Jpbureau1996 that does not even make sense? when you limit choices THAT is hen everyone starts using the same talents! think about it man, don't just repeat what is said by others :( More choices brings about more differences. exactly the opposite of what Blizz gave as their reason! It didn't make sense then nor does it make sense now that its been repeated 20 million times.
Agreed with your video
Couple of idea's I've had that,
1) % discount based on # of years played.
I think this would be way better To reward Long time players, rather than give New player's game/past expansions for practically nothing.
2) change realms to a specific expansion.
Give players chance to experience content as they were.
This would probably be very complex, but it might be interesting to newer players to experience vanilla or BC as it was.
3) option for player on how they can play their character. Like an advanced, normal and easy mode? What you choose, would decide your type of talent tree and way of leveling.
Advanced maybe have the Vanilla/BC talent Tree and way of leveling weapons. (Remember when you needed to Use your weapon to gain expertise with it?)
Normal have LK's talent Tree
Easy have WoD
Just a natural decline. This game has aged
"don't have the time, don't have a decent enough schedule, don't have the will power, don't even care about it..."
So is that why when there was no LFR WOW was at 13 million and now with LFR it is down to 7 million? Yeah, because now that they have lost half of their population due to kitty gloving everything, means we should keep the kid gloves to keep the casual player and not bring back the difficulty so keep the casual (which they obviously played even when it was uber hard) because we don't want those hard core players back.
haha "the game is too easy" 99% of the time said by LFR noobs
A lot of solid points here. Do you recall meeting up to make the run to UBRS? It was exciting and everyone made sure they were repaired, had potions, etc. Now you just queue and smash through your choice of dungeon. No waiting on Galstaff to finally get his affairs in order or Crabsy for that matter. All the social time is pretty much gone. No joke time or breakthroughs in strat, because you can print the best one out and study it.(Pretty much required now) I usually try to say something good about the group after a dungeon. Maybe 3 people have ever responded.
wotlk best expansion.
+BlizzardExtreme Agreed..Im a player since vanilla 2005. Stopped playing in first quarter Into Cata. Never went back to the game since then...WOTLK was the pinnacle of wow..Brilliant expansion..
+Rabih Saad
Wotlk was garbage
"Oh hey here's lich king, he's the biggest baddest dude in the lore but you can be casual and 5 man him bro, all good!"
+Alex Wright Link me your armory and let's see if u have killed Lich King HC back in time :) i doubt so ;)
In my oppinion, what was "hard" in vanilla and TBC was not so much the mechanisms, it was more about stamina and persistance.
You had to invest quite a lot of time on preparing your character and on social interaction to succeed in raids beyond entry level.
As a new player or class, there was a time consuming "rite of passage" before you could enter current tier of content, which made rerolling a rare thing, and therefore most players I know became very attached to their main character.
The game moved beyond the layers that the game provided, and gave a lot of players the same level of social interaction that being on a sports team gives - at least if you wanted to progress within the game.
This made social skills a crucial part of game progress - a thing you do not need anymore to experience the storyline of the game.
At least, that is the experience I have had, after raiding on both retail WoD and private vanilla servers the last 6 months.
Personally, I think a few WoD servers that were "isolated" outside the crossrealm system, where everyone started at lvl 1 would be great. Where level 60 content had to be cleared before outlands was avalible, and so forth through the expansions, or some sort of community-wide progression forcing the community to play together.
wow's dying because it's dated and still p2p
it's p2p because of those cheap noobs who don't have around 10-15 $ to spend a month.
thank god it's still p2p, or servers would be shit, but they need to give everything better graphics
Warped its dying because elder scrolls online is free to play (after buying 40$) and its eay better in general.
I just googled that game and I can say that what a bad game. The mount (a silly horse) physics sucks, the game interface sucks, etc. Please give another argument, thank you.
no its because it betrayed the formula that made it succesfull. which was meaningfully dificult leveling, meaningfully dificult dungeons, no catch up mechanics no tourist idiot modes
Removing LFR, yeah, that would bring us back to the old days and all that "fun" where you sit there for an hour asking "is this raid ever gonna happen?", and then people start dropping out, and after two hour or so, everyone gives up. Yeah, those were GREAT time I can't WAIT to re-visit. :D
+Schwert_2015 The thing is, in those days - It was about the social aspect, like it was just awesome to chat with people on trade chat. Groups etc..and usually when the group is finally formed, everybody communicated, it was like one big family :/
+patrick starshooter That was the upside. ☺
+patrick starshooter Barrens chat FTW!
thats the point....nothing was easy. even getting a 5 man going was pretty tough.
this made even finishing that 5 man such an achievement. when you did a 40 man....getting one piece of gear was exhilirating.
when you can lfr or lfd, not have to socialize, and walk away with free epics, it becomes very repetitive and boring.
I don't think that's the main reason WoW is dying. It's not difficulty or content or anything like that. It's that the game isn't condusive to people forming groups and co-operating/communicating to win anymore.
When we look at it that's all WoW ever had. It had bad quests/stories compared even to runescape. It had horrible graphics even for 2004. It didn't have the best combat system with a 1 second delay between actions. It had imbalanced PVP. It had nothing great EXCEPT it was the BEST game at being conducive to large communities forming and stick tighing.
Over the years they made their game have slightly better PVP, Better boss encounters, Better story... but they could never compete with games that based their whole game on that. Like skyirm will always have better quests than WoW... The problem is they made all these improvements at the expense of their one strength: Community. And they lost that too.
Now it's just a medicore game that's not good at anything. Quests are outdone in other games, So is PVP so is graphics... and now other games have much more massive community interaction. Leaving WoW with maybe 20-30% of the subs it had at it's peak.
I was a hardcore raider in TBC, I played about 8+ hours a day. What drove me was to get high ratings in arena and get gear off the end game bosses before most of the other players on my server. There were items I couldn't get but my motivation also stemmed from seeing other players with better gear then my own. I didn't mind that some of the highest level gear wasn't accessible to me, I just wanted to work my way to it.
Now I have 2 kids and work alot. I still play games in my free time, but if TBC came out today I wouldn't want Blizzard to dumb down the game to fit my now casual schedule. That sense of entitlement from the player base strips away the sense of accomplishment when you finally earn that piece of gear you grinded months for. So basically no matter what was schedule was I wanted the gear to be hard to attain.
I can say I agree with most of what you say.
One thing though, about "efficiency" and "quality of life" - It's supposed to be a social massive multiplayer game, but with features like dungeon tool (as it is now), the social aspect of the game gets taken out.
If you want people to socialize and integrate with each other, you'll have to force them to.
Because if there is no other option than to actually talk to each other, people will adapt.
Remo every dungeon from the open world. Yes leave LFG but remove the enters for dungeons that there is.
Destroy dead mines "oh noo something went boom" build new city over few dungeons (no names in mind) and so on...
Add 40 dungeon and 10 raids in the world which you may not enter via LFG nor LFR.
Every dungeon and raid is hidden anywhere in wow, from Vanilla to Lich King to even the Burning Crusade areas. Every where!
Never tell players you did this, just say you fixed few things. Add few npc talking about "Did you know dead mines went down? Yes but did you hear that theres been rumors about new places close to duskwood?"
"Hidden dungeons" to enter them you must first find them. then you must find group for them and last you must go to them. This would fix few problems.
1. It would be fun surprise for first peopel just to stumble on them.
"What is this? new dungeon? No way, I will see google . . . . . ."
2. You don't know how many dungeons nor raids there is.
3. People will find them as time goes on.
4. There would be People going back to the world, more world pvp
5. Thous who liked game befor LFG will enjoy this, thous who don't like it can still use LFG
6. No one has been told there are theas, but few peopel will tell you how to enter them.
No realy you could have npc who you talk to have dialog which could say
"In the lost wood there was a dragon, behind the dragon is enter that is opened only when the dragon dies, or so the legend is told"
One person would go to see this and notice that the draong would be 110 level world raid boss ;)
Yeah sometimes sleep would do good . . . I my self think this would be fun.
The server hopping with pugs seriously wounded the need to be in a Guild. Garrisons pulled players out of the cities. Essentially the game has turnes into solo questers and Elitist raiders with not much else except the LFR crowd, and a few hardy PvPers hanging out in old content BGs.
What you do outside of raiding in
MoP: 9 dungeons, Scenarios, LFR, Daily quest with narrative progression, collecting lore scrolls, the farm, world bosses.
WoD: 8 dungeons, garrisons, LFR, collecting, world bosses, Apexis grind quest with no narrative.
WoD raiding MoP raiding
WoD had a bigger tier.
MoP had a large tier and diverse enviroments
PvP:
Wod offered nothing
MoP had two new arenas and 3 new battlegrounds
If they added a dungeon/raid que with certain rules. Like Vanilla Mode for the duration of the instance. Then add a currency type to it. Or a level limiter, where you could do a run of something like normal Shadowfang Keep at the appropriate level. Then after the run you pop back to lv 100. New transmogs or gear currency for helping lower levels with quests. Idk, anything that reduces the toxic levels that the communities have become would make the game more social again?
*Too many changes too often to class mechanics.
*Raids tiers are messed up
*Garrisons became a chore.
*Gear progression doesn't reflect skill or achievement - it no longer has excitement + the designs are now so dull.
*Lots of other games can now offer more for less money
I remember playing when they introduced the LFD tool. I also remember telling my friends that it was a huge mistake. People gathered at the Meeting Stones - you met, got to know your group, etc. With that tool, they made those Stones mostly if not completely useless, and stripped away part of the community-building tools (though, in reality, building a community is the community's responsibility). I agree with most everything you said.
By the way, constantly adding expacs is one of the things that happened right before EQ collapsed. Also, constantly expanding the world (instead of rebuilding/revamping it) and making new worlds sucked the life out of it. A beginning player would left alone through most of the their leveling because everyone else was off in the new content.
Here's an idea to stimulate community and fix WoW's leveling problem. Add incentives to leveling. Pick a zone, and provide bonuses if they complete all quests in that zone with a character within x (x = some number; 10 maybe?) levels of that zone. Make some of these quests groups quests that are too difficult to complete alone. It would make leveling a priority, and it would stimulate community by putting a bunch of people who are not concerned about raiding in the same zone. Also, it would encourage them to work together.
They have these amazing leveling zones, which is the majority of the whole game landscape. And you can literally level from 0-100 without questing in extreme cases or if you do quest, you level insanely quickly that you can't absorb the scale of wow of anymore. It used to feel epic playing this game and now everything in the game is just a grind :/.
Everyone remembers their first WoW character 😪 miss this days
6:02 I respectively beg to differ. When ICC first opened and we ventured in "Forge of Souls," we really didn't have any "strat" other than "Keep your eyes peeled, don't stand in crap, stay frosty." We cleared it with minimal wipes (1-2,) had a blast. Now this success might have been that we were pretty good at the game meaning, we had good gear, we paid attention i.e. no "ego maniacal children tanks" running way ahead of your healers. Making sure your healer had mana etc...you know, smart stuff. I ran with other groups later that couldn't even get past "Bronjahm, The godfather of souls," for gosh sakes. Your slant is debatable my friend. Would like to hear your take on this.
Build the community bond for Draenor by making the Garrison location a "City" with all available vendors. Leave PVP on Ashran like it is now to keep the city more manageable!
ilvl requirements would probably fix it all. LFR and Heroic Dungeon would give you gear to meet the minimum for raid normal. Raid normal would give you the gear for heroic and then heroic would give you the gear for mythic. For example, LFR and Heroic dungeon would get you to 700 ilvl. Once you have 700 ilvl you can enter normal raids. Normal raids would get you up to 725 and then you could enter the mythic raids. IIRC they have similar for dungeons.
You're saying it's not easy?
I just solo'd dead mines on my level 15 monk.. This game is easy. IT doesn't just go for low levels, everything is easy. I remember in Cataclysm, I came back to WoW, and I queued up for LFR, and killed Deathwing.. the main boss, like it was nothing.I remember sitting in westfall for hours trying to find a group to wipe a few times in deadmines, it's soloable at 15 now and you can kill main bosses with a group of randoms without any hesitation. I understand normal, heroic, and mythic modes are harder, but it lost its touch. This game is turning into "everyone deserves everything"
I think what people mean by to easy. Isnt that the actual mechanics are to easy, but getting what you want is to easy. The things that stood out in old x pacs and vanilla was that huge disparity in gear and things people had, making them look and feel unique. When i saw people in Naxx gear i thought it was pretty amazing and i got the same feed back on my grand marshall gear. Now everyone has the same gear same trinkets same weps same same same same same. with very little effort and lucky RNG
War Lords saw the complete gutting of crafting. In previous expansions, those of us who enjoy interacting with each in our guilds by building up mats and equipment enhancements have seen patterns and recipes decrease to the present three basic enchants, no real personal reforging, no real gemming, no need for real specialty equipment. They keep simplifying and simplifying until they remove a lot of the fun and interaction between players from the game. At heart, this is meant to be social media but at present no one needs to talk to each other at all.
We can go back to TBC times concerning LFG, and it doesn't have to hurt efficienty if theres a good reward, like, guild runs.
On this same note, Garrisons should've been a guild event imho, this causes your garrison to still be used but, it'll be filled with guildies, which causes them to be a bit more useful..
It really was all about the immersion and that's not a lie.
I started in the middle of BC. I recall exactly what made me skip school to come play this game for months and months at a time. Back when it was a Legendary quest, just to get you lev 100 class mount. Running everywhere do the first 40 levs. Earning your sweet spells and abilities, the hours, the days, the months it took to complete just one char... that's why it I loved this game.
Now I am such a alt-aholic that I have both my Ally and Horde servers filled to the max. Because it's the journey, not the end game that really mattered in this game.
Building up, doing all of those quests, all that time that you spend in with your guild, actually depending on each other for different professions.
Then, you finally make it to max lev and you feel like a king!
You spend more time raiding and pvp in but everything matters and nothing goes away.
Every mount you earned, everything you make, all the miles on the road you rode. Everything took time, skill, gold.
That's what made this game great.
So if you really want to get back into this game the way it was suppose to...
Start world/zone questing on your next char. Wear no heirlooms that give you XP gain, do the dungeons that are in the zone you are currently in; don't fly unless you need to get somewhere like MT. Hijial* in Azeroth but fly in places like Outland, Northrend and Pandaria.
You'll remember what's it's like, but you'll always remember how easy it was just to run dungeons with looms... because we are spoiled brats now.
lev 60 class mount*
My only quibble is with your idea that unforgiving mechanics aren't "difficult" - yes, of course they are. Just like grinding is difficult in its own way: if it reduces the chance of success, be it through blind chance or sheer boredom, then it makes the game more difficult, by definition. Of course, whether it's the kind of difficulty the game needs is another story.
But you're spot on about the dungeon and raid finders. It was painfully obvious, from the start, that they would play a huge part in killing off player interaction. Finding groups in Trade was probably THE major way people got to meet each other and start playing together. I think Blizzard even acknowledged that back in the day - but of course, acknowledging an issue is a long way from addressing it.
What's particularly sad is that these things were introduced, AFAIK, mainly due to a managerial concern: "we're using up so many resources to make these instances, yet so many players barely even set foot in them!" So they made a button that took you to the instance, at no cost and with no hassle. Now those things have turned malignant - try to pull them out of the game and watch all hell break loose.
Queing from everywhere. Flying Mounts. No Community. MOORPG dying. Simple.
You can't really say "No community" because Raids and RP.
AppuBob
your argument is like... you go to work 10 hours a day, you get 1 dollar, but you cant say you get no money... i mean... 1 dollar is still money, you are pretty poor, but you have money.
No.... it has one but not required. Raiding and RP requires a community. As an rper I find myself talking to almost everyone on my server be it In character or Out of character. Can't say much for raiding I for one dislike it but I see guilds teaming up with one another to down bosses and pvp...well if you want to chat with the pvp community the forums is the best place to go. So to say their is no community is pretty stupid. I do agree Flying mounts suck, Don't really mind RDF but I do wish you have more reason to go out into the world...LFR needs to go though.
Boybandhair
dont tell it to me, tell it to the millions of people which are playing @ classic/Bc privat servers, then you will see if its really stupid or not.
Intelligenkeit Well, it is stupid. Current wow does have a community. Those private servers also has a community also.
One common argument I see is: Heroic/Mythic raiding is much harder than old raids in Vanilla/BC.Here's the difference, in vanilla you progressed from raid to raid, whereas now you run the same raid multiple times, with different difficulty. You can compare vanilla naxxrammas to mythic blackfoundry, as difficulty levels did not exist back in vanilla, meaning they couldn't afford to make 4-5 raids each expansion, and make 15 difficulties for each, in BC you had Karazhan, Zul' Aman, Gruul's Lair, Magtheridon's Lair, Serpentshrine Cavern, The eye, Mount Hyjal, Black Temple, then Sunwell Plateau, and in MOP you had Heart of fear, Mogu'shan vaults, Siege of Ogrimmar, Terrace of endless spring and throne of thunder.
before LFR was instituted, i'd NEVER been in a Raid before, because the only Raid Guilds insisted on "EVERYONE MUST KNOW THE FIGHTS". .I was in 4 seperate guilds, and within 6 months, guild politics destroyed the guild and it was down to a handful of players.. With few other players, you can never get into raids...or even dungeons LFR & LFG lets those of us who don't have guilds get into things we'd otherwise miss out on completely... Before LFG started, i'd been playing for several years and only been in a handful of dungeons and had NEVER been in a raid....
.. LFR & LFG lets a more casual player get into the end-game content, and it was still a challenge (as witnessed by numerous TPK raid fights wiping numerous times...) and then the recriminiations about "that player's DPS isn't high enough, kick them out!!"....too many players seem to get hung up on the numbers, and not whether your making forward progress or not....
about people not talking....Far TOOOO many people play like they ARE the only people playing...they overlook any sort of recognition that the other players are there and wind up being jerks. I'm one of those players who will give the random buff-bys to who ever I happen to encounter and have even worked with a Horde player trying to kill a world critter, through a rather hysterical attempt at gesturing and pointing....
I quit wow a long time ago, I think I started a couple years after it came out, and quit in 2007 or 2008. It was kind of fun leveling up, though a bit of a grind. The real core of the game was raiding. The first couple of guilds I had joined were for leveling, then I finally got into a guild which was running Molten Core (This was just before Legion was released) which was not a big thing, really entry level. But the Raid leader was a jerk of sorts, so I ended up switching guilds. That one was better, got into higher level raids, started to really get in stride and was gearing up nicely. But they started to lose some key players from burn out. I figured, well, I am fairly well geared, have been a Paladin class leader, so I figured, why not go for broke, and got into the best guild on my server. I actually had to fill out an application, as if it were a job. They had strict gaming requirements, always had to be on for raids, even if not selected, and had to game at least 20 hours per week (at the time I averaged closer to 40 cause of weekends). For a while it was good, Legion had some first time raid experiences which were cool, felt a lot of accomplishment. But then, they were pulling in a few more recruits. I was told my paladin wasn't healing enough. I was like, wft, we killed bosses we hadn't killed before, I must be doing something right. I was selected for raids less and less, and at a certain point, after talking with the guild leader (at the time we had over 60 members), I basically said hey, you have new guys coming in, I am going to take a week off. I had been playing for 2 years straight, was doing well, but if I wasn't going to progress like this. He said he would de-guild me if I did, at which point I quit the game. I was burnt out, not progressing, and putting enough time in as if it were a second full time job, and getting reviewed like it was a full time job. Games should be fun, not some kind of major commitment taking 40 hours of your life each week. It was the best thing I ever did. I got in shape, and stayed in shape for the next 6 years (until I had some health issues associated with age crop up). I do miss the old WoW, but I don't that realistically where I am in life, I can devote that much time to a game, let alone with 40 other people at the same time, to complete a game goal. My characters are probably long gone, and honestly don't miss them. There are other and more interesting games to play which are both challenging, and aren't a complete drain on your personal life. It will be interesting to see when it all ends.
I think you have a lot of valid points that you have made. To be fair, I honestly only still play because I feel I invested in it. As in I have been playing since BC and have spent so many countless hours on it, to give it up completely forever would be a disappointment. I do think your points on garrisons, on raids and even dungeons and community are spot on. As far as LFR. I use to be a hardcore raider back in WOLK (which is also my favorite expansion and my highest addiction time playing wow) but since then, life has happened and I just don't have the time to spend hours and hours grinding a raid/boss. It doesn't help that I will not keep paying so much money to transfer servers with how often I move. Currently I'm on a West coast server but I live in the UK....so I have even less time to raid and therefore rely on LFR to be able to see the content that I would not be able to witness otherwise. The game has changed so much, some for the better, but I think overall for the worst, it's also because I feel it's been around for so long and there are so many other games out there that are either fresher or so similar that its getting saturated.
As someone who played as a raider from vanilla up until the end wotlk i agree with some of your points but not all. The point at which Blizz lost me was when they started to bring in multiple difficulties of the same raid 10/25 wasn't so bad but Multiple difficulties of the same raid at the same size just didn't appeal to me.
For me it was never about the items it was about seeing cool bosses then smashing there face in, then proceeding to the next boss/raid to do it again.
i think the best example of this for me was the tbc model from kara to grul to maggy and then on to ssc/tk it was epic you knew that once you'd finished one raid you could progress to the next.
I feel I'm far from alone in this but once i've completed a raid I don't want to do it again slightly harder, harder still and crazy hard. Its still the same basic fight. Personally i thought the Ulduar and sartharion raid model was for me the most rewarding by far as far as difficulty is concern.
Further more you've fallen into the trap many high level players do by utterly dismissing LFR. Yes LFR is easy but it is supposed to be, to suggest however that you can go in and virtually afk bosses is a bit of a stretch. Mythic/heroic level raiders do not belong in LFR they sit and scream at beginners for failing at things they don't completely understand, complaining about dps and scrubs, generally sounding like toxic entitled children its no surprise to me that many new players are put off raiding for life at this point.
Some sort of system that pairs you up with people you've grouped with before would be nice, as a preference. If you've had a successful group with someone you can rate it (and the group) at the end perhaps, so that way you get paired with people you enjoy playing with and work well with.
If you take the time to do that, you slowly isolate people who are generally trolling others, while at the same time two people who hate each other are less likely to see each other again, and people you have grouped with before you are more (increasingly more) likely to see again.
The downside is a few minutes at the end of the battle to rate the group and if you wanted to individual any players you were with that you wanted noting as positive or negative to your experience.
Also, why doesn't everyone realize the game was down subs before wod and they gave free lvl 90s to everyone. Looks like nearly all the ones who came back for that, just didn't keep subbing after the first few months.
Jeff Bays Agreed it takes away any sense of achievement so loads returned to see what it was like to play a level 90 remembered they suck at wow and cancelled their sub. For me its the long way or no way but whether a younger generation with the attention span of a gnat will ever be able to cope with that is another question.
It's true about attention span. It's why the mmo is dying as we knew it.
Ye'all need to stfu about boost to 90. You people can prolly ding max level in a week, its NOT an accomplishment. Blizzard just gives you an achievement because theyre being nice.
Its not the achievement I give a shit about man. I don't care they gave away those 90's. What I do care about is that it was merely bait for the ones that no longer play and now, aren't playing again. lol
I play wow for escapism and a major factor that has me leaving a few months after an expansion is too long between patches and the no flying, I mean once I've got max lvl on one toon I lose the interest in doing it all again on ground mount, I love flying I love the freedom it offers and hate the restriction blizz hits you with.
with the new things coming out with legion, such as the new pvp system, new players can jump right in and have a lot of fun. i think one of the biggest turn-offs for me was how late i felt i started. i started in MoP because i was younger and thought it looked awesome. pvp is hard to get in to because it is all gear based. but with legion they are changing a lot and i truly hope WoW gets back into the 10millions
WoW is dying because it's been around for over 10 years, and those who used to play it now have jobs, kids, responsibilities etc, and WoW just can't be given the time by them like it used to.
When I started playing WoW ,I was 27, now I'm almost 40 and can't afford the time to spend grinding gear or mats. So I've been slowly drifting away from the game over the past few years.
My neighbours both played WoW, they quit because the had a family and couldn't afford the time.
The younger generations have so many other choices of games now too, both on consoles and PC, WoW is just another game to them, and they don't want to pay monthly subscriptions to play.
I know that Blizz made some huge mistakes in their expansions, like in MOP and WOD, but the real reason is the one I stated above.
I'll maybe go back to the game in the future and probably many others too. I can imagine in 50 years' time, care homes full of elderly people all raiding Nax :-D
Snoken Skog maybe an element of truth in that too, but 12 years is a long, long time for a game to run. Trust me, I've played every game in the past 35 years, from Centipede in the early 80s, til WoW and more. You can see how people change , even if the game stays practically the same
Snoken Skog well, let's just hope the new expansion is heading in the right direction ay? :-) fingers crossed
jmoneyy1984 But casual player outrank the hardcore, you can't ignore the majority?
Also, I'm really, really enjoying the new expansion, for me it's probably the best since BC.
They've fixed a lot of the awful stuff from WOD and it feels new and exciting.
Speak with me again in 6 months and I'll see how it lies then? :-)
Wow, your opinion on sever bonding by the elimination of LFD was brilliant! Your thoughts on the risks for followers and stuff is awesome! Im one of those people you doesn't like losing followers cuz I get emotionally attached if they have names, but im happy to heal injured followers! I do hope that blizzard fixes WoW as it was the best MMO on the market. Im not sure if ill ever play WoW again, but if the next X-pack does some of what you are taking about I might look into it again.
if you were patient enough to listen through the video, he does mention the community and go into depth about it. This video was made for mainly "newbies" who weren't around for Vanilla days to experience and notice the differences along the journey of the game. If you have more insight on it, then make your own video and link it to me and I'll give it a listen.
I would have to disagree with you on the part where you talk about the difficulty of the game. You see it not about Raw difficulty of encounter or the game itself its about the difficulty of Progress.
Remember in vanilla: Yes I got 60! this meant little you still had to level up your gear. This was an Ordeal, you had to do instances then find a raiding guild and or do alot of Battle grounds to earn the PVP titles. If you would look at what most people could achieve in lets say 3-6 months after they have hit 60 you could see that most of them would barely in epic.
Now: you can have 3-4 character if not more in epics easy in the lower limit of that time (3 months) and have 1-2 raiding with a guild.
also they have dumbed down (easier) the playing, the classes now have a main playing style before it depended on your build, what stats where u building, where did you spend your talents points. They made the entire game so a 6 year old could play or so a new player could up his character to lvl 90 spend those 10 levels questing and then get into the game. How is that normal, the game was designed to have a certain learning curve : leveling from 1-60, 60-100. want to do a boost? make it 60 to 90 or 70 to 90 but not 0 - 90.
and Yes LFR did kill the game, while raids and dungeons are more accesible now it also removes the need of so many ingame friends that guilds often provided.
PVP again dumbed down I had in 2 month most of the gladiatior set doing just the min requirements...
All in all it has become a game for children not teenagers or adults who are looking for challenging MMO to keep them interested
Sigh,looking for dungeon is great you got it wrong. The problem is there is no reason to run shortly after 100, it used to be something you could be doing with your friends in your down time and it was rewarding to endgame contentment .Also Heroic used to mean it was hard and ya had to cc Los and pay attention. Most people don't even know what los is now. Then Your garrison shouldn't have even been a place, it should have been a hud screen that poped up you send your people out for random rewards 30 secs and your done.
garrett D lol contentment=content dono how that happened XD
Well the Lfr part. I started there. Never been raiding in past expansions, now I have 7/7 hm hc and 10/10 brf hc. Without lfr I wouldn't really be here. It helped me to get a look of how a raid looked and how the bosses work, even tho it's a totally other thing with normal, hc and mythic.
Because no game lives forever, my son. ~King Terenas.
Sad but true. Wow is dying slowly. PvP is on life support. No new battlegrounds in 2 expansions. Blizzard said "fuck pvp". PvE is meh. The game is getting very antisocial and impatient. On the pve side of things, fucking people are like "KNOW THE FIGHTS! NO SCRUBS" only a fucking week or two after a raid is released.
i 100% agree with the lfr and mythic situation! our guild has hit a brick wall for a while now. im a 696 WW monk in our mythic team. we are grabbing geared players that claim to know the fights and it turns out they have reached 685 ilvl from doing nothing more than LFR and a few normal carries and garrison crates. its getting so so ridiculous. the game is in a bad place right now. loot isn't rewarding because garrisons give you it first.. i have all mythic items from backhand minus the weapon. i literally have no incentive to do it any more
I think you miss the whole point about people saying the game used to be harder raiding was harder back in vanilla for a myriad of reasons, the mechanics were less forgiving, you did not have flexi raids like we do now for normal and heroic, raid sizes were 10 and 40 player maintaining a 40 man raiding roster (of say 50 players) was complicated enough, there were no multi specs for characters, you actually had relatively large time sinks to get attuned for raid zones, trying to gear new players to replace those leaving was a real pain in the ass too.
However the biggest difference back then was there was no option if you wanted to raid you had to have some level of commitment to it, the only remnant of that system today is mythic raiding that is as close to old skool raiding as you have in Warcraft today and still the differences are quite large.
But Blizzard made a conscious effort to change raiding and make it available to the masses (after TBC) that decision has step by step brought us to where we are today not only has it affected raiding but every single aspect of the game, there is nothing left to the core game that is not trivial to achieve meaning that most characters end up being an almost cookie cut out. Many people who play Warcraft today would not play vanilla WoW if released as a new game on today's MMO market, as a genre we as gamers have become to used to things being easy and that is not on a technical level it is about how everything is attainable by everyone you only have to note about flying in WoD and Blizzard folding and back pedaling on this issue to realise how the self entitled public opinion on social media over riders what the Dev's think is good for the game.
The great days of community driven MMO's are gone every new game that comes out has to deal with the Warcraft generation and we are not willing to commit to a game and play it like we did to Warcraft at release so enamored have we become with getting everything NOW and not having to actually work for it which back in the day when we did have to commit and strive mad us feel as if we had achieved something and others could look and think wow! That guy/girl really has got the stuff!
So the reason Warcraft is dying is it is suffering from its own "success" Blizzard have given us what the community wanted, we have an easy to play game where we can all do and get everything and yet when you have that there is nothing to do, nothing to strive for and like being a child who's parents never refuse them anything we have nothing left to look forward to apart from empty illusions of promise that the next patch/expansion/whatever will bring us what we really want!
Note : My apologies for this being so long I just kind of went into rant mode!
I don't often hear the problem that i have with the game, wich is that i can't build my own character in any meaningful way. The core mechanics are all decided when i choose a spec, the items make very little difference, and every spec has a clear preference to one or another, so also kinda decided. The talent choices are there but those hardy change the actual game play and the whole feel of the character. I get to customize the outfit a lot but that's not really what i'd like, i'd like to have builds tactics, i want to customize how i play a given class.
Remember Back in BC when you had to either skype or teamspeak in order to raid or dungeon? i miss those days because you actually had to coordinate and that brought an aspect to the game that attracted friends to come play/raid with you.
Regarding your thoughts on removing the LFG tool for dungeons. In theory it may make things better but you would run into the issue where people "shop" for overgeared players to make the dungeon quicker this neglecting people that may actually need it; new level 100s for instance.
I so agree with you about MMO games just being about efficiency and QoL things, to many imo. Don't think it will ever change now sadly.
I am a heavy PvPer, but I have done many Heroic raids. (Mostly for my BoA's) I think LFR is a good thing. It helps casual players actually get into raiding so then they can gear up and go do ACTUAL raiding
Eren Jaeger LFR gear is a joke. LFR raiding is a joke.
How can someone who starts his career doing the fries at McDonalds say they're on the path to becoming a master chef?
All LFR is is Blizzard caving in and giving scrubs what they want, easy access to what should be difficult and semi-exclusive content.
small thing, you don't have to buy a new update once its out, you can always wait for it to be free, or cost less. for example i paid for WoD just 14$ and i didn't have to wait too long for that to happen. Tbh i got into wow 3 days ago, and i'm really enjoying it so far, all the theorycrafting (i got a druid :D), especialy the garrisons ( tho i did hope that the naval shipyard would let us build ships n battle on the sea just like in arche age)
I quit WoW back in MoP because it was too hard. The game was always fairly easy until Pandaria (I played a Prot Warrior). The problem I had is that the MoP leveling questline went through a single point (Temple of the White Tiger) which I cound'nt pass at level 87. So I did solo grinding until level 88 and failed it again. I'm NOT new to WoW. I'd been playing a Prot Warrior exclusively since BC. I've tanked every dungeon in the game before MoP. So I started grinding gold until I got the best gear I could get with the best enchantments. I literally had the best non-raid gear there was. (I'm not a raider) I took it again and failed again. I tried mapping out Pandaria on foot to locate any other quest trees but the endless grinding and lack of flight got old after a while. I took a break from playing it for a few days and went back one more time to try to pass it. Nope. That was it. I gave all my gold to my guild, said goodbye, and ended my account. So WoW is too easy? I think not.