This is exactly the type of content I like to see! There's so much trendy and buzzword stuff going around on RUclips, and it seems that a lot of it is exclusively for the sake of being different or "making it look cooler". I don't know how many topics there are within this range, but you guys should look into doing a semi-regular mythbusting series. I'm sure it would do well.
I like the taste test, but I do my reverse dry shakes a little different, and I feel like I've seen it done on other channels this way as well. I shake the ingredients WITHOUT egg white WITH ice first to dilute and chill the drink, then strain out the cocktail, ditch the ice and wipe down the shaker real quick to get ice shards out, THEN add the egg white and dry shake. I do this at home because I don't have the time to get really quality ice, so using standard freezer ice. In a regular dry shake, I find the egg white gets stuck to the freezer ice every single time, no matter how I temper it, hence why I do the reverse dry shake. No ice for the egg to stick to.
Not to my knowledge but maybe. Not sure there would be much difference as far as the aeration of the egg. If anything adding the egg white with the ice (since we’re using a big rock) is only going to help the foam and aeration seeing as you get less dilution with big ice
@@freepour I tried both methods and I was more convinced with a proper reverse dry shake. Shaking with ice then dry shaking without and adding a cold egg white. Would you try it out?
One of the other reasons to use the reverse dry shake is that your shaker is less likely to pull apart/explode. I can't remember the science but I believe Dave Arnold breaks it down in his book.
Witha reverse dry shake, you introduce the cooling effect of the ice in the first shake. The ice leads to a better seal, as it cools down the shaker, which contracts the metal. This way, the bigger tin squeezes the smaller tin, holding it in place.
@@slinpel3801 I think the main issue is less about the contraction of the metal and more about the vacuum created by the difference in temperature of the inside of shaker and the surroundings. Though that notion could actually probably be tested by shaking your cocktail in a walk-in freezer and see if that makes a significant difference in the seal.
The thing is that if you fine strain a Sour, big air bubbles break into Coffee Milk Cream kind of texture, which is much superior over the matter of shake technique
100% agree with you if you don’t fine strain the cocktail. Though I found (and I also made several side by side tests when training my staff) that when fine straining the reverse dry shaken cocktail, you break the larger bubbles you don’t like and get a stiff and silky foam, the same way you like it. I trained my staff with the reverse dry shake because it was more consistant throughout the whole team but that said, you really nail your sours with the regular dry shake so I don’t see why you should change it. All these methods and techniques are only good when they work best for you. People get triggered for stupid shit! I saw a meme this week that made me laugh so hard. It said “why a generation that was raised listening to South Park and family guys get offended so easily about everything and anything?” I thought it was genius and would apply to so many comments we get. It’s freaking cocktails guys! We’re not saving lives lol 😂 K bye 👋
Love this. But then the question becomes if you fine strain a reverse dry Shake do you trap enough foam in the strainer to make it less foamy thereby not getting a foamier drink? Gonna have to try it LOL
Actually I think when you fine strain the reverse dry shake just when removing the ice - before the iceless shake - you'll get a much larger foam than with the standard dry shake that you actually have to fine strain in the end (and remove quite some foam). I'll have to try the standard dry shake again, anyhow - because in the video that one looks much nicer indeed, especially with bitter stripes.
Having seen multiple of these tests I think this is one of (if not the) only one that highlighted the texture and quality of the foam instead of just amount. Kudos!
I agree with the other comments below. This myth busters style video is very entertaining. Here is a possible topic. Does flaming an orange peel really change the flavor enough to matter? Also does using a match vs a lighter really make that much of a difference? Nobody seems to want that butane flavor associated with the lighter. Keep up the great work.
Also, the reverse dry shake works best when you don't do the initial shake with egg. So shake all ingredients EXCEPT egg with ice THEN strain, dump ice, ADD EGG WHITE, and dry shake vigorously then pour contents into glass without straining (no need to strain now and the foam will be better if you don't) - happy mixing!
Great experiment and I loved Oh Cook. I do agree with you on the dry shake. I would much rather go for the one with the tight structure and nice bitters presentation.
Maybe another factor that comes into play is timing. Maybe how long the cocktail is sitting the cocktail will taste differently after a certain amount of time. You shook and strained the first cocktail as a regular shake, but you let it set longer than the second cocktail which was a reverse dry shake.
I suspect that shaking with ice AFTER dry shaking disrupts the foam (in a good way), leading to the tighter bubble structure... you're literally throwing a block of ice through foam bubbles over and over again, so I suspect that frees some of the air trapped in the foam.
There were at least 3 factors that negated the "side-by-side" test...the rest-time difference between the two, the lack of straining for the 2nd drink and a stickler would also say that the egg whites should be weighed as well. As I watched you fish out the ice on the reverse version, I was thinking to myself---if it's so subtle as to have to test for the difference, why do it the messier way?
Yeah but we’re testing this in real world scenarios not a lab where the result makes no difference (although some tests are best done in lab settings). Also the second drink didn’t need to be strained because there’s no ice left in it, would the strainer have broken up the bubbles on the top, maybe but not to the extent that it would have the same texture
@@freepour Thanks for the reply! Fair point on the "real world" aspect; that's how it would be done for service in the bar so that's the comparison. The time difference does still count for head-to -head though. I'd love to see a dry-shake versus wet only. The dry shake is just such a mess and the shaker lock can be tricky without ice.
If you have a cheap-ish shaker that leaks during a regular dry shake you should try the reverse dry shake. The metal is still cold from the ice so it keeps it sealed a lot better
I get that the big foams look good and get the likes on Instagram and stuff but cant for the life of me see why anyone would prefer more foam and less liquid in the glass of something you're actually going to drink
@@danielbeltran5763 I seriously doubt that dry shaking already very chilled ingredients in a very cold shaker will generate any noticeable difference in temperature in the cocktail.
One thing that might keep the bubbles tighter to give a silkier texture on the reverse would be the fine strain, maybe you should give that a go and see the difference in texture and foam on a reverse dry shake with no fine strain and a reverse dry shake with a fine strain! Just food for thought, love the content!
Great video! Bring on the pseudo-science! :) I think you did a great job of minimizing variables on this test and it's pretty fair. Thanks. I should tell you about the "Manhattan Project" that we did at Wingtip, my club, sometime. It was the height of pseudo-science cocktail investigation!
Curious if using the hawthorne strainer on the reverse dry shake one would have cut the foam even just a hair. Obviously not enough to compare to the standard sour, but I'm just thinking for apples to apples comp.
@@freepour it does work if you're hand squeezing as it softens up the lime/lemon hence making it easier to squeeze. Not rly if you're using a juicer though.
One of the reasons that your reverse dry shake had a looser foam was because it didn't pass through the strainer, which breaks up the larger bubbles and gets you a finer texture. I imagine if you took the ice out of the first one with your tongs and then dumped it out the foam would be looser in that version as well. I personally use a whip shake where you just use a single 1 inch cube, or a few bits of flake/pebble ice, and shake till you can't hear the ice anymore, and then strain the cocktail. Saves you a step, less chance of your tins coming apart, and I find I get a lot of high quality foam. It also means that I can just keep shaking for something like a Ramos Gin Fizz.
Dense foam > big foam for sure. I just started watching this series and I am really enjoying these kinds of videos. There are so many techniques you pick up bartending and rarely question the why- or at least that’s the case for me. What are your thoughts on the ‘damp’ shake?
I never do the reverse, but mostly because at my home bar I don't ant to run to the sink to dump the ice and then go back to rinse the tin. I just want to dry shake, shake, and then I'm done. The reverse is more complicated than it needs to be. Love the science!
Here are a few questions for ya - fruit peels, ant advice on how to not keep killing oranges for their skin? Regarding bitter dashers, why use the Japanese style versus the bungs in ango? Lastly, chilled glassware in the fridge vs. insta-chill by using ice and cold water while you mix.
Notice how the egg white touches the outer shell a lot when he's separating it? It's much safer to use a shot glass, slotted spoon, or even a regular bar spoon to separate. Crack the egg and dump the entire egg into the mixer glass that doesn't have any other ingredients then scoop the yolk out with a bar spoon OR dump entire egg into a shot glass and use a spoon or other shot glass to strain the white out into the mixer OR place a large slotted spoon over mixer and dump egg over it so white falls through then toss yolk.
I use and stand by the reverse dry shake but I think that's mainly because I'm forced to use regular freezer ice for my cocktails at home which tends to break up the foam way too much. Using just the big block instead I think is a lot better and gets you that clean, firm foam.
How about testing the two methods using the ramos gin fizz as the cocktail? The addition of the soda water on top of the foam should make for an interesting metric to compare see which one can grow more.
Nice to see this test again! But you guys already did it on your main channel a while ago, if I remember correctly :) Nevertheless great content keep it up!
WOW, that was super interesting. Personally I do not like the reverse shake, since it is way more messy and I do not see the point. But the touch with the bitters - that was genious move. If that is not convincing, I guess nothing will. Cheers guys!
I’m wondering what you mean by reverse dry shaking being “way more messy”? If I had to find an argument for reverse dry shaking, it would be that, given that you cool down the contents before you dry shake, you will be likely to get a vacuum seal during the dry shaking and hence less risk of making a mess?
Thank you for the great video. I've never bothered with the reverse dry shake because, quite frankly, I didn't want to bother with the extra step of removing the ice mid preparation and was always satisfied with the result of a standard dry shake. I feel rather vindicated.
One day I thought "Why not whip shake?!" and I've been doing it since! It saves me from having to open the shaker twice, and I control the dilution. Also, by not having to strain it, I get ALL the foam, no foam wasted on the fine strainer. I might look into changing that.
It would have been interesting to weigh the ice cubes after the shake as well to see if there was a difference in dilution and with that find the "correct" amount of dilution in a sense. Maybe the reverse shake was diluted more which led to a less than ideal foam? Being inspired by some of your Tiki videos I have started to whip shake my sours lately. I just drop in a small piece of ice and shake 'til it's gone. Similar to the reverse shake the drink is diluted before texture starts building. However, I am having some great results and it is rather convenient not to split the tin until pouring the drink and it helps to seal the tin aswell. Maybe something you are willing to try out? Thanks for the video, it really was an interesting comparison, keep up all the good work :D
I found ostensible value using the RDS method as I felt that it created less pressure and thus a less messy cocktail making experience. I always found the foam to be more bubbly and not as nice - which your video just confirmed why.
I use the technique as standard in my bar because some of my bartenders don't have much of a developed shake yet. It definitely produces a foam, easier than a regular dry shake. Also you still need to run the foam through a fine strainer to stop the larger bubbles forming
Thx that was a good comparisons. Both techniques are good, just need to adapt to the type of cocktail. I agree with you, for a straight up the dry shake is better.
That's why it's called the reverse dry shake, and not the other way around :-D I would love to learn how you get better froth on sours without egg whites. I don't get consistent froths on those
I notice the uruapan charanda in the top corner(blue bottle). I’ve grown to love it! Like a salty olive brine rum. Makes me think if tequila and Rhum agricole had a baby. Can you make something to showcase it? I’ve liked it with homemade grenadine and lime juice
I’ve read about and my go to is shaking just the egg white, then adding the rest of the ingredients and ice and shaking again. I’m curious about the difference in foam quality/quantity compared to the “normal” shake
Yeah I suppose it depends on what you’re looking to get out of your foam. I could always tell dry shaking made more foam but my bitters garnishes always lacked definition. Standard dry shake for me too.
I've been having trouble with my egg white cocktails recently. Not sure if it's the freshness of the eggs, the temperate of the eggs, or the quality of the ice, but I've not been getting a very good foam. I'm using the standard dry shake method, same as I used to, but results are worse...
You did everything to make the test equal EXCEPT measure your egg whites. Those proteins are responsible for the foam, so that part of the comparison should've been absolutely spot on between techniques.
Kinda funny because I’ve noticed in service environments, reverse dry shaking was getting me a tighter foam than I was getting from the alternative, that’s why I switched. However I do double strain regardless which may have something to do with it.
I’d have to do a little testing but I think a gated pour is causing a difference in your results. Because even when I lazily don’t double strain and just do a gated pour, I’m getting a tighter, more stable foam from a reverse dry shake than from the alternative.
I’m usually using reverse dry shake and I can say that , if you would use fine strainer , the quality of foam would be the same , but amount of foam would be more then classic dry shake .
Hey my friend, I wanna ask you. In my opinion and my bartending career and research I need to say that whisky sour is without egg white. As soon as you put egg white inside it should call Boston sour right ? ( It is just my point many people are calling it whisky sour, so could you please make it clear for me ) thanks. Regarding to foams I am big fan of dry shake first and then you put ice in a shaker and shake again, because foam is much better and when you are looking from customer side. Reverse dry shake means that you are warming up cocktail with your hand. Specialy during the summer nights people wanna have cold drinks especially Americans. It is just my opinion no offense. By the way I like your videos and keep it doing. Greetings from Slovakia
You really did your best to mess up the reversed in order to proof your point and your preference. I make perfect bitter stripes in my reversed. Thick silky creamy foam is what you get from a proper reversed dry shake.
I believe this reverse dry shake will heat up the drink compared to the regular shake... Because shaking will add heat because of the friction and also from the hands holding the shaker... Did you feel so while drinking??
I’m totally with you on the original dry shake. The texture is so much better. And there’s certainly enough foam. A “foamier” cocktail doesn’t mean it’s a better cocktail. In fact, you have less liquid to drink. So I certainly wouldn’t want to pay for more foam at a bar. (It’s why I often don’t order cappuccino.)
I would choose the one that doesn't have a bug sitting on the side of the glass. But that's just me... Jokes aside, great video! Thanks for the content. Question: I sometimes take the spring from the strainer and place it in the shaker to (supposedly) help with the foam. Do you think that might help? I might have to do a test like the one you just did.
@@Barprints I'm thinking that the imprefections in the homemade ice will increase the surface area and thereby cool and dilute the drink faster. Idk. Would be cool to see.
Timing the shake may have helped but the biggest improvement would have been to measure the egg-whites too - or better still, combine the two egg-whites separately and then measure equal amounts of that mixture for each cocktail. Volume and quality can vary significantly from egg to egg. Not that I'm disputing the result - but I'm all for minimising experimental error! Reverse dry shake does also greatly reduces the risk of the shaker 'exploding', too. And it cannot be over-stated how important it is for the shaker to be pristine clean for a decent foam. Try making a Sour after picking up the same rinsed-out tin you made a Mudslide in and you'll see...
Yeah but nobody is going to do that are they? These test are meant to be in real world scenarios either in the bar or at home. Nobody is measuring egg whites. That said we shot a follow up to this yesterday and I’m excited to share that with you. The exploding tin happens to us all but it’s just a matter of properly locking your tins.
@@freepour Oh absolutely - no-one actually measures their egg-white out, just like no-one actually times their shake every time. I just meant for the purposes of this experiment it might have been as important.
We redid it with some pretty good results but you’re right eggs are the wildcard because they’re the only variable you’re unable to control without extra steps
No, there’s heavy cream in the Ramos what you’re trying to do there is whip the cream by hand creating a stable foam that’ll rise when club soda is added
One problem for me with the reverse is that it doesn't come out as cold as the regular shake. Not a huge deal but definitely noticeable. Nice video, I've done a lot of comparisons but never head to head.
I've tried making an aviation a few times and it hasn't been great, I've figured out that the Drillaud violet liquor I have is pretty bottom shelf. I was wondering if you could get a couple different violet liquors and test which one makes the best aviation? Also....that egg separator.....I wonder if the separation is different if it's fresh eggs vs older eggs. Food for thought.
Personally, I only reverse dry shake if I'm also muddling herbs or fruit, because I don't like fine straining egg white cocktails, gives it a bit of a "tight" texture and I find all the pulpy bits are detrimental to the foam. For all other uses, regular dry shake it is.
Would have been a better apples to apples comparison if you strained both cocktails instead of doing an unstrained pour of the reverse dry shake. You're complaint about the larger bubbles in the reverse dry shale might be resolved with the strain through a Hawthorne strainer, specifically going through a tight coil. It looked like you held back some of the cocktail in the tin too. Maybe use a bigger coupe glass so you can pour out all of the liquid in the tin for a fair comparison.
I thought the comment about the strainer was fair so I gave it a whirl this afternoon and through a Hawthorne strainer it made absolutely no difference in foam quality. Maybe that would work through a fine strainer but you’d lose foam and we didn’t want that to happen.
I would hypothesize that the reason you get those results is that the egg white in the reversed drink is already more diluted when the majority of the aeration happens. It's the same type of thing that happens when you steam skim milk or milk alternatives with an espresso machine. Full fat milk gives you that creamy, light microfoam, while low/no fat gives you a thicker head of foam, and a dryer texture.
Would to love see how orange juice behaves in cocktails & if it is problematic, what the solutions would be, either bitters or more acid. It seems to pop up in some classics, like the Monkey Gland, the Bronx & the Blood & Sand, so these could be used as examples.
Nice video. On a personal level, I don't like making egg white drinks myself at home. Just something about wasting half the egg and not having a use for it bothers me, as well as the wet dog smell you can get from the egg white. I will drink it at a bar though. Regardless, the regular dry shake drink looks far better. The other looks like something I'd make! I'm sure it's nice, but the presentation/garnish is not all there
So the reverse dry shake better aerates the foam. But what I want from the foam on a sour is a thick silky quality. Which will only result from a little less aeration coming from the regular dry shake. Tighter bubbles make for a silkier, more rich texture. That's my take away anyway.
Leandro, I had to tell you this story: My daughter caught me watching your main channel and asked, "Why's it called BARF-lee?" When I explained that it's pronounced "bar-fly," she said that sounded a lot better, and not like you're making cocktails that people would get sick (barf) from. LOL
So as a bartender we have one cocktail with egg whites. And after seeing this video I make it different everyone and switch between different techniques and referees dry shaking gives me a better foam every time. Maybe it’s just the type of egg whites we use or what but that’s just my personal experience
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
This is exactly the type of content I like to see! There's so much trendy and buzzword stuff going around on RUclips, and it seems that a lot of it is exclusively for the sake of being different or "making it look cooler". I don't know how many topics there are within this range, but you guys should look into doing a semi-regular mythbusting series. I'm sure it would do well.
We’re on it :)
Agreed! Dig into the nitty gritty 👍
I agree with everyone here, make Mythbusting a mini series, or a regular thing! love the content, but im still waiting for the next syrup episode!😁
Shooting it soon and will be airing in April or so
Honestly the only time I reverse dry shake is when Im busy and realized I added ice and started shaking and had to make it work.
It’s happened to us all LOL
This is probably how it started. someone did it by accident then tried to play it off like it was intentional. "No, it's a new technique"
Ha! me too.
Exactly. I’m the same
Facts!!!
That white yolk separator was hilarious, it looked like it was puking.
Your comment had me hoping it was an effective tool
If you turn on subtitles, the opening line says “barf life” instead of barfly
We've all had nights where we end up like that chicken...
Come for the shake. Stay for the chicken spanking.
I like the taste test, but I do my reverse dry shakes a little different, and I feel like I've seen it done on other channels this way as well. I shake the ingredients WITHOUT egg white WITH ice first to dilute and chill the drink, then strain out the cocktail, ditch the ice and wipe down the shaker real quick to get ice shards out, THEN add the egg white and dry shake. I do this at home because I don't have the time to get really quality ice, so using standard freezer ice. In a regular dry shake, I find the egg white gets stuck to the freezer ice every single time, no matter how I temper it, hence why I do the reverse dry shake. No ice for the egg to stick to.
Aren't you supposed to add the egg white AFTER shaking with ice in a reverse dry shake? I can't believe nobody else caught this.
Not to my knowledge but maybe. Not sure there would be much difference as far as the aeration of the egg. If anything adding the egg white with the ice (since we’re using a big rock) is only going to help the foam and aeration seeing as you get less dilution with big ice
Yes, I thought the same thing too!!
You definitely are supposed to add the egg white afterwards.
@@freepour I tried both methods and I was more convinced with a proper reverse dry shake. Shaking with ice then dry shaking without and adding a cold egg white. Would you try it out?
Yes it's supposed to be added after
One of the other reasons to use the reverse dry shake is that your shaker is less likely to pull apart/explode. I can't remember the science but I believe Dave Arnold breaks it down in his book.
That's why I do it, but tbh I might try the normal one after this video
Witha reverse dry shake, you introduce the cooling effect of the ice in the first shake. The ice leads to a better seal, as it cools down the shaker, which contracts the metal. This way, the bigger tin squeezes the smaller tin, holding it in place.
@@slinpel3801 I think the main issue is less about the contraction of the metal and more about the vacuum created by the difference in temperature of the inside of shaker and the surroundings.
Though that notion could actually probably be tested by shaking your cocktail in a walk-in freezer and see if that makes a significant difference in the seal.
The thing is that if you fine strain a Sour, big air bubbles break into Coffee Milk Cream kind of texture, which is much superior over the matter of shake technique
Fine strained is definitely also easier to garnish than without.
100% agree with you if you don’t fine strain the cocktail. Though I found (and I also made several side by side tests when training my staff) that when fine straining the reverse dry shaken cocktail, you break the larger bubbles you don’t like and get a stiff and silky foam, the same way you like it. I trained my staff with the reverse dry shake because it was more consistant throughout the whole team but that said, you really nail your sours with the regular dry shake so I don’t see why you should change it. All these methods and techniques are only good when they work best for you. People get triggered for stupid shit! I saw a meme this week that made me laugh so hard. It said “why a generation that was raised listening to South Park and family guys get offended so easily about everything and anything?” I thought it was genius and would apply to so many comments we get. It’s freaking cocktails guys! We’re not saving lives lol 😂 K bye 👋
Love this. But then the question becomes if you fine strain a reverse dry Shake do you trap enough foam in the strainer to make it less foamy thereby not getting a foamier drink? Gonna have to try it LOL
@@freepour 😂🧐🤪
Actually I think when you fine strain the reverse dry shake just when removing the ice - before the iceless shake - you'll get a much larger foam than with the standard dry shake that you actually have to fine strain in the end (and remove quite some foam). I'll have to try the standard dry shake again, anyhow - because in the video that one looks much nicer indeed, especially with bitter stripes.
Given your rant, I take it you watch South Park and Family Guy? Lol.
Having seen multiple of these tests I think this is one of (if not the) only one that highlighted the texture and quality of the foam instead of just amount. Kudos!
I agree with the other comments below. This myth busters style video is very entertaining. Here is a possible topic. Does flaming an orange peel really change the flavor enough to matter? Also does using a match vs a lighter really make that much of a difference? Nobody seems to want that butane flavor associated with the lighter. Keep up the great work.
Great video! Saves people so much time seeing you test it. Cheers!
I have always prefered the Dry shake, and never fully understood why... This was a great test!! Cheers!
I haven't done a reverse dry shake in a while. This was great to remind me of the benefits of both.
Nice analysis Leandro! I agree that the standard dry shake foam looks more taut and refined.
Also, the reverse dry shake works best when you don't do the initial shake with egg. So shake all ingredients EXCEPT egg with ice THEN strain, dump ice, ADD EGG WHITE, and dry shake vigorously then pour contents into glass without straining (no need to strain now and the foam will be better if you don't) - happy mixing!
If you fine strain your reverse dry shaken cocktail the bubbles in your foam will be tighter like the traditionally shaken drink.
10:58 "Frothier Cocktail but I still won't use it, So suck it Internet Nerds!" :)
Great experiment and I loved Oh Cook. I do agree with you on the dry shake. I would much rather go for the one with the tight structure and nice bitters presentation.
Maybe another factor that comes into play is timing. Maybe how long the cocktail is sitting the cocktail will taste differently after a certain amount of time. You shook and strained the first cocktail as a regular shake, but you let it set longer than the second cocktail which was a reverse dry shake.
Very awesome. It can sometimes be frustrating as a home bartender to decide what is just "the new thing" and what actually works. Great video.
I suspect that shaking with ice AFTER dry shaking disrupts the foam (in a good way), leading to the tighter bubble structure... you're literally throwing a block of ice through foam bubbles over and over again, so I suspect that frees some of the air trapped in the foam.
There were at least 3 factors that negated the "side-by-side" test...the rest-time difference between the two, the lack of straining for the 2nd drink and a stickler would also say that the egg whites should be weighed as well.
As I watched you fish out the ice on the reverse version, I was thinking to myself---if it's so subtle as to have to test for the difference, why do it the messier way?
Yeah but we’re testing this in real world scenarios not a lab where the result makes no difference (although some tests are best done in lab settings). Also the second drink didn’t need to be strained because there’s no ice left in it, would the strainer have broken up the bubbles on the top, maybe but not to the extent that it would have the same texture
@@freepour Thanks for the reply! Fair point on the "real world" aspect; that's how it would be done for service in the bar so that's the comparison. The time difference does still count for head-to -head though. I'd love to see a dry-shake versus wet only. The dry shake is just such a mess and the shaker lock can be tricky without ice.
You blinded me with SCIENCE! Great stuff
🤣
Where did you get that citrus juicer? Maybe you can review it? I've been trying to choose a good juicer
I was also wondering about that!
If you have a cheap-ish shaker that leaks during a regular dry shake you should try the reverse dry shake. The metal is still cold from the ice so it keeps it sealed a lot better
WOW when you made the bitters drop. Epic scene and genuine reaction!
I get that the big foams look good and get the likes on Instagram and stuff but cant for the life of me see why anyone would prefer more foam and less liquid in the glass of something you're actually going to drink
Algo, nobody is mentioning. But dry-shaking generates heat, so the drink won't be really chilled when serving it.
@@danielbeltran5763 I seriously doubt that dry shaking already very chilled ingredients in a very cold shaker will generate any noticeable difference in temperature in the cocktail.
One thing that might keep the bubbles tighter to give a silkier texture on the reverse would be the fine strain, maybe you should give that a go and see the difference in texture and foam on a reverse dry shake with no fine strain and a reverse dry shake with a fine strain! Just food for thought, love the content!
Great video, thanks. Have reversed shaked only once and it was because I put the ice first without thinking. Did not like the foam either.
Great video! Bring on the pseudo-science! :) I think you did a great job of minimizing variables on this test and it's pretty fair. Thanks. I should tell you about the "Manhattan Project" that we did at Wingtip, my club, sometime. It was the height of pseudo-science cocktail investigation!
Curious if using the hawthorne strainer on the reverse dry shake one would have cut the foam even just a hair. Obviously not enough to compare to the standard sour, but I'm just thinking for apples to apples comp.
This is exactly what I'm going to test later, I can't trust myself to have two sours at 9am though.
Test that old Wives Tale about "Rolling your Citrus before squeezing to get more Juice". I always do it but am like "this isn't doing anything".
I can tell you right now it’s a myth LOL but good idea for an episode!
@@freepour I don''t know....Old Wives totally know things and Tell Tales. Haha
From my understanding it expresses oils into the juice leading to a stronger flavor not necessarily more liquid.
If you hand squeeze it yeah it totally works. Squishing it beforehand is easier
@@freepour it does work if you're hand squeezing as it softens up the lime/lemon hence making it easier to squeeze. Not rly if you're using a juicer though.
Great video! Always wondered about this. Thanks guys
One of the reasons that your reverse dry shake had a looser foam was because it didn't pass through the strainer, which breaks up the larger bubbles and gets you a finer texture. I imagine if you took the ice out of the first one with your tongs and then dumped it out the foam would be looser in that version as well.
I personally use a whip shake where you just use a single 1 inch cube, or a few bits of flake/pebble ice, and shake till you can't hear the ice anymore, and then strain the cocktail.
Saves you a step, less chance of your tins coming apart, and I find I get a lot of high quality foam. It also means that I can just keep shaking for something like a Ramos Gin Fizz.
Dense foam > big foam for sure. I just started watching this series and I am really enjoying these kinds of videos. There are so many techniques you pick up bartending and rarely question the why- or at least that’s the case for me. What are your thoughts on the ‘damp’ shake?
I never do the reverse, but mostly because at my home bar I don't ant to run to the sink to dump the ice and then go back to rinse the tin. I just want to dry shake, shake, and then I'm done. The reverse is more complicated than it needs to be. Love the science!
This is great content, really like seeing this kind of stuff. Keep it coming
Here are a few questions for ya - fruit peels, ant advice on how to not keep killing oranges for their skin? Regarding bitter dashers, why use the Japanese style versus the bungs in ango? Lastly, chilled glassware in the fridge vs. insta-chill by using ice and cold water while you mix.
Notice how the egg white touches the outer shell a lot when he's separating it? It's much safer to use a shot glass, slotted spoon, or even a regular bar spoon to separate. Crack the egg and dump the entire egg into the mixer glass that doesn't have any other ingredients then scoop the yolk out with a bar spoon OR dump entire egg into a shot glass and use a spoon or other shot glass to strain the white out into the mixer OR place a large slotted spoon over mixer and dump egg over it so white falls through then toss yolk.
I use and stand by the reverse dry shake but I think that's mainly because I'm forced to use regular freezer ice for my cocktails at home which tends to break up the foam way too much. Using just the big block instead I think is a lot better and gets you that clean, firm foam.
How about testing the two methods using the ramos gin fizz as the cocktail? The addition of the soda water on top of the foam should make for an interesting metric to compare see which one can grow more.
Nice to see this test again! But you guys already did it on your main channel a while ago, if I remember correctly :) Nevertheless great content keep it up!
WOW, that was super interesting. Personally I do not like the reverse shake, since it is way more messy and I do not see the point. But the touch with the bitters - that was genious move. If that is not convincing, I guess nothing will. Cheers guys!
I’m wondering what you mean by reverse dry shaking being “way more messy”?
If I had to find an argument for reverse dry shaking, it would be that, given that you cool down the contents before you dry shake, you will be likely to get a vacuum seal during the dry shaking and hence less risk of making a mess?
Big fan of this format
Thank you for the great video. I've never bothered with the reverse dry shake because, quite frankly, I didn't want to bother with the extra step of removing the ice mid preparation and was always satisfied with the result of a standard dry shake. I feel rather vindicated.
One day I thought "Why not whip shake?!" and I've been doing it since! It saves me from having to open the shaker twice, and I control the dilution. Also, by not having to strain it, I get ALL the foam, no foam wasted on the fine strainer. I might look into changing that.
It would have been interesting to weigh the ice cubes after the shake as well to see if there was a difference in dilution and with that find the "correct" amount of dilution in a sense. Maybe the reverse shake was diluted more which led to a less than ideal foam?
Being inspired by some of your Tiki videos I have started to whip shake my sours lately. I just drop in a small piece of ice and shake 'til it's gone. Similar to the reverse shake the drink is diluted before texture starts building. However, I am having some great results and it is rather convenient not to split the tin until pouring the drink and it helps to seal the tin aswell. Maybe something you are willing to try out?
Thanks for the video, it really was an interesting comparison, keep up all the good work :D
This was a great experiment. Highly useful.
I found ostensible value using the RDS method as I felt that it created less pressure and thus a less messy cocktail making experience. I always found the foam to be more bubbly and not as nice - which your video just confirmed why.
I use the technique as standard in my bar because some of my bartenders don't have much of a developed shake yet. It definitely produces a foam, easier than a regular dry shake.
Also you still need to run the foam through a fine strainer to stop the larger bubbles forming
Thx that was a good comparisons. Both techniques are good, just need to adapt to the type of cocktail. I agree with you, for a straight up the dry shake is better.
That's why it's called the reverse dry shake, and not the other way around :-D
I would love to learn how you get better froth on sours without egg whites. I don't get consistent froths on those
I notice the uruapan charanda in the top corner(blue bottle). I’ve grown to love it! Like a salty olive brine rum. Makes me think if tequila and Rhum agricole had a baby. Can you make something to showcase it? I’ve liked it with homemade grenadine and lime juice
The classic shake looks amazing. The reverse is a mess. This is a great video.
The bitters test really made the difference here, so much cleaner.
Good topic! A friend and I have been discussing this recently
I’ve read about and my go to is shaking just the egg white, then adding the rest of the ingredients and ice and shaking again. I’m curious about the difference in foam quality/quantity compared to the “normal” shake
Hmm may have to put it to the test in the future
Yeah I suppose it depends on what you’re looking to get out of your foam. I could always tell dry shaking made more foam but my bitters garnishes always lacked definition. Standard dry shake for me too.
I've been having trouble with my egg white cocktails recently. Not sure if it's the freshness of the eggs, the temperate of the eggs, or the quality of the ice, but I've not been getting a very good foam. I'm using the standard dry shake method, same as I used to, but results are worse...
You did everything to make the test equal EXCEPT measure your egg whites. Those proteins are responsible for the foam, so that part of the comparison should've been absolutely spot on between techniques.
Kinda funny because I’ve noticed in service environments, reverse dry shaking was getting me a tighter foam than I was getting from the alternative, that’s why I switched. However I do double strain regardless which may have something to do with it.
I’d have to do a little testing but I think a gated pour is causing a difference in your results. Because even when I lazily don’t double strain and just do a gated pour, I’m getting a tighter, more stable foam from a reverse dry shake than from the alternative.
The reverse dry shake would be good for lemon meringue or key lime sour where you would torch the top. Maybe?
I’m usually using reverse dry shake and I can say that , if you would use fine strainer , the quality of foam would be the same , but amount of foam would be more then classic dry shake .
How about Shaken vs Stirred Vesper !!! Cheers from Lima Perú
It would have been good to see you use the coil from a strainer with ice and no dry shake just to get a full comparison.
Hey my friend, I wanna ask you. In my opinion and my bartending career and research I need to say that whisky sour is without egg white. As soon as you put egg white inside it should call Boston sour right ? ( It is just my point many people are calling it whisky sour, so could you please make it clear for me ) thanks. Regarding to foams I am big fan of dry shake first and then you put ice in a shaker and shake again, because foam is much better and when you are looking from customer side. Reverse dry shake means that you are warming up cocktail with your hand. Specialy during the summer nights people wanna have cold drinks especially Americans. It is just my opinion no offense.
By the way I like your videos and keep it doing. Greetings from Slovakia
There's the beginnings of a reverse shake Orange Julius cocktail floating around in my mind now
More stuff like this please!
Rapid infusions vs sous vide infusions with different types of fruits and herbs?
Yep. Been meaning to break out the Sous vide for a while was thinking of rapid bitters versus bitters macerated for months
You really did your best to mess up the reversed in order to proof your point and your preference. I make perfect bitter stripes in my reversed. Thick silky creamy foam is what you get from a proper reversed dry shake.
I believe this reverse dry shake will heat up the drink compared to the regular shake... Because shaking will add heat because of the friction and also from the hands holding the shaker... Did you feel so while drinking??
That bird has the biggest Lougie I have ever seen! In comparison to his body. haha
Lol. My thoughts exactly
Incredibly interesting. More stuff like this! (Though recipe videos are always enjoyable, too.)
I’m totally with you on the original dry shake. The texture is so much better. And there’s certainly enough foam. A “foamier” cocktail doesn’t mean it’s a better cocktail. In fact, you have less liquid to drink. So I certainly wouldn’t want to pay for more foam at a bar. (It’s why I often don’t order cappuccino.)
I would choose the one that doesn't have a bug sitting on the side of the glass. But that's just me...
Jokes aside, great video! Thanks for the content.
Question: I sometimes take the spring from the strainer and place it in the shaker to (supposedly) help with the foam. Do you think that might help? I might have to do a test like the one you just did.
It's a bar fly, we felt bad for chasing it away :P Only really saw it when we started editing, and oh well. It happens :)
That bit of egg white that couldn't break off of the device's beak really looks like a filled-up condom and it's hilarious.
I would like to see a test on if regular home made icecubes will preform as well as fanzy ice, when used to stir drinks. Not in the presentation part.
That would be cool; but my money's on the "fancy" ice!
@@Barprints I'm thinking that the imprefections in the homemade ice will increase the surface area and thereby cool and dilute the drink faster.
Idk. Would be cool to see.
Timing the shake may have helped but the biggest improvement would have been to measure the egg-whites too - or better still, combine the two egg-whites separately and then measure equal amounts of that mixture for each cocktail. Volume and quality can vary significantly from egg to egg. Not that I'm disputing the result - but I'm all for minimising experimental error!
Reverse dry shake does also greatly reduces the risk of the shaker 'exploding', too. And it cannot be over-stated how important it is for the shaker to be pristine clean for a decent foam. Try making a Sour after picking up the same rinsed-out tin you made a Mudslide in and you'll see...
Yeah but nobody is going to do that are they? These test are meant to be in real world scenarios either in the bar or at home. Nobody is measuring egg whites. That said we shot a follow up to this yesterday and I’m excited to share that with you. The exploding tin happens to us all but it’s just a matter of properly locking your tins.
@@freepour Oh absolutely - no-one actually measures their egg-white out, just like no-one actually times their shake every time. I just meant for the purposes of this experiment it might have been as important.
We redid it with some pretty good results but you’re right eggs are the wildcard because they’re the only variable you’re unable to control without extra steps
If you don't want big foam then strain it using a sieve obviously
Have you guys tested one large ice chunk vs one large and one cracked (like Greg) vs all cracked ice?
lol, the irony of calling a bourbon straight edge
I've actually done this test before, and I agree. I prefer the regular dry shake.
I like doing it solely for the purpose that it makes leaks less likely while dry shaking
If you get a frothier cocktail, would the reverse dry shake maybe work better with something like the Ramos?
For something like a Ramos Gin Fizz, isn't the strong, bubbly foam from the reverse dry shake exactly what you want?
No, there’s heavy cream in the Ramos what you’re trying to do there is whip the cream by hand creating a stable foam that’ll rise when club soda is added
One problem for me with the reverse is that it doesn't come out as cold as the regular shake. Not a huge deal but definitely noticeable. Nice video, I've done a lot of comparisons but never head to head.
I've tried making an aviation a few times and it hasn't been great, I've figured out that the Drillaud violet liquor I have is pretty bottom shelf. I was wondering if you could get a couple different violet liquors and test which one makes the best aviation? Also....that egg separator.....I wonder if the separation is different if it's fresh eggs vs older eggs. Food for thought.
Oh definitely
What occurs when you don't dry shake at all?
Personally, I only reverse dry shake if I'm also muddling herbs or fruit, because I don't like fine straining egg white cocktails, gives it a bit of a "tight" texture and I find all the pulpy bits are detrimental to the foam. For all other uses, regular dry shake it is.
My secret is a coffee foamer . It makes THE most foam I have ever done. After shaking I do it and it’s super fluffy every time
Would have been a better apples to apples comparison if you strained both cocktails instead of doing an unstrained pour of the reverse dry shake. You're complaint about the larger bubbles in the reverse dry shale might be resolved with the strain through a Hawthorne strainer, specifically going through a tight coil.
It looked like you held back some of the cocktail in the tin too. Maybe use a bigger coupe glass so you can pour out all of the liquid in the tin for a fair comparison.
I thought the comment about the strainer was fair so I gave it a whirl this afternoon and through a Hawthorne strainer it made absolutely no difference in foam quality. Maybe that would work through a fine strainer but you’d lose foam and we didn’t want that to happen.
I am still waiting for your Falernum video by the way :)
I would hypothesize that the reason you get those results is that the egg white in the reversed drink is already more diluted when the majority of the aeration happens. It's the same type of thing that happens when you steam skim milk or milk alternatives with an espresso machine.
Full fat milk gives you that creamy, light microfoam, while low/no fat gives you a thicker head of foam, and a dryer texture.
Would to love see how orange juice behaves in cocktails & if it is problematic, what the solutions would be, either bitters or more acid. It seems to pop up in some classics, like the Monkey Gland, the Bronx & the Blood & Sand, so these could be used as examples.
Nice video. On a personal level, I don't like making egg white drinks myself at home. Just something about wasting half the egg and not having a use for it bothers me, as well as the wet dog smell you can get from the egg white. I will drink it at a bar though. Regardless, the regular dry shake drink looks far better. The other looks like something I'd make! I'm sure it's nice, but the presentation/garnish is not all there
So the reverse dry shake better aerates the foam. But what I want from the foam on a sour is a thick silky quality. Which will only result from a little less aeration coming from the regular dry shake. Tighter bubbles make for a silkier, more rich texture. That's my take away anyway.
Leandro, I had to tell you this story: My daughter caught me watching your main channel and asked, "Why's it called BARF-lee?"
When I explained that it's pronounced "bar-fly," she said that sounded a lot better, and not like you're making cocktails that people would get sick (barf) from. LOL
😂
I admit, when I first saw that word, I also read it as barf-lee
Can you compare refrigerator ice to high quality ice?
Like homemade ice or the stuff that comes out of your fridge and that you buy at your local grocery store vs the ice company ice?
So as a bartender we have one cocktail with egg whites. And after seeing this video I make it different everyone and switch between different techniques and referees dry shaking gives me a better foam every time. Maybe it’s just the type of egg whites we use or what but that’s just my personal experience