If nothing else, the reverse dry shake holds the tin together better because the liquid is cold while you're dry shaking the egg white. That in itself is worth it for me.
I don't think it holds the tin together better. The reason there's a seal is because of the contraction of the metal due to the temperature change. Although, the liquid and tin are cold during the second shaking, there's no temperature modification hence no contraction.
@@TitiPapillon The cold liquid cools the room temperature air inside the shaker and contracts the volume of the air. I've tried dry shaking first and the tin does not stay together without help, but the reverse dry shake stays together just fine.
At home I shake all dry shake cocktails in a Parisian shaker. I don’t get the problem of the liquid exploding all over me because of the tighter seal. I assume a cobbler shaker would yield similar results but then idk what the strainer in it with those huge holes would do to the foam.
11:15 To use regular ice instead of a single big cube, instead of picking cube per cube you can just use the Hawthorne to strain the cocktail from one tin (with the ice) into the other (with no ice), discard the ice, add the egg white and shake. Or you can just not bother and do a regular dry shake...
@@freepour In my experience, the lack of readily available good big cube ice is a big part of the reason for doing a reverse dry shake. I make good clear cube ice for drinks that I want to serve on a big block of ice, but there is no way I'm going to "waste" my good ice just shaking a drink I'm going to have served up. I just don't have the time + space in my freezer for that to be viable as a home bartender. Therefore I shake my cocktails with freezer ice. Freezer ice is pretty horrible for shaking though. It chips and cracks in the tin. A normal dry shake technique leaves me with zero foam because it all gets caught up in the ice "sludge" left behind by the sub-standard ice. A reverse dry shake has totally fixed this problem for me. I can chill and dilute my drink. Set it in my chilled coup, removing the bad ice by using a fine mesh strainer. Rince the tin, then dry shake with the egg white. This way the ice doesn't get in the way of my foam. It's definitely more steps/more work than I'd like. But since I'm only making drinks for me, and the alternative is no foam at all, it is more than worth it for me.
@@TheSuperLee1 This is exactly the same reason why I reverse dry shake. The place I used to work used pretty low quality ice (uneven in size, not hard, chipped a bunch), so when I did a normal dry shake, there wasn't enough foam even after shaking really hard for a long time. Also we had to double strain (hawthorne and fine mesh) all egg white cocktails and the mesh strainers were crap and always blocked some foam, so the lackluster amount of foam from the normal dry shake became even less. The reverse dry shake was just so much more consistent in quantity and quality was the same b/c we used strainers. Guess it mostly boils down to ice quality and the strainers.
I really appreciate you listening to the comments and doing a revised test, 29 minutes long and making 5 drinks. Setting a high bar for RUclips. No pun intended haha.
My pendantic comment for the day: An additional variable is the consistency of energy with which each drink was shaken. To make it truly adhere to scientific methods, a non-tiring shaking system is needed. 🤓 Okay, I’ll show myself out. ❤️
I’m so glad you did this! I was just having a very long conversation with a friend tonight on exactly this topic. I’ve gone through phases of reverse shake vs traditional dry shake, including adding a wire ball mixer to the tin. Single strain vs. double strain, etc. I’ve found that for me, a traditional dry shake first, then with ice, then double strain is the best balance of presentation AND effort. Also, fresh eggs is very important!
This is an awesome video! I'm a science guy, so this is just me exploring how I'd run a follow up experiment: First, due to the results of your experiment, I would only need to look at regular dry and double strained reverse. Second, I would pre-mix the egg whites so it's all homogenous and differences in eggs can't affect the outcome. Third, I'd run each "set" by making one version, immediately doing a bitters test after pouring (and foam has settled enough), and then would repeat for the other version, and I would run three of these sets. Finally, I'd make the two versions in glasses labeled "A" and "B", and then I'd give them to someone who doesn't know which is which, and is instructed specifically to judge the foam quality. (Also, I would definitely use a cheaper whiskey for these experiments.)
Love this comment! I gotta say I was wondering what a more rigorous experiment would look like. Also gotta say I'd be using at most a twenty dollar bottle for something like this 🥃
I have never heard about anyone complaining about foam in their beer. Everyone but an unknowledgeable twit knows you need some head. I haven’t met one of those people.
@@mrsmartypants_1 I was once the kind of person who thought beer should have little to no foam. I was under that false impression because when I was first drinking I was under age being taught to drink by another under age drinker. It wasn’t until I was of legal age and had been for awhile that I learned that foam was important to have.
@@AlmightBlingo Gotcha. Understandable. I grew up in a state where beer was life itself and kids went to the bars with their parents. The drinking age was 18 but almost anyone 16 and over would get served 😂
Good that you did a second video n the topic, cracking the egg on a flat surface prevents the cracking shell from inverting into the egg and possible transfer germs from the exterior of the shell into the egg. That is why the other common method is cracking an egg by using an other egg.
This is awesome, in my bar as I am alone all the time serving 150 - 200 cocktails for 5-6hours, plus selling wines, champagnes, beers etc. I do mostly do shortcut on preparing that drink, otherwise I would be on big shit for having a delayed drinks. This is my most favorite show on RUclips, Excellent job.. Cheers
I work in a cocktail bar in Oslo, Norway. Just a quick comment on the clunkiness of picking the ice out of the tin/using a big rock for easy extraction. The way I do the reverse dry shake is to first shake all the cocktail ingredients, except the egg white, with ice. Then I strain from the big tin into the small tin with a Hawthorne strainer and a fine strainer. Throw the ice from the big tin in the sink and then add the egg white to the cocktail and do the final shake. This also makes it possible to do an open pour into your glass. Pretty quick and easy technique when you get used to it.
I really like these videos! I'm learning a lot! In the cocktail codex book, using the example of a pisco sour, they recommend to dry shake but also double strain. I think that the improvement that you saw in this experiment is not due to the reverse shake but it is due to the double straining. For part 3, maybe you could do dry shake vs. Reverse dry shake both with double straining :)
I double strain all my sours buuut I think after two reverse dry Shake vids we need a break. I know my arms do! But if I do another one this might be a good thing to test for sure!
I believe the first might be a lighter color shade because of the the fact you had more power to your first shake compared to your last ones. The more vigorous shakes equate to just the slightest more water diluted in. But even the slightest water added to such a small volume will change it drastically! ... also the reason the foam looked darker to your cinematographer on your is because your liquid was lighter haha. GREAT CHANNEL THOUGH MAN! I’m a bartender in Houston, Tx and love the channel. Keep it up!
I've been using the "regular" dry shake method since I first learned of it. Although this was fun and interesting to watch it reaffirms to me there is no reason to change.
When you do the regular dry shake the egg white stays with the ingredients of the cocktail for 50 second's on the other hand when you do the reverse it stays only for 30 so maybe that's the case for the color difference and maybe there is a difference in the flavour ass well
This was an enjoyable 30 min and an interesting experiment. How were your arms after this? I agree that the extra step is great at home, but if I was in a bust bar. Not a chance.
Before even watching this video, I’m just gonna say I trust you so much that whatever you say is the best shake at the end is the one I’ll always do moving forward!
man his faces while shaking are just the best, they are the reason I keep coming back :P Love all the videos guys, thanks for everything and helping us home bartenders out.
what ive started doing is just taking 2-3 small ice cubes and shaking till they have melted out completely and then i dry shake it. When im at work though i will shake with a full tin and then strain it back into the small tin. Also, i think it should be double strained and you need to make sure that your pouring everything out of the tin because the foam comes out last.
Seeing this kind of video, I would be interest to see a video where you compare making a sour with egg white vs. aquafaba (liquid or powdered...). Love the channel and really got me interested in making cocktails at home over the past year. Will keep an eye out for the two bottles I purchased on your website to appear in a video.
Pretty cool you've reacted to the comments that quickly!! Personally I hate ice shards in sours - therefore double straining is key for me. I usually fine strain the reverse dry shake while removing the ice before the dry shake. That way you actually somehow save that "extra step" (as the last pour is then done within a second). I like the result of your last drink, though... will try it that way next time ;)
Great lesson in how to thoroughly tire yourself out! Your smile, Leandro, told it all on the second one! I look forward to seeing the shake speed at the end. Nick from York
Really great to see you going back and doing this follow up taking advice from the comments. Not sure I agree that the reverse dry shake takes any more time than the dry shake, but I agree that the difference is small at best either way. I'd love to see a future episode where you try a whip shake.
Love this! Pretty thorough. I think the only way to have kept the egg white consistent between cocktails is to have cracked all the egg whites into a container and very lightly mixed them before measuring it out between cocktails. Not sure where else that discoloration would come from!
Forgive me if someone already pointed this out, but I wonder if the reason the first drink ("original" dry shake) ended up cloudy was the fact that the egg was shaken in the acidic solution at a warmer temperature. Acid can chemically "cook" the proteins in the egg white and this effect can be affected by temperature. Perhaps the resulting agitation with the ice cube broke loose more of those cooked proteins, which were then held in suspension after pouring. The other drinks had the egg shaken at a colder temperature, which would result in less "cooked" effect.
All this plus what about the amount of egg white used for each of the cocktails? Maybe it was greater than in the rest? Should have measured the egg whites :\ One more test ?...just kiddin' :D
About the color difference. Maybe increased protein oxidation due to the longer egg shake. The color reminded me of hazy IPAs with oxidation problems which can turn a brownish-grey color. That said, love the channel, love the episode, keep up the great work.
What a nice video! Very useful! I think also it would be very interesting to talk about making batches in cocktails like measurements and tips, again thanks for the video!
FYI From a chef who has been influenced and hopefully influences here and there, we crack eggs on different surfaces for different reasons. 🥚 We know what we can get away with when cracking. I ♥️ this episode. 💪
My immediate thought is that if the cocktail shaker wasnt pre-chilled when you shook the first one, that would cause slightly more ice melt, and result in a slightly lighter color. The rest would be the same color, as the shaker was chilled from each previous pour.
I add everything including ice at the beginning like a normal drink and the dif is so minimal that I never bother dry shaking. I do shake longer with this one and done technique. I’ve tested this numerous times. I use a Hawthorn strainer.
You know those paint mixing machines you get at DIY stores - would you be able to use a similar smaller machine to shake your drinks to maintain a consistent timing and action that would enable you to properly scientifically compare and contrast?
My whisky sour is getting better and better thanks to you. I just did 1 with my new WIld Turkey 101. Really amazing. The Strainer is really making the difference. I dont know why i always felt I shouldn't strain in order not to break foam but it is actually the opposite. #teameggfirst
I don't know why you always felt that either, considering every book out there by anybody credible calls for a double strain, and the information has been available for decades. Probably because you're as ignorant and lazy as the dude in the video?
Great video!!!! The whole colour thing is throwing me off still. The only thing I can think of would be to consider if any yolk got in there. Perhaps this got by you without being noticed, but if you look again at the 6:05 mark, it almost appears that the yolk splits. Any chance this could be it? Thoughts?
Man, I was so impressed that you hit 30 seconds on the dot and then you had to say that Marius was giving you cues. As someone who makes drinks at home, I use the reverse dry shake because it eliminates the problem of a leaky tin. Did Mr. Black release new flavors? I see a red label and an artsy label in the background there.
Yes, in limited supplies. They have their new Single Origin series and they also have an Amaro, which is only produced in small batches and might launch in the US soon.
Interesting videos. Thanks for making them! From now on, I will fine strain my reverse dry shaken cocktails ;) I have one argument for the reverse shake that I am not sure you discussed*: - I find it easier to get a good seal on the shaker** when doing the reverse dry shake*** It has happened to me multiple times that pressure builds up during (normal) dry shaking, resulting in me spilling parts of the precious cocktail on my kitchen/living room floor... Now, I'm just an amateur enthusiast that enjoy making cocktails at home, but at least for me this makes me prefer the reverse dry shake. ... and the extra time/effort is minimal when using the method Roger Hansen mentions in his comment :) I would love to hear your thoughts about this! Notes: *: I've only seen start and conclusion of the video at the moment, will watch the rest later. **: Without banging them HARD together, making it impossible to detach the parts ***: Since getting a good seal on the already cold cocktail is a lot easier for me :)
Yeah at the risk of sounding a little arrogant. Exploding tins do to The pressure buildup in the tin is due to improperly sealed tins. Has happened to everyone although once you learn to properly seal your tins it will never happen again. So it’s a flaw in technique not an inevitable consequence if you’re doing it right, therefore it’s not a factor in the vids
@@freepour, thanks for the reply :) Haha, sure, fair enough it's likely my technique, but that still makes this a relevant concern for us amateurs. With my shakers (even the cobbler), I have to close the lid so hard that I struggle opening them again if I am to avoid the liquid explosion. Maybe you can make a short "crash course video" in the future? Until then: Whether it is my technique or my equipment, it makes the reverse dry shake a nice "hack" for me :)
About the egg cracking, in the UK their eggs are not processed as they are in the US and therefore retain the thin outer membrane of the egg. This membrane helps keep the porous eggshell protected from contaminants and results in an egg that doesn't require refrigeration for a comparable shelf life. One downside is that the eggs are not cleaned as well as US eggs and the prospect of contamination during the break or onto another prep surface is much greater as feces is more likely to be retained on this membrane. Cracking on an angled surface may push the potentially contaminated outer membrane into contact with the egg innards more so than a crack on a flat surface. That said, when separating eggs using the shells the surface contamination is probably unavoidable, which might make it an unsafe method for those using eggs that haven't been sanitized with a detergent as US eggs are. This is all narrow theory though, there are many factors for how salmonella arises such as feed and care of the livestock, delivery time, etc. What's important is knowing what preparations are safe for your particular area and system.
I am a flat cracker because I eat a lot of fried and overeasy eggs and preserving the egg yolk whole is the most important thing there. I do it because there it is almost impossible to break the yolk or put shards of it into the egg unless you smash the egg against said hard surface. Cracking on the side of bowl or cup just adds odds to accidentally cracking too hard. Just more to pay attention to, especially if you are going to be cracking a lot of eggs.
As someone with opinions, I respect that people have these intense opinions for the reverse dry shake but I already find the regular dry shake to be more than sufficiently foamy. I tend to only use half an egg white for a single cocktail.
My guess is the color difference is because more of the whites are incorporated into the non-foam part of your regular dry shake. In a regular dry shake, the egg white interacts directly with the undiluted acid of the lemon juice, whereas in a reverse dry shake the acidity has been cut down by dilution, so the egg whites never encounter as high a concentration of acid.
I second this! I was going to comment this, but decided tho scroll and read first. My evidence for this is there was less foam left in the room on this cocktail than all the others, which means it probably incorporated more.
Now I'm wondering: Would you also get (too) fluffy foam with the normal shake if you don't use the Hawthorne strainer -- just take the ice out and pour the cocktail directly into the glass?
The difference seems small enough that even in a home bar i am not sure I'd see it as worth the extra step. Fishing out a ice cube seems like a bit of a pain.
Easy solution is just to grab a hawthorne strainer and pour the contents in one tin and dump the ice. Reverse dry shake helps eliminate possibility of a leaky tin that you get sometimes with a regular shake.
I think the first drink is paler because when you dry shake first, you foam that egg white a little bit already, which means that when you shake it again a bit of white foam mixes in the drink and therefore makes it paler and more white.
That must have taken it out of you , I'm not the fittest person in the world I still feel the burn after a shake , well done great vid , like yourself I'm all about the flavour to many steps complicate the enjoyment of of a hobby
Ok so maybe I’m wrong, but isn’t the color variation of the first one due to the egg white being in contact with the entire drink longer? In the same way you clarify a Consomé, or how the milk clarifies a milk washed cocktail? The proteins bind to impurities in the drink (or broth) and take on the color of them.
For a whisky sour it doesn't really matter actually. What I have been taught was reverse dry shake will make the shaking time much less than a normal dry shake for the same amount of foam, like it saves time for a drink such as Ramos gin fizz
The problem with the reverse dry shake is that it totally kills the texture of the actual cocktail underneath the foam. There’s a great article on dry shake vs reverse dry shake on Punch Magazine’s website I believe.
Let's say I agree with all that, the thing is most of bars use regular ice , if you stain that after reverse dry shake you going to loose a lot quantity of the foam . Cause the ice you threw kept a lot foam with them .
Is it possible the tin had differenttemperature? I've found that to some extent, the temperature of the shaker can affect the foam. A slightly chilled shaker makes a more dense foam for me. I suppose that may be consistent with chilling a mixing bowl prior to whipping egg whites for meringue ? In addition this would also result in slightly less dilution resulting in w color difference?
Is there a reason you just use a whole egg white instead of measuring it? I usually separate a few eggs and measure an ounce of egg white per cocktail to be more consistent
i guess the good thing about a regular reverse dry shake is that you dont end up with any chips of ice if you dont own a fine mesh strainer, might be better if you do it when you are first starting out and maybe you dont have all the tools
First one had egg for both shakes, 4 & 5 that were a hair darker had the egg in just for the dry shake. Could that be the culprit for the color disparity?
What I don't get, though, is why is Leandro picking the ice out with tongs? Couldn't he just use the Hawthorne strainer, discard the ice, then dry shake?
You could get something like trader joe egg whites in a carton, to make the egg white portion of the test more consistent. Not sure its worth another video, but thought it might be worth sharing.
What about a silver lined shaker? According to the manufacturer, the silver acts as a catalyst and you don't need to dry shake at all, any thoughts on or experience with this?
Here's the thing about "stable" foam though: you are essentially getting closer and closer to a merengue. So... do you want a merengue on top of your cocktail? Not necessarily (in most cases probably not, though it could be a fun effect *sometimes*). I for one have *absolutely* have egg white foam on top of a cocktail that is *too* "stable"/firm in that it interferes with the experience of the drink, sticks to the side, and essentially acts *separate* from the rest of the drink rather than as a part of it. So reverse dry shake with straining might get firmer foam, but is it a more pleasant *cocktail experience*? Subjective. Oh dear, all tests are now invalid? 😆 No, seriously, this was great. Thanks for all the hard work! I only have one remaining question... When are you going to test bottled egg white vs. fresh and realize that bottled is just as good and WAY easier, especially for making 5 whiskey sours in a row? ;-)
@@freepour Not sure I agree. What matters is the experience when considering the texture. And, as I said, I've had egg white cocktails (both in bars and ones I've made at home) where the egg white foam is *too* stiff and detracts from the experience, or at least the experience I prefer to have. It's like any other component of a drink: the difference between X % stiffness and Y % stiffness may only be a few percentage points, or whatever, but then the difference between light and moderate dilution (e.g. what you get with different kinds of ice or different amounts) is also "small" in measurable (i.e. fluid volume) terms, but can notably affect the experience for the drinker. It is, of course, the combination of doing many subtly differentiable things precisely and well that ultimately creates a great overall experience. Get any one of them slightly wrong and the drink is still good, but the experience suffers. No? Anyway, I think we can at least agree that there *would* be a point where there is too much stiffness in the foam on an egg white drink, right? And if that's the case then it's only a question of whether the reverse dry shake gets too close to that point and whether the regular dry shake is a better balance (I think it is).
I feel like you needed another Ramos Gin Fizz-style collab video with five bartenders to save your arms. Haha. Also, I saw a very opaque white piece of egg white from the first egg. The rest of the egg whites were all yellowish only. Maybe that explains the paleness compared to the others.
Great test. What would be nice would be to just do a normal shake as a comparison as well. Don't want you to destroy your hands from all that shaking though 😋
I’ve done it several times over the course of my years behind the bar. I only shot it as an episode once. Not sure that doing it again Would have a different takeaway or new revelations About the effectiveness of a reverse dry shake. Seems to me that this idea has permeated the popular culture in Cocktail circles and no amount of proof contrary to the popular belief is going to make much difference no matter what the result is
We needed a post credits scene of you chugging all 5 drinks
I didn't see that one coming! Loved it. Now go do some legs to balance this training up ;)
Lmao!! I love this comment.
If nothing else, the reverse dry shake holds the tin together better because the liquid is cold while you're dry shaking the egg white. That in itself is worth it for me.
I don't think it holds the tin together better. The reason there's a seal is because of the contraction of the metal due to the temperature change. Although, the liquid and tin are cold during the second shaking, there's no temperature modification hence no contraction.
@@TitiPapillon The cold liquid cools the room temperature air inside the shaker and contracts the volume of the air. I've tried dry shaking first and the tin does not stay together without help, but the reverse dry shake stays together just fine.
@@drsrwise, you're right, the metal tins both cool down at the same rate, it should not change a thing on the sealing. Sorry for my previous message!
At home I shake all dry shake cocktails in a Parisian shaker. I don’t get the problem of the liquid exploding all over me because of the tighter seal. I assume a cobbler shaker would yield similar results but then idk what the strainer in it with those huge holes would do to the foam.
11:15 To use regular ice instead of a single big cube, instead of picking cube per cube you can just use the Hawthorne to strain the cocktail from one tin (with the ice) into the other (with no ice), discard the ice, add the egg white and shake. Or you can just not bother and do a regular dry shake...
The big cube is really the better technique if you can help it tho
@@freepour Well, if you can't get or make big ice, regular ice with one of Dave Arnold's polymer cubes will fix the aeration problem.
@@freepour In my experience, the lack of readily available good big cube ice is a big part of the reason for doing a reverse dry shake. I make good clear cube ice for drinks that I want to serve on a big block of ice, but there is no way I'm going to "waste" my good ice just shaking a drink I'm going to have served up. I just don't have the time + space in my freezer for that to be viable as a home bartender.
Therefore I shake my cocktails with freezer ice. Freezer ice is pretty horrible for shaking though. It chips and cracks in the tin. A normal dry shake technique leaves me with zero foam because it all gets caught up in the ice "sludge" left behind by the sub-standard ice.
A reverse dry shake has totally fixed this problem for me. I can chill and dilute my drink. Set it in my chilled coup, removing the bad ice by using a fine mesh strainer. Rince the tin, then dry shake with the egg white. This way the ice doesn't get in the way of my foam. It's definitely more steps/more work than I'd like. But since I'm only making drinks for me, and the alternative is no foam at all, it is more than worth it for me.
@@TheSuperLee1 This is exactly the same reason why I reverse dry shake. The place I used to work used pretty low quality ice (uneven in size, not hard, chipped a bunch), so when I did a normal dry shake, there wasn't enough foam even after shaking really hard for a long time.
Also we had to double strain (hawthorne and fine mesh) all egg white cocktails and the mesh strainers were crap and always blocked some foam, so the lackluster amount of foam from the normal dry shake became even less. The reverse dry shake was just so much more consistent in quantity and quality was the same b/c we used strainers.
Guess it mostly boils down to ice quality and the strainers.
I really appreciate you listening to the comments and doing a revised test, 29 minutes long and making 5 drinks. Setting a high bar for RUclips. No pun intended haha.
My pendantic comment for the day:
An additional variable is the consistency of energy with which each drink was shaken. To make it truly adhere to scientific methods, a non-tiring shaking system is needed. 🤓
Okay, I’ll show myself out.
❤️
28:15 is basically how I feel about anyone trying to sell me on reverse dry shaking vs regular dry shake
I’m so glad you did this! I was just having a very long conversation with a friend tonight on exactly this topic. I’ve gone through phases of reverse shake vs traditional dry shake, including adding a wire ball mixer to the tin. Single strain vs. double strain, etc. I’ve found that for me, a traditional dry shake first, then with ice, then double strain is the best balance of presentation AND effort. Also, fresh eggs is very important!
This is an awesome video! I'm a science guy, so this is just me exploring how I'd run a follow up experiment: First, due to the results of your experiment, I would only need to look at regular dry and double strained reverse. Second, I would pre-mix the egg whites so it's all homogenous and differences in eggs can't affect the outcome. Third, I'd run each "set" by making one version, immediately doing a bitters test after pouring (and foam has settled enough), and then would repeat for the other version, and I would run three of these sets. Finally, I'd make the two versions in glasses labeled "A" and "B", and then I'd give them to someone who doesn't know which is which, and is instructed specifically to judge the foam quality. (Also, I would definitely use a cheaper whiskey for these experiments.)
Love this comment! I gotta say I was wondering what a more rigorous experiment would look like. Also gotta say I'd be using at most a twenty dollar bottle for something like this 🥃
People complain about foam on beer? In Germany you complain, if there's no foam on the beer.
That’s because you guys know what you’re doing ;)
I have never heard about anyone complaining about foam in their beer. Everyone but an unknowledgeable twit knows you need some head. I haven’t met one of those people.
@@mrsmartypants_1 I was once the kind of person who thought beer should have little to no foam. I was under that false impression because when I was first drinking I was under age being taught to drink by another under age drinker. It wasn’t until I was of legal age and had been for awhile that I learned that foam was important to have.
@@AlmightBlingo Gotcha. Understandable. I grew up in a state where beer was life itself and kids went to the bars with their parents. The drinking age was 18 but almost anyone 16 and over would get served 😂
There should always be a head, the problem is when someone who doesn't know how to pour gives you a glass where half the beer is foam.
Good that you did a second video n the topic, cracking the egg on a flat surface prevents the cracking shell from inverting into the egg and possible transfer germs from the exterior of the shell into the egg. That is why the other common method is cracking an egg by using an other egg.
This is awesome, in my bar as I am alone all the time serving 150 - 200 cocktails for 5-6hours, plus selling wines, champagnes, beers etc. I do mostly do shortcut on preparing that drink, otherwise I would be on big shit for having a delayed drinks. This is my most favorite show on RUclips, Excellent job.. Cheers
I work in a cocktail bar in Oslo, Norway. Just a quick comment on the clunkiness of picking the ice out of the tin/using a big rock for easy extraction. The way I do the reverse dry shake is to first shake all the cocktail ingredients, except the egg white, with ice. Then I strain from the big tin into the small tin with a Hawthorne strainer and a fine strainer. Throw the ice from the big tin in the sink and then add the egg white to the cocktail and do the final shake. This also makes it possible to do an open pour into your glass. Pretty quick and easy technique when you get used to it.
Sounds like a lot of steps, but yeah I guess you could just strain it off :)
i find the foam from the open poor really unappealing after watching the video
I really like these videos! I'm learning a lot! In the cocktail codex book, using the example of a pisco sour, they recommend to dry shake but also double strain. I think that the improvement that you saw in this experiment is not due to the reverse shake but it is due to the double straining. For part 3, maybe you could do dry shake vs. Reverse dry shake both with double straining :)
I double strain all my sours buuut I think after two reverse dry Shake vids we need a break. I know my arms do! But if I do another one this might be a good thing to test for sure!
I believe the first might be a lighter color shade because of the the fact you had more power to your first shake compared to your last ones. The more vigorous shakes equate to just the slightest more water diluted in. But even the slightest water added to such a small volume will change it drastically! ... also the reason the foam looked darker to your cinematographer on your is because your liquid was lighter haha. GREAT CHANNEL THOUGH MAN! I’m a bartender in Houston, Tx and love the channel. Keep it up!
I've been using the "regular" dry shake method since I first learned of it. Although this was fun and interesting to watch it reaffirms to me there is no reason to change.
When you do the regular dry shake the egg white stays with the ingredients of the cocktail for 50 second's on the other hand when you do the reverse it stays only for 30 so maybe that's the case for the color difference and maybe there is a difference in the flavour ass well
This was an enjoyable 30 min and an interesting experiment. How were your arms after this? I agree that the extra step is great at home, but if I was in a bust bar. Not a chance.
Before even watching this video, I’m just gonna say I trust you so much that whatever you say is the best shake at the end is the one I’ll always do moving forward!
man his faces while shaking are just the best, they are the reason I keep coming back :P Love all the videos guys, thanks for everything and helping us home bartenders out.
what ive started doing is just taking 2-3 small ice cubes and shaking till they have melted out completely and then i dry shake it. When im at work though i will shake with a full tin and then strain it back into the small tin. Also, i think it should be double strained and you need to make sure that your pouring everything out of the tin because the foam comes out last.
Seeing this kind of video, I would be interest to see a video where you compare making a sour with egg white vs. aquafaba (liquid or powdered...). Love the channel and really got me interested in making cocktails at home over the past year. Will keep an eye out for the two bottles I purchased on your website to appear in a video.
I'm loving this series, guys. Keep it up!
BTW: Missed opportunity for a joke about "but shouldn't we roll our lemons?"
Pretty cool you've reacted to the comments that quickly!! Personally I hate ice shards in sours - therefore double straining is key for me. I usually fine strain the reverse dry shake while removing the ice before the dry shake. That way you actually somehow save that "extra step" (as the last pour is then done within a second). I like the result of your last drink, though... will try it that way next time ;)
That’s exactly how I do my reverse dry shake as well!
Great lesson in how to thoroughly tire yourself out! Your smile, Leandro, told it all on the second one!
I look forward to seeing the shake speed at the end.
Nick from York
Really great to see you going back and doing this follow up taking advice from the comments. Not sure I agree that the reverse dry shake takes any more time than the dry shake, but I agree that the difference is small at best either way. I'd love to see a future episode where you try a whip shake.
Great episode! I for one am most satisfied by your scientific approach in this one, good on ya :D looking forward to the next drink myth test
Love this! Pretty thorough. I think the only way to have kept the egg white consistent between cocktails is to have cracked all the egg whites into a container and very lightly mixed them before measuring it out between cocktails. Not sure where else that discoloration would come from!
It’s gotta be variation in the egg...
What a workout! Can’t wait to see what you do for leg day.
Forgive me if someone already pointed this out, but I wonder if the reason the first drink ("original" dry shake) ended up cloudy was the fact that the egg was shaken in the acidic solution at a warmer temperature. Acid can chemically "cook" the proteins in the egg white and this effect can be affected by temperature. Perhaps the resulting agitation with the ice cube broke loose more of those cooked proteins, which were then held in suspension after pouring. The other drinks had the egg shaken at a colder temperature, which would result in less "cooked" effect.
All this plus what about the amount of egg white used for each of the cocktails? Maybe it was greater than in the rest? Should have measured the egg whites :\ One more test ?...just kiddin' :D
Another pro for the reverse dry shake method
About the color difference. Maybe increased protein oxidation due to the longer egg shake. The color reminded me of hazy IPAs with oxidation problems which can turn a brownish-grey color. That said, love the channel, love the episode, keep up the great work.
Great video Leandro. I've been using ½oz of egg white instead of a whole egg white. Dry shake double strain. The foam is incredible.
Steve???
@@margefoyle6796 this isn't Steve the bartender?
@@anthonymanzalji No, this is Leandro in front of the camera and Marius behind the camera from The Educated Barfly.
@@margefoyle6796 "educated" by the youtube comments.
What a nice video! Very useful! I think also it would be very interesting to talk about making batches in cocktails like measurements and tips, again thanks for the video!
nice, im a home bartender and this kind of makes me want to reverse dry shake. do something with that overproof rum behind you!!
FYI From a chef who has been influenced and hopefully influences here and there, we crack eggs on different surfaces for different reasons. 🥚 We know what we can get away with when cracking. I ♥️ this episode. 💪
My immediate thought is that if the cocktail shaker wasnt pre-chilled when you shook the first one, that would cause slightly more ice melt, and result in a slightly lighter color. The rest would be the same color, as the shaker was chilled from each previous pour.
🤔
I add everything including ice at the beginning like a normal drink and the dif is so minimal that I never bother dry shaking. I do shake longer with this one and done technique. I’ve tested this numerous times. I use a Hawthorn strainer.
Amazing that you did this! I'm only left wondering if the most stable foam is what you want for a whiskey sour.
Do aquafaba vs egg white! Also shake the two at the same time, one in each hand, to avoid time variables
The sacrifices You need to do for complainers! Great video anyhow.👌
You know those paint mixing machines you get at DIY stores - would you be able to use a similar smaller machine to shake your drinks to maintain a consistent timing and action that would enable you to properly scientifically compare and contrast?
My whisky sour is getting better and better thanks to you. I just did 1 with my new WIld Turkey 101. Really amazing. The Strainer is really making the difference. I dont know why i always felt I shouldn't strain in order not to break foam but it is actually the opposite. #teameggfirst
I don't know why you always felt that either, considering every book out there by anybody credible calls for a double strain, and the information has been available for decades. Probably because you're as ignorant and lazy as the dude in the video?
Great video!!!! The whole colour thing is throwing me off still. The only thing I can think of would be to consider if any yolk got in there. Perhaps this got by you without being noticed, but if you look again at the 6:05 mark, it almost appears that the yolk splits. Any chance this could be it? Thoughts?
Man, I was so impressed that you hit 30 seconds on the dot and then you had to say that Marius was giving you cues.
As someone who makes drinks at home, I use the reverse dry shake because it eliminates the problem of a leaky tin.
Did Mr. Black release new flavors? I see a red label and an artsy label in the background there.
Yes, in limited supplies. They have their new Single Origin series and they also have an Amaro, which is only produced in small batches and might launch in the US soon.
Interesting videos. Thanks for making them! From now on, I will fine strain my reverse dry shaken cocktails ;)
I have one argument for the reverse shake that I am not sure you discussed*:
- I find it easier to get a good seal on the shaker** when doing the reverse dry shake***
It has happened to me multiple times that pressure builds up during (normal) dry shaking, resulting in me spilling parts of the precious cocktail on my kitchen/living room floor...
Now, I'm just an amateur enthusiast that enjoy making cocktails at home, but at least for me this makes me prefer the reverse dry shake.
... and the extra time/effort is minimal when using the method Roger Hansen mentions in his comment :)
I would love to hear your thoughts about this!
Notes:
*: I've only seen start and conclusion of the video at the moment, will watch the rest later.
**: Without banging them HARD together, making it impossible to detach the parts
***: Since getting a good seal on the already cold cocktail is a lot easier for me :)
Yeah at the risk of sounding a little arrogant. Exploding tins do to The pressure buildup in the tin is due to improperly sealed tins. Has happened to everyone although once you learn to properly seal your tins it will never happen again. So it’s a flaw in technique not an inevitable consequence if you’re doing it right, therefore it’s not a factor in the vids
@@freepour, thanks for the reply :)
Haha, sure, fair enough it's likely my technique, but that still makes this a relevant concern for us amateurs.
With my shakers (even the cobbler), I have to close the lid so hard that I struggle opening them again if I am to avoid the liquid explosion.
Maybe you can make a short "crash course video" in the future?
Until then: Whether it is my technique or my equipment, it makes the reverse dry shake a nice "hack" for me :)
About the egg cracking, in the UK their eggs are not processed as they are in the US and therefore retain the thin outer membrane of the egg. This membrane helps keep the porous eggshell protected from contaminants and results in an egg that doesn't require refrigeration for a comparable shelf life. One downside is that the eggs are not cleaned as well as US eggs and the prospect of contamination during the break or onto another prep surface is much greater as feces is more likely to be retained on this membrane. Cracking on an angled surface may push the potentially contaminated outer membrane into contact with the egg innards more so than a crack on a flat surface. That said, when separating eggs using the shells the surface contamination is probably unavoidable, which might make it an unsafe method for those using eggs that haven't been sanitized with a detergent as US eggs are. This is all narrow theory though, there are many factors for how salmonella arises such as feed and care of the livestock, delivery time, etc. What's important is knowing what preparations are safe for your particular area and system.
I am a flat cracker because I eat a lot of fried and overeasy eggs and preserving the egg yolk whole is the most important thing there. I do it because there it is almost impossible to break the yolk or put shards of it into the egg unless you smash the egg against said hard surface. Cracking on the side of bowl or cup just adds odds to accidentally cracking too hard. Just more to pay attention to, especially if you are going to be cracking a lot of eggs.
What’s that bottle of mr black with the orange label ?🤔
All 5 techniques are completed at 21:16 if you just want to skip to Leandro's assessment.
As someone with opinions, I respect that people have these intense opinions for the reverse dry shake but I already find the regular dry shake to be more than sufficiently foamy. I tend to only use half an egg white for a single cocktail.
I agree. The difference isn’t enough for me to justify the extra step. But it was fun testing it :)
My guess is the color difference is because more of the whites are incorporated into the non-foam part of your regular dry shake. In a regular dry shake, the egg white interacts directly with the undiluted acid of the lemon juice, whereas in a reverse dry shake the acidity has been cut down by dilution, so the egg whites never encounter as high a concentration of acid.
I second this! I was going to comment this, but decided tho scroll and read first. My evidence for this is there was less foam left in the room on this cocktail than all the others, which means it probably incorporated more.
You could control the egg whites by prepping them ahead of time, and just measuring the egg white when you put it in.
Probably contributing significantly to the variation.
I liked this video, Leandro. So not 100% a waste of time ;)
Now I'm wondering: Would you also get (too) fluffy foam with the normal shake if you don't use the Hawthorne strainer -- just take the ice out and pour the cocktail directly into the glass?
The difference seems small enough that even in a home bar i am not sure I'd see it as worth the extra step. Fishing out a ice cube seems like a bit of a pain.
Easy solution is just to grab a hawthorne strainer and pour the contents in one tin and dump the ice. Reverse dry shake helps eliminate possibility of a leaky tin that you get sometimes with a regular shake.
Could an argument not be made for a more stable foam be the increased ease to carry them on a tray to the table by waiters and bar staff?
I think the first drink is paler because when you dry shake first, you foam that egg white a little bit already, which means that when you shake it again a bit of white foam mixes in the drink and therefore makes it paler and more white.
Another great video!
That must have taken it out of you , I'm not the fittest person in the world I still feel the burn after a shake , well done great vid , like yourself I'm all about the flavour to many steps complicate the enjoyment of of a hobby
Ok so maybe I’m wrong, but isn’t the color variation of the first one due to the egg white being in contact with the entire drink longer? In the same way you clarify a Consomé, or how the milk clarifies a milk washed cocktail? The proteins bind to impurities in the drink (or broth) and take on the color of them.
For a whisky sour it doesn't really matter actually. What I have been taught was reverse dry shake will make the shaking time much less than a normal dry shake for the same amount of foam, like it saves time for a drink such as Ramos gin fizz
Shaking for longer than 12 seconds has very literal effect - per Dave Arnold
Love the open mind expansion feel to this entire event....Skoal!
The problem with the reverse dry shake is that it totally kills the texture of the actual cocktail underneath the foam. There’s a great article on dry shake vs reverse dry shake on Punch Magazine’s website I believe.
Let's say I agree with all that, the thing is most of bars use regular ice , if you stain that after reverse dry shake you going to loose a lot quantity of the foam . Cause the ice you threw kept a lot foam with them .
So let me get this straight. It's still an important factor to put the eggs in after the ice in the reverse dry-shake if you're straining?
Not sure what you mean
Is it possible the tin had differenttemperature? I've found that to some extent, the temperature of the shaker can affect the foam. A slightly chilled shaker makes a more dense foam for me. I suppose that may be consistent with chilling a mixing bowl prior to whipping egg whites for meringue ?
In addition this would also result in slightly less dilution resulting in w color difference?
Not likely the tins were different temps they were both in the exact same place
12.51 the moment that you knock wood stuff. Why did you do that?
I believe that is one of Old Turkish Traditions.
BTW probably interesting alternative try japanese style. That metod uses spring of hawthorn stainer.
Knock on Wood is a pretty common superstition in probably most western cultures. It might have originated with the Celts.
Is there a reason you just use a whole egg white instead of measuring it? I usually separate a few eggs and measure an ounce of egg white per cocktail to be more consistent
i guess the good thing about a regular reverse dry shake is that you dont end up with any chips of ice if you dont own a fine mesh strainer, might be better if you do it when you are first starting out and maybe you dont have all the tools
First one had egg for both shakes, 4 & 5 that were a hair darker had the egg in just for the dry shake. Could that be the culprit for the color disparity?
It’s possible for sure. It has to be the egg that caused the disparity
I’d like to see the regular shake through the double strain.
If you want to see that shake check the whiskey sour episode on Educated Barfly I always double strain my sours :)
@@freepour yes, but I think we need a side by side comparison and as a bonus it’ll help you get your shaking stamina back 😬
This was really interesting.
Now do the test with a Ramos 💪🏻
I didn't even notice that the first time but yeah I always put the egg in after shaking with ice
What I don't get, though, is why is Leandro picking the ice out with tongs? Couldn't he just use the Hawthorne strainer, discard the ice, then dry shake?
Which shaker tin in your Amazon store is that one that you’re using for this video?
If you want to do the reverse dry shake and don't have large ice cubes, just strain to the small tin and dump the ice.
You could, but the big rock is the better technique if you can help it.
I never bother with dry shaking when I make egg white cocktails at home. It just seems like an unnecessary delay to getting the drink in my belly.
You could get something like trader joe egg whites in a carton, to make the egg white portion of the test more consistent. Not sure its worth another video, but thought it might be worth sharing.
we know Kevin Kos tested it on his. We might take a look at it, but we do prefer fresh
Fantastic thumbnail man, cracked me the f up
What about a silver lined shaker? According to the manufacturer, the silver acts as a catalyst and you don't need to dry shake at all, any thoughts on or experience with this?
Which manufacturer is this?
@@freepour
Soy Türkiye. Beautiful looking stuff.
Have you ever tried to recreate the Sambucca Milkshake from "The Adventures of Ford Fairlane"?
When I do the reverse dry shake, I feel that the cocktail turns out slightly less cold. Or is that just me?
Here's the thing about "stable" foam though: you are essentially getting closer and closer to a merengue. So... do you want a merengue on top of your cocktail? Not necessarily (in most cases probably not, though it could be a fun effect *sometimes*). I for one have *absolutely* have egg white foam on top of a cocktail that is *too* "stable"/firm in that it interferes with the experience of the drink, sticks to the side, and essentially acts *separate* from the rest of the drink rather than as a part of it. So reverse dry shake with straining might get firmer foam, but is it a more pleasant *cocktail experience*? Subjective. Oh dear, all tests are now invalid? 😆
No, seriously, this was great. Thanks for all the hard work! I only have one remaining question...
When are you going to test bottled egg white vs. fresh and realize that bottled is just as good and WAY easier, especially for making 5 whiskey sours in a row? ;-)
Yeah but you aren’t getting close enough to have it really matter
@@freepour Not sure I agree. What matters is the experience when considering the texture. And, as I said, I've had egg white cocktails (both in bars and ones I've made at home) where the egg white foam is *too* stiff and detracts from the experience, or at least the experience I prefer to have.
It's like any other component of a drink: the difference between X % stiffness and Y % stiffness may only be a few percentage points, or whatever, but then the difference between light and moderate dilution (e.g. what you get with different kinds of ice or different amounts) is also "small" in measurable (i.e. fluid volume) terms, but can notably affect the experience for the drinker.
It is, of course, the combination of doing many subtly differentiable things precisely and well that ultimately creates a great overall experience. Get any one of them slightly wrong and the drink is still good, but the experience suffers. No?
Anyway, I think we can at least agree that there *would* be a point where there is too much stiffness in the foam on an egg white drink, right? And if that's the case then it's only a question of whether the reverse dry shake gets too close to that point and whether the regular dry shake is a better balance (I think it is).
I feel like you needed another Ramos Gin Fizz-style collab video with five bartenders to save your arms. Haha.
Also, I saw a very opaque white piece of egg white from the first egg. The rest of the egg whites were all yellowish only. Maybe that explains the paleness compared to the others.
The method I prefer is dry shake just the lemon and egg, then add whiskey and simple!
As a Belgian i love a nice foam on my beer, I don't really care for the non-frothy flat beer xD
If you're listening to comments and trying to improve your test, is it really pseudoscience?
Maybe the pale tone is due to the lemon, it that was freshlier squeezed in the regular dry shake. The older driks are paler than the consequent.
“Welcome to Barfly Freepour. I made this video out of spite.” 😂😂
I care about the quality of the foam far more than the quantity.
I paused the video after the 3rd drink to give your arms a break
Great test. What would be nice would be to just do a normal shake as a comparison as well. Don't want you to destroy your hands from all that shaking though 😋
Maybe you should do this again just for confirmation?
I’ve done it several times over the course of my years behind the bar. I only shot it as an episode once. Not sure that doing it again Would have a different takeaway or new revelations About the effectiveness of a reverse dry shake. Seems to me that this idea has permeated the popular culture in Cocktail circles and no amount of proof contrary to the popular belief is going to make much difference no matter what the result is
Its a good thing you tested it with a whiskey sour. Think if you made a Ramos Sour? You'll need new arms
I like this better than your reg channel .....
Did you drink all of those?
🤔
Definitely paler from egg white remaining in the drink instead of totally separating into the foam.
I don’t think it’s “lighter” but more opaque. It’s causing sub-surface scattering, where the others are clearer.
Agree!
What about Jeffrey Morganthaler's blender method?
It’s a good one
Emulsion. The dry shake emulsifies the egg white proteins into the cocktail more than the other methods.
Now try the reverse shake with the no-egg options for sours
😂
@@freepour Please make a Reverse Dry Shake series 😂😂😂