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The 1987 INDY MYSTERY
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- Опубликовано: 19 янв 2015
- / super100mph
The 71st Indianapolis 500 was held Sunday May 24, 1987 at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. During the month of May, an unusually high 25 crashes occurred during practice and qualifying, with one driver in particular, Jim Crawford, suffering serious leg injuries. This was dubbed 'The Indy Mystery'. Drivers interviewed include: Tom Sneva, Kevin Cogan, Geoff Brabham, Danny Sullivan, Michael Andretti and Mario Andretti.
For all our US viewers.
en.wikipedia.or...
en.wikipedia.or...
www.indianapoli...
www.audioblocks... for music.
All credit to Channel 7 Sport, Sydney.
Motor sport is an international language.
May, 1987: "It's been a bad month"
.....
May, 1992: "Hold my beer"
The 1992 race was the coldest weather of any Indy 550 to this day. When they were under yellow, the oil and gearbox fluids would go too cold, and made cars malfunction.
I worked on Dale Coyne's Indy cars from '84 to '96. The 87 March just got funny in the corners. Some teams machined new wishbone pick up points to slightly change the geometry, many very sharp minds attempted to rectify the problem or problems. Even March was baffled by this handling issue. It was scary that year, just hoping no one was badly hurt. That terrible sound of those beautiful cars with drivers hitting the wall that hard was unforgettable.Lola was the next car of choice after all of the problems that plagued March, that was the beginning of the Lola dominance. Only the Penske cars could beat them at that time.
Cheers from Downunder!
Wendy Barnes It's negative wheel influence redirecting the cars, the negative wheel systems and connections have Great leverage. If the car doesn't slide , the negative wheel circulation redirects with Great bite .. 😐. Like a bowling ball , tennis serve baseball pitch basketball dribble etc. They'll never get it ... uh uh Gumby don't turn like those guys try to , uh uh ...
nosjunkie2 what are you going on about? That's the goofy-est thing I've read on RUclips.
It started out so good and then... what.
TommyMacDaddy1 you know how gumby turns , backspin
I miss the time when the month of May was actually a month of racing instead of 2 weekends and a race.
I hesitate to tell you what 2020 is going to look like in your future....
@@theMoerster how’s about 2021?🤣
I'm not saying it was aliens, but it was aliens.
They're probably right in saying that it was the combination of the March chassis and the Goodyear tyres not working together. Whether that was due to the new tyres being pushed into use before the chassis manufacturers had had enough testing and development time to make everything work together or whether it was because March chose to run an evolution of the previous chassis rather than a new one is unclear, so maybe the ultimate blame should lay with the governing officials for not holding back on the introduction of the new tyres until the chassis development work was complete or for not taking steps against the March chassis when it became clear that it did not work with the new tyres. Unfortunately, as has occurred too many times in US motor racing the officials did not act due to commercial and legal concerns and it was the drivers that paid...
@ 3:00 Goodyear blaming someone else. Continues today in NASCAR.
jim jones nascar and Goodyear have and never been a good mix.Goodyear builds racing tires!!
jim jones Pirrelli does the same in F1.
jim jones Only the truly elite driver would understand . The amount of crashes and low info race drivers ( yes even the "greats") indicates to me the cars and tires were EXCELLENT that year ! Negative wheel systems would have worked flawlessly ☺
Jonathan Bell Excuse the pun, but racing tyre building is a black art, with less scientific compound building and more alchemical mysticism. And they must have got something wrong.
Brandon Kilian There aren't any Goodyear class leading passenger car tires anymore, I agree.
George Michael narration, legendary sports caster from DC
He was the best there was at what he did. None like him before, none like him now!
“A sleek machine reduced to rubble!” You have to love inane commentators like this.
That was the year the Mini Indy 500 Radio Control 1/8 Scale race was held in a oval at the exit of Turn 4 in late April. Plenty of fuel (nitromethane and oil) was put down on that end of the speedway.
It was probably mostly the change to radial tires.
Being a Mario fan, '87 was the most disappointing race of all time. He absolutely dominated that race.
There is no real mystery if you understand the differences between how a bias-ply tire performs compared to a radial tire and Goodyear still has not figured it out today. Without going into deep technical detail a bias-ply tire compared to a radial tire is far more predictable than a radial tire when it comes to loss of traction (Spin-out, skid) in a corner. In other words it will let the driver know that you are on the edge of spinning out on the other had with the radial tire you drive into a corner and it feels like you have tons of grip in the corner until you don't (as a buddy once said about racing on radials "no squeal, no feel until the car snaps loose and you are into the wall. Radial are great on tire wear compared to bias-ply tires and as a rule you can push then a lot harder but they have all the feel of oven mitts.
Good point. The greatest setup in the world doesn't mean anything if the tires aren't great as well.
Makes sense
Sean MacDonald, No rebound in as if a bias ply was overinflated. Underinflate a radial tire to get rebound like a bias ply, and uncontrollable unsprug weight at high speeds sends handling characteristics to hell when "the dent pops back out", or the tread was a harder compound though it tested the same as the compound to use. Those tires were rubber dipped cola cans!
I was only a few rows back from that fan in the stands, Lyle Kurtenbach who was killed by the tire that rocketed into the stands. That was an awful day.
A buddy and I was at that race too sitting in the short chute between 1 and 2. We had no idea that a spectator had been killed until we got home late that night and heard it on the news. Indy's a huge place as you know, and it's hard to keep up with everything going on. Plus, back in '87 we didn't have all the communication devices we have today. I'm sure that visual will last with you your entire life, sadly.
@Adolf Hitler I understand your bitterness. You're like the boy named Sue on steroids. Otherwise, if you are the real Hilter, RIT (Rest In Torment).
How could you have been a few rows back from Lyle when it's fully documented that he was in the top row when he was struck?
@@scottmaxwell8578 I think I meant to say he was a few rows back. The tire definitely went over our heads.
@@CitizenCarry I was a bit stunned that one of the Indy papers printed a picture of the incident. It seemed unnecessary. I probably would've been frightened into leaving if I had been close to it like you were. But then sometimes we never really know how we'll react until that something actually happens.
Well said Sean MacDonald-but,out here where I live, we have an abundance of gravel and crowned blacktop roads. They just gobble up radial tires fast. And it doesn't matter what brand you buy.
Radial tires by their nature grip better but tend to lose traction within a smaller space of time then bias ply...I suspect that along with the March suspension geometry and down force is what they were dealing with. I am sure it was a product of all three (a Ph.D. Engineer who works for a large American defense contractor's Aero company...my first year out of undergrad Engineering College was '87)
Kevin Cogan crashes were no mystery. According to Foyt and Andretti...
+Nick Richard Thanks Nick.
+Nick Richard You mean Cooogan, right?
Cogan and Guerrero were the two worst Indy drivers ever.
+brandon darnell maybe if you add the word successful to that statement. Or at least mildly successful. Even then I don't agree.
Nick Richard
I think those cars were bottomed out. There is always secretive clicky crap started in the garage area. Some teams will completely revamp the set up in a secretive but out in the open type situation to have other teams freak and follow suit without even trying a known start set up. but what do I know?
Makes sense
Lucky to be born on the same month and year. Didn't know there were lots of carnage 87 indy 500
They were wearing the wrong kind of socks.
Gee, incredible fucking mystery. And here I am, still wondering what happened to the sandwich I left in the fridge.
It's no mystery. It's a very dangerous track
Got caught with our trousers down. Pancho & Danny damn near paid with their lives, 87 was rough...
It's a dangerous and badly designed track that will claim more lives
@@default123default2 Not in the new aeroscreen era. No more fatalities
@@taskforceknight9336 That's hopefully true. I'm a huge supporter of halo in F1 and windscreen. Dan Weldon would have lived with either system. So would the driver killed in the Toronto CART crash in the 90's
I identified the problem. They drove into the wall. Dont do that and youll be fine.
You're a fucking riot, aren't you?
Brilliant.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mario had the 1987 race in the bag; such a shame the car broke.
Report was that it was unusually cold that day, and the less experienced drivers couldn't cope.
Seems like the first place to look would be either the tires or the track. The next place to look would be the chassis rules.
When they show the month of May calendar you can see towards top that it spells "WTF" in capital letters.. A coincidence? I think not!
'87 was the beginning of the end for March Engineering. They only won because Mario broke and never won another 500.
Ongais got away with some ridiculous crashes didn't he?
At Indianapolis of all places. He was lucky to have sprung back from that other accident with the Interscope (Cosworth) in 1981... much less still be alive...
Wish that announcer could work just a tiny bit of wide-eyed, over-the-top melodrama into his voice!
Amazing how these guys actually answered questions from reporters, unlike today where they only have the same patter about winning, what it takes to win and not losing. Everything is entertainment now, just scripted and political.
And if anyone knows anything about a car doing something unexpected, its Kevin Cooooogan.
I notice all the incidents happened coming out of turn 4. If you dont ENTER that turn correctly, there is nothing you can do, you hit the wall. allways.every year. Now something was wrong in the setup that year, could be tires
but that turn is always a bear!
Could’ve been unpredictable chassis flex but most likely tires.
Jay Levine it’s oddly different than it’s turn 2 counterpoint
What is weird too is how those cars back then were going over 200 mph, but would be extremely uncompetitive today if someone tried to race one at Indy.
Why feature Danny Sullivans 1985 Miller American car from 1985 in a show about 1987? The Miller car was gold in 1986 on
Go figure a tire company blaming someone else still going on today Firestone, Goodyear never their fault at least when you buy cheap tires you know what you're getting, but these guys are top shelf and you expect quality
Looks like they turned right when all they have to do is turn left...
why is RUclips recommending stuff from 1988?
icedink87 Because it’s a mystery!
I think not enough downforce small front wings. Making the cars lift up or lose control
I'm thinking the tires were the problem.
Looks like the side pods had lift resulting in the car pushing. As soon as the one flips in the short shoot he lifts off the ground going forward and sideways not backwards lol.
I would’ve gone home
This, Announcer really, Uses, Tons and Tons, of Commas, in his Transcripts, They Must have, Had, to call, in a specialist, to be sure , that he, wasn't having, a stroke, but it, was just, Gas, XD.
Funny you should mention that, he does have a very William Shatner way of speaking. I also noticed that the machine was "Reduced to rubble" (1:30) which would of course be impossible, unless the machine was made of stone, brick or concrete. Reducing the wall to rubble yes. Sorry... English guy with OCD here. Fascinating video all the same... Science and Courage Balanced right on the edge. I hope everybody got to walk away. If you also found his commentary funny then I can Highly Recommend you spend some time YouTubing 'Alan Partridge sports commentary'. Englands finest. 🏆🇬🇧
@@nigelcarren
The announcer is Al Trautwig. ABC was using him on a lot of sports at the time, but he wasn't really a racing guy, so he was probably reading a script. I'm not sure exactly what his main sport was, because they featured him on all kinds of sports, mostly Olympic type sports like skiing or figure skating. In more recent years, he was off the national networks and for years has been a New York area announcer on the Madison Square Garden network, doing hockey & basketball, but not as a game announcer. More a presenter at the beginning and end of broadcasts and doing interviews between periods.
@@RRaquello Thank you Raquello. We are indeed divided by a common language! (I think that is the expression?) 🤔🇬🇧🏆🇺🇸
Anyway, it is a joy to listen yo. Best wishes from a French forest.
Also a spectator was killed when a tire flew into the stands, first spectator fatality since 1938.
sad that they make no mention of that here
TyV Vulpintaur I was there when that happened. It was scary. We weren't that far from where the tire went over the fence.
Happened in Michigan too. 1998 CART race.
I was sitting directly across from where the tire flew after bouncing off R.Guereros nose . We were sitting in the new terrace seating at entrance to pit road in the infield. I was 16 yrs old . we had to walk by those grandstands on the way out. I remember more than i wish to. 😥
Can you believe we live in the year of 2017?? Awesome!
Did they really race with threaded tires, and not slicks?
Bet it was shit tires. Or old tires that sat in hot warehouse. Looks exactly like unpredictable grip loss from old tires.
The tires weren't old-they introduced the radials that year, and unless they stored them in Guatemala, they hadn't been in "a hot warehouse" when they rolled them out in early May..
And any racing tire will look like shit if it's not matched to the chassis
1:17
Subscribed. :)
hmmm. 1:40 I don't remember such poorly fitting sunglasses the norm. maybe it was
Tires. It's always tires.
2021 here. I am just not a fan of this race track. Everyone knows what the problem is but we can't say that now can we..
Ok, I'll bite - what is the problem with the track?
@ 3:30 "Indy-cation" 😉 Nice!
That Radial tire thing does hold true. I put Bias ply tires on my 1978 Mercury Grand Marquis which was a radial tuned suspension. After getting a little speed, say 40mph, the car started going all over the place all on it's own. The Bias ply tires came off. Radials back on and no wandering around. Today's cars are even worse about it.
IS GHOST CURVE BAD
I could have solved that problem back in '87; too fast on cornering. Am I right or am I right?
This pales in comparison to the mystery of how the hell did Danny Ongias not die in a race car. I mean.....how?
Yeah-he was fast, but set new records for being "jeopardy friendly".
Probably the biggest thing that saved him was that he was racing in the 1980s and not the 1970s
Mystery solved it was a ghost car!
mike carr it’s Indy no dega
at 1:34 .......Is it me or does Danny Sullivan look like Jerry Seinfeld?
GOST IN CURVE
Is the George Michael narrating?
The Sports Machine!!!!
Back when Indy car racing was fun to watch, a lot of talented drivers.
I couldn't name a current Indy car driver today off the top of my head.
capnrob97 Really???
Bring back CART, even since Indy cars fell under IRL rule they have pretty much sucked.
maybe you're just getting old
I can name one Scott Dixon and I’m not even a Indy car fan I am more of a NASCAR guy
I can't name one myself. I kinda got out of racing. I used to know everyone in indy, nascar, and topfuel drag. I remember when the first 300mph and 4sec 1/4's were done
I think it was the for shit Goodyear Tires. And 30 years later they are still making the same for shit tires!
how's the car lifting off from a sideways skid 2:42 - aerodynamic problem alright
Because any race car with a flat bottom, when sideways, has potential of producing lift if the suspension unsettles and enough air flows under the car to do so. Add the reduction/exit of a banked turn into the formula and it becomes very easy. Race cars aren't designed to produce negative lift when traveling sideways.
yeah understand, like a leaf blower picks up a leaf at that speed, but modern Indycars and F1s are designed NOT lift off in exactly these type of situations (I think they have call em 'dome skids' in Indy as they are more susceptible to this on ovals). I'm thinking higher centre of gravity in these old cars also plays a factor. Just the ease with which is just takes off is very eye opening to me.
It's actually because of ground-effects. The tunnels beneath the car create a lot of downforce, just like inverted plane wings. But if you take an airplane and try to fly it vertically up, or fly it too slow, it stalls and begins to fall. Same with those cars: a spin disrupts the airflow beneath the car, stalling the ground-effect wings, and lifting it off.
Going by the looks of the track coming in to that corner well the corner looks to be to flat and not cambered enough.. I think
holy fucking shit...
Tires
Is that George Michael from Sports Machine narrating?
I think so!
Yes it is. RIP George.
No mystery here. look at the ground clearance of the side pods. all the air getting under the car when it's sideways has the lift the car over.
unable to FLY ON YHE TRACK.
Too bad we only get 80 years to drive and practice and learn and PERFECT our technique .. 30,000 days, 720,000 hours. I'm 51 for a moment , I liked being a man, I can drive like nobody you've ever seen
Tom Sheva looks like Gilbert Gottfried the comedian.
"Sunday Spin" ??
Downforce is the problem duh!!!!!
WHY IS HE YELLING?
weird crashed, like the crash with M schumacher.
i think it was in silverstone that Schumacher had no breaks for some reason.
I still don't think Al Unser Sr won that race. I was there, and I suspect a timing and scoring error. I think Jim Crawford won that race. I was sitting between turns 3 and 4, and never saw Big Al pass anybody all day.
Jay Tweedy Didn't Crawford get injured in practice?
I'm now seeing that your comment was probably sarcasm (facepalm)
Jim Crawford didn't race in '87. He was injured during his qualifying attempt. You are probably thinking of someone else although I'm not sure who that would be. I was not there but also question timing and scoring. Al Sr. was so slow that it literally only took Mario a handful of laps to put Al Sr. a lap down. I remember seeing that during the broadcast and did the math in my head ... and conservatively calculated that Al Sr. would be 10 laps down at the finish at that rate.
needed down fourse on the front
Of corce
to hard of a compound in the tires and not enough front end downforce
Kind of a "nothing" video.
Ha heee heee heeeeee!!!
Too fast? Just saying.
Actually, top speeds were down slightly over '86. It really was primarily a combination of the radial tires (which teams and drivers hadn't fully adjusted to) and some sort of stability issue with the March cars. Computer simulations (if they were done at all) were incredibly primitive compared to what we have today, and race teams sometimes still get caught out by something the sims didn't pickup.
Another major factor in the problems the teams had in both 1987 and '88 was the hot and dry weather they had both years. In addition to the problems the teams had with the radial tires not matching up with the March chassis, the weather man didn't give them much of a break, either, because not only was it hot most of the month of May, but it also never rained. And rain serves to wash the oil, grease, and rubber off the track, and the combination of a mismatched tire-chassis combination and hot and dry weather that resulted in a slippery track caused all the chaos. (An aging track surface didn't help matters, either.) And the chaos that happened during the month of May in '87 (the race itself was relatively accident-free) repeated itself on race day in '88 for the same reasons. Lasting hot and dry conditions that resulted in the oil, grease, and rubber not being washed off the track.
mystery solved in 2017: it was defective covfrere.
Covfefe...At least spell it right if you're going to be a smart arse . : )
Interlink Plus spelling covfefe wrong.... ... he must be on some meta level of unconsciousness. 😂
30 years he's been waiting for this moment, and he fucks up the spelling 😂
lol to all of you
😂... I forgot I could use emojis... Pretend that is on the end of my last comment.
Geraldo Rivera narrating?
Sounds like George Michael of 'The George Michael Sports Machine' to me.
It certainly is. Grew up watching him every night on WRC-4 in DC. I remember when the Sports Machine started, then became syndicated. It started as a local show.
God rest his soul; loved The Sports Machine...
Brett Rose Loved him and the Sports Machine. Also he had fun as a frequent guest on the Don & Mike show
I didn't think Careless Whisper would be a hit but i was wrong
What a waste of a video,,,no mystery at all.
How the US pronounces "chassis" just makes me cringe
MJA how the US thinks the indy 500 is the greatest motor race in the world makes me cringe. In fact how the US thinks America is the world makes me cringe. Lol baseball world series and the only country that enters is America.
Simon Fordham. And Canada
PaintHerWhite even still, that's the world right?
+Simon Fordham if we called it the world series of stick ball would you understand and come compete? lol
Chris Morse it's funny you should say that, there's a game over here that's been around for centuries and it's very similar to baseball, it's called rounders. In fact it's so similar that the Base principle of the game and some of the rules are exactly the same. Yet we don't have a world championship for it, because it's mostly played in weird church and primary schools. The answer to your question is irrelevant, the fact that the US calls it a world series when only 2 or 3 countries play it is what's stupid. At best it's a continental cup. America is not the world. Therefore how can the indy 500 be the greatest race in the world, if only a portion is watching it?
'87 was the beginning of the end for March Engineering. They only won because Mario broke and never won another 500.