I was there in 67, my first Indy and that car had the field covered so bad it wasn't funny. He led the first lap and never looked back. My buddy and I left thinking he would win going away and we were shocked to hear he broke and coasted down pit road with 7.5 miles to go. We were nearly out of the infield when he broke. You could not hear him coming and had to watch the track to catch him going by, what a sight it was to watch that car, I loved it!! Whoosh and he was gone by you, so cool!!! I still love those turbine cars!!
I was in the Navy back then and my buddy and I had the weekend off, so we went to Indy for the race. That car is in the Indy museum, go check it out if you can!!!@@dallisb1047
I worked at a shop in Santa Monica near the Paxton Products/STP plant where this car was built. I did a lot of work installing 260 Ford V-8 into a small Mercedes van that was to be the pit bus for the turbine car team. Andy Granitelli gave me a $100 tip for that work. Great memories.....
Seventh Mist sounds alot like Nascar Adjust the rules cause someone smart might get an advantage Stifle progress and people go elsewhere. I was there in 68. The wedge was not the same car.
Did it with the turbine. Did it with the Wankel. Did it with Diesel. Because the Dinosaurs making the rules hate progress. I swear, if reciprocating steam engines could maintain that kind of velocity they would ban the Gasoline Piston engine altogether.
That's not it at all though. All of the other race teams would just adopt whatever the fastest technology was. They could beat them no problems. The question was, do you want to have a turbine racing series, or a petrol racing series?
I saw the race live on “closed circuit TV” at the Santa Monica Civic. Parnelli was always my hero and I couldn’t have been more disappointed. This year was going to be my first in person 500 until COVID-19 hit. It’s 1967 all over again!
Same with the CVT gearbox with Williams FW15C. It could have led to more efficient road cars, but instead, without racing to help people understand the CVT, manufacturers made CVTs act like a regular automatic, making the CVT useless, since the CVT is designed to have an infinite number of speeds, not a discrete number of set speeds. There are countless other examples in motorsport. Like Audi in the Trans-Am and later the IMSA series. 4-wheel-drive was banned from both after Audi cleaned up the championship. Its stupid how innovation is banned in the very sport where it should be celebrated.
This was back in the day when carmakers were still allowed to create and experiment with new ideas. Racing has become so homogenized that it's just one big bore.
I wonder if car racing conducts steroid/enhancement testing on its drivers like they do to bicyclists? It almost seems that's the only thing left to complete the restrictions.
Parnelli had a valid point: "No one in USAC ever asked me one question about my experience in the car." Even the owner of the winning car admitted that the improvements were due more to the 4 wheel drive and not the power plant. It took years and some new blood, but USAC got kicked out of Indy. It was way over due. Re-airing of past Indy 500 races get bigger audiences than the live, new races get. What does that say?
...and we STILL don't have AWD in race cars (not even E-racers), even though we have them on the street....I DO NOT GET THAT. Give me an LMP1 Porsche 919 Evo...or the newest Ferrari SF90 Stradale!
@@videojockeysword All wheel drive is a killer in a street race because of the dust on the pavement. The guy with the 10 second Tesla would take their money every week. At the track, he was just average. Oh, and lastly: The all wheel drive Audi at Pikes Peak. It owned that race as did the 4wd Celica by Rod Millen. It stood for 14 years.
@@videojockeysword The United States Auto Club (USAC) the governing body for the IndyCar series banned AWD shortly after this. AWD was tried in other road racing classes without success. The handling advantage was offset by the weight and power loss.
That people love exciting new ideas, ingenuity, and variety. They also love it better when more people have a fighting chance to join in and race without the backing of one or more mega corporations. Spot on Sir.
was in turn 3 waiting on the car to finish, then the fire went out. I thought it was quiet when it was running, seemed even more silent when Mario coasted by and lost..@@kevinrich9471
Yeah, those were the days when ABC taped the race and showed it in prime time the same day. So you had to avoid any sports news all day! That could never be done today!
The chassis was designed by an aircraft engineer named Ken Wallis. I’d dearly love to go over that chassis with a fine tooth and comb. The thing looks incredible!
@ not u - Talking about Draymond Green? video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=yset_widemail_chr_win&p=Drayvon+Green+kick#action=view&id=2&vid=fd881b184fa4c03ca467daeb090adb77
Thank goodness you posted this. I was only 2 years old when it happened but by the time I was 8 I had read everything I could find about it. Just... wow. And then the Lotus the next year also should have won. For shame neither one did but what a history. Look at those helmet and such.... wow . Safety, what? Just get in and git er done! Not quite as bad as the '50's but almost.
At the end of the 1967 season, STP Corp fought with the USAC Rules Committee regarding the banning of turbine engines. The result was that the rules were changed to reduce the turbine's power output by restricting the engine's "air intake", thereby allowing less oxygen in the combustion chamber, resulting in less power. The area for air intake was reduced from 21.9 to 15.9 sq., or about 27% less. So, for 1968, STP commissioned Lotus Cars to design a new, super light weight, 4 wheel drive chassis, while Pratt & Whitney reworked the restricted turbine engine to develop as much power as possible, even though it reduced reliability. The performance of the 1968 Lotus Turbines at the 500 and other races on the USAC Trail was revealing. The cars were usually fast, but never won a race due to chronic reliability problems. In spite of this, at the end of the 1968 season, USAC banned turbine engines, and 4 wheel drive, ending the potential of developing this combination into a winning effort.
Yup yup I followed the Trail and found that. Thanks for the reminders... I had known all of this as a child but forgot. The other sad days in racing included the Gruppe B tragedy and Michele Mouton's car fading so she didn't win the Championship. She was a bad Mo-Fo. There's a cool Audi ad with her and her daughter. ruclips.net/video/za8wchEkfFA/видео.html
Wow, the old piston engine makers were so scared they ran it off the track, sabotaged, and banned it ! In front of everybody, and nobody protested(except the team and Gordon Cooper)
It's all fun and games until the same car wins every race, then it's business not engineering. Google - Mosler Consulier It's problem - too fast because it was a lot lighter.
I was there in 1967 in turn four when it came coasting by...I was so disappointed it lost. He made it look so easy. It was so quiet as it passed by....great memories. :-)
Andy Granatelli was abiding by the rules as they were at the time. He even mentioned that his innovation would not have been significantly restricted, then banned, had the car not performed as well as it did. Indy has hosted many cars that were peculiar to the pack, but the turbine is one of the few that really shook up the competition and began the trend of narrowing the parameters on vehicle design to what we deal with today; uniformity.
As an helicopter turbine engine mechanic... I am not surprised the turbine engine was banned. Racing piston engines are heavy and require top fuel to operate above specs to gain the required hp (in my view, that's cheating). Turbine engines, on the other hand run on at the very least... kerosene... or jp fuel, neither of which are designer fuels and much cheaper than top fuel. The turbine engine is light yet produces much more hp than an piston engine of the same weight. Light, very high torque and very high hp. Yep, not surprised it was banned. Ban that which is a real work of art. Go figure!
Had Indy not band the Turbine engine racing in the Indy 500 would have been change for ever and the common car on the roads of the USA may have seen the death or at least a down turn in the piston engine use to day. Afew years in past I saw a show were a small Turbine engine was use in Ford Taurus along with Genrator and getting 100 MPH the Germany auto maker Mercedes was so impress with the data they sent car for testing with the new turbine/Genrator system to be install and testing. Many had the Ideal that Indy told the team leader to pull his car or he and his team would never race any more but the owner said that was not true and the bearing in the transmission that failed. One thing was for sure the Turbine engine ate the lunch of ever engine builder in the world and made it only a race for 2 postion and back after he pass all the cars no one could come even close to him. Thanks for posting for this was-war in the days of real racing not to say the drivers or cars of to day are not on top or state of the art but in to days world of top race teams It takes real money to win and a few years in the past a driver/owner was doing a good job and his engine came from a bus and the talk of how well he was doing in the race.
Turbine engines are only really ideal for this kind of relatively constant speed racing. They would certainly never replace piston engines on the street (unless as a generator only in some kind of hybrid) because they are not responsive enough to throttling.
It's a turboshaft engine, aircraft use turboprop, turbojet, or turbofan engines. A turbocharger has both a turbine and a compressor, the only difference is the manner in which the fuel is combusted. Turbo is more correct in this instance than your colloquial use of "turbo" to describe an accessory on a reciprocating or rotary engine.
I was 12 yrs old and listening to the broadcast scrubbing the bottom of the family pool. I remember how disappointed I was with him not finishing the race.
Chrysler did produce a few concept cars with the turbine but it would’ve been far too expensive to mass-produce. Check out Jay Leno’s Garage, he did a piece on those cars.
USAC didn't necessarily make the decision to ban the turbine, they caved to pressure from Ford Motor Company. Ford had too much money invested to let the some upstart like Andy Granatelli and his turbine steal their thunder. It's sad, I wasn't there in 1967, but I was in 1968. The wedge turbines were amazing to see AND hear.
I belive so. It would mean a change to the whole industry and billions of r&d change of setup in the factories, to get the capability of producing turbine engines. They oppose wildly and desperatly any change that treathens their already working scheme. Look at the history of the electric car too - now finally after they held it back for 100 years +
Kim Harbison I have a Ford fan all my life, but I agree with you that FoMoCo must have seen the investment in their four-cam about to be eclipsed by the turbines, and put the squeeze on USAC. Ford was no longer afraid of Drake’s Offy, but Pratt & Whitney was another story.
What memories, I was 11 years old, out at the lake camping with family, had a portable radio, tin cans and foil to pick up the race , I got the station yelling, uncle Don uncle Don I got the Indy, those offys were running great, could not hear the turbine car, great play by play, never forget Diamond Lake Oregon, the fishing and Indy.
Rain came along and stopped the race that day, the race was finished the next day. Along with the turbine engine, the car had innovative all wheel drive too. Parnellie could drive any groove he wanted with that car. We were in the fourth turn vista for the race that year. Very disappointed when the gear box failed.
My dad was there he told me it was a beautiful car. My dad was a Big time Jones fan along with Foyt. Bittersweet he said when the Wooosh mobile failed on a 6 dollar bearing and opened the door for AJ Foyt to the victory.
my friends and i would gather around his 25" tv to watch the race we were11 at the time the day before we would have our 50 lap bike race around the block after we raced our hot wheels sizzler 500 race man i wanna be a nerdy kid again of corse we were the first to have the model of the stp turbin car my buddy sent his to granatelli and mario andetti autographed the box for him
The 60's were the glory years at Indy. So much innovation. Builders tried all sorts of things. Made it interesting to watch. Same with NASCAR, when the factories came up with the Super Bird and the Ford 427 "cammer" . Yeah it's pretty unwatchable these days.
Alot of print ads featured this car. Even STP decals were around with this,( rare) Graneteli was a great spokesperson for the brand. The other engine ban came yrs later w Penske' stock block Mercedes that Emerson drove ( dominated the field) back in the 80's. ( eng. Displacement dispute)
WAS AN INCREDIBLE CAR. WOULD HAVE DOMINATED IF THEY WEREN'T OUTLAWED. GRANATELLI WAS A GREAT RACE CAR BUILDER. I REMEMBER THE INDY RACE. THE CARS WERE AS SMOOTH AS SILK
I had a step father who drove the Turbine McLaren. Said it ran great but sucked up all the debris on the track, and roasted radiators of close following cars. His normal tracks were SCCA and NASCAR. Drove a '67 Shelby GT 350 at Daytona.
I was a teenager when it ran and it really ran off with the race was watching it on TV in Corydon IN my father was a aircraft engineer and said this will be the future ! but as most people think it was banned because every other team would have to spend millions just to keep up with it ! I always wondered if Chrysler had put the turbine car in full production if NASCAR would have been forced to allow it ??
I remember this car and STP. It was something new and different. This might NOT sit well with some people..... Some people must have their way or they will have a fit, like a toddler. Childish....!!!!! A beautiful car...!!!!!
I'm still pissed off at USAC's decision to kill the turbine engine by excessively limiting the intake air to the engine. I still haven't heard a good reason why the decision was made. Damn politics.
Was Chevy running an engine at the time? Around this time NHRA & NASCAR we're factoring and otherwise limiting Chrysler and Ford because of the 426 Hemi and 427 boss and cammer engines. Chevy had a hand in ALL of that. Never understood why they wouldn't just step up their engines? God knows the BBChevy could have competed to to toe with some help.
@silverbird58 an other great in the racing field is Andy Granatelli his ideas were cutting edge as well / they are taken for granted / the squeaky wheel and all that
Turbine engines are very expensive and not very economical for a street car .. Ford had a couple about 1964 or so . It could melt the grill of the car behind it at a red light that is if any even had a plastic grill in 1964..
Sad thing is that there was a real chance there to improve the breed, or at least create a turbine formula that could provide exciting and fast racing that teams could actually afford and give good competition, unlike the hideously expensive drivetrains that would come. I'd love to see a race series now with, say, a sealed and approved 1-200K reliable helicopter turbine that everyone could run and use their budgets on chassi/tire/etc tech and transportinstead of worrying about ten million dollar engines.
Actually The U.S Auto club backed off of the ban. In 1968 there were 3 turbine powered cars entered by Andy Granatelli and STP. Two of them qualified on the front row. Of the 3 two broke and one crashed. They were built by Lotus and were faster than the piston-engine cars. USAC reduced the air intake on the turbines but they were still fast with one of them leading late in the race when it broke. After the 68 race the rules were changed again to further reduce the air intake. The engine was basically killed by the rules
What I remember most about the STP Turbine powered race cars, Is; there were 2 second generation STP Turbine cars. And Mario Andretti Was the driver of the #1 car. And in a single race he crashed his #1 car. Then Mario relived/took the #2 car from the assigned driver. And promptly crashed it into "Whoosh" the original STP Turbine powered race car. That was also on the track during that race. There by destroying all; 3 of the STP Turbine powered race cars in one single race. And that was basically the end of the STP Turbine powered race cars.
I'm not saying it was wrong or bad. If anything I'm very impressed with the innovation with this car. Yet I am glad racing has stuck with regular engines. Nothing beats the sound of say a v10 f1 car flying by.
Seeing the turbine car amongst the ICE cars and the ease with which it devoured them was akin to a MiG-15 joining a gaggle of P51 Mustangs and Thunderbolts. I say MiG because the competitors saw him more of a foe than a friend.
Saw him race the turbine at the Milwaukee Mile, had the same outcome. Leading near the end of the race and the car quit on him. I'm sure if there were 2 turbine cars running at the same time or they switched drivers. Joe Leonard was the other driver.
To get the rest of the story Read "They call me Mister 500" by Andy Granatelli. The turbine car came back with a new design for three other turbine cars.
The high school I went to in the 1960's had a big car culture which was divided into two camps, Ford and Chevy. One thing they agreed on was their dislike of a turbine car and the thought of a turbine car at the Indy 500 was sacrilege. If it wasn't piston powered it was worthless. I myself like the idea of a turbine car.
It was later revealed that reason for the bearing failure--the transmission input-shaft bearing--was due to the design of the mating between the engine and the transmission didn't incorporate a bellhousing, which anyone whom built cars woth manual transmissions for use in performance or severe-duty arenas could tell you would've maintained a proper alignment of the transmission input-shaft... which if not done would profoundly effect (shorten) the life of all components involved. Also, I believe that like when a 1st-gen Chrysler Hemi was built and tested for proposal of use in IndyCar racing, the turbine-powered racer was quashed due to vested interest. I've seen it in IndyCar, Formula-1 and in NASCAR: Anything that gives a clear, fault-free advantage that also advances the sport technologically gets fought against, then disallowed--one way or another!😡
Yep. My father entered an upgraded electric Zagato Elcar in the local SCCA competition in 1976 and was doing well, but he stopped to back up off a cone. Those in charge changed the rules to exclude electrics before the next meet.
In the early 2000's, there was a retired machinist who hung out at Moose #500. Racers congregate. He was concerned about cooling that bearing. Requested to put an oil lubricating port to it. He was denied. He was not a BS'er. He knew his stuff.
People always talk about things they would change if they could go back in time, myself I would make sure this car won that race then I would go to 1987 & make sure Mario's car didn't fail him.
Actually there was a significant chance of having a turbine car at Indy in 1964. The legendary Smokey Yunick designed an Indy racer from the ground up with the fuel, engine, and drive train in a central body and the driver hanging in a pod between the left side wheels. This is commonly known as the "Capsule Car". His first choice for an engine was a turbine and the car was designed with this in mind - three years before the first Granatelli/STP turbine car. Unfortunately the financial deal with the turbine supplier didn't work out so the car eventually ended up being powered by the venerable 4 cylinder Offenhauser engine. Also unfortunately the car hit the wall during its qualifying attempt on the last day of qualifying and there was insufficient time to repair the damage before the end of qualifying so it never competed in the race.
Hey, back then at Indianapolis you spelled God with the letters STP and Andy Granatelli was like Casey Stengel so his crews would gladly do anything for him
We would have had turbine cars on the road & with the invention of the reduction geared turbine blades as opposed to the hot section on the turbofans, which creates more power & less fuel consumption, turboprop engines would have been in all automotive vehicles from heavy trucks & heavy equipment, the turbine car that Chrysler made would have been mass produced. The world is controlled through the 1% circle & they do it through ordo ab chao, basicly the world is ran on fear tactics, through greed. That's why nothing last, & they do not build things to last for the wage slaves. Sad world we live in.
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I was there as well. Remembering Jim Hertibese driving the last front engine Offy to ever make it's way around the track.
I was there in 67, my first Indy and that car had the field covered so bad it wasn't funny. He led the first lap and never looked back. My buddy and I left thinking he would win going away and we were shocked to hear he broke and coasted down pit road with 7.5 miles to go. We were nearly out of the infield when he broke. You could not hear him coming and had to watch the track to catch him going by, what a sight it was to watch that car, I loved it!! Whoosh and he was gone by you, so cool!!! I still love those turbine cars!!
I was born that May. Wish that I had been old enough to watch the STP Turbine car race 🏁!
I was in the Navy back then and my buddy and I had the weekend off, so we went to Indy for the race. That car is in the Indy museum, go check it out if you can!!!@@dallisb1047
Randy Weeks didn’t the Turbine again the next year I thought there were 3 I thought Graham Hill and Art Pollard drove the
@@steveoppy9216 Yep. Joe Leonard was on the pole with one of them. They weren't as dominant in 68 because they'd been limited.
I worked at a shop in Santa Monica near the Paxton Products/STP plant where this car was built. I did a lot of work installing 260 Ford V-8 into a small Mercedes van that was to be the pit bus for the turbine car team. Andy Granitelli gave me a $100 tip for that work. Great memories.....
The sad old mantra: If you can't beat 'em, ban 'em.
Seventh Mist sounds alot like Nascar
Adjust the rules cause someone smart might get an advantage
Stifle progress and people go elsewhere. I was there in 68. The wedge was not the same car.
Did it with the turbine.
Did it with the Wankel.
Did it with Diesel.
Because the Dinosaurs making the rules hate progress. I swear, if reciprocating steam engines could maintain that kind of velocity they would ban the Gasoline Piston engine altogether.
Did it with Alex Jones.
That's not it at all though. All of the other race teams would just adopt whatever the fastest technology was. They could beat them no problems.
The question was, do you want to have a turbine racing series, or a petrol racing series?
What's truly miserable about the mantra is this- The Democrats operate by it to this day, as if it were Holy Writ or Divine Utterance.
Listened on the radio to this race with my Dad. Broke my 16 yr old heart when that car went out of the race😕
Robert Thompson I was 13
I was 20. My dad and I watched it together. Very disappointed in result.
Radio memories are more intense than TV! Lol
me & my friend were glued to th TV for that race
I saw the race live on “closed circuit TV” at the Santa Monica Civic. Parnelli was always my hero and I couldn’t have been more disappointed. This year was going to be my first in person 500 until COVID-19 hit. It’s 1967 all over again!
The car's AWD had as much to do with its dominance as did the Turbine engine.
Probably, but I suspect the chassis design also played a large role.
There’s been other 4wd entries over the years
I was there. I also remember the ban on automatic transmissions and the Tyrrell P34. Too many jealous types wrecked a good things.
i Love Cops was that the six wheeled job?
@@jkokich Indeed it was, & it even won the Swedish GP in '76.
Same with the CVT gearbox with Williams FW15C. It could have led to more efficient road cars, but instead, without racing to help people understand the CVT, manufacturers made CVTs act like a regular automatic, making the CVT useless, since the CVT is designed to have an infinite number of speeds, not a discrete number of set speeds.
There are countless other examples in motorsport. Like Audi in the Trans-Am and later the IMSA series. 4-wheel-drive was banned from both after Audi cleaned up the championship. Its stupid how innovation is banned in the very sport where it should be celebrated.
wasnt there also the active suspension that was banned in f1?
This was back in the day when carmakers were still allowed to create and experiment with new ideas. Racing has become so homogenized that it's just one big bore.
ditto
In just about all Motorsport you could say. It was all much more exciting, and interesting back when...
The alternative is F1- so expensive nobody but a couple of moneybags can race.
Agreed.
I wonder if car racing conducts steroid/enhancement testing on its drivers like they do to bicyclists? It almost seems that's the only thing left to complete the restrictions.
Parnelli had a valid point: "No one in USAC ever asked me one question about my experience in the car." Even the owner of the winning car admitted that the improvements were due more to the 4 wheel drive and not the power plant. It took years and some new blood, but USAC got kicked out of Indy. It was way over due. Re-airing of past Indy 500 races get bigger audiences than the live, new races get. What does that say?
...and we STILL don't have AWD in race cars (not even E-racers), even though we have them on the street....I DO NOT GET THAT. Give me an LMP1 Porsche 919 Evo...or the newest Ferrari SF90 Stradale!
@@videojockeysword All wheel drive is a killer in a street race because of the dust on the pavement. The guy with the 10 second Tesla would take their money every week.
At the track, he was just average. Oh, and lastly: The all wheel drive Audi at Pikes Peak. It owned that race as did the 4wd Celica by Rod Millen. It stood for 14 years.
@@videojockeysword The United States Auto Club (USAC) the governing body for the IndyCar series banned AWD shortly after this.
AWD was tried in other road racing classes without success. The handling advantage was offset by the weight and power loss.
That people love exciting new ideas, ingenuity, and variety. They also love it better when more people have a fighting chance to join in and race without the backing of one or more mega corporations. Spot on Sir.
what a day that was.. I was there.. ViVa!! Andy...
Me too!
was in turn 3 waiting on the car to finish, then the fire went out. I thought it was quiet when it was running, seemed even more silent when Mario coasted by and lost..@@kevinrich9471
Thanks, this is one of the most impressive cars of all time, to me. I don't know how effective it is, but I love the little air brake.
Ah, 1967, the greatest year for formula 1. We always watched Wild World of Sports to see the races. Dang, I'm getting old
Yeah, those were the days when ABC taped the race and showed it in prime time the same day. So you had to avoid any sports news all day! That could never be done today!
I like the pajamas the team was wearing. Where can I get me some of those?
Yeah, I want some STP jammies !
I thought the same thing when I saw thier suits!
I was about to comment on the same thing
Just get some blue jimmijams and a pile of STP decals.
1:15 wow getting complimented going through tech inspection - that's deep
Ya you really built a nice car but we are going to have to reduce your intake restrictor until you are no longer competitive ..
Wait, what? Somebody at Indy congratulating a team owner for innovation?!? Did this happen on a parallel timeline?
The chassis was designed by an aircraft engineer named Ken Wallis. I’d dearly love to go over that chassis with a fine tooth and comb. The thing looks incredible!
Haters of a new ass kicking style, is nothing new.
Look at Tesla.
what ever happend to who builds the fastest car wins
@@briannotafan3368 Indeed. I was homologated to run so why only say it can't run after having met success.
@@briannotafan3368 Because then the richest team wins. You need rules in these kind of races.
@ not u - Talking about Draymond Green? video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=yset_widemail_chr_win&p=Drayvon+Green+kick#action=view&id=2&vid=fd881b184fa4c03ca467daeb090adb77
I’d like to get me some STP pajamas
Thank goodness you posted this. I was only 2 years old when it happened but by the time I was 8 I had read everything I could find about it. Just... wow. And then the Lotus the next year also should have won. For shame neither one did but what a history. Look at those helmet and such.... wow . Safety, what? Just get in and git er done! Not quite as bad as the '50's but almost.
At the end of the 1967 season, STP Corp fought with the USAC Rules Committee regarding the banning of turbine engines. The result was that the rules were changed to reduce the turbine's power output by restricting the engine's "air intake", thereby allowing less oxygen in the combustion chamber, resulting in less power. The area for air intake was reduced from 21.9 to 15.9 sq., or about 27% less.
So, for 1968, STP commissioned Lotus Cars to design a new, super light weight, 4 wheel drive chassis, while Pratt & Whitney reworked the restricted turbine engine to develop as much power as possible, even though it reduced reliability.
The performance of the 1968 Lotus Turbines at the 500 and other races on the USAC Trail was revealing. The cars were usually fast, but never won a race due to chronic reliability problems.
In spite of this, at the end of the 1968 season, USAC banned turbine engines, and 4 wheel drive, ending the potential of developing this combination into a winning effort.
Yup yup I followed the Trail and found that. Thanks for the reminders... I had known all of this as a child but forgot. The other sad days in racing included the Gruppe B tragedy and Michele Mouton's car fading so she didn't win the Championship. She was a bad Mo-Fo. There's a cool Audi ad with her and her daughter. ruclips.net/video/za8wchEkfFA/видео.html
Wow, the old piston engine makers were so scared they ran it off the track, sabotaged, and banned it ! In front of everybody, and nobody protested(except the team and Gordon Cooper)
you got that right and the 50mpg didnt help either
It's all fun and games until the same car wins every race, then it's business not engineering.
Google - Mosler Consulier
It's problem - too fast because it was a lot lighter.
@@davidbostock6776 ok i looked at it , now tell me what is the connection between the light weight sports car and the turbine getting 50mpg?
@@williamvolkmann8658
You lost me at Turbine getting 50 MPG. You tell me why morons expect an answer to their idiot questions.
pisses me off too
I was there in 1967 in turn four when it came coasting by...I was so disappointed it lost. He made it look so easy. It was so quiet as it passed by....great memories. :-)
Andy Granatelli was abiding by the rules as they were at the time. He even mentioned that his innovation would not have been significantly restricted, then banned, had the car not performed as well as it did. Indy has hosted many cars that were peculiar to the pack, but the turbine is one of the few that really shook up the competition and began the trend of narrowing the parameters on vehicle design to what we deal with today; uniformity.
tomshiba51 wouldn’t it be fascinating to have a series where the only regs were engine size and vehicle weight?
It was called the Championship-class, under the AAA Contest Board, and it endured for as long as AAA sanctioned motorsports.
Really interesting video. I never knew about that car (I was 3 at the time) but it was great seeing it race now.
Gotta love the classic STP overalls,just sayin'
They were known as "STP Pajamas" for a reason. Weird.
As an helicopter turbine engine mechanic... I am not surprised the turbine engine was banned.
Racing piston engines are heavy and require top fuel to operate above specs to gain the required hp (in my view, that's cheating).
Turbine engines, on the other hand run on at the very least... kerosene... or jp fuel, neither of which are designer fuels and much cheaper than top fuel.
The turbine engine is light yet produces much more hp than an piston engine of the same weight.
Light, very high torque and very high hp.
Yep, not surprised it was banned.
Ban that which is a real work of art. Go figure!
Had Indy not band the Turbine engine racing in the Indy 500 would have been change for ever and the common car on the roads
of the USA may have seen the death or at least a down turn in the piston engine use to day.
Afew years in past I saw a show were a small Turbine engine was use in Ford Taurus along with Genrator and getting 100 MPH
the Germany auto maker Mercedes was so impress with the data they sent car for testing with the new turbine/Genrator system to be install and testing.
Many had the Ideal that Indy told the team leader to pull his car or he and his team would never race any more but the owner
said that was not true and the bearing in the transmission that failed.
One thing was for sure the Turbine engine ate the lunch of ever engine builder in the world and made it only a race for 2 postion
and back after he pass all the cars no one could come even close to him.
Thanks for posting for this was-war in the days of real racing not to say the drivers or cars of to day are not on top or state of the art but in to days world of top race teams It takes real money to win and a few years in the past a driver/owner was doing
a good job and his engine came from a bus and the talk of how well he was doing in the race.
Turbine engines are only really ideal for this kind of relatively constant speed racing. They would certainly never replace piston engines on the street (unless as a generator only in some kind of hybrid) because they are not responsive enough to throttling.
Parnelli was like they brought knives to a gun fight!!
The other drivers called it the "Whooshmobile" 'cause it just went "Whoosh" when it passed 'em up. True story.
Not a turbo.....it's a turbine
turdino
The aircraft mechanic in me cringed every time he said turbo!
@@dallisb1047 i think they (movie directors ,authors, etc..) do this to generate interest in other wise a boring subject // it works
@@dallisb1047 Me too,,I hate uninformed broadcasters.
It's a turboshaft engine, aircraft use turboprop, turbojet, or turbofan engines. A turbocharger has both a turbine and a compressor, the only difference is the manner in which the fuel is combusted. Turbo is more correct in this instance than your colloquial use of "turbo" to describe an accessory on a reciprocating or rotary engine.
I was 12 yrs old and listening to the broadcast scrubbing the bottom of the family pool. I remember how disappointed I was with him not finishing the race.
I watched that race when it was shown live on Australian TV [ for that year,1967, only ]
Can we bring back the STP pajamas?
I remember reading in Hod Rod Magazine in 1964 by various developers including Chrysler--developing a turbine engine for automobiles.
Chrysler did produce a few concept cars with the turbine but it would’ve been far too expensive to mass-produce. Check out Jay Leno’s Garage, he did a piece on those cars.
USAC didn't necessarily make the decision to ban the turbine, they caved to pressure from Ford Motor Company. Ford had too much money invested to let the some upstart like Andy Granatelli and his turbine steal their thunder. It's sad, I wasn't there in 1967, but I was in 1968. The wedge turbines were amazing to see AND hear.
I belive so. It would mean a change to the whole industry and billions of r&d change of setup in the factories, to get the capability of producing turbine engines. They oppose wildly and desperatly any change that treathens their already working scheme. Look at the history of the electric car too - now finally after they held it back for 100 years +
Kim Harbison I have a Ford fan all my life, but I agree with you that FoMoCo must have seen the investment in their four-cam about to be eclipsed by the turbines, and put the squeeze on USAC. Ford was no longer afraid of Drake’s Offy, but Pratt & Whitney was another story.
Upstart!!!!???? Andy had been racing at Indy for 30 yrs. before they built the turbine. Find a copy of his book They Call Me Mister 500.
wedge turbines? really //common
What memories, I was 11 years old, out at the lake camping with family, had a portable radio, tin cans and foil to pick up the race , I got the station yelling, uncle Don uncle Don I got the Indy, those offys were running great, could not hear the turbine car, great play by play, never forget Diamond Lake Oregon, the fishing and Indy.
Rain came along and stopped the race that day, the race was finished the next day. Along with the turbine engine, the car had innovative all wheel drive too. Parnellie could drive any groove he wanted with that car. We were in the fourth turn vista for the race that year. Very disappointed when the gear box failed.
Nice antique GoPro over the cockpit.
My dad was there he told me it was a beautiful car.
My dad was a Big time Jones fan along with Foyt.
Bittersweet he said when the Wooosh mobile failed on a 6 dollar bearing and opened the door for AJ Foyt to the victory.
They went to the front, and just kept pulling away. They were something to watch.
Mario gave him the bird as Parnelli passed him on the backstretch.
That save spin its more impressive tha t the car
my friends and i would gather around his 25" tv to watch the race we were11 at the time the day before we would have our 50 lap bike race around the block after we raced our hot wheels sizzler 500 race man i wanna be a nerdy kid again of corse we were the first to have the model of the stp turbin car my buddy sent his to granatelli and mario andetti autographed the box for him
Growing up I loved the Indy 500...now it's just another crappy spec car race series.
The 60's were the glory years at Indy. So much innovation. Builders tried all sorts of things. Made it interesting to watch. Same with NASCAR, when the factories came up with the Super Bird and the Ford 427 "cammer" . Yeah it's pretty unwatchable these days.
@@RADThird1Yeah, that is the word...unwatchable.
Alot of print ads featured this car.
Even STP decals were around with this,( rare) Graneteli was a great spokesperson for the brand.
The other engine ban came yrs later w Penske' stock block Mercedes that Emerson drove ( dominated the field) back in the 80's. ( eng. Displacement dispute)
Love the crew outfits. Just all light weight coveralls with STP all over them.
WAS AN INCREDIBLE CAR. WOULD HAVE DOMINATED IF THEY WEREN'T OUTLAWED. GRANATELLI WAS A GREAT RACE CAR BUILDER. I REMEMBER THE INDY RACE. THE CARS WERE AS SMOOTH AS SILK
Only time "Mister 500" won the race was with a car designed by someone else. A Dan Gurney Coyote with an Indy Ford engine.
I had a step father who drove the Turbine McLaren. Said it ran great but sucked up all the debris on the track, and roasted radiators of close following cars. His normal tracks were SCCA and NASCAR. Drove a '67 Shelby GT 350 at Daytona.
Although I couldn't wear it now, I miss my childhood STP coat. That and my obnoxious paisley pants and Beatle boots :^) Oh, to be a kid again.
I was a teenager when it ran and it really ran off with the race was watching it on TV in Corydon IN my father was a aircraft engineer and said this will be the future ! but as most people think it was banned because every other team would have to spend millions just to keep up with it ! I always wondered if Chrysler had put the turbine car in full production if NASCAR would have been forced to allow it ??
the chrysler of 1963 had a turbine car and the heat was un real ford had some to all were to hot
This was the last of the nice looking Formula cars 🏎
I remember this car and STP. It was something new and different. This might NOT sit well with some people..... Some people must have their way or they will have a fit, like a toddler. Childish....!!!!! A beautiful car...!!!!!
That was an awesome time.
I'm still pissed off at USAC's decision to kill the turbine engine by excessively limiting the intake air to the engine. I still haven't heard a good reason why the decision was made. Damn politics.
Was Chevy running an engine at the time? Around this time NHRA & NASCAR we're factoring and otherwise limiting Chrysler and Ford because of the 426 Hemi and 427 boss and cammer engines. Chevy had a hand in ALL of that. Never understood why they wouldn't just step up their engines? God knows the BBChevy could have competed to to toe with some help.
lobbiest groups
@silverbird58 an other great in the racing field is Andy Granatelli his ideas were cutting edge as well / they are taken for granted / the squeaky wheel and all that
Turbine engines are very expensive and not very economical for a street car .. Ford had a couple about 1964 or so . It could melt the grill of the car behind it at a red light that is if any even had a plastic grill in 1964..
@@mikeskidmore6754 what do you think of the chrysler project turbine cars they built for the auto show
Sad thing is that there was a real chance there to improve the breed, or at least create a turbine formula that could provide exciting and fast racing that teams could actually afford and give good competition, unlike the hideously expensive drivetrains that would come. I'd love to see a race series now with, say, a sealed and approved 1-200K reliable helicopter turbine that everyone could run and use their budgets on chassi/tire/etc tech and transportinstead of worrying about ten million dollar engines.
Ahhh, the good ol' days when Indy racing was still exciting.
Actually The U.S Auto club backed off of the ban. In 1968 there were 3 turbine powered cars entered by Andy Granatelli and STP. Two of them qualified on the front row. Of the 3 two broke and one crashed. They were built by Lotus and were faster than the piston-engine cars. USAC reduced the air intake on the turbines but they were still fast with one of them leading late in the race when it broke. After the 68 race the rules were changed again to further reduce the air intake. The engine was basically killed by the rules
@Flame Resistant Troll And the cars racing there now are basically piston engined upside down aircraft with their wings, sooooo....
@8:05 Coop was prophetic with his words. He nailed it.
USAC killed USAC with this kind of politics.....
What I remember most about the STP Turbine powered race cars, Is; there were 2 second generation STP Turbine cars.
And Mario Andretti Was the driver of the #1 car.
And in a single race he crashed his #1 car.
Then Mario relived/took the #2 car from the assigned driver.
And promptly crashed it into "Whoosh" the original STP Turbine powered race car. That was also on the track during that race.
There by destroying all; 3 of the STP Turbine powered race cars in one single race. And that was basically the end of the STP Turbine powered race cars.
I want some STP coveralls! Wish I still had my Hot Wheels turbine Indy car...
Automatic, all wheel drive,air break,off set driver compartment,turbine. Wow could have been awesome for future racing.
I loved this car...❤
I'm not saying it was wrong or bad. If anything I'm very impressed with the innovation with this car. Yet I am glad racing has stuck with regular engines. Nothing beats the sound of say a v10 f1 car flying by.
Gordon Cooper was spot on.
Seeing the turbine car amongst the ICE cars and the ease with which it devoured them was akin to a MiG-15 joining a gaggle of P51 Mustangs and Thunderbolts. I say MiG because the competitors saw him more of a foe than a friend.
Saw him race the turbine at the Milwaukee Mile, had the same outcome. Leading near the end of the race and the car quit on him. I'm sure if there were 2 turbine cars running at the same time or they switched drivers. Joe Leonard was the other driver.
..think I heard Ford calling those guys - "careful, you might have an accident..."
Thanks for sharing this.
This car is in the Unser Museum in Albuquerque NM
To get the rest of the story Read "They call me Mister 500" by Andy Granatelli. The turbine car came back with a new design for three other turbine cars.
I grew up in Indy and remember this car so well. USAC treated Andy very bad in the end. He was a very smart man.
They have weird stp pajamas
Dale olson indeed
I like the old school GoPro
Stopwatch, not camera.
Those guys at 3:15 all forgot to change out of their Pyjamas!
Everyone who loved racing in the US hated USAC. Their mismanagement turned the Indy 500 from a national event to just another race.
turbine as a el. generator is the best powertrain, esp for racing
Love those STP onesies
They should've let it compete. If it needs restrictors to be fair than so be it. In a few years everyone would havethem and it wouldn't matter.
Where can I obtain such STP pajamas as these men so proudly wear?
….I need to know!
wow driver will hit the wall before the engine brave man
Driver safety wasn't a big issue in the 1960s.
At least we get rotary cars in a couple Motorsports.
Jerry Grant at Ontario had straight away speeds of over 240 MPH.
Not in 1967 he didn't.
awesome. haulin ass
Andy Granatelli was a genius at marketing. Love the 67. Camaro pace car. Where can I get those STP PJs for my wife and I?
Fancy duds for the STP pitcrew!
The high school I went to in the 1960's had a big car culture which was divided into two camps, Ford and Chevy. One thing they agreed on was their dislike of a turbine car and the thought of a turbine car at the Indy 500 was sacrilege. If it wasn't piston powered it was worthless.
I myself like the idea of a turbine car.
It was later revealed that reason for the bearing failure--the transmission input-shaft bearing--was due to the design of the mating between the engine and the transmission didn't incorporate a bellhousing, which anyone whom built cars woth manual transmissions for use in performance or severe-duty arenas could tell you would've maintained a proper alignment of the transmission input-shaft... which if not done would profoundly effect (shorten) the life of all components involved.
Also, I believe that like when a 1st-gen Chrysler Hemi was built and tested for proposal of use in IndyCar racing, the turbine-powered racer was quashed due to vested interest. I've seen it in IndyCar, Formula-1 and in NASCAR: Anything that gives a clear, fault-free advantage that also advances the sport technologically gets fought against, then disallowed--one way or another!😡
there was not much testing in those days
Yep. My father entered an upgraded electric Zagato Elcar in the local SCCA competition in 1976 and was doing well, but he stopped to back up off a cone. Those in charge changed the rules to exclude electrics before the next meet.
In the early 2000's, there was a retired machinist who hung out at Moose #500. Racers congregate. He was concerned about cooling that bearing. Requested to put an oil lubricating port to it. He was denied. He was not a BS'er. He knew his stuff.
iv'e also seen the flex plate on autos crack around the crank on oem equipt in pass cars (500mi)
People always talk about things they would change if they could go back in time, myself I would make sure this car won that race then I would go to 1987 & make sure Mario's car didn't fail him.
I think that turbine engine ended up installed in a 1980 vette which was street driven.
THE ENTIRE CREW LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE ALL WEARING STP PAJAMAS !!!!
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
makes me realize how old i am
That was when USAC got another name - USUC.
That team would win Indy 2 years later.
A couple years before, Grannateli brought the Novi. Look it up
That car was on it way to it's first win. 2 $ part broke. They banded it.
So Indy had the turbine car before F1!? Did not know that.
Actually there was a significant chance of having a turbine car at Indy in 1964. The legendary Smokey Yunick designed an Indy racer from the ground up with the fuel, engine, and drive train in a central body and the driver hanging in a pod between the left side wheels. This is commonly known as the "Capsule Car". His first choice for an engine was a turbine and the car was designed with this in mind - three years before the first Granatelli/STP turbine car. Unfortunately the financial deal with the turbine supplier didn't work out so the car eventually ended up being powered by the venerable 4 cylinder Offenhauser engine. Also unfortunately the car hit the wall during its qualifying attempt on the last day of qualifying and there was insufficient time to repair the damage before the end of qualifying so it never competed in the race.
The real story that year was getting the entire pit-crew to agree to wear those pajama's plastered with the STP stickers.
Hey, back then at Indianapolis you spelled God with the letters STP and Andy Granatelli was like Casey Stengel so his crews would gladly do anything for him
That is one of the coolest cars ever made. I wish they didn't ban it though.
4WD? Well there you go!
This car is now owned by the Smithsonian. Pretty important piece of History!
Nice pajamas at 3:13
Hey Indy bring baclk experimental cars
Wait and see what happens now that Roger Penske is owner of Indianapolis speedway 🤔🙄
We would have had turbine cars on the road & with the invention of the reduction geared turbine blades as opposed to the hot section on the turbofans, which creates more power & less fuel consumption, turboprop engines would have been in all automotive vehicles from heavy trucks & heavy equipment, the turbine car that Chrysler made would have been mass produced. The world is controlled through the 1% circle & they do it through ordo ab chao, basicly the world is ran on fear tactics, through greed. That's why nothing last, & they do not build things to last for the wage slaves. Sad world we live in.