Zwift CEO Interview: What worked, what didn't, and what's coming?
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- Опубликовано: 7 авг 2024
- Here's a full interview with Zwift CEO Eric Min, diving into all sorts of business-focused questions.
0:00 Quick Introduction
0:35 What did Eric do before Zwift?
3:01 First time Eric showed Ray Zwift
4:33 Zwift employee bases and HQ behind the scenes
5:32 Why take on investor baking for Zwift?
6:50 Which cycling app was Eric’s inspiration?
7:54 Eric’s Bike Collection/Fleet
8:46 Eric’s favorite route to ride in the world
9:30 Explain the leadership changes over last year
11:40 What Eric wants to change near-term
12:51 How can Zwift attract new users to Zwift?
14:25 Can Zwift ever get an ROI for investors?
16:12 Explain the price increase
17:30 How many paid subscribers does Zwift have?
17:55 Is Zwift’s staff count right-sized now?
18:40 How do you balance new cycling tech vs waiting?
19:46 How does and will Zwift leverage AI?
20:48 What’s Eric’s proudest moment at Zwift?
21:42 Why hasn’t Zwift invested in structure training?
22:47 Zwift’s complicated industry relationships
22:33 Is Zwift’s Women’s Tour de France Sponsorship working?
26:35 Is Zwift still trying to get into the Olympic Games?
27:40 Explain all things Zwift Secret Tron Bike
29:30 When will other companies be compatible with Zwift Ride Frame?
30:00 Why can’t people use Zwift Ride/Cog with other platforms?
31:13 Why isn’t Zwift doing more around cheating?
32:51 What’s Eric’s favorite Zwift feature?
33:55 Will Zwift gamify the platform more?
34:51 What’s unannounced coming up?
#Zwift #ZwiftCEO #DCRAINMAKER #Cycling 
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Multiple profiles for a household would be nice under one subscription
Yes! A family plan! Or kids for free?
They REALLY should take into consideration the currency problem worldwide. I'm a zwift user since 2020 and USD20 in Brazil is a LOT OF MONEY. In an alternative-real-life conversion it would be similar to a USD100 for Americans... It's getting really difficult not to think about migrating to other plataforms..
@@clinthoneycutt4246 can I identify as a kid haha
Ray, you‘re a great interviewer. I love Eric’s grounded perspective on AI and VR. Thanks.
i live in 🍁 and love biking. it has literally changed my life. we get at least 6 months of snow where i am, and biking with studded tires can only be so much fun in -20 weather. Zwift has allowed me to enjoy my passion when there's 5' of snow outside my house. i have been with the platform since the Beta. But please have a multi-user subscription!!
Ability to purchase Zwift products in all markets needs to happen. Nothing like paying a subscription where you cannot use all the features of Zwift, as you cannot buy the hardware.
Too right.
They will never do that. It give others the ability to compete. Zwift is the biggest when it comes to players. That is what makes it best. I hate being on a platform with bots all around. I hate it when gaming and with virtual cycling
Have been a Zwift user since December 2016 when Zwift was $10 per month. Zwift has really helped me get fit and stay fit over the years. It has made indoor riding enjoyable for me. I just payed my first $20/month payment, and I have no plans to pause or cancel my subscription. I am now using it for cycling and running 3-5 days each week depending on the weather. I still consider it to be a great deal for what I get out of it. Thanks for the great interview Ray!
Try the free alternatives if you want value.
I started in Dec 2023 , have trained indoors since 1987 and up until Dec 2023 had been using my 1987 CATEYE CS-1000 trainer . So paying $20 is bargain . Alot of people travel spend alot , eat out , go to the movies. 1 size does not fit all . 48 day to get the Tron bike, level 68 , my outdoor level of racing on the bike has risen . I race indoors . And I have a smart trainer with 40in TV . I also have lost 2 friends getting hit on their bikes . 25yrs ago I would ride outside, less cars, good road, no cell phones, those days are gone . Thank goodness for ZWIFT , its not boring now riding indoors .
Its a good deal if you use it constant. If you need to look on money, 2x the original price hurts. Especially cause it wasnt developed further than adding non useful worlds (alp was the last update, which really added something) new with impact).
@@Jasonallansmith if you use stuff only available in Zwift, I guess your money is well invested, but in my case, Zwift doesn't add any function I need that a free software doesn't provide: so why would I pay a monthly fee.
Secondly, Zwift has always gone its way, without taking into account customer requests: there used to be a forum where you could disuss problems or new fonctionality, but truth is, people got angry that nothing was ever made...
Half the price of Peloton. But it seems like let’s appeal to the rich and not worry about those who can’t afford the increase. I like the sneaky comment that hints at the velodrome finally ready.Eric is a big spender of investors money but at least Zwift isn’t stagnant.
Great interview, thank you for getting Eric to sit down and talk about the past, present, and future.
Great questions Ray.
It was all going so well until Eric mentioned Boost Mode. "Let the community decide"... well, the response first time round was pretty decisive 🤣
Yeah. He can keep that for his E-bike series. It's fun enough with the power ups already provided.
Very informative conversation. Thank you for sharing DC🙏
I don’t care if zwift costs 20 euro’s, as long as that 20 euro’s is keeping me happy, it’s ok. But when repeatedly paying that amount the platform should be improving at a regular basis and be stable. I hope the Zwift team will keep developing features that are requested by the audience. If other platforms get better than Zwift, they might get into trouble. Let’s hope the development will surprise us with cool features and keep us happy.
Id totally buy a free version of zwift with ads on screen. Or a version at 4.99$ with ads.
Thank you for interview. I love zwift and happily pay for it each month. Trainer rides before zwift sucked. I live in the flat lands so the climbing is an important part of my training. Plus, not getting hit by a car is an important part of my fitness and health regimen. Thank you Zwift for being you.
Incredibly done, fantastic discussion
Love the interview- thank you!
Would enjoy an interview with George Gilbert of indieVelo as well!
Great questions and a really good and informative interview!
Great questions. Really like these types of interviews...thank you!
Fantastic interview
Great interview! Thanks Ray and Eric. Love Zwift!
Awesome interview.
It is amazing and nice to see how little has changed in terms of Zwift in-game UI. You would imagine that over 10 years some companies revamp the UI completely (not always to the best result though).
20 dollars? TrainerRoad suddenly looks to be far better value.
I use both the running and biking part of Zwift. I keep hoping that unlike a few other apps they don't drop the running part because I feel it's just as important as the biking part (at least for me).
Great interview with lots of insight. Thanks!
What a great interview. Tons of info about how Eric manages Zwift. I respect his sense of focus and attention to risks. Anyone who has ever run a business knows how hard it's to balance new investment for expansion and risk control to keep the business sustainable.
Rio de Janeiro dev team 🥰🇧🇷! Great interview
Great job in that interview.
Great video! I look forward to the day my CORE sensor integrates to Zwift.
Lived this content. Keep it coming
Love Zwift + and super interview. THX DC R!
"Zwift is working to simplify onboarding and reduce costs to make indoor cycling more accessible to millions of potential users, focusing on cycling as their core business to serve the community and investors." this was the AI resume which made me laugh 😅😅
great interview DC & Eric, overall zwift is a great and engaging platform, and the focus on the community aspect is the way to go, not just elites and not just the gamification ... as I think many are/were irl cyclists first. I'd like to see more fondo type challenge events not just categorized racing; why not just let the categories self seed once the ride is rolling (like in Tour Zwift etc), the prospect of only ever being able to race at B for example doesn't always fit in with my training and outdoor ride plans - too much intensity. finally more alpe like climbs with trees would be appreciated. I don't do mario cart climbing😀
I love Eric. Good interview DCR.
Thanks Dave!
has the other video with desfit/eric been released yet?
I'm happy to pay the zwift fee ... been using it several times a week for many years. Getting out on the bike for me is much harder due to young kids and where I live ... zwift solves that problem. I tried all the competitors but never lasted more than one ride. Zwift just does everything I need.
Whats the timeframe for the new HUD update?
Great Interview Ray. Super insightful answers to some great questions. Gives me confidence in the platform tbh...
I wish the controllers are available for worldwide shipping. Been using zwift since 2018 and almost 4 days weekly for training and racing, this will be a great addition to my experience
Zwift is a tremendous endeavour and i hope it endures. The UI is actually surprisingly similar great to see the original vision still carries through.
My #1 question is, if the goal is to develop the features customers want, how do you know what your customers want? How do you survey both existing customers and potential customers to understand what they want? What do you ask them?
@@psouthworth they dont.
@@99cya Not true at all. Zwift conducts broad biannual user surveys. They don't disclose the findings but they absolutely spend resources to learn more about what their users want and need.
Additionally, they conduct smaller targeted "experience" surveys based on your activity you'd done e.g. if you did Zwift Academy or Tour of Watopia you'll get a survey afterwards.
If they would, they would show a consistent route profile and arrow that only goes into one direction instead of designing dinosaurs that you zoom by in a few seconds.
The surveys were absolute gibberish. "Choose which statement reflects your experience"
WTF?? Why can't you ask me questions in plain English??
Great job. Did you happen to do a video about that first Zwift experience in the early years? If so, do you have a link?
If zwift does a zwift ride frame only with bear claw crank arms, ill buy it. I can deal with the smaller front chainring, but need adjustable crank arms if its going to be a family solution for me.
I love Zwift - great interview
Unfortunately, Zwift made the mistake of using an old game engine from the start. Improvements are now more complex and expensive.
Hardware should be simpler in order to attract new customers. It has already become much simpler. I don't think that will lead to more customers.
This kind of thing and the price increase will probably make them lose more.
Many serious riders will definitely not like the battery. Just another piece of the puzzle in terms of the game.
If you compare the cost of a good game (high-end graphics) to Zwift, it is extremely expensive.
So, virtual shifting protocol will not be made available for other software platforms. So you can buy all the zwift hardware, and be tight to Zwift only? That is disappointing.
It’s their IP. Surely they can be expected to want a return on their investment. Why should the others just get it for free.
I have a Kickr Bike. It has virtual shifting and works with all platforms. It was developed by Wahoo. I expect that others will develop solutions and they will be platform agnostic.
I agree. But the plans and intentions were kept vague. So im happy its cleared up, so now we know the idea. It makes sense in a way, but open standards are so more powerfull in terms of scaling…
@@PaulHuizer completely agree with open standards, however, I expect this market is so tight that Zwift decided to keep this to their platform. I think there was another product, Caveworks Rivet that DesFit just showed that is also frame and bars, just like The Ride that will work with any trainer and even the climb. This will work with any platform.
Sounds like smart business plan.
Elite seems to have something similar on their new trainers that can do virtual shifting but is computed directly by the trainer, so it's app agnostic as the connected apps don't need to do anything on their end to support it. Looking forward to that one.
I’m disappointed Zwift won’t more do about cheating at lower levels. I think an algorithm could easily detect abnormal performances. The booster battery is stupid. I like new racing division and use Zwift a lot. Overall I’m happy with service. Please integrate AI with training. I’d love a feature where a virtual coach would tell you what kind of training ride to do. .
It seems easy to fix, but they don't want to.
Battery cheating is an idiotic idea from a lost CEO who could not answer a simple question: what do you like the most on Zwift? Hello... something that exists in the platform. In other words, he likes what the platform no longer has 🤣🤣🤣
Pricing should be US$20/mo to include group rides, races and ranking; and US$12/mo for non-group activities. I feel like I'm getting ripped off subsidizing full time zwifters when I just want to do structured workouts a couple of times a week.
If this guy spends as much time on the platform as he says he does, why are there still so many glaring shortcomings?
I got a years subscription included when I bought my Kickr, but when it expires this winter I am absolutely going to look for another platform. I could not care less about racing or messaging or teams and Strava tracks my segment progress.
Check out my whoosh. I used it once recently, it's now pretty legit given it's free. The value zwift offers to non racers is horrendous
Said this in a previous comment as well. Totally agree. There is a clear divide between people who RELIGIOUSLY Zwift (use all the features, race a couple of times a week, buy the bikes, etc.) and people who use Zwift more sparingly to just get active in indoor days. They shouldn’t be paying the same thing.
You're missing out on the team/racing aspect of zwift. It truly is engaging.
@@jfloresdrums How can I be "missing out" on something I am *completely* uninterested in? It's like saying I'm missing out on the kava harvest in Tonga or something.
Yo DC! great questions there!
Thanks!
It's really a shame that they aren't planning on opening shifting to other platforms. The "confusion" excuse is also a bit lame, there's nothing confusing about it.
Eric didn't invent that excuse. It's standard marketing speak for why an organization doesn't do something. It's all about the customer. Sure it is. 🙄
Basically saying "our customers are idiots"
Imagine having 1 million subscribers at €15,- and making 15 million a month and saying you need a 33% price increase…..
In order to get to 1 millions subs for a product like this, you have to spend a good amount of money. Also, lots of people pause their subs during summer, so it's not 15 million per month.
Zwift has probably been spending lots of investor money and not turning a profit for 10 years, while they were growing. When growth slows, it becomes more important to become profitable, so your company does not run out of money. That usually means making tough choices like laying people off and/or raising prices.
thanks Ray for the interview, nothing that would make me want to subscribe again to Zwift.
Interesting, especially in terms of investors & ROI. Been struggling to login at peak times with TdF @ the same time as price increase. User experience is generally quite good & innovation not so important to me. Would like something like a course log with PB’s for routes I could track though. Is this what the rest of the market wants? I dunno!
Great job to Zwift. Its not easy to be the first person hacking through a new market jungle. Most fail. I would love to see better responsiveness in game, and the physical bike frame being able to adapt to different size riders.
Yet another DCRM video that we really want to see.
I love zwift and glad it exists. Thanks for the interview.
If the Tron bike was a production full featured smart bike like the KICKR Bike it would be the best smart bike on the market lol
I think that a sort of "adaptive menu" could be interesting. A menu that shape itself based on the habits of the user: more group ride than races, or a category of wo vs another one...
Price increase and frequent trainer disconnects.
Switched to Rouvy and have not once had an issue connecting my trainer.
Seriously, when can we get Zwift goods at Korea!? Zwift play, Zwift bike.. we want it all!
Zwift needs to leverage AI in ways to help riders understand how long a particular route will take. They have all of this data and it should be easy to implement. When loolking at a route on the list, it should tell us how long Zwift thinks it will take to finish.
i only recently got into cycling because my knees wouldn't let me run as much as they used to. i was about to order a zwift ride when i noticed that the total price for it to be usable for me would be around 1650 € (bike + subscription + tablet holder + shipping). i really don't get why they wouldn't include at least half a year's subscription for something that's really only usable with the zwift software. got a domyos challenge bike now.
Let me know when the Zwift Ride is compatible or ships with the Garmin Tacx 3. An “affordable” realistic ride.
Just a note for everyone that cancelled zwift, make sure they dont start billing you again. As I mentioned in another post here I canceled our zwift accounts when they raised the price. The cancellation confirmation email was in May 7th. I did not get billed in May or June but was billed again in July. So keep an eye on whatever you were being billed on.
I think virutal shifting needs to standardise between all the different platforms available. While I understand why they want to try and tie everyone to the platform, I really think that they should also allow other platforms be able to leverage the stuff they've created. They will still make more money at the end of the day through the hardware sales. But doing things like raising prices "the way they did" does not create any good will towards them. I understand that they needed to after leaving things as is for 7 years. but a $AU100 increase per annum with no notice or letting people prepurchase at the current rate was a bad move by them and will take some time for people to move from that.
This is what I'm looking forward to with the new Elite trainer that was just announced on Eurobike. They'll have something similar to virtual shifting, but the computation is done directly on the trainer, so apps don't need to do anything support it like Zwift does. The shifting can be controlled via their App or via custom buttons like their newly announced smart frame.
Thoughts for Zwift CEO:
1. Make seasonal subscriptions a thing. (Full price and functions for 4 months, $1 or $2 for the other 8 months, but without the ability to use Zwift but usage info is retained, customer chooses months.)
2. Make Mario Kart style stages with goofy powerups/powerdowns.
3. Create a separate track maker program that would allow importing of data (Strava, etc.) and a then allow a user to drag-n-drop in design elements like trees or buildings to make a custom track. Include a way to share them with a worldwide .
@@PeacefulRallyCar-pw3cs Why not have team cars in the game? Then you drive them by pedaling. Top speed: 150mph
Agree. The ability to create custom tracks by GPX file uploads would be big for many riders.
pricing is just 2 high
🎉
Custom data display please! Better graphics! Maybe add more of actual game type features?
I would like to see Zwift make more effort to capture the gaming community. Cyclists gonna cycle, but how do we get people onto bikes who are sitting on their couch? I describe Zwift racing to my gamer friends as “Call of Duty” but the bike is your controller. I could also see a push from those customers for better graphics and environments.
I use zwift in the winter months.. It seems to me there has been zero development the last years. With 300 (?) employees I would expect more.
Sort out the basics: Control menus that hark back to 80's console games. Controls navigation with the Apple TV remote (one of the most used hardware platforms) is pretty abysmal.
Ditch power ups. Increase progress levels. The platform is stable and we have enough roads. If it aint broke etc...
So excited, I can feel a lot is happening on our beloved Zwift
The cheating issue on regular races gotta be addressed. It's SO frustrating seeing in all races CAT D, people flying above 6w/kg... I gave up riding races because of cheaters. It would be an awesome feature to motivate we improving our performance. Get rid of cheaters please!
AI / machine learning based training programs (like XERT or TR...). WRT the BIKE: full immersion of bike into Zwift like riser feature built in already, and ability to have aero bars easily swapped in as well as crank lengths etc..., and being able to use other trainers like Tacx etc... then the price increase makes more sense to more people.
The only function you need on a Stationary Exercise Bike is accurate power, the rest is fantasy and so inferior to riding a real bike...
@@davidferry8455 agreed
Zwift just like Peloton thought we'd be locked into our homes.. and invested as such. It's not the end of course. Perhaps the next pandemic and future lockdown(s) will give these companies the shot in the arm they're waiting for with more subscribers though.
@@escostar9990 two different worlds. Peloton is like Nordictrac or Bowflex or whatever the next fitness equipment is. Zwift is for people who already enjoy cycling, it's the opposite direction. That's why Zwift isn't Peloton and the riders are different.
i subscribed to Zwift for about 2-3 years. I eventually stopped because I thought it got boring. I had done almost all the routes in all the worlds. Also, I lost interest in all the gamification. I didn't care about XP or drops. That's not why I ride. I ride to see interesting landscape and unwind from stress in my life. Zwift is good for people who really want to compete with others. I wouldn't invest personally in Zwift because I think its market is limited. It really caters to the hard core competitive cyclist, not only from a setup point of view but also from a perspective of being able to put out a lot of W/kg. Casual cyclists would more likely choose Peloton. Enthusiast cyclists but not racers don't want to pay $20/month to ride in a cartoon world. Just because someone is using Strava for free and uploading some rides doesn't mean they want to pay $240/year to do indoor racing.
No news about when they will sale the Zwift ride without the Wahoo trainer?
This fall.
Instant price is increase was wrong, customers deserve notice.
How about letting us import our outside rides from Strava into Zwift?
I messaged Zwift about this almost a year ago and they said they pass it onto their partnership development team?..not heard anything. I would also love more "real world" routes, challenges, especially the routes we do ourselves on a regular basis. Zwift already pairs with Strava so pairing that GPS data to ride your regular 50 or 100 km routes while on Zwift would be possible.
@@funnights74 i love it, come on Zwift!
Add belt drive and bearclaw cranks, and then I'll buy the Zwift Ride.
Very impressive CEO who has a passion for what his company is all about. I like the all in one solution of the Zwift Ride at that reasonable price point. Just have to check on how adjustable it is for reach, measurements, etc.
3:22 and 10 years later, Zwift still looks exactly the same, and that's why I stopped paying for it and am moving to Rouvy
Some of the numbers mentioned seem questionable. 1m subs.... is that unique since launch or currently paying now?. a third of all users competed in zwift games?
Zwift NEEDS to ship hardware worldwide, no exceptions. Over 1 million subscribers at (average) $20 per month .. they are making bank, provide more in-game features faster, hire more developers if needed.
Why can't you buy the Cog in Australia?
31:14 I'm a little bit disappointed that ZHQ has no intention to make virtual shifting an industrial standard. Technically it is trivial to expand existing protocol profiles to support these features and there are MitM apps out there as an alternative solution.
Im getting a treadmill next to my bike. I want full treadmill support with zwift (incline, speed, everything).
You’ll get this with the wahoo treadmill this year
@@korywalsh too expensive. It should be open standard and work with many brands.
Treadmills aren't solely Zwift's fault. The treadmill companies don't want the integration
@@SamuelLudden thats not true. some brands tried. zwift does not allow a connection and now they probably want to protect the new wahoo treadmill.
Who needs that Power up Feature?
Initial cost to get on zwift is expensive. But the subscription is much better than paying gym member ship and paying for personal trainers. Join a group which has regular zwift rides one can get fit easily. once fit, can join races.
Also, can save time going outside rides, as zwift is in the space of your home.!!
Better than paying a gym membership?... If people just go to the gym and only sit on their arse on likely spin bike.. then yea.. what's the point . But a gym is so much more, including strength, functional, tread etc etc classes. I'd say Peloton is that all in one home gym. Zwift isn't a gym replacement and is one dimensional for road cycling only.
Still no rowing in the near future 13:30
It would seem very easy to add. (Both Concept2 and WaterRower machines can broadcast power output by BlueTooth). The speed algorithm is easy to calculate and there are no elevation or surface corrections to make. It should be a no brainer and would likely provide a significant subscription boost IMO. Many cyclists row as well.
I'm only commenting with one word: Indievelo!
Indievelo is very cool but im afraid once they get some realllly good updates going that zwift will just buy it out and either use the software or just get rid of a competitor
I want to be able to plug my IPad into my TV, and use Zwift that way. But two years ago when I tried, while using my rollers, it wasn’t doable. How about now?
Virtual e bike with battery you charge and use while riding ?. Like f1.
Zwift still has potential and testing some of virtual cycling alternatives: is the best (this is my personal opinion though)
My personal takes:
1) it definitely should focus on increasing the graphics quality (depending on the hardware user has access to),
2) the most importantly: it would be great to have an open, AI-generated World and almost infinite routes nobody can possibly drive in their lifetimes... That would be the biggest competitive advantage over the car cam-based, indoor smart-trainer cycling platforms.
Yet, I don't believe Zwift has the potential to deliver the 1) and 2), at least not in 2024. This is not a A-game developer/publisher with millions of USD budget. The opportunity window seems to get closed after pandemics...
One word - MyWhoosh
Zwift should make something like GT Bike V!!!!
Boost mode why...... focus on cycling .
I notice Eric is wearing and Apple Ultra watch. I would be curious to know if he uses a different HRM for Zwift. The Ultra integration (or any Apple Watch) is pretty flaky and a frustrating process. I know run a cheap Coospo HRM from Amazon for this reason. Pisses me and my wife off that we no longer use our Apple Watches !
I know the room looks better that way but those TVs are placed too high.
Is there a possibility of Zwift going public in the future? Thank you for this great interview. Very informative.
not a chance, too niche of a product. Look what happened to Peloton
To expansive im Germany. +33% 19.99 € / month are to much.
What doesn't work?? The price!
Why?
Please ask the MyWoosh CEO next, this is more relevant to me for the future. ;)