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Why Are Some Wizards POOR? - Harry Potter Explained
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- Опубликовано: 21 дек 2022
- Welcome to Harry Potter Theory. Today we’re discussing wizarding economics- specifically, why and how a MAGICAL world would still have impoverished people. With the advent of magical capabilities, how can there possibly be witches and wizards living derelict lifestyles? At the very least, shouldn’t every witch / wizard be able to source clean clothes?
In Harry Potter, there are many passages alluding to the lack of economic stability in certain wizarding families- with a particular focus on the Weasley’s.
From their house to their to their hand-me-down robes, it’s certainly no secret that the Weasley’s were financially stretched. Draco Malfoy even makes a comment towards Ron where he suggests that the Weasley family name is synonymous with this sort of thing.
“Think my name's funny, do you? Well, no need to ask yours. Red hair, and a hand-me-down-robe? You must be a Weasley.”
And when Harry first witnesses the Weasley Family vault, he’s at a loss for words:
“Harry enjoyed the breakneck journey down to the Weasleys’ vault, but felt dreadful, far worse than he had in Knockturn Alley, when it was opened. There was a very small pile of silver Sickles inside, and just one gold Galleon. Mrs.Weasley felt right into the corners before sweeping the whole lot into her bag.”
But the Weasleys weren’t the only characters in the Harry Potter story that were lacking in funds. In fact, in my opinion one of the most EXTREME examples of poverty in Harry Potter is Remus Lupin. It’s reinforced over and over and over that his clothes are tatty and that he looked sickly.
The first time that we’re introduced to Lupin’s character, he’s described as follows:
“The stranger was wearing an extremely shabby set of wizard’s robes that had been darned in several places. He looked ill and exhausted. Though quite young, his light brown hair was flecked with gray. [...]
“It’s on his case,” she replied, pointing at the luggage rack over the man’s head, where there was a small, battered case held together with a large quantity of neatly knotted string. The name Professor R. J. Lupin was stamped across one corner in peeling letters.”
Then, again at the sorting ceremony:
“Professor Lupin looked particularly shabby next to all the other teachers in their best robes.”
When Harry encounters Lupin for the second time, after their arrival at Hogwarts, the passage even suggests that Lupin had eaten properly for the first time in a while:
“Lupin smiled vaguely and placed his tatty old briefcase on the teacher’s desk. He was as shabby as ever but looked healthier than he had on the train, as though he had had a few square meals.”
Was Lupin SO POOR that he couldn’t afford FOOD? How can this be a reality in Wizarding Society?
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In the second or maybe fourth or fifth book? There were a few chapters where Harry was at the Weasley's House Molly did produce a Sauce from her Wand and that there were Magical Cookbooks in her Kitchen so the Gamps Law thing doesn't make sense.
Second and how does magic come to people? How was magic born. Weren’t the *very first* muggle born?
Can u do life of lucious mayfoy?
For Lupin - maybe that was by choice. Hiring a malnourished werewolf vs a fully healthy one. Maybe it’s thought that because he looks weaker he is less a threat or if he were too successful he engages in villiany. When Lupin got to Hogwarts he didn’t need to look malnourished because he was working for Dumbledore who knew what he was and wasn’t afraid.
On the money part - I would argue the goblins enchant the money or mark it with magic and if that were multiplied the copies would lack that magic mark.
Tom Riddle's wizard family was also poor.
But if there were spells that could repair glasses for instance why would there not be spells that could repair clothing so that it didn’t look shabby. Also if you can change a rat into a teacup why couldn’t you change a torn robes into new shiny robes? To me these are still a huge plot holes and make no sense.
In the newest Fantastic beasts movie there was a scene where a witch transmuted the baker guy clothes into new ones.i thought there was no excuse for a wizard to use old clothes.
@@brokoryfoods Makes me wonder why families even bother buying the kids new robes every year if they couldn't simply just cast a spell to conjure them new clothes.
Because you cannot transfigure everything into anything. There are laws and limitations as to what you can change.
For example: It is true that one can multiply already available food, but if one has read more carefully, one would know that using spells like gemino to multiply food, makes the copies of the food lose their nutritional value and therefore be useful only as filler. Meaning if you ate only replicated food, eventually you would be malnourished. That is the explanation.
Now can, if you want, you can not read this part. But I'm about to go off on a little tangent.
So this is one of the issues, that always bothers me when I decide to indulge in some fantasy. That issue is the way that people seem to treat things they cannot explain, simply because they fall under the fantasy genre. What I mean is exactly this: "Ow, there are spells that can replicate stuff. And the characters don't have enough of everything. Then that must mean WAR. Plot holes, plot holes, nothing makes sense, AHHHHHHH." *then they throw their hands in the air and say to themselves this is just badly made, having read nearly nothing, or atleast not in enough detail *.
Same thing happens across some other fandoms and honestly it's fucking annoying. Fantasy has laws and if you read carefully and even if you've had to make up some stuff to explain certain things, it's still a logical explanation.
The reason this is even a problem, is because a lot of fantasy stories, like HP have a lot of potential. And they're often just dismised, because ... "hey, it's just fantasy, nothing makes sense.
@@maironetelehtaneloimori7239 but my post had nothing to do with food it had to do with spells to repair items or transfiguration spells that change one item into another. That has nothing to do with replication of food so your explanation doesn’t answer any of the questions posed in my post.
@@pjschmid2251 It probably follows the same or similar laws and becomes more brittle over time. (Or with each repair, etc) Like, you can't make anything out of nothing, there must be a resource utilized. At least that's the conclusion I've come to. I think Hermonie states something similar in Deathly Hollows.
I think Lupin was just truly depressed. So he didn't have the energy needed or the desire to take care of himself. Maybe he rebuffed any of Dumbledore's earlier attempts to help him, since he was so emotionally ravaged by all the death around him, and the changes his body underwent every month. Only when Dumbledore played the Harry needs you card, was he willing to step back into Hogwarts and receive help.
I like this one.
This! Ask anyone with chronic depression about how difficult it can sometimes be to feed and care for themselves.
True, but we also don't really know if Lupin's apparent improvement was due to better eating. It could simply be that the train ride was very shortly after the full moon, and he was exhausted and malnourished from the ordeal.
@@shawnedwards5369 True. And it also shows that lupin wasn't very good at potions because Snape had to make his anti werewolf potion for him.
It’s also hinted that one of umbridge’s laws made it impossible for him to find a job
When you mentioned that hungry wizards shouldn't be starving if they can multiply food, it made me remember in the Deathly Hallows that Hermione was multiplying fish and bread when they couldn't forage any other food while in their quest for the Horcruxes. The problem that was raised with that is whenever she cast Gemino to copy the food, it only produced a lesser copy with little to no nutritional value, so although they had full bellies, they were still very much starving which severely hindered Ron's recovery and lead to them all being irritable, pale and malnutritioned on top of the corruption of the Horcruxes. I do not believe it is a plot hole that Lupin would be as hungry as he was even if he was using Gemino to multiply his meals with that in mind.
Yep and I assume that most of what little income he earned went towards buying wolfbane potions, so it's likely he didn't have much left over to purchase groceries. And I imagine most places like bars or restaurants would be less inclined to let a werewolf eat in their establishments. Thus limiting his options.
Multiplying Fish and bread like the feeding of the 5,000. Pretty interesting on JK
I'd still kina say there's a plot hole bc can u not just transfigure plants into whatever u wanna eat and even if u use the argument they change back to plants I mean hey its edible nutritious o ly problem ofc wud be eating leaves sux lol but I mean u transfigure it into idk a whole mf roast lol
I was thinking to mention the lesser value food copies as well
It also explains Ron's persistant eating at Hogwart's which always irritated Hermione.
Hermione:"Do you ever stop eating?"
Ron: "I'm hungry"
The Weasley's have food so they probably multiply it to make it go round everyone.
The food at Hogwart's wasn't multiplied it was prepared in the Hogwart's kitchen by the Elves. It was transported from the Hogwart's kitchen.Gamp's Law that you cannot create something from nothing. Suggests that by dulpicating food you still have the same calories and nuitrition but spread over a larger amount of food. So Ron is hungry at home and takes maximum opportunity to eat while he is at Hogwarts. Hermione from middle class Muggle family doesn't have the issue of food as she is well fed at home and also like most teenage girls is very weight-conscious so only eats the minimum of what she needs to maintain her health. So when she sees Ron's incessant eating she is appalled!
Gamp's Law also expalins about Horcrux's. You can divide your spirit but each part will take a part of the complete whole. Voldemort's plan to divide his spirit 7 ways in an attempt to become invincible actually weakened Voldemort significantly, also the fact that one of the Horcrux's was accidentally in Harry. As much as it tormented Harry it alo gave him an insight into Voldemort's mind.
Honestly, I wonder if the Weasleys weren't just really bad at money management. Instead of putting some aside, they spent all 700 galleons from the lottery on one single trip. And, in first year for Ron, they bought Percy both an owl and there brand new pairs of school robes as a reward for being made prefect. If they'd just gifted him the owl, they would have enough money to buy Ron a brand new wand. So, were they actually poor, or just really REALLY bad at money management and budgeting? 😕
If all they could afford was either one school robe or one wand, there is no management that unfucks this situation
My point is, they bought Percy three new sets of robes on top of an owl. The owl is the reason Ron gained Scabbers. But, if they'd just given Percy the owl, Ron wouldn't have needed Charlie's old wand. Having a wand not meant for him is one reason why Ron was really bad at magic in the beginning.
@@kas1680 How... How did you miss the 700 galleons part, exactly?
@@Synthesid the dude that made the original comment referred to Ron's first year and the lottery happened in year 3, but maybe I'm just confused
@kas I talked about the 700 galleon trip first, then the first year shopping. The Weasleys just were bad with money.
I think that Lupin being hungry is a misdirect. We learn later that he had been a werewolf the night before he went on the train and Harry doesn't know that when he thinks about how it looks like he's starved. Maybe being a werewolf and not feeding even creates a deeper more ravaging hunger, that remains even when you turn back to a human. As for the state of his clothes, I think that's in part due to his isolation. No need to look good if you live all alone. Don't get me wrong, he was probably pretty poor by wizarding standards, but poverty was not his main problem.
Very true. His shifting probable takes a lot out of him. I always thought his health issues because of that. And when you are depressed you tend not to take care of your apperence.
I think that turning into a werewolf is a huge caloric drain on his body, while not having steady work due to his condition is a drain on his finances, and the stress of worrying about turning into a werewolf is a drain on his mental health. Turning into a werewolf also wrecks his cloths on a monthly basis. Bored werewolf Lupin can't get out and do werewolf stuff so he turns his attention on the objects in the room he is trapped in. He shreds the couch, rips up the robes, and chews up shoes like a dog would. Why buy nice things when Ahole werewolf you is going to destory them if you don't let him do murder once a month.
@@kellharris2491 Think Incredible Hulk, looks good, but the jeans and the shirt are in ruins after LOL. Plus you turn green from depression too LOL. I had to, sorry. Trying to make something out of a make believe alternate laws of physics is funny to try. She wants Ron hungry in book 7, so all you know from 6 other books is overwritten LOL. But I got into it myself so I'm as bad as the rest here.
If Molly had Etsy, the Weasleys would be the richest family in the story
or a depop account 😂
Etsy didn't exist when the books were set, and access to the internet wasn't a common thing outside of government and research institutions. The World Wide Web was only talked about as a thing when I was in my third year at secondary school and that was in '94, and most people didn't have it.
Who's Molly
@@craftyhobbit7623 so what? it was just an idea. bet you're fun at parties mate
@@oksuree mrs. Weasley
I always thought Lupin looked sickly and emaciated just because of his condition, not because he couldn't even afford food. But yes, he couldn't keep jobs too so money must have been pretty tight. To what extent it is not clear.
I always thought wizards from Muggle families would still have so much to learn after leaving Hogwarts and integrate more into wizarding society. For example there are no classes for Culinary magic so anyone not from a wizard family who had not cooked with magic before would be at a disadvantage. I often thought of Mrs Weasley teaching Harry and Hermione in the Burrow how to cook via magic.
One thing that isn't explored much is the diversity of the wizarding economy. Muggles buy cookbooks, i'm almost certain wizards can buy home making spell books.
I also thought the wizards with Muggle background could actually benefit A LOT from making easy money by using magic in real life to making easy magic money in wizard world by implementing Muggle skills that wizards obviously lack. That would make wealthier than "pure" wizards and would cause a recentiment that lead to social base of Death Eaters, and that could make the appearence of Voldemort and popularity of his ideas very logical.
@@f-man3274 Having a foot in both worlds would be a huge economic advantage. Imagine working as a muggle courier if you can discretely apparate across town or across the country. Grafitti removal service. Locksmith. House cleaning. Repairing nonmechanical stuff. Tailoring. As long as it's something the customer won't actually see you doing, you could get it done in a fraction of time and effort.
@@iesika7387 Thereby possibly exposing the magic world. "Nah we're better off left to ourselves." In my mind the Weasleys for example sold eggs at that village to get other types of food that wasn't in that garden maybe. But doing too much was probably illegal. My thoughts anyhow.
@@iesika7387imagine being a wizard eith godly powers and working as a courier.......
Imperio some millionaire and make him given some lol. No one gonna know anyway
I have another thing that makes it weird for Lupin to be living hand to mouth.
At one point in the books, it makes a statement about Hermines parents exchanging their muggle currency for wizard currency. If so, couldn't Lupin just worked a muggle job, had a schedule where he was always off those "special" days, no matter the cost.
He could just exchange the currency or even better, just buy muggle food. Besides certain items, ingredients or treats, the magical and non-magical world seem to eat the same food.
I was thinking this but most wizards don't know how to function and live everyday life without magic. My guess is that it would be extremely hard for Lupin to hold down a muggle job.
@@tiaragoodman2439 He wouldn't have to "live without magic." He'd just have to not use it in front of other people. It seems there are lots of jobs in which being a wizard would be a major advantage. You could be a deliveryman, for example: use aparition to get things there faster than anyone else can. I mean... _maybe_ there are legal limitations by the Ministry of Magic on wizards doing this, but we never learn of any.
@@harringt100 I have wondered in the past why wizards and witches don't get muggle jobs, they could be so good at them because they'd use magic .
I think it would still be hard for him to hold down a muggle job. For one the taking off at least one day every month would eventually get suspicious even for muggles. Londons average sick leave is about 5 days per person per year. He could maybe use pto as it appears the UK requires employers to give employees at least 28 days of pto if you work 5 days a week but again it may be found to be off if he took 2-3 days off every month. This is also assuming he only needs 2-3 days off every month and not more, I don’t think an exact number is stated in the books how many days he’s out “sick”.
Say he did manage to work out his leave every month, with Londons current cost of living and minimum wage he’d have to work the maximum of 48 hours a week every week. He wouldn’t have the qualifications to work anything else in the muggle world.
We don’t hear about adult expenses in the books but there has to be a way to buy land and houses so I imagine there’s mortgages and rent in the Wizarding world and let’s assume food cost the same between worlds.
So he’d save money on things like electricity, muggle technology, gas and garbage pick up. However he would need to purchase his potion that he takes the week up to the full moon and considering it is difficult to make and not many people are willing to make it, that in itself would cost a pretty penny.
So even if he did work at a muggle job I think he’d still be living hand to mouth.
@@MelanieButera he could take off each month of he used a memory charm on his employer.. not saying thats the most ethical thing but..
I always assumed that Lupin looked so shabby, tired and worn out not because he hadn't been eating, but because the transformations took so much out of him. And that Harry, not knowing that Lupin was a werewolf throughout most of the 3rd book, just assumed it was the lack of meals that made him look so worn out.
I also assumed that the quality of the food lessened for every time you multiplied or enlarged it.. Like the energy/callories/nutrition it contained remained the same, it just got divided/watered down in a way every time you multiplied the food, so you'd have to eat twice as much of it, if that makes sense? I don't know why I've always assumed this, maybe I read it in a fanfic or something..
It says in book 7 when ron, Harry and hermione were in the woods. You are exactly right. Hermione does it to fill their stomachs but its not very nutritious.
yeah, but wouln't that theory be contradictet by the fact, if i remeber correctly, that in the half blood prince, harry uses this spell to fill the almost empty glasses of ale that hagrid and slughorn drank up again and again, and they did get more and more drunk. so the effect may "water down" a little, but still have a major effect. like a 5% ale having only 3% etc. but that still would be a major advantage in food. like yes it could be that the original meatloaf for example has a total of 100 grams of protein, but the second one still has like 70. Still a good way of saving money if you do it all the time.
@@blackeaglenrzero8607
That is true if you have a meatloaf but as they only had toadstool stew I don't think it`s very nutritious or tasty for that matter
Enlarging food might decrease the nutritional value / taste. But you can also just like.... transfigure a rat into a steak. It's the same base materials. Walk past a dumpster somewhere, accio yourself a bunch of rats into a box. Turn 'em into steaks. There are a ton of things that are edible but not pallatible that could probably be easily transfigured into tasty food.
@@iesika7387 a rat doesn't have enough fat for a human to live off of, it's a phenomenon called "fat starvation" or "protein poisoning" meanwhile a steak would have tons of fat on it. Therefore you could not transfigure rats into steak as they are made up of wildly different materials. Not all meat is the same.
I have a theory as to why some wizards didn't took good care of themselves, Lupin might be hungry because he was sick and he simply couldn't eat. When he arrived at Hogwarts his appetize change and he wanted to eat. My guess is that living with the werewolf condition someone might feel depressed and not want to eat or to use magic to fix clothing. I experienced a really bad C PTSD the last month and I can tell you, I didn't want to eat, I was forcing myself, and I had all day nausea. I felt better 2 days ago and suddenly my appetite change like magic, I eat normally now. The psycho physical effects of a sickness are major, I don't think those are necessary plot holes if one can theorize that wizards might be suggestable to psychological issues like muggles.
this is a good theory, also I hope you're okay
Yeah I also think his appearance was due to having to endure the werewolf curse without the wolfsbane potion - he appears sick and exhausted. Maybe even the torn clothes come from that - if the curse surprises you.
And at hogwarts he starts to get better - the good meals and a job that he likes and where he's respected contributes as much as the potion.
@@myatamara thank you very much, I am much better even from when I wrote this. Due to insomnia which herbs didn't fix, I had to take some light sleeping pills which lasted for 3 years. Unfortunately such pills rose my prolactin to really high levels which concerned me deeply, and I stop using them suddenly and my C PTSD got a hell of a trigger. I am just writing this for anyone who might get this information useful. :)
Tonks mentioned not being adept at certain domestic type spells. This was in Order of the Phoenix, when she was helping Harry pack.
Harry and Hermione only got practical exposure to domestic spells for a couple of weeks during the holidays and Molly was a stickler on under age use of magic.
Conclusion: Hogwarts needs a Home Economics program.
Which just shows yet another area where Mrs. Weasley could have earned extra money for the family once her youngest was at Hogwarts. If Tonks and other witches or wizards aren't good at domestic magic and can't afford the kind of home that comes with a house elf there is nothing to say they can't spend some sickles to have somebody like Mrs. Weasley come in for maid service. It really makes me wonder WTF she did with her time once all the kids were out of the house.
@@ashleighelizabeth5916 " It really makes me wonder WTF she did with her time once all the kids were out of the house."
quality protected, naughty fun times with her husband of course.
@@deathsheir2035 yeah but the man does work a full time job ya know?
@@ashleighelizabeth5916 yeah and they also had things to do on their land if i remember correctly in the books they had garden gnomes and chickens maybe she took care of the livestock and honestly they’re probably both so exhausted lol
@@deathsheir2035 no wonder they have so many kids
I think the general understanding is that you can multiply the food you have, but it gets progressively less nutritious and flavorful the more you do so. If I remember correctly in DH, the trio does extend the physical amount of food they have, but they aren't getting enough nutrition despite their bellies being full.
In reality, Rowling didn't make that rule until DH and it was solely to increase the tension between the trio while they had the locket. There was zero indication in previous books of this; the Weasleys were always very well fed, and Ron's mom in fact makes a sauce sprout from her wand at one point. As for making money with magic, I imagine it's like real life: you technically can do it, but it's illegal and there's probably ways of magically detecting counterfeit coins.
maybe there's some magical item that can prevent this, kinda of like the other magical items, it's just that the trio did'nt have this object at the time, so that could explain how the Weasleys are always so well fed
maybe one of the Weasley parents invented this item, though it would'nt help the fact that thier poor
Well we muggles use special paper and ink and machines to produce money that can't be easily falsified at home with a printer, I'd assume that wizard's money somehow shares this aspect of Muggle money, as it's made of something that makes it difficult to falsify with magic. But well, just don't think about it too hard. HP universe requires heightened levels of suspension of disbelief
Like the leprechaun gold coins, that can be used for transactions (people won the money, and Ron "paid" Harry for something with the money) but will disappear after a few hours and can be detected by goblins (there was a scene a goblin was checking gold coins and muttering "leprechaun" somewhere in the books).
I legit thought I imagined that one part about Molly make that sauce from her wand. Every time I brought it up, nobody knew what I was talking about.
Multiplying money would lead to hyperinflation. Likely goblins had a method of checking if an item had been magically created or just manipulated to prevent this and as such, they became the bankers of the wizarding world
You don't multiply money. You multiply a valuable thing. It's called production.
@@bobjohnson1633 that creates the samd problem. Now said valuable object becomes over saturated thus removing any value it once had as anyone and everyone could acquire it cheap.
I feel like I remember Hermione explaining multiplying left the food less filling and nutritious. Which is why Ron had trouble healing in book 7, because they were all malnourished. Rowling tended to equate magic to technology, like it was an alternative. The wizards thought they were superior, and had great advantages, but are often met with limitations just the same. Many were not very good at magic too. This is why Fred and George were so surprised their joke shop turned into government contracts. Author has a wound that magically won't clot or heal, so they resort to muggle bandages. The more muggle friendly wizards remark several times through the series that muggers were starting to have some impressive solutions to thing. I remember gold couldn't be made. Nifflelers were an expensive animal because they could find gold. But Hagrid used a fake gold that vanished overtime to demonstrate. They still have basic needs, magic is difficult, and resources are limited in some regards. Therfore, economy and stratification of it follow.
very well said. anything valuable tends to be rare, and magic acts just like tech:it improves, but it has definite limits ...mabye more importantly, the ABILITY to use and excel at those abilities, is unevenly distributed. if all wizards could 'heal', why need st Mungo's? if money was easy, why need a bank, just enchant or hide it? human behavior was basically the same, just thru a different medium.
But i think you can turn muggle money into magic money like the parents of hermoine did in book 1. so why not multiply gold, sell it to a muggle trader who doesnt know about magic at all, take the real money and turn it into magic money. If it later vanishes in the muggles safe, they wont know why and thus cant act on it.
@@blackeaglenrzero8607 Thats not them magically turning it into gold, they exchanged it at gringotts just like you can turn any currency into another foreign one at that foreign bank. Hermione's parents were muggle dentists remember?
@@blackeaglenrzero8607 The person doing it would be looked for by the aurors, or I'd say that lesser agency. Exposing the magic world, theft, larceny, fraud. I think she does imply that many did do that, or tried doing that. That's why the ministry was even needed probably. Oh and the muggles that suffered from it would have to then get the money back, and memories modified.
@@blackeaglenrzero8607 no, you cannot do it with gold. The only way you could do it is using Philosopher Stone and the only one has been destroyed in book 1. Besides, your money in the real world is actually gold you know? (The bank in each country can only issues money depending on gold on the Reserve. If the government bank issue more money or increase their money worth, your country will face inflation and turn into a case like Venezuela). So, what Hermione’s parents do is just make a simple currency exchange like changing their pounds into dollars. By the way, you can try to duplicate the gold, just like you can try to print money in real life.
Jk Rowling already told the readers that magic cannot solve everything since book 1. Hagrid told Harry that magical world has its problems as well, so people from the two world should just care for their own stuffs instead of relying on magic to do anything. Magic in the book is just a symbolism for privilege. With magic, you will not die from hunger, or die when childbirth or die of not having a place to live. But are you happy when having those privilege is another case (Voldermort’s mother).
There is a systemic rule to all writing: when you write about magic, you advertise as if it could do everything in the world, but actually, it’s just some form of technology. Every fantasy follows this rule. A good magic system is a system with limits.
Travelling in the wizard world sounds a lot more interesting considering you can expand the inside of a suitcase that you create another universe.
I always questioned why his briefcase said Professor RJ Lupin, in peeling gold letters. But he was a new teacher.
I’m sure he just added the professor, and it wouldn’t make sense to make it look all brand new, so he replicated the letters that were already there
Maybe he ripped them up transforming one night
To be fair about Lupin, I believe he was recovering from a full moon transformation not long before the train journey. He looked better not just from the abundant food but also because he was recovering and gaining strength back after becoming a werewolf that month.
House Elves and Goblins could probably do more within the limitations of Gamp's Law, too. After all they have their own innate form of magic that doesn't involve the use of wands, and probably relates to things involving food/cooking and crafstmanship, respectively
@Jake Folk Considering they can apparate into, around, and out of Hogwarts, when no Witch or Wizard Can... So, who says they haven't found some way to bypass the Exceptions to Gamp's Law, and they're the only ones capable of doing such an act?
Joking aside, they work in the kitchens of hogwarts, and clearly mentioned to be cooking, and not conjuring food out of no where. If I read the fourth book properly.
I always assumed Lupin's condition was more about being depressed and feeling bad about himself because of his werewolf status and Dumbledore accepting him and making him a teacher gave him some confidence and hope and so he started to care for himself again.
There is a LOT we don't know, despite all the canon :D Firstly of course, and the easiest, is the Gamp's Law of Elemental Transfiguration concerning food. Probably everyone's familiar with it, and as others have pointed out in the comments even though Hermione tried multiplying the food they already had it was of poorer quality, and that's coming from Hermione who's an exceptional witch. And sometimes we did witness, I think, Mrs Weasley pouring some kind of sauce right out of the tip of her wand, but we don't know the details.
We know that you can make stuff disappear and make them reappear and I always imagined that stuff goes in some freak dimension, Star Trek would say it's shifted out of phase :P so perhaps Mrs Weasley was simply resummoning the sauce she already made and stashed away. That would not violate Gamp's Law. And I guess their currency is protected by magical means just like ours is protected by UV stuff, watermarks and whatnots.
And also, not everyone's good at every spell. Mending, fixing, sewing, cleaning, scrubbing, cooking; most certainly takes skill, I mean they were able to mess up Wingardium Leviosa, imagine how much easier it is to mess up a spell that sews your tattered clothes back together? It's literally like asking someone in your family why they don't pick up a needle and a thread and fix the holes in their socks :) Takes will, time, effort, skill...
To us Muggles magic seems like the universal answer to every problem, but to wizards it introduces different kinds of struggles.
Well said, this is everything I wanted to comment and very well explained.
Reparo.
Ron points out that his mom can do this but Hermione points out that it's not possible to create food with magic only multiply it summon it or change it. It ends their and we never get a full explanation.
I have friends and family with a wide range of economic situation, ages, and importantly: abilities to care for themselves. Sometimes it is not wealth that decides how well you eat or dress or look. And one person might be accepting of a standard of living that would leave another person aghast. Lupin might have had masterful magical abilities but he also showed signs of chronic depression, anxiety, and resistance to interpersonal relationships Those all take their toll on him alongside and related to his werewolf illness.
I always wondered why no wizard studied Physics i know its from the Muggle World but if you understand it the magical applications of it would be insane.
I’m sure over achievers, like hermione probably do go back to muggle schooling if they think they have something to learn. After all, we get the story from the point of view of a kid who isn’t particularly gifted or anything, he was just chosen and therefore chooses to survive. The only people we learn are experimental with their magic, and successful are dumbledore, snape and Flamel; I wish the book went into details as to how they figured these out. We know dumbledore’s a genius but how did he figure out the uses of dragon blood or whatever.
In a way, the muggles also had a vastly superior method of comunication than whatever we saw in the wizarding world (the telephone).
@@lucianofrancesco4742 That is actually not true as during the time period in the books. Phones and the internet didn’t even exists
@@haydenscholze7452 Telephones did exist and I assure you that they are a more efficient method of communication than OWLS.
@@lucianofrancesco4742 Yea my mistake phones exist. But it not like the wizarding world didn’t have superior methods too. Such as transport.
I would also consider the skill required to do specific magic. Much like in real world it might be the case people don't learn / forget more complex spells. Fixing something crude or simple may be easy but fixing patch of clothes thread by thead might be to finicky to most. So you may need to hire an expert to repair clothes, setup "home automation" with brooms and such, and especially create pocket dimensions within walls of house, tent or even a suitcase. Those services would cost a pretty knut
Lupin felt guilty for his lycanthropy. I imagine that, although he could afford to buy food here & there, he likely felt undeserving of taking a resource that would better help another with even less than he. Lupin had a good heart.
Now that you mention it, if Hermione can fix Harry's broken glasses simply by intoning "Oculus reparo" why didn't Remus Lupin conjure himself better clothing? And for that matter, why didn't the Weasley's fix Ron's hand-me-down robes to look new, or teach him the proper incantation? At least poverty could have been masked.
Who's to say what clothes are repaird? They could just revert back to a plant or raw wool
For the matter of “why not just multiply existing gold” - although not explicitly confirmed in canon, I like to think it’s similar to muggle counterfeiting.
Sure you can make duplicates of irl money, but there’s a plethora of security measures in place to prevent this; perhaps the wizard of world is the same?
Like, perhaps the Gringotts Goblins hex/charm every Galleon, Sickle or Knut which authenticates it and counterfeit ones are singled out? 😅
Exactly, the fact griphook can easily tell the gryffindor sword is a fake since it’s goblin made I’m pretty sure they can easily do it with money in general. They definitely aren’t stupid and are super strict, they would be able to tell.
@@clover2739 Just add a step or two. Go to a muggle pawn shop, buy some real gold, multiply it magically and sell it back to the same pawn shop or a different one to recover your costs and make a profit in muggle money. Then take the profits and buy gold you know has not had magic used on it and trade that to the goblins for goods and services. There has to be some cross over between the two economies, at least in terms of raw materials used to produce things.
@@swimmingmide And before you know it, Magical Law Enforcement squad shows up LOL. Then all your misdeeds are tracked down to be reversed. But I'm sure it's the type of stuff Mundungus Fletcher, and his likes were all trying to do every day. Hence even the need for the ministry.
@@dodesskiy1 but why would the ministry care about real gold being traded for fake gold that could not be detected by muggle brokers? Goblin bankers know the difference between real and fake gold but regular bankers do not. Are the ministry devoting huge amounts of time and energy to preventing wizards from enriching themselves in the muggle world? To what point? The more rich wizards the less likely they are to be outed as wizards, the more likely they are to take over political offices that would regulate them in the Muggle world.
The whole thing with Remus being able to buy food is good and all but we need to remember that he probably ha to buy ingredients for his wolfsbane and we know the ingredients are not easy to come across so they’re probably expensive and seen the fact that he didn’t have a safe place to transform he definitely needed it 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️
I don't think Remus was necessarily hungry, it could just be Harry's interpretation of either that it's further from the full moon (perhaps Remus was just recovering when he took the train) or that the Wolfsbane Potion that Snape supplied him with invigorated him quickly and made the symptoms more bearable not only during the full moon but it might have helped the aftermath-symptoms as well. This would then lead to Remus looking healthier the same way a famished person would after a few days worth of square meals
Edit: Saw someone else mention and I wanted to add my support to the idea that Remus is/was depressed and wasn't taking as good care of himself, but when depressed people are given a job and get some inspiration that can result in an upswing in mood and thus of self-care (source: I have depression)
Personally, I always took Lupin's description to be a result of his curse and subsequent low self esteem. Lupin probably suffered from depression and probably didn't take very good care of himself normally. Hogwarts was a much healthier environment for him and meeting and befriending his best friend's son probably did wonders for his mood. Additionally, his health waxes and wanes with the lunar cycle. It's likely that Harry met him during a low point in his cycle.
Simple explanations,
Skill: not everyone can use magic evenly (Case and point, Neville vs Hermione) so it's probably that many witches and wizards aren't skilled enough to repair their stuff so easily
Diminished returns: in many cases it has shown that magical repairs/duplicates aren't perfect or that items are damaged beyond magical repair (Harry's wand was impossible to fix by standard magic, duplicated food had no nutrition, and duplicated items degraded so fast they are considered worthless(Griphook states as such duringthe hiest)) so eventually the repairs/duplicates would wear off faster than they could be cast
Faded magic: magic isn't generally permanent and fades over time, so items created by magic will generally down just like everything else with some exceptions (most of which aren't made from human magic thus out of reach of the standard wizard or witch)
Spell decasting: there are many times where items made of or affected by magic are reverted by anti fraud charms and such, making such items even more worthless than real versions
Another plothole for me is the magic enlargement charm (like the tents and the ministry cars). Wouldn’t that mean that the weaslys only need a very small house but could conjure it very big inside and nobody had to share rooms and they had a lot of space.
The magic enlagement charm must be very difficult. Even Hermine had problems with that charm after 6 years. She had no problem with protean charm but she was not shure about the magic enlargment of an ordinary bag. A big tent, a car or house whould be much harder. If someone like hermine has a hard time with this spell on a small object doing it, there are specialised wizards for this for bigger objects. Durability plays a big role two. If the magic fades and the rooms in a house shrink with people inside it would make quite a mess.
I think that in order to make big place look small, in the first place, you need that big space. So they need make big space with lot´s of things, and make it looks small. You not make a space, just already big space make look smaller. In order to make tent to look small, you need big tent, and then make it look small. Not just make small tent with all the space and things.
That's like saying why would you buy a car when as a human. You have the Internet and knowledge to be able to build one.
@@mryellow6918 its not like that at all wtf
@@TeslaHaxz how is it not?
I always think that sometimes JK didnt think things through that well and she just does things because she wants to and just fill in the plot. Its just that there are millions of fans that have their own ideas and opinions on things. Of course millions will be able to think more than just 1 person but then again we are the ones that are enjoying the stories written by this 1 person
Yup, like 99.9% of authors. When millions of folks are essentially proof reading your stuff, they're going to find even the smallest of plot holes. This is a middle plot hole to me haha
@@oldkingcrow777 exactly
That's called "suspension of disbelief"
people agree to oversee some plot hole to enjoy the story. Plus it is a story meant for kids, so no wonder the economical plausibility of the story isn't a main stake. ^^
@@etienne8110 exactly with all other stuff in the books too. What Jk wanted it to be and how the readers refer their theories from the books. If Jk said she wants it like that then its like that no theories needed
It seems like a very common thing in fantasy and science fiction, where economics is not thought out.
We live in a very capitalist world today, to such an extent that most people have trouble imagining any other form of economics. Many writers fail to imagine an economic system that matches the technology or magic of the world that they build. Maybe it's lack of creativity, maybe they still want elements of economics from the current economic system for relatability.
Harry Potter is essentially a children's series with a very overtly good vs evil storyline in it, so these criticisms may seem more harsh than other works aimed solely at adults.
Interesting fact, somebody looked up the day Harry first met Lupin and it was the day after the full moon. The reason he looked so ill is because of his recent transformation.
A fanfic I read pointed out that Remus could have set up a small little repair shop and use "reparo" on broken muggle things, wait for a reasonable time and then declare it repaired. He could have easily lived quietly in the muggle world doing that and as a shop owner, it didn't matter if he closed shop a few days a month. As long as he didn't become greedy or attempt to fix something that would have raised eyebrows he could have lived rather comfortably.
It's always the economy side of things that screws up world-builders. Unless they get that down,. their world doesn't bear up to scrutiny.
I don't think Lupin was portrayed as especially hungry. It was just one of the many suppositions made as to why he looked ill since the students didn't know he was a werewolf.
Lupin may have been in isolation without access to food prior to joining Hogwarts. Also, I imagine the transformation to/from a Werewolf uses a lot of energy.
I assumed that some wizards and witches were just bad at the spells to make/repair clothes. Fashion doesn't seem to be a high priority for Mr & Mrs Weasley. Replicating food/drink would be particularly difficult and any mistake could have dangerous consequences of food poisoning, taste really bad or has poor nutritional value.
Exactly. Just like the time Ron tried to modify his old-fashioned robes for the ball, and ended with it looking even worse.
The reason multiplication problem enlargement doesn’t alter his intake of nourishment is because the thinner you spread something the less useful it is. If you multiplied the good you might make the belly feel fuller but you didn’t actually take in more nourishment than was originally available. You simply spread it more thinly across the larger amount.
Id like to hear more about gamps law! Also other laws of magic.
They're a bit obscure in the lore. One might have a much better luck searching for more info on them under the broader definition of "weak and obvious plothole cover-ups".
I believe you forgot some other points mention in the books concerning issue about poverty. Firstly, the Weasly, was while less off than other families, didn't stave. It was mentioned in The Deadly Hallows, when the trio were on, that Ron was suffer more than the others because he wasn't used to have meager food, due to both Hogwarts, and Eating well at home. So, the Weasly, while poor, have plenty of food. The fact is the question on how people earn a living in the magical world.
Yeah, the Weasleys didn't starve, which, y'know, food insecurity is a pretty massive indicator of poverty and deprivation. But I'm guessing they were 'poor' in the sense of 'having no cash', for all the things they couldn't grow or produce themselves. Like...wands, robes, school textbooks (I mean, Gilderoy Lockhart's seven books, times five children.).
They're fine in one sense, but they have to make tough choices in other, more externally visible areas
I'd asume basics are very easy for wizards. Like you cant be in an issue to just survive. But things like clothes or books you can't just make probably cost alot.
I always wondered (in addition to many other things) why more wizards didn't just steal muggle money. It's established in the 2nd book that there's a muggle money/wizard money exchange in Gringotts when Hermione's parents needed to make an exchange so they could purchase her school supplies. Even if duplicates muggle money could be identified by the goblins, wizards could literally just use magic to take money out of ATMs or cash registers through a variety of means.
Muggles would notice (we are pretty good at accounting) and so mucking with muggle economics probably violates the International Statute of Magical Secrecy. Or whatever it is called
@@gregoryfenn1462 steal from drug Lords?
I always assumed some 'good' wizards were paid by muggles to protect banks, atms, etc w commonly unknown charms to stop thieving. if it was kept unknown, the wizard to witch would quite at some point knowing it was blocked.(they would figure it was somehow enchanted )
Well yes. Its probably not allowed. But you could offer your service as a craftsmen. To do things like grow food on your farm with magic super fast and then sell them
I can think of two reasons for not multiplying stuff food/ gold
1. Its possible but people don't know the exact spell, hidden so the wizarding economy doesn't face insane inflation
2. Multiplying stuff may lead to it being diluted or worse quality, so regardless of the number of apples the amount of nutrients would be the same, hence Lupin was weak.
A part of the issue might be the wand itself as in some descriptions of Wands Ollivander notes some are better for charms Transfiguration etc etc for example Helga Hufflepuff was particularly gifted with food charms, another could depend on the intelligence of The Wizard or witch and simply forgetting what they learned in school after all everybody at Hogwarts takes defense against the dark arts but only few become aurors and could potentially crap themselves in the presence of a dangerous creature
answer: Rowling pretends to be a lot smarter than she is and her work has as many plotholes as the bible itself
So much this.
And then she debunks all the good fan theories when she clearly doesn’t have an answer herself
When Remus Lupin is introduced on the train what was the timing in the lunar cycle? That could be a partial explanation for his physical appearance.
Apparently, it was right after his time of the month, so he was all wrung out like a dirty dishrag
As far as money is concerned, I think that only real material is considered real money, and goblins (and wizards with a spell) can tell if it is fake, or created in some way by a spell. The only exception is the philosophy stone which changes things at an atomic level, meaning it does become real gold.
I thought the first meeting of Lupin was the day after a full moon so the real reason he looked like death eating a cracker was him recovering from the night spent running around as an angry wolf person.
"Today we are going to be discussing wizarding economics..." This is precicely the sort of thing the Internet should be used for. Thank you for doing what you do
My thoughts exactly. But then she needed to starve Ron so he'd leave them. So the Gamp's law comes into play. People make way too much of the fake magic mechanics. It was all meant to be about friendship, love, overcoming his bad side by Ron.
It seems pretty easy to explain, though: magic requires casting spells that may require energy to be maintained. When the spell caster stops using their energy for the spell, it wears off. Shabby clothes look shabby again. Transfigured food becomes what it once was - which could be very dangerous once eaten.
I like the explaination that was proposed in the fanfiction Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, when McGonagall gave her first transfiguration class. It was just about that 🙂
The explanation for expanding food is it goes further (solves hunger) but the nutrition doesn't expand. Think of it like putting sawdust in bread. Of course even a marginal wizzard could steal food from Muggles. It takes an exceptional alchemist to transform items to gold; only 1 example in hundreds of years. Cleaning clothing isn't difficult (ex: dusting robes after flue travel) but self-repairing cloaks require spells. Madam Malkin sold self-ironing and self-repairing robes.
Why didn't Lupin get a muggle job? Just doing paperwork or something? Like it might become a running joke that he's always ill on a full moon but why would anyone work out he's a werewolf (although they'd probably joke it) and we know Gringotts convert muggle money to wizard money!
Could we have a video about how Hermione and muggle borns manage to buy things in the wizarding world? just thought of that q!
I mean… they just go to diagon ally through the leaky cauldron and then they transfer their muggle money. I’m sure someone will be there with hagrid with Harry to show them how to get in at first.
They convert their muggles currency into wizarding currency
I always thought things that were multiplied wouldn’t stay that way for long. Like in bellatrix vault. Also like they show in GoF where the leprechaun gold vanishes after an a amount of time there’s clearly ways to bewitch money. So to me, goblins could have anti duplicate/multiply spells on all the coins. These plots holes never really bothered me though. In the books spells and charms are different than the movies. I’m sure in the book universe you need certain ingredients and or potions to duplicate things. Which those ingredients cost, you guessed it, money.
For Remus the suggestion is that he didn’t use magic after Sirius “betrayed” the potters and that it’s his mental health that makes him poor and malnourished as well as being a werewolf as opposed to a lack of money
They said part of the rule of multiplying food was that you could make more but it lost nutritional value and substance as you did, so you could say have one fish and turn it into 2 fish, but eating one of those would be like only eating half of the original fish
I think it's more complicated for Remus. I think he would forget to eat. I have a friend who does this. Not sure if Remus puts much value in food but around people I'm sure he follows what others do to keep up appearances.
These rules make the wizarding world less magical
Hard disagree. For me having some rules that magic follows, and thus allows the reader to follow along and predict, makes magic feel like a tool that can be used to solve problems in clever and understandable ways. Completely soft magic systems, like in Lord of the Rings, makes magic out to be a deus ex machina that does whatever the plot needs it to. Not that there's anything wrong with that inherently, but it doesn't work as well in a story about going to a magic school to literally learn how magic works.
@@TalonSky Someone is bound to bring up this Sanderson logic in any discussion about limitations on magic...
@@greenguy369 I don't really know what you mean by Sanderson logic?
i would love a video detailing gamps law!! i love magical theory, pls do deep dives on the way magic functions, its super interesting
just a thought, nothing to back it up
but could it be possible another reason lupin was “poor” is because he spent all of the little money he had on the ingredients of his expensive, borderline necessary, wolfbane potion?
but again, just a neat thought i had :)
Can you please do Is Jesus Christ a Wizard?
Please don’t bring your religious beliefs into the Harry Potter universe.
@@davidkennedy8929 He MAY have been a Wizard in Harry Potter.
@@davidkennedy8929 I could easily see an Atheist posing this same question, since it's all fictional to them anyway.
@@YellowBear-kx1ff the channel Religion for Breakfast did a good deep dive into the idea of Jesus being a magi/magician a few years ago. Highly recommend their channel.
@@davidkennedy8929 um Jesus could have been a wizard and then when he got caught doing magic. He played it off that he was a God while doing good with his magic.
That’s what happens when you write an open magic system early in a book. It makes so many plot holes along the way that you gotta find explanation for
One thing to consider, is that magic economy should follow the rules of any other economy. You have certain things (effort, time, knowledge and resources) that you could apply and spend to generate something (a.k.a. to produce), and you have two options: you try to satisfy every need with things you produce, or you exchange it with what other people did. Through specialization and division of labor, the second option is the key to create value: you are good enough at doing something, that you save others from having to do it.
If wizards were part of the general (muggle) population, then it would be easier for them to apply their magical ability to their jobs. But in a society were all the people is magical, everyone else also has the ability to easily do what you could do, so you're limited in what jobs could you perform good enough for people to prefer to pay you instead of doing it themselves.
My biggest issue with this video, it doesn't acknowledge the ability to capitalize on muggle economy. If you are a poor wizard you simply need to work for a small amount of muggle money. Buy muggle food. And then extend that effectivity by multiplying it. Even without the ability to stretch or multiply food. Wizard skill employed upon muggle economies would produce EASY muggle money to buy said food. Wizards don't need wizard food. Just food. Also if wizards can teleport and sumon any kind of raw ingredient when near why wouldn't they be ABLE to apparate, summon (wheat corn produce of any kind,from a farm and replace it or just steal it.) Morals may inhibitor this but Gamps law specifically doesn't inhibate multiplications. So multiply food from a farm for free as far as muggle knowledge goes. And food is no issue. Utilize the muggle effort of production and at minimum double it for wizard production. If making special enhanced clothes the wizard tailor embuses these qualities into said piece of clothing at which point a poor wizard would NOT be able to purchase without making some galleons for it first. Idk wizards should never be hungry or wearing tatty clothes if they simply need a muggle creation of a product to then duplicate for free. Just one over one expansion would facilitate all wizard kind, because there are far less wizards/witches than muggles.
Lupin wasn’t really hungry in the beginning of the year, he only looked that way because he just finished a werewolf transformation
The bigger mystery is: Why didn't rich boy Harry buy his best friend Ron a new wand in their second year, rather than just watching him fail his way through the year? In the end Ron only got a new wand because his parents won a lottery...
Hunger could be a result of werewolfism too. He likely didn’t have access to whatever potion Snape was brewing him
i feel like the reason why remus was so hungry is bc since he’s a werewolf, and we know that on the day harry describes him, it was near full moon and i heard werewolves were hungrier around their transformation
5:58 “You csn increase the quantity of it (food) if you already got some”
So if you have a parcel of food, you have unlimited food
Also if Hermione can use “Reparo” before even attending school, there no excuse in the wizarding world to have “tattered clothes”
If I remember correctly the last book addresses multiplication of food during the stint in the wilderness by saying that the nutrition is constant no matter how much you enlarge or multiply food, all you are doing is bulking the mass, if you get me.
I certainly agree there are some plot holes in terms of how they display poverty in the wizard world. A competent wizard with a functioning wand would be able to keep their possessions perfectly intact, organized, and clean with basically no effort. It would take MORE effort to repair crappy robes by hand and tie together a briefcase than to simply cast a spell to repair those things.
However, whenever magic and money are involved in a story-telling process, I have to assume that there are magical checks in place for counterfeit money. A system of money used by all wizards in the HP universe would HAVE to be universally enchanted as well - each piece would have some kind of identifying spell, or anti-magic spell, or something to prevent its use in the counterfeit process.
The HP universe implies that there is no shortage of precious metals available for use. In the first book, Harry wanted to buy a cauldron made out of solid gold, but Hagrid stopped him from wasting his money. Many other artefacts are described to have been made out of solid gold, silver, or other precious metals. I mean, how many Snitches exist in the HP universe? Those are all made of solid gold as well, even if they are small. Then count in the use of actual gold as a coin... Listen, they have lots of the stuff.
So why are galleons, sickles, and knuts so important? Because they can probably only be made one way, and they probably aren't even made by wizards - goblins are more likely to be the group that mints new currency, since they already regulate the banks.
The multiplication of existing stuff is a broken ability, there is essentially no concept of resource from that point on.
I prefer to interpret it as you just cant create it period. You always have to "steal" it from somewhere. It would explain why Lupin is so poor, he has high morals that would prevent him from duplicating his food as he would fear to put somebody else in trouble. Also money (gold and silver pieces) is probably protected by a bunch of super secure counterspells.
I think Lupin wasn't hungry at the start of the books, I think his appearance was tied to his werewolf curse. Take into account that we experience the wizarding world through Harry Potter's eyes, and at the start of Prisoner of Azkaban, Harry is completely unaware of Remus Lupin's werewolf condition.
The overall underlying problem is just that magic is supernatural. The supernatural can never be truly balanced and without flaws, or at least creating a supernatural universe that has no possible logic holes is near-impossible. I mean we haven't even fully figured out our own world yet, how are we then supposed to think up a perfectly logical fictional one?
Well the most remarkable thing to me is that regardless of their capabilites they choose to completely seperate themselves from muggles. A wizard with the repair spell could quit easily make tons of money in the muggle world and there is an exchange for muggle currency, and thats a spell a first grader could master with out any training what so ever. There are numerous other spells that would make big coin if used properly. Its to my knowledge nowhere mentioned that its forbidden to work in the muggle world, you only have to keep magic a secret and thats easy you just have to choose a profession where you dont work under the eyes of others. Like making pottery, repairing stuff, duplicating stuff where its possible and not noticable. They choose to dont do that because of ideology, which is kinda fucked up.
Gamp's Law: *exists*
Philosopher's Stone: "merely a suggestion"
Skip the conjuring or duplicating food part. Imagine how much easier farming and raising animals would be with magic replacing manual labor.
One possible explanation for Lupin being ill-fed when Harry meets him the first time is quite simple: How long before the trio met him on the train was his last job? If it's been more than a week he certainly has an excuse for looking hungry and ill.
This really contrasts with other fictional worlds, like that of The Witcher. It makes more sense what a magic user in a world with a “soft magic” system would likely be long-lived and wealthy if they didn’t make the wrong enemies.
The problem with multiplying food comes with the fact that the food amount increases but the nutrients from the original portion is not increased, just spread out amongst the guantity of food. Hermione states this in the deathly hallows when she duplicates food for herself, Ron, and Harry
I never thought Lupin was poor. I assumed his appearance was do to him being a werewolf. He's sickly looking either due to the uncontrollable transformations, or due to the potion he takes to stop the transformations. Even in the wizarding world werewolf's are outcast, so he would assumably move around a lot and travel light. And with the constant traveling and wolfing out, his clothes are bound to get tattered and torn, and magic can only do so much to repair and clean them. Or maybe I read way to far into things lol
There is plenty of wild food like fish. Why couldn't a witch or wizard use a spell to catch fish or forage veggies and herbs? While stealing potatoes is theft, certainly a spell in the middle of the night could harvest them without leaving any trace of the act.
Not sure if I missed it, but any reason why you couldn't just "multiply" money and then buy what you needed from that? In addition, If you can summon food from a known location... then you could summon all of your groceries from the parking lot of a store or summon a meal from a restaurant. It's stealing, but it's an option.
The perception of Lupin's condition is overlooking how close they were to the full moon.
I think Lupins robes can't be fixed magically because they were damaged by a werewolf, same as curses can't be magically fixed. Also Lupin probably wasn't eating properly as it was a full moon.
Another important thing to note is this:
Gringott's bank operates exactly in the manner of a child's vision of how a bank works.
When you're a child, you have this vague notion of grownups going into a big, shiny building and after some boring conversation, they sometimes emerge with handfuls of shiny or crinkly currency.
So, you imagine that every person has a personal vault where all this currency is stored and then withdrawn.
At least, that's how I thought banks worked when I was a young boy.
But then you grow up and learn that the amount of physical currency in the world is actually very limited compared to the amount of money.
In a real bank, your money in your bank account is really just a number stored in ledgers and/or extremely secure computer software. When you withdraw money, numbers are deducted from your total and the equivalent amount in currency is handed over to you.
Alternatively, when you buy something, you can simply transfer money by having the bank lower the number in your account and adding that number to someone else's account, without any currency involved at all.
But Gringott's? Nope, it's a child's wonderland bank. Every single wizard in the UK has their own individual vault, and the money in their "account" is literally the amount of currency physically sitting in the vault.
This implies that goblins must be minting coins almost continually in order to keep the currency supply in tally with the money supply, because in order to have savings, currency must sit inside the bank vault.
So where is all the gold, silver and bronze coming from to mint all of these coins, I wonder? Either the coins are fiat, say, something worthless like copper coated with a thin veneer to look like gold or silver etc. or the Gringott's goblins have their own philosopher's stone but keep it top secret.
Customers can also use their vaults like security deposits and store any valuable objects inside them, which does make one ask: does Gringott's add interest to accounts, and how do they calculate the combined value of coinage and other security in someone's vault?
It makes the head boggle!
I will cave into temptation in this instance and digress away from the Harry Potter universe into the Disney universe. Early in the dialogue from Bedknobs and Broomsticks, the main character portrayed by the dear departed Angela Lansbury besides the line about how “even the most accomplished of witches cannot make money appear out of thin air. Have you ever heard of a rich witch?“
But they CAN perform muggle tasks infinitely faster, eg cleaning or automating machine processors or repairing glass and textiles. So they could easily do a muggle business going into homes while the family is out on holiday or work and maybe clean their house or fix their plumbing. For a basic witch or wizard this would be piss easy muggle money, which can eother buy food or land or be exchanged for wizard money (as Hermoine's parents do exchange muggle money for some galleons)?
As far as money goes, anything that can be replicated couldn't be used as currency. That's why so much effort is put into making it hard to counterfeit bills.
Doesn't Hermione say in book 7 that multiplying food lowers the quality, so you have more, but it's worse, the nutritional value stays the same. So
I believe wizards are unable to multiply gold because it is goblin made, goblin made products are immune to magic influence
These were actually addressed in _Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality._ Transfiguration, unlike in canon, *_is not permanent_* and will always eventually go back to its original form, but with a tiny bit of mass missing from having been separated in the normal course of things. Transfigure wood into food, then when it turns back, splinters in your blood. (It's also explicitly forbidden to transfigure a living target because they won't live long afterward, so the teacup rat scene from canon doesn't exist in HPMOR.) As for wizarding money, it's made exclusively by the Gringotts goblins, and they seem to perfectly be capable of detecting forgeries. If a wizard brings them raw metal, the goblins are willing to mint legitimate wizard coin for a nominal fee. (Harry immediately does the math: sell galleons to muggles at gold prices, buy silver, have Gringotts forge sickles from the silver, exchange for WAY MORE galleons than you started with, 50 GOTO 10 until filthy rich.)
A video on Gamps Law would be great
I'm more surprised some witches and wizards didn't just go and manipulate the muggle world to become ultra wealthy there. Like yeah, they won't have as much wealth in the wizarding world, but you'd think there'd be a form of exchange rate between muggle and magical money.
I never understood why you can't just multiply muggle money and live in their world, or at least get food from them. Or become a 'magician' for money there, or just imperius curse someone into giving them money if they're that desperate too.
Mr. Weasley just couldn't resist pimping out that Ford Anglia with golden rims.
I think not being able to produce food is just a plot device, with its own plot holes. If they can transfigure something into a plant, surely they can transfigure it to be an edible one. They have also been shown to be able to transfigure inanimate objects into animals, which could also (unfortunately) be killed and eaten. Maybe, for some reason, they can't transfigure a ready meal, but surely some extra charms after the transfiguration would work. Besides, they also have the aguamenti spell, which is "creating something out of nothing" or at least using the already existing chemical composition of the air to condensate hydrogen and oxygen from the environment into water
As a huge fan of the series , I feel the need to add to this; major fans (myself included) love to create explanations and cononical reasons why certain aspects of the series are the way they are.
However, I implore everyone who calls themselves a true fan, those impacted on a personal, developmental level in their youths, to return to the series and re read it anew. A lot of the world building IS silly, and if we are all being honest, what a child imagines a governing body and society as a whole to be.
Axioms to move this argument forward; there is a magical community that can teleport instantly almost anywhere. They write letters delivered by owl.
As long they have an amount of a substance they can continually make more.
They can transfigure substances and objects into other objects
Yet, they are somehow NOT a post scarcity society? There are well off and poor wizarding families. Some wearing shabby hand me down clothing. What?
Time turners exist; functionally making this community at least four dimensional entities.
But that is not the point of this story. The point was “love conquers all”
“Friendship and camaraderie can achieve more than an individual alone, each of us has our strengths and shortcomings “
I.e “ape together, strong”
And that any one individual can be great…yet terrible.
It’s not our circumstances but our choices that make us who we truly are
If we really invest our souls into why or why it doesn’t work objectively we lose the ultimate LITERARY point. The series worked because it challenged youth readers to grapple with some actual philosophical issues.
Neville was commended for standing up to his friends which, as noted by an elder knowledgeable figure, is a great deal harder than standing up to your enemies.
If circumstances had been slightly different Neville (wtf) could have been the “chosen”one.
That the individual who received the only other feather from this particular phoenix as their wand core committed , “Great things; terrible, but great”
That the only difference between our protagonist and ultimate antagonist boiled down to the ability to recognize the difference between mutual respect and admiration that leads to genuine friendship AND greed driven by ambition leading to superficial relationships that lead to individualistic success
Harry rejected Draco’s hand in friendship because he saw that this individual only viewed him in a “how does this guy benefit me?” Mentality
In a flashback in the fifth book Tom riddle betrays hagrid RATHER than make a friend for the OPPOSITE reason
In the sixth book dumbledore laughs at the test to get to lake of the dead protecting one of riddle’s horcruxes, remarking, “how crude”
….
Something about how he, Tom, believed personal injury and death were the ultimate symbols of weakness.
It never made sense to me that Harry had stacks and stacks of gold coins, literal piles of it and the weasleys had 1 coin, and he never thought to share his.
I think that Lupin wasn’t hungry, but was dealing with the effects of his transformations into a werewolf every month. He looked better at Hogwarts because Snape was giving him the potion. Even though he had not been at Hogwarts long enough to need the potion to keep him from transforming, it was already having an effect on him. Harry just assumed it was because he was feeling better because he was eating better.
I think this concept was either not thought about, or discarded and left alone to make the story more relatable