"They're painting a rainbow on their door and hoping the spirit of the age will pass over then." Very insightful and absolutely correct. This was a great conversation, gentlemen. Thank you both.
Seth Gruber is amazing! Definitely a champion for life! Thank you both for NOT backing down and holding leaders accountable! God had called us to be bold & brave!
There are tried and TRUE Biblical ways to prevent abortion and unwanted pregnancies. Biblical morality, chastity, and no sex before marriage. It's difficult, but it CAN be done. "The Christian ideal has NOT been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult; and left untried." GK Chesterton
I came out of JD Greear’s church & can attest to their complete lack of willingness to support our crisis pregnancy centers & standing for life. Oh, we’d do backpack drives & send people all over the world, but NOT support local lifesaving ministries! Bishop Wooden at Upper Room Church is another amazing pro-life star!
@@conceptualclarity he was much too nuanced to state it that way but we noticed a shift in his preaching and the true Gospel was not central to the message. He preached compassion for everyone except the babies in the womb.
@@katherinecornette5315 He did say in his 2014 sermon plainly that it is the duty of Christians to "support the LGBT community." I think most people would understand that when he said that he was saying that Christians should support gay rights laws. The so-called LGBT community is a political community united by impenitence about deviant sexual behavior and openly seeking to utilize government to destroy religious freedom in order to exalt their preferences. I think it should have been clear when he said we must "support the LGBT community" that was not the same thing as saying we must love and witness to human beings who are caught up in same sex attraction and deviant lifestyles.
My Church hasn’t said boo about the overturning of Roe V. Wade...not even a praise to Christ?? Not promoting “beating our chest” but by not stating the obvious, to me, is a red flag.
I'm only 15 minutes in. First time learning of Seth. I'll be honest. I never dreamed abortion would be controversial among professing CHRISTIANS. No one who supports murdering children can possibly be a follower of Christ. Such people are unregenerate. I honestly can't deal with this stuff anymore. I waited days and days for SOMETHING from my church. When the Chauvin verdict came, there was a video I think the same night! But this? Crickets, for days. And then I finally got an email that I was going to answer that same moment and then I restrained myself because I was so angry. Nonsense about "complexity and nuance" of the issue and, the "important concerns of those who are upset about this decision." WHAT?! I still haven't responded to it and I don't know if I should. But how can I stay silent? And then the next week they're announcing some even with that Jackie Hill Perry woman! I'm at a loss.
May the Lord bless you in finding a better church. When your pastor demonstrates stronger emotional identification with the supporters of abortion than with the innocent unborn children he has gone a long way towards revealing his true heart and spiritual condition. If you do leave, be sure first to have a private conversation with your pastor expressing your concerns
I am an abolitionist, all abortion is murder and needs to be done away with. However, this is an amazing movement in the right direction, with Roe V. Wade being overturned, I literally cried! I pray, as do my kids pray, that abortion will become completely illegal. I am so grateful to God for what happened but I pray it gets completely banned.
Seth is my favorite guest you've had! His articulation of Keller's voting/slavery argument verses abortion was absolutely brilliant. Thank you Jon and Seth for your passion and commitment to this issue.
I was just considering the book of Esther as I finished listening to this broadcast. She had the option of staying silent, but her cousin warned her that being so would result in her own destruction. However, she does not attempt to slay Haman herself or have it done, but rather she takes incremental steps to achieve her ends, first fasting, then two banquets, and finally the appeal that the people be able to slay their enemies. Abortion was brought in overnight, but we should not expect to see it destroyed overnight. There are thousands of battles that are to be fought in the days and years ahead. In some places, we may win, not by a blatant ban, but through such regulations as will make the operation of such butcher shops untenable. Perhaps in other locations we can make the requirement so early as to eliminate the reality of abortion, even if it remains "legal". While we do this, we should not be hesitant to confront the issue at every turn and show people the devastating reality of abortion.
As to "how do the abolitionists view the overturning of Roe," you could listen to Jeff Durbin a bit--he's pretty clear that he celebrates it, while recognizing that there's still lots of work to be done. And it's clear that Gruber isn't on board with the rest of Big Eva on this, but Jon, you know, I trust, what happened in Louisiana a few weeks back, where Big Eva killed an absolutely viable abolition bill. Surely all incrementalists aren't the same, just as all abolitionists aren't, but I think this demonstrates that AHA and the like are justified in being skeptical of the motives of the pro-life industry.
Thank you for introducing Seth Gruber to us! Wow! Love this guy! Keep proclaiming the truth boldly! I’m going to share this interview with a bunch of people.
It is NEVER okay to kill a baby, not from a “whoops”, day after gotta get the plan B pill…to birth and any time after. That is a baby at conception and God will not be mocked. There have been over 60 million precious image bearers of God killed. 2 included my cousins, and one my niece or nephew 😭😭😭 those precious babies deserved to live. I would’ve taken all three 😭😭😭
As an Abolitionist I agreed and found helpful most everything that he said. However, I would say the reason you do not hear a thank you from the abolitionist to the incrementalists is because one of our main slogans has been to ignore roe. The states had the duty before God to uphold the 14th Amendment which guarantees life and liberty to a “person.” So our goal as abolitionists was never to overturn roe v Wade. However it does help stop the pro-life industries hypocrisy in not passing abolition bills. But the overturning of Roe should have done nothing if states would have done their duty before God and ended and criminalized abortion even with roe in place. Roe was never law and was merely a faulty, unconstitutional, court opinion that should have been ignored at the state level.
Sure glad you have a transcript available! Seth talks so fast I would surely miss something if I wasn't reading along with him. Not a criticism, just an observation. Eye-opening and frightening. I have wondered if the lack of real outpouring of celebration for the Roe v Wade overturn might be that it is evident that this is in no way behind us: here in Louisiana where I live, a judge has stayed the implementation of the state's legislation temporarily. And the House of Representatives has already begun to work on legislation to make abortion permissible by legislation. This fight isn't done! It may be just the
Just a lot in leadership who are in fear of man more than God. There is no middle ground on the slaughter of babies for Christians but maybe leaders are not Christians in the first place. We can forgive baby murderers but no forgiveness for our ancestors with the wrong skin color?
This was a blessing and Seth is absolute 🔥. I get so excited and inspired to see such young men who full throatily live and proclaim a ‘Kuyperion’ - ‘Know King but Christ’ in every breath.
Great discussion looking back to Margaret Sanger and the left. The problem with the church has always been because it includes the assembly of both the wheat and the tares. This means that the tares are always listening to the demons. That is why "tradition" has always been a problem. It is human tradition that has let eventually to Rabbinical Judaism as well to Roman Catholicism and it threatens the Protestant church currently.
Call me 'Mr. Naive' because I fully expected raucous celebration, exhaustive commentary and maybe even a message or two on the subject at my PCA church. *There was nothing of the sort.* I am likewise confounded at how tight-lipped the pastors/leaders are. I suspect it is due to their commitment not to delve into politics. However, if you did a poll at my church I don't think you would find anyone who isn't supportive of the recent decision (I could be wrong). Some thoughts: Were all these pastors so tight-lipped when 1) Mr. Obama became president? 2) BLM riots were occurring nationwide? 3) When 'gay marriage' was decided by SCOTUS? Sometimes I wonder if it's mere cowardice, evidence of unspoken leftist leanings or perhaps a calculation to keep their female attendance numbers up.
Pretentious. Pushy. Arrogant. Pompous. Smug. Rude. These are all synonyms of the word “presumptuous”. A word that the ever-winsome John Piper, who weighs virtually every word, used to describe prolifers who would dare to think abortion was deadlier than boastfulness. (Piper, can you point me to where the bodies are that boastfulness killed? And what, specifically, was the method by which boastfulness killed? And should we have laws against boastfulness? And how much boastfulness, if any, could be legal? Can I brag on my grandkids? What would the jail time look like? Or would you make it a capital crime?)
With abolitionism vs incrementalism, it is more about whether the legislation advances the ball. Mississippi passing a 15 week ban advanced the ball, being the basis for the Dobbs case. Florida doing that same policy is wrong as other states have advanced on heartbeat bills, bans, and trigger laws. Thereby making 15 week bans milquetoast.
29 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, 30 and say, 'If we had been living in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' (Matthew 23:29, NASB)
I praise God that this has not been true at our local church. We celebrated the overturning of Roe v Wade but also have actively supported crisis pregnancy centers as far as I can remember. Then again our pastor teaches from God’s Word and is unafraid to talk about the “tough” topics.
Observations: Kellerites would have been completely silent in the face of slavery in the 1850s. Despite their protests, their actions on abortion prove this. Second, the gospel makes no sense apart from the law. The law exposes our sin and shows us our need for Christ.
That is such a weird concept to say that defending life would....hurt my witness. What world do these people live in?? A pastor said that to me regarding meeting in light of the virus. 🙄
At about the 6:50 mark, Jon refers to a video montage of Evangelical responses to the Supreme Court's decision overturning Roe V. Wade that he made, but I have been unable to find it. Can anyone help me locate it? Thanks!
Disappointed with the response about abolition. While I am sure some of these impressions exists, they do not represent the totality of views of the people on the forefront of this discussion. I have no idea specifically who he is talking about. Jeff Durbin has been very vocal and even had a back and forth with Doug Wilson on the very points he cites. The folks at End Abortion Now and Abolish Abortion Texas have rejoiced over the end of Roe V. Wade, why wouldn't we? Rusty Thomas was even found weeping! Why speak about people when you have no idea. There is an incremental approach that is just in abolitionist circles just as there was during the time of slavery. However there is a refusal to codify injustice into law. Therefore a ban of abortion from conception is always the goal, not heartbeat bills, or exceptions. Should we support an iniquitous decree?
Genuine question: was abortion truly abolished in OK thanks to Roe being overturned? I understand that abortion facilities can be closed, but can people still buy abortifacients OTC? And what about birth control? It's an abortifacient as well. Are doctors still prescribing it in that state and others like it? So while we are thankful for abortion clinics being shut down, if these other abortion methods are still available, then there is still more work to do (not the SJW work of expanding welfare, but abolishing ALL forms of abortion). Maybe that is not the case, but does anyone know the answer to these questions?
5:00 excellent point with the prenatal christ. I've not really heard it ever put like that, maybe one other time. Love this guest. I honestly did think we were going to overturn Roe v Wade in my lifetime., But I figured it would be another 10 or 20 years of fighting and lobbying and making videos like this and tweets and preaching and hearts being changed. I didn't think it would be this way. But praise God it is. But this is just stage one of abolition. There's still much work that needs to be done
After hearing this, l think I know why I didn't like your label of "false teacher" or "liberal" of some like Platt or Warren, Jon. But it is because it is not the correct label. But hear me out ... It would be better if instead to say they are walking the road of apostasy and not the one to Emmaus. Keller totally walking that road of apostasy.
Is there any online links where Lothrop Stoddard was an actual part of the concentration camp system in German controlled Southwest Africa. I'm unable to locate one. :)
The evangelicals who responded to Dobbs by saying, "Yes we should celebrate, but not too hard" or "We should love, not celebrate" reminded me soo much of when Obama spoke at the funeral for the fallen Dallas police officers when they were massacred by a sniper. I was a police officer at the time and we were seeing funeral after funeral for cops. Obama goes as the honored speaker at their funeral, basically said, "While we should mourn, let's not forget that we have work to do in how we treat minorities." Could you imagine being a family member of a fallen police officer and the president is echoing talking points of the murderer? I'll never forget it. It was the moment I truly saw who Obama was.
Somehow seeing this for the first time after year after it came out. Anyway, it’s good that Seth is passionate and is pointing out some of these inconsistencies. But he also falls victim to the typical “Democrats have always been bad” argument that has become popular amongst (typically non-southern) conservatives. The Democrats in the 1850s were not “dedicated to lynching and enslaving African Americans.” They were typically American conservatives who were wary of oppressive government and centralization. They opposed radical abolition and tended to support states’ rights. Additionally, to single out Democrats in the 1850s as people who believed that “not all humans are persons,” is to be completely ignorant of the context of antebellum America. For one, proponents of the Democracy were varied in their views on slavery; it was not exclusively a pro-slavery party. Secondly, how did Republicans feel about African Americans as “persons”? Well, they generally didn’t want to give them equal political or social rights, didn’t want them intermarrying with whites, pushed for sending blacks back to Africa, wanted to keep blacks out of the territories entirely etc. So the views of people like Margaret Sanger would fit just as well with those of your typical Republican in the 1850s as they would with anyone else.
I also bristle at the implication that you could only have been a true Christian had you been a Republican in the 1850s. What would that say about some of our greatest southern Christian heroes such as Robert E Lee and Stonewall Jackson? I don’t buy it
Evangelicals seriously need to listen to Nick Cannon about African Americans and abortions in the black community and then consider as to why the clinics were placed in poor communities (loved that the guest pointed out those details). The progressive media is totally defining groups like the Christianity Today and the like... not the other way around. But that has been the trend for last 30 years. Schaefer was one of the few that knew how to do it the other way around. Btw Those remarks at the 19:12 mark about students at Liberty .....my jaw dropped ... Still looking for it..
It doesn't surprise me as a Liberty student myself. There are sincere believers here, but there are also many cultural Christians and non-believers too. And one thing that today even Christians continually fail at is valuing obedience to God over cultural and financial success. I think many parents will overlook sins if they think they will threaten their children's academic and career success less than getting married or having a child might.
@@CuriousGeorge13 I have been saved since 1978..Over 30yrs..I have seen the Church going downhill for a long time..Seen wolves in sheep's clothing come in and brought in another Gospel..Even my church started to change. Really hard to find a solid church that preachs God's word..and the whole council of God's word..Have 2 churches to check out..And praying for starting of home churches. That would be a lot better then these organized churches..they sound worse the our Government.....In the Book called THE COMMUNIST MANIFESTO says that the only way that the communist can take down America is to rid the church of its morality..they could never figure out why they couldn't take it down untill they figured were our beliefs were in.. Christ Jesus..once they disabled the churches and brought in false teachers and preachers they had us..Just look what us happening to the churches..not just one but most....Look who is teaching our kids ..no one says anything..parents turning their kids in the opposite sex..this is called a Depraved mind..Is God Abandoning American....I think so..Is we the Church waking up.???????
@@CuriousGeorge13 To be fair, many Christians feel adrift in their 20’s and college years. Not excusing sin, but I think colleges and campus ministries would do well to remind young Christians about holiness and sanctification. I think sometimes young Christians are not discipled sufficiently, even at Christian institutions.
It seems to me that Keller's avoidance of sermons on abortion for the sake of winsomeness is counter to Reformed theology. If the spirit of God is working, then the person is going to be sorrowful for their sin and is going to be led to repentance. There are other things that guys like Keller and Piper have said that cause me to doubt their understanding of Reformed theology. Else my understanding is off. 🤣🤣🤣
Saying “John” so repetitively makes Seth seem like an annoying politician along with the three fingers okay symbol hand thing. It comes across canned box insincere memorized.
@@692MOM I was at our state capitol every week, got a bill passed with a Senator, and at our abortion clinics daily. Annoying three fingers and saying a person's name repetitively comes across as fake and insincere.
@@smrsmr5403 Great, I am glad you were at the state capital and doing what you did, It is God glorifying!! I just feel its hard to say he was or is insincere. After all he was and is doing the same thing you are doing and has said and done great things for the Lord....Grace and peace.
@Caleb P no. I’m saying there is no evidence that a god did it. And even less than none that it was the Christian god. There is also no evidence that “everything” was even created at all. It’s just as possible that it has always been here.
@Caleb P that’s rich. Theists believe a book that makes claims about things happening which have never again been witnessed by humans….and I’m the one believing in magic.
"They're painting a rainbow on their door and hoping the spirit of the age will pass over then." Very insightful and absolutely correct.
This was a great conversation, gentlemen. Thank you both.
The rainbow over the door for the spirit of the age to pass them by is a great illustration! Thank you for posting this!
“An appeaser is someone who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last…”
That word picture from Seth Gruber about the rainbow on the doorpost is so incredibly astute, I can't stop thinking about it. An absolute home run.
My jaw dropped when he was talking about Christ in the womb at about the 5 min mark! 🔥
Seth Gruber is amazing! Definitely a champion for life! Thank you both for NOT backing down and holding leaders accountable! God had called us to be bold & brave!
There are tried and TRUE Biblical ways to prevent abortion and unwanted pregnancies. Biblical morality, chastity, and no sex before marriage. It's difficult, but it CAN be done. "The Christian ideal has NOT been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult; and left untried." GK Chesterton
The rejoicing from the Church should have been a roar heard around the world...*should* have been.
I came out of JD Greear’s church & can attest to their complete lack of willingness to support our crisis pregnancy centers & standing for life. Oh, we’d do backpack drives & send people all over the world, but NOT support local lifesaving ministries! Bishop Wooden at Upper Room Church is another amazing pro-life star!
How did people respond when JD Greear preached that it's Christians' duty to support gay rights?
@@conceptualclarity he was much too nuanced to state it that way but we noticed a shift in his preaching and the true Gospel was not central to the message. He preached compassion for everyone except the babies in the womb.
I left summit 2 years ago.
@@katherinecornette5315 He did say in his 2014 sermon plainly that it is the duty of Christians to "support the LGBT community." I think most people would understand that when he said that he was saying that Christians should support gay rights laws. The so-called LGBT community is a political community united by impenitence about deviant sexual behavior and openly seeking to utilize government to destroy religious freedom in order to exalt their preferences. I think it should have been clear when he said we must "support the LGBT community" that was not the same thing as saying we must love and witness to human beings who are caught up in same sex attraction and deviant lifestyles.
My Church hasn’t said boo about the overturning of Roe V. Wade...not even a praise to Christ??
Not promoting “beating our chest” but by not stating the obvious, to me, is a red flag.
Thank You Very Much Jon Harris for having Seth
Gruber on as your guest 🙃 🤓 🎯 😎 🙂
I'm only 15 minutes in. First time learning of Seth. I'll be honest. I never dreamed abortion would be controversial among professing CHRISTIANS. No one who supports murdering children can possibly be a follower of Christ. Such people are unregenerate.
I honestly can't deal with this stuff anymore. I waited days and days for SOMETHING from my church. When the Chauvin verdict came, there was a video I think the same night! But this? Crickets, for days. And then I finally got an email that I was going to answer that same moment and then I restrained myself because I was so angry. Nonsense about "complexity and nuance" of the issue and, the "important concerns of those who are upset about this decision." WHAT?!
I still haven't responded to it and I don't know if I should. But how can I stay silent? And then the next week they're announcing some even with that Jackie Hill Perry woman! I'm at a loss.
May the Lord bless you in finding a better church. When your pastor demonstrates stronger emotional identification with the supporters of abortion than with the innocent unborn children he has gone a long way towards revealing his true heart and spiritual condition.
If you do leave, be sure first to have a private conversation with your pastor expressing your concerns
"The idol of cultural respectability". Bingo 🎯. The still-silent shepherds have a problem.
Awesome episode. Thanks John for introducing Seth to me.
I am an abolitionist, all abortion is murder and needs to be done away with. However, this is an amazing movement in the right direction, with Roe V. Wade being overturned, I literally cried! I pray, as do my kids pray, that abortion will become completely illegal. I am so grateful to God for what happened but I pray it gets completely banned.
Seth is my favorite guest you've had! His articulation of Keller's voting/slavery argument verses abortion was absolutely brilliant.
Thank you Jon and Seth for your passion and commitment to this issue.
One of your best interviews/guests. Thank you.
This was a GREAT conversation...that matters!!! Thank you, Brothers!
I was just considering the book of Esther as I finished listening to this broadcast. She had the option of staying silent, but her cousin warned her that being so would result in her own destruction. However, she does not attempt to slay Haman herself or have it done, but rather she takes incremental steps to achieve her ends, first fasting, then two banquets, and finally the appeal that the people be able to slay their enemies.
Abortion was brought in overnight, but we should not expect to see it destroyed overnight. There are thousands of battles that are to be fought in the days and years ahead. In some places, we may win, not by a blatant ban, but through such regulations as will make the operation of such butcher shops untenable. Perhaps in other locations we can make the requirement so early as to eliminate the reality of abortion, even if it remains "legal".
While we do this, we should not be hesitant to confront the issue at every turn and show people the devastating reality of abortion.
This is a great conversation, informative and insightful. Proud of you guys.
As to "how do the abolitionists view the overturning of Roe," you could listen to Jeff Durbin a bit--he's pretty clear that he celebrates it, while recognizing that there's still lots of work to be done.
And it's clear that Gruber isn't on board with the rest of Big Eva on this, but Jon, you know, I trust, what happened in Louisiana a few weeks back, where Big Eva killed an absolutely viable abolition bill. Surely all incrementalists aren't the same, just as all abolitionists aren't, but I think this demonstrates that AHA and the like are justified in being skeptical of the motives of the pro-life industry.
Wow. Seth is great.
Wonderful insights! Profound. Thank you!
Thank you both for this message! So thankful for you guys!!
My pastors in Monterey CA are silent on the SCOTUS Roe decision, and I'm concerned.
Thank you for the episode.
Thank you for introducing Seth Gruber to us! Wow! Love this guy! Keep proclaiming the truth boldly! I’m going to share this interview with a bunch of people.
One of the best videos and guest you had so far
Gruber is such a helpful voice!
I LOVE the quote he uses in the beginning...my dad (my pastor) used it in a sermon a few months ago, and it is just PERFECT for today.
Very edifying, thank you for this episode. Lots of great content from this podcast!
This was a great podcast! Thank you both.
It is NEVER okay to kill a baby, not from a “whoops”, day after gotta get the plan B pill…to birth and any time after. That is a baby at conception and God will not be mocked. There have been over 60 million precious image bearers of God killed. 2 included my cousins, and one my niece or nephew 😭😭😭 those precious babies deserved to live. I would’ve taken all three 😭😭😭
Seth is on point and very articulate . Enjoyed listening to him .
Thank you.
Great interview. Seth was on 🔥
As an Abolitionist I agreed and found helpful most everything that he said. However, I would say the reason you do not hear a thank you from the abolitionist to the incrementalists is because one of our main slogans has been to ignore roe. The states had the duty before God to uphold the 14th Amendment which guarantees life and liberty to a “person.” So our goal as abolitionists was never to overturn roe v Wade. However it does help stop the pro-life industries hypocrisy in not passing abolition bills. But the overturning of Roe should have done nothing if states would have done their duty before God and ended and criminalized abortion even with roe in place. Roe was never law and was merely a faulty, unconstitutional, court opinion that should have been ignored at the state level.
Sure glad you have a transcript available! Seth talks so fast I would surely miss something if I wasn't reading along with him. Not a criticism, just an observation. Eye-opening and frightening. I have wondered if the lack of real outpouring of celebration for the Roe v Wade overturn might be that it is evident that this is in no way behind us: here in Louisiana where I live, a judge has stayed the implementation of the state's legislation temporarily. And the House of Representatives has already begun to work on legislation to make abortion permissible by legislation. This fight isn't done! It may be just the
Just a lot in leadership who are in fear of man more than God. There is no middle ground on the slaughter of babies for Christians but maybe leaders are not Christians in the first place. We can forgive baby murderers but no forgiveness for our ancestors with the wrong skin color?
That was great! Thank you both!
This was a blessing and Seth is absolute 🔥. I get so excited and inspired to see such young men who full throatily live and proclaim a ‘Kuyperion’ - ‘Know King but Christ’ in every breath.
Great discussion looking back to Margaret Sanger and the left. The problem with the church has always been because it includes the assembly of both the wheat and the tares. This means that the tares are always listening to the demons. That is why "tradition" has always been a problem. It is human tradition that has let eventually to Rabbinical Judaism as well to Roman Catholicism and it threatens the Protestant church currently.
A most excellent discussion 👏👏👏👏👏
Call me 'Mr. Naive' because I fully expected raucous celebration, exhaustive commentary and maybe even a message or two on the subject at my PCA church. *There was nothing of the sort.* I am likewise confounded at how tight-lipped the pastors/leaders are. I suspect it is due to their commitment not to delve into politics. However, if you did a poll at my church I don't think you would find anyone who isn't supportive of the recent decision (I could be wrong). Some thoughts: Were all these pastors so tight-lipped when
1) Mr. Obama became president?
2) BLM riots were occurring nationwide?
3) When 'gay marriage' was decided by SCOTUS?
Sometimes I wonder if it's mere cowardice, evidence of unspoken leftist leanings or perhaps a calculation to keep their female attendance numbers up.
One of your best interviews yet (mine's pretty high on the list... (o;)
Seth is just spot-on. Seth: Say 'hey' to Mr. Spencer for me!
What a great Martin Luther quote!
Pretentious. Pushy. Arrogant. Pompous. Smug. Rude. These are all synonyms of the word “presumptuous”. A word that the ever-winsome John Piper, who weighs virtually every word, used to describe prolifers who would dare to think abortion was deadlier than boastfulness. (Piper, can you point me to where the bodies are that boastfulness killed? And what, specifically, was the method by which boastfulness killed? And should we have laws against boastfulness? And how much boastfulness, if any, could be legal? Can I brag on my grandkids? What would the jail time look like? Or would you make it a capital crime?)
Emancipation Proclamation did not free any slave. It was a tactical movement of Lincoln to draw up more support for his unethical war.
always amazing as usual..
“The idol of cultural respectability” - yes, that. It is the Zeus of the Evangelical pantheon of idolatry.
Wow such a great podcast!
With abolitionism vs incrementalism, it is more about whether the legislation advances the ball. Mississippi passing a 15 week ban advanced the ball, being the basis for the Dobbs case. Florida doing that same policy is wrong as other states have advanced on heartbeat bills, bans, and trigger laws. Thereby making 15 week bans milquetoast.
29 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous,
30 and say, 'If we had been living in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' (Matthew 23:29, NASB)
COGIC Raleigh Upper Room was fighting this evil in the 90s. They are great. Pastor Wooten.
I praise God that this has not been true at our local church. We celebrated the overturning of Roe v Wade but also have actively supported crisis pregnancy centers as far as I can remember. Then again our pastor teaches from God’s Word and is unafraid to talk about the “tough” topics.
Observations:
Kellerites would have been completely silent in the face of slavery in the 1850s. Despite their protests, their actions on abortion prove this.
Second, the gospel makes no sense apart from the law. The law exposes our sin and shows us our need for Christ.
Slavery is nothing like abortion, imo.
Does anyone have a Tim Keller tweet celebrating the overturning of Roe v. Wade and the banning of abortion in many states? I've yet to see one.
Tim Keller 🙄. When I started listening to him I thought he was so great...until I started noticing little things that were big things.
@@blairwillis9199 Keller is worse than Osteen because he speaks out of both sides of his mouth.
@@DefenderoftheCross he appears to be a wolf in sheep's clothing. Noticably silent on sin. God knows.
Absolutely! They are not Joshua or Caleb, these guys would have been one of the other 10.
That is such a weird concept to say that defending life would....hurt my witness. What world do these people live in?? A pastor said that to me regarding meeting in light of the virus. 🙄
All anyone needs to know is the commandment not to murder. Period.
At about the 6:50 mark, Jon refers to a video montage of Evangelical responses to the Supreme Court's decision overturning Roe V. Wade that he made, but I have been unable to find it. Can anyone help me locate it? Thanks!
Disappointed with the response about abolition. While I am sure some of these impressions exists, they do not represent the totality of views of the people on the forefront of this discussion. I have no idea specifically who he is talking about. Jeff Durbin has been very vocal and even had a back and forth with Doug Wilson on the very points he cites. The folks at End Abortion Now and Abolish Abortion Texas have rejoiced over the end of Roe V. Wade, why wouldn't we? Rusty Thomas was even found weeping! Why speak about people when you have no idea. There is an incremental approach that is just in abolitionist circles just as there was during the time of slavery. However there is a refusal to codify injustice into law. Therefore a ban of abortion from conception is always the goal, not heartbeat bills, or exceptions. Should we support an iniquitous decree?
Genuine question: was abortion truly abolished in OK thanks to Roe being overturned? I understand that abortion facilities can be closed, but can people still buy abortifacients OTC? And what about birth control? It's an abortifacient as well. Are doctors still prescribing it in that state and others like it? So while we are thankful for abortion clinics being shut down, if these other abortion methods are still available, then there is still more work to do (not the SJW work of expanding welfare, but abolishing ALL forms of abortion). Maybe that is not the case, but does anyone know the answer to these questions?
5:00 excellent point with the prenatal christ. I've not really heard it ever put like that, maybe one other time. Love this guest.
I honestly did think we were going to overturn Roe v Wade in my lifetime., But I figured it would be another 10 or 20 years of fighting and lobbying and making videos like this and tweets and preaching and hearts being changed. I didn't think it would be this way. But praise God it is. But this is just stage one of abolition. There's still much work that needs to be done
After hearing this, l think I know why I didn't like your label of "false teacher" or "liberal" of some like Platt or Warren, Jon. But it is because it is not the correct label. But hear me out ... It would be better if instead to say they are walking the road of apostasy and not the one to Emmaus. Keller totally walking that road of apostasy.
Is there any online links where Lothrop Stoddard was an actual part of the concentration camp system in German controlled Southwest Africa. I'm unable to locate one. :)
@Caleb P It's the way I understood it. It was in the first ten minutes of the video.
The evangelicals who responded to Dobbs by saying, "Yes we should celebrate, but not too hard" or "We should love, not celebrate" reminded me soo much of when Obama spoke at the funeral for the fallen Dallas police officers when they were massacred by a sniper.
I was a police officer at the time and we were seeing funeral after funeral for cops. Obama goes as the honored speaker at their funeral, basically said, "While we should mourn, let's not forget that we have work to do in how we treat minorities." Could you imagine being a family member of a fallen police officer and the president is echoing talking points of the murderer? I'll never forget it. It was the moment I truly saw who Obama was.
Somehow seeing this for the first time after year after it came out. Anyway, it’s good that Seth is passionate and is pointing out some of these inconsistencies. But he also falls victim to the typical “Democrats have always been bad” argument that has become popular amongst (typically non-southern) conservatives. The Democrats in the 1850s were not “dedicated to lynching and enslaving African Americans.” They were typically American conservatives who were wary of oppressive government and centralization. They opposed radical abolition and tended to support states’ rights.
Additionally, to single out Democrats in the 1850s as people who believed that “not all humans are persons,” is to be completely ignorant of the context of antebellum America. For one, proponents of the Democracy were varied in their views on slavery; it was not exclusively a pro-slavery party. Secondly, how did Republicans feel about African Americans as “persons”? Well, they generally didn’t want to give them equal political or social rights, didn’t want them intermarrying with whites, pushed for sending blacks back to Africa, wanted to keep blacks out of the territories entirely etc. So the views of people like Margaret Sanger would fit just as well with those of your typical Republican in the 1850s as they would with anyone else.
I also bristle at the implication that you could only have been a true Christian had you been a Republican in the 1850s. What would that say about some of our greatest southern Christian heroes such as Robert E Lee and Stonewall Jackson? I don’t buy it
How would I even know what an abortion is without RUclips's clarification???
Evangelicals seriously need to listen to Nick Cannon about African Americans and abortions in the black community and then consider as to why the clinics were placed in poor communities (loved that the guest pointed out those details). The progressive media is totally defining groups like the Christianity Today and the like... not the other way around. But that has been the trend for last 30 years. Schaefer was one of the few that knew how to do it the other way around.
Btw
Those remarks at the 19:12 mark about students at Liberty .....my jaw dropped ... Still looking for it..
It doesn't surprise me as a Liberty student myself. There are sincere believers here, but there are also many cultural Christians and non-believers too. And one thing that today even Christians continually fail at is valuing obedience to God over cultural and financial success. I think many parents will overlook sins if they think they will threaten their children's academic and career success less than getting married or having a child might.
@@CuriousGeorge13 I have been saved since 1978..Over 30yrs..I have seen the Church going downhill for a long time..Seen wolves in sheep's clothing come in and brought in another Gospel..Even my church started to change. Really hard to find a solid church that preachs God's word..and the whole council of God's word..Have 2 churches to check out..And praying for starting of home churches. That would be a lot better then these organized churches..they sound worse the our Government.....In the Book called THE COMMUNIST MANIFESTO says that the only way that the communist can take down America is to rid the church of its morality..they could never figure out why they couldn't take it down untill they figured were our beliefs were in.. Christ Jesus..once they disabled the churches and brought in false teachers and preachers they had us..Just look what us happening to the churches..not just one but most....Look who is teaching our kids ..no one says anything..parents turning their kids in the opposite sex..this is called a Depraved mind..Is God Abandoning American....I think so..Is we the Church waking up.???????
@@CuriousGeorge13 To be fair, many Christians feel adrift in their 20’s and college years. Not excusing sin, but I think colleges and campus ministries would do well to remind young Christians about holiness and sanctification. I think sometimes young Christians are not discipled sufficiently, even at Christian institutions.
This guest is on point with pro-life movement
It seems to me that Keller's avoidance of sermons on abortion for the sake of winsomeness is counter to Reformed theology. If the spirit of God is working, then the person is going to be sorrowful for their sin and is going to be led to repentance. There are other things that guys like Keller and Piper have said that cause me to doubt their understanding of Reformed theology. Else my understanding is off. 🤣🤣🤣
Hey Jon, do you remember the name of that pregnancy resource center your wife was in touch with?
Seth talks too fast and I suspect he's a one-trick pony, but definitely worth the listen this one time.
I would like to join Caleb in wondering exactly what you mean by “one trick pony”.
@Caleb P
Speaking too fast is a symptom of his problem; not mine to fix.
@@jackkaspersson7497you're listening too slow. Since when is talking about the things of God called tricks? 🤔
@@tomnassar5884
Since the Garden of Eden, Tom ... since eden
@@jackkaspersson7497 the things of God are called tricks in the garden of eden. Ok nice talking with ya
I'm sorry, but I stopped listening when Mr. Gruber used a euphemism for a foul, disgusting profanity at around 30 minutes.
Saying “John” so repetitively makes Seth seem like an annoying politician along with the three fingers okay symbol hand thing. It comes across canned box insincere memorized.
This is the only thing you got out of this interview???
@@692MOM I was at our state capitol every week, got a bill passed with a Senator, and at our abortion clinics daily. Annoying three fingers and saying a person's name repetitively comes across as fake and insincere.
@@smrsmr5403 Great, I am glad you were at the state capital and doing what you did, It is God glorifying!! I just feel its hard to say he was or is insincere. After all he was and is doing the same thing you are doing and has said and done great things for the Lord....Grace and peace.
This would be more compelling if there was any evidence that a god actually exists.
@Caleb P no. I’m saying there is no evidence that a god did it. And even less than none that it was the Christian god. There is also no evidence that “everything” was even created at all. It’s just as possible that it has always been here.
@Caleb P that’s rich. Theists believe a book that makes claims about things happening which have never again been witnessed by humans….and I’m the one believing in magic.