There's a link to it on this article. baptistnews.com/article/sbc-presidential-candidate-wants-erlc-leader-fired-for-joining-75-other-pro-life-leaders-in-urging-compassion-for-women-who-have-abortions/#.YtC_yWRujGc
“It’s so incongruous to hear those who think that they’re being compassionate toward women-who say, ‘Oh no, we don’t want them to feel guilty. They’re victims. They’re not culpable for the death of their children.’-they think that they’re showing them mercy, but in reality they are putting a road block to the only pathway of mercy and grace that is afforded to them. … The very foundation of the Gospel is the Law of God.” -Tom Ascol
Excellent. Thank you for producing this. I was not aware that the ERLC opposes the criminalization of prenatal murder. Contrasting the SBC’s response to sex abusers really highlighted the hypocrisy of the ERLC’s position on prenatal murder. Well done.
This is a great primer for the next leg of the engagement. Be diligent to share this so we can be prepared for the pitfalls ahead and reform the errors being taught.
Thank you Jeff & the entire Apologia team for bringing this important issue to light. This expose' serves as a good reminder that believers need to pay extra close attention to what the term "Pro-Life" means to the organizations they donate their dollars to and the politicians they elect.
@ApologiaStudios, glad you are calling this out as a heresy using an ecclesiastical definition. Could you provide a consolidated list of the quotes and references from the Didache and church fathers?
Didache (page 4-5, The Two Ways): "This is the second commandment of the teaching. You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not be sexually perverse. You shall not be sexually promiscuous. ... You shall not murder a child by abortion, nor kill a child at birth." I found this and several others with an internet search, including Tertullus (spelling?) and others. Check out Peter's vision of their punishment. I don't recall where I placed them offhand.
Shared brother, thank you. Sadly, I’ve read the recent writings of a local pastor who immediately upon returning from this year’s convention began writing and speaking to assure some belief that there are goodness and right purposes still going forth from the convention which scoffs at the sufficiency of God’s Word every opportunity and in every space they go. Another however, has rallied his people to depart the convention and upon his reasoned and full explanation the over arching issues and even the craziness going on at nearly every level of the organization and amongst its leading voices. It’s so sad to see so many uninformed people who fund the wickedness that’s going in at EC, NAMB, ERLC, and at the seminaries. They’re uninformed and their pastors aren’t warning them… they’re not leading.
I have never understood the sentiment in Christian circles where we agree that abortion is murder, but we excuse the woman for "reasons". Is it murder or not!
All Christians need to examine, and self-examine their motives, words, and actions against scripture and the word of God. Acts 17 verse 11 "Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so."
This is what we need people in Idaho to gain knowledge and understanding on. Representative Brent Crane could use some prayers. He doesn't want the murdering mothers to be punished.
This is a difficult issue, and I am speaking with respect to our secular society and not only the Church. We do sympathize with the plight of the mother who feels abandoned, all alone, and wondering how she will raise and provide for the child within her. If we are going to legislate that this mother MUST carry that child to term, then we must, as a society, be willing to come alongside her and assist her throughout her pregnancy. But not only do we want abortion to end (with certain very limited exceptions), we also want the NEED for abortions to end. This is going to require a massive shift of paradigms in our society and, most likely, in our laws. It won't happen overnight, and if you try to instantly legislate it, we are in for a bitter struggle for many years to come. Young women must be educated in the reality that if they demand choice over their own bodies, then those choices may have consequences they may not like, as well as legal responsibilities. If, for example, they demand to have promiscuous intercourse without protection and/or contraception, then they will continue to be free to choose to. But as we have seen, that often results in children being conceived. With the abolition of abortion, that means they will have the legal responsibility in those cases, of carrying that child to term. And what of the father's responsibilities? Fathers can now easily be identified with paternity tests. So why should we not require them to be identified and required to, at the very least, provide financial support for the life of the children, up until adulthood, who they have helped to conceive. But as for the Church's handling of this issue, perhaps we should ask this question: If a mother gets fed up with her child of, say, two or three years of age, and murders that child, would God consider her guilty of murder? I think most of us would agree he would. How about if she does it just after giving birth to him or her? Yes, of course, and so if she chooses to do it while the child is still within her body, how can we logically say she would not be guilty of murder? What is the difference? The child is IN her body, but is not HER BODY. The child has it's own unique DNA, and is a human being who is at a point within the cycle of his or her life. To intentionally abort it -- again except in the face of a very few exceptions -- is to murder a human child of God. So, I do not understand how an organization can characterize itself as "pro-life" without first grappling with ALL the principles involved and coming to the same conclusions I have outlined here.
I agree with all that you have said here...but with respect to an individuals rights to personal autonomy of there bodies, it is a bridge to far to expect that any woman, no matter her politics or religion, to sit still for it. So, here is the question, would you and your wife stand for the STATE or Fedreal government making a decision for you that should be made between you and your wife's physician. Because what this comes down to is a woman now being told what to do with her body. The individuals that believe they are saving life's are doing nothing but driving, what was once being done legally and in the open, and more importantly recorded so that there was at least a census, into the dark and underground. Now, with the marshalling of forces to fight for their freedom, women will, as we all know, find a way to abort a pregnancy if they are determined to do so. And they will do it with help from those they trust and from those that love them. This repeal is a lose - lose proposition because you will not win hearts and minds you will only make enemies because you are telling women they are not capable or competent to govern themselves or their bodies...the religious community has practically declared war on over half of the population of the U.S.
@@MrThetruthurts There are a few problems with your logic. *would you and your wife stand for the STATE or Fedreal government making a decision for you that should be made between you and your wife's physician.* This already exists. The state stands between me and my doctor agreeing to kill someone. The state exists to protect basic fundamental rights and the most basic of them is the right to life. *because you will not win hearts and minds you will only make enemies because you are telling women they are not capable or competent to govern themselves or their bodies* Again, this already exists. Laws tell us that when it comes to murdering someone, that we are not capable or competent to govern ourselves in this regard. *the religious community has practically declared war on over half of the population of the U.S.* This is not about religion. Laws against murder exist in all cultures even atheist ones like China. This is an ideological battle on whether a child in the womb is its own life and the pro-abortion side have the untenable position of suggesting that it is not its own life.
@@MrThetruthurts But don’t you see, this decision did nothing to mandate anything with women’s bodies? It simply reverted those decisions to be made back to the individual States and the People, which is where the Constitution states the authority for such decisions belongs. In the absence of an “enumerated right”, Dobbs merely affirms the Constitution. Roe v Wade improperly fashioned a ”right” out of thin air that was not spelled out in the Constitution. I agree with you that the uniqueness of the female anatomy, and their very special role in the reproductive process makes for an uneven playing field, if you will. But that is how God created us. Women can fight their very nature, but that effort is a fool’s mission and self-destructive, in my opinion.
@@MrThetruthurts And contrary to the popular telling of it, I do not believe that abortions were anywhere near as frequent before RvW as they became afterward. Before, I think they really were quite rare. [Impossible to prove since, as you say, no one was really keeping track back then. Did you know that some States, like California, are still not required to report abortions? The Guttmacher Institute has to estimate how many are performed there. ] But after? Not rare but commonplace. In fact, the statistics are revolting. A baby being killed every few seconds. The sheer magnitude of over 60 million deaths is stunning when you stop and really think about it.
@@MrThetruthurts You say that “we” are telling women they aren’t capable and competent to make decisions about their own bodies. Yet, haven’t they demonstrated just that? I know that seems harsh, but it’s true. Remember, more than 60 million murdered. Don’t get me wrong. Men are just as guilty and totally complicit, if not even more so. But it’s women, because of their unique anatomy and special role, who are stuck paying the price when mistakes are made. If it weren’t for another life being involved, one that is innocent and helpless to defend itself, I would never presume to tell any woman what to do with her own body. But that life… that life is a different thing altogether, and for me personally, it’s worth continuing to fight for.
Excellent video presentation. Sad to get this news. SBC can not have it both ways. Sin is always sin. Sin not confessed before God = death of the soul. We are talking about murder, nothing less. Laws do not exist to protect guilty murderers. They exist to prevent murder and punish the guilty.
The SBC is going the way of the world. The insidiousness that is growing in the SBC is disgusting. Abortion issues aren't the only thing they have compromised on. Sad. How many Bible believing churches will secede from the SBC?
Not enough I'm afraid. Love of relationships and tradition are very powerful. Most pastors will downplay any controversy. The pastors with conviction about corruption are often the ones who already left. See this is the problem, once the church understands the SBC is corrupt it doesn't want to give to it any longer. So, it's really hard to educate your congregation about corruption in the SBC unless you're ok with leaving the SBC.
LOVE YOU JEFF !!! and all you do, wished I could have meet you while in La. while you were in B.R. La. ... I left a sbc church, i will never give to anything sbc again, imb and namb do not have transparency...glad I left, once again the liberals have ruined another thing like everything they have touched and ever will touch. The conservatives need to pack up and leave to start a conservative baptist church org, and watch the ship burn to the waterline...GOD's speed and power to you in Jesus name...
They are still mothers, simply mothers of a murdered child. How do you comfort those who have experienced miscarriage if you do not define the unborn as a child? Consistency matters.
That's the key loophole the supposed "pro-life" lobbyists are ensuring stays alive and active. Abolition would ensure these drugs are illegal for manufacture and sale.
As a Southern Baptist Pastor, and a part of a fellowship of SBC pastors, we see abortion as a sin and the mother is sinning when she kills her unborn child. Every Southern Baptist I know sees abortion as murder and the mom as sinning when she aborts her child. My question from watching the video is, what legal actions should we pursue for the mom who aborts her child? Is this movement in support of jail time or imprisonment for the mother? Help me understand what the goal of this position is for the mom who aborts her child.
@@johnsmontanaranch5590 this is horribly false, was John "not alive" when he jumped for Jesus in the womb? Life begins from the moment God starts knitting you together, that's when God values you, that's when we value them as neighbors
How is "choosing to murder the child in the womb", not considered an act of hate? Just the thought / desire to do so is sin conceived within the heart! [Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.] 1 John 3:15 LSB How much greater is the hate for a mother to desire to slaughter her own child in the womb, regardless of circumstances leading to conception?
10:16 "Here's the reality: You're not going to get me, to say that I want to throw mothers behind bars." Mother (using 1st definition that popped up in search engine, even though some are attempting to obscure the definition these days): A woman in relation to her child; female parent: also used of female animals in relation to their offspring. Mothering (again using the 1st definition from search engine) The nurturing and raising of a child or children by a mother. Can one be a mother without a child? Can one be active in mothering without a child? And there was applause for this statement. --> Matthew 15:14.
I get what you're saying, but please ... Be careful with that one. There are many NON-abortive pregnancy loss women who need their Motherhood validated so they can grieve the loss of their babies that they did NOT cause. They did mother their child while their child was with them in the womb, but they are denied the ability to mother their children outside of the womb. There are SOME females who are coerced into abortions by their parents or their pimps or their molesters or whatever. These deeply regret their abortions and would have accepted the role of motherhood or would have given their child for adoption. In these cases, perhaps they should know they can testify against the abortionist, the rapist, or whomever in a plea bargain so they might not get the same sentence as the females who have NO remorse over murdering their babies... This would be similar to plea bargainings that happen for other murders and other crimes. Perhaps we are not bringing that possibility to the light?
@@miscarriagemomsforlife4913 10:14 {Context} [What is being referred to here?] "The previous speaker rightfully referred to wilfull abortion as a sin. My question is: Is it a sin before God by the mother who wilfully participates in it, and if so, which law of God did she break?" 11:10 (Moment of silence to process this rhetorical question.) 11:15 "The Ten Commandments, 'Thou shall not kill.' " 11:19 Throws arms out in an "Isn't it obvious" expression (at least that is how I took it, but I am open to discussing what else his body language and facial expression could have meant there). 11:21 " 'You shall not Kill.' Which is 'You shall not Murder.' " By your RUclips handle/name I can see how it may come off, my intention was not to cause offense. But the context is around wilfull abortions, and he is calling those who participate in this "mothers." Quite the oxymoron. Not only that but they openly admit that it is murder, then attempt to justify it using the word "Mother". To talk about those "who are coerced" is going farther away from the context and is a related conversation but not what is being spoken about in this video.
@@matthewsouthwell3500 Thanks for clarifying. I had not reached that far in the video before seeing and responding to your comment. Because I was somewhat aware of the context, I didn't take offense. But I was also hoping to bring this to your awareness in case you might unknowingly be around pregnancy loss women when discussing these things. Many women who (NON-abortively) legitimately miscarried don't talk about it precisely because -- in part -- their losses are "necessarily" minimized and trivialized in order to have justified the murders of children the same ages as theirs for the past 50+ years. It's ONE (of many) of the reasons I speak up. And try to encourage other pregnancy loss parents to speak up. As long as babies in the womb are allowed to be murdered, why would other people take our losses as seriously as the teen killed by a drunk driver on her way home from the prom or the toddler who drowned in the pool or other child losses? Thanks for your considerate response. We need to abolish abortion, and it seems a bit difficult to convince criminals they are doing criminal acts if they are not going to get treated like criminals who do similar acts. May their eyes be enlightened to the truth so that they will repent.
Are they trying to work on progressively making abortion illegal in more ways? Or are they trying to do everything all at once? We've had 50 years of Row V Wade that changed the culture and how people view abortion. What some prolife groups want to do is work to progressively to abolish abortion, lest there be a snapback effect and you have things happen like they did in Kansas.
Please clarify the term heresy for me. I understand it means unorthodox belief and can refer to many errors with religion but not all heresy is a matter of salvation depending on the error and the subject matter. Typically though I think of heresy or heretic in reference to preaching another Gospel. What is the sense of heresy you mean in this video?
Specifically @13:25-:34 Pastor Bryan Gunter says that the ERLC is "depriving women of the Gospel of Jesus Christ." Is the meaning that if a woman who has had an abortion does not repent of that specific sin she is not saved? I would think a woman who comes to Jesus under conviction of the Spirit may not be aware at the time of conversion that sin needed atonement but the atonement washes all sin away when a person repents and comes to Christ to be born again. It could be later in sanctification that a woman repents of that sin and experiences the peace and forgiveness on a personal level that the Gospel brings.
Here is what I meant in that part of the video: The pro-life industry is depriving women of the gospel when they tell them that they are victims and they haven’t done anything wrong. 1 John 1:9 says “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” The pro-life industry is teaching women that abortion is not a sin. If you do not confess your sin, then there is no repentance. Without repentance, there is no salvation. We can’t justify one of the most grievous sins a person can commit (I.e. murder) and then claim we have taught them the gospel. The idea that abortion is not a sin is indeed a heresy that must be exposed.
@@bgunter3 thank you for clarifying. I believe that all saved women who had an abortion will repent when the Holy Spirit convicts them of the sin of abortion whether at conversion or following. I do not think it is essential to become saved that a woman confess abortion (murder) unless that is one of the sins the Holy Spirit convicts them of during the process of drawing them to Christ because they may be being convicted for other sins that lead them to repent. None of us is fully aware of all our sins when we are saved and we discover them as the Spirit teaches us. If a woman looks to Christ with a repentant heart, believing in the blood of the cross and His resurrection to redeem her of all her sins, she will be saved. I think it goes too far to say a woman is deprived of the Gospel if told that abortion was not a sin, though that is a grievous error to tell a woman such a thing and anyone who is doing so should repent. The Gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, repentance from sin (as far as one is aware at the time and future repentance when convicted), the coming Kingdom, etc. None of us have a full knowledge when saved and grow in holiness over time. In other words, repentance from abortion is a necessary consequence of believing the Gospel and being born again. I hope you do not mean that until a woman specifically recognizes that abortion was sin and repents of that individual sin she CANNOT be saved but it looks like that is one possible meaning of your words.
I’ve grown up in the SBC and I just accepted a position as a pastor in a SBC church. My church is completely pro-life and believe that the women is wrong and deserves punishment. So if we are apart of an SBC church how do we go about squashing the ERLC? @Apologia Studios
Pray for repentance. Maybe ask the ones that voted errantly WHY they feel that way? Is it ignorance or hard-heartedness? If ignorance, maybe show them videos of these unrepentant women who admit knowing they are murdering their baby but have no remorse. And ask them if the child they killed were 16, or 12, or 7, or 2, would they still feel that the mother should not at least be processed through the judicial system. I can testify that these babies ARE persons in EVERY sense of the word (with their own thoughts, their own preferences, their own emotions, their own wills to live, and the ability to feel pain at LESS than 8 weeks post-fertilization. PLUS, since speaking out, I have run across at least one woman who testifies that her son told her his name around 7 to 10 days post-fertilization. These ARE fully human persons, and it is horrific to think about the brutally torturous deaths they face as long as abortion remains legal and/or acceptable. Prayers, Brother. And thanks for standing for abolition and personhood with equal rights.
Women with unplanned pregnancies need alternatives to abortion and the support of the babies' fathers, not the threat of jail time. Women on whom abortions are performed deserve compassion, not the death penalty. Louisiana and Texas both have laws that completely protect unborn babies from abortion beginning at conception. The laws are working. In Texas, all 23 abortion facilities have ceased performing abortions indefinitely. That will soon be the case for the three abortion facilities in Louisiana. Neither of those laws criminalize abortion for women.
Chemical abortions... That's ONE reason why abortion needs to be criminalized. And just because something is criminalized does not mean that the guilty party is GUARANTEED jail time. Women already have plenty of alternatives to abortion: Keeping their legs together would eliminate the demand for over 80% of abortions. Then there are pregnancy resource centers and safe haven laws. And there is adoption. Plus, as you said, she would be better off if first demanding that the guy she is contemplating having sex with sign a contract that he will be responsible for his "fair share" of supporting any children resulting from their fooling around (IF she insists on having sex outside of marriage). How about women need to realize their bodies are treasures meant to be valued and respected and cherished? How about women realizing that they are NOT meant to be sex objects? How about women saying Not until the honeymoon? How about the man keeping it zipped until AFTER he marries the woman? How about the man remembering his God-given role to protect the virtue and the honor of the woman? How about a complete societal repentance and abandonment of the sexual DEVILution so that society returns to God's plan and design for marriage and family?
While I wholeheartedly agree with this position, it needs to be expanded. How so? The woman did not get pregnant on her own. Fornication occurred and under the same Law of God must be punished. To be consistent then, not merely the woman is to be charged with a crime, but also the man. Our laws under the Constitution ought to reflect the Law of God (is KING) in greater detail. Not in less detail. And then we MUST apply those laws consistently, unlike what we now see with illegitimate civil rulers who practice more what we can read in Isaiah, the first 5 chapters, than what our own laws require. In other words, the subversion of every aspect of their responsibily is maligned and muddied to give an appearance, bearing false witness 24/7/365!
You are not going to get me to say what God has already said (Imagine if someone had just murdered his kids and he said, "Well, the murderers are the victims" and "You won't get me to stand up here and say we need to punish them!"... That's his position basically -That women and men who murder are guilty of both sin and a crime and should face punishment. Criminal justice is present from a loving God to discourage ppl from becoming criminals.. It's one thing to be murdered - something more to be the murderer.. This organization is concerned with the perception of ppl looking in - they fear men more than God.. They are concerned about how this will impact their political influence and "church" attendance - given that the popular general position is that women and men who murder their kids are victims and republicans also hold to this obviously wrong position to acquire votes and win power..
@@greenghost6416 Exactly. And if it were any of these ppl at this "lets vote on what's right/wrong " Baptist conference who's children we murdered - I don't think they would call the murderer a victim either.
I'm willing to speak up. Just waiting for invitations. My guess is that probably because some denominations act like it is a sin for a woman to speak up. Thank God for the Deborah's, the Esther's, and other women who obeyed God and were used as instruments of His deliverance to save the lives of His people.
I figure the main reason Christians would have an issue with charging women with murder over abortion is the likelihood that they have relatives and loved ones who have had an abortion. You can mentally agree with the logic of punishing a young mother for abortion when that woman is a stranger. What if that woman was your sister, daughter, or wife? Especially when you know that at home abortions with pills would also be deemed as murder.
I’ve heard Jeff and others on this channel say that they aren’t looking to criminalize the mothers who have had abortions in the past but that they are supporting/presenting laws that do criminalize abortion. Meaning that once the law is set in place, moving forward, men and women would be charged. I’m sure that includes investigations when necessary.
I think you make good point. But it is still intellectually dishonest to say that we would hold a physician guilty for an act that a mother is asking him or her to perform and yet hold the mother completely innocent.
@@davidbrick626 I'm not making an argument in defense of the ERLC or any of the pro-life groups that Apologia is telling us about. I also think you bring up a very good point. Intellectually they are inconsistent, but if we're talking about people we care for intellect will often take a back seat to emotion.
@@BossBattle21 From a practical standpoint, yes. But letting our emotions lead often gets us into trouble. As a parent, for example, I often found myself wanting to be lenient with my children, letting them off easy. But as a father, I also knew that letting them absorb the consequences of their mistakes was actually better for them in the long run. Of course as I allowed the latter to unfold, I was standing by to help cushion the blows should the consequences become too dangerous or deadly. Perhaps a staged implementation of penalties for mothers who intentionally violate abortion laws might be in order. Today, a misdemeanor. In three years, a minor felony. In another three years, life imprisonment.
You know there is one thing that is bothering me. Does any one know. What has God revealed if a 10 year child get pregnant by a rapist and what to do in that case? A child having a child? Is it safe ?
![Quando Rondo - Life Goes On [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eIf3fhMXAow/mqdefault.jpg)
Support Apologia Studios by subscribing to Apologia All Access. Click here for more info.
ean.link/bahnsenu
Do you have a link to the letter that the 70 prolife organizations signed? I want to see who’s on it.
Me too. I want to see the letter.
There's a link to it on this article.
baptistnews.com/article/sbc-presidential-candidate-wants-erlc-leader-fired-for-joining-75-other-pro-life-leaders-in-urging-compassion-for-women-who-have-abortions/#.YtC_yWRujGc
@@watchwomandebrajesusistheway www.nrlc.org/uploads/communications/051222coalitionlettertostates.pdf
“It’s so incongruous to hear those who think that they’re being compassionate toward women-who say, ‘Oh no, we don’t want them to feel guilty. They’re victims. They’re not culpable for the death of their children.’-they think that they’re showing them mercy, but in reality they are putting a road block to the only pathway of mercy and grace that is afforded to them. … The very foundation of the Gospel is the Law of God.”
-Tom Ascol
Excellent. Thank you for producing this. I was not aware that the ERLC opposes the criminalization of prenatal murder.
Contrasting the SBC’s response to sex abusers really highlighted the hypocrisy of the ERLC’s position on prenatal murder. Well done.
We moved recently, and I requested that we do not join an SBC church. Praise God, my husband was on the same page.
There are still many SBC churches and pastors that are solid. Please don't throw out the baby with the bathwater
@@nathanielbuck5042 A lot of them are leaving the sbc. I'm just glad my church isn't part of the sbc.
@@nathanielbuck5042 if you still send money to the SBC you support the evil at the leadership level.
Every SBC church is autonomous. There are some that are Godly and solid and some that are cold and dead.
@@davidcrowe8090 every SBC church supports the ERLC. Do you see the problem ?
If a woman contracts to have a human life killed she and all those involved deserve jail. Period.
No. According to the law of God, it’s death. Not jail.
@@robertkeator8210 Exactly! A swift execution is what the sin of murder earns.
@@robertkeator8210
Nope. Throw the first stone
@@Samy-sx6kn I don’t understand. What do you mean, “throw the first stone”?
@@robertkeator8210
Read your Bible
This is a great primer for the next leg of the engagement. Be diligent to share this so we can be prepared for the pitfalls ahead and reform the errors being taught.
Thank you Jeff & the entire Apologia team for bringing this important issue to light.
This expose' serves as a good reminder that believers need to pay extra close attention to what the term "Pro-Life" means to the organizations they donate their dollars to and the politicians they elect.
Keep fighting, Apologia. Keep fighting, Pastor Brian. Keep leading your church well. Dont give up on the SBC.
WILL DEFINITELY BE WATCHING AND AM SHARING NOW!
Thank God for this exposé.
So sad. Thank you for letting us know.
This is Ephesians 5:11 in action. Great work!
Praise God!!!!!!! Have no fellowship with darkness, but rather expose them.
At this point, if any church is still affiliated with SBC, they're either not paying attention to their falling away or they're affirming.
The ERLC has blood on their hands.
@ApologiaStudios, glad you are calling this out as a heresy using an ecclesiastical definition. Could you provide a consolidated list of the quotes and references from the Didache and church fathers?
Didache (page 4-5, The Two Ways): "This is the second commandment of the teaching.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not be sexually perverse.
You shall not be sexually promiscuous. ... You shall not murder a child by abortion, nor kill a child at birth."
I found this and several others with an internet search, including Tertullus (spelling?) and others. Check out Peter's vision of their punishment. I don't recall where I placed them offhand.
@@miscarriagemomsforlife4913 thank you!
Praise God for this video!!!! No more support for SBC!
How can she ever be convicted by sin if the ones who are suppose to uphold Gods words if they keep telling women it’s ok to murder there children
*their children. Their shows possession; there is a preposition as in, The book is over there.
Thou shalt not kill
Don’t pass your children through the fire to the idol of self (ishness)
Thank you for this. Horrifying
Shared brother, thank you. Sadly, I’ve read the recent writings of a local pastor who immediately upon returning from this year’s convention began writing and speaking to assure some belief that there are goodness and right purposes still going forth from the convention which scoffs at the sufficiency of God’s Word every opportunity and in every space they go. Another however, has rallied his people to depart the convention and upon his reasoned and full explanation the over arching issues and even the craziness going on at nearly every level of the organization and amongst its leading voices. It’s so sad to see so many uninformed people who fund the wickedness that’s going in at EC, NAMB, ERLC, and at the seminaries. They’re uninformed and their pastors aren’t warning them… they’re not leading.
Great job guys! Especially Carman! Very well done.
This is really disgusting, I’ve heard so many negative things about SBC I pray they repent and stop serving two masters
I look forward to watching this soon!
I have never understood the sentiment in Christian circles where we agree that abortion is murder, but we excuse the woman for "reasons". Is it murder or not!
All Christians need to examine, and self-examine their motives, words, and actions against scripture and the word of God.
Acts 17 verse 11
"Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so."
This is what we need people in Idaho to gain knowledge and understanding on. Representative Brent Crane could use some prayers. He doesn't want the murdering mothers to be punished.
Thanks for this video. Sharing
This is a difficult issue, and I am speaking with respect to our secular society and not only the Church. We do sympathize with the plight of the mother who feels abandoned, all alone, and wondering how she will raise and provide for the child within her. If we are going to legislate that this mother MUST carry that child to term, then we must, as a society, be willing to come alongside her and assist her throughout her pregnancy.
But not only do we want abortion to end (with certain very limited exceptions), we also want the NEED for abortions to end. This is going to require a massive shift of paradigms in our society and, most likely, in our laws. It won't happen overnight, and if you try to instantly legislate it, we are in for a bitter struggle for many years to come.
Young women must be educated in the reality that if they demand choice over their own bodies, then those choices may have consequences they may not like, as well as legal responsibilities. If, for example, they demand to have promiscuous intercourse without protection and/or contraception, then they will continue to be free to choose to. But as we have seen, that often results in children being conceived. With the abolition of abortion, that means they will have the legal responsibility in those cases, of carrying that child to term.
And what of the father's responsibilities? Fathers can now easily be identified with paternity tests. So why should we not require them to be identified and required to, at the very least, provide financial support for the life of the children, up until adulthood, who they have helped to conceive.
But as for the Church's handling of this issue, perhaps we should ask this question: If a mother gets fed up with her child of, say, two or three years of age, and murders that child, would God consider her guilty of murder? I think most of us would agree he would. How about if she does it just after giving birth to him or her?
Yes, of course, and so if she chooses to do it while the child is still within her body, how can we logically say she would not be guilty of murder? What is the difference? The child is IN her body, but is not HER BODY. The child has it's own unique DNA, and is a human being who is at a point within the cycle of his or her life. To intentionally abort it -- again except in the face of a very few exceptions -- is to murder a human child of God.
So, I do not understand how an organization can characterize itself as "pro-life" without first grappling with ALL the principles involved and coming to the same conclusions I have outlined here.
I agree with all that you have said here...but with respect to an individuals rights to personal autonomy of there bodies, it is a bridge to far to expect that any woman, no matter her politics or religion, to sit still for it.
So, here is the question, would you and your wife stand for the STATE or Fedreal government making a decision for you that should be made between you and your wife's physician. Because what this comes down to is a woman now being told what to do with her body. The individuals that believe they are saving life's are doing nothing but driving, what was once being done legally and in the open, and more importantly recorded so that there was at least a census, into the dark and underground.
Now, with the marshalling of forces to fight for their freedom, women will, as we all know, find a way to abort a pregnancy if they are determined to do so. And they will do it with help from those they trust and from those that love them. This repeal is a lose - lose proposition because you will not win hearts and minds you will only make enemies because you are telling women they are not capable or competent to govern themselves or their bodies...the religious community has practically declared war on over half of the population of the U.S.
@@MrThetruthurts
There are a few problems with your logic.
*would you and your wife stand for the STATE or Fedreal government making a decision for you that should be made between you and your wife's physician.*
This already exists. The state stands between me and my doctor agreeing to kill someone. The state exists to protect basic fundamental rights and the most basic of them is the right to life.
*because you will not win hearts and minds you will only make enemies because you are telling women they are not capable or competent to govern themselves or their bodies*
Again, this already exists. Laws tell us that when it comes to murdering someone, that we are not capable or competent to govern ourselves in this regard.
*the religious community has practically declared war on over half of the population of the U.S.*
This is not about religion. Laws against murder exist in all cultures even atheist ones like China. This is an ideological battle on whether a child in the womb is its own life and the pro-abortion side have the untenable position of suggesting that it is not its own life.
@@MrThetruthurts But don’t you see, this decision did nothing to mandate anything with women’s bodies? It simply reverted those decisions to be made back to the individual States and the People, which is where the Constitution states the authority for such decisions belongs. In the absence of an “enumerated right”, Dobbs merely affirms the Constitution. Roe v Wade improperly fashioned a ”right” out of thin air that was not spelled out in the Constitution.
I agree with you that the uniqueness of the female anatomy, and their very special role in the reproductive process makes for an uneven playing field, if you will. But that is how God created us.
Women can fight their very nature, but that effort is a fool’s mission and self-destructive, in my opinion.
@@MrThetruthurts And contrary to the popular telling of it, I do not believe that abortions were anywhere near as frequent before RvW as they became afterward. Before, I think they really were quite rare. [Impossible to prove since, as you say, no one was really keeping track back then. Did you know that some States, like California, are still not required to report abortions? The Guttmacher Institute has to estimate how many are performed there. ]
But after? Not rare but commonplace. In fact, the statistics are revolting. A baby being killed every few seconds. The sheer magnitude of over 60 million deaths is stunning when you stop and really think about it.
@@MrThetruthurts You say that “we” are telling women they aren’t capable and competent to make decisions about their own bodies. Yet, haven’t they demonstrated just that? I know that seems harsh, but it’s true. Remember, more than 60 million murdered. Don’t get me wrong. Men are just as guilty and totally complicit, if not even more so.
But it’s women, because of their unique anatomy and special role, who are stuck paying the price when mistakes are made.
If it weren’t for another life being involved, one that is innocent and helpless to defend itself, I would never presume to tell any woman what to do with her own body.
But that life… that life is a different thing altogether, and for me personally, it’s worth continuing to fight for.
Nice work, Brian!
Excellent video presentation. Sad to get this news. SBC can not have it both ways. Sin is always sin. Sin not confessed before God = death of the soul. We are talking about murder, nothing less. Laws do not exist to protect guilty murderers. They exist to prevent murder and punish the guilty.
The SBC is going the way of the world. The insidiousness that is growing in the SBC is disgusting. Abortion issues aren't the only thing they have compromised on. Sad. How many Bible believing churches will secede from the SBC?
Not enough I'm afraid. Love of relationships and tradition are very powerful. Most pastors will downplay any controversy. The pastors with conviction about corruption are often the ones who already left. See this is the problem, once the church understands the SBC is corrupt it doesn't want to give to it any longer. So, it's really hard to educate your congregation about corruption in the SBC unless you're ok with leaving the SBC.
LOVE YOU JEFF !!! and all you do, wished I could have meet you while in La. while you were in B.R. La. ... I left a sbc church, i will never give to anything sbc again, imb and namb do not have transparency...glad I left, once again the liberals have ruined another thing like everything they have touched and ever will touch. The conservatives need to pack up and leave to start a conservative baptist church org, and watch the ship burn to the waterline...GOD's speed and power to you in Jesus name...
I live in Livingston Parish, and Brian is a straight up warrior.
They seem proud😢
Oh now I see Greear, no wonder!
They had JD Greear as the spokesperson! What hypocrisy! He is a joke!
They're not mothers if they kill their babies.
They are still mothers, simply mothers of a murdered child.
How do you comfort those who have experienced miscarriage if you do not define the unborn as a child?
Consistency matters.
I think that you mean that comment in the sense of "they aren't acting like nor should be honored as mothers if they murder their babies." Correct?
@@jackykimes exactly
Wow, so sad.
What about the "abortion at home pills"? How do we stop that?
Same way you would prosecute someone who poisons someone I reckon.
That's the key loophole the supposed "pro-life" lobbyists are ensuring stays alive and active. Abolition would ensure these drugs are illegal for manufacture and sale.
As a Southern Baptist Pastor, and a part of a fellowship of SBC pastors, we see abortion as a sin and the mother is sinning when she kills her unborn child. Every Southern Baptist I know sees abortion as murder and the mom as sinning when she aborts her child. My question from watching the video is, what legal actions should we pursue for the mom who aborts her child? Is this movement in support of jail time or imprisonment for the mother? Help me understand what the goal of this position is for the mom who aborts her child.
When you say the mom is sinning, how so? What sin is she committing?
@@mountairyforjesus umm.....murder ? Were you not following the conversation?
@@justinpeters7166 You should ask the person who made the original comment. He seems to be uncertain what the legal actions should be…
@@justinpeters7166 you cannot murder that which is not living. Thank God says in Genesis 2-7 that human life begins at first breath
@@johnsmontanaranch5590 this is horribly false, was John "not alive" when he jumped for Jesus in the womb? Life begins from the moment God starts knitting you together, that's when God values you, that's when we value them as neighbors
How is "choosing to murder the child in the womb", not considered an act of hate? Just the thought / desire to do so is sin conceived within the heart!
[Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.] 1 John 3:15 LSB
How much greater is the hate for a mother to desire to slaughter her own child in the womb, regardless of circumstances leading to conception?
10:16
"Here's the reality: You're not going to get me, to say that I want to throw mothers behind bars."
Mother (using 1st definition that popped up in search engine, even though some are attempting to obscure the definition these days):
A woman in relation to her child; female parent: also used of female animals in relation to their offspring.
Mothering (again using the 1st definition from search engine)
The nurturing and raising of a child or children by a mother.
Can one be a mother without a child? Can one be active in mothering without a child?
And there was applause for this statement. --> Matthew 15:14.
I get what you're saying, but please ... Be careful with that one.
There are many NON-abortive pregnancy loss women who need their Motherhood validated so they can grieve the loss of their babies that they did NOT cause. They did mother their child while their child was with them in the womb, but they are denied the ability to mother their children outside of the womb.
There are SOME females who are coerced into abortions by their parents or their pimps or their molesters or whatever. These deeply regret their abortions and would have accepted the role of motherhood or would have given their child for adoption. In these cases, perhaps they should know they can testify against the abortionist, the rapist, or whomever in a plea bargain so they might not get the same sentence as the females who have NO remorse over murdering their babies... This would be similar to plea bargainings that happen for other murders and other crimes. Perhaps we are not bringing that possibility to the light?
@@miscarriagemomsforlife4913
10:14
{Context} [What is being referred to here?]
"The previous speaker rightfully referred to wilfull abortion as a sin. My question is: Is it a sin before God by the mother who wilfully participates in it, and if so, which law of God did she break?"
11:10
(Moment of silence to process this rhetorical question.)
11:15
"The Ten Commandments, 'Thou shall not kill.' "
11:19
Throws arms out in an "Isn't it obvious" expression (at least that is how I took it, but I am open to discussing what else his body language and facial expression could have meant there).
11:21
" 'You shall not Kill.' Which is 'You shall not Murder.' "
By your RUclips handle/name I can see how it may come off, my intention was not to cause offense. But the context is around wilfull abortions, and he is calling those who participate in this "mothers." Quite the oxymoron. Not only that but they openly admit that it is murder, then attempt to justify it using the word "Mother". To talk about those "who are coerced" is going farther away from the context and is a related conversation but not what is being spoken about in this video.
@@matthewsouthwell3500 Thanks for clarifying. I had not reached that far in the video before seeing and responding to your comment.
Because I was somewhat aware of the context, I didn't take offense. But I was also hoping to bring this to your awareness in case you might unknowingly be around pregnancy loss women when discussing these things. Many women who (NON-abortively) legitimately miscarried don't talk about it precisely because -- in part -- their losses are "necessarily" minimized and trivialized in order to have justified the murders of children the same ages as theirs for the past 50+ years.
It's ONE (of many) of the reasons I speak up. And try to encourage other pregnancy loss parents to speak up. As long as babies in the womb are allowed to be murdered, why would other people take our losses as seriously as the teen killed by a drunk driver on her way home from the prom or the toddler who drowned in the pool or other child losses?
Thanks for your considerate response. We need to abolish abortion, and it seems a bit difficult to convince criminals they are doing criminal acts if they are not going to get treated like criminals who do similar acts. May their eyes be enlightened to the truth so that they will repent.
This is sad…does the SBC plan to apologize in the future for its position on this issue? Kind of like apologizing in the 90s for slavery??
Only if the left says they should
Are they trying to work on progressively making abortion illegal in more ways? Or are they trying to do everything all at once? We've had 50 years of Row V Wade that changed the culture and how people view abortion. What some prolife groups want to do is work to progressively to abolish abortion, lest there be a snapback effect and you have things happen like they did in Kansas.
Please clarify the term heresy for me. I understand it means unorthodox belief and can refer to many errors with religion but not all heresy is a matter of salvation depending on the error and the subject matter. Typically though I think of heresy or heretic in reference to preaching another Gospel. What is the sense of heresy you mean in this video?
Specifically @13:25-:34 Pastor Bryan Gunter says that the ERLC is "depriving women of the Gospel of Jesus Christ." Is the meaning that if a woman who has had an abortion does not repent of that specific sin she is not saved? I would think a woman who comes to Jesus under conviction of the Spirit may not be aware at the time of conversion that sin needed atonement but the atonement washes all sin away when a person repents and comes to Christ to be born again. It could be later in sanctification that a woman repents of that sin and experiences the peace and forgiveness on a personal level that the Gospel brings.
Here is what I meant in that part of the video: The pro-life industry is depriving women of the gospel when they tell them that they are victims and they haven’t done anything wrong. 1 John 1:9 says “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
The pro-life industry is teaching women that abortion is not a sin. If you do not confess your sin, then there is no repentance. Without repentance, there is no salvation. We can’t justify one of the most grievous sins a person can commit (I.e. murder) and then claim we have taught them the gospel.
The idea that abortion is not a sin is indeed a heresy that must be exposed.
@@bgunter3 thank you for clarifying.
I believe that all saved women who had an abortion will repent when the Holy Spirit convicts them of the sin of abortion whether at conversion or following. I do not think it is essential to become saved that a woman confess abortion (murder) unless that is one of the sins the Holy Spirit convicts them of during the process of drawing them to Christ because they may be being convicted for other sins that lead them to repent. None of us is fully aware of all our sins when we are saved and we discover them as the Spirit teaches us. If a woman looks to Christ with a repentant heart, believing in the blood of the cross and His resurrection to redeem her of all her sins, she will be saved.
I think it goes too far to say a woman is deprived of the Gospel if told that abortion was not a sin, though that is a grievous error to tell a woman such a thing and anyone who is doing so should repent. The Gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, repentance from sin (as far as one is aware at the time and future repentance when convicted), the coming Kingdom, etc. None of us have a full knowledge when saved and grow in holiness over time.
In other words, repentance from abortion is a necessary consequence of believing the Gospel and being born again. I hope you do not mean that until a woman specifically recognizes that abortion was sin and repents of that individual sin she CANNOT be saved but it looks like that is one possible meaning of your words.
What is the punishment for murder Pastor Durbin? Is it Forgiveness?
What about the fathers...are they complicit?
Are they involved in the abortion? We must hold men accountable while not conflating the act of conception with the murder.
The SBC is lost, God is shaking the skirts of the SBC to expose the culprits
Check out Joseph Atwill's "Caesar's Messiah".
I’ve grown up in the SBC and I just accepted a position as a pastor in a SBC church. My church is completely pro-life and believe that the women is wrong and deserves punishment.
So if we are apart of an SBC church how do we go about squashing the ERLC? @Apologia Studios
Pray for repentance. Maybe ask the ones that voted errantly WHY they feel that way? Is it ignorance or hard-heartedness? If ignorance, maybe show them videos of these unrepentant women who admit knowing they are murdering their baby but have no remorse. And ask them if the child they killed were 16, or 12, or 7, or 2, would they still feel that the mother should not at least be processed through the judicial system.
I can testify that these babies ARE persons in EVERY sense of the word (with their own thoughts, their own preferences, their own emotions, their own wills to live, and the ability to feel pain at LESS than 8 weeks post-fertilization. PLUS, since speaking out, I have run across at least one woman who testifies that her son told her his name around 7 to 10 days post-fertilization.
These ARE fully human persons, and it is horrific to think about the brutally torturous deaths they face as long as abortion remains legal and/or acceptable.
Prayers, Brother. And thanks for standing for abolition and personhood with equal rights.
Women with unplanned pregnancies need alternatives to abortion and the support of the babies' fathers, not the threat of jail time.
Women on whom abortions are performed deserve compassion, not the death penalty.
Louisiana and Texas both have laws that completely protect unborn babies from abortion beginning at conception.
The laws are working. In Texas, all 23 abortion facilities have ceased performing abortions indefinitely. That will soon be the case for the three abortion facilities in Louisiana.
Neither of those laws criminalize abortion for women.
Chemical abortions... That's ONE reason why abortion needs to be criminalized. And just because something is criminalized does not mean that the guilty party is GUARANTEED jail time.
Women already have plenty of alternatives to abortion: Keeping their legs together would eliminate the demand for over 80% of abortions. Then there are pregnancy resource centers and safe haven laws. And there is adoption. Plus, as you said, she would be better off if first demanding that the guy she is contemplating having sex with sign a contract that he will be responsible for his "fair share" of supporting any children resulting from their fooling around (IF she insists on having sex outside of marriage).
How about women need to realize their bodies are treasures meant to be valued and respected and cherished? How about women realizing that they are NOT meant to be sex objects? How about women saying Not until the honeymoon?
How about the man keeping it zipped until AFTER he marries the woman? How about the man remembering his God-given role to protect the virtue and the honor of the woman?
How about a complete societal repentance and abandonment of the sexual DEVILution so that society returns to God's plan and design for marriage and family?
While I wholeheartedly agree with this position, it needs to be expanded. How so? The woman did not get pregnant on her own. Fornication occurred and under the same Law of God must be punished. To be consistent then, not merely the woman is to be charged with a crime, but also the man. Our laws under the Constitution ought to reflect the Law of God (is KING) in greater detail. Not in less detail. And then we MUST apply those laws consistently, unlike what we now see with illegitimate civil rulers who practice more what we can read in Isaiah, the first 5 chapters, than what our own laws require. In other words, the subversion of every aspect of their responsibily is maligned and muddied to give an appearance, bearing false witness 24/7/365!
Heresy from the pit of hell.
Apologia, What is the fruit of a criminal act called ?
Gotta love an entire documentary filled exclusively with men talking about the subject of abortion. Lol!
Wow
You are not going to get me to say what God has already said (Imagine if someone had just murdered his kids and he said, "Well, the murderers are the victims" and "You won't get me to stand up here and say we need to punish them!"... That's his position basically -That women and men who murder are guilty of both sin and a crime and should face punishment.
Criminal justice is present from a loving God to discourage ppl from becoming criminals.. It's one thing to be murdered - something more to be the murderer.. This organization is concerned with the perception of ppl looking in - they fear men more than God.. They are concerned about how this will impact their political influence and "church" attendance - given that the popular general position is that women and men who murder their kids are victims and republicans also hold to this obviously wrong position to acquire votes and win power..
Ive never heard anyone call a man a victim who murders their child.
@@greenghost6416 Exactly. And if it were any of these ppl at this "lets vote on what's right/wrong " Baptist conference who's children we murdered - I don't think they would call the murderer a victim either.
Why are there no women speaking. I believe it is a human issue. Where are the women speaking up about it??
I'm willing to speak up. Just waiting for invitations.
My guess is that probably because some denominations act like it is a sin for a woman to speak up. Thank God for the Deborah's, the Esther's, and other women who obeyed God and were used as instruments of His deliverance to save the lives of His people.
I figure the main reason Christians would have an issue with charging women with murder over abortion is the likelihood that they have relatives and loved ones who have had an abortion. You can mentally agree with the logic of punishing a young mother for abortion when that woman is a stranger. What if that woman was your sister, daughter, or wife? Especially when you know that at home abortions with pills would also be deemed as murder.
I’ve heard Jeff and others on this channel say that they aren’t looking to criminalize the mothers who have had abortions in the past but that they are supporting/presenting laws that do criminalize abortion. Meaning that once the law is set in place, moving forward, men and women would be charged. I’m sure that includes investigations when necessary.
From recent experience, it is painful and awkward to speak this to women who I deeply love but God's word and law is more important than my comfort.
I think you make good point. But it is still intellectually dishonest to say that we would hold a physician guilty for an act that a mother is asking him or her to perform and yet hold the mother completely innocent.
@@davidbrick626
I'm not making an argument in defense of the ERLC or any of the pro-life groups that Apologia is telling us about. I also think you bring up a very good point. Intellectually they are inconsistent, but if we're talking about people we care for intellect will often take a back seat to emotion.
@@BossBattle21 From a practical standpoint, yes. But letting our emotions lead often gets us into trouble. As a parent, for example, I often found myself wanting to be lenient with my children, letting them off easy.
But as a father, I also knew that letting them absorb the consequences of their mistakes was actually better for them in the long run. Of course as I allowed the latter to unfold, I was standing by to help cushion the blows should the consequences become too dangerous or deadly.
Perhaps a staged implementation of penalties for mothers who intentionally violate abortion laws might be in order. Today, a misdemeanor. In three years, a minor felony. In another three years, life imprisonment.
THE BEARDED LEGION
Hey
Follow the yellow brick road.
You know there is one thing that is bothering me. Does any one know. What has God revealed if a 10 year child get pregnant by a rapist and what to do in that case? A child having a child? Is it safe ?