There is an important update to this video. If we turn off the part cooling, we will get much better layer adhesion. Measured: ruclips.net/video/_N1MTWGqriI/видео.html
Nice report, I agree with your findings, the PC-CF layer adhesion is affected by the part cooling fan, more fan, less strength, if you print in a heated chamber with no fan, it gets very strong, I anneal all the time, print at 101% size and then cook it for 8hrs at 120C and you end up with a part that's spot on.
Thanks for the data, i really like PC-CF, very easy to print, also with a great print finish, and also pretty cheap for what you get. One big factor is that its not moisture sensitive, which is a big plus over Nylon. I especially enjoyed that you tested the annealed parts, i havent seen any data on it yet, will definitely try that.
Can it be printed without enclosure? I have my Prusa sitting on my working desk, I don't have place for enclosure but I also don't want to breathe in some nasty stuff.
Please make a comparison between PC, PA, PC-CF and PA-CF. It would be an amazing video to know the differences in terms of mechanical properties and applications of each materiall
Thanks for actually doing the testing on this filament. For some reason CNC Kitchen will not release his review video for the carbon fiver version of PC blend.
I see the very poor layer adhesion is why he probably did not post his video. I purchased a roll of this. I need to install my all metal hot end and upgrade the firmware on my CR10 to print at the higher temperatures. I will really need to design structural parts with this filament carefully due to the poor layer adhesion.
I was waiting that video myself. I saw in his latest video that he is sponsored by Prusa, that is very rare, that they sponsor anybody. But I hope that is not the case, that he don't present CF because of weak layer adhesion, must be some other reason.
I do a lot of printing in PC CF, On my Mark 3. I have always found the best settings to be 275°C Hot end , 100°C Bed, And absolutely NO cooling whatsoever ! This is extremely important or you will not get Optimal layer adhesion With this material. The print will still look great it but will have no Strength. Additionally I use a water cooled hot end Which also avoids any extra air movement from the Hot end cooling fan. And a much more consistent Print at the higher temperatures. . Water cooling also avoids any filament jams from heat creep at the high temperatures.
Excellent information! I have to ask since I’ve barely scratched the surface on using different filament types. What is the driver that has you using this? I’d think it’s important considering a water cooled hot-end, etc…. Thank you!
@@TheJacklwilliams "What is the driver that has you using this?" I'm not quite sure understand this question. Are you referring to my water cooled hot end ? Because if you are the system is one I designed myself. And does not require a "driver"
This could not have come at a better time as I was actually looking online at my list of preferred manufacturers for PC-CF and PETG-CF and NYLON-CF when the notification came for your video, I was surpised to learn that with Prusament you dont get a full 1Kg of material but the combined weight of the spool and the filament is 1Kg, is this typical of most manufacturers, I had assumed that I have been getting 1Kg of filament and after just weighing a roll of Esun filament I get a full 1Kg of material although my regular filament brand is Ziro but I dont have a full roll at the moment to check. I have bought Prusament in the past but just because of particular colour I needed, I feel conned and if this practice is the same with the regular Prusament in PLA and PETG I wont be buying anymore.
Prusament filament is listed as net weight. PLA and PETG are listed as 1kg. ASA for example is 850g due to it being a less dense material. So you are not getting less volume, a spool of ASA will print the same amount as a spool of PLA.
If you happen to use the satin PEI bed plate, then glue stick is not required for PC Blend CF. It also prints near perfect using standard prusa slicer profile. Impressive !
Thank you for sharing the results of your excellent tests; good job on your tensile test fixturing for avoiding application of moments. It would be really nice if in addition to the tensile failure loads you could also give the strength values.
IMO, you shouldn't use part cooling when printing PCCF. That could be the cause for that weak layer adhesion. I only use a bit of part cooling for bridges.
I will try to print those two vertical test object without cooling, I will add results in description or as post on RUclips. Prusa Slicer default setting turns 20% fan on those 45° overhangs.
Regarding your videos about the food safety of 3d printed parts, does the high deformation temperature of this material make sterilization possible? It seems like you could boil or even autoclave these parts and avoid the problems with bacterial growth in between layers.
My Hevort parts consumed two spools of PCCF, printed at 285/110/~50. The higher chamber temps helped a lot with layer adhesion. When we pushed to ~60° chamber, the layer adhesion went insane. Supports became super hard to remove and the parts became almost unbreakable by hand. Also, it is quite hydroscopic and became much stronger once dried. Overall a good material, but I don't like that they used cheap carbon instead of high modulus fibers. The modulus of this material is barely higher than the unfilled PC Blend, so I don't think that the price is justified.
@@DKFX1 highly depends on your application. If you just want your parts to be "unbreakable", go with TPU. A good PP might also work. If your parts need to be stiff but aren't loaded constantly, PACF might work. For printer parts, go with PCCF. Whats your application like?
@@DKFX1 @Sabertooth Turtle crossbow limbs: just go with ASA, should be fine. If you want them so look nice, you might go with PACF. Wind turbines: no idea what load that would be😅 do you have example parts or so?
Id be very interested in a comparison of different cf filaments. Ideally with the same amount of fibers. I like cf petg and I'm not sure if pa or pc would be a significant improvement (considerig price and hydroscopy)
Great video! I was wondering if the enclosure temp was enough to achive the best layed adhesion, also as others have already said, im not sure if the cooling fan is needed for this engineering grade materials. If each layer can cool in a longer period of time you can get better adhesion on Z axis (this is where enclosure temp can help), CNCKitchen did a video about this. Obviusly if you do this with PLA it will deform, but based on the results of the video i handles temperature really good so you wont be reaching the HDT
Cooling fan is very useful when bridging. I set it to only be on during the first layer of bridging, acting as a sacrificial layer. Cooling fan used during printing of the support interface is also important because it makes removal of supports much easier (I always 100% need this when dealing with Nylon as it's a pita to remove supports otherwise).
I am not sure at this moment, probably filaments which are less sensitive to moisture (but not sure if same case with water). So probably not Nylon. If temperature is below 30°C even PLA can be used.
Hm, yes, I printed some parts which holds 2 bars, but not tested yet to see the limits. If I will figure out some safe and measurable experimenting method I will test few materias.
i have never used this carbon fiber filament, is it carbon fiber dust or powder they add to this PC filament or is it milled CF, if i sent you some Atomic CF filament would u test it, they use milled CF it is very strong
@@MyTechFun sorry for the delay i didnt get a notice u replied to me, its Atomic CF PETG they also have it in ABS and PLA and a nylon, but i use the CF PETG the most they have several different colors of this there dark cherry red cf petg looks great
@@3dprintingcave778 I contacted AtomicFilament, I hope they will make positive decision and send me some filaments for testing. If you are from US, you could call them to remind them to answer my email 🙂 atomicfilament.com/pages/contact-us
@@3dprintingcave778 I got the answer from Atomic: "At the moment, we are not providing review products. We do not have a warehouse in EU. We only ship within USA and Canada."
What is the best material for printing Prusa printer parts if you want to have higher quality than the original PETG? Is the CF PCBlend a good option to have some more headroom with temperatures in the enclosure, or are the specific 3d printing stresses not good for CFPCB?
Not sure about other parts, but I had problems with extruder PETG elements on MK3S inside enclosure. For example PINDA proble holder deformed a little. So I reprinted them from PCblend CF. Great material easy for printing, but you need hardened nozzle and print close to 300C with very minimal part cooling.
If this had better layer-adhesion it would be the perfect filament. Good mechanical properties, easy to print, and very high temperature resistence. Maybe they can mix it with something else to fix that one flaw.
@@Todestelzer layer adhesion only suffers when they add powder or dust CF find a company that adds milled CF and it will be stronger, like Atomic filament or 3DXtech
@@MyTechFun texture sheet btw u dont need glue for PC-CF on prusa textured sheet . And the filament doesn’t warp while printing . It’s very easy to print .
PLA does shrink, but printers are calibrated to compensate for PLA. (Until geometry undermines that) Theoretically it is possible some plastics would appear to expand, if they shrink less than PLA.
The probpen with tour temperature tests is the speed, 10 min to go up 100°C above room temperature is too fast to be representative of real world use, like printer parts
I am clear with it, but this is what I can do with my equipment. But, at least I am doing the same test with all materials, so results are comparable with each other
those parts didnt look to be printed hot enough maybe it was your part cooling iam not sure, but they do look like they printed at the minimum temp, you should redo this test and print at 295 with zero part cooling
2 года назад+2
Don't use silicon sock at 300 degC, that will destroy the sock.
I thought the hotter the nozzle gets the more benefit you get from insulating it. As long as the heat breake works properly so you don't get heat creap. What is the maximum temperature for an E3D silicone sock?
I've printed at least 3kg at 300 degrees and my socks are fine
2 года назад+2
@@gnydick My sock degraded very quickly when I used it for printing Prusament PC Blend (270 degC IIRC). And it is a E3D original (standard sock, not "pro").
@ E3D original sock: Each sock is made using a non-stick silicone resin, and can be used at a constant temperature of 300C without degradation. Going hotter than 300C is not recommended; this results in slow ageing, and eventual weakness and splitting. The socks are rated to last for at least 100+ hours of use.
Sure, but since I put my prusa in an enclosure I also need less power because of less losses by heat the bed compared to an open printer especially when it turns cold in the shop.
There is an important update to this video. If we turn off the part cooling, we will get much better layer adhesion. Measured: ruclips.net/video/_N1MTWGqriI/видео.html
Yes that is exactly what I have found, On Priline CFPC
Nice report, I agree with your findings, the PC-CF layer adhesion is affected by the part cooling fan, more fan, less strength, if you print in a heated chamber with no fan, it gets very strong, I anneal all the time, print at 101% size and then cook it for 8hrs at 120C and you end up with a part that's spot on.
Thanks for the data, i really like PC-CF, very easy to print, also with a great print finish, and also pretty cheap for what you get. One big factor is that its not moisture sensitive, which is a big plus over Nylon. I especially enjoyed that you tested the annealed parts, i havent seen any data on it yet, will definitely try that.
Can it be printed without enclosure? I have my Prusa sitting on my working desk, I don't have place for enclosure but I also don't want to breathe in some nasty stuff.
in the result graph, it will be more clear if you can compare it with PLA/ABS/ASA as well
Thank you so much for taking the time to show us your results! :)
Great test and interesting as always
Love that you test so many aspects of the filament
Thanks for sharing your experiences with all of us 🙂
Wykonał Pan wspaniałą pracę. Bardzo czytelne i dokładne.🙂
Love that filament! Very easy to print, yet strong and resistant to high temperatures.
Please make a comparison between PC, PA, PC-CF and PA-CF. It would be an amazing video to know the differences in terms of mechanical properties and applications of each materiall
Thanks for actually doing the testing on this filament. For some reason CNC Kitchen will not release his review video for the carbon fiver version of PC blend.
I see the very poor layer adhesion is why he probably did not post his video. I purchased a roll of this. I need to install my all metal hot end and upgrade the firmware on my CR10 to print at the higher temperatures. I will really need to design structural parts with this filament carefully due to the poor layer adhesion.
I was waiting that video myself. I saw in his latest video that he is sponsored by Prusa, that is very rare, that they sponsor anybody. But I hope that is not the case, that he don't present CF because of weak layer adhesion, must be some other reason.
Such excellent, careful work! Great job, thank you and please keep on doing what you do!
I do a lot of printing in PC CF, On my Mark 3. I have always found the best settings to be 275°C Hot end , 100°C Bed, And absolutely NO cooling whatsoever ! This is extremely important or you will not get Optimal layer adhesion With this material. The print will still look great it but will have no Strength. Additionally I use a water cooled hot end Which also avoids any extra air movement from the Hot end cooling fan. And a much more consistent Print at the higher temperatures. . Water cooling also avoids any filament jams from heat creep at the high temperatures.
Excellent information! I have to ask since I’ve barely scratched the surface on using different filament types. What is the driver that has you using this? I’d think it’s important considering a water cooled hot-end, etc…. Thank you!
@@TheJacklwilliams "What is the driver that has you using this?" I'm not quite sure understand this question. Are you referring to my water cooled hot end ? Because if you are the system is one I designed myself. And does not require a "driver"
Nice set up and explanation for the high temp / hard nozzle modifications.
holy balls dude, that was a lot of tests. you get a like and a subscribe just for the effort.
Great video. Your test methodology is really good; very well done !
Thank you for this test! I have a spool of Prusament PC-CF waiting to be tested on my Bambu x1-Carbon, which just arrived a few days ago 😊
Results?
@@alycapo3391 also bambu here but seems much stronger then in this video. Tested 10mm theards and could not destroy.
@@kamillucow3062 what brand pc/cf did you use on the bambu? The prusa is never in stock since it came out so Im looking for a pc/cf alternative.
Grateful for another informational video
This could not have come at a better time as I was actually looking online at my list of preferred manufacturers for PC-CF and PETG-CF and NYLON-CF when the notification came for your video, I was surpised to learn that with Prusament you dont get a full 1Kg of material but the combined weight of the spool and the filament is 1Kg, is this typical of most manufacturers, I had assumed that I have been getting 1Kg of filament and after just weighing a roll of Esun filament I get a full 1Kg of material although my regular filament brand is Ziro but I dont have a full roll at the moment to check.
I have bought Prusament in the past but just because of particular colour I needed, I feel conned and if this practice is the same with the regular Prusament in PLA and PETG I wont be buying anymore.
Prusament filament is listed as net weight. PLA and PETG are listed as 1kg. ASA for example is 850g due to it being a less dense material. So you are not getting less volume, a spool of ASA will print the same amount as a spool of PLA.
I like your videos. :) Many greetings from Germany.
If you happen to use the satin PEI bed plate, then glue stick is not required for PC Blend CF. It also prints near perfect using standard prusa slicer profile. Impressive !
Prusa still recommends glue stick on the satin bed plate to avoid damaging it.
Thank you for sharing the results of your excellent tests; good job on your tensile test fixturing for avoiding application of moments.
It would be really nice if in addition to the tensile failure loads you could also give the strength values.
This is my favorite filament. I use it for anything mechanical
Damn pc'cf is amazing
IMO, you shouldn't use part cooling when printing PCCF. That could be the cause for that weak layer adhesion. I only use a bit of part cooling for bridges.
I will try to print those two vertical test object without cooling, I will add results in description or as post on RUclips. Prusa Slicer default setting turns 20% fan on those 45° overhangs.
Prusa themself seems to think so....
Regarding your videos about the food safety of 3d printed parts, does the high deformation temperature of this material make sterilization possible? It seems like you could boil or even autoclave these parts and avoid the problems with bacterial growth in between layers.
Yes, I gave a plan to test them in autoclave. This and Engineering Filaticum.
Is it possible to make a compression comparison between PC CF and Nylon CF? That would be really interesting to see
This test is in progress (with Prusament PA11) 2 more weeks, when creep test ends...
@@MyTechFun Awesome! Can’t wait for the results! Did you make your own test jig?
Nice
My Hevort parts consumed two spools of PCCF, printed at 285/110/~50. The higher chamber temps helped a lot with layer adhesion. When we pushed to ~60° chamber, the layer adhesion went insane. Supports became super hard to remove and the parts became almost unbreakable by hand. Also, it is quite hydroscopic and became much stronger once dried. Overall a good material, but I don't like that they used cheap carbon instead of high modulus fibers. The modulus of this material is barely higher than the unfilled PC Blend, so I don't think that the price is justified.
What is the strongest most unbreakable filament with a 300 degree printer and an enclosure, in your opinion?
@@DKFX1 highly depends on your application. If you just want your parts to be "unbreakable", go with TPU. A good PP might also work. If your parts need to be stiff but aren't loaded constantly, PACF might work. For printer parts, go with PCCF. Whats your application like?
@@danieldeutschen Application would vary, but something like wind turbines and crossbow limbs.
@@DKFX1 @Sabertooth Turtle crossbow limbs: just go with ASA, should be fine. If you want them so look nice, you might go with PACF.
Wind turbines: no idea what load that would be😅 do you have example parts or so?
Id be very interested in a comparison of different cf filaments. Ideally with the same amount of fibers. I like cf petg and I'm not sure if pa or pc would be a significant improvement (considerig price and hydroscopy)
Great video!
I was wondering if the enclosure temp was enough to achive the best layed adhesion, also as others have already said, im not sure if the cooling fan is needed for this engineering grade materials. If each layer can cool in a longer period of time you can get better adhesion on Z axis (this is where enclosure temp can help), CNCKitchen did a video about this. Obviusly if you do this with PLA it will deform, but based on the results of the video i handles temperature really good so you wont be reaching the HDT
Cooling fan is very useful when bridging. I set it to only be on during the first layer of bridging, acting as a sacrificial layer. Cooling fan used during printing of the support interface is also important because it makes removal of supports much easier (I always 100% need this when dealing with Nylon as it's a pita to remove supports otherwise).
I noticed my plain nylon 3d print is stronger than my polymaker pa12-cf print. Is that expected?
There wasn't a screw compression test for these filaments this time :(
Great video, highly detailed experimentations! Witch material you think would be best to use for rope pulleys (for use under water)?
I am not sure at this moment, probably filaments which are less sensitive to moisture (but not sure if same case with water). So probably not Nylon. If temperature is below 30°C even PLA can be used.
Very few people are doing psi tests.
I’m planning to make an air tank and wondering how much psi the cf pc filament can handle.
Hm, yes, I printed some parts which holds 2 bars, but not tested yet to see the limits. If I will figure out some safe and measurable experimenting method I will test few materias.
i have never used this carbon fiber filament, is it carbon fiber dust or powder they add to this PC filament or is it milled CF, if i sent you some Atomic CF filament would u test it, they use milled CF it is very strong
Atomic CF? What is the base material? Polycarbonate or petg? If I will find it in Europe I could buy a spool myself for testing.
@@MyTechFun sorry for the delay i didnt get a notice u replied to me, its Atomic CF PETG they also have it in ABS and PLA and a nylon, but i use the CF PETG the most they have several different colors of this there dark cherry red cf petg looks great
@@3dprintingcave778 I contacted AtomicFilament, I hope they will make positive decision and send me some filaments for testing. If you are from US, you could call them to remind them to answer my email 🙂 atomicfilament.com/pages/contact-us
@@3dprintingcave778 I got the answer from Atomic: "At the moment, we are not providing review products. We do not have a warehouse in EU. We only ship within USA and Canada."
@@MyTechFun i will buy some and send it to you
What is the best material for printing Prusa printer parts if you want to have higher quality than the original PETG? Is the CF PCBlend a good option to have some more headroom with temperatures in the enclosure, or are the specific 3d printing stresses not good for CFPCB?
Not sure about other parts, but I had problems with extruder PETG elements on MK3S inside enclosure. For example PINDA proble holder deformed a little. So I reprinted them from PCblend CF. Great material easy for printing, but you need hardened nozzle and print close to 300C with very minimal part cooling.
If this had better layer-adhesion it would be the perfect filament.
Good mechanical properties, easy to print, and very high temperature resistence.
Maybe they can mix it with something else to fix that one flaw.
If you add cf to a filament the layer adhesion always suffers. But it’s still a very nice filament. Printing it a lot recently.
@@Todestelzer layer adhesion only suffers when they add powder or dust CF find a company that adds milled CF and it will be stronger, like Atomic filament or 3DXtech
Can You test basf ultrafuse pla pro1 filament? Asking because BASF mentiont that it is stronger and can handle 150*C. It is possible?
150°C looks like it is possible, I already tested similar PLA filament ruclips.net/video/uF2_ceBQ40Y/видео.html
@@MyTechFun Awesome! Thanks!
are you using E3D Nozzle X or regular E3D steel hardened nozzle?
Hardened steel E3D V6 Nozzle, it was 27 EUR two years ago (so probably regular)
CHICLAYO PERU 🇵🇪 ⚙ ⚙
PC-CF is the easiest material I have ever printed. You don’t even need an enclosure to print it
Good to know. What sheet do you use? Any adhesives?
@@MyTechFun texture sheet btw u dont need glue for PC-CF on prusa textured sheet . And the filament doesn’t warp while printing . It’s very easy to print .
@@MyTechFun no need for any adhesive if you are using the Textured sheet .
My experience with my PLA is it shrinks about 3%. Well 3% for circles and around 2% for length, width, height.
PLA does shrink, but printers are calibrated to compensate for PLA. (Until geometry undermines that) Theoretically it is possible some plastics would appear to expand, if they shrink less than PLA.
Compare this please to 3dxtech ezpcCF it has double the strength modulus as Prusa version.
I’m printing PC-CF a lot for a customer. Not much shrinking and a nice finish. But expensive….
Have you looked at the addnorth pc blend from Sweden? It has way better stats. Would love to see a real life test.
Great video! are PA6-CF and PA12-CF on the testing pipeline?
Soon I am starting with testing all Polymaker nylon filaments. And then their TPU material
Awesome! Thank you so much!
The Glue Stick is not to help it stick, its to help it release, if you don't use glue stick, you can kiss your bed good by :)
you really should use a silicon socket i never had a temp error again
Do PID at 285 to avoid this issues in the future
Nice job. BUT:
I would run 3 samples of each material, better average result
I still have no idea if I should buy this... :(
The probpen with tour temperature tests is the speed, 10 min to go up 100°C above room temperature is too fast to be representative of real world use, like printer parts
I am clear with it, but this is what I can do with my equipment. But, at least I am doing the same test with all materials, so results are comparable with each other
Yes your tests are the most standard (among themselves) and very comparable.
Only the value won't be comparable to some specific use cases, that's it.
Pc-cF is sound interesting 🤔
those parts didnt look to be printed hot enough maybe it was your part cooling iam not sure, but they do look like they printed at the minimum temp, you should redo this test and print at 295 with zero part cooling
Don't use silicon sock at 300 degC, that will destroy the sock.
I thought the hotter the nozzle gets the more benefit you get from insulating it.
As long as the heat breake works properly so you don't get heat creap.
What is the maximum temperature for an E3D silicone sock?
I've printed at least 3kg at 300 degrees and my socks are fine
@@gnydick My sock degraded very quickly when I used it for printing Prusament PC Blend (270 degC IIRC). And it is a E3D original (standard sock, not "pro").
Yes sock will degrade after 260c
@ E3D original sock: Each sock is made using a non-stick silicone resin, and can be used at a constant temperature of 300C without degradation. Going hotter than 300C is not recommended; this results in slow ageing, and eventual weakness and splitting. The socks are rated to last for at least 100+ hours of use.
PEI doesn't need glue stick.
Electric is expensive I don't print abs or asa too much energy and cost and headaches 😉
Sure, but since I put my prusa in an enclosure I also need less power because of less losses by heat the bed compared to an open printer especially when it turns cold in the shop.
Just wait for the winter 😉
buy a better mic please