I LOOOOVEEE love love love printing PA-CF... it's such an incredible material for so many reasons. I've only recently started printing PC-CF, but enjoying that, too.Thanks for the video!
The eBay IZOD machines aren't going to cut it in terms of articles either. Will be rejected in the same grounds. What we do with custom setups is to just write "custom made device" and calibrate it with known standard.
Most PC filaments are not real PC, but rather PC blends. 3DXtech makes a PC (from Lexan by Sabic) and it has an extrusion temp to 280-310C and it's basically impossible to print anything of size without warping unless you have a heated chamber at 90C+. They also make an "ezPC," which is their version of a PC blend. While these PC blends are much easier to print they don't have the same TG or impact strength of real PC.
Yeah, I was thinking that these temps seem way too low. I wish they would at least clearly state they are blends. I've printed Inland PC on my X1C with the chamber as warm as I can get it (55C or so). That works fine, but I can't vouch for what is in the filament.
Timely video for me Igor. I have just been thinking about PC or Nylon an application so you have supplied some great data at just the right time for me. Thanks!! It seems to me your method of measuring energy loss, is a perfectly satisfactory method for 3D printing purposes.
Great data Igor! Would be interested to see if the nylon properties change after heat treating it (dont like the term "annealing" for polymers...) I've heard that PA can perform better in terms of creep resistance and hardness if heat treated at 120 - 130°c for about an hour per mm of thickness. Would love to see you use your very rigorous test regime to see how muxh dofference it makes!
great video. Both these materials look like they'd be ok for items in your car when parked on a hot day. Really like your test regimen and the post analysis - thanks
Cool work Igor ,thanks for all the test and real data , most people dont known or udestand that there many diferent ways to choose the "stronger" material , for me i always ask for the temperature of the aplication
I've had issue with PACF made toolhead on my printer - after about year it becomes "rubbery"/"springy"/"spongy" so much, it was useless. The one year old parts had totally different properties than it was in its first month. Reprinted from PCCF and never had this issue again.
This is typical behavior. Nylon has a lower elastic modulus than polycarbonate, and water plasticizes (i.e. softens) it. Nylon is hygroscopic, absorbing atmospheric moisture before and after printing.
@BroskisnowskiI'm just saying that flexibility after printing and even after month was still perfectly ok (not too much flexible, just good enough to absorb shocks). But over time, a year in my case, it slowly becomes more and more flexible until it stops being suitable for specified scenario. I'm only writing this just as a reminder even the month of "aging" doesn't have to be enough for comparison when talking about PACF.
@@kmartyCZ yes, this is totally normal behaviour for nylon. Remember that cable ties are nylon, once 3d printed nylon soaks up enough moisture from the environment (how long this takes will vary massively depending on the average humidity in the area where the nylon part is kept) it will eventually become flexible like a cable tie which is definitely not the kind of mechanical properties that are desirable in a toolhead.
Most of those are default settings (layer time too). For the glue, I just followed the instructions. For PC probably it would work without it, but for PA it was necessary.
Hey thanks for the review. I am wondering if you have access to CC3D filament in your country. I see they sell a 72D TPU and Nylon filament. It is a new product from what I can tell. I ordered a roll to see but would like to see some testing on it. It is an interesting mixture. Here is what it says on the Amazon posting. Ultrahard 72D Composite Material of TPU and Nylon Filament from CC3D. Thanks
Sounds interesting, I like hard tpu-s. (you will see my wearing test comming soon). Hm, I can see it is available only on amazon.com. The shipping and customs would cost me 2x more :-( Somebody let me know, if it is available in EU somewhere. thx.
I believe you won't see the real properties of PC [blends] before annealing the prints. How to anneal them depends on info from the manufacturer, and if a manufacturer doesn't provide such info this means that the filament (or manufacturer) is garbage. It's a pity that none of these filament types are useful at all for 3D printer parts. PA-CF creeps a ton and PC (CF or regular) cracks over short time. I have bad experience with both and they are a waste of money and energy to buy and print unless you have specific use for it.
For creep resistance, it would need continuous fibers, or at least a large fraction/percentage of long chopped fibers, aligned in the load direction. A small fraction of short fibers barely improves creep resistance, because the deficiency in Nylon/matrix performance dominates.
nylon changes its properties after saturation of humidity (less brittle, more flexible). it means nylon parts right after the printing should have slightly different properties than after few days. have you observed such changes in your tests?
Thank you, I've been wanting to see a review of the YXpolyer Nylon-CF for a long time. I usually use Matterhackers NylonX, which is very expensive. I don't believe you've reviewed NylonX, please consider doing so in the future, that would be extremely helpful to determine if the price premium is worth it.
Heat creep is the big no no for me with PA. But there is still PAHT cf from different companies which uses Luvocom Pellets (this is important), apparently it has next to no heat creep and looks very promising. Esun, Lehvoss (manufacturer of the pellets), BASF are brands which use Luvocom pellets. Maybe you could test this one.
Eh, so many request I got for filaments available only in US. Shipping and customs make the price 3x bigger to me. But I became curious, several requests I got for this brand.
@@MyTechFun good filaments in the EU that are similar to 3dxtech pccf are essentium pps-cf and addnorth / treeD pc-pbt-cf. these are the 3 high temp filaments recommended for printer parts above abs but before PEEK or metal.
Very curious about creep tests, but with compression on the material. To be able to determine how much the part keeps its dimensions when under compression. Is this something you can test?
Very nice video and really interesting materials to me as well. I am considering the PC CF as less creep/deformation under load is more important to me. Prusament PCCF has higher heat resistance as I can see from your Patreon excel sheet, but 110C is still fine for my applications and this YXpolyer PC-CF has better interlayer andhesion it seems. Although layer adhesion difference could be also the different chamber setup you used (Bambulab vs Prusa MK3 in LACK enclosure) Keep up the good work and great videos! Quick question: Have you ever tested the heat resistance of extrudr GreenTec or GreenTec Pro materials?
I tested annealed (according to their instructions)Prusa PCCf for 3 hours in an oven at work, still good at 130C, but at 150C it was a bit flexible. Will try Addnorths PCCF next with HDT @ 185degC, the spool is waiting on the shelf :) i also use PCCf for the same reasons, stiffness and creep are very important for mechanical stuff, especially when they are screwed together for example.
I don't know the length, but they cannot be continous, they would clog the nozzle. They are designed for using on 0.4 mm nozzle, so their size is below this
Mentioned in the video, according to manufacturer, 0.4mm is OK. (and good question, since many CF filaments requires 0.6mm nozzle). But even if don't, if you don't need details, use 0.6mm, since it will wear slower.
I have an application where I print threads M16-1.5 bolt and nut and when I use PLA the threads do ok, but PLA CF the torque applied using PLA breaks for the PLA cf. do you have a recommendation on what is the best material for printing threads ? I really enjoy your videos I too am and mechanical engineer, but I deal in matching metal. Thanks
10:30 No, your setup isn't accurate at all, because once the material starts bending there's an additional element of friction between the material and the head of the hammer. You can see it particularly clearly on bendy materials that don't break at all. I think I once even saw your hammer get stuck on the bent material.
But that is the case with all hammers. I tried few. Then we shouldn't do the IZOD impact tests at all with plastic? I would have less work if I skip this part.
I LOOOOVEEE love love love printing PA-CF... it's such an incredible material for so many reasons. I've only recently started printing PC-CF, but enjoying that, too.Thanks for the video!
What brand are you using?
The eBay IZOD machines aren't going to cut it in terms of articles either. Will be rejected in the same grounds. What we do with custom setups is to just write "custom made device" and calibrate it with known standard.
Once again valued information you have provided I am new to 3D printing so I really do appreciate your time and work, thanks.
Most PC filaments are not real PC, but rather PC blends. 3DXtech makes a PC (from Lexan by Sabic) and it has an extrusion temp to 280-310C and it's basically impossible to print anything of size without warping unless you have a heated chamber at 90C+. They also make an "ezPC," which is their version of a PC blend. While these PC blends are much easier to print they don't have the same TG or impact strength of real PC.
Yeah, I was thinking that these temps seem way too low. I wish they would at least clearly state they are blends.
I've printed Inland PC on my X1C with the chamber as warm as I can get it (55C or so). That works fine, but I can't vouch for what is in the filament.
I tried to contact 3DXtech if they want to send me some filaments for the testing, but I can't find any contact on their website.
I will say that after the previous review I picked up some of the XYPolymer PA as the price is very reasonable, and have been happy with it.
Timely video for me Igor. I have just been thinking about PC or Nylon an application so you have supplied some great data at just the right time for me.
Thanks!!
It seems to me your method of measuring energy loss, is a perfectly satisfactory method for 3D printing purposes.
Great data Igor! Would be interested to see if the nylon properties change after heat treating it (dont like the term "annealing" for polymers...)
I've heard that PA can perform better in terms of creep resistance and hardness if heat treated at 120 - 130°c for about an hour per mm of thickness. Would love to see you use your very rigorous test regime to see how muxh dofference it makes!
great video. Both these materials look like they'd be ok for items in your car when parked on a hot day. Really like your test regimen and the post analysis - thanks
Cool work Igor ,thanks for all the test and real data , most people dont known or udestand that there many diferent ways to choose the "stronger" material , for me i always ask for the temperature of the aplication
Awesome stuff, thank you so much!
brillian tests as always, thank you
I've had issue with PACF made toolhead on my printer - after about year it becomes "rubbery"/"springy"/"spongy" so much, it was useless. The one year old parts had totally different properties than it was in its first month.
Reprinted from PCCF and never had this issue again.
This is typical behavior. Nylon has a lower elastic modulus than polycarbonate, and water plasticizes (i.e. softens) it. Nylon is hygroscopic, absorbing atmospheric moisture before and after printing.
@BroskisnowskiI'm just saying that flexibility after printing and even after month was still perfectly ok (not too much flexible, just good enough to absorb shocks). But over time, a year in my case, it slowly becomes more and more flexible until it stops being suitable for specified scenario.
I'm only writing this just as a reminder even the month of "aging" doesn't have to be enough for comparison when talking about PACF.
@@kmartyCZ yes, this is totally normal behaviour for nylon. Remember that cable ties are nylon, once 3d printed nylon soaks up enough moisture from the environment (how long this takes will vary massively depending on the average humidity in the area where the nylon part is kept) it will eventually become flexible like a cable tie which is definitely not the kind of mechanical properties that are desirable in a toolhead.
Great comparison! Notes: Wow 2s for minimum layer time very short. I would go to at least 5-6sec. Also textured sheet dont need glue
Most of those are default settings (layer time too). For the glue, I just followed the instructions. For PC probably it would work without it, but for PA it was necessary.
I would love to see heated chamber VS non heated for this 2 materials. I think it will show us the limit of what we can get with FDM right now, no?
Great data! Thank you!!
Hey thanks for the review. I am wondering if you have access to CC3D filament in your country. I see they sell a 72D TPU and Nylon filament. It is a new product from what I can tell. I ordered a roll to see but would like to see some testing on it. It is an interesting mixture. Here is what it says on the Amazon posting. Ultrahard 72D Composite Material of TPU and Nylon Filament from CC3D. Thanks
I'd like to see testing for a 72D tpu.
Sounds interesting, I like hard tpu-s. (you will see my wearing test comming soon). Hm, I can see it is available only on amazon.com. The shipping and customs would cost me 2x more :-( Somebody let me know, if it is available in EU somewhere. thx.
Great video. great tests. Thank you for sharing
The carbon fiber nylons should really be tested for these conditions after they are annealed at 100C for 12+ hours.
I believe you won't see the real properties of PC [blends] before annealing the prints. How to anneal them depends on info from the manufacturer, and if a manufacturer doesn't provide such info this means that the filament (or manufacturer) is garbage.
It's a pity that none of these filament types are useful at all for 3D printer parts. PA-CF creeps a ton and PC (CF or regular) cracks over short time. I have bad experience with both and they are a waste of money and energy to buy and print unless you have specific use for it.
I would really love to find a nylon with the resistance to creep that the polycarbonate shows. But I guess such a thing does not exist.
It can't
PPA,PA6T
For creep resistance, it would need continuous fibers, or at least a large fraction/percentage of long chopped fibers, aligned in the load direction. A small fraction of short fibers barely improves creep resistance, because the deficiency in Nylon/matrix performance dominates.
Thanks for the videos!
you got a sub, great video, does your patreon include a table comparsion (all in one) from all your videos?
Yes it does! And you can easily finlter or change the order for only one specs, for example, which filament resists the best to the bending.. etc.
I see you have bambu and qidi, how do you compare them when it comes to printing from technical filaments? What are the pros and cons, I hope?
Good stuff!
nylon changes its properties after saturation of humidity (less brittle, more flexible). it means nylon parts right after the printing should have slightly different properties than after few days. have you observed such changes in your tests?
Thank you, I've been wanting to see a review of the YXpolyer Nylon-CF for a long time. I usually use Matterhackers NylonX, which is very expensive. I don't believe you've reviewed NylonX, please consider doing so in the future, that would be extremely helpful to determine if the price premium is worth it.
Heat creep is the big no no for me with PA. But there is still PAHT cf from different companies which uses Luvocom Pellets (this is important), apparently it has next to no heat creep and looks very promising.
Esun, Lehvoss (manufacturer of the pellets), BASF are brands which use Luvocom pellets.
Maybe you could test this one.
do you think you'll ever try polycarbonate and nylon from 3dxtech? the good ones not the ones mixed to be printed better
Tnx
Eh, so many request I got for filaments available only in US. Shipping and customs make the price 3x bigger to me. But I became curious, several requests I got for this brand.
@@MyTechFun good filaments in the EU that are similar to 3dxtech pccf are essentium pps-cf and addnorth / treeD pc-pbt-cf. these are the 3 high temp filaments recommended for printer parts above abs but before PEEK or metal.
If you make bicycle handlebars, which one do you recommend?
Very curious about creep tests, but with compression on the material. To be able to determine how much the part keeps its dimensions when under compression. Is this something you can test?
Very nice video and really interesting materials to me as well. I am considering the PC CF as less creep/deformation under load is more important to me. Prusament PCCF has higher heat resistance as I can see from your Patreon excel sheet, but 110C is still fine for my applications and this YXpolyer PC-CF has better interlayer andhesion it seems. Although layer adhesion difference could be also the different chamber setup you used (Bambulab vs Prusa MK3 in LACK enclosure) Keep up the good work and great videos! Quick question: Have you ever tested the heat resistance of extrudr GreenTec or GreenTec Pro materials?
I tested annealed (according to their instructions)Prusa PCCf for 3 hours in an oven at work, still good at 130C, but at 150C it was a bit flexible. Will try Addnorths PCCF next with HDT @ 185degC, the spool is waiting on the shelf :) i also use PCCf for the same reasons, stiffness and creep are very important for mechanical stuff, especially when they are screwed together for example.
I have a quastion. Have you ever tested or heard anything about filament PC+PTFE and how this material behave compared to PTFE (not filament)?
No, not yet
i love Your videos as always, is there any plans in the future switch to resin printer to test thouse test?
Why are you always print with fans? It reduces layer adhesion. I always print without fans for the most strength
Can you test ASA please? ASA has the advantage being lighter than other materials
YXPolyer ASA or any ASA? I already tested many other ASA filaments..
Hey, I want to ask, will polycarbonate filament without carbon be weaker?, because I want to make a 3D printed bicycle frame, thanks for the video
In most cases it would be stronger (except when orientation of fibers helps, like bending, impact). But it is much harder for 3D printing. Warps a lot
Hi, do you know the length of CF pieces? Or are they continuous strings?
I don't know the length, but they cannot be continous, they would clog the nozzle. They are designed for using on 0.4 mm nozzle, so their size is below this
PVB is getting more attention, can you test it and compare to PLA?
Did you print on .4mm or you nossle or you change it to .6mm? I have both, but if I don't have to swap it it is better!
Mentioned in the video, according to manufacturer, 0.4mm is OK. (and good question, since many CF filaments requires 0.6mm nozzle). But even if don't, if you don't need details, use 0.6mm, since it will wear slower.
@@MyTechFun thanks for the info. But those prints, did you use .4 or .6mm? Cause that will change the results too.
0.4mm@@JoseAguiloworkshops
Can carbon materials be printed and used in the home? Is it not harmful?
There are no information about that it's harmful. Probably it is in the filament manufacturing (that carbon powder). Just don't eat it ;-)
@@MyTechFun Ok I think it is not palatable :D I thought of micro carbon fiber. By the way thanks for the great channel about 3d printing
I have an application where I print threads M16-1.5 bolt and nut and when I use PLA the threads do ok, but PLA CF the torque applied using PLA breaks for the PLA cf. do you have a recommendation on what is the best material for printing threads ? I really enjoy your videos I too am and mechanical engineer, but
I deal in matching metal. Thanks
In this order probably: PC, ABS, PETG. But with PC and ABS you have to take in account the shrinking of the material.
@@MyTechFun thanks. I will give it a try and let you know.
Is the nylon used by YXpolyer PA12 or PPA or a mix? Able to disclose?
PA6
good
Davis David Moore Melissa Moore Jose
Seems like a promising brand with terrible distribution :(
Amazong stuff
10:30 No, your setup isn't accurate at all, because once the material starts bending there's an additional element of friction between the material and the head of the hammer. You can see it particularly clearly on bendy materials that don't break at all. I think I once even saw your hammer get stuck on the bent material.
But that is the case with all hammers. I tried few. Then we shouldn't do the IZOD impact tests at all with plastic? I would have less work if I skip this part.
If you were going to make surfboard fins which would you recommend?
PETG. I have a relative who makes small fish feeding RC boats out of PETG (after many experimenting)