Prusament PC Blend - The strongest material I tested!

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  • Опубликовано: 20 янв 2025

Комментарии • 482

  • @CNCKitchen
    @CNCKitchen  3 года назад +78

    Polycarbonate?! Is there a need for these technical materials in 3D printing?
    Don't forget to like & subscribe and share this video on Facebook, Reddit, Twitter, and other platforms!

    • @AwesomeMau5Heads
      @AwesomeMau5Heads 3 года назад +1

      It's mixed with pbt per their MSDS.

    • @AwesomeMau5Heads
      @AwesomeMau5Heads 3 года назад +2

      Also push plastics sells it in America for 50$ a kilo. Goes down to 30$ a kilo of bought in bulk.

    • @AwesomeMau5Heads
      @AwesomeMau5Heads 3 года назад +1

      I also print with it exclusively.

    • @theheadone
      @theheadone 3 года назад +6

      Please check out Priline PC-CF. I've been using that stuff for a couple years now (I think it's only available on amazon) I'm a mechanical engineer and I use this stuff for everything (mounts, brackets, etc.) I print this using my prusa mk3 and Railcore using profiles for prusaslicer for atomic CF-PETG. Thank you for your amazing content! It helps to educate me and allows me to help make proper decisions for my engineering models!

    • @joshsekel
      @joshsekel 3 года назад +6

      So would you consider using this for Voron parts given the strength and heat properties? I wonder how PC creeps? That would make a great test series, the creep characteristics of different materials. Also how common lubricants effect strength over time.
      We really need you to become a full time you tuber so you can answer all the questions!

  • @forestbirdoriginals4917
    @forestbirdoriginals4917 3 года назад +91

    I was always told to increase the temp by 10 degrees for steel nozzles for what that’s worth, I also confirmed my A2 nozzles and Nozzle X benefit from this on all materials

    • @stevenmcculloch5727
      @stevenmcculloch5727 3 года назад +11

      Yeah the prints from the steel nozzle are weaker because the extruded plastic is colder. Steel is less conductive so heat transfer into the material is slower.

    • @seanwieland9763
      @seanwieland9763 3 года назад +2

      Yes, steel doesn’t retain heat as well as brass.

    • @Ebonyqwe
      @Ebonyqwe 3 года назад +6

      Interesting, if this is well known then Prusa slicer needs to add in the choice of material for hotend

    • @stevenmcculloch5727
      @stevenmcculloch5727 3 года назад

      @@Ebonyqwe This could easily lead to confusion if the actual printing temp is set to be different from the one desired.

    • @Ebonyqwe
      @Ebonyqwe 3 года назад +1

      @@stevenmcculloch5727 im not sure how it could be so confusing.

  • @coltonmccormack8978
    @coltonmccormack8978 3 года назад +96

    I greatly appreciate your focus on exotic engineering filaments and testing procedures. You've been an excellent resource for supplementing my design process for functional parts. Cheers.

    • @seanwieland9763
      @seanwieland9763 3 года назад +1

      I hope that polycarbonate blends won’t be considered “exotic” much longer.

    • @coltonmccormack8978
      @coltonmccormack8978 3 года назад +1

      @@seanwieland9763 Agreed. Though I wasn't necessarily talking about this specific filament, but rather his channel in general. I am cautiously optimistic that PC will replace ABS as my "go to" functional filament. I tend to print pretty large prints (machine parts, jigs, robot chassis) and even in my 50C chamber printer I get a bit too much warp for fitment on parts with my current PC. PC-CF is pretty stable, though. Might have to add active heating.

    • @kerbodynamicx472
      @kerbodynamicx472 2 года назад

      @@coltonmccormack8978 I want to try PC-CF but it is kinda expensive and requires hardened nozzles. Yeah, I wish polycarbonate should become a common filament along with PLA and PETG. There are some properties of ABS that just suck, its smell and its low tensile strength. PC is far stronger than ABS and should be appreciated more!

  • @marsgizmo
    @marsgizmo 3 года назад +73

    Love the in-depth review!
    It's remarkable how many hours you put into testing.

  • @coltonmccormack8978
    @coltonmccormack8978 3 года назад +140

    It looks like Prusa just changed the formula on this 3 days ago and it is now less dense. I wonder how much that affects its properties. From Prusa: "Prusament PC Blend has a new formula since 9. 6. 2021 The material density is now slightly lower than before, resulting in a minimal spool weight of 970 g. The approximate length of the filament is 330 m - the same length as the standard Prusament."

    • @wervelstroom
      @wervelstroom 3 года назад +15

      Prusament PC blend in the original formula was the ultimate filament for gears!!! I hope that changing the formula does not make it less good...

    • @CNCKitchen
      @CNCKitchen  3 года назад +59

      Thanks for the information. Might need to consider re-testing a couple of properties.

    • @ajudge8786
      @ajudge8786 3 года назад +17

      @@CNCKitchen you should also try the new Prusament PCCF (PC Blend+Carbon fiber)

    • @gg-gn3re
      @gg-gn3re 3 года назад +7

      so you get jipped 30grams? wow

    • @The0nionKnight
      @The0nionKnight 3 года назад +3

      @@wervelstroom Taulman Alloy 910 is the best for gears.

  • @infernaldaedra
    @infernaldaedra 3 года назад +66

    Stronger filaments will always be useful for prototyping and functional parts. I'd love to see an engineering materials strength test and comparison. PEEK ,PEKK PEEK blends, PC, Carbon Fiber variants!

    • @xxxm981
      @xxxm981 3 года назад +4

      Especially stuff like PEEK.... sadly i don´t think he has a high temp Printer you would need for that

    • @infernaldaedra
      @infernaldaedra 3 года назад +2

      @@xxxm981 I think slice engineering and volcano make hotends for it but maybe he could have test parts printed by VisionMiner or something because they never seem to do strength tests.

    • @Fluffehfox
      @Fluffehfox 3 года назад +6

      @@infernaldaedra i would love it if VisionMiner did standarized test instead of burn crush

    • @mophie6941
      @mophie6941 3 года назад

      Yea but to be fair getting the high temp for PEEK is the least of your problem with this material 😅😅

    • @infernaldaedra
      @infernaldaedra 3 года назад

      @@mophie6941 Okay but how strong are the parts between the different blends and polymers?

  • @Bajotaz
    @Bajotaz 3 года назад +283

    "Not everyone needs a 1kg spool" ... Me looking for 10kg spools...

    • @zakariakhamees
      @zakariakhamees 3 года назад +9

      10 kg! Are you printing a house or what? 🤣

    • @ogxoutcast69
      @ogxoutcast69 3 года назад +27

      @@zakariakhamees 1kg with a .8 nozzle is like nothing

    • @zakariakhamees
      @zakariakhamees 3 года назад +3

      @@ogxoutcast69 That makes sense 👍🏻

    • @thor_269
      @thor_269 3 года назад +7

      I'm over here ordering multiple 2kg spools of PETG, because I just print so much

    • @nukularpictures
      @nukularpictures 3 года назад +5

      @@zakariakhamees I mean if you do a lot of technical stuff why not? Some projects of mine require several kg of plastic and with a E3D SuperVulcano it is not a problem. With a 1mm nozzle I get over 50mm^3 / s of material flow and over 70mm^3/s with 1.2mm. So given the denstiy of plastics is usually between 1.2g/cm^3 - 1.4g/cm^3 I run between 220g/h (50mm^2/s and 1.2g/cm^3) and 350g/h (70mm^2 and 1.4g/cm^3).
      In theory the SuperVulcano can go over 100mm^3/s but that requires the 1.4mm nozzle and I find that too big.
      But yeah for technical prints 1kg spools can be a bit of a joke. Just does not last long enough.

  • @alchemistTi
    @alchemistTi 3 года назад +72

    I’m guessing 10-15 degrees hotter with a steel nozzle will bring the results inline.

    • @INSOMNIAC205
      @INSOMNIAC205 3 года назад +1

      Jup, very likely. On my first printer i usually had to up them by 5-10°C after installing a SS nozzle. But that's what i would expect to be the crulpit in this case too.
      But i'm sure Stefan will figure that out way more excessive and in detail in the close future. 🤣

    • @DrakeMem
      @DrakeMem 3 года назад

      yup, I was gonna say

    • @Lucas_sGarage
      @Lucas_sGarage 3 года назад

      I wonder what would happend with a copper nozzle.... Or if u are rich a gold one

    • @namAehT
      @namAehT 3 года назад +5

      In my experiance printing with the E3D Nozzel-X I needed to raise the temps by 10-20 degrees to get good results. Switching to a copper heat block (from the stock aluminium) negated this.

  • @JT-Works
    @JT-Works 2 года назад +5

    Where is the Prudament PC Carbon Fiber video? You mentioned it was coming soon, 7 months ago. Eitherway, thanks for all you do for the 3D printing community.

  • @fluxcapacitor
    @fluxcapacitor Год назад +4

    08:28 What happened to the "review of the carbon fiber variant of PC Blend" that was coming "pretty soon", since June 2021?

    • @ultramegax
      @ultramegax Год назад

      I'm wondering the same thing... I'm searching for it, to no avail.

  • @HybridRobotix
    @HybridRobotix Год назад

    I really like your filament analysis videos! They are very useful in helping me choose filament for specific uses.

  • @Nerlin
    @Nerlin 3 года назад +39

    For the hardened steel, I thought you need a higher temperature to get the same results.

    • @yathani
      @yathani 3 года назад +9

      Yes, 5 to 10 C above brass.

    • @spedi6721
      @spedi6721 3 года назад +3

      I use a hardened steel one for carbon filament. Printing my standard filament, I have to raise 5 to 10 degrees and also reduce the speed a little bit to avoid clogging

    • @wervelstroom
      @wervelstroom 3 года назад +1

      For PC Blend 10C higher

    • @CNCKitchen
      @CNCKitchen  3 года назад +10

      There are some rumors but I haven't stumbled upon any real data.

    • @severdislike4222
      @severdislike4222 3 года назад +6

      @@CNCKitchen what I am hearing is "I have a new materials testing video for hardened steel nozzles" coming out at some point in time!

  • @PutTheKettleOnGromit
    @PutTheKettleOnGromit 3 года назад +1

    Thank you for the video. Great as always. Cheers Mate.
    I print with PC Blend on my Prusa MK3S eoth the hardened steel nozzle. I had to increase the nozzle temperature by 5 to 10C. I also print within an enclosure as I print large parts and warping is possible without an enclosure.

  • @FedericoAlbano83
    @FedericoAlbano83 3 года назад +5

    Thanks for the nice video as usual! I use a tungsten carbide nozzle and to me it was life changing: no thermal issue or difference with brass, but no wear out at all, even after kilos of PA-CF. I see you mostly don t mention tungsten carbide nozzles, but it is a superb addition to my machines

    • @malcolmm799
      @malcolmm799 3 года назад +1

      same, tungsten is the way to go

  • @randomname4726
    @randomname4726 11 месяцев назад

    You are truly an asset to the 3D Printing community!

  • @rohitkrishnan4429
    @rohitkrishnan4429 3 года назад

    Dude.. You work so HARD!! WOW.
    I'm probably a step below beginner at this point and its so encouraging to see the information that you and so many other folks have already put out! Thank you.

  • @BitSmythe
    @BitSmythe 3 года назад

    All your analyses are more detailed than I could ever have imagined!

  • @jaakkopontinen
    @jaakkopontinen 3 года назад

    Stefan, you're the genuine article 👍 Keep it up and greetings from Finland.

  • @henricoderre
    @henricoderre 3 года назад

    The perfect winding is what I noticed when you showed the spool of black PC filament. I thought you rewinded it that way. WOW. Compared to other filament makers this is really neat.

  • @properprinting
    @properprinting 3 года назад +1

    Interesting video! I had similar issues with hardened nozzles. Even standard Nylon became brittle and weak. Therefore I use Microswiss's plated nozzles mostly or DyzeDesign's tungsten nozzles. The latter don't fit a regular hotend though. I haven't tried the ruby nozzle yet which might be interesting to put to the test.

  • @BladeWalker91
    @BladeWalker91 3 года назад +7

    So what I'm hearing is that we need a comprehensive guide on different types of nozzle materials and types, from simple brass and steel, to fancy stuff, like brass with sapphire tip, or nickel plated copper. Looking forward to it

  • @dharmix
    @dharmix 2 года назад +8

    what happened to the prusament PC CF review?

  • @alexc_88-o9f
    @alexc_88-o9f 3 года назад +3

    I would LOVE to see a video with some comparisons of print strengths with different nozzle types. It surely makes sense that it would produce different results as the different materials nozzles would be made of have different specific heat values, and would probably transfer heat to the plastic in different ways.

  • @RCGrid
    @RCGrid 3 года назад +14

    Have you ever tried testing 3DXTech brand filament? They’re supposed to have some of the best mechanical properties for each type of filament they offer, along with the benefit of being easy to print

  • @davidg5898
    @davidg5898 3 года назад +2

    I'd love to see a comparison of nozzles made of different materials. I never really gave it any thought before, but you're absolutely right that different metals' thermal properties would affect the result.

  • @gunnerpetrea3531
    @gunnerpetrea3531 3 года назад +2

    I have noticed the difference between nozzle types before with clear PETG. Using a nickel plated copper nozzle the print is glossy and semi-transparent, while using a steel nozzle the print has a matte look and is almost white instead of semi-transparent. There is also enough of an impact on layer adhesion that I can feel the difference with my hands on thin walled parts. I think the benefit of using a nozzle with higher thermal conductivity vs. just increasing the temperature is that a nozzle with higher conductivity allows you to print with a larger range of speeds during the same print. If the temperature is increased for a steel nozzle, the filament will start to degrade faster at slower speeds when the thermal conductivity is less of an issue. I am also not 100% sure that temperature is the only factor, since after increasing the temperature with a steel nozzle I looked at the top layer surface using a microscope and compared the steel nozzle to the nickel plated copper nozzle. To me it looked like the part printed with the nickel plated nozzle was much smoother at a small scale. Almost as if the rougher surface finish or higher plastic adhesion properties of the steel nozzle caused the layer surface to be rougher. This could then cause tiny air bubbles to get trapped inside the layers as the next layer is put down, reducing the layer adhesion strength.

  • @nezihmertbolgul3605
    @nezihmertbolgul3605 3 года назад +14

    In my opinion, strength decrease due to steel nozzle is because of very low thermal conductivity of steels. Brass has about 120 W/mK thermal conductivity while steels has around 15-80 W/mK. I experience the same problem with my ruby nozzle and to solve that, i print slower and hotter then the normal brass nozzle with ruby. This subject could be a video topic for you :)
    You may want to catch up brass nozzle printed part's strength by slowing down steel nozzle printed parts speed and compare the results.

    • @Crazyates11
      @Crazyates11 3 года назад

      I had this same thought the other day. We know that printing hotter can increase strength, but too hot can degrade a filament. What about printing at the higher end of a temp range, but super slow? You want to melt the plastic as thoroughly as possible, but not destroy it.

    • @cruduskellies
      @cruduskellies 3 года назад

      I wonder if a tungsten carbide one would preform the same as a hardened steel nozzle.

    • @erikhellman3974
      @erikhellman3974 3 года назад

      This is the correct answer. For steel nozzles you have to increase temps 5-10 degrees and sometimes print a bit slower (depends on how fast you are already printing). I wish he had increased the temp for these tests

    • @haysoos123
      @haysoos123 3 года назад +1

      @@cruduskellies tungsten carbide performs almost exactly like brass, which is why I prefer it over hardened steel. It’s more expensive though.

    • @cruduskellies
      @cruduskellies 3 года назад

      @@haysoos123 thats good to know! I definitely think I might do that.

  • @remthompson
    @remthompson 3 года назад +23

    I've heard before that with Nylon drying it prior to printing creates best results for quality, but in the printed state to achieve best results, the printed part should be allowed to reabsorb moisture prior to use. Is it possible there is a similar property with PC?

    • @BRUXXUS
      @BRUXXUS 3 года назад

      Maybe? Although, this stuff seems to have been designed not to absorb much. Worth thinking about, for sure!

    • @steffenb3306
      @steffenb3306 3 года назад +4

      PC will not improve its properties after printing by absorbing moisture.
      Nylon indeed does not improve uts properties. It just loses stiffness and therefore is less brittle.
      Which may or may not be an advantage, depending on your application.

    • @csdstudio78
      @csdstudio78 3 года назад +1

      Been printing with pc blend for over a year, it sits out in my basement with no moisture issues. I love this stuff.

    • @CNCKitchen
      @CNCKitchen  3 года назад +9

      Water is acting as a plasticiser in Polyamides, so it makes them tougher. Afaik this is NOT the case with PC and also the overall moisture uptake is way smaller.

    • @steffenb3306
      @steffenb3306 3 года назад

      @@CNCKitchen Hey Stefan, ich hätte die Möglichkeit zu messen welches Material bei Prusa eingeblendet wird, habe aber kein Filament ;-)

  • @SodalisUK
    @SodalisUK 3 года назад +4

    Stefan's scientific approach is extremely valuable - and so far at least apparently unique. Those is the "go to" channel for genuinely science-based reviews.

  • @JATMN
    @JATMN 3 года назад

    Very interesting results.. Think this is the first PC that I have seen that actually stands up to moisture. Will be keeping this material in mind for future projects.

  • @theshiznojudge
    @theshiznojudge 3 года назад +2

    This is why I use tungsten nozzles. Better thermal conductivity than brass (170w/mk vs 110) and it's naturally a hard material. I haven't done any strength tests of nozzle material and temp. Would be interesting to see the showdown.

  • @lovecastle7154
    @lovecastle7154 3 года назад +19

    The brass nozzle wore out and so was wider than the steel, this is why adhesion was improved. If you added an extrusion multiplier to the steel nozzle you’d get the same effect

    • @SilkyWayFPV
      @SilkyWayFPV Год назад +3

      I would also say due to the worse heat dissipation you should use 5-10 degrees higher temperature. I also found layer adhesion is worse when same print temp is used

  • @Dramaican88
    @Dramaican88 3 года назад +3

    For the nozzle material observation it has been observed in the past and mostly attributed to thermal conductivity. I think it is a combination of thermal conductivity, thermal capacity of the nozzle material and internal surface finish. The process of hardening the steel after machining I think affects the internal surface finish. Less smooth finish internally for the nozzle usually means less fully melted material. You can easily get matt finish PLA prints with a hardened steel nozzle because of this. This is also why I think nickel plated copper nozzles are the best type of nozzles for engineering materials that are not abrassive. It would be interesting if you compared E3D nozzles brass, nickel plated copper, hardened steel, nozzleX and slice engineering vanadium nozzles. Also looking forward to the PC CF Prusament results.

  • @axeldios9036
    @axeldios9036 3 года назад

    Keep up the good work, as usual good testing, and through information

  • @3DMusketeers
    @3DMusketeers 3 года назад

    Great comparison between brass and hardened steel. because steel does not conduct heat as well, this is expected. It is also why we run the hardened nozzles at least 10C above their brass counterparts!

  • @zakariakhamees
    @zakariakhamees 3 года назад +2

    Its definitely the thermal properties of the nozzle that affects layer adhesion. From your test, the brass nozzle almost got double the performance of the steel one for layer adhesion. This makes sense because the thermal conductivity of brass is about 110 W/mK compared to steel at 52 W/mK. Layer adhesion would even be way better if you used a copper nozzle because it's more conductive at 385 W/mK. I think you should make a video comparing few nozzle materials and see the results 👍🏻

  • @worldoflard
    @worldoflard 3 года назад

    Thanks for that review Stefan - I've been wondering when you would get around to it!
    I've made some fairly large prints using Prusament PC Blend, and found that even if I use a good covering of the glue stick, the part's tendency to warp is strong enough to actually curl the magnetic sheet up away from the build plate. I solved this problem by using bulldog clips - placing one at the very rear centre of the plate, and one each side at the very front - all places where it won't foul the Z-axis motors. I wait until the Z-axis has reached about 5mm before pausing the print and adding these clips (also removing the clip handles). This has given me some success with a part which is a triangular axle mount for a garden cart, about 190mm per side.
    It's amazing how strong this material is, and I have the carbon fibre variant on backorder as well!

  • @ronricardo1332
    @ronricardo1332 Год назад

    Hi Stefan,
    Thanks a lot for the informative video.
    I would like to suggest making a competitive video of creep resistance of different materials, as this is a very fundamental property for some applications.
    Keep up the good work, and thank you again.

  • @robbryan3044
    @robbryan3044 3 года назад +2

    Another great informative video. However, in watching it...particularly having switched between the brass & steel nozzles...an idea popped into my head.
    I'm certain that the great majority of those watching your comparison videos greatly enjoys the material comparisons...but, I have a strong feeling that there are others who, like me, would really like to see at least one video comparing nozzles, especially in regards to the most popular/common filaments. A perfect example would be the Olson Ruby nozzles.
    People are familiar with the standard brass & steel nozzles...but, they're probably less familiar (many not even knowing anything about) the various Olson Ruby nozzles, such as the one made with brass, and the one made using a copper alloy. While these 'specialty' nozzles were originally created for use with more abrasive filaments (such as those containing carbon fiber), I don't see why they couldn't be used with the more common (PLA, PETG, etc) filaments.
    So...how about it? How about doing some nozzle comparison videos, comparing at least one (probably the brass) version of the Olson Ruby nozzles against the 'standard' brass & steel nozzles?

  • @pixxure1
    @pixxure1 2 года назад +3

    The review of the CF version of this never made it online?

  • @coreyfro
    @coreyfro 2 года назад +3

    Didn't you have a Prusament Carbon Fiber video? Are you making one? I have some and I want to know if you have any sights I missed. It's working great but I like your insightfulness

  • @michaelhinojosa9665
    @michaelhinojosa9665 3 года назад +2

    looking forward to the carbon fiber version review. the finish looks beautiful

  • @crystaldragon141
    @crystaldragon141 3 года назад +2

    I'd love to see a series testing different nozzle materials. I'd also like to see a comparison of volcano style vs normal length nozzles with the same heater and orifice specs.

    • @alexlux147
      @alexlux147 3 года назад +1

      i'm curious about nickel plated copper nozzle, it should have more heat capacity and better heat transfer

  • @giovi727
    @giovi727 3 года назад +3

    When is the review for the carbon fiber pc blend coming ;) ?

  • @matkilla454
    @matkilla454 3 года назад +1

    You should get a tungsten carbide nozzle, it has a similar thermal conductivity to brass but is harder and more abrasion resistant than any steel.

  • @seanwieland9763
    @seanwieland9763 3 года назад

    This is great! Would also like to see a review of PC-PBT. So wonderful to see the 3D printing community finally start to take polycarbonate blends seriously - especially for functional parts.

  • @robertfousch2703
    @robertfousch2703 3 года назад

    Just found this channel a few days ago...its awesome. I would love to see a discussion on 3D printing molds for vacuum forming, the pro/cons of various materials and how well they hold up after multiple pulls, deformation, materials with good porosity, thermal impacts from the heated plastic sheets of HIPS, PETG, and ABS.

  • @mrclown7469
    @mrclown7469 3 года назад +9

    If the steel nozzle is hurting layer adhesion (presumably) due to lower thermal conductivity compared to brass, I wonder if a nickel plated copper nozzle would do the opposite 🤔

    • @Sembazuru
      @Sembazuru 3 года назад

      Intriguing hypothesis. I haven't looked up the thermal resistance values to see how close (or far apart) they are.

    • @alexanderdaum8053
      @alexanderdaum8053 3 года назад

      @@Sembazuru Copper is the most thermally conductive material with a thermal conductivity of about 400W/mK. Brass has about 120, but depending on the specific alloy it could be different. For steel it is hard to say, since it really depends on the alloy, but should be more in the range 30-60

  • @garagecedric
    @garagecedric 3 года назад +1

    I really like it for automotive use, better temp capabilites than abs/asa, strong, easy to print (in enclosure), not hygroscopic like nylon (big plus), cheap compared to similar spec materials etc, preordered the pccf version to get additional temp properties, looks promising.

  • @le_potate3861
    @le_potate3861 3 года назад

    Been waiting for this for a long time

  • @HunterGeophysicsAustralia
    @HunterGeophysicsAustralia 2 года назад +2

    Hi Stefan, did you end up reviewing the Prusament PCCF? I can't seem to find anything on your channel about it... thanks.

  • @percurious
    @percurious 3 года назад +2

    Still no "CNC Kitchen™"? ;-)
    Congrats on the trademark and on your contribution to the community being acknowledged by Angus in his latest video!

    • @percurious
      @percurious 3 года назад

      P.S. i am all for deeper investigations into the nozzle material impact!

  • @santiagoblandon3022
    @santiagoblandon3022 3 года назад +1

    I'm super eager to watch the carbon fiber PC test!! :D :D :D Thanks! keep it up!

  • @brisance
    @brisance 3 года назад +3

    I've got a roll of this and it likes to warp, even in an enclosure.

  • @lukesmith9059
    @lukesmith9059 3 года назад +4

    Love these videos! On the topic of layer adhesion, have you tried testing samples printed in a heated chamber? Especially with these higher temperature materials, I would expect the layer adhesion to improve substantially.

  • @Bioluminous-CAS
    @Bioluminous-CAS 2 года назад +3

    Do you know when you will do this same test with Prusament CF PC Blend?

  • @Marci124
    @Marci124 3 года назад +1

    I never realized how high PLA rates across the board in total. It's not very often that the "most basic" option is also among the best in most respects.

  • @shenqiangshou
    @shenqiangshou 3 года назад +3

    I definitely encountered the same difference when going from brass to hardened steel nozzles. In my own testing, I had to up the temperature 20C in order to get similar results. For example, normally I print PLA at 205C, but switching to HS nozzle, I'd up it to around 225C. When I first encountered this I was very surprised. I ended up making up two identical hotends that I could quickly swap between on my MK3S in order to do back to back tests, same gcode, just different nozzle. And yeah, that's when I isolated it down to the HS nozzle being the cause of the poor layer adhesion.

    • @internettoughguy
      @internettoughguy 3 года назад

      Brass and hardened steel conduct heat differently. That's why.

  • @AleksandrEfimov
    @AleksandrEfimov 3 года назад

    I read somewhere that steel nozzles may transfer heat a bit worse than brass, so it's useful to increase print temperature by 3-4 degrees to make them work properly

  • @squidcaps4308
    @squidcaps4308 3 года назад +1

    110% agree with engineering materials to be offered in 500g spools. It would make it affordable as the most common way to use them, i think, is to print PLA part first, iterate the design using cheap materials and then print it once with the proper one.

  • @physicsquack7660
    @physicsquack7660 3 года назад

    The thermal conductutivity of the nozzles is the reason for the different layer adhesions. The steel nozzle has a much lower thermal conductivity preventing the same exit temp of the filament leading to lesser layer adhesion, and it causes the material to flow less easily making the brass nozzle produce more "dense" parts from amount of filament extruded.

  • @Sembazuru
    @Sembazuru 3 года назад +2

    Prusa claims that their PC Blend can be annealed for better temperature resistance. It would be interesting to see how the other physical properties are affected by annealing and how annealed PC Blend compares to annealed PLA in the thermal test.

    • @liamthepyro
      @liamthepyro 3 года назад

      I think he made a video about annealing PLA in an oven a while back

  • @cander58
    @cander58 3 года назад

    I recently installed a hardened nozzle with a silicone sock. Reduced strength from a lack of "ironing" and direct heat transfer was a concern and it appears my concern was correct. Hopefully we can continue innovating to improve performance from more durable nozzles.

  • @GoBayside
    @GoBayside 3 года назад +29

    Looking forward to the carbon version - unless it devours ends.

    • @SagesFury
      @SagesFury 3 года назад +5

      Get a hardened steel end. They dont cost much and work fine.

    • @brandonsmoot4056
      @brandonsmoot4056 3 года назад +5

      Most polymers don't bond to carbon fiber unless you get nano silica. It might make it weaker. Plus most carbon fiber filament is sketchy short fibers not medium to long continuous strands which would be stronger.

    • @seanwieland9763
      @seanwieland9763 3 года назад

      @@brandonsmoot4056 yeah, I’m not convinced the benefits of CF outweigh the cost or the wear and tear. Other polymer blends like PC-PBT look more promising, but I haven’t done a formal test like this.

    • @ivandrago4247
      @ivandrago4247 3 года назад +1

      Carbon is complete nonsense. We need glass filling.

  • @AzaB2C
    @AzaB2C 3 года назад

    Nice! Liked before watching, always a pleasure watching your edutainment content. Cheers!

  • @ectaven8864
    @ectaven8864 2 года назад +3

    Can you make a video about the prusament PC blend Carbon

  • @fwiffo
    @fwiffo 3 года назад +3

    Are you interested in testing the affect of color on print quality and strength? I've always been skeptical, but everyone says that white ABS or ASA is bad because it requires a lot of pigment.
    I also wonder how much it varies between materials; I have a roll of white PETG which prints better than clear, but maybe PETG benefits because it becomes less excessively sticky.

  • @Clement-0635
    @Clement-0635 2 года назад +2

    Hi Stefan, in this video you tease a review of the prusament PC blend carbon fiber, is it still planned?

  • @dertarr8208
    @dertarr8208 3 года назад

    Hey, Stephan! You mentioned that there should be a video about CF-PC that you were preparing in between!

  • @heron5045
    @heron5045 3 года назад

    thanks for the great material test

  • @DerBen0487
    @DerBen0487 3 года назад

    Ahoi Stefan,
    What a surprise. Just a couple of days ago I tried to print PLA(!) with my E3D Nozzle X (steel nozzle) at 0.3mm layer height, 0.65mm width with a 0.6mm nozzle on a Voron 2.4 with a Mosquito Magnum. Layer adhesion was awful, I could break the layers with my bare fingers, and increasing the temp to 220°C did not help. After many hours of trying different settings (even measured heatbreak temps and tried different hotend fan settings) I finally switched to a standard E3D brass nozzle and voilá, layer adhesion was superb again. Layers were printed at about 80-110 mm/s which was way below the max rated flow rate of 30-35 mm^3 a Mosquito Magnum is capable of. With the given settings 150+ mm/s should be possible.
    Tbh I was even more surprised that this isn't a known "topic" on the internet, on Facebook or on the Discord channels I'm in because steel nozzles aren't new on the market.
    I think that steel nozzles have, due their lower heat conductivity, a limitation of maximum flowrate they can be used for otherweise layer adhesion will greatly suffer. At about 25 mm^3 the adhestion was so bad that the infill began to not connect to the outer walls! Again, with 0.6mm E3D V6 brass nozzle this wasn't a issue anymore.
    For now, if I have to switch to a steel nozzle, I'll print really slow so layer adhesion won't be an issue.
    Maybe, for your next test you might also include Slice Engineering's "Bridgemaster" nozzles when you compare brass wih steel nozzles regarding layer adhesion (maybe they'll send you one)? It seems those are made out of copper and are maybe better suited for the job to survive carbon blends and also being able to maintain a high layer ahdesion due their higher temperature conductivity compared to steel . I'm about to try those soon but my scientific "can break layers with bare fingers" test isn't really meaningful :-D
    LG
    Ben

  • @shitposter4688
    @shitposter4688 3 года назад

    The nozzle difference probably stems from the different thermal conduction. The gap could be closed via longer nozzles, as found in the volcanoe hotend, though, I think.
    Nice video!

  • @TrueThanny
    @TrueThanny 3 года назад +1

    When you test nozzle materials, putting plated brass in the mix would be helpful. Not only for thermals, but also wear resistance compared to hardened steel.

    • @Brocknoviatch
      @Brocknoviatch 3 года назад

      I just installed a plated copper nozzle from trianglelab. Which is supposed to be able to print abrasive materials. I wonder how that would go with prusament pc blend?

    • @TrueThanny
      @TrueThanny 3 года назад

      @@Brocknoviatch The PC blend isn't abrasive. The idea is that it's a pain to switch nozzles, so you want a nozzle that has the thermal characteristics of brass, but the toughness of hardened steel, without having to buy a ruby which might just decide to crack.
      But I haven't seen any good comparisons showing how well plated brass works compared to solid hardened steel with abrasives (e.g. anything with carbon fiber in it).

  • @Dave-gf3kd
    @Dave-gf3kd 3 года назад

    Excellent as always!

  • @eideticex
    @eideticex 3 года назад

    I have a feeling the thermal sensor near the hot end needs to be recalibrated to adjust for the difference in conductivity between the brass and steel nozzle. Mine was off a bit after upgrading my nozzle. Tested by placing a piece of painters tape on the nozzle cone then measuring it after it comes to temp with an thermometer gun. I don't remember how far mine was off but it really made a huge difference with cf-pla to adjust the multiplier on it.

  • @gusmartin6053
    @gusmartin6053 3 года назад +1

    You should test PVP Polymer (Polyvinylpyrrolidone) as a bed adhesion material. I have been using this for quite a while and it works great on ABS, PLA, and PETG. I haven’t tested other materials. Most impressive is ABS. It will not separate from the bed until the bed has cooled close to room temp. I use standard bed temperatures that you would use with a PEI print surface. Apply the PVP to a PEI bed or better yet use Garolite as the print surface. I dissolve 0.2% PVP in denatured alcohol by weight, then simply wet the bed with this solution and let it dry. PVP is available in powder form as cosmetics materials. You can even get it from Amazon.

    • @MG-ct5ju
      @MG-ct5ju 2 года назад +1

      generic glue stick are actually PVP/PVA

  • @JorgenLarsson
    @JorgenLarsson 3 года назад

    I also wold love to see a comparison between different types of nozzles in the same dimension. Hardened, brass, brass with coatings and the ruby nozzles.

  • @Mannotaur
    @Mannotaur 3 года назад

    My theory about the layer adhesion differences between steel and brass is that the filament acts the same way pasta does through dies made of the same material. The steel die leaves a shiny clean surface on the extruded plastic while the brass leaves a ragged more irregular surface for the proceeding layers to better adhere to.

  • @paulherman5198
    @paulherman5198 3 года назад

    I love the PC Blend. I have a roll of Prusa Orange PC. I print it on my Mini. My bed is already toast, but I still use gluestick

  • @physicsquack7660
    @physicsquack7660 3 года назад

    The Prusament PC Blend parameter settings works wonderfully for Inland PC also.

  • @powersv2
    @powersv2 3 года назад

    Now I have to go back and watch the PC+ABS blend filament you made to see how this stacks up.

  • @Peter_Schluss-Mit-Lustig
    @Peter_Schluss-Mit-Lustig 3 года назад

    One filament i'd suggest for an upcoming test is Fil-A-Gehr PPA (polyphtalamide) offering high strength and chemical-resistance at around the price of PC

  • @tafjortoft
    @tafjortoft 3 года назад +1

    You should test it without cooling fan. I tested polymax PC with and without a some cooling fan. Like most other filament, cooling fan kill the layer adhesion on PC filament.

  • @VincentGroenewold
    @VincentGroenewold 3 года назад

    Liked before watching as I'm super interested using this for house projects, but was waiting for the CNC torture tests. :) I always print with a steel nozzle actually, needs more tuning but once done seems fine for me.

  • @alexanderthomas2660
    @alexanderthomas2660 3 года назад +1

    I'd really appreciate an in-depth test between brass and steel nozzles. I've always had the feeling that I need to print hotter with my hardened steel nozzle to maintain a similar layer adhesion as with brass, but it's all guesswork and it would be nice to see this quantified!

  • @cruduskellies
    @cruduskellies 3 года назад

    I saw a Sidewinder X1. That makes me happy.

  • @doctorbolognamd7103
    @doctorbolognamd7103 3 года назад

    It's most likely due to the brass expanding more under high heat and allowing more filament to pass through. Depending on what alloy is used, steel expands at a pretty predictable rate when it's heated. It's something like 1/1,000 of an inch per 100° c, per cubic inch of steel.. or something very similar to that.
    As heating up stuck nuts to loosen them, or tightening a nut that has been heated to get a connection that won't rattle loose over time.

  • @Hallslys
    @Hallslys 3 года назад

    Your experience with a hardened nozzle is very similar to my own. I thought i could have one nozzle on my printer and print everything with it, but i had horrible underextrusion with a hardened nozzle and PLA. The PLA also came out way more matte than with my brass nozzle. Two things help, either slowing down speeds or increasing temperatures. But they don't fix the problem.
    Now i switch between nozzles when i need to print fiberfilled materials or regular materials. I also always increase my temperatures and reduce my speeds when printing with the hardened nozzle.

  • @rpavlik1
    @rpavlik1 3 года назад +1

    Would love to see more research into the nozzle differences.

  • @shelbyseelbach9568
    @shelbyseelbach9568 Год назад

    I notice when testing the hook pieces that the point of contact in the hook itself is very different between pieces. This will cause inaccuracies as the arm of the lever the force is being applied to changes each time. I would suggest alteringg the profile of the hook itself to have a "V" profile instead of the round profile. This will make sure the force is always applied at the same point of the hook, yielding actual consistent results.

  • @MeMyselfAndI33
    @MeMyselfAndI33 3 года назад

    Stefan... Respekt !!
    Sehr lehrreiche und professionelle Videos !!
    Auch die Tests, die du machst sind gut und nützlich.
    Neben dehn-, biege-, kerbschlag- und temperaturfestigkeiten vermisse ich die Abriebfestigkeiten im Vergleich unter den compounds.
    Ganz speziell wurde ich dir gerne folgende Fragen stellen:
    - Welches Filament würdest Du für z.B. Zahnradflanken verwenden, die einer hohen Reibung ausgesetzt wären?
    - was muss ich beim Kauf eines Druckers beachten und dieses Filament benutzen zu können
    - welche modelle an 3d Drucker kannst du empfehlen

  • @42Luk
    @42Luk 3 года назад

    I use PC for about 60% of my prints. It has everything you expect from an engineering material and with this type of filament it is easy to print too. I used PC Blend but the Makrolon Filament from W2 is even better. PA HT from Luvocom is a strong competitor. Try PEKK Filament! It is surprisingly "easy" to print with. Just a little bit expensive ;)

  • @cedriceveleigh
    @cedriceveleigh 3 года назад +2

    I'm looking forward to the review of PC Blend Carbon Fiber.

  • @TheAruruu
    @TheAruruu 3 года назад

    For testing the nozzles, it would be interesting to see not only how the material of the nozzle affects the prints, but also how much each type is affected by other factors including fan speeds, silicone socks, bed temperature, and enclosures and heated enclosures. I know this would result in many, many tests, but it could result in finding a combination that creates significantly stronger prints.

  • @Todestelzer
    @Todestelzer Год назад

    It’s now a favorite of mine. Use it in a dental tool cleaning machine.
    PC-CF (also from Prusa) got soft and my PA was to expensive (75€, 500g).
    My last 2 spools came without glue sticks 😢

  • @MarkoFQ
    @MarkoFQ 3 года назад

    I would like to see comparison with enclosed ( if possible heated chamber ) That would be interesting to see. Since everything is done on open air, it would be great find to see difference in strenght depending on ambient ( enclosure ) temp. And with engineering materials I think that is a must.

  • @tomhsia4354
    @tomhsia4354 2 года назад

    For a stiff filament that is easily printable, you can try testing FormFutura CarbonFil. My spool was quite a bit stiffer than ColourFabb XT-CF20.
    Also, you should try out tungsten carbide nozzles. They claim to be tougher than hardened steel nozzle with the thermal properties of brass.

  • @limitlessbuilds
    @limitlessbuilds 3 года назад +2

    Any idea when the carbon version tests will come out?

  • @davide.ercolano
    @davide.ercolano 3 года назад

    Hi Stefan! The differences between the brass and the steel nuzzle, maybe could be addressed to the different coefficient of dilatation: the differences in the expansion of the melting chamber could produce a different flow rate (?) - And/Or the differences in the energy dissipation? - And/Or due to the different friction?

  • @extectic
    @extectic 3 года назад

    Brass is more efficient when it comes to heat transfer, and just managing to heat the material better before laying it down would explain a lot about layer adhesion. Maybe the hardened steel nozzle needs a few more degrees of heat added to perform better. But just speculating of course.