The full list of commanders they talked about is: 1- Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis 6:14 2- Xantcha, sleeper agent 9:05 3- Grothama, all devouring 12:03 4- braids conjurer adept 14:58 5- Thantis, the Warweaver 18:16 6- Queen Marchesa 21:20 7- Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist 25:43 8- Ruhan or the Fomori 27:40 9- Phelddagrif 29:28 10- Mayael the Anima 32:49
@@denomi39 No he is wrong, one player or not Mindslaver locking someone is absolutely oppressive. He can't say he dosen't do thing likes that "ever" when he has. If he wants to say he dosen't do it often then sure we can talk. But don't smugly sit there acting like mind slaver locking someone isn't an oppressive unfun move. Lock implys it can done without end, things that are infinite are oppressive. If you sit down at a table and start mind slaver locking someone out of the game, the rest of the table will groan cause they know it's coming for them too.
Kynaios and Tiro is my first (and so far only) edh deck. I absolutely love it, and so does everyone else at the table when it shows up =) Also, one quick thing: they are not two "1/4"s. Actually, they are two" 1/1" human soldier + the 0/6 wall of the fortress/palace thing where they are standing. That's what you call on point flavor 👌
You asked, "do you consider other people's enjoyment when deckbuilding". It is the absolute number one thing I consider for *any* deck that I play, I have literally pulled apart decks that I thought were really cool, but ended up being too annoying to play against because of some kind of thing that I didn't stop to consider. I built Siona, Captain of the Pyleas recently and it was really fun, very fair, but keeping track of all my auras ended up annoying people far more than I expected,. So I took it apart and made a dragon tribal with Lathliiss, Dragon Queen and included all kinds of cool references to pop culture like with Throne of the High City (aka the Iron Throne of Westeros), and as many cool promo dragon cards as I could find. I also relentlessly quote Smaug.
I'm glad to hear that there's someone else who wants everyone to have a good time. To me, it's a casual game with friends. If I'm the only one having fun, it's not. So, I have intentionally not built decks that I knew would be overwhelming. I also intentionally didn't put Ulamog in a deck. I like to win sure, but it's not why I play.
For that Mayael deck concept, I know someone who did the same thing with Doran, The Siege Tower as his commander. He never know what kind of creatures he will have each time he plays. Sometime infect creature, sometime lifegain creature, sometime just big toughness creatures etc. It's very fun for all players around the table!
I've built probably 5 versions of Marchesa, the best and most fun part has been having surprise on my side. No one knows how I'm building it next (graveyard?? Politics?? Group slug??) and the Sunforger package is always filled with secrets ("thats why its so big, its filled with secrets") 😂
My favourite deck is actually just Knight Tribal with Marchesa as the Commander. It started out as a joke 'Queen Marchesa and her Noble Knights' but actually ended up being an incredibly fun deck with a lot of interaction.
We need a double feature Game Knights. One where each player is playing with the worst commanders to play against and one where they are playing with the best
OMG that is such a good idea for Mayael! I had my Mayael deck for a long time and do keep changing creatures out, but this will make it so much more fun! And saves me worrying about which creatures to keep in. I love it. Thanks!
Thank you guys for working hard to put this kind of content in a time when most of the world is in quarantine. It's nice to know that we can enjoy Commander even if we can't physically play the game.
Same, all the goad and force combat cards. Akroan horse and other cards that make everyone tokens and have everyone swinging around with 5+ tokens a round. Or just suit thantis up with assault suit
Trove of Temptation is my favorite addition to my Thantis deck. I get a treasure each turn, but more importantly, it FORCES opponents to attack me. So pretty much, each rotation of the table, I get to kill three creatures, and Thantis gets at least 3 counters on him.
I'm so proud because one of my friends willingly traded his Narset to me and said: "Yea I know you're not gonna break it" and now I have a Narset flavor deck that everyone seems to love playing against. I've never seen people be hyped to see someone cast/swing with Narset before :D I'm so happy
"Thantis forces things to happen"... sounds pretty much like the grand reason why my playgroup plays with Monarch always. First blood gets you the crown. We love it! It amazes me you guys don't use it! We also have another rule for Monarch games, whenever the crown hasn't fallen from a specific player's head at the end of the 3rd consecutive turn of the table, it falls again on the table. This caveat prevents anyone from hoarding the crown and drawing cards like crazy. I also think of my friends when deckbuilding, it takes some years of playing sometimes to realise how important that is. Once you start doing it though, it's hard to go back to competitive thinking. Thanks for the episode fellas, you rock! Kudos from cheesie, confined France!
I'm so glad you mentioned Thantis. People have groaned when I have revealed it, but have been won over with some really fun games that don't run overly long. Iteration is forced, and people often time get real creative on how to deal with each other when Thantis is out.
Forcing action is why, in my playgroup, we always play with the monarch. My friends are so conservative with their cards, having the monarch open on the playgroup for the first one doing dmg to a player just makes the early game more interactive. I find that I have more fun when we are all able to react/interac in a game. As I provide the decks for all our playgroup, I tend to leave some weakness intentionally to leave some interaction open... And budget restrict my options, so there's that.
I feel like the biggest misconception people have is how fun group hug decks are. As its often really just a control deck or it plays mana flare and then the next player just wins.
Mine is really geared towards everyone else drawing out on same turn. get as many everyone draws as i can on field. once everyone is around 20-30 cards in deck ill shuffle my graveyard in library and cast my Everyone Draws X once or twice. i avoid control and went more madness/escape creatures and token spam for survivability. I feel its no fun if i give everyone 5to8 cards a turn and then dont let any of it happen. mainly i made mine like so for short games and no one can complain about mana when my deck is ingame.
I really dislike playing against Group Hug. Decks arent build to have that kind of absurd acceleration, and it basically says that whoever has the greediest list will end up winning the game.
Thats just the misconception of group hug. Youre not supposed to build it with all the cards that say: ALL PLAYERS BENEFIT FROM THIS. Youre supposed to put more targeted friendly stuff in the deck so you can play around with politics. I have experienced the problem you mentioned a lot of times in the past, and also realised that it was not a fun way to play it. I have a Kenrith (which has exactly the type of effects i'm talking about) built the proper way, and ive been getting some great responses!
Ben Williams I will kill somebody as fast as possible if they’re playing group hug. It’s just another form of control, but they use emotions instead of spells. It’s annoying and frustrating to deal with. I don’t care if I lose for it, I will take them with me. This is the only type of deck I will play I like this against.
I think the key is to not play it as "group" hugs, but more "targeted" hugs. As in "You and only you can have this benefit, if you attack that player for a few turns, or at least don't attack me". I have a Phelldagrif deck that used to be group hug, and I found it to be much more fun (and control-focused) to only give hand outs to people who have something to offer me. And it wins, a surprising amount of the time.
Seeing my girl Grothama finally getting the recognition she deserves makes me so happy. Her deck is by far my favorite deck and it always seems that my opponents have fun playing against it. Maybe it's because turns where I draw 54 cards or ones where I have two Grothamas on board together with Vigor and my Llanowar Elves just turned into a 41/41 creature.
Too me decks like these embody the original spirit of commander. They are geared towards a multiplayer format, they allow you to play/do big flashy stuff in various ways, and they still allow you to regularly win games. There’s no oppressive stacks or turn 3 combos. Just raw power coupled with fun social interaction. Good stuff
Jimmy says that K&T decks put people in "quarantine." Was this video recorded before things got all crazy? If so, Jimmy is quite the prophetic flamespeaker.
I do generally think about my opponents when I build my decks, however sometimes I underestimate what my deck does. I made a golos lotus field- thespian stage land value deck with a lot of untap permanents shenanigans and legendary/ planeswalkers main theme. I thought it wouldn't be bad to play against, since it wouldn't be oppressive not many tutors except for conflux which is one of the main wincons, with not much interaction. However, there was one thing I didn't think about. The deck takes long turns. The untap shenanigans and tens of planeswalkers take a lot of time, with all these triggers etc. It's one of my favorite decks and I played it a lot. But I'm thinking of getting rid of it because I feel like it's not fit for my playgroup. They said it's fine but if I look at them and their reaction I feel like it's not.
Play it a bit less yes, and maybe take some walkers out? I hate watching my opponent activate 4+ walkers and take 10min+ turns, but getting value out of untap shenanigans? I’m always down!
I made a 'Sakashima the Imposter' deck for fun, all the copy/duplicate effects i could find(and there's a ton!). I thought my group would like playing against this, because i'm essentially sending their own creatures back at them. what ended up happening was that everyone at the table would forget what is a copy of what, which effects were happening targeting what.. it became very confusing. i started needing to tear off little pieces of paper and write the name of whateverI'm copying on the card, and then people walking past the table would send them flying. just no fun. ever since then I always think about how my deck will be perceived while making it.
I have a muldrotha smokestack/birthing pod deck and it's not a terribly oppressive deck by any means, in fact I would say it is one of the "weaker" decks in my LGS but when it works and goes off people say it's very unfun to play against because it's made to be a toolbox answer style deck with BP and Vannifar so I consistently have answers and when the smokestack plan comes together I can sometimes put 12 counters on it and it doesn't slow me down at all. I see where the other players say "hey this isnt very fun to play against" but one of those players uses Turns Narset and another plays Grand Arbiter fort. I wouldn't take apart a deck you enjoy just because other people dont like it, I would just suggest having a second more linear and focused deck
Eric Landis and I must be kindred spirits, I have a Maelstrom Wanderer deck that has a main deck of 50 cards including lands and ramp, then I have a 250 card "sideboard" that I randomly select 50 cards to fill in the rest of the deck slots each time I play. It's a ton of fun and it adds to the excitement of the game on top of a very dynamic commander.
I recently put together a Mayael list, and she's awesome with a "lands matter" subtheme. Pulling as many lands out of my library really helps Mayael's ability, and all the landfall triggers and other stuff happening creates a ton of extra value. =)
I'm tempted put Ruric Thar on my fav play against list (Game Knights brought it to mind). Pros: game dynamics change so fast, game ends aggressively, and punishes control decks. Cons: turn order matters. When you play against decks like Ruric Thar, sitting to the right of them is preferred (just like sitting to the left of Braids is preferred). There are a slough of commanders that are like this (seat order matters); just think of the last time you played with Nekusar at the table.
Mayael was my first commander when I first heard about EDH in 2009. After this video it’s now a 61 card deck with a 104 cards 5 or greater creature to put in randomly.
My favorite is Omnath Locus of the Roil. If you want to have a good time, go risen reef into Omnath, into tempt with vengence with X being alot of Mana.
I could see doing a Mystery Deck with Atla Palani Mystery Eggs. you build the "shell" pun in tended and have a giant pile of any creature you want, you dont even have to limit yourself to 5+ power. comander replay did something similar where he made an egg deck with "big fatties you forgot exist"
My play group does this. Mostly stax, land destruction, and control. Win combos or all out lock outs. Its a very miserable game to sit on. But fun at the sametime when you see a winter orb and 5 counters on the stack on turn 3...
I'm sure you all are working extra hard, especially with 2020 being the year of commander; but I was wondering if the CommandZone will be interacting with the new Mystery Booster product in any way?
I had a Mayael deck back in the Alara days. Naya big stuff has been taken over by Zacama since they came out, though... dinosaurs are what pulled me back in after a pretty long hiatus.
I do always end up thinking about my opponents when I’m deck building. It keeps me from doing anything too oppressive or that combos out too quickly. I have a couple of fast, combo decks, but most of the time I’m purposefully aiming my decks at being more towards the 6-7 range. I don’t show up to a game of magic to play solitaire or watch someone else play solitaire. I like winning, but I value my decks “doing their thing” over winning most of the time. If my deck does what it’s designed to do, I’m generally happy. And if I’m losing too much in a single day, well that’s what those combo decks are for
I play K&T "card draw tribal." My favorite finisher is Forced Fruition and Runeflare Trap because it escalates the game, but my friends know they just might die if they get greedy.
My friends and I play Commander since 2015 now, and because I love deck brewing (in fact, it's more than half of the fun for me), all my lists are built from scratch. Looking back, I noticed that I went through different "evolutionary stages" as a deckbuilder. My first homebrewed EDH deck was Doran treefolk tribal. Very flavorful, but also very janky. It kept losing horribly to the Daretti and Teferi precons my friends were playing at that time. Because of that, the next "phase" was to build focused decks that wanted to win, even if that meant to cut my opponents off from their resources. I had a Liliana, Heretical Healer discard deck and Nekusar stax, with the result that a) I was the archenemy most of the time and b) I saw a lot of hanging shoulders and bored faces when looking around the table. Now, I love to build flavorful but strong casual decks that include group hug-ish cards like Heartwood Storyteller or Oath of Lieges, and do fun and/or crazy stuff that keeps everyone on their toes, but also engaged and excited. And that's what Commander should be all about.
The thing is that if my oponents arnt having fun im not really having fun. I love the reaction of my oponents when i do something cool. I just want a fun game where theres a lot of laughter and memories
Starting the game with the Monarch is really awesome! In our playgroup we play a 60 singletons cards format using planeswalker at "Commander" and we start with the Monarch in play.
Love playing my Thantis deck, best moment I've had so far was when someone cast an Ulamog and my response on my turn was Disrupt Decorum. Luckily the folks at the table took it a little better than the card art XD
Hey guys awesome episode! Just wanted to say this to Josh if he decides to build a Grothama deck. So I built my Grothama deck when the battlebond set came out and the two best kind of explosive I have in my deck is: Mossbridge Troll and Storm Seeker. Have fun brewing :)
I always am conscious of if my opponents will have fun when I deck build. Like I cut Lavinia of the Tenth and knight-captain of eos from my Aminatou deck because I was like it’s just gonna make everybody else miserable and hate me.
I build a Xantcha (Curses) deck recently and I can sure say the games got so, so much fun! Mind you that our playgroup has both Urza and Mizzix. Xantcha just plainly fucked up the meta, forced everyone out of their shells and disrupted strategies in a genuinely fun way. My impression was that Xantcha is the exact opposite of stax. It (almost) forces people to do stuff and to interact with the board instead of searching for their wincons. So I can definitely recommend building Xantcha. It’s fun for everyone, creates absurd situations and spices up the game without getting the people salty. Xantcha is the Chili in your Pho and you want it! ^^
I've built Admiral Beckett Brass with tons of exchange and trade effects, stuff like conjured currencies, eyes everywhere, captivating glance and stuff, alongside unsummons and pirates and called it the "East Empire Trading Co", a referrence to The Elder Scrolls' sailing merchants guild that are totally not pirates. It's the most flavorful deck I've ever built and I'm just trying to entice the players at the table with deals they may or may not regret.
I made a Sliver Queen deck that ran every alternative win conditions I had access to (except Battle of Wits, for obvious reasons) and the rule was I had to focus on the win condition I drew first. I had no ideal before hand if I was worried about getting one of each land type or a loaded graveyard or 50 life or something else.
My Favourite is Probably Nekusar. Everyone at the table seems more likely to keep a greedy hand... and they definitely can mostly. Card draw for everyone, howling mine, party Jace or tons of wheel effects let's everyone enjoy there Deck.
I mean, my playgroup always kills me first with Nekusar. I usually play him when we need a faster game because he gives everyone a clock that keeps getting faster and speeds up with wheels
I have roughly 15 decks across the color wheel built that are meant to be played with each other, so in general I don’t play with win conditions that not all colors have answers to. This generally shoots enchantress or graveyard out, and it’s been fun trying to tune the pod to itself.
Great memory of a game I lost terribly was ending up on the plane that mills each turn playing against a graveyard deck. He powered up very fast, and no one could roll to get us off the plane.
My Kynaios and Tiro is more focused on ramp. Giving people draw engines and land. The most notable combo in the deck is Folio of Fancies + Smothering Tithe. For (X)(X)(T): I can make each player draw X cards. Then for each card they draw, they pay (2) or else I get a Treasure- which normally I use to just refuel the Folio, so people are okay not paying the 2 because they just get extra draw. Nothing wrong with having everyone draw 80 cards. :) The deck also has bonus ramping with Mana Flare, Rites of Flourishing, Dictate of Kruphix, Howling Mine, Veteran Explorer, and Avatar of Growth. The deck also utilizes other commanders that accelerate the field immensely. Chulane and Karametra.
You peaked my interest, do tell some of what you're doing with that!? I love RG and the Weatherlight crew( I want to make a deck for each person eventually) so please share!
@@d.k.sovereign8642 It's just mana doublers, group ramp, damage doublers, howling mine effects and earthquake effects, with some voltron for tahngarth to survive
Mayael was my first deck, and still my favorite to play today. So many of my other decks get locked into the same groove. Mayael is a fresh game every time.
I love you josh and jimmy giving me hope dearing this pendemic I hope I can make it to gp Vegas’s you guys are my favorite RUclipsrs and you guys have you made me a commander player
I play Possibility Storm in a 5C legendary deck. I understand a lot of people hate that card but it makes it completely random for me too. It made it somewhat like a chaotic Braids/Group Hug game. And it instantly made the games more fun for everybody. I could tell the other players were enjoying what was going on. They even had ways to remove Possibility Storm but decided not to use it. Maybe it's just my playgroups but it was a really fun experience.
Something Josh and Jimmy don't really acknowledge enough on their show is that they're not Magic experts. They tell everybody what to do and how to play and whats ok and not ok, and they even spike card prices if they talk about their favorite cards, but they never say, "Hey guys just a reminder, this is all highly subjective and we don't claim to know everything about Magic." I'm only saying this because their opinions really sway people, because people think they're the high authority on all things commander. They're not. And shocker - sometimes they're wrong!
Holy shit, thanks dude. Up until this point I had thought both of them basically created magic because I can not think for myself at all. You saved us bro.
I've built so many of these decks lol. My Grothama deck was just tribal wurms (took it apart because it was a bad deck with good pieces). I had a pheldagriff deck that just aimed to make infinite mana and make everyone draw their decks (people would get kinda salty because it sure looked like a group hug deck). I still have my kynaios and tiro deck together and it's my favorite deck. Its group hug with a splash of chaos. I have 2 win cons. Folio of Fancies because I love that card and Aetherflux Reservoir but I don't have any other life gain in the deck (aside from parley Selvala).
my personally fun commander is Darien, King of Kjeldor. 6 cost mono-white with "when you are delt damage you may make a number of 1/1 soldier tokens equal to that damage." My deck is absolutely stuffed with cards that deal damage to myself and also heal for 1 when a creature enters the battlefield under my control, a very fun way to achieve pseudo-invincability. The goal is the be the punchingbag of the entire table and to promote interesting cooperation and use of alternative win conditions.
I like to think about how everyone play experience is, One of my favorite types of decks are sort of group hate. Like play a land take dmg, draw a card take damage basically adding a life cost to everything you do, but I dont like game locks or mana taxing effects. I like keeping the game moving while letting everyone else play magic.
I have a Klothys deck that does that. People completely underestimate how much damage they take over the course of the game until it suddenly gets way out of hand. People are durdling, but their life totals are still sinking which keeps the game moving. At the end of the game I may lose, but people are never mad at me because they just don’t realize that they each took 25-30 damage from me. It’s sneaky
Big note on Grothama - the choice to fight is made on resolution of the ability. What this means is that, if grothama has a combat trick, you can just choose not to fight. So combat tricks are a lot less exciting than you'd think. If you're throwing a bunch of creatures into it, they could wait until you fight it a couple times, so long as it's not lethal, before playing the trick, though.
Really great video! Definitely respect this point of view. Really enjoyed the thought that you guys put into making this video (and others like it). Videos like this have definitely influenced my playing style and the way that I go about deck building. Cheers!
The monarch is so fun. New to the game and just discovered it for myself during a mystery booster draft and it was a blast. Wish I had a playgroup for commander so I could build a marchesa deck
I have a really fun Xantcha deck that's basically "anti-grouphug". It's running lots of punishment effects (like Harsh Mentor and the like) and then things like Havoc Festival or Spiteful Visions that deal damage to everyone. Games with this deck are usually over quickly, and it tends to make you the arch enemy, but it's just too fun to see life totals ticking away and general chaos develop on the board as everyone's trying to stop you while they also have to attack each other.
I know "fun" is subjective, but all these commanders only seem to warp the rules or give some kind of advantage to the opponents... Are you really so bored of traditional rules? I would have expected a few more unusual or strange strategies, or some kind of strange interactions Am I the only one?
I get what u mean. I love my Noyan Dar deck as it bends what Azorius usually does and is super risky with me losing all my creature lands sometimes. But ots aggresive and fun. I also built a jank deck which is.... Black people Tribal😂. I make a lot of edgy race jokes during the games and the banter in general just talking about the deck is amazing.
What a lot of other people don't seem to understand is that figuring out how to overcome a challenge is one of the things that makes commander so fun! So what I think is that people tend to correlate playing against tough decks with an unpleasant experience but really the part that is unfun is when you don't get to interact with everyone else's board or at least not having an opportunity or possibility to stop the other players from winning. For example most people would rather loose to big stompy creatures then someone who takes infinite turns, this is because there is usually an opportunity to deal with the big creatures but there is usually not a way to deal with infinite turns. "Combos vs Power" they aren't the same thing!
A fun thing they didn’t mention is the interaction between Grothama and Vigor, that every turn drastically increases the power and toughness of all of you me attacking creatures
I built a deck around Atris, Oracle of Half Truths. It's minigame tribal. It's all stuff like Fact or Fiction, Measure of Wickedness, Pain's Reward, that kind of thing. Slight sub-theme of Sphinx tribal because a lot of Sphinx have these sort of effects attached to them. Really fun to play and play against. The whole table get involved making the piles etc. Really fun for everyone, and then you die because it sucks at closing out a game.
As someone who played a lot against Ruhan I must say, it wasn't too much fun. Actually he got prioritized quite a lot and often times we encountered situations in which we would have needed the Ruhan player to stop another player from winning and they couldn't do anything because they had no control over their commander.
Grothama! I actually have a Grothama Group Hug Deck. It keeps all players happy because it prevents getting mana screwed, it always replenishes all players hands, and it has fog effects to save people from combat damage. I love playing it with new people/pods.
I love Pheldagrif since you can activate the abilities multiple times by holding priority and activating the ability's multiple times. My favorite thing to do with this is to activate the return to hand ability 5 or 6 times to have one special friend draw 5 or 6 cards ❤
First off, I'm shocked that Kenrith, the Returned King isn't on your list! I feel like he has the potential to be the best political commander in the format. I have a... 1. Kynaios and Tiro group hug deck. Its sub-themes are goad, +1/+1 counters, and friendly upkeep triggers like Howling Mine and Rites of Flourishing. 2. Queen Marchesa group slug deck. It has a large focus on making my opponents choose between bad and worse constantly. I was inspired by the Saw movies... 3. Mayael creature drop deck. It of course wants to run a lot of power 5, or greater creatures, but it also tries to cheat big stuff into play through various methods. I'm building a... 1. Thantis voltron deck. Try to imagine a Thantis voltron deck for a moment. Tons of +1/+1 counter related stuff and ways to protect the gigantic arachnid. That's it... 2. Ruhan giant tribal deck. Since there isn't a Jeskai giant tribal commander other than him, Ruhan will have to do. I'm running, or will run the rest of these in the 99 of my decks... I have over 50 though, so that's not hard to do.
I played against a Kami of the Crescent Moon deck at an LGS and it is, to this day, one of the most enjoyable play experiences I've ever had. Everyone always had to discard 3+ cards to hand size, everyone had sufficient lands, everyone got to do something their deck was built to do. He won with Persistent Petitioners, but my lord was it fun
I absolutely consider how a deck is going to play with opponents. The social aspect of commander is a huge part of what makes me love it. Are all my decks nice? No, I tend to play rather aggressive on the whole. But I always try to ensure I keep "kill the mood" cards to a minimum and include proactive and action oriented cards as much as I can.
I used to run a Mayael deck with lots of 1, 2 and hopping over to 5+-drops. It's fun running big creatures backed by lots of small ones with neat abilities pinging and tapping enemy blockers. You can sort of go wide and deep at the same time.
I have a Tasigur-Hug deck my friends love to see. Every game is different as I run all the good symmetrical effects for everyone. Card draw, land drops and even plucking lands from the deck straight onto the field! Same usual win cons for a Tasigur deck (big mana Villinous Wealth etc) but I use Tasigur, The Golden Fang as a "favours" commander and it is great. "Im going to Tasigur now, you (a player at the table) pick a card and let me know how you want it used. But, in return, dont attack me or you let me choose a card next time" Usually leads to very exaggerated plays and quick games as people can go from drawing 4 cards a turn + 2 land drops + lands tap for a additional mana OR by turn 6 we each can have 20+ lands in play and the game is now utter chaos. Best to see it in action really ^^
I always think about fun as well. I know what my playgroups do not like. More importantly, we always discuss games on our way home. One day we were talking about how our games had gotten slow the previous couple of games. So, I build a xantcha deck that was all about inciting aggression. My favorite card in this is havoc festival as it is a way to stop long games.
Had a conversation with my playgroup on the Monarch topic. Our version is that Player 4 doesn't start with the Monarch in play, but becomes the Monarch when a creature Player 4 controls deals combat damage to an opponent, if it is the first time a creature Player 4 controls dealt combat damage this game.
A couple weeks ago watched my buddy play Tempt with Discovery with 5 people in game. We were all so mana screwed by bad luck nobody could say no. He won but man was that fun to start playing...
Someone in my playgroup/LGS has managed to make Marchesa the most oppressive control deck imaginable. He filled it to the brim with cards that blow stuff up or exile it. He even found counterspells in his colors. He is a math teacher that likes to bring hard logic to the table. We constantly had to count his mana and sources of destruction to see wether our stuff would live. I was playing Jodah, so I cried all game. Nobody dared attacking him in fear of his revenge. Despite him being able to destroy even Progenitus, it was an interesting game that I will remember for a long time.
Kynaios and Tiro is easily one of my favorite decks and it is always fun to be able to enable everyone at the table. My Kynaios and Tiro oversized card is 3D, consisting of multiple layers of this oversized card on top of each other with certain parts cut out in order to create depth. Spreading more of the group huggy love is easier this way ;) When building a deck, I keep how fun it is to play against in mind, always. Might be the reason I've got a deck for 4 of the commanders mentioned...
HelpImStuck I’d like to build a K&T deck. I’d like the other players to like it but I also want a chance to (non-combo) win. Any chance you have a deck list for yours posted anywhere? Thanks!
One of my buddies plays a mono green stompy Grothama deck, and the guy almost NEVER plays Grothama without the intention of fighting and killing it himself on his turn. For as much as it COULD be interactive with the board state, that card draw for yourself can put you leaps and bounds ahead.
So, I actually tried the variant with the 4th player as the Monarch. It's definitely interesting and accelerates the game, but in my playgroup's experience it tends to give the 4th player too much of an advantage. I'd almost be more willing to just give the 4th player an extra card draw once on their first or second turn. But it's definitely fun and certainly creates a lot more aggro and politicking than normal
I bought all 2016 commanders the day they came out and surprisingly K&T is the one that I played and fine tuned the most and it turned out to be one of my favorite deck. Even if it is not a ''real'' group hug deck (I play really threatening creatures and combos and actually try to win) it has a very good reception from other players. When I play this deck, I say ''show me what you got'' and big stuff happens. I never win a game where any opponent can say they did nothing because they were land screwed or had no cards to play.
Late to the party, but I started playing again a few months back. A buddy suggested Edric, spymaster of Trest for a pretty simple to pilot affair. I send evasive, low CMC creatures for cards, but everyone winds up with cards. It's an absolute riot. Still never won with it, but often can knock someone out. And the game never stops.
I used to play Selvala, Explorer Returned as a G/W combo commander. She was awesome and didn't win too many games to be toxic. She had Parley, which allowed everyone at the table to draw a card while also giving me mana. The trick was to double or triple the mana she produced and combo with Sword of the Paruns or Umbral Mantle to make every player draw out their library. The win was not super consistent, but it was always unexpected and she was a really fair commander. I think I should rebuild her, but without any combos. I loved that deck and something about G/W/x is really good about being a policeman for the table that hates on powerful decks while helping weaker ones to smooth out games.
I have a Kami of the Crescent Moon group hug deck that is a blast when I'm only aiming to drink and play cards. Regularly having everyone drawing 4 cards per draw step, while giving them infinite mana w/ dramatic reveal combo and spectral searchlight. Helpful without being helpless 😅
The full list of commanders they talked about is:
1- Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis 6:14
2- Xantcha, sleeper agent 9:05
3- Grothama, all devouring 12:03
4- braids conjurer adept 14:58
5- Thantis, the Warweaver 18:16
6- Queen Marchesa 21:20
7- Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist 25:43
8- Ruhan or the Fomori 27:40
9- Phelddagrif 29:28
10- Mayael the Anima 32:49
Thanks
Came here looking for this. Thx!
Thank you
The hero we deserve
The Hero we need :-)
Jimmy: "I don't do anything thats too oppressive ever"
...Mindslaver locks JLK 😂
that's only one player though... I've seen worse so he ain't wrong
To be fair, JLK killed Jimmy with Baron von Count in the UnSanctioned episode, lol -- because Mindslaver lock. 😂
@@denomi39 he ain't wong
I love their dynamic
Very sibling esque
@@denomi39 No he is wrong, one player or not Mindslaver locking someone is absolutely oppressive. He can't say he dosen't do thing likes that "ever" when he has. If he wants to say he dosen't do it often then sure we can talk. But don't smugly sit there acting like mind slaver locking someone isn't an oppressive unfun move. Lock implys it can done without end, things that are infinite are oppressive. If you sit down at a table and start mind slaver locking someone out of the game, the rest of the table will groan cause they know it's coming for them too.
Kynaios and Tiro is my first (and so far only) edh deck. I absolutely love it, and so does everyone else at the table when it shows up =)
Also, one quick thing: they are not two "1/4"s. Actually, they are two" 1/1" human soldier + the 0/6 wall of the fortress/palace thing where they are standing. That's what you call on point flavor 👌
I was just about to say this one.
Yeah 2 1/1 soldiers with the Guardians of Meletis 0/6
So what are aiming to do with it to win? Landfall value ?
How about a Game Knights episode where this commanders are all played in a round.
Only if Wotc tells em to
Deathkeeper theyre literally releasing an episode on Thursday where they are playing just random decks they like
Yes that would be a fun one too watch!
You asked, "do you consider other people's enjoyment when deckbuilding". It is the absolute number one thing I consider for *any* deck that I play, I have literally pulled apart decks that I thought were really cool, but ended up being too annoying to play against because of some kind of thing that I didn't stop to consider. I built Siona, Captain of the Pyleas recently and it was really fun, very fair, but keeping track of all my auras ended up annoying people far more than I expected,. So I took it apart and made a dragon tribal with Lathliiss, Dragon Queen and included all kinds of cool references to pop culture like with Throne of the High City (aka the Iron Throne of Westeros), and as many cool promo dragon cards as I could find.
I also relentlessly quote Smaug.
I'm glad to hear that there's someone else who wants everyone to have a good time. To me, it's a casual game with friends. If I'm the only one having fun, it's not. So, I have intentionally not built decks that I knew would be overwhelming. I also intentionally didn't put Ulamog in a deck. I like to win sure, but it's not why I play.
For that Mayael deck concept, I know someone who did the same thing with Doran, The Siege Tower as his commander. He never know what kind of creatures he will have each time he plays. Sometime infect creature, sometime lifegain creature, sometime just big toughness creatures etc. It's very fun for all players around the table!
I've built probably 5 versions of Marchesa, the best and most fun part has been having surprise on my side. No one knows how I'm building it next (graveyard?? Politics?? Group slug??) and the Sunforger package is always filled with secrets ("thats why its so big, its filled with secrets") 😂
my marchesa politics is problably my favorite deck ever
I had similar deck where I ran mathas,fiend seeker as the commander instead and it was the most fun deck I've ever played
I'm considering making a superfriends deck with her, because deathtouchers are great blockers. =D
Unexpected mean elves. Have a like.
My favourite deck is actually just Knight Tribal with Marchesa as the Commander. It started out as a joke 'Queen Marchesa and her Noble Knights' but actually ended up being an incredibly fun deck with a lot of interaction.
4:34 is the start of the episode!
You are the hero de needs and deserves
thank you! That intro made me take out my headset... jesus... So annoying and loud
Mah man!
Thanks dude!
These episode start comments never get enough love!
We need a double feature Game Knights. One where each player is playing with the worst commanders to play against and one where they are playing with the best
Wasn't that the Christmas episode? Lol
OMG that is such a good idea for Mayael! I had my Mayael deck for a long time and do keep changing creatures out, but this will make it so much more fun! And saves me worrying about which creatures to keep in. I love it. Thanks!
Thank you guys for working hard to put this kind of content in a time when most of the world is in quarantine. It's nice to know that we can enjoy Commander even if we can't physically play the game.
I play Thantis self curse to try to get my opponents to attack into Thantis, it is super fun!
Same, all the goad and force combat cards. Akroan horse and other cards that make everyone tokens and have everyone swinging around with 5+ tokens a round. Or just suit thantis up with assault suit
Trove of Temptation is my favorite addition to my Thantis deck. I get a treasure each turn, but more importantly, it FORCES opponents to attack me. So pretty much, each rotation of the table, I get to kill three creatures, and Thantis gets at least 3 counters on him.
I like goad!
@@eskimoprime09 Trove is the best card in the deck imo! I hope we get that effect printed more!!
I never thought of thantis like that. Thats pretty good if youre the biggest combat deck!
Jimmy, did you point out "4 mana 7/7" for any... particular reason?
Cause I'm paranoid now and hear "Bring the light" everywhere.
Sorry buddy, still not as bad as hearing "Troggs rule!", whenever you close your eyes.
@@miguellukban9622 MY JAWS THAT BITE MY CLAWS THAT CATCH
EVERYONE - EVERYONE - EVERYONE, GET IN HERE - GET IN HERE - GET IN HERE
oger
I'm in charrrge now
I'm so proud because one of my friends willingly traded his Narset to me and said: "Yea I know you're not gonna break it" and now I have a Narset flavor deck that everyone seems to love playing against. I've never seen people be hyped to see someone cast/swing with Narset before :D I'm so happy
You have list?
"Thantis forces things to happen"... sounds pretty much like the grand reason why my playgroup plays with Monarch always. First blood gets you the crown. We love it!
It amazes me you guys don't use it!
We also have another rule for Monarch games, whenever the crown hasn't fallen from a specific player's head at the end of the 3rd consecutive turn of the table, it falls again on the table. This caveat prevents anyone from hoarding the crown and drawing cards like crazy.
I also think of my friends when deckbuilding, it takes some years of playing sometimes to realise how important that is. Once you start doing it though, it's hard to go back to competitive thinking.
Thanks for the episode fellas, you rock!
Kudos from cheesie, confined France!
I'm so glad you mentioned Thantis. People have groaned when I have revealed it, but have been won over with some really fun games that don't run overly long. Iteration is forced, and people often time get real creative on how to deal with each other when Thantis is out.
Forcing action is why, in my playgroup, we always play with the monarch. My friends are so conservative with their cards, having the monarch open on the playgroup for the first one doing dmg to a player just makes the early game more interactive.
I find that I have more fun when we are all able to react/interac in a game. As I provide the decks for all our playgroup, I tend to leave some weakness intentionally to leave some interaction open... And budget restrict my options, so there's that.
I feel like the biggest misconception people have is how fun group hug decks are. As its often really just a control deck or it plays mana flare and then the next player just wins.
Mine is really geared towards everyone else drawing out on same turn. get as many everyone draws as i can on field. once everyone is around 20-30 cards in deck ill shuffle my graveyard in library and cast my Everyone Draws X once or twice. i avoid control and went more madness/escape creatures and token spam for survivability. I feel its no fun if i give everyone 5to8 cards a turn and then dont let any of it happen. mainly i made mine like so for short games and no one can complain about mana when my deck is ingame.
I really dislike playing against Group Hug. Decks arent build to have that kind of absurd acceleration, and it basically says that whoever has the greediest list will end up winning the game.
Thats just the misconception of group hug. Youre not supposed to build it with all the cards that say: ALL PLAYERS BENEFIT FROM THIS. Youre supposed to put more targeted friendly stuff in the deck so you can play around with politics. I have experienced the problem you mentioned a lot of times in the past, and also realised that it was not a fun way to play it. I have a Kenrith (which has exactly the type of effects i'm talking about) built the proper way, and ive been getting some great responses!
Ben Williams I will kill somebody as fast as possible if they’re playing group hug. It’s just another form of control, but they use emotions instead of spells. It’s annoying and frustrating to deal with. I don’t care if I lose for it, I will take them with me. This is the only type of deck I will play I like this against.
I think the key is to not play it as "group" hugs, but more "targeted" hugs. As in "You and only you can have this benefit, if you attack that player for a few turns, or at least don't attack me". I have a Phelldagrif deck that used to be group hug, and I found it to be much more fun (and control-focused) to only give hand outs to people who have something to offer me. And it wins, a surprising amount of the time.
"Pull out one of these decks and try to make it up to them a little."
Nothing to lessen the tention like good quality "make-up decks"
Remember to sleeve your deck
Seeing my girl Grothama finally getting the recognition she deserves makes me so happy. Her deck is by far my favorite deck and it always seems that my opponents have fun playing against it. Maybe it's because turns where I draw 54 cards or ones where I have two Grothamas on board together with Vigor and my Llanowar Elves just turned into a 41/41 creature.
can you guys share your deck list? i would love to try it out!
@Levi Hamer can you guys share your deck list? i would love to try it out!
Do you have a decklist? I'm looking into it but to competre in my playgroup it need=s to be a 8/10 or more.
Too me decks like these embody the original spirit of commander. They are geared towards a multiplayer format, they allow you to play/do big flashy stuff in various ways, and they still allow you to regularly win games. There’s no oppressive stacks or turn 3 combos. Just raw power coupled with fun social interaction. Good stuff
So if we leave out Mayael, do we call them the "Flower Nine" now?
"Flower"? 🤔
@@ty_sylicus Because flowers are fun.
@Flower Power. Unless you play Undertale. Then the flower isn't fun. Lol
Jimmy says that K&T decks put people in "quarantine." Was this video recorded before things got all crazy? If so, Jimmy is quite the prophetic flamespeaker.
It's been a thing since last year. I doubt that this episode was recorded before 11/2019
@@mthlay15 ah yes, show me the big quarantine-ing and isolation in Europe and america in 2019.
Most people did not really care about wuhan.
@@Narabedla4 People only didn't care if they didn't pay attention.
DragonbIaze052 so, almost everyone not from Wuhan.
Jimmy's nails are colored and it's all I can focus on.
theyre magic colors with matching sigils.
I can't pull my attention away from the piles of salt and siracha sauce on the left side.
I do generally think about my opponents when I build my decks, however sometimes I underestimate what my deck does. I made a golos lotus field- thespian stage land value deck with a lot of untap permanents shenanigans and legendary/ planeswalkers main theme. I thought it wouldn't be bad to play against, since it wouldn't be oppressive not many tutors except for conflux which is one of the main wincons, with not much interaction.
However, there was one thing I didn't think about. The deck takes long turns. The untap shenanigans and tens of planeswalkers take a lot of time, with all these triggers etc. It's one of my favorite decks and I played it a lot. But I'm thinking of getting rid of it because I feel like it's not fit for my playgroup. They said it's fine but if I look at them and their reaction I feel like it's not.
Maybe don't get rid of it, just play it a bit less
Play it a bit less yes, and maybe take some walkers out? I hate watching my opponent activate 4+ walkers and take 10min+ turns, but getting value out of untap shenanigans? I’m always down!
I made a 'Sakashima the Imposter' deck for fun, all the copy/duplicate effects i could find(and there's a ton!). I thought my group would like playing against this, because i'm essentially sending their own creatures back at them. what ended up happening was that everyone at the table would forget what is a copy of what, which effects were happening targeting what.. it became very confusing. i started needing to tear off little pieces of paper and write the name of whateverI'm copying on the card, and then people walking past the table would send them flying. just no fun.
ever since then I always think about how my deck will be perceived while making it.
I have a muldrotha smokestack/birthing pod deck and it's not a terribly oppressive deck by any means, in fact I would say it is one of the "weaker" decks in my LGS but when it works and goes off people say it's very unfun to play against because it's made to be a toolbox answer style deck with BP and Vannifar so I consistently have answers and when the smokestack plan comes together I can sometimes put 12 counters on it and it doesn't slow me down at all.
I see where the other players say "hey this isnt very fun to play against" but one of those players uses Turns Narset and another plays Grand Arbiter fort. I wouldn't take apart a deck you enjoy just because other people dont like it, I would just suggest having a second more linear and focused deck
@@richardjohnson8991 Just cut the tutors.
Eric Landis and I must be kindred spirits, I have a Maelstrom Wanderer deck that has a main deck of 50 cards including lands and ramp, then I have a 250 card "sideboard" that I randomly select 50 cards to fill in the rest of the deck slots each time I play. It's a ton of fun and it adds to the excitement of the game on top of a very dynamic commander.
When I see the Command Zone Logo show up in my notifications, I fill with joy! Thank you guys for making amazing videos.
I recently put together a Mayael list, and she's awesome with a "lands matter" subtheme. Pulling as many lands out of my library really helps Mayael's ability, and all the landfall triggers and other stuff happening creates a ton of extra value. =)
I'm tempted put Ruric Thar on my fav play against list (Game Knights brought it to mind).
Pros: game dynamics change so fast, game ends aggressively, and punishes control decks.
Cons: turn order matters. When you play against decks like Ruric Thar, sitting to the right of them is preferred (just like sitting to the left of Braids is preferred).
There are a slough of commanders that are like this (seat order matters); just think of the last time you played with Nekusar at the table.
Haha.
Now i want to see a game with Nekusar + Ruric Thar + Braids + ... Pramicon! (Idk spelling off top of head).
Talk about turn order mattering...
Mayael was my first commander when I first heard about EDH in 2009. After this video it’s now a 61 card deck with a 104 cards 5 or greater creature to put in randomly.
Ismaru, Hound of Konda is my favorite commander.
Jacob Schiller silly Jacob, the best commander is Soraya the Falconer
@@alexmartin3433 good thing he said favorite and not best lol
my favorate commander is Krenko Mob Boss
My favorite is Omnath Locus of the Roil. If you want to have a good time, go risen reef into Omnath, into tempt with vengence with X being alot of Mana.
Your all wrong!! Yuriko the tiger's shadow is way better!! Lol well that's what I think
I could see doing a Mystery Deck with Atla Palani Mystery Eggs. you build the "shell" pun in tended and have a giant pile of any creature you want, you dont even have to limit yourself to 5+ power.
comander replay did something similar where he made an egg deck with "big fatties you forgot exist"
I'd much rather play against Stax than Group Hugs. Hugs makes combo decks win easier and the player following the hugs deck has a huge advantage
Thanks for the double mana!!! Void winnower and newlamog exile it and a land
Yeah, surprised to not see more comments of this nature. Group hug isn't fun to play with.
yea, people can fight against the stax together, but they both have a chance to slow down or quicken the game
Hey i get to play 5 games instead of 1 tonight...i'll take it, especially if everyone has a chance to combo out in the night.
My play group does this.
Mostly stax, land destruction, and control. Win combos or all out lock outs.
Its a very miserable game to sit on. But fun at the sametime when you see a winter orb and 5 counters on the stack on turn 3...
I personally keep a bear tribal deck to pull out when things become a drag. It brings fun to the table as everyone starts to make bear puns.
I'm sure you all are working extra hard, especially with 2020 being the year of commander; but I was wondering if the CommandZone will be interacting with the new Mystery Booster product in any way?
How would they interact with it? It's just reprints
They could do what they did with Iconic masters which was pretty fun to watch
I had a Mayael deck back in the Alara days. Naya big stuff has been taken over by Zacama since they came out, though... dinosaurs are what pulled me back in after a pretty long hiatus.
I do always end up thinking about my opponents when I’m deck building. It keeps me from doing anything too oppressive or that combos out too quickly. I have a couple of fast, combo decks, but most of the time I’m purposefully aiming my decks at being more towards the 6-7 range. I don’t show up to a game of magic to play solitaire or watch someone else play solitaire. I like winning, but I value my decks “doing their thing” over winning most of the time. If my deck does what it’s designed to do, I’m generally happy. And if I’m losing too much in a single day, well that’s what those combo decks are for
With all the commanders that have been released over the last few years it would be awesome to see an updated version of this video!
I play K&T "card draw tribal." My favorite finisher is Forced Fruition and Runeflare Trap because it escalates the game, but my friends know they just might die if they get greedy.
My friends and I play Commander since 2015 now, and because I love deck brewing (in fact, it's more than half of the fun for me), all my lists are built from scratch.
Looking back, I noticed that I went through different "evolutionary stages" as a deckbuilder.
My first homebrewed EDH deck was Doran treefolk tribal. Very flavorful, but also very janky. It kept losing horribly to the Daretti and Teferi precons my friends were playing at that time.
Because of that, the next "phase" was to build focused decks that wanted to win, even if that meant to cut my opponents off from their resources. I had a Liliana, Heretical Healer discard deck and Nekusar stax, with the result that a) I was the archenemy most of the time and b) I saw a lot of hanging shoulders and bored faces when looking around the table.
Now, I love to build flavorful but strong casual decks that include group hug-ish cards like Heartwood Storyteller or Oath of Lieges, and do fun and/or crazy stuff that keeps everyone on their toes, but also engaged and excited. And that's what Commander should be all about.
The thing is that if my oponents arnt having fun im not really having fun. I love the reaction of my oponents when i do something cool. I just want a fun game where theres a lot of laughter and memories
Starting the game with the Monarch is really awesome! In our playgroup we play a 60 singletons cards format using planeswalker at "Commander" and we start with the Monarch in play.
Love playing my Thantis deck, best moment I've had so far was when someone cast an Ulamog and my response on my turn was Disrupt Decorum. Luckily the folks at the table took it a little better than the card art XD
Would Arachogenesis be played?
@@austinward9741 Absolutely, great card even if Thantis is the only spider in the deck
Hey guys awesome episode! Just wanted to say this to Josh if he decides to build a Grothama deck. So I built my Grothama deck when the battlebond set came out and the two best kind of explosive I have in my deck is: Mossbridge Troll and Storm Seeker. Have fun brewing :)
I always am conscious of if my opponents will have fun when I deck build. Like I cut Lavinia of the Tenth and knight-captain of eos from my Aminatou deck because I was like it’s just gonna make everybody else miserable and hate me.
I build a Xantcha (Curses) deck recently and I can sure say the games got so, so much fun! Mind you that our playgroup has both Urza and Mizzix. Xantcha just plainly fucked up the meta, forced everyone out of their shells and disrupted strategies in a genuinely fun way. My impression was that Xantcha is the exact opposite of stax. It (almost) forces people to do stuff and to interact with the board instead of searching for their wincons. So I can definitely recommend building Xantcha. It’s fun for everyone, creates absurd situations and spices up the game without getting the people salty. Xantcha is the Chili in your Pho and you want it! ^^
Is there a decklist for the Mayael deck anywhere? That sounds really fun.
Seconded!!
Also interested in this!
Also coundnt find a decklist from "Eric Landis"... Anyone who can help?
Got it: ruclips.net/video/q1PNTDgKw5Y/видео.html
Posted my personal list on a separate comment! :D
I've built Admiral Beckett Brass with tons of exchange and trade effects, stuff like conjured currencies, eyes everywhere, captivating glance and stuff, alongside unsummons and pirates and called it the "East Empire Trading Co", a referrence to The Elder Scrolls' sailing merchants guild that are totally not pirates. It's the most flavorful deck I've ever built and I'm just trying to entice the players at the table with deals they may or may not regret.
Jimmy looks like Michael Scott after everybody at The office roasted him.
I made a Sliver Queen deck that ran every alternative win conditions I had access to (except Battle of Wits, for obvious reasons) and the rule was I had to focus on the win condition I drew first. I had no ideal before hand if I was worried about getting one of each land type or a loaded graveyard or 50 life or something else.
My Favourite is Probably Nekusar. Everyone at the table seems more likely to keep a greedy hand... and they definitely can mostly. Card draw for everyone, howling mine, party Jace or tons of wheel effects let's everyone enjoy there Deck.
I mean, my playgroup always kills me first with Nekusar. I usually play him when we need a faster game because he gives everyone a clock that keeps getting faster and speeds up with wheels
I like playing Kaalia of the vast against Nekusar... The only weakness the deck has is card draw... Thanks Nekusar!
I have roughly 15 decks across the color wheel built that are meant to be played with each other, so in general I don’t play with win conditions that not all colors have answers to. This generally shoots enchantress or graveyard out, and it’s been fun trying to tune the pod to itself.
Oh my goodness freaking planechase.
Somehow every time I've played with planechase someone always gets totally screwed over.
Great memory of a game I lost terribly was ending up on the plane that mills each turn playing against a graveyard deck. He powered up very fast, and no one could roll to get us off the plane.
My Kynaios and Tiro is more focused on ramp. Giving people draw engines and land.
The most notable combo in the deck is Folio of Fancies + Smothering Tithe.
For (X)(X)(T): I can make each player draw X cards. Then for each card they draw, they pay (2) or else I get a Treasure- which normally I use to just refuel the Folio, so people are okay not paying the 2 because they just get extra draw. Nothing wrong with having everyone draw 80 cards. :)
The deck also has bonus ramping with Mana Flare, Rites of Flourishing, Dictate of Kruphix, Howling Mine, Veteran Explorer, and Avatar of Growth.
The deck also utilizes other commanders that accelerate the field immensely. Chulane and Karametra.
I've been playing Tahngarth Gruul Hug, most fun I've had playing in a long time
You peaked my interest, do tell some of what you're doing with that!? I love RG and the Weatherlight crew( I want to make a deck for each person eventually) so please share!
I've been considering building a Tahngarth deck! Looks so fun and unique.
@@d.k.sovereign8642 It's just mana doublers, group ramp, damage doublers, howling mine effects and earthquake effects, with some voltron for tahngarth to survive
Mayael was my first deck, and still my favorite to play today. So many of my other decks get locked into the same groove. Mayael is a fresh game every time.
I love you josh and jimmy giving me hope dearing this pendemic I hope I can make it to gp Vegas’s you guys are my favorite RUclipsrs and you guys have you made me a commander player
I play Possibility Storm in a 5C legendary deck. I understand a lot of people hate that card but it makes it completely random for me too. It made it somewhat like a chaotic Braids/Group Hug game. And it instantly made the games more fun for everybody. I could tell the other players were enjoying what was going on. They even had ways to remove Possibility Storm but decided not to use it. Maybe it's just my playgroups but it was a really fun experience.
Something Josh and Jimmy don't really acknowledge enough on their show is that they're not Magic experts. They tell everybody what to do and how to play and whats ok and not ok, and they even spike card prices if they talk about their favorite cards, but they never say, "Hey guys just a reminder, this is all highly subjective and we don't claim to know everything about Magic." I'm only saying this because their opinions really sway people, because people think they're the high authority on all things commander. They're not. And shocker - sometimes they're wrong!
Thank goodness you are here to state the obvious! What would we do without you?
Holy shit, thanks dude. Up until this point I had thought both of them basically created magic because I can not think for myself at all.
You saved us bro.
lol y
I've built so many of these decks lol. My Grothama deck was just tribal wurms (took it apart because it was a bad deck with good pieces). I had a pheldagriff deck that just aimed to make infinite mana and make everyone draw their decks (people would get kinda salty because it sure looked like a group hug deck). I still have my kynaios and tiro deck together and it's my favorite deck. Its group hug with a splash of chaos. I have 2 win cons. Folio of Fancies because I love that card and Aetherflux Reservoir but I don't have any other life gain in the deck (aside from parley Selvala).
Anyone remember jimmy from VGHS
First Name Goes Here I only realized very recently Jimmy was in VGHS. And that was only because i rewatched the series and saw his name
@@graysonchristian2668 lol ya I knew jimmy from VGHS then I learned he played mtg
my personally fun commander is Darien, King of Kjeldor. 6 cost mono-white with "when you are delt damage you may make a number of 1/1 soldier tokens equal to that damage." My deck is absolutely stuffed with cards that deal damage to myself and also heal for 1 when a creature enters the battlefield under my control, a very fun way to achieve pseudo-invincability. The goal is the be the punchingbag of the entire table and to promote interesting cooperation and use of alternative win conditions.
I like to think about how everyone play experience is, One of my favorite types of decks are sort of group hate. Like play a land take dmg, draw a card take damage basically adding a life cost to everything you do, but I dont like game locks or mana taxing effects. I like keeping the game moving while letting everyone else play magic.
I love burn effects in EDH. To me the "race against the clock feeling" is a lot of fun.
My Kambal deck is like this. It makes everyone have to dig fast for removal or they die. It also runs my fun white cards that i don't elsewhere
I have a Klothys deck that does that. People completely underestimate how much damage they take over the course of the game until it suddenly gets way out of hand. People are durdling, but their life totals are still sinking which keeps the game moving. At the end of the game I may lose, but people are never mad at me because they just don’t realize that they each took 25-30 damage from me. It’s sneaky
Big note on Grothama - the choice to fight is made on resolution of the ability. What this means is that, if grothama has a combat trick, you can just choose not to fight. So combat tricks are a lot less exciting than you'd think.
If you're throwing a bunch of creatures into it, they could wait until you fight it a couple times, so long as it's not lethal, before playing the trick, though.
even though these are fun, I'm still building my Urza cEDH deck!
Really great video! Definitely respect this point of view. Really enjoyed the thought that you guys put into making this video (and others like it). Videos like this have definitely influenced my playing style and the way that I go about deck building. Cheers!
I'm disappointed there aren't any captions. That would be nice (in most cases necessary) for hearing impaired
The monarch is so fun. New to the game and just discovered it for myself during a mystery booster draft and it was a blast. Wish I had a playgroup for commander so I could build a marchesa deck
Why didn’t atraxa make the list?🤔
WhY dIdn'T GrAnD ArBiTer AuGuStin IV MaKe THe LiSt?
I have a really fun Xantcha deck that's basically "anti-grouphug". It's running lots of punishment effects (like Harsh Mentor and the like) and then things like Havoc Festival or Spiteful Visions that deal damage to everyone. Games with this deck are usually over quickly, and it tends to make you the arch enemy, but it's just too fun to see life totals ticking away and general chaos develop on the board as everyone's trying to stop you while they also have to attack each other.
I know "fun" is subjective, but all these commanders only seem to warp the rules or give some kind of advantage to the opponents...
Are you really so bored of traditional rules? I would have expected a few more unusual or strange strategies, or some kind of strange interactions
Am I the only one?
I get what u mean. I love my Noyan Dar deck as it bends what Azorius usually does and is super risky with me losing all my creature lands sometimes. But ots aggresive and fun. I also built a jank deck which is.... Black people Tribal😂. I make a lot of edgy race jokes during the games and the banter in general just talking about the deck is amazing.
@@thyronebennett1170 thats a deck i can respect
A lot of these just want to force interaction at the table. People hiding until a haymaker is boring
What a lot of other people don't seem to understand is that figuring out how to overcome a challenge is one of the things that makes commander so fun! So what I think is that people tend to correlate playing against tough decks with an unpleasant experience but really the part that is unfun is when you don't get to interact with everyone else's board or at least not having an opportunity or possibility to stop the other players from winning. For example most people would rather loose to big stompy creatures then someone who takes infinite turns, this is because there is usually an opportunity to deal with the big creatures but there is usually not a way to deal with infinite turns. "Combos vs Power" they aren't the same thing!
A fun thing they didn’t mention is the interaction between Grothama and Vigor, that every turn drastically increases the power and toughness of all of you me attacking creatures
I built a deck around Atris, Oracle of Half Truths. It's minigame tribal. It's all stuff like Fact or Fiction, Measure of Wickedness, Pain's Reward, that kind of thing. Slight sub-theme of Sphinx tribal because a lot of Sphinx have these sort of effects attached to them. Really fun to play and play against. The whole table get involved making the piles etc. Really fun for everyone, and then you die because it sucks at closing out a game.
As someone who played a lot against Ruhan I must say, it wasn't too much fun. Actually he got prioritized quite a lot and often times we encountered situations in which we would have needed the Ruhan player to stop another player from winning and they couldn't do anything because they had no control over their commander.
My experience too. Not the most engaging gameplay you can have when you can't even choose to negotiate.
stay safe everybody, we want the command zone for many years
My Tahngarth deck always brings a smile to my playgroup. A 1/1 mana dork attack suddenly has a 5/5 (or bigger) Minotaur joining in.
Grothama! I actually have a Grothama Group Hug Deck. It keeps all players happy because it prevents getting mana screwed, it always replenishes all players hands, and it has fog effects to save people from combat damage. I love playing it with new people/pods.
I love Pheldagrif since you can activate the abilities multiple times by holding priority and activating the ability's multiple times.
My favorite thing to do with this is to activate the return to hand ability 5 or 6 times to have one special friend draw 5 or 6 cards ❤
37:53
"My playgroup always kills me first"
[looks at The First Sliver deck]
_Feels bad, man_
I'm new to Commander and my first deck was Kynaios/Tiro with Braids and Grothama in the 99, so this video was very validating. Thanks!
First off, I'm shocked that Kenrith, the Returned King isn't on your list! I feel like he has the potential to be the best political commander in the format.
I have a...
1. Kynaios and Tiro group hug deck. Its sub-themes are goad, +1/+1 counters, and friendly upkeep triggers like Howling Mine and Rites of Flourishing.
2. Queen Marchesa group slug deck. It has a large focus on making my opponents choose between bad and worse constantly. I was inspired by the Saw movies...
3. Mayael creature drop deck. It of course wants to run a lot of power 5, or greater creatures, but it also tries to cheat big stuff into play through various methods.
I'm building a...
1. Thantis voltron deck. Try to imagine a Thantis voltron deck for a moment. Tons of +1/+1 counter related stuff and ways to protect the gigantic arachnid. That's it...
2. Ruhan giant tribal deck. Since there isn't a Jeskai giant tribal commander other than him, Ruhan will have to do.
I'm running, or will run the rest of these in the 99 of my decks... I have over 50 though, so that's not hard to do.
I played against a Kami of the Crescent Moon deck at an LGS and it is, to this day, one of the most enjoyable play experiences I've ever had. Everyone always had to discard 3+ cards to hand size, everyone had sufficient lands, everyone got to do something their deck was built to do.
He won with Persistent Petitioners, but my lord was it fun
I absolutely consider how a deck is going to play with opponents. The social aspect of commander is a huge part of what makes me love it. Are all my decks nice? No, I tend to play rather aggressive on the whole. But I always try to ensure I keep "kill the mood" cards to a minimum and include proactive and action oriented cards as much as I can.
I used to run a Mayael deck with lots of 1, 2 and hopping over to 5+-drops. It's fun running big creatures backed by lots of small ones with neat abilities pinging and tapping enemy blockers. You can sort of go wide and deep at the same time.
I'm glad you mentioned Thantriss because I've been slowly pulling a Group Slug deck around her for a while now and been wanting to try out
I have a Tasigur-Hug deck my friends love to see. Every game is different as I run all the good symmetrical effects for everyone. Card draw, land drops and even plucking lands from the deck straight onto the field! Same usual win cons for a Tasigur deck (big mana Villinous Wealth etc) but I use Tasigur, The Golden Fang as a "favours" commander and it is great.
"Im going to Tasigur now, you (a player at the table) pick a card and let me know how you want it used. But, in return, dont attack me or you let me choose a card next time"
Usually leads to very exaggerated plays and quick games as people can go from drawing 4 cards a turn + 2 land drops + lands tap for a additional mana OR by turn 6 we each can have 20+ lands in play and the game is now utter chaos. Best to see it in action really ^^
I always think about fun as well. I know what my playgroups do not like. More importantly, we always discuss games on our way home.
One day we were talking about how our games had gotten slow the previous couple of games. So, I build a xantcha deck that was all about inciting aggression.
My favorite card in this is havoc festival as it is a way to stop long games.
Had a conversation with my playgroup on the Monarch topic.
Our version is that Player 4 doesn't start with the Monarch in play, but becomes the Monarch when a creature Player 4 controls deals combat damage to an opponent, if it is the first time a creature Player 4 controls dealt combat damage this game.
A couple weeks ago watched my buddy play Tempt with Discovery with 5 people in game. We were all so mana screwed by bad luck nobody could say no. He won but man was that fun to start playing...
Someone in my playgroup/LGS has managed to make Marchesa the most oppressive control deck imaginable. He filled it to the brim with cards that blow stuff up or exile it. He even found counterspells in his colors. He is a math teacher that likes to bring hard logic to the table. We constantly had to count his mana and sources of destruction to see wether our stuff would live. I was playing Jodah, so I cried all game. Nobody dared attacking him in fear of his revenge. Despite him being able to destroy even Progenitus, it was an interesting game that I will remember for a long time.
Kynaios and Tiro is easily one of my favorite decks and it is always fun to be able to enable everyone at the table. My Kynaios and Tiro oversized card is 3D, consisting of multiple layers of this oversized card on top of each other with certain parts cut out in order to create depth. Spreading more of the group huggy love is easier this way ;)
When building a deck, I keep how fun it is to play against in mind, always. Might be the reason I've got a deck for 4 of the commanders mentioned...
HelpImStuck I’d like to build a K&T deck. I’d like the other players to like it but I also want a chance to (non-combo) win. Any chance you have a deck list for yours posted anywhere? Thanks!
One of my buddies plays a mono green stompy Grothama deck, and the guy almost NEVER plays Grothama without the intention of fighting and killing it himself on his turn. For as much as it COULD be interactive with the board state, that card draw for yourself can put you leaps and bounds ahead.
So, I actually tried the variant with the 4th player as the Monarch. It's definitely interesting and accelerates the game, but in my playgroup's experience it tends to give the 4th player too much of an advantage. I'd almost be more willing to just give the 4th player an extra card draw once on their first or second turn. But it's definitely fun and certainly creates a lot more aggro and politicking than normal
I bought all 2016 commanders the day they came out and surprisingly K&T is the one that I played and fine tuned the most and it turned out to be one of my favorite deck.
Even if it is not a ''real'' group hug deck (I play really threatening creatures and combos and actually try to win) it has a very good reception from other players.
When I play this deck, I say ''show me what you got'' and big stuff happens. I never win a game where any opponent can say they did nothing because they were land screwed or had no cards to play.
Great list. My play group has several of these. Several of us have a k&t deck. It's always fun.
Love the nails Jimmy!
Late to the party, but I started playing again a few months back. A buddy suggested Edric, spymaster of Trest for a pretty simple to pilot affair. I send evasive, low CMC creatures for cards, but everyone winds up with cards. It's an absolute riot.
Still never won with it, but often can knock someone out. And the game never stops.
I used to play Selvala, Explorer Returned as a G/W combo commander. She was awesome and didn't win too many games to be toxic. She had Parley, which allowed everyone at the table to draw a card while also giving me mana. The trick was to double or triple the mana she produced and combo with Sword of the Paruns or Umbral Mantle to make every player draw out their library. The win was not super consistent, but it was always unexpected and she was a really fair commander. I think I should rebuild her, but without any combos. I loved that deck and something about G/W/x is really good about being a policeman for the table that hates on powerful decks while helping weaker ones to smooth out games.
I have a Kami of the Crescent Moon group hug deck that is a blast when I'm only aiming to drink and play cards. Regularly having everyone drawing 4 cards per draw step, while giving them infinite mana w/ dramatic reveal combo and spectral searchlight. Helpful without being helpless 😅
40:13 "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere. "