Training until failure from pump is useful for training pain tolerance and adapt your nervous system into recognizing what is a real "emergency" situation. Our brain is wired so that it protects our body from damage and will send pain signals for us to stop. This is a response that can be trained, we literally teach our brain that the situation is not a threat. If you managed to improve your endurance a lot by climbing very pumped, it's most likely that you trained your mental fortitude rather than you forearms endurance 🔥
This is very true. I setup some mock gear placement on my wall and I notice that the distraction of to place gear suppresses the pain signals and I can stay on longer (and learn that even if I feel ready to let go, I’ve got quite a bit more left if needed). I must have extended my ‘stay on wall’ states by 15% just by pain tolerance/distraction
Yeah totally agree. That and learning to move well/focus when extremely pumped. I mentioned this in another comment but in many cases we save this sort of training for 6-8 weeks out from a trip/comp to periodise base training and performance. Endurance sports do this very commonly (polarisation), only training "race pace" in the lead up to a performance.
This comment is exactly what I was looking for. I feel that, many times, when I'm climbing a route I feel like I'm too pump to go on and often I ask "Take!!!". Then I re Start almost immediately and I'm able to "send". I feel very frustrated because I start to think that this is not an issue of real endurance, but my brain, when the pump start to FEEL real, goes in "fly mode". I'm not trained to recognize a REAL emergency, like you are saying. I think that lately I lost most of my OS attemps due to this.
@@francescabonvini4382It's worth training to see how far you can take that feeling while you're bouldering around near the floor - you should try to find a way of motivating yourself to get past the pain. It was such a win for me to get over the 'OMG I'm going to fall while clipping' effect
I believe the main benefit of training for the pump failure that is not talk about is that it is mainly good for knowing when you are "truly" about to fail, so when you are pumped on a route, you can keep calm knowing that even if you REALLY pumped, your tank isn't quite empty. Making you push for those extra key moves. I call it the "courage energy system". Being about to resist psychological distress the closer you get from having depleted all resources.
The "courage energy system", I like it. We think this is best saved for certain times in a training plan. The big mistake people make is ONLY training like this. At 4-8 weeks out from a climbing trip is when training the "courage energy system" really comes into play. This is similar to practicing "race pace" in running or cycling. But it's much less common in off-season.
0:25 Absolutely correct. Thumbs up. The general rule is to know the performance determinants in a sport, identify an individual's most performance-limiting deficits among these determinants, and implement a training strategy that most effectively addresses these specific deficits. The derived regime could look and feel completely different from the sport one is training for. A "copy-how-you-compete" approach works and has its own, in a different way specific justification, but often it results in mixed effects, which are usually less effective than polarized concepts (exceptions exist).
How about this idea, we take the first exercise and modify it. We find a wall where we have a route that can provide us with the 1 min of high intensity climbing and also on the same wall there would be an easy route that we can climb comfortably with our aerobics system. We then climb one minute high intensity, without getting of the wall, climb 2 min low intensity and repeat for a few reps. This targets the specific adaptation of being able to recover one energy system while utilizing a different energy system
One thing I don't understand... As an analogy to running, I can train two aerobic factors: 1) speed I can sustain, and 2) distance I can sustain it for. Typically the first through intervals, and the second through volume. The exercise you proscribe seems to build volume, but not a sustained intensity. When should we be working in a more interval-type training for climbing endurance? How should it be programmed along with a low intensity volume workout?
I remember watching this the first time. I didnt understand all of it, but the second time around something clicked and it made so much sense and gave me a lot of new impulses to think about my training differently. Thanks a lot!
Wow. Love it. The biggest leap I ever had in endurance in forearm capacity was after a month doing multipitch in the French alps, Chamonix area. Guess it was long (25 minutes on a pitch at a time), trad so within reasonable intensity (6a and below), and slow placing gear, and at altitude. Never really explained why until now. Bet the combination of moderate intensity, long duration AND altitude is good.
@@0xf7c8 Honestly, that's total bullshit. The idea that 5.10- is "never pump" territory is just wrong, especially trad where you have to hang out and place gear. Let alone at altitude. And these are outdoor grades on classic test pieces that set the grade. Not soft gym grades set up to flatter clients.
Would long-duration assisted hangs on a bar or jug rung be a viable alternative to continuous on-the-wall climbing? Obviously it'd be incredibly boring (and less specific), but spending 5-20 minutes on the wall in a gym isn't going to be viable for a lot of people. e: tried this out today, kinda blows. For me at least the amount of weight I can support for 5+ minutes is about 1/3rd of body weight so I need am inconvenient amount of assistance to make it work at all. That said, while I was hanging out I had a better idea: farmers carries with dumbbells. Basically, pick a heavy weight you can hold for a few minutes and lighter weight you can hold forever. Hold one weight in each hand and walk around until your forearm on the heavy side starts to feel a bit pumped. Once you hit that point swap the weights between your hands so the pumped side can recover with the lighter weight while still doing a bit of work. If you choose your weights right you should eventually settle down into a steady rhythm with each side carrying the heavier weight for about the same time. Rinse and repeat until you hit time. It's still pretty boring, but being able to walk around helps a lot.
@@BrettRobertPierce That hanging on a bar is not an effective way of reproducing you moving on a wall as a way of training ARC for forearms ? It's the same as usual : the less specific the training is, the less effective it is. Hanging on a bar will get you better at hanging on a bar. That might come handy in your projects if it involves hanging on jugs, but that's it. The key to training is transfer into climbing (unless you're having fun training the thing in itself which is totally fine), and i think that the amount of transfer from hanging onto a bar or jugs is near 0.
@@Ptitviaud1337 I'm not sure specificity is as critical for the aerobic adaptations that ARCing is supposed to stimulate. For strength training specificity is king because the neurological recruitment improvements you get from strength training are only going to be transferrable if the exercise being trained has some resemblance to the sport. For energy system training the adaptations are local to the muscle itself. I figure that as long as you're making the target muscle work at the right intensity you should get a similar stimulus for aerobic efficency improvements regardless of the activity. I'm no sports scientist though and I could be convinced otherwise 🤷♂
you are, overall, right, but specificity is always king to performance, even in energy systems. The evidence supporting this is empirical : you can train people on a very simplified version of anything, and they'll get better. At doing this simplified version. The question is then how much can they transfer into the actual goal ? For example, when Josh in the video climbs on the wall for the 20min version (and it's in line with what i've seen people do when doing this type of training), you can clearly see that he is in cruise mode. Doesn't think too much about placement. Defers to certain holds, or, as shown in the video, hangs off his right hand 3 times in a row (prefered clipping hand ?). My point is that even on a wall, cruising around is starting NOT to be climbing. Now, of course, that wasn't your point : would you still benefit from, a physiological point of view. Yes. BUT, and it's a big but (aha) : was is the best use of your time ? That's, truly, the kye point in training, especially for amateurs. Dedicating 20min to ARCing is very doable in a 30hours/week profesionnal training plan. In a 6hours training plan, 20min is 5% of the total. Now, what if you dedicated 5% of your time to : -stretching ? -working on drop knees, that you suck at ? -doing some pull-ups etc. And last, but not least : how do you know that you lack super long endurance ?@@oohall
Generally, small shakes which feel natural are fine, but if you are having to stop on a massive hold and shake out, you have probably got the intensity wrong. You are not on a redpoint! These different methods should be used with consideration towards your personal physical profile and goals. If you are a sport climber aiming to climb long pitches in Spain, then establishing a solid base through long continuous sessions would be more important than for a boulderer training for shorter more intense efforts (where 1 on 1 off might be more appropriate).
Hi! Super interesting video as always. I have a question: I've read your article about capillarisation and you say "In periods of training focused on capillarisation, high intensity training should be limited/tightly controlled due to release of anti-angiogenic factors when this form of training is completed.". Does this mean that I can't do strenght training while I increasing capillarisation or that I can't do them on the same day?
I found the diagram with the energy tank very useful. Please correct me if I'm wrong: we don't want to climb until failure, because that would mean 'emptying the tank'. Instead, when training the aerobic system, we want to train 'filling the tank' and doing this requires us to do a lot of volume. Is the idea that going until failure is 'bad' because this will prevent us from doing more volume, when volume is the effective training stimulus we are after?
Going to failure isn't always bad - later in the training season once a base has been established it is good! But when you are aiming to establish a base, we don't want to be doing this. For example, if you started a 1 on 1 off session at an intensity that was significantly beyond what you should be training at, and failed 20 seconds into each set because your tank was empty, the volume of training completed in that session would have been significantly reduced.
So… follow up question to this: it was mentioned that in a continuous climbing scenario, it should be done for 20-30 minutes at low intensity, and that “the last minute should feel like the first.” What would be wrong with getting to the point of pump in the first 20% of the session and then tapering the climbing grade down to be able to keep that pump for the full session, even to the point where your pealing off 5.9 holds at the end? It sounds like you are saying volume is the only criteria for endurance, so why not do volume with a painful pump? Wouldn’t that be better? For context, I only have 3 days a week 90-120min sessions to train at the gym, and I have to fit my weight training in that time as well.
Although it may seem very hard, the long volume on the wall should be done in low intensity, where you are not feeling pumped. If you don't have a circuit or autobelay you can do this at, then putting feet on the floor at an angle with enough intensity can work too. Hope this helps
You mention that fatigue is caused by the accumulation of byproducts. I was interested in understanding what exactly cause fatigue, since it could shed a light on how to train and it is also interesting in itself, and what I found was that : - Lactacte is not the cause of muscular fatigue. There is a correlation (fatigue occur and there is a lactate accumulation at the same time) but no causation. Rather, exercising produces fatigue and lactic acid as well but the latter does not produce the former. (Brooks et Fahey, 1984, Brooks, 2000) - Other leads were not conclusive as well. For instance, the accumulation of protons (H+) due to ATP hydrolysis would not explain fatigue either. It was a model with in vitro backing but it does not work in vivo (Dobson et coll., 1986 and Sahlin et Ren, 1989 ; Arnold et coll., 1994) So... The conclusion I reached was that nobody currently knows how fatigue occur. Do you have an opinion on this and sources that I could read ? Thanks !
Muscle fatigue has two contributing components; central and peripheral. Its exact physiology is a phenomenon involving an interaction between the two, and neither are 100% fully understood. Peripheral fatigue is better understood out of the two. In short it is a combination of an accumulation of anaerobic byproducts, a decrease in high energy phosphate groups and a decrease in glycogen levels. Central fatigue is less well understood. The best explanation uses the ‘Serotonin-Fatigue Hypothesis’ which explores serotonin levels during exercise. So while we can help improve fatigue resistance with things like better sleep, nutrition, mental space, this video focuses on the development of the aerobic energy system which helps with peripheral fatigue
@@thomaschambon4654 As far as the byproduct hypotheses go, try looking up “Inorganic Phosphate effect on fatigue”. There seems to be some evidence indicating it can have a disruptive effect at different levels in the muscular system and the ability to generate force during contraction.
I've been doing a variation of the long interval (5 mins on / 5 mins off) for some time. It's easy to fit in when you don't have the time for a full bouldering session and as it's low intensity I find it ok to do on a "rest" day.
I like to start the day with a 30 minute session of low intensity, continous hangs on either an edge or half crimping a pull up bar. Typically 7 seconds on, 3 off. I mix in some pull ups, scapular retraction and stretches. Sometimes I work up a little bit more of a pump and take a minute rest to make coffee or whatever. I wouldn't say the first and last minute feel the same. Would you recommend a lower intensity throughout rather than this mix?
The metabolic context you describe is of course one of the most important in training power endurance. But why do you afterwards only recommend a climbing interval training for this? Interval climbing is highly related to coordination and technique aspects, too. If you just want to focus on metabolic factors, repeaters on a fingerboard for me seem the best way to train, regardless of the SAID principle. Concerning your statement that most of the climbers try to make their "anaerobic tank" bigger, I don't think so. Training your glycolytic system is the most uncomfortable type of training and when you go into a gym the climbers either avoid this state in their forearms (boulder) or make way too long breaks after they got pumped forearms (lead).
I love Lattice's videos but I feel like they are hard to apply to my programming sometimes because of how much you guys prioritize periodization. I'm a weekend warrior who climbs outside year round without many major goals/trips. I have no use for a "peak" phase, so I really can't use any of yall's programming, because I don't want to deteriorate my current performance for a long period just to perform better for a short period.
Hey ! I've trained for years on a periodization schedule. It didn't suit me anymore, so i've tried a new approach for a year. It's definitely working as well, if not better. If interested i can share my training plan with you.
I dont, so. I've trained for about 5years on periodization plans. It got me better at a lot of things that are usually tested in climbing training, such as core, pulling strength, and so on. However, if my climbing level also progressed, the progression wasn't so spectacular, or not at a completely similar level. I also got bored with it, and i came to realize that such training plans also isolated me socially, as i wasn't sharing that much time, even in the gym (i have the keys and could go whenever i wanted, and oftenly defered to go train on a wall alone at a time that i felt was optimal), with other climbers. I campused alone on my campusboard, i fingerboarded alone, etc. I also eventually accepted that my purely physical level was clearly above what i climbed, so i needed to do something different. The overall approach was to set goals in order of importance : 1)Outdoor climbing is the goal. If there is a way to do this during the week, it takes priority over the rest. Because i love being outdoors. 2)i need to climb 3 times per week. Climbing is climbing, outdoors or indoor, routes, boulders, training wall, whatever. Because i love climbing. 3)At least one of those sessions needs to be done with people i know and that i will have a good one with. because i love sharing climbing. 4)i should have one strength oriented session, one power endurance oriented session, and one volume session. Because i love climbing hard, boulders or routes. That's it. It's been about 6 months and i've managed to overall achieve the 4 goals each week, even being a dedicated father and husband, and also teaching a climbing course, so it is very doable. What my strength session look like : i built a small (3.3m*1.7m) wall with homemade wooden holds in my garage, and i set boulders on that. I try hard for about 2hours. Bonus, i can invite friends to come around and play with it, setting different boulders. i can also do that in the local gym where another wall is available. I can also do this by trying hard routes, indoor or outdoor. The goal is to get your ass kicked a lot, but also manage to do moves that you weren't able to do. Power endurance session : get pumped, hard, at least 3-5 times during the session. Fight against the pump as much as you can. Best done on routes, but doable on a wall by piling boulders. Volume session : climb a lot. 3 hours is a minimum. Boring on a wall, so i prefer doing that on routes (6 routes in 3h, with a peak at onsight level +one or 2 grades) or in a commercial bouldering gym, in which i attempt boulders that are challenging for about 3/5 tries during 3 or 4 hours. Now here's the last key : climbing outdoors is awalys the priority, and can replace any training session. Any. If you know in advance that you'll be climbing, and you have an idea of what you'll be climbing, then you can decide which training session will be replaced (the most similar one usually). Now, if you know that you'll be climbing on saturday, do you want to skip a training session or lower something ? Skipping, no, unless you feel utterly fatigued and you're on a sending mission on a long term project. Dont skip sessions. Your goal is to climb ! But you can be tactical about it. Let's say on saturday, you'll go climb on a nearby crag where you don't have any ongoing project. The routes vary between 20 to 30m, quite pumpy. Well there you go, you can have a strength training session thursday or even friday, and not hinder so much this outside day that will be labelled as "power endurance training". Actually, it's more "super climbing day outside", and also ticks the box "getting pumped during the week". Currently my climbing level is back where it was before covid, as i struggled finding motivation after the lockdowns, and moving in a new area. i climb in 8a/8a+ routes and 7B+/7C boulders, at my max level. What i've noticed so far : -way more fun to train this way. -i didn't missed any outdoor opportunity due to fatigue, or organization difficulty (ha, i would love going climbing to this crag with those friends on friday, but it's power endurance week and i've already trained monday an wednesday and i feel destroyed) -i got better at, actually, climbing, and not training (i did again 7b onsight, i did my first 7b+ flash, yes i know i suck at flashing or onsighting routes, i did a 7B boulder, flash...) -i can climb more, especially on long days, and still climb with quality. 3 good tries in a long and hard route is now the norm for me, even 4 sometimes. And the last try isn't "just for fun", it's a real one ! @@Kamiru96
@@Ptitviaud1337 It seems we share similar goals that prioritize days outside. My approach was very similar to yours with adjusting training to make the best out of days outside, and it did not mean skipping sessions either - my hardest sent was day after max finger&pulling strength session with the only intervention being I've cut the number of sets in half (the crux of the route was fingery and dynamic). I usually try to focus on certain qualities over 4-6 weeks instead of mixing them in one week but I guess it's just preference. In my case, increasing the volume of climbing, inside and outside, really helped my route performance, because it forced me to develop aerobically more than I used to. I've recently read a book called "the science of climbing training" and it helped me understand our energy systems and how different intensities play a role -- I'm mentioning that because you've mentioned getting pumped several times in a session 😁 whereas the author suggests that getting totally pumped is not beneficial if you plan to continue climbing this session - training to flush out the pump is important, just getting too pumped is to be avoided if you plan to continue climbing. The first pillar of endurance training is increasing forearm blood flow and this is done via low-intensity high volume training (I guess your volume sessions cover that for the most part).
How many sets of the 1 on 1 off training do you reckon is a good amount for an endurance session? I did a session with 3 sets with 15 minutes of rest in between. Is that enough time on the wall?
1:58 glycolytic can be anaerobic (lactic, produces 2ATP/glucose) *OR* aerobic (produces 38ATP/glucose). You are presenting glycolytic as only anaerobic lactic, which is wrong.
It's not important for the instruction. They are already going one step deeper than the traditional analogy, which is that aerobic and anaerobic are two unrelated disjoint systems. Science education has always had analogies that conceal part of the complexity.
@@geometerfpv2804 Yes it is, because it's clearly wrong, and people listen to that. Same for carbohydrate: they do not exist, those are actually aldoses, cetoses, oses, polyalcools, polyoses if polymerized. Alcool is correct, hydrate is not. Event though it's confusing, I admit, because alcool in everyday life is understood as ethanol, not alcool in chemistry, a class of molecules. Same of kcal, I often read the simplification of removing kilo, so we end up hearing taht we need 2000cal per day, instead of 2000kcal. People going to space are killed for smaller mistakes than that.
Great session templates but what i would like to know is how to modify them. For example 1 on 1 off on 40-50degree spray wall would be too intense for intermediate climber even on jugs to recover in 1min. How would you change this workout and will this be explained in the guide?
You would need to change the angle of wall, or hold size used in order to evoke the correct stimulus. As long as you focus on the correct 'feeling', you can't go too far wrong.
Can i train both of this system in one session or should i split them? So for example i would do boulder triples (6sets, 3reps, 1min between reps, 3 between sets) and then i would do 1min on 1min off on the same session. Does it make sense or should I split them?
I am very curious about this as a beginner/intermediate climber, I have been climbing just over 2 years and consistently climb around a 7a-7a+ range yet that has almost all been bouldering. I understand endurance training is only one very important component of climbing and others like technique and power are often treated as being just as important in most training programs, but after thinking about it would it not be better for newer climbers to put far more focus on endurance in the beginning? If you can climb for longer with good intensity and keeping your power then you will just have more time on the wall which as a by product will allow you to learn far more technique in each session and also allow you to use your power for far longer making both of those training sessions provide so much more. If I am managing to recover from these endurance sessions well enough is there any reason I shouldn't train more endurance than the others?
Yeah, this is a very good observation! For someone who has just started climbing, endurance would be a great place to start. As you suggest, by nature of the training you spend a lot of time on the wall, and this is therefore great for developing movement fundamentals. Furthermore, the psychological benefit of knowing you can stay on the wall for a sustained period when you have just started would also be advantageous. I guess the reason that it can be a hard place to start, is because it can be hard to get the intensity right, as you have less of a margin to operate within.
Two-three hours for three times a week is more than enough to fit an endurance session a week (it usually lasts around thirty minutes). My suggestion would be to do that first, and then technique (e.g. Coordination and no hands slab). You can also do strength training in that session if you want.
@@AllegraClimbingPsychologist Thanks for the answer! Also wouldn't strength training cancel out the effect of endurance session? For example: I have 2 hours for my training, firstly I warm up, then I do a thirty minute set of endurance, what's then? Should I repeat it 2-3 times maybe?
Structure would be: strength, then endurance, (then mobility.) really good opportunity to do skills training in the endurance phase (if doing the ARCing)
@@carolinerhot3283 I would suggest you that you do your endurance on a very well rested day, then, in the same session, you do technique training on the wall and maybe some physical training (not relying on pulling). Then 24/48h rest and you can do a intense bouldering session and third day free play 🙌
Is this a suitable way to train forearm endurance without causing nerve/overuse/rsi type symptoms? Anything longer than short boulders or easy routes really aggravates for me and i end up with "claw hands".
It's not really possible to do a 20min circuit at the bouldering centers I've been to. My local one has two circuit boards, some times there are people monopolising them doing 10min circuits, and it's really anti-social to other people that want to use them. Circuit boards also tend to be quite steep, I personally would struggle to do 5min let alone 20min on them. That means I would need to find easier routes on a less steep wall, and just climb up and around on them, keeping other people off them. Basically, the theory sounds solid, but doing this in practice would be unfriendly to other people using the center!
Your logic implies that training in the the training center, makes it unfriendly to other people who come there to train. Circuit training is a pretty normal thing to do. If someone has a problem with that, he prolly doesn't know much about climbing.
In most instances, you would just be completing one of these exercises per session, but as your energy systems develop, you may be looking to complete a higher volume of a given exercise.
@@LatticeTraining If I have only 3 sessions a week, do you recommend a 1 hr session like this : Warming (20-30 min), Interval training (20 min), "easy climbing"/stretching (20 min). Or I can put something like strengthening exercices before interval training ? Let's say, I am regular climber (V7 bouldering and 7a+ route climbing (french cotation))
Can you not run an interval session where you rest on the wall, i feel like sitting off the wall is time wasted. I can normally get to 90%-100% recovered downclimbing some of the easier routes plus I learn alot about resting tecnique and exacly how the route I just climbed fatigued me.
Yeah for sure! We only covered a small fraction of the sessions we like to use, for simplicity. A session we like for this is called 1ON 1OFF Active. Where the 1 "Off" is spent on the wall in a resting position. As you say, this also builds the skill and tactics. Another options is variable intensity aerobic work e.g. alternating between moderate and low intensity climbing. Though this becomes harder for less experienced climbers to judge the intensity correctly.
Generally, limitations of our aerobic capacity in the forearms is mitochondrial density and efficiency as well as capillarization and blood occlusion from muscle fiber contraction, which won't be effected in any way by any other aerobic activity. However, this assumes there are not other concerns of poor cardiorespiratory fitness, but for almost all climbers the limiting factor is in the forearms.
If you feel like you could stay on the wall for a significant amount of time beyond the minute interval, then the intensity would be too easy. You would probably be looking for an intensity whereby if necessary, you could easily stay on the wall for another few minutes.
I have a question not related to the video really - but would you say that edge lifts (pull weight from the floor with a grip tool) is just as good as hangboarding for finger strength?
It's a bit different. The grip tool mostly trains pinching and from my experience the grip tool emphazises the training of the extensor carpi radialis longis and brevis while the hangboard emphazises the training of the brachioradialis more. I might be totally wrong, that's just how it feels. In the end they are different exercises that both train the forearm but also have different applications. I'd recommend doing a bit of both
Also completely forgot: when hanging you train with more weight most of the time. Unless you put your feet down to go to like 70-80% you'll probably train at 100% bodyweight. And that of course will make a difference in some way
By nature, all should average out as sitting below your critical force level. That said, the shorter interval work will push you closer to that critical force line, bearing in mind that the shorter intervals are higher in intensity and therefore more anaerobic. When ARCing, you will be sitting well below your critical force level if doing the session correctly!
Try not to get too focussed on grades. You will better understand how to train this system if you focus on feeling, and the level of pump suggested in the video. Grades can vary massively when it comes to indoor walls!
Does training of the aerobic system have to be specific to the forearms / climbing-endurance relevant muscles? Or do things like endurance running also help general aerobic rate of recovery?
There is little evidence that non specific training improve anything for climbing endurance, except for psychological aspects (fighting against fatigue).
Because climbing endurance is very focussed on forearm performance, which is quite a small group of muscles, cardiovascular activities such as running do not have a correlation with climbing performance. However, when you consider training for big days out, or more full body 3d climbing where blood needs to be delivered to both more and bigger muscles, then cardiovascular fitness will begin to have more of a correlation.
isnt the first system the atp system, which then will be reactivated through creatine? or did you mean that and in english its just called the way you called it?
Then you should probably default to "just climb" and learn general techniques. Being able to execute moves efficiently is a big part of the game 👍 And specifically targeting energy systems is probably not yet relevant for beginners.
@@audiojck1 quite a useless comment. i have climbed v5 outdoor in bleau, even did a v8 dyno. i dont think you should call this beginner. still, i also think climbing with 100kg is still taxing on a very easy climb. hard on the feet on slabs, and tiring even on easy overhangs (5°) for the upper body and arms. i dont think its possible to do this for 20 mins straight on like recommend in the video. so what to do, any usefull ideas? maybe im wrong, put on some weight and prove it to me. or maybe is has to do with my asthma, but i dont realy feel this while bouldering.
@@TheValinov then I am sorry I was assuming you were a beginner. My bad. Somehow I got the vibe by reading your comment I would just go for jug ladders then. I did some ARCing on a close by childs climbing wall that was mainly ununsed by children. Just spent half an hour doing laps on jugs and deciding to make it more challenging by skipping holds etc. There's definitely some climbs you should be able to do for 20 minutes if you can climb that hard.
No. You should dedicate the challenging part of the session to this. You can climb in addition to this (i would advise beginning by the training part), at a not so challenging level. You should also end the cycle at some point.
When ARCing, why not climb at pump level for 20 minutes? Only because of the fatigue factor? It should build more aerobic capacity due to requiring more energy, thus providing a bigger stimuli
This is a good question. First, let's establish the concept of aerobic capacity-the maximum energy production by the aerobic system, which relies on oxygen, glucose, and fatty acids to generate ATP without producing lactic acid, unlike anaerobic glycolysis. Engaging in pump-level climbing for 20 minutes triggers the anaerobic glycolytic system, marked by a noticeable accumulation of lactate and other byproducts. However, this environment is suboptimal for enhancing aerobic capacity. ARCing, on the other hand, is specifically designed for low-intensity, high-volume training just below the aerobic threshold, akin to running in Zone 2. The objective of ARCing is to induce physiological adaptations, including increased mitochondrial density, improved capillarization, enhanced fat metabolism, and heightened aerobic enzyme activity. These adaptations contribute significantly to aerobic capacity development. Opting for pump-level climbing would divert the focus away from the intended aerobic adaptations, as the anaerobic glycolytic system predominates in such conditions. In summary, while pump-level climbing may seem to demand more energy, it shifts the metabolic pathways away from the aerobic system and hinders the targeted physiological improvements associated with ARCing. The essence of ARCing lies in its strategic approach to building a robust aerobic foundation for endurance. Does this make sense? And hope it helps
I've never witnessed a significative effect of ARCing in a climber. I've done it myself for a whole cycle, and i didn't notice anything afterward. I get the feeling that time is better spent by climbing "easy" routes or boulders, in volume, rather than freely moving on a wall : -you still learn movements, even on easy problems -if you take little to no rest between them, you will still be in the same energy system -it's way, way, way more interesting -you will develop better tactics like : oh, this hold on this V2 isn't so good, and my goal is NOT to get pumped, so i need to make a decision, rather than take a bad hold on the wall and simply go onto another jug available.
ARCing definitely has a place and time, and there are different ways to work on it, however, we wouldn't rule it out if you are looking to improve your rest and fitness on a long wall. One good example you mentioned was how you can go do super easy circuits and actually stay on the wall for long periods, learning to rest and feeling different holds. You can also use a fingerboard or even do movements with your feet on the floor.
$215... That's just too much. There are books available with the same amount of content for less than $30. So the extra $185 is to have someone read to you?
Hey Matthew, I'll list a few key features here that we think makes this much more valuable than a training book: 1. Interactive learning experience - it includes quizzes to test your learning 2. Lifetime access, where we will update sections as the knowledge and science progresses (it won't do out-of-date) 3. We have practical sections from V17 and f9b climbers explaining how their training works 4. It is a collection of experience from many elite level coaches and climbers, all with individual expertise to offer. 5. A high production value of video editing and on-screen graphic/illustrations offer something a book cannot. 6. This course give you the power to write your own plan and be self-coached. It's priced so that is costs less than or simialr to many training plans on the market, that may only last for one training cycle.
Sorry, but dumbing it down to two energy systems reflects a low level of knowledge about how the body works. There are way more limiting factors dictating a climbers performance than just energy systems. Biomechanical, nervous, ion, and vascular factors are just as important, and the importance of each factor is different in each individual. There are also genetic factors that determine the phenotype for each protein and cellular component in each system. There are many ways to train and no correct answer. Trainings need to be tailored individuals' weaknesses. Absoloutely no size fits all.
You are very correct that many other factors will effect performance, you seem very knowledgeable on the subject. We don't feel this video is the right place for this type of discussion and in fact it would remove some value and "digestibility" to most of our audience. The dumbing down reflects it is a 9 minute RUclips video that is presented to an audience of thousands, often with just the base knowledge of biology and sport science. See this as a brief overview of some of the key factors that can empower some actionable training methods.
What do you mean never reach anaerobic system? As in, they never use the anaerobic energy system? Our research suggests most climbers with be using anaerobic glycolysis after just 30-40% of their maximum voluntary contraction. This low level of force threshold makes it a challenge for many climbers to not rely heavily on anaerobic systems when climbing.
Your channel has grown quite substantially, you could now focus on selling supplements that increase aerobic energy production and general power output to your viewers.
I don't actually understand how this relates to other activities to improve climbing strength like hangboarding. Is this supposed to be complementary or a substitute? If complementary, I'd appreciate any guides on how to implement the described routines in my own training habit. Otherwise, great video!
Lattice covered how to train different systems and skills in one session comprehensively in their video about progressing past the V5 plateau. In it, Josh explored how to do strength, endurance, skills and flexibility and how to progress through each one to do it effectively. Check it out… but also make it fit your own schedule! Josh’s session must’ve been massive that day!
![How to Stop Pumping Out on Boulders [Endurance Training Guide 2024]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tK5VNaRJ60c/mqdefault.jpg)
Training until failure from pump is useful for training pain tolerance and adapt your nervous system into recognizing what is a real "emergency" situation. Our brain is wired so that it protects our body from damage and will send pain signals for us to stop. This is a response that can be trained, we literally teach our brain that the situation is not a threat. If you managed to improve your endurance a lot by climbing very pumped, it's most likely that you trained your mental fortitude rather than you forearms endurance 🔥
This is very true. I setup some mock gear placement on my wall and I notice that the distraction of to place gear suppresses the pain signals and I can stay on longer (and learn that even if I feel ready to let go, I’ve got quite a bit more left if needed). I must have extended my ‘stay on wall’ states by 15% just by pain tolerance/distraction
Yeah totally agree. That and learning to move well/focus when extremely pumped. I mentioned this in another comment but in many cases we save this sort of training for 6-8 weeks out from a trip/comp to periodise base training and performance. Endurance sports do this very commonly (polarisation), only training "race pace" in the lead up to a performance.
calling arnolds beloved pump pain.... im sure he arnie is moaning about the youths nowadays
This comment is exactly what I was looking for. I feel that, many times, when I'm climbing a route I feel like I'm too pump to go on and often I ask "Take!!!". Then I re Start almost immediately and I'm able to "send". I feel very frustrated because I start to think that this is not an issue of real endurance, but my brain, when the pump start to FEEL real, goes in "fly mode". I'm not trained to recognize a REAL emergency, like you are saying. I think that lately I lost most of my OS attemps due to this.
@@francescabonvini4382It's worth training to see how far you can take that feeling while you're bouldering around near the floor - you should try to find a way of motivating yourself to get past the pain. It was such a win for me to get over the 'OMG I'm going to fall while clipping' effect
I believe the main benefit of training for the pump failure that is not talk about is that it is mainly good for knowing when you are "truly" about to fail, so when you are pumped on a route, you can keep calm knowing that even if you REALLY pumped, your tank isn't quite empty. Making you push for those extra key moves.
I call it the "courage energy system". Being about to resist psychological distress the closer you get from having depleted all resources.
The "courage energy system", I like it. We think this is best saved for certain times in a training plan. The big mistake people make is ONLY training like this. At 4-8 weeks out from a climbing trip is when training the "courage energy system" really comes into play. This is similar to practicing "race pace" in running or cycling. But it's much less common in off-season.
@@LatticeTrainingAgreed!
0:25 Absolutely correct. Thumbs up.
The general rule is to know the performance determinants in a sport, identify an individual's most performance-limiting deficits among these determinants, and implement a training strategy that most effectively addresses these specific deficits. The derived regime could look and feel completely different from the sport one is training for.
A "copy-how-you-compete" approach works and has its own, in a different way specific justification, but often it results in mixed effects, which are usually less effective than polarized concepts (exceptions exist).
How about this idea, we take the first exercise and modify it. We find a wall where we have a route that can provide us with the 1 min of high intensity climbing and also on the same wall there would be an easy route that we can climb comfortably with our aerobics system. We then climb one minute high intensity, without getting of the wall, climb 2 min low intensity and repeat for a few reps. This targets the specific adaptation of being able to recover one energy system while utilizing a different energy system
One thing I don't understand... As an analogy to running, I can train two aerobic factors: 1) speed I can sustain, and 2) distance I can sustain it for. Typically the first through intervals, and the second through volume.
The exercise you proscribe seems to build volume, but not a sustained intensity. When should we be working in a more interval-type training for climbing endurance? How should it be programmed along with a low intensity volume workout?
I remember watching this the first time. I didnt understand all of it, but the second time around something clicked and it made so much sense and gave me a lot of new impulses to think about my training differently. Thanks a lot!
Wow. Love it.
The biggest leap I ever had in endurance in forearm capacity was after a month doing multipitch in the French alps, Chamonix area.
Guess it was long (25 minutes on a pitch at a time), trad so within reasonable intensity (6a and below), and slow placing gear, and at altitude.
Never really explained why until now. Bet the combination of moderate intensity, long duration AND altitude is good.
I mean, you shpuldnt get pumped much at 6a if you have been climbing for more than 6 months. But anyway, good trip you had
Also, the altitude is never good for anything that involves the human body 😅
@@0xf7c8
Honestly, that's total bullshit.
The idea that 5.10- is "never pump" territory is just wrong, especially trad where you have to hang out and place gear.
Let alone at altitude.
And these are outdoor grades on classic test pieces that set the grade. Not soft gym grades set up to flatter clients.
That is a really good definition of specificity.
Would long-duration assisted hangs on a bar or jug rung be a viable alternative to continuous on-the-wall climbing? Obviously it'd be incredibly boring (and less specific), but spending 5-20 minutes on the wall in a gym isn't going to be viable for a lot of people.
e: tried this out today, kinda blows. For me at least the amount of weight I can support for 5+ minutes is about 1/3rd of body weight so I need am inconvenient amount of assistance to make it work at all. That said, while I was hanging out I had a better idea: farmers carries with dumbbells.
Basically, pick a heavy weight you can hold for a few minutes and lighter weight you can hold forever. Hold one weight in each hand and walk around until your forearm on the heavy side starts to feel a bit pumped. Once you hit that point swap the weights between your hands so the pumped side can recover with the lighter weight while still doing a bit of work. If you choose your weights right you should eventually settle down into a steady rhythm with each side carrying the heavier weight for about the same time. Rinse and repeat until you hit time.
It's still pretty boring, but being able to walk around helps a lot.
Not really no. If you can try to reach a gym with routes (where you could more easily climb routes back to back maybe), or stick to 1 on / 1 off
Hmmmm. What is your evidence for this?
@@BrettRobertPierce That hanging on a bar is not an effective way of reproducing you moving on a wall as a way of training ARC for forearms ? It's the same as usual : the less specific the training is, the less effective it is. Hanging on a bar will get you better at hanging on a bar. That might come handy in your projects if it involves hanging on jugs, but that's it. The key to training is transfer into climbing (unless you're having fun training the thing in itself which is totally fine), and i think that the amount of transfer from hanging onto a bar or jugs is near 0.
@@Ptitviaud1337 I'm not sure specificity is as critical for the aerobic adaptations that ARCing is supposed to stimulate. For strength training specificity is king because the neurological recruitment improvements you get from strength training are only going to be transferrable if the exercise being trained has some resemblance to the sport. For energy system training the adaptations are local to the muscle itself. I figure that as long as you're making the target muscle work at the right intensity you should get a similar stimulus for aerobic efficency improvements regardless of the activity. I'm no sports scientist though and I could be convinced otherwise 🤷♂
you are, overall, right, but specificity is always king to performance, even in energy systems. The evidence supporting this is empirical : you can train people on a very simplified version of anything, and they'll get better. At doing this simplified version. The question is then how much can they transfer into the actual goal ?
For example, when Josh in the video climbs on the wall for the 20min version (and it's in line with what i've seen people do when doing this type of training), you can clearly see that he is in cruise mode. Doesn't think too much about placement. Defers to certain holds, or, as shown in the video, hangs off his right hand 3 times in a row (prefered clipping hand ?). My point is that even on a wall, cruising around is starting NOT to be climbing.
Now, of course, that wasn't your point : would you still benefit from, a physiological point of view. Yes. BUT, and it's a big but (aha) : was is the best use of your time ? That's, truly, the kye point in training, especially for amateurs. Dedicating 20min to ARCing is very doable in a 30hours/week profesionnal training plan. In a 6hours training plan, 20min is 5% of the total. Now, what if you dedicated 5% of your time to :
-stretching ?
-working on drop knees, that you suck at ?
-doing some pull-ups
etc.
And last, but not least : how do you know that you lack super long endurance ?@@oohall
INVALUABLE. Thanks for bringing this easily digestible and highly accessible evidence-based approach to developing my own training sessions.
What are the advantages of each training method (short interval, long interval, continuous)? and should you shake out during the endurance training?
Generally, small shakes which feel natural are fine, but if you are having to stop on a massive hold and shake out, you have probably got the intensity wrong. You are not on a redpoint! These different methods should be used with consideration towards your personal physical profile and goals. If you are a sport climber aiming to climb long pitches in Spain, then establishing a solid base through long continuous sessions would be more important than for a boulderer training for shorter more intense efforts (where 1 on 1 off might be more appropriate).
Hi! Super interesting video as always. I have a question: I've read your article about capillarisation and you say "In periods of training focused on capillarisation, high intensity training should be limited/tightly controlled due to release of anti-angiogenic factors when this form of training is completed.". Does this mean that I can't do strenght training while I increasing capillarisation or that I can't do them on the same day?
I found the diagram with the energy tank very useful. Please correct me if I'm wrong: we don't want to climb until failure, because that would mean 'emptying the tank'. Instead, when training the aerobic system, we want to train 'filling the tank' and doing this requires us to do a lot of volume.
Is the idea that going until failure is 'bad' because this will prevent us from doing more volume, when volume is the effective training stimulus we are after?
Going to failure isn't always bad - later in the training season once a base has been established it is good! But when you are aiming to establish a base, we don't want to be doing this.
For example, if you started a 1 on 1 off session at an intensity that was significantly beyond what you should be training at, and failed 20 seconds into each set because your tank was empty, the volume of training completed in that session would have been significantly reduced.
@@LatticeTraining Thanks!
So… follow up question to this: it was mentioned that in a continuous climbing scenario, it should be done for 20-30 minutes at low intensity, and that “the last minute should feel like the first.” What would be wrong with getting to the point of pump in the first 20% of the session and then tapering the climbing grade down to be able to keep that pump for the full session, even to the point where your pealing off 5.9 holds at the end?
It sounds like you are saying volume is the only criteria for endurance, so why not do volume with a painful pump? Wouldn’t that be better?
For context, I only have 3 days a week 90-120min sessions to train at the gym, and I have to fit my weight training in that time as well.
As a boulderer, 20 continuous minutes on the wall seems very hard
2 minutes, that's all I can give lol.
Although it may seem very hard, the long volume on the wall should be done in low intensity, where you are not feeling pumped. If you don't have a circuit or autobelay you can do this at, then putting feet on the floor at an angle with enough intensity can work too.
Hope this helps
Lattice calmly dropping bangers like these, almost daily now.
You mention that fatigue is caused by the accumulation of byproducts.
I was interested in understanding what exactly cause fatigue, since it could shed a light on how to train and it is also interesting in itself, and what I found was that :
- Lactacte is not the cause of muscular fatigue.
There is a correlation (fatigue occur and there is a lactate accumulation at the same time) but no causation. Rather, exercising produces fatigue and lactic acid as well but the latter does not produce the former. (Brooks et Fahey, 1984, Brooks, 2000)
- Other leads were not conclusive as well. For instance, the accumulation of protons (H+) due to ATP hydrolysis would not explain fatigue either. It was a model with in vitro backing but it does not work in vivo (Dobson et coll., 1986 and Sahlin et Ren, 1989 ; Arnold et coll., 1994)
So... The conclusion I reached was that nobody currently knows how fatigue occur.
Do you have an opinion on this and sources that I could read ?
Thanks !
Muscle fatigue has two contributing components; central and peripheral. Its exact physiology is a phenomenon involving an interaction between the two, and neither are 100% fully understood.
Peripheral fatigue is better understood out of the two. In short it is a combination of an accumulation of anaerobic byproducts, a decrease in high energy phosphate groups and a decrease in glycogen levels.
Central fatigue is less well understood. The best explanation uses the ‘Serotonin-Fatigue Hypothesis’ which explores serotonin levels during exercise.
So while we can help improve fatigue resistance with things like better sleep, nutrition, mental space, this video focuses on the development of the aerobic energy system which helps with peripheral fatigue
@@LatticeTraining Thank you for those details, it's very interesting !
@@thomaschambon4654 As far as the byproduct hypotheses go, try looking up “Inorganic Phosphate effect on fatigue”. There seems to be some evidence indicating it can have a disruptive effect at different levels in the muscular system and the ability to generate force during contraction.
I've been doing a variation of the long interval (5 mins on / 5 mins off) for some time. It's easy to fit in when you don't have the time for a full bouldering session and as it's low intensity I find it ok to do on a "rest" day.
Definitely something worth doing, but keep listening to your body as sometimes rest days are needed and we do not realise it.
I like to start the day with a 30 minute session of low intensity, continous hangs on either an edge or half crimping a pull up bar. Typically 7 seconds on, 3 off. I mix in some pull ups, scapular retraction and stretches. Sometimes I work up a little bit more of a pump and take a minute rest to make coffee or whatever. I wouldn't say the first and last minute feel the same. Would you recommend a lower intensity throughout rather than this mix?
No this seems like a low enough intensity, judging the intensity by your level of pump is a great way to go about it
The metabolic context you describe is of course one of the most important in training power endurance. But why do you afterwards only recommend a climbing interval training for this? Interval climbing is highly related to coordination and technique aspects, too. If you just want to focus on metabolic factors, repeaters on a fingerboard for me seem the best way to train, regardless of the SAID principle. Concerning your statement that most of the climbers try to make their "anaerobic tank" bigger, I don't think so. Training your glycolytic system is the most uncomfortable type of training and when you go into a gym the climbers either avoid this state in their forearms (boulder) or make way too long breaks after they got pumped forearms (lead).
I love Lattice's videos but I feel like they are hard to apply to my programming sometimes because of how much you guys prioritize periodization. I'm a weekend warrior who climbs outside year round without many major goals/trips. I have no use for a "peak" phase, so I really can't use any of yall's programming, because I don't want to deteriorate my current performance for a long period just to perform better for a short period.
Hey ! I've trained for years on a periodization schedule. It didn't suit me anymore, so i've tried a new approach for a year. It's definitely working as well, if not better. If interested i can share my training plan with you.
@@Ptitviaud1337 Do you mind sharing that as a comment? In my case I was just lowering volume of my training sessions to accommodate days outside
I dont, so. I've trained for about 5years on periodization plans. It got me better at a lot of things that are usually tested in climbing training, such as core, pulling strength, and so on. However, if my climbing level also progressed, the progression wasn't so spectacular, or not at a completely similar level. I also got bored with it, and i came to realize that such training plans also isolated me socially, as i wasn't sharing that much time, even in the gym (i have the keys and could go whenever i wanted, and oftenly defered to go train on a wall alone at a time that i felt was optimal), with other climbers. I campused alone on my campusboard, i fingerboarded alone, etc.
I also eventually accepted that my purely physical level was clearly above what i climbed, so i needed to do something different. The overall approach was to set goals in order of importance :
1)Outdoor climbing is the goal. If there is a way to do this during the week, it takes priority over the rest. Because i love being outdoors.
2)i need to climb 3 times per week. Climbing is climbing, outdoors or indoor, routes, boulders, training wall, whatever. Because i love climbing.
3)At least one of those sessions needs to be done with people i know and that i will have a good one with. because i love sharing climbing.
4)i should have one strength oriented session, one power endurance oriented session, and one volume session. Because i love climbing hard, boulders or routes.
That's it. It's been about 6 months and i've managed to overall achieve the 4 goals each week, even being a dedicated father and husband, and also teaching a climbing course, so it is very doable.
What my strength session look like : i built a small (3.3m*1.7m) wall with homemade wooden holds in my garage, and i set boulders on that. I try hard for about 2hours. Bonus, i can invite friends to come around and play with it, setting different boulders. i can also do that in the local gym where another wall is available. I can also do this by trying hard routes, indoor or outdoor. The goal is to get your ass kicked a lot, but also manage to do moves that you weren't able to do.
Power endurance session : get pumped, hard, at least 3-5 times during the session. Fight against the pump as much as you can. Best done on routes, but doable on a wall by piling boulders.
Volume session : climb a lot. 3 hours is a minimum. Boring on a wall, so i prefer doing that on routes (6 routes in 3h, with a peak at onsight level +one or 2 grades) or in a commercial bouldering gym, in which i attempt boulders that are challenging for about 3/5 tries during 3 or 4 hours.
Now here's the last key : climbing outdoors is awalys the priority, and can replace any training session. Any. If you know in advance that you'll be climbing, and you have an idea of what you'll be climbing, then you can decide which training session will be replaced (the most similar one usually). Now, if you know that you'll be climbing on saturday, do you want to skip a training session or lower something ?
Skipping, no, unless you feel utterly fatigued and you're on a sending mission on a long term project. Dont skip sessions. Your goal is to climb ! But you can be tactical about it. Let's say on saturday, you'll go climb on a nearby crag where you don't have any ongoing project. The routes vary between 20 to 30m, quite pumpy. Well there you go, you can have a strength training session thursday or even friday, and not hinder so much this outside day that will be labelled as "power endurance training". Actually, it's more "super climbing day outside", and also ticks the box "getting pumped during the week".
Currently my climbing level is back where it was before covid, as i struggled finding motivation after the lockdowns, and moving in a new area. i climb in 8a/8a+ routes and 7B+/7C boulders, at my max level.
What i've noticed so far :
-way more fun to train this way.
-i didn't missed any outdoor opportunity due to fatigue, or organization difficulty (ha, i would love going climbing to this crag with those friends on friday, but it's power endurance week and i've already trained monday an wednesday and i feel destroyed)
-i got better at, actually, climbing, and not training (i did again 7b onsight, i did my first 7b+ flash, yes i know i suck at flashing or onsighting routes, i did a 7B boulder, flash...)
-i can climb more, especially on long days, and still climb with quality. 3 good tries in a long and hard route is now the norm for me, even 4 sometimes. And the last try isn't "just for fun", it's a real one !
@@Kamiru96
@@Ptitviaud1337 It seems we share similar goals that prioritize days outside. My approach was very similar to yours with adjusting training to make the best out of days outside, and it did not mean skipping sessions either - my hardest sent was day after max finger&pulling strength session with the only intervention being I've cut the number of sets in half (the crux of the route was fingery and dynamic).
I usually try to focus on certain qualities over 4-6 weeks instead of mixing them in one week but I guess it's just preference.
In my case, increasing the volume of climbing, inside and outside, really helped my route performance, because it forced me to develop aerobically more than I used to.
I've recently read a book called "the science of climbing training" and it helped me understand our energy systems and how different intensities play a role -- I'm mentioning that because you've mentioned getting pumped several times in a session 😁 whereas the author suggests that getting totally pumped is not beneficial if you plan to continue climbing this session - training to flush out the pump is important, just getting too pumped is to be avoided if you plan to continue climbing. The first pillar of endurance training is increasing forearm blood flow and this is done via low-intensity high volume training (I guess your volume sessions cover that for the most part).
@@Ptitviaud1337thanks for the comment man :)
I wish my local gym was less busy so I could do these. Especially the long interval. Climbing is just too popular now.
for real I'm thinking going outdoors might be the only way ;-;
How many sets of the 1 on 1 off training do you reckon is a good amount for an endurance session? I did a session with 3 sets with 15 minutes of rest in between. Is that enough time on the wall?
1:58 glycolytic can be anaerobic (lactic, produces 2ATP/glucose) *OR* aerobic (produces 38ATP/glucose). You are presenting glycolytic as only anaerobic lactic, which is wrong.
It's not important for the instruction. They are already going one step deeper than the traditional analogy, which is that aerobic and anaerobic are two unrelated disjoint systems. Science education has always had analogies that conceal part of the complexity.
@@geometerfpv2804 Yes it is, because it's clearly wrong, and people listen to that.
Same for carbohydrate: they do not exist, those are actually aldoses, cetoses, oses, polyalcools, polyoses if polymerized. Alcool is correct, hydrate is not. Event though it's confusing, I admit, because alcool in everyday life is understood as ethanol, not alcool in chemistry, a class of molecules.
Same of kcal, I often read the simplification of removing kilo, so we end up hearing taht we need 2000cal per day, instead of 2000kcal.
People going to space are killed for smaller mistakes than that.
Great session templates but what i would like to know is how to modify them. For example 1 on 1 off on 40-50degree spray wall would be too intense for intermediate climber even on jugs to recover in 1min. How would you change this workout and will this be explained in the guide?
You would need to change the angle of wall, or hold size used in order to evoke the correct stimulus. As long as you focus on the correct 'feeling', you can't go too far wrong.
Super cadre, par contre une petite épuisette ne serait pas superflu pour éviter de trop manipuler les poissons..
Is this Zone 2 training from the endurance world leaking into climbing?
Can i train both of this system in one session or should i split them? So for example i would do boulder triples (6sets, 3reps, 1min between reps, 3 between sets) and then i would do 1min on 1min off on the same session. Does it make sense or should I split them?
I am very curious about this as a beginner/intermediate climber, I have been climbing just over 2 years and consistently climb around a 7a-7a+ range yet that has almost all been bouldering. I understand endurance training is only one very important component of climbing and others like technique and power are often treated as being just as important in most training programs, but after thinking about it would it not be better for newer climbers to put far more focus on endurance in the beginning? If you can climb for longer with good intensity and keeping your power then you will just have more time on the wall which as a by product will allow you to learn far more technique in each session and also allow you to use your power for far longer making both of those training sessions provide so much more. If I am managing to recover from these endurance sessions well enough is there any reason I shouldn't train more endurance than the others?
Yeah, this is a very good observation! For someone who has just started climbing, endurance would be a great place to start. As you suggest, by nature of the training you spend a lot of time on the wall, and this is therefore great for developing movement fundamentals. Furthermore, the psychological benefit of knowing you can stay on the wall for a sustained period when you have just started would also be advantageous. I guess the reason that it can be a hard place to start, is because it can be hard to get the intensity right, as you have less of a margin to operate within.
All of that is 100% correct, but what if have only 2-3 hours of climbing 2, 3 at most times a week. How should my session look like then?
Two-three hours for three times a week is more than enough to fit an endurance session a week (it usually lasts around thirty minutes). My suggestion would be to do that first, and then technique (e.g. Coordination and no hands slab). You can also do strength training in that session if you want.
@@AllegraClimbingPsychologist Thanks for the answer! Also wouldn't strength training cancel out the effect of endurance session? For example: I have 2 hours for my training, firstly I warm up, then I do a thirty minute set of endurance, what's then? Should I repeat it 2-3 times maybe?
Structure would be: strength, then endurance, (then mobility.) really good opportunity to do skills training in the endurance phase (if doing the ARCing)
@@carolinerhot3283 I would suggest you that you do your endurance on a very well rested day, then, in the same session, you do technique training on the wall and maybe some physical training (not relying on pulling).
Then 24/48h rest and you can do a intense bouldering session and third day free play 🙌
Is this a suitable way to train forearm endurance without causing nerve/overuse/rsi type symptoms? Anything longer than short boulders or easy routes really aggravates for me and i end up with "claw hands".
This training is so light that it shouldnt produce a lot of fatigue, but you still have to reduce other training.
Can short and long intervals be done all in the same session or would it be more beneficial to do them as separate sessions?
It's not really possible to do a 20min circuit at the bouldering centers I've been to. My local one has two circuit boards, some times there are people monopolising them doing 10min circuits, and it's really anti-social to other people that want to use them. Circuit boards also tend to be quite steep, I personally would struggle to do 5min let alone 20min on them. That means I would need to find easier routes on a less steep wall, and just climb up and around on them, keeping other people off them.
Basically, the theory sounds solid, but doing this in practice would be unfriendly to other people using the center!
Your logic implies that training in the the training center, makes it unfriendly to other people who come there to train. Circuit training is a pretty normal thing to do. If someone has a problem with that, he prolly doesn't know much about climbing.
Thank you for the content. How many series of those exercices should we perform during a training session ?
In most instances, you would just be completing one of these exercises per session, but as your energy systems develop, you may be looking to complete a higher volume of a given exercise.
@@LatticeTraining If I have only 3 sessions a week, do you recommend a 1 hr session like this : Warming (20-30 min), Interval training (20 min), "easy climbing"/stretching (20 min). Or I can put something like strengthening exercices before interval training ? Let's say, I am regular climber (V7 bouldering and 7a+ route climbing (french cotation))
Generally speaking it is absolutely fine to do some strength work before aerobic capacity training 👍
@@LatticeTraining thx for your answers
*Climbing on the wall for 20mins*
others: when will this guy get down and let us use it?
Can you not run an interval session where you rest on the wall, i feel like sitting off the wall is time wasted. I can normally get to 90%-100% recovered downclimbing some of the easier routes plus I learn alot about resting tecnique and exacly how the route I just climbed fatigued me.
Yeah for sure! We only covered a small fraction of the sessions we like to use, for simplicity. A session we like for this is called 1ON 1OFF Active. Where the 1 "Off" is spent on the wall in a resting position. As you say, this also builds the skill and tactics. Another options is variable intensity aerobic work e.g. alternating between moderate and low intensity climbing. Though this becomes harder for less experienced climbers to judge the intensity correctly.
Does having a good aerobic system from running affect my climbing aerobic system? Or are those 2 separate?
Generally, limitations of our aerobic capacity in the forearms is mitochondrial density and efficiency as well as capillarization and blood occlusion from muscle fiber contraction, which won't be effected in any way by any other aerobic activity. However, this assumes there are not other concerns of poor cardiorespiratory fitness, but for almost all climbers the limiting factor is in the forearms.
Great video! For 1 on, 1 off, how do we know if the intensity is too low?
If you feel like you could stay on the wall for a significant amount of time beyond the minute interval, then the intensity would be too easy. You would probably be looking for an intensity whereby if necessary, you could easily stay on the wall for another few minutes.
I have a question not related to the video really - but would you say that edge lifts (pull weight from the floor with a grip tool) is just as good as hangboarding for finger strength?
It's a bit different. The grip tool mostly trains pinching and from my experience the grip tool emphazises the training of the extensor carpi radialis longis and brevis while the hangboard emphazises the training of the brachioradialis more. I might be totally wrong, that's just how it feels.
In the end they are different exercises that both train the forearm but also have different applications. I'd recommend doing a bit of both
Also completely forgot: when hanging you train with more weight most of the time. Unless you put your feet down to go to like 70-80% you'll probably train at 100% bodyweight. And that of course will make a difference in some way
Yes absolutely, the only real difference between them is how much the shoulder is involved
Would be interested to know the level of intensity related to critical force for each suggested training type mentioned?🧐😊
By nature, all should average out as sitting below your critical force level. That said, the shorter interval work will push you closer to that critical force line, bearing in mind that the shorter intervals are higher in intensity and therefore more anaerobic. When ARCing, you will be sitting well below your critical force level if doing the session correctly!
how about the intensity of the intervals? how many grades below onsight are you suggesting?
Try not to get too focussed on grades. You will better understand how to train this system if you focus on feeling, and the level of pump suggested in the video. Grades can vary massively when it comes to indoor walls!
Does training of the aerobic system have to be specific to the forearms / climbing-endurance relevant muscles? Or do things like endurance running also help general aerobic rate of recovery?
There is little evidence that non specific training improve anything for climbing endurance, except for psychological aspects (fighting against fatigue).
Because climbing endurance is very focussed on forearm performance, which is quite a small group of muscles, cardiovascular activities such as running do not have a correlation with climbing performance. However, when you consider training for big days out, or more full body 3d climbing where blood needs to be delivered to both more and bigger muscles, then cardiovascular fitness will begin to have more of a correlation.
Shame my local gyms are so busy you could never reliably do these exercises.
isnt the first system the atp system, which then will be reactivated through creatine? or did you mean that and in english its just called the way you called it?
ADP/ATP stands for Adenosine-Di-Phosphate and Adenosine-Tri-Phosphate. So I guess both is ok to use. ADP/ATP is probably the more scientific term.
@@marcodeluca3971thanks, just learned it in school and was not sure anymore and sorry for my laziness not to google it
7:00 but what if i can't even recover fully in that 1 min, on the easiest climb i can find?
Then you should probably default to "just climb" and learn general techniques. Being able to execute moves efficiently is a big part of the game 👍
And specifically targeting energy systems is probably not yet relevant for beginners.
At that level normal climbing is plenty of aerobic and anaerobic stimulus.
@@audiojck1 quite a useless comment. i have climbed v5 outdoor in bleau, even did a v8 dyno. i dont think you should call this beginner. still, i also think climbing with 100kg is still taxing on a very easy climb. hard on the feet on slabs, and tiring even on easy overhangs (5°) for the upper body and arms. i dont think its possible to do this for 20 mins straight on like recommend in the video. so what to do, any usefull ideas?
maybe im wrong, put on some weight and prove it to me.
or maybe is has to do with my asthma, but i dont realy feel this while bouldering.
Listen to your body and adjust the rules...
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@@TheValinov then I am sorry I was assuming you were a beginner. My bad. Somehow I got the vibe by reading your comment
I would just go for jug ladders then. I did some ARCing on a close by childs climbing wall that was mainly ununsed by children. Just spent half an hour doing laps on jugs and deciding to make it more challenging by skipping holds etc. There's definitely some climbs you should be able to do for 20 minutes if you can climb that hard.
Do we do short, medium, and long duration exercises in one session once per week?
No. You should dedicate the challenging part of the session to this. You can climb in addition to this (i would advise beginning by the training part), at a not so challenging level. You should also end the cycle at some point.
When ARCing, why not climb at pump level for 20 minutes? Only because of the fatigue factor? It should build more aerobic capacity due to requiring more energy, thus providing a bigger stimuli
Because if you feel the pump, you're not ARCing.
This is a good question. First, let's establish the concept of aerobic capacity-the maximum energy production by the aerobic system, which relies on oxygen, glucose, and fatty acids to generate ATP without producing lactic acid, unlike anaerobic glycolysis.
Engaging in pump-level climbing for 20 minutes triggers the anaerobic glycolytic system, marked by a noticeable accumulation of lactate and other byproducts. However, this environment is suboptimal for enhancing aerobic capacity. ARCing, on the other hand, is specifically designed for low-intensity, high-volume training just below the aerobic threshold, akin to running in Zone 2.
The objective of ARCing is to induce physiological adaptations, including increased mitochondrial density, improved capillarization, enhanced fat metabolism, and heightened aerobic enzyme activity. These adaptations contribute significantly to aerobic capacity development. Opting for pump-level climbing would divert the focus away from the intended aerobic adaptations, as the anaerobic glycolytic system predominates in such conditions.
In summary, while pump-level climbing may seem to demand more energy, it shifts the metabolic pathways away from the aerobic system and hinders the targeted physiological improvements associated with ARCing. The essence of ARCing lies in its strategic approach to building a robust aerobic foundation for endurance.
Does this make sense? And hope it helps
I've never witnessed a significative effect of ARCing in a climber. I've done it myself for a whole cycle, and i didn't notice anything afterward. I get the feeling that time is better spent by climbing "easy" routes or boulders, in volume, rather than freely moving on a wall :
-you still learn movements, even on easy problems
-if you take little to no rest between them, you will still be in the same energy system
-it's way, way, way more interesting
-you will develop better tactics like : oh, this hold on this V2 isn't so good, and my goal is NOT to get pumped, so i need to make a decision, rather than take a bad hold on the wall and simply go onto another jug available.
ARCing definitely has a place and time, and there are different ways to work on it, however, we wouldn't rule it out if you are looking to improve your rest and fitness on a long wall.
One good example you mentioned was how you can go do super easy circuits and actually stay on the wall for long periods, learning to rest and feeling different holds. You can also use a fingerboard or even do movements with your feet on the floor.
What a video!
Simple resting during climbing. Enjoy!
$215... That's just too much. There are books available with the same amount of content for less than $30. So the extra $185 is to have someone read to you?
Hey Matthew, I'll list a few key features here that we think makes this much more valuable than a training book:
1. Interactive learning experience - it includes quizzes to test your learning
2. Lifetime access, where we will update sections as the knowledge and science progresses (it won't do out-of-date)
3. We have practical sections from V17 and f9b climbers explaining how their training works
4. It is a collection of experience from many elite level coaches and climbers, all with individual expertise to offer.
5. A high production value of video editing and on-screen graphic/illustrations offer something a book cannot.
6. This course give you the power to write your own plan and be self-coached. It's priced so that is costs less than or simialr to many training plans on the market, that may only last for one training cycle.
ARC = aerobic "restoration" and capillarity...not "recruitment".
At 5 Minutes on the wall I thought, yeah right...how? 20 Minutes? :D :D :D
great video, shame about the clickbaity title!
not quite 50% off. But still cool. The plan.
Sorry, but dumbing it down to two energy systems reflects a low level of knowledge about how the body works. There are way more limiting factors dictating a climbers performance than just energy systems. Biomechanical, nervous, ion, and vascular factors are just as important, and the importance of each factor is different in each individual. There are also genetic factors that determine the phenotype for each protein and cellular component in each system.
There are many ways to train and no correct answer. Trainings need to be tailored individuals' weaknesses. Absoloutely no size fits all.
lol. And then the video would be 8hrs long, and we'd need a degree in biology to understand it..
You are very correct that many other factors will effect performance, you seem very knowledgeable on the subject. We don't feel this video is the right place for this type of discussion and in fact it would remove some value and "digestibility" to most of our audience. The dumbing down reflects it is a 9 minute RUclips video that is presented to an audience of thousands, often with just the base knowledge of biology and sport science. See this as a brief overview of some of the key factors that can empower some actionable training methods.
Tbh 99% of climbers will never reach the anaerobic system...watch some runner or biker videos...they will explain it to you...
What do you mean never reach anaerobic system? As in, they never use the anaerobic energy system? Our research suggests most climbers with be using anaerobic glycolysis after just 30-40% of their maximum voluntary contraction. This low level of force threshold makes it a challenge for many climbers to not rely heavily on anaerobic systems when climbing.
Your channel has grown quite substantially, you could now focus on selling supplements that increase aerobic energy production and general power output to your viewers.
I don't actually understand how this relates to other activities to improve climbing strength like hangboarding. Is this supposed to be complementary or a substitute? If complementary, I'd appreciate any guides on how to implement the described routines in my own training habit. Otherwise, great video!
Lattice covered how to train different systems and skills in one session comprehensively in their video about progressing past the V5 plateau. In it, Josh explored how to do strength, endurance, skills and flexibility and how to progress through each one to do it effectively. Check it out… but also make it fit your own schedule! Josh’s session must’ve been massive that day!