Great video. The spiritual bypass is definitely a prominent pitfall on the path to awakening and wholeness in our time, where people want instant enlightenment. People tap into the transcendent Self during meditation and wrongfully believe they can skip over the decades of hard work to heal the self or Soul aspect. Jung said "most people won't lift a finger for their soul." This is because to access the Soul Center deep within the heart, one must face, accept, and integrate the Shadow...which is messy work to say the least. Thanks!
Agreed; and what a wonderful turn of phrase that is -- "the spiritual bypass". Do you mind if I use that? Currently working on an extended poem to encapsulate fhe existential crisis of modern western society.
This is precisely what drives addiction to alcohol and drugs, and it also accounts for why these addictions only begin as a choice but end as an obsession/compulsion that can only be broken by learning to access a Higher Power.
I brushed against my shadow last year in a low point. Hadn't read any Young or had any ideas about the shadow self. After having some understanding now I can say that my understanding of "self" is much more developed than before. Never want to go back to that place again but don't regret it.
This is exactly what I told my friend today as he told me that just the acknowledgement of trauma is enough to integrate, and I was truly not agreeing. There is so much work into healing, but it is worth it. And there is another problem with spirituality. The idea that understanding that you are non dual and consciousness, that means that there is no more need to actually experience the human experience at all.
Excellent conversation! My 2 cents is that there are other YT channels similar to the Buddha at the Gas Pump channel which Connie had mentioned toward the end: Guru Viking, New Thinking Allowed, Next Level Soul Podcast, Passion Harvest, Real Spiritual Talk Podcast, and many more. They all have their own style and are very interesting to watch.
I so appreciate your soothing voices on this channel. Your content is so helpful. And beautiful. Thank you so very, very much. I’m doing my best therapy right here. I can’t thank you enough for your gorgeous calmness. Strangely, I feel understood and even loved here - 🙏🏼
Just amazing what you hear amd find when you need it. I myself have a hard time joining groups. Im in my lonely phase of my journey doing my shadow work has most definitely been a challenge. But i feel like im on the right path most of the time. Life isnt perfect and that is one of the lessons one must learn early on.
I grew up in Berkeley in the 60s and 70s. While I have always had an impulse to seek the divine, my time in Berkeley gave me a heathy skepticism toward “cultish” leadership, because, unfortunately, many of my friends fell victim to it. All this to say, this is a really important topic and I’m glad you are brining it to the fore. Thank you for these podcasts. They have been incredible anchos during turbulent times. ❤
Many people step onto the path in search of magic bullet solutions to suffering. This creates opportunity for false gurus to do what they tend to do. It also creates opportunity for complexes to take hold of the psyche, often in the form of inflation. Enlightenment experiences might be subjectively identified as enlightenment (in some seemingly permanent sense), dissociative states identified as non-dual states of awareness, temporary ego suspension as "ego death," etc. People have these experiences in meditation and the ego tends to over-identify with them. Having the right guru is an indispensable asset in one's practice. Unfortunately, the power dynamic of the guru-student relationship lends itself to predation.
The unwritten step in AA. The 13th step. It’s not unusual for people to join these groups for the soul purpose of conning people out of money and sex. It’s a room full of people in recovery. It’s like shooting fish in a barrel.
I really appreciated Joseph's discussion of the unconsciousness of the shadow. Robert Bly's Little Book on Shadow tends to imply that we consciously reject or repress aspects of ourselves when he talks about putting things in the bag that drags behind us. The non-knowing of not only the bag content, but the bag itself, seems to me to be the point.
1:29:10 Joeseph really knows his onions. I'm very impressed that he has this very important insight into the nature of addiction, AA and the recovery process.
Joseph, you really caught my attention when you spoke about clients projecting idealized father complexes onto their analysts. Also when you spoke about us all carrying the Godhead within ourselves and searching for a screen to project that onto to see it. I feel like I definitely do both of these things to my best friend. I would love to hear you speak more about these ideas.
I went to learn meditation when I was 25 and ended up in an ashram where I got abused , had a traumatic childhood narcissistic mother co dependant alcoholic father - actually both of them were big drinkers. I was looking for a family as my own was so dysfunctional but was naive at 25 by 30 I had major ptsd and depression - still functioning working etc anc resilient but it would be great if more people in cults would speak up so it doesn’t continue. People I knew for years knew what happened but just left me to cope with it and let it continue with other innocent people. India and Yoga has a lot to answer for as they allow these teachers to continue damaging people . I saw the teacher is still to this day 30 years later at P L Yoga in Sydney still spouting the rubbish of enlightenment through trips to the same place I was abused as well as hundreds of others - it should be stopped. When does - me too # Yoga # abuse start ! Now I am disillusioned sadly. I don’t trust as much I am gradually doing therapy at 56.again and still have nightmares and I’m mostly alone unable to connect like others can. We are susceptible if we have alcoholism in our families 100%
Jamie Wheal talks a lot about the topics discussed Would love to see him on the show. It would be interesting to say the least . And of course thank you to everybody on the pod for continuing to share your wisdom with us ❤️
Thankyou for the discussion. It seems implied by Debs that there should be equality around oower, sex & money and that behaviour that doesn’t support this ideal is due to the shadow. As Andrew pointed out, that’s a cultural ideal and I believe could lead to a dangerous witch-hunt against not just patriarchy but hierarchy too. The cultural Marxism needs seperating out from what shadow work is or isn’t.
Excellent video. I love how much was covered on spirituality and how it was done. I don't agree with absolutely every statement (the idea that legality equals morality) but this was just great.
I was hoping to hear more about working with one's own Shadow material as an essential part of the spiritual path. In the myth of Isis and Osirus, the phallus plays a central role. Perhaps, our Western views of sexuality as sinful have contributed to the amount of perceived sexual abuse. I would have liked to hear more from Joseph, he made some very good counterpoints.
It feels like you dedicate this episode to me. I did start with transcendental meditation at a young age, and from there I got into a sect. I was full of mental problems, but they were visible, unlike the people of the group, who were pretty well established. There was a lot of lying (both from the pupils and the culprit, me excluded), craziness, megalomania, competing over hot air, and it degenerated further into a dark sex culture after 6 years. Yes, that's the time I wasted of my young life. I got totally paranoia, and fled to hindu India (6 months), and after that to buddhist Nepal (also 6 months), to find out that spiritual deviation was a global disease. I don't want to tell what the follow up was to this, but it is pretty bad, not to say horrible. As for now, things are going for the better (took a really long time), but still I am very much struggling with a socially accepted sect here, namely the orange monarchy (sorry , Liza Marciano), with farreaching tentacles into society and supported by spoonfed citizens. I should have found you guys when I was 18.
I was interested in the progression in the dream series from lab setting to aquarium - the sequencing suggests the next step (/dream) would be for the octopus to be free in the ocean (in the background provided by the dreamer I think they mention their association of octopuses with the deep ocean). If the dreamer were to dream of an octopus free in the ocean I’m wondering if that would suggest the dreamer has less need of a therapeutic relationship (if the octopus / human elements of the 2 dreams are representative of this). Alternatively, I wonder if this 3rd hypothetical dream would suggest a rejection of the therapeutic process - the sea being reminiscent of the unconscious from which things are dredged up (represented by the octopus). I think this either /or question could link to the acceptance/ hesitancy about the dreamer’s relationship with therapy (which links to the first dream’s struggle over the pearl of great price). Just some thoughts 🙂
The thunder reminded me of the tower card of tarot. Interesting that you say harvest... I love your beautiful minds... I had no idea you beautiful bastards existed. And I say that with every ounce of warmth. ❤️😁 Lol
We need to make discussions of sex Normal. Not kink shame. Me and my fiancé had a discussion about this. She told me how most girls don’t get to hear how sex actually works til it’s too late. How people shame away from the literal act of it and pretend it doesn’t happen or like people don’t think about it. Sex is always a thought! 🎉
Zweig is incorrect on one point-- students in Tibetan buddhist groups do NOT sign an NDA-like agreement regarding the teacher. I should know, I have been par of several Tibetan sanghas for over three decades. It is true the importance of the teacher and how to regard him or her, the proper attitude to cultivate etc are hugely emphasized, in fact it is part of the Tibetan canon to emphasize that even to regard the guru as a regular person will set back your 'progress' for years. In other words, no criticism allowed and see everything the teacher does as being for your benefit. I find that hugely problematic. But there is no signing of anything.
It' s quite disappointing to observe the lack of depth and proper knowledge of the guest, regarding the Tibetan Buddhism and its student-teacher relationship. It is far from being blind faith, as it follows Buddha's teachings, such as "examine and question the teacher, study the teachings." I am surprised that the guest had a very superficial and mundane perspective on this topic, without exploring the subtle and profound aspects of it. Once the teacher is properly studied, which requires years, the respect and devotion for the teacher are necessary tools for the path to liberation, as the teacher guides on that path. It is a very profound mind traning. And the same respect and "pure vision" must apply towards each sentient being, which is not to be misinterpreted as blind faith. Nowhere in Tibetan Buddhism it is said or written that the teacher can or must abuse the student. Those are isolated cases, and they do not represent the Grand View of Tibetan Buddhism. It is sad when a podcast guest gives a surface level view based on limited information and understanding.
This is actually embarrassing and painful to listen to this lady, Connie?, goes on and on about what she thinks Jungian Shadow means. She is clearly piggybacking, rather superimposing her feminism on Shadow work. Joe actually tried to steer her in the right direction but she is adamant in her own understanding. Sexual or power abuse are morality and ethics domain. A guru, apparently quite often these days, may very well be a charlatan and will play out his or her ego if and when an opportunity arises. Just because his or her sexual urges are in check most of the time doesn't mean these are their unconscious or shadow forces. Shadow, when shows itself to the conscious mind, is actually a shock or surprise to the person themselves. Moral issues on the other hand are very well understood boundaries that one must respect within a social or religious context. No one in any cultural or religious context anywhere in the world misunderstands or is ignorant of what sexual abuse, for example, is. Shadow is not a sum of repressed temptations or desires. Period.
Great video. The spiritual bypass is definitely a prominent pitfall on the path to awakening and wholeness in our time, where people want instant enlightenment. People tap into the transcendent Self during meditation and wrongfully believe they can skip over the decades of hard work to heal the self or Soul aspect. Jung said "most people won't lift a finger for their soul." This is because to access the Soul Center deep within the heart, one must face, accept, and integrate the Shadow...which is messy work to say the least. Thanks!
Well said ~ Joseph.
Great comment here. This is perhaps more important to realize, share and work with oneself than ever in human history.
Agreed; and what a wonderful turn of phrase that is -- "the spiritual bypass". Do you mind if I use that? Currently working on an extended poem to encapsulate fhe existential crisis of modern western society.
@@CerebralThinking It's a term that John Welwood coined in the 80s, lots of info out there on it.
This is precisely what drives addiction to alcohol and drugs, and it also accounts for why these addictions only begin as a choice but end as an obsession/compulsion that can only be broken by learning to access a Higher Power.
I brushed against my shadow last year in a low point. Hadn't read any Young or had any ideas about the shadow self. After having some understanding now I can say that my understanding of "self" is much more developed than before. Never want to go back to that place again but don't regret it.
and it's good to see your faces!!
What a treasure this channel is, fairly new to Carl Jung but its still accessible. Very cosy to listen to as well.
Most healing channel ❤
This is exactly what I told my friend today as he told me that just the acknowledgement of trauma is enough to integrate, and I was truly not agreeing. There is so much work into healing, but it is worth it.
And there is another problem with spirituality. The idea that understanding that you are non dual and consciousness, that means that there is no more need to actually experience the human experience at all.
Excellent conversation! My 2 cents is that there are other YT channels similar to the Buddha at the Gas Pump channel which Connie had mentioned toward the end: Guru Viking, New Thinking Allowed, Next Level Soul Podcast, Passion Harvest, Real Spiritual Talk Podcast, and many more. They all have their own style and are very interesting to watch.
I so appreciate your soothing voices on this channel. Your content is so helpful. And beautiful. Thank you so very, very much. I’m doing my best therapy right here. I can’t thank you enough for your gorgeous calmness. Strangely, I feel understood and even loved here - 🙏🏼
Just amazing what you hear amd find when you need it. I myself have a hard time joining groups. Im in my lonely phase of my journey doing my shadow work has most definitely been a challenge. But i feel like im on the right path most of the time. Life isnt perfect and that is one of the lessons one must learn early on.
I grew up in Berkeley in the 60s and 70s. While I have always had an impulse to seek the divine, my time in Berkeley gave me a heathy skepticism toward “cultish” leadership, because, unfortunately, many of my friends fell victim to it. All this to say, this is a really important topic and I’m glad you are brining it to the fore. Thank you for these podcasts. They have been incredible anchos during turbulent times. ❤
Many people step onto the path in search of magic bullet solutions to suffering. This creates opportunity for false gurus to do what they tend to do. It also creates opportunity for complexes to take hold of the psyche, often in the form of inflation. Enlightenment experiences might be subjectively identified as enlightenment (in some seemingly permanent sense), dissociative states identified as non-dual states of awareness, temporary ego suspension as "ego death," etc. People have these experiences in meditation and the ego tends to over-identify with them. Having the right guru is an indispensable asset in one's practice. Unfortunately, the power dynamic of the guru-student relationship lends itself to predation.
The unwritten step in AA. The 13th step. It’s not unusual for people to join these groups for the soul purpose of conning people out of money and sex. It’s a room full of people in recovery. It’s like shooting fish in a barrel.
I really appreciated Joseph's discussion of the unconsciousness of the shadow. Robert Bly's Little Book on Shadow tends to imply that we consciously reject or repress aspects of ourselves when he talks about putting things in the bag that drags behind us. The non-knowing of not only the bag content, but the bag itself, seems to me to be the point.
1:29:10 Joeseph really knows his onions. I'm very impressed that he has this very important insight into the nature of addiction, AA and the recovery process.
I just found her book through Instagram and was able to rent it online yesterday. How wonderfully synchronicitic. Thank you for all the great shows
And I LOVE being able to see you all.
Paramahansa Yogananda is a self realized master. All true spiritual paths lead to the same goal.
Joseph, you really caught my attention when you spoke about clients projecting idealized father complexes onto their analysts. Also when you spoke about us all carrying the Godhead within ourselves and searching for a screen to project that onto to see it. I feel like I definitely do both of these things to my best friend. I would love to hear you speak more about these ideas.
I went to learn meditation when I was 25 and ended up in an ashram where I got abused , had a traumatic childhood narcissistic mother co dependant alcoholic father - actually both of them were big drinkers. I was looking for a family as my own was so dysfunctional but was naive at 25 by 30 I had major ptsd and depression - still functioning working etc anc resilient but it would be great if more people in cults would speak up so it doesn’t continue. People I knew for years knew what happened but just left me to cope with it and let it continue with other innocent people. India and Yoga has a lot to answer for as they allow these teachers to continue damaging people . I saw the teacher is still to this day 30 years later at P L Yoga in Sydney still spouting the rubbish of enlightenment through trips to the same place I was abused as well as hundreds of others - it should be stopped. When does - me too # Yoga # abuse start ! Now I am disillusioned sadly. I don’t trust as much I am gradually doing therapy at 56.again and still have nightmares and I’m mostly alone unable to connect like others can. We are susceptible if we have alcoholism in our families 100%
Jamie Wheal talks a lot about the topics discussed
Would love to see him on the show. It would be interesting to say the least .
And of course thank you to everybody on the pod for continuing to share your wisdom with us ❤️
Thankyou for the discussion. It seems implied by Debs that there should be equality around oower, sex & money and that behaviour that doesn’t support this ideal is due to the shadow. As Andrew pointed out, that’s a cultural ideal and I believe could lead to a dangerous witch-hunt against not just patriarchy but hierarchy too. The cultural Marxism needs seperating out from what shadow work is or isn’t.
Loving the orange Lisa! This was one of my favorite episodes this year!
Fascinating! Thank you so much! 🩵💛🩵
Love the new intro!!👍
Excellent video. I love how much was covered on spirituality and how it was done. I don't agree with absolutely every statement (the idea that legality equals morality) but this was just great.
I was hoping to hear more about working with one's own Shadow material as an essential part of the spiritual path. In the myth of Isis and Osirus, the phallus plays a central role. Perhaps, our Western views of sexuality as sinful have contributed to the amount of perceived sexual abuse. I would have liked to hear more from Joseph, he made some very good counterpoints.
It feels like you dedicate this episode to me. I did start with transcendental meditation at a young age, and from there I got into a sect. I was full of mental problems, but they were visible, unlike the people of the group, who were pretty well established. There was a lot of lying (both from the pupils and the culprit, me excluded), craziness, megalomania, competing over hot air, and it degenerated further into a dark sex culture after 6 years. Yes, that's the time I wasted of my young life. I got totally paranoia, and fled to hindu India (6 months), and after that to buddhist Nepal (also 6 months), to find out that spiritual deviation was a global disease.
I don't want to tell what the follow up was to this, but it is pretty bad, not to say horrible. As for now, things are going for the better (took a really long time), but still I am very much struggling with a socially accepted sect here, namely the orange monarchy (sorry , Liza Marciano), with farreaching tentacles into society and supported by spoonfed citizens.
I should have found you guys when I was 18.
I believe meditation is the solution to all of one’s problems.
I was interested in the progression in the dream series from lab setting to aquarium - the sequencing suggests the next step (/dream) would be for the octopus to be free in the ocean (in the background provided by the dreamer I think they mention their association of octopuses with the deep ocean). If the dreamer were to dream of an octopus free in the ocean I’m wondering if that would suggest the dreamer has less need of a therapeutic relationship (if the octopus / human elements of the 2 dreams are representative of this). Alternatively, I wonder if this 3rd hypothetical dream would suggest a rejection of the therapeutic process - the sea being reminiscent of the unconscious from which things are dredged up (represented by the octopus). I think this either /or question could link to the acceptance/ hesitancy about the dreamer’s relationship with therapy (which links to the first dream’s struggle over the pearl of great price). Just some thoughts 🙂
The thunder reminded me of the tower card of tarot. Interesting that you say harvest... I love your beautiful minds... I had no idea you beautiful bastards existed. And I say that with every ounce of warmth. ❤️😁 Lol
any chance you would add bookmarks to your videos around various topics ?
I can ask our video editor. ~ Joseph
@@thisjungianlife thanks :)
i love the dream section in every episode so much! Is it possible to give release a playlist with all the dream sections combined?
Interesting idea. I'll check that out. ~ Joseph.
Teachers and Gurus act out the collective shadow of the disciples. Simple.
We need to make discussions of sex
Normal. Not kink shame.
Me and my fiancé had a discussion about this.
She told me how most girls don’t get to hear how sex actually works til it’s too late. How people shame away from the literal act of it and pretend it doesn’t happen or like people don’t think about it.
Sex is always a thought! 🎉
❤❤❤
But we're never gonna survive , unlessss , we go a little crazy..
Have you listened to his song 'Padded Cell'?
What do you mean?
lol I love that song!
Great song "Crazy", by Seal, love it.
Zweig is incorrect on one point-- students in Tibetan buddhist groups do NOT sign an NDA-like agreement regarding the teacher. I should know, I have been par of several Tibetan sanghas for over three decades. It is true the importance of the teacher and how to regard him or her, the proper attitude to cultivate etc are hugely emphasized, in fact it is part of the Tibetan canon to emphasize that even to regard the guru as a regular person will set back your 'progress' for years. In other words, no criticism allowed and see everything the teacher does as being for your benefit. I find that hugely problematic. But there is no signing of anything.
Unconscious conflict causes paranoia ?
The guest speaker appears to be more concerned with the shadows of other people rather than her own.
aaaand that's probably my own shadow speaking the above
It' s quite disappointing to observe the lack of depth and proper knowledge of the guest, regarding the Tibetan Buddhism and its student-teacher relationship. It is far from being blind faith, as it follows Buddha's teachings, such as "examine and question the teacher, study the teachings." I am surprised that the guest had a very superficial and mundane perspective on this topic, without exploring the subtle and profound aspects of it. Once the teacher is properly studied, which requires years, the respect and devotion for the teacher are necessary tools for the path to liberation, as the teacher guides on that path. It is a very profound mind traning. And the same respect and "pure vision" must apply towards each sentient being, which is not to be misinterpreted as blind faith. Nowhere in Tibetan Buddhism it is said or written that the teacher can or must abuse the student. Those are isolated cases, and they do not represent the Grand View of Tibetan Buddhism. It is sad when a podcast guest gives a surface level view based on limited information and understanding.
This is actually embarrassing and painful to listen to this lady, Connie?, goes on and on about what she thinks Jungian Shadow means. She is clearly piggybacking, rather superimposing her feminism on Shadow work. Joe actually tried to steer her in the right direction but she is adamant in her own understanding. Sexual or power abuse are morality and ethics domain. A guru, apparently quite often these days, may very well be a charlatan and will play out his or her ego if and when an opportunity arises. Just because his or her sexual urges are in check most of the time doesn't mean these are their unconscious or shadow forces. Shadow, when shows itself to the conscious mind, is actually a shock or surprise to the person themselves. Moral issues on the other hand are very well understood boundaries that one must respect within a social or religious context. No one in any cultural or religious context anywhere in the world misunderstands or is ignorant of what sexual abuse, for example, is.
Shadow is not a sum of repressed temptations or desires. Period.