Increasing Your Dodge Chance Is Weird... Deep Dive - Diablo 4 - Season 4
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2024
- I will explain exactly how your dodge chance in game gets calculated so that you can makes better decisions to better your dodge chance and survival.
Damage Reduction Series: • Damage Reduction Videos
Dodge Calculator (make a copy to use) - Credit: Sanctum: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
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#diablo4 #rogue #guide
Chapters:
00:00 Intro Question
02:20 Dodge Category Breakdown
02:56 How Multiplicative Dodge Works
10:13 How Additive Dodge Works
12:36 Key Application Example
15:04 Dodge Calculator 
Игры
![[DIABLO 4] THIS Might Surprise You! - Lucky Hit Chance Deep Dive](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MHNkKxKXoek/mqdefault.jpg)
Clarification: So it appears the Crowded Sage is the exception (Thanks @benbb2 for pointing this out) and that it is actually multiplicative (it does not have a [+] in the description). The other aspects (Uncanny Treachery and Assimilation) are additive as described in the video and do have a [+]. Calculator will be updated today (6/16) hopefully.
Did you learn something new? If so, what was it? What else would you like "deep dives" on?
Same things for lucky hit chance? I assumed everything thing was additive but did not really check
@@MathieuPilot All +LHC actually is simply additive afaik.
@@XarrioNot sure bout that🤔
Build Question:
Running your Andariel build with Doombringer. Think it's worth replacing a ring with Edgemaster's on it for Starless Skies after the increase to 50%x damage? Just have to work in a few more flurry procs, but that's also getting buffed, too.
I think i'm getting a bug with Assimilation aspect not adding dodge chance to my stats at all. Anyone else having this issue?
Keep doing these, it's very helpful info on the less intuitive stat mechanics
For me the most informative part is at 0:38 when the community reveals that they are smart enough to know that nothing makes sense. Good job everyone, in a round about way this means that Blizzard can't trick us anymore!
Awesome video, super clear. I always knew additive was better but never understood why.
Best breakdown of math in this game that I’ve seen. Subbed and thank you for this!
absolutely LOVE it when the math checks out and is being done to prove what goes on. this kind of stuff really shows who can do the math vs those that just look at numbers and nothing more
another way to say this is, "most times, when i add dodge to my existing dodge, the new dodge value is reduced by my current total dodge as a percentage, except aspects which don't seem to multiply but instead seem to add to my dodge total straight up"
worked this way in d3, too. barb had a shout that gave 30% dodge, and a 2pc set bonus for horde of 90 savages set that 2x shout effects and such, giving us 60% dodge from our shouts. but if you added 10% dodge on top of that 60%, you wouldn't get 60 + 10 = 70. you'd instead get 60 + (10*.4) = 64% dodge, as the 'new' 10% dodge was reduced by 60%, making it give only 4% dodge instead of 10%, due to my existing 60% dodge chance
Ah perfect timing I was just reading on this lol.. thanks again
I'm glad they added more ways to get dodge, it feels great with Dark Shroud and Enhanced Dark Shroud, and I can't wait for the Umbrous Aspect changes for melee.
Very clear demo. Thanks
Killer information and fantastically clear explanation.
Now I'm wondering about the value if stacking max hp vs dex (and other dodge sources) on my rogue
Thanks for such good informative videos! As a rogue is there a dodge chance% you recommend in general or is it build specific? If it’s build specific how much do I need for heartyseeker and how much did Andy Flurry? Thank you in advance
This is a perfect video. Thank you. Could you briefly explain how the skill blend poison imbuement works? I am not sure why this skill isn't really taken advantage of, maybe I am missing a key problem with that skill.
I love that your Rogue looks like he's going on a summer hike. xD
Awesome work Xarrio. I've always been a barb guy, but I've switched to rogue after seeing you play it and the game simply became much more fun after switching. Just a question... are u gonna update your most recent andy build planner based on this information or the build in the planner is the best min/max overall? Keep up the good work man!
I made 1 change for the starter build to go for dex % instead of LHC %. Other than that, it'll stay the same. I'll probably end up adding the Fluidity glyph to the board with Monday's update.
Good info man. Appreciate your work! Thanks
Watched your video, very informative about how Dodge works in D4, loved the calculator, but slight problem with it, it's missing a slot for Necro (possible other future class) shield slots. Shields can Temper Dodge chance just like the other defensive slots. If you went all in on Dodge as a Necro you could easily push 70%+ Dodge with every Necro slot filled, potentially higher if you Masterwork rolls hit a Dodge here and there.
I have uaed both dodge aspects on my sorc with dodge % affixes so i didnt have to run a defensive skill on my bar. Wanted to test the aspect that gave me 80%x on my staff for having none.
Ran a shards build. Dodge was around 35% or so.
Hey Xarrio, are you going to post an update on that build after today's buffs ?
Hello, it has been 4 days since the mid-season patch was released. Do you have any updates on the new Andariel Rogue build? I followed your planner and would like to know if you made any adjustments. Thanks!
on console when i add aspects they do not change my dodge chance? and how much dodge would you need before aspects to get 100% then?
Hello xarrio, I'm a Brazilian who follows your channel, sorry for my English, but I wanted to know about temper
Does putting the temper 3 times on any item and then adding my item that I'm going to use increase the chance of getting the temper I need?
Your in depth analysis is always 💯
What do you think of the additive/multiplicative options of exploiters and smiting aspects - would the crowd control possibly lead to even faster staggers on Andy flurry?
Good Q. I've done some testing with these aspects and while the crowd control should make the stagger a lot faster, in actual practice, it doesn't seem to make a huge difference. (for example the 40% more CC from smiting may stagger like 10% faster). There is some weird hidden stagger mechanics that I don't think we have fully figured out yet based on mine and others testing.
@@Xarrioappreciate that man - maybe it requires some crowd control duration on gear to cause a more significant impact relative to the multiplicative factor? You guys are the pros though I just only recently got a Andy’s and am making that build now thanks to your video 😊
So if i have 2800 dex with 90 dodge is it better to get hit on master work dodge or dex on amulet?
The 8%+ on the aspect is added str8. So the 8% attribute adds 8% of current dodge
I was literally testing this lastnight and didn't get to finish testing then this video came up today, but you think it be better on the temper just because you can masterwork it
Do you stream?
So if I understand correctly I can reach 100% dodge and become intangible to attacks? interesting 🤔 I used your calculator here to simulate what I would need to reach 100% and it's not too absurd 😌 excellent video!
Pretty much. Though some ground damage over time effects you can't dodge.
Diblo math's 😂 anyway how does dodge chance work ? Does it work only while you dodge ?or just mean u are less likely to get hit ?
Hello. Ive been experimenting with your beautiful andy built and found out interesting bag. There sould be synergy between andy helm and ring of starless skies but what is actually happening is that ring cuts your damage. I also maxed out the paragon board to 7 active glyphs. May be there is a bag calculating this all multiplicative damage.
Kind regards, have a nice day
And also one nore question the dex stat does not influe on andy damage?
@@nerdunknownsgamereviewer537 Dex increases andariel's damage.
I know this technically isn’t the video for this but how do u guys get resplendent sparks past your first three do u just gotta hope and get lucky for that 4th one ?
The simplest way is to just make an alt solely to complete the iron wolves rewards again.
A minion necro or thorns barb will easily get you there. Plus you'll stock up on crafting mats and gold the whole time.
If in doubt - plus % stats on gear that isn’t blue or yellow does next to nothing
I have txcoldman on my f list too. :D
Is andy visage still bugged ?
Does the agile passive count the actual evade cooldown as a cooldown?
It does not.
@@Xarrio dang, wishful thinking. Thanks for the info and wonderful video. I wish these and other stats were easier to track in game.
If you choose 1ga of damage or dex
There's a public opinion that it's a damage True?
I play a high dodge build with assimilation for 1 week, I can confirm It can be really efficient.
Yea, I have 100% dodge chance, well, anywhere from 100.7% to 101.6% depending on which rings i'm running.
This is flat 100% dodge, no incense, no agile.
I'll tell you how I did it: Good tempers on amulet, helmet, chest, and pants. GA dodge on pants and boots. Good luck masterworking (i probably reset my gear over 100x, it took me two weeks of farming pits to finally get lucky enough.)
The affixes isnt enough. I run assimilation, and crowded sage. That still isn't enough.
The last rabbit in the hat was Dexterity. I stacked dex to ~3400 to achieve 100% flat. I currently am at a few shy of 3600. Full 12/12, done with the rogue gear. GG.
Why did I do this?
Simple. 1 reason.
To kill thorns barbs in pvp.
For seasons, i've made rogues, hit the fields because thats why i play this game, and shadow step suicided myself on a thorns barb.
When I found out you could dodge thorns, I knew that 100% was gonna happen and I was gonna do whatever it took to get there. Now I kill thorns barbs. It was very much worth it. I can even kill 25MV "immortal" barbs. Also very entertaining.
Much like @Xarrio's videos!
w00t!
Also, thought I would mention, you can dodge ALOT of attacks in the games, from monsters, players, it's really awesome how much you can dodge. THAT BEING SAID.. you can't dodge everything. Fire enchanted elites, cold circles, poison puddles, NO. Firewall, incinerate, poison wind shear, NO.
Mortar elites, exploding poison bubbles, nearly all boss mechanics in the pit YES.
Just to name a few. Thanks!
The dodge calculator is giving wrong output if you are using both dodge aspects, tested this ingame, communicated this in rogue chat of sanctuary where you are. verify this information before linking this google sheet. The current one is not working properly.
Thanks for letting me know. Sanctum has been made aware of it and is fixing it today.
I just wish crowded sage was additive like the others.
the highest dodge chance ive gotten is 84.5% and thats with every dodge affix/buff/aspect (except chest armor tempering), but I think it might be possible to get 100% (maybe). Definitely could hit 90%+
It is possible to get 100%, and i have made it
@@benbb2 how did you do it?
@@benbb2What's the cap though? Surely you can't dodge 100% of the attacks.
@@lishengshun2873 you can have over 100% there is no cap. You can only dodge all direct attack
Awsome video and was a big help for me, but this kind of videos should not be necessary.
They should have an explanation in game on how things work like Last Epoch.
getting the "percentage from what is left" is what i consider "diminishing return". I get what you mean with it not being, but it makes more sense to call it diminishing return. For example resistances previous to the rework were with diminishing return (as they are in DIablo 3), even tho you would say they werent. It is a matter of comparison. I dont compare to the current state, but to the initial state. If you do that they clearly are with diminishing return.
That's not what diminishing returns are here, simply because the value of going to 100% dodge is not the same as going, let's say, 100% crit chance (or, alternatively, any stat that scales above 100% mostly linearly, like crit damage). Going from 0% dodge to 10% dodge effectively gives you 10% extra survivability on average, but going from 90% dodge to 100% gives you extra... well, infinity of survivability, because you effectively become immortal. This is why multiplicative dodge is NOT diminishing returns - when you get extra 10% dodge on top of whatever dodge affixes you already have, well, the stat does exactly what it advertises: you will be dodging 10% more often compared to what you were dodging before. This is mostly how all defensive stats work, at least those that scale at maximum up to 100% with 100% being immortality (well, except the stats that don't, but those get a hard cap, like resistances and armor, and the cap is what ensures they don't go to 100% to make your immortal). If you compare that to 100% crit chance now, well, you won't be doing infinite amounts of damage with 100% crit, you will simply be doing critical damage on all your attacks. Diminishing returns here would be something like crit chance being multiplicative, for instance (which is not the case in Diablo 4, but in some games, sometimes, it is).
@@initmj Good explanation. Funny enough I would argue that most additive stats are the ones that give diminishing returns in this game. For example if increase your additive damage by 10%, you now do 110% damage, which is 10% more damage than before. If you increase your your additive damage another 10% from 10% to 20%, you are now doing 120% damage, which is now 10%/110% = 9.1% more damage, so you are in fact getting diminishing returns as you add more and more additive dmg stats.
@@Xarrio That's also not actually exactly what the original "diminishing returns" term means. Your example is just the nature of how marginal increases work in general, or, in other terms, what people call "buckets". For example, let's say when you critically hit, you deal 100% more damage (or, double damage). Going from 0% crit to 10% crit chance gives you 10% more DPS, and for a DPS of, let's say, 100, your average DPS becomes 110. Now, if you had 50% crit chance and go to 60%, you gained 10% extra critical chance "additively" to the whatever critical chance you already had. You'd be getting from 150 DPS to 160, which is no longer 10% dps increase, but is now 6.6% DPS increase. However, you still gain the exact same amount of DPS out of that 10% crit chance, which is 10 DPS. And that means that's not diminishing returns. Diminishing returns actually would be something like this: in order to get 1% crit chance, you need 100 crit rating if you're at 0% baseline crit chance already, but you'd need 200 crit rating to get 1% again if your baseline crit chance is 50%, and this is for a stat like critical rating that already scales completely linearly. THIS example would be diminishing returns, where you're actually compelled to diversify your stats more than you would naturally, and where something like "1% crit chance" doesn't actually give you a clear advertised amount of power.
@@initmj I hear you. Thing is, even in my linearly scaling damage example, you are compelled to diversify your stats more. For example, in this game, there are multiple ways to increase your damage b/c of different multipliers "buckets if you will". For example, main stat vs + additive dmg %. They both scale linearly, but are different multipliers. But if you were to put all of you affixes into just main stat and none in additive dmg %, you'd end up being much weaker than if you diversified into both additive dmg % and dex b/c of the reduction in increased power percentage wise the higher you go. So if the criteria to be diminishing returns is being compelled to diversity your stats, as you said, then I would again argue that these linearly scaling stats are diminishing returns. I think we both understand how all of this works, and it is just semantics at this point. Good discussion.
Not sure, but my thorns barb with a random 4.96 dodge chance dodges entirely too much
Wait!
So no more + to exploit on the amulet, switched to Deadly Poison now!?
Loving the flurry build, with mediocre gear and some semi bricked tempers I am doing 89 pits pretty easy, trash is nothing some bosses can be a bitch though!
Exploit and deadly are about the same for this build. Exploit is slightly better, but a good deadly roll is good too.
Hi I like you video but some information is wrong, dodge from aspect will still be multiplicative if your dodge Chance is high enough like over 80%, I have tested the two dodge Chance aspect only give me 12% dodge Chance, I can send you a video to show you. When I’m with the aspect I have 100% dodge, after I changed it, I have 96.4%
is it worth running dodge as aspect? Seems like a waste.
For pve, no because you can still get killed, just balanced out. But for pvp, you should get 100% dodge but you can still be killed by sorc, barba. So it doesn’t really matter lol
So it appears the Crowded Sage is the exception and that it is actually multiplicative (it does not have a [+] in the description). The other aspects (Uncanny Treachery and Assimilation) are additive as described in the video and do have a [+]. Thanks for pointing this out. I missed this one. Dang blizzard not being consistent with anything lol.
Ben what build your doing on your rogue
@@XarrioI thought all aspects are multiplicative, thanks for your clarification
Blizzard math checks out
All these aspects with the addition of dodge are no longer adding up today.
Source Affix Value
FALSE Helm Temper: 10
TRUE Chest Temper: 14.8
TRUE Leg Temper: 10
TRUE Amulet Temper: 14.8
TRUE Leg Affix: 15.4
TRUE Boot Affix: 15.4
FALSE Agile Passive: 12
Total Multiplicative 53.24%
Source Value
Dexterity 3080
Assimilation TRUE
Crowded Sage TRUE
Uncanny Treachery FALSE
Total Additive 46.8%
Total Dodge 100.0%
so is possible to 100% ？
Very surprising that blizzard still not offering a detailed in-game stats
If everyone knew exactly how things worked, the complaints about the mechanics would likely intensify.
@@Grifter010 lol true
but i heard u cant dodge bosses...true or not?
You can dodge bosses, but there are certain ground dot effects that can't be dodged.
@@Xarrio thank you for clarifying this.
The easiest way to get 100% dodge chance is Inner Sight + Leyrana Legend node. But only 2 secs. Haha
this doesn't work in pvp
dude im not gonna watch all that math... a 16min video. i go to the end i wanna see the answer in plain english. which is better? the assimilation or tempering all that shit?
The answer is: It depends... and if you want to know what it depends on, you have to watch the video/understand the math... hence the 16 min video. GL.
Still avoiding the question on how you have 60k sheet attack power (even with Innercalm active + no potions).
That number dont have much meaning...
you can just put as many "+% Damage" to your gears to get that number big. But can still do way less damage than someone only have like 20k attack power
Attack power just comes from certain stats, such as dex, +dmg %, certain aspects... it really is not a good indicator of anything because it does not factor in a lot of other things that increase your actual damage (lot of your conditionals). More often than not, people with high attack power do less damage than those with low attack power (because those with high attack power often are stacking too much of certain stats that are counting toward attack power and not enough of other stats that don't show up on the attack power stat).