ProMaster DISASTER Van - Part 1: Runs on 3 CYLINDERS??
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- Опубликовано: 7 фев 2024
- We're heading out on an urgent long-distance mobile diagnostics call to Akron, Ohio.
Two Russian Expedited Delivery Drivers are STRANDED at the "ProMasters Only" specialty shop.
After 3 DAYS of the parts cannon, Kip the shop owner called for help.
It's an 8-hour long trip, so buckle up!
Will we be able to get this crazy ProMaster van back on the road without any extra parts??
IVAN'S PICO WAVEFORMS:
drive.google.com/drive/folder...
LAUNCH X431 PRO3S+ Elite Bluetooth Bi-Directional Scan Tool:
www.amazon.com/dp/B092894STV?...
Enjoy!
Ivan 
Авто/Мото
Ivan. I used to work for Iveco, and on the Iveco Daily, the coolant pressure sensor would fail and push coolant down the wiring insolation and in to the ECM. I have seen it a few times. ECM's changed on the first diagnosis, and the vehicle would be back a month later with water inside the ECM again. Check all your coolant sensors for water in the plugs. That Promaster van is in the Fiat, Iveco family, same dash and controls,
Wow-- Push liquid into the insulation around the coolant sensor wire and back into ECM. That means you'd need a vent to expel the liquid!!!
Poke a hole with a drain line in the wire before it gets back to the connector!!! TSB issued with a vampire tap.
I've heard about a similar problem with some older Sprinter vans.. Transmission fluid would travel from a failed transmission connector to the TCM through cable insulation causing a TCM failure. Charging the TCM only will guarantee a come back.
i can attest to this on the sprinters the fluid will wick up three feet to the tcm under the seat.@@danielg4228
Certain KIA V-6’s do this with the oil pressure sender. There is a TSB on it and limited warranty extension. It leaks oil externally in the valley under the intake, which then moves down to the transmission mounting then down making it look like a rear main seal leak. It also pushes oil into the attached wiring of the sender, which makes its way out under the intake and all the way over to the right side front of engine to a few solenoids on a bracket above the valve cover. The oil soaks thru those then drips oil down onto the serpentine belt and throws it all over that side of the car and hood.
I've heard this "coolant migration" was also an issue on early-2000s VWs with the coolant level sensor in the overflow bottle. Fortunately I haven't seen it personally!
Hey Ivan, I had a similar issue with a BCM. I have a HVAC type vacuum pump (5CFM). Made a chamber and let it sit in there for 30 minutes with vacuum down to 29 in Hg, solved the issue. You could also put the BCM in an oven let it cook at 250 degrees for 15 minutes or so, that may also work. Just make sure you determine the melt point of the solder and plastic before you set the temperature. The vacuum is a better option, depending on the tools you have available.
Don't use an oven... Use a heat gun and plenty of flux.
"These two Russian guys ..." isn't that the opening to a comedy routine?
Or an old porn movie staring Sarah Palin (look alike).
I think it was titled "Nailin Palin, I see russians"
It might be the opening to a Beatbox Final :) "Improver vs Helium || Semi final beatbox || V1 Battle 18.06.2021"
I like how the date is the most legible part of the gauge cluster. I guess then you can remember when it blew up easier
now that is funny.
This is a 'What The Heck!' Ivan special! 🙂
Welcome to Ohio! So good to have someone who speaks Russian to help sort this out. I have a Russian friend who helps me with translations. You are kind and generous with your time.
Remember when ECU/ PCM were mounted inside the car? My yukon has object sensors mounted in the bumpers that get sprayed with water and salt from the tires, kills low speed network - Brilliant!
Mine is ..😊late 90s Nissan and Toyota..sweet
I sealed mine in plastic bag with moisture absorber silica and wd40 ..
I know, I mean why would you want the electronic "brain" in the hottest part of the vehicle? When I started seeing GM mount them under the hood, I knew failures were imminent.
@@topher8634 not only the hottest place ..but subjected to moisture and under the hood vapors..
Evil design to sell more rotten cars@@topher8634
Never praise the chef before your meal is servered
That connector is why, when I work on my own vehicles and have to pull a connector apart, it gets a thorough inspection even if it's working and also a dose of Fluid Film, Corrosion-X, or dielectric grease before it goes back together. About once per year, when I'm under my truck for other reasons, I take some of the chassis grounds apart, especially in the back, to see how they're doing. Stainless brush to clean up, then fluid film or dielectric grease for reassembly. I don't wait for problems to happen.
What a sad combination of events, Ivan! A problem with the windshield cowl kills the PCM, because the pins are not watertight! Expensive and requires the dealer to set it up, which is even more expensive. I'm hoping that Part 2 brings some good news.
No redundancy. Terrible design.
It’s the Stellantis version of GM’s active fuel management
"What could possibly go wrong?"
It’s a feature really😂
The harness connector to the PCM is meant to be water tight, so the seal in the connector is bad, replacing the PCM will eventually lead to the same issue. Mounting a plastic hood over the top of that unit would aid in deflecting falling water also.
Agree . I'd try to find a new connector seal . There's always moisture under the hood just from driving in the rain
Pro master is short for PRObably Master cylinder dripping on ECU 😂
😆
When the pcm is repaired it needs a metal cover built to deflect the water dripping off the cowal as another layer of water repellant.Cheers Ivan.
You are a master problem solver because of your persistence. You know there is a solution and you have the will and discipline to find it. You don’t allow emotions to interfere with logic. It’s a joy to watch you work although I have to give myself a break at times. I hope I never need to have you repair my vehicles but I
will if nobody else can. Congratulations for your success!
Перепаять флеш память с оригинального блока ЭБУ на новый и всё без проблем заработает.
I have a 2014 Promaster with this exact same problem! Can watch injector pulse and coil control shut off 2 seconds after start up. Funny enough if you unplug the MAP or Cam sensor then coil and injector control stays on and will run (just runs like poo with no MAP sensor plugged in).
Check all your coolant sensors for moisture in the plug. Coolant temp sensor will fail and push coolant through the insulation on wires into the pcm.
Will this kill the pcm or is it salvageable? I dug deeper into some harnesses and did find some coolant in the harness coming from the oil filter housing area (heat shielded harness.
Catalytic converter! (I have no idea, I’ve never worked on a Promaster) 😂
In England these are calledl peugeot boxers mines 2010 with a older ford transit engine still got to watch for leaking scuttle
Ivan, I bet part two gets "very interesting". Thanks for Sharing!
Ivan I'm rooting for you, you're the best!!
Thanks Ivan!
man you so lucky to get this cases. every time i get a case like this am so excited to get to the vehicule.
I wasn't familiar with them ProMaster vans but it's looks to be the same as the Citroën Relay/Peugeot Boxer/Fiat Ducato that are all the same vans & massively popular here in the UK.
Yes, just Fiat junk
@@kevinbarry71 I owned my Citroën Relay for 7yrs & not a single thing has gone wrong with it.
Also they have the same engines as a Ford Transit but I don't know if these Dodge things have the same engines.
@@WombleUKengine is the the 3.6 pentistar Chrysler/ Mercedes design first installed in the Minivan and Jeep Cherokee 2011 and 300c
And the same stupid design, almost every Ducato I know suffers from water leaking on Abs, fuse box and cam cover.
Hi Ivan, if you have a hot air soldering station, you can swap a memory chip, and you will be able to start the engine. Yes, you will need to open a new PCM. A had a similar situation not that far ago and It worked out well. Good luck!
Ivan barely uses flux now you want him removing IC's? lol.
The cowl leak is a known issue. Why shops and owners sometimes seemingly refuse to address it is beyond me. If the owner thinks the shop is just trying to rip them off for an uneeded service then Google it, yeah you can't believe everything you read on the internet yada yada, but it's easy to see that it's a real problem and the fix is DIY friendly.
This other mechanic Dave has a video where he rants about the exact same root cause of all this mayhem
What is the fix? Is the cowl actually fixable or do you just have to make a rain cover for the PCM to stop the water dripping on it?
Woo, road trip!
I have a friend that works at the Dodge dealer and there’s no less than 30 of those things in there daily with every issue you could imagine. The water intrusion from the cowls happens on brand new ones. Very poor engineering. They could have at least put a slip cover over the PCM like they did the Jeep Cherokee for the same issue. Thanks!
I have a friend that has a fleet of these for a wholesale food delivery service. He has the pcm's wrapped with plastic bags. Since he did that, only 1 replacement has failed and he suspects due to heat, not water..Pick your poison I guess...13 of the 16 he has have failed due to water intrusion. I'm surprised the Pro Master shop hasn't seen more of that!
The new pcm needs a plastic roof/cover to re-direct the water away from the pcm, and a new connector fitted.
I bet they wont fix the bad rain leak, RIP Second pcm. :-(
Moisture is most likely coming through wire insulation of a bad coolant temp sensor. I dont think it's due to exterior (rain) moisture.
I had a customer who lives in West Memphis, Ar. His Corvette went under in spring flooding. Everything was repaired except the electronics. I replaced MOSFETS, Damper Diodes and a 555 timer IC, and the car was fine. I then waterproofed the PCM enclosure and a year later… it happened again. This time… the PCM was fine and worked after the engine was serviced to remove water and debris.
He needs taller tires.
@@marty0715yt He finally moved. It was impossible to find any affordable insurance for his home and auto. He bought the car for $200 after the 1st flood and it was only a year old. He made out okay.
Maybe that is Dodge's way of cooling the PCM on a hot day. 🤣 Seriously though, I can't believe how much water is seeping on to that computer, that is crazy. Have to put some type of cover over the PCM or try to seal the cowl up. I wonder if you could put a heat lamp over the PCM and dry it out if it isn't already fried.
Talk about the parts canon!!
Have to get the leak fixed. Crazy stuff
Ivan, check out some of the Jeep guys solutions for waterproofing their ECU’s for water fording. A plastic Tupperware box that fits around the ECU, combined with a cutout for the wiring harness. Then a grommet & or sealer around the harness entrance point. I’m certain there’s videos on waterproofing electrical components.
looking forward to part 2
The fun part will be how to protect the PCM so no water will intrude. That's one. Two, that cowl needs repair so water won't go inside. Instead it should drain away from the PCM and out.
I’m pretty confident in your pcm diagnosis. As soon as you opened one up I could tell. You can see the transistors for the coils are at the very bottom corner below the brown connector… exactly where water would pool up.
On my hummer h2 the fuel system control module had water intrusion the same way and it set a code but ran fine. I tried cleaning the connector with contact cleaner that itself, ended up seeping past the pins and pooling at the bottom. It was funny because the way the board was designed it would run fine going uphill but when you went downhill, the pool would shift to the front at short out the module. It was by far one of the weirdest things I’ve experienced.
Oh and of course gm had to put the module and connector directly behind the drivers front tire on the frame with the back of the connector aimed right at it! Unbelievable.
I had an very old British straight six auto, that ran on three cylinders, Lucas electric, VERY non-standard build. Prior to rebuild I ended up driving 200 MILES on the back three cylinders. In the end it was absolutely rotten wiring ( the vehicle had likely gotten soaked at some point ). In the end it got a new wiring harness had has run beautifully for years and years.
Probably gonna need cats. Unless it disabled the fuel injectors on the misfiring cylinders
PCM disabled fuel and spark on problem cylinder, Chrysler/Fiat engine controller program
I asked myself the same question. What makes 1 bank go nuts only after a few seconds? And no problem on the other? Resticted exhaust? O2 sensor? Variable CAM timing? no familiar with this brand. But if Ivan needs multiple parts to fix it. It is a real disaster😊
I would say you've found the issue AND! there should be a recall on these vans on issue of water intrusion and PCM vulnerabilities - a quick fix would be - replace PCM and find a way to shield it from water from the cowl tray...
I am wanting to say that some time ago you did some Russian repairs to one of these near your home. Seems like a delivery driver was having issues with the transmission and you "modified" the filter to get transmission fluid circulating in the transmission. These are some high quality vehicles and they are very serviceable. I think we should trade the Mercurys for some. GREAT VIDEO!
@7:48 I would suggest just placing a piece of tin or plastic (sort of umbrella idea) to cover the ECM topside, or maybe move the ECM to another location - more forward in the engine compartment.
Wow, that is a crazy Promaster! I don't think the dealer will be able to match a used Pcm, it is an EEprom job or you can use ECU hero through the OBD port, but witech alone won't do it. (I know this is true on a 2017 But not positive on a 2016.)
You are a true Мастер ! ;)
Ivan no need to split the PCM case. Drill a small hole in the case and then inject compressed air.
FIAT fix it again Tony motors ?
Last month US Supreme court ruled positively for owners on right to repair act.
Having to rely only on stealerships will hopefully end soon
Way way to much hi tech on a van .
Insane.
Russian guys names Dropoff and Pickoff gonna go bring a TAZ truck here now .
These things use the Pentastar engine, probably the same crappy electronics as a Pacifica or Dodge Journey as well.
It's not just having to rely on dealerships, it's the fact you still have to have the knowledge and know how on how to repair safely and effectively. Some people don't belong under the hood of any vehicle.
@@jdtractorman7445 Actually it does..
Certain computer flashing and scanning can only be done by stealerships..
In fact Chrysler you have to pay them to get a code to scan the ECMs now.. Others also going to do this .
I just had CAT ECM flashed and have CAT ET but can't fix my new excavator unless CAT service comes plugs in ..
Many Construction and Farm tractors now have this .
Supreme court ruled against Deere and others so soon they have to sell all diagnostic tech to owners.
Right to repair act was ignored for decades.
My first guess before we get started is that it probably just skipped a couple teeth on the front bank's cam shaft and the timing is way off now.. Lets see. :) ... It's about the only thing not fired through the parts cannon. lol
I was gonna guess a shifted reluctor ring on the affected bank.
Yes, I feel the PCM is in a fail safe mode. Why is it in the fail safe mode, maybe the PCM thinks the engine is overheating. The insterment cluster had a RED color warning light ON when the engine was cold. BUt it could be a mechanical issue like you described.
No codes though.
@@dancarney106 I don't think it would kill a whole bank in limp mode though.. Probably only limit to 2000 rpm or something like that.
My first thought was that he didn'ttry everything or the van would be running fine. I didn't hear an ECU swap on that list.
If you would have brought that Xtool that you have.. It definitely would be able to do the IMMO keys, no issues (I would think). That's one thing that Xtool is quite good at.. It can pull the pin codes from the ECU also. No need to call the dealer.
I don't think it's a key issue; it has to sync the PCM and BCM. The only tool I know that can do it through the OBD is ECU Hero. Otherwise, it's an EEPROM job, as far as I know.
Ford transit has a similar water issue, coincidentally.
ivan is the man..... diag at its best !!
Ivan is a hero to many!
Wonder if its gonna be oil pressure issue from the same issues that jeep had with the missing galley plug.
Thank you for the details.
If I pulled these connectors apart and filled the socket side with dielectric grease would I have more protection?
What are your thoughts about drilling an 1/8" hole in the bottom of the connector for a drain?
I drilled 3/16" holes in the bottom of my headlight housings and they are now condensation free.
ProMaster van running on 3 cylinders? That is at least 1 more than base factory design.
Tea, I thought vodka!!!!
Feel for small business folks who have to choose/buy a vehicle (for long term use) that the entire business is dependent upon every day for the next decade or so. Stressful and potentially very expensive. Seems like there are very few choices out there when it comes to vans - or at least very few obvious quality/reliable choices. Thanks Ivan.
Certainly here in Europe whatever badge is on the van there is very little actual choice. Many brands all sell the same vehicle and even beyond that some of the parts are still the same across different groups.
👏🏻👨🏻🔧That moment when you are not perfect,в произношении Английского языка)))
Thank you!Иван!
Diagnostic is the hardest for most.
I say that is the easier part.
Getting dirty, hot, cold, wet, burnt, cut, into the wires/rust/crevices, probing and testing, thinking, checking, that’s the real stuff!
Just like today. Diagnostic:There is no power on my stuff (cameras). The 2 Ethernet switches that provide power and connectivity to those cameras, are not on. “Not my problem!”.
But that’s not me. More than 40 minutes later, after flipping at least 40 breakers (not me, I was following tte person that knows tte most about them 4 different breaker boxes), until I/me had to figure out (who else?
then!?) and semi chase the wiring and figure out where it could come from.
I said, the wire is heading that way and 90 feet away, through 2 doors, a 5th breaker box revealed a tripped breaker, which surprises me (why did it trip? Overcurrent or short-circuit!?), but glad my 2 minute diagnostic was right (no power!), and glad “we” found the culprit.
DOCUMENTATION goes a very long way, as long as it gets updated!, but it is a pain, and almost none of the small/medium companies do it.
For the video. The Russians (as smart and handy as most are), should at least observed/figured out the water leak/intrusion!!!
When you get a new pcm programmed and verified working you should open it up and spray it with some corformal coating
Ive been watching just been to busy to comment lately. I did finally write the psi scale for the transducer and try it out a bit.
I had a new 1974 Dodge pickup truck. The engine ballast resistor was mounted in the valley under the hood where the rain would flow over it and damage the resistor to a no start.
Loads of Chrysler products of the day had issues with those resistors and none of the connectors were water tight. I used to spray 3M spray adhesive or battery terminal spray (messy) on them which helped a lot. I recall back in the 80s and 90s no start cars and trucks would come in with the male spades on the resistor completely rusted off.
PS Ivan,
Be aware if it is the same as the fiat ducato the obd is wired uniquely canbus high speed hi pin 2, lo pin 10. Canbus low speed hi pin 6, lo pin 14.
Harley Davidson sell a product for the switch the handle bars it's look clear the relays has a corrosion problem I think it mite be a good product for those pins on the computer for sure what you working on is a bad design
Boy, and I thought my old Charger had water ingress problems. At least all it did was smoke the homelink system and fill the passenger compartment with mold. 😀
Was calling the greens and a spray , but the ecm shower ruled the roost
If your friend kip, has all the spares required, he should be able to swap the ecu, transponder ring, key, speedo clocks, and bcm (all the coded pieces) from another van, and it should fire up.
I've done that with a couple of gm cars, that had dead ecu's.
What a good man driving 4 hours to get pain.
good morning!
Is it possible that 2 seconds after the engine starts is when the engine transitions from open loop to closed loop?
Would the initial startup on all cylinders be because it hasn't run a full diagnostic to start shutting thing off ?
What brand scanner are you using?
Good morning
Are u using a 10:1 attenuator with your picoscope?
Hi in europe for this vehicule you need to go to BCM " special fonction " and "synchronise the all computor on the vehicule" I'm not if ti the same for you
The rain drain on the PCM it's a long story start when this body start for diesel or gaz, in europe we have a cover to put on it check on parts dealer if it's available for you
Did someone see the temp gauge falling dead when Ivan first starts the van and put the steering wheel straight?
Oh oh some parts required. 🤣🤣
Road trip to Ohio? What was second prize, two road trips to Ohio?
Commenting at about 20:00. Do many used computers for these vans have the exact same problem, like the Saab units getting cooked by engine heat? Is there really such a thing as a known good used one?
Only water intrusion kills these...
Leaky cowl causing all these problems, nuts
Wow. How can they NOT be waterproof? Regardless of the cowl, they're gonna get wet.
Oh my my a 3 cylinder disaster 😮
You would think that the PCM connectors would have better weather protection than that.
On the first start up - the temperature gauge just goes to zero as cylinders shut down... does not seem right...
Interesting that when the coils are disabled, coil current still appears to occur for the disabled plugs.
No, that's the current for the Bank 1 coils lol
I can't tell, but if the engine is transversely mounted and cylinders 2, 4, and 6 are in front, maybe those plugs were changed to the wrong type..... Question is, can we trust the DTC's about the ionization being insufficient? Does that mean the ECM doesn't think the spark occurred?
You got a point over there!
Makes you wonder
Akron, Ohio? Headquarters of Goodyear. Seems like once we get to Akron, Pennsylvania isn't too far away.
Wonder if a no parts replacement could be to bake it in a oven overnight at 250 degrees
I'm only at @16:14 you need to open the pcm .. water got inside it . Needs pcm
Also replace the connector seal
It's a pain in the butt to get a WiTech/TechAuthority account set up with Mopar, but as long as your pass-through is compatible, I do PCM replacements in the field on these more often than I'd care to think about. :)
Brand new virgin PCM or used PCM?
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Unless a shop lied to me about their source ('cause that NEVER happens! LOL), they've all been new. That being said, WiTech is pretty dang good about not restricting third parties, and you basically have dealer-level ability. ~$100 for a 3-day subscription, +$40 or so per VIN to flash modules. :)
👍
any one else want a shirt with Ivans face... saying "what the heck?".....lol
193K miles!
That pcm needs a cover to deflect the water
Those ignition waveforms, to me, were a huge red flag. Fire line sloping downward like that?
The dwelling time leads me to believe the ecm or module driver is faulted somehow and is not able to regulate itself. Wild guess.
I'm not sure the PCM is bad...I'd check the spark plugs first, and the compression and cam timing on that bank.
Good point because a troubled cylinder could shut down that bank, but I’m not sure 🤔
on the computer board, those look like mosfet's any chance the smoke got out?
I hate it when I lose the magic smoke.
AFM
New type of Active fuel management
Its fine 😂😂😂😂😂🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Is there a lot of demand for diagnosticians to travel that far from home base for a diagnosis?
Oh no, the dreaded multi episode 😕