@@GeneralGlockasiah Honestly combo scaling isn't really the problem, the "is it practical" problem is more by the moves you have to use to start them and the situations you've got to create to make them happen. Having a low execution option that does good damage and a high execution one that does *slightly* more is good design, in my mind, because where balance matters most execution is rarely a factor. Nerfing combo scaling reduces the kinds of characters you can have and drives the execution barrier up substantially.
@@kevingriffith6011 the reason these aren't "practical" is because his most damaging combo is a lot easier than these combos and spends no meter> they really need to buff the scaling on his ex specials so these combos are actually worth going for. But tbh his main issue is range.
@@byVariations That is the other point. I admit, I only really messed around with Kage for a short while, long enough to get a feel for his combos but not really enough to compare them to one-another. I was thinking more on the lines of "this starter is super short range, this starter is unsafe, this only works air-to-air" such like that... but having the optimal combos not be the flashy ones is kind of a bummer.
The sad part is, it's only really comboable in the corner. Otherwise, short tatsu air VT1 dash cancel into regular fireball is low enough to hit and the only way to get it to hit as far as I can tell. Unless your opponent is tall of course.
@R34 SfmCrossovers You ever try using his stand fierce as a footsie tool and buffer into roundhouse tatsu? That thing is crazy and an often forgotten tool. Has enough range to punish Zangief stand fierce from max distance.
I don’t know if Kage if necessarily better since since his main weakness is a poor neutral due to incredibly stubby buttons but damn if his combos don’t look even cooler.
The improved walk speed helps him get in a little better. And if he had good range to compliment his buttons he'd be a little too powerful. Dude's not an assault rifle, he's a shotgun. Not that dangerous at long range but once he's in your face he'll shred you.
His regular hadouken can be a decent chip poke otherwise yes, he must rely on standing forward and his walk speed to accumulate grey life. Include Daigo's strategy with closer and more difficult to read fireballs to earn meter and apply pressure or go in with some stomps to dodge low footsies.
Stubby normals is a real weakness, but I don't think every character in the game should have non-stubby normals. Rather, characters with stubby normals should have enough benefits instead to offset their weakness and make them viable. So hopefully these changes will help Kage get more screen time.
Due to ex tatsu being faster you can now late cancel cr mk into ex tatsu. This makes hit confirming cr mk easier and probably do able consistently if you're Punk. Last patch when hit confirming cr mk Kages always went for light tatsu over medium or ex tatsu because if you wanted to combo into medium or ex you had to cancel it on the first the first possible frame for it to combo properly while light tatsu had a couple of frames of leeway. With his change ex tatsu now also has this leeway.
I didn't even read the Kage patch notes before I hopped into the lab to test dive kick combos, when they worked I got so excited. Maybe Kage will still face the same problems, but dive kick combos are just so cool
Yoooo this is the video I was really waiting for, seriously thank you for all your work with all of these! Kage was one of if not the character I was most interested in from my time playing the trial version, and it's great to know he's only gotten better
I wanted something new for the neutral :( Ex hadoken comboing from max range, f.hp being -3 instead of -4 The flashy stuff is good but. Having the main neutral tool being punishable at every distance by characters like sakura is awful
this man speaks the truth. you don’t get much reward from fhp unless you have vs2 or vt1 activate and you can’t react to regular hit only crush counter. regular sthp has no range and is so situational, and for its stubbiness is negative on block. crhp has no range (albeit decent anti air) so all he has is hadoken which gives no reward and shakunetsu which is extremely jumpable. and to top it off even in the combo game the stomps can be option selected by using delay jabs.
@@zonk834 f.hp is super reactible even without crush counter. I suck and I can do it 100% of the times. Light shakunetsu isn't bad either, and the knockdown is really cool. But Kage lacks the typical "just do it" move, has zero range, doesn't have particularly rewarding v trigger activations, and has low health even though he doesn't excel at anything. He's pressure is super fun but comboing ex hado, having a negative but safe f.hp when spaced.. I think he needed quality of life buffs, rather than even flashier combos
@@JJames666male i like his changes personally. faster walk speed indirectly buffs his normals, faster ex tatsu and the juggling buffs gives so much more stuff like easier cr.mk hit confirms, insane damage from hitting tc, and like 400+ damage combos from a fireball read with vt1 vs2
I want to main Kage but there's something I've never seen anyone answer. How vital is the ability to do TK Tatus/Hadouken for him? I have a much better success rate with TK Hadouken than TK Tatsu. This execution barrier is the only thing holding me back. I have other characters I'm interested in but I want to main Kage because I was a huge Evil Ryu fan in SFIV.
Hi I'm a kage main. Tk tatsu is nowhere near needed to play kage well, neither is tk hadouken. The primary uses for it are a few of his crossup gimmicks and his 2 bar ex tatsu into tk ex tatsu, which I personally almost never use because I prefer saving for another bar for a CA ender. Tk fireball is used for his optimal 1 bar corner combo and to look cool when you predict your opponent's jump but that's about it, as the ex tk fireball buff is still incredibly situational and wastes a bar
if u cant do tk tatsu on one side it means you cant do tk hado on one side. you have to grind both sides till you get it consistent. Just practice and you can overcome the barrier
@@FJ-jw7rf TK Hadou is easier on both side. It's just QCF UF+P. Tatsu is an issue becauseit's QCB UF+K. It feels like Capcom even made TK Hadou easier so it can be used as a projectile.
I do wish Hadoken was VT Cancelable so it had more application for Kage's combos, and gave him a more plus activation route, but im not at all dissapointed with these changes, they're super sick, and help make his combos easier too.
VT01 off of his ex hadouken or ex red fireballs is doable but there are other routes for you to take advantage of for sure. You want the meter as enders to his VT1 combos I find.
i haven't followed SFV much since it's launch but i remember when Kage first released he seemed pretty weak with his stubby normals and weak specials. Now he seems like a whole new design lol
It feels like they separated his air tatsus into two moves now. While the instant air one can become a quasi anti-air, it's meant for the VT1 combos. Late tatsu on the other hand still hits hard but it sends them pretty far too. I vaguely recall the patch notes suggesting instant air ex tatsu is meant to blow up throw techs? But the only combos you can branch off of it require the corner. Needs further testing.
1000 hours into Kage so far, diamond rank. He doesn't gain anything from this patch. Prior to the patch, he was phenomenal at two things - pressure and damage. This patch gave the entire cast an answer to his pressure, and even more damage. His neutral is among the worst in the game, and he currently gets zoned out even by characters like gief and dan. Capcom even acknowledged this in the notes, but all we got was a hadoken that doesn't really help much, and walkspeed. He's extremely flawed for all but the most godlike, but still very fun. Wish he got buffs like Ryu
When reading the notes originally I thought the air fireball buff was for the non EX version as well, and got really excited. Disappointed now, though. Do you think that if his normal instant air fireball hit grounded opponents he'd have considerably better neutral?
@@marcuss4697 no lmao. Red fireball serves that function better already. He needs a normal with longer range than everything he has right now with less recovery frames. Less recovery on light red fireball would also be very helpful but would not fix him alone
@@Jadon. then, a new command normal? Cause none in his default kit even have an animation that would have enough range lol. Max range EX hadouken also needs a touch up, cause that not comboing with low forward is a real bummer. It'd be great to have a safe buffer
@@marcuss4697 ex tatsu can be single hit hit confirmed from cr mk, so ex hadoken isnt a big deal. Command normal is probably the way to go, just give him kolieen's st hp and make it combo into ex hado at max range lmao
at 1:22 How do you manage to follow crouch mp with standing hp? Is there a trick to that like some kind of queuing? Is it just 1 frame timing? I cannot combo that at all. Weirdly I'm getting the hang of all the other bits.
I guess ex air fireball can throw bait now.... I feel like the focus on these buffs was to enhance his glass canon archetype and put more emphasis on the *canon* part. But not sure how these changes really affect him. Maybe the extra damage will end up making up for a lackluster footsie game, but we'll have to see if the concept of him having trouble to get in, is rewarded with once he gets in he hits hard and makes up for it.
He's probably gonna jump in a million times now, get AAed 10 times, and then lands the jump 2 times, and does a big ol massive 400 dmg smack down twice and then footsy the rest xD, and thats if he doesnt die before he can do that.,
His combos look cooler but he's still basically the same. The ex tatsu buff is ok but you still don't get oki after you do from it or from any dp for that matter. Not getting oki for an upclose character will never put it at top tier. The only way you get oki is if you don't do dp after tatsu
@@Jadon. no he doesn't get true oki from it. The only way you kinda get oki is if you micro walk and then hp dp after an ex tatsu. Doing dash and then hp dp after ex tatsu won't give you oki.
That's not true oki. You can't reach the opponent when they backrise to throw. You have to microstep after hp dp after ex tatsu and hp dp for it to be oki but that is negative frames already. Just naming advantage on wakeup doesn't make it oki
Kage is weird. I don't like his design, and the fact they should have just put Evil Ryu in the game over him. He is def unique among the shotos and his air combos are so cool and flashy. But he feels awkward at times to play when I tried to main him. idk what I would do to buff him without risk of him becoming OP. 25 more health, a regular ground fireball (keep his air fireball the same), better range pokes that don't have the best hit confirms? idk. If I want to play a glass cannon shoto, Id rather pick Akuma. And for shotos in gen, Ive been loving Dan.
Why is every single fighting game trying to be fucking marvel now? These combos are so out of place in Street Fighter. Tatsu air juggles for days? Get this crap out of here.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
Kage combos in a nutshell: "Wow, that combo looks sick. Is it practical?" "Well. No. But it looks *really cool!*"
That's how it's always been with Evil Ryu. I would like if the scaling was changed in SF6.
@@GeneralGlockasiah Honestly combo scaling isn't really the problem, the "is it practical" problem is more by the moves you have to use to start them and the situations you've got to create to make them happen. Having a low execution option that does good damage and a high execution one that does *slightly* more is good design, in my mind, because where balance matters most execution is rarely a factor. Nerfing combo scaling reduces the kinds of characters you can have and drives the execution barrier up substantially.
@@kevingriffith6011 the reason these aren't "practical" is because his most damaging combo is a lot easier than these combos and spends no meter> they really need to buff the scaling on his ex specials so these combos are actually worth going for. But tbh his main issue is range.
@@byVariations That is the other point. I admit, I only really messed around with Kage for a short while, long enough to get a feel for his combos but not really enough to compare them to one-another. I was thinking more on the lines of "this starter is super short range, this starter is unsafe, this only works air-to-air" such like that... but having the optimal combos not be the flashy ones is kind of a bummer.
Sounds like Trunks players
Kage players: better neutral and less stubby buttons please
Capcom: EX AIR FIREBALL
The sad part is, it's only really comboable in the corner. Otherwise, short tatsu air VT1 dash cancel into regular fireball is low enough to hit and the only way to get it to hit as far as I can tell. Unless your opponent is tall of course.
Improve walk speed is part of good neutral. He can get his pokes in easier because of that
@R34 SfmCrossovers You ever try using his stand fierce as a footsie tool and buffer into roundhouse tatsu? That thing is crazy and an often forgotten tool. Has enough range to punish Zangief stand fierce from max distance.
my man went up a rank in the middle of this video
Kage almost feels like he doesn't belong in this game lol
Boi is hanging out in the air like a DBFZ or GG character
what does gg mean in this context?
@@naluthemarblepillar6451 Guilty Gear
@@tron0150 oh yeah that makes sense thanks
Just give him an air dash and walla
His combo capability is almost satanic 😉
I don’t know if Kage if necessarily better since since his main weakness is a poor neutral due to incredibly stubby buttons but damn if his combos don’t look even cooler.
The improved walk speed helps him get in a little better. And if he had good range to compliment his buttons he'd be a little too powerful. Dude's not an assault rifle, he's a shotgun. Not that dangerous at long range but once he's in your face he'll shred you.
Improved walk speed helps. His trade off for stubby buttons is insane damage output. It’s like Evil Ryu in USF4.
His regular hadouken can be a decent chip poke otherwise yes, he must rely on standing forward and his walk speed to accumulate grey life. Include Daigo's strategy with closer and more difficult to read fireballs to earn meter and apply pressure or go in with some stomps to dodge low footsies.
@@Toomnyusernae reg hadoken more reliable mid range now too because of hurtbox reduction on hands
Stubby normals is a real weakness, but I don't think every character in the game should have non-stubby normals. Rather, characters with stubby normals should have enough benefits instead to offset their weakness and make them viable. So hopefully these changes will help Kage get more screen time.
Shin Dan is an anime character now.
0:02 " *It looks subtle but you can definitely feel it.* "
That's what she said !
I swear kage can just do whatever combo he wants and it will work. What a sick fucking character, I'm so glad they're buffing him
0:47 I like this combo but it has some weird timing I have to learn
This is the most SF content I have watched ever
I will use every single resource I have to style.
Due to ex tatsu being faster you can now late cancel cr mk into ex tatsu. This makes hit confirming cr mk easier and probably do able consistently if you're Punk.
Last patch when hit confirming cr mk Kages always went for light tatsu over medium or ex tatsu because if you wanted to combo into medium or ex you had to cancel it on the first the first possible frame for it to combo properly while light tatsu had a couple of frames of leeway. With his change ex tatsu now also has this leeway.
Kage is my favorite guilty gear character
Home or da room or da ribingu room.
KAGE!
just buffed some random stuff but not the way to get to it
This is the TRUE power of the Satsui No Hadou 💥
I didn't even read the Kage patch notes before I hopped into the lab to test dive kick combos, when they worked I got so excited. Maybe Kage will still face the same problems, but dive kick combos are just so cool
Yoooo this is the video I was really waiting for, seriously thank you for all your work with all of these! Kage was one of if not the character I was most interested in from my time playing the trial version, and it's great to know he's only gotten better
These combos are ridiculously sick lol
Did you lab this in the home, the room, or the living room?
KAGE!
He labbed it in the lab
I wanted something new for the neutral :(
Ex hadoken comboing from max range, f.hp being -3 instead of -4
The flashy stuff is good but.
Having the main neutral tool being punishable at every distance by characters like sakura is awful
yeah ex hado still sucks :(
this man speaks the truth.
you don’t get much reward from fhp unless you have vs2 or vt1 activate and you can’t react to regular hit only crush counter.
regular sthp has no range and is so situational, and for its stubbiness is negative on block.
crhp has no range (albeit decent anti air) so all he has is hadoken which gives no reward and shakunetsu which is extremely jumpable.
and to top it off even in the combo game the stomps can be option selected by using delay jabs.
@@zonk834 f.hp is super reactible even without crush counter. I suck and I can do it 100% of the times.
Light shakunetsu isn't bad either, and the knockdown is really cool.
But Kage lacks the typical "just do it" move, has zero range, doesn't have particularly rewarding v trigger activations, and has low health even though he doesn't excel at anything.
He's pressure is super fun but comboing ex hado, having a negative but safe f.hp when spaced.. I think he needed quality of life buffs, rather than even flashier combos
@@JJames666male i like his changes personally. faster walk speed indirectly buffs his normals, faster ex tatsu and the juggling buffs gives so much more stuff like easier cr.mk hit confirms, insane damage from hitting tc, and like 400+ damage combos from a fireball read with vt1 vs2
@@JJames666male but I was hoping so much for a f.hp buff or a hado range buff that would have made this the perfect patch
I want to main Kage but there's something I've never seen anyone answer. How vital is the ability to do TK Tatus/Hadouken for him? I have a much better success rate with TK Hadouken than TK Tatsu. This execution barrier is the only thing holding me back. I have other characters I'm interested in but I want to main Kage because I was a huge Evil Ryu fan in SFIV.
Hi I'm a kage main. Tk tatsu is nowhere near needed to play kage well, neither is tk hadouken. The primary uses for it are a few of his crossup gimmicks and his 2 bar ex tatsu into tk ex tatsu, which I personally almost never use because I prefer saving for another bar for a CA ender. Tk fireball is used for his optimal 1 bar corner combo and to look cool when you predict your opponent's jump but that's about it, as the ex tk fireball buff is still incredibly situational and wastes a bar
Tk fireball is used for his optimal corner combo, tk tatsu is niche. Kage really doesn't require either, you can play him just fine without them.
if u cant do tk tatsu on one side it means you cant do tk hado on one side. you have to grind both sides till you get it consistent. Just practice and you can overcome the barrier
@@FJ-jw7rf TK Hadou is easier on both side. It's just QCF UF+P. Tatsu is an issue becauseit's QCB UF+K. It feels like Capcom even made TK Hadou easier so it can be used as a projectile.
@@Butterfree_hater Alright. Gonna pick up Kage then. Thanks.
Kage is now a proper anime fighter with all the air combos
First video I've seen where you genuinely sound confused about a change or two
I do wish Hadoken was VT Cancelable so it had more application for Kage's combos, and gave him a more plus activation route, but im not at all dissapointed with these changes, they're super sick, and help make his combos easier too.
VT01 off of his ex hadouken or ex red fireballs is doable but there are other routes for you to take advantage of for sure. You want the meter as enders to his VT1 combos I find.
Yep, but it's a shame he doesnt have an activation special that leaves the opponent grounded, or that's meterless
@@Eddiegames9 VT2 gets it off the stomp if I recall? But yeah, we're limited with our special / ex cancel routes into VT01. It's not all bad though.
Vt2 makes it cancellable
This is good.
i haven't followed SFV much since it's launch but i remember when Kage first released he seemed pretty weak with his stubby normals and weak specials. Now he seems like a whole new design lol
It feels like they separated his air tatsus into two moves now. While the instant air one can become a quasi anti-air, it's meant for the VT1 combos. Late tatsu on the other hand still hits hard but it sends them pretty far too. I vaguely recall the patch notes suggesting instant air ex tatsu is meant to blow up throw techs? But the only combos you can branch off of it require the corner. Needs further testing.
in the home or the room
1000 hours into Kage so far, diamond rank. He doesn't gain anything from this patch. Prior to the patch, he was phenomenal at two things - pressure and damage. This patch gave the entire cast an answer to his pressure, and even more damage. His neutral is among the worst in the game, and he currently gets zoned out even by characters like gief and dan. Capcom even acknowledged this in the notes, but all we got was a hadoken that doesn't really help much, and walkspeed. He's extremely flawed for all but the most godlike, but still very fun. Wish he got buffs like Ryu
When reading the notes originally I thought the air fireball buff was for the non EX version as well, and got really excited. Disappointed now, though. Do you think that if his normal instant air fireball hit grounded opponents he'd have considerably better neutral?
@@marcuss4697 no lmao. Red fireball serves that function better already. He needs a normal with longer range than everything he has right now with less recovery frames. Less recovery on light red fireball would also be very helpful but would not fix him alone
@@Jadon. then, a new command normal? Cause none in his default kit even have an animation that would have enough range lol. Max range EX hadouken also needs a touch up, cause that not comboing with low forward is a real bummer. It'd be great to have a safe buffer
@@marcuss4697 ex tatsu can be single hit hit confirmed from cr mk, so ex hadoken isnt a big deal. Command normal is probably the way to go, just give him kolieen's st hp and make it combo into ex hado at max range lmao
capcom making already easy links like tatsu dp even easier really feels like an odd choice
I haven't played SFV and am not a really technical player, but Kage seems like a Jr. MvC character. Is that accurate?
Sorta. He spends a lotta time in the air and he has long flashy combos so, maybe a little. Except his buttons are really stubby lol
at 1:22 How do you manage to follow crouch mp with standing hp? Is there a trick to that like some kind of queuing? Is it just 1 frame timing? I cannot combo that at all. Weirdly I'm getting the hang of all the other bits.
You probably need the spacing to be tighter
@@koi689 thanks. Since then I've seen a few "point blank" statements. Perhaps I've been at "nearly point blank".
The spacing is a bit tight but you can get crouch mp to stand hp very easily
I guess ex air fireball can throw bait now....
I feel like the focus on these buffs was to enhance his glass canon archetype and put more emphasis on the *canon* part.
But not sure how these changes really affect him. Maybe the extra damage will end up making up for a lackluster footsie game, but we'll have to see if the concept of him having trouble to get in, is rewarded with once he gets in he hits hard and makes up for it.
The only way to fix Kage is to put him in Fortnite.
oh boy.
You could actually hit TK tatsu after EX in the past seasons as well.
It was very inconsistent and only worked about halfway between midscreen and the corner. There were certain spots in the stage where it didn't work
I only recently started learning kage and I’m glad I waited I would not have liked this character that much if not for the fun ex tatsu combos
I guess we playing dbfz now
Kage mains hope this is DBFZ to at least have superdash lol
Do you use a fight stick or a controller
He's probably gonna jump in a million times now, get AAed 10 times, and then lands the jump 2 times, and does a big ol massive 400 dmg smack down twice and then footsy the rest xD, and thats if he doesnt die before he can do that.,
Kage cool but ryu really did get the long straw by the looks
The ex tatsu is definitely the best buff
This is really light buffs compared to the other characters. Kage might suck even more now with v shift And low tier characters getting big buffs
His combos look cooler but he's still basically the same. The ex tatsu buff is ok but you still don't get oki after you do from it or from any dp for that matter. Not getting oki for an upclose character will never put it at top tier. The only way you get oki is if you don't do dp after tatsu
H dp has oki
@@Jadon. no he doesn't get true oki from it. The only way you kinda get oki is if you micro walk and then hp dp after an ex tatsu. Doing dash and then hp dp after ex tatsu won't give you oki.
@@PrettyboyPa +4 on quickstand, +9 on backroll? You do get Oki, and you should never be dashing anyways.
That's not true oki. You can't reach the opponent when they backrise to throw. You have to microstep after hp dp after ex tatsu and hp dp for it to be oki but that is negative frames already. Just naming advantage on wakeup doesn't make it oki
Who hits the hardest in this game?
Uhh, Abigail, Honda, Birdie all come to mind.
@@Bafael Thanks. I look forward into practicing with them then. 😁
Yesssssßsssssssas
Kage is weird. I don't like his design, and the fact they should have just put Evil Ryu in the game over him.
He is def unique among the shotos and his air combos are so cool and flashy.
But he feels awkward at times to play when I tried to main him.
idk what I would do to buff him without risk of him becoming OP. 25 more health, a regular ground fireball (keep his air fireball the same), better range pokes that don't have the best hit confirms? idk.
If I want to play a glass cannon shoto, Id rather pick Akuma.
And for shotos in gen, Ive been loving Dan.
Hope the st. hk fast for 1 frame, cos to slow and useless
Some as f. hp too, fast 1 frame and ob+
I like more skill 1.
All these buffs and nerfs of the cast for better balance is making me cream more than my uncle ever could! 😩
Early
Sfv doods out here like "nO nUeTrAl" i literally mained oni in sf4. Hold my beer.
Oni was fucking great dude
Oni had buttons tho.
@@scottyj8655 Everyone has buttons
oni's were just ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@Fizz-Q Oni still had pokes and some range on his moves, kage doesn't
Why is every single fighting game trying to be fucking marvel now?
These combos are so out of place in Street Fighter. Tatsu air juggles for days?
Get this crap out of here.
Im so tired of the weeb characters