Somewhere in Oregon: *Paul Harrell randomly looks up from what he's doing and says* Remington Green & Yellow Box 12 Gauge 2-3/4" 00 Buckshot 9 Pellets *Goes back to work*
As a general rule I stay away from anything marketed as "for law enforcement" or "military grade". I was in the USAF and know enough cops to know better.
I never realized the wad could help dampen the recoil. Good to learn. Cool hearing you guys talk about Paul. He was one of my favorite educational channels along with you guys.
Thanks for all your view and for all your good natured humour. I hope that you all and your respective families keep safe during these troubled times, especially Officer Greg undertaking his valuable necessary public duty, his sarcastic humour is amazing and almost as good as some of us Brits. God bless keep safe and well.
Former Small arms instructor for a Federal Agency. Back in the 80's and 90's, in fact up to the turn of the century, we shot Federal 00 Buck. There was almost always a "flyer" that sometimes was on the paper, but not on the target. At other times it wasn't even on the target backer. We didn't have that problem with other manf. ammo.
4:19. The rationale behind the incorrect spelling is so they can trademark it and other people can't use it. Using the correct spelling word, they wouldn't be able to get a trademark and anyone out there could use it.
That's where you are wrong, we live in a hyper-capitalist society now and companies like british Sky can trademark words from the English language. Microsoft was sued by Sky and had to change the name of their SkyDrive to OneDrive because Sky literally owns this word. We are nothing but a number to these companies, if they want to they will take everything you own in one lawsuit which you will never win.
Has anyone cut open a flite control 00 buckshot shell? I heard there was only 8 pellets in there. I like the pattern I get from the 2¾ Remington 000 buck out of my Cooey model 840 ... 30" barrel the Remington #4 birdshot is by far my favorite combined with that old Cooey, it really reaches
@@johnny-james federal makes both a 9pellet and 8pellet flite control 00 version. The 8pellet version holds a better pattern with the 2 per row stack, compared to the 9pellet 3 per row stack. Difficult to find the 8pellet stuff, grab it fast whenever you see it. I use 27 pellet 4buck for home defense, it's devastating at 10-15yards.
@@blacktoastmcbiscut8650 from all my tests I find Rio brand 4buck patterns the best out of my Maverick 88 security model, I can keep all 27 on a torso at 15 yards. And it's less expensive than most. 1buck would be my second choice for homeDefense. Cheers.
Hell Yeah ! I've been asking this for this for ages. Jeff can supply the high speed camera and some exotic specialty rounds that Paul could test with different barrel lengths against the meat target.
One can only imagine the back and forth between OG and Paul and Danny destroying a meat target. This would be EPIC. I don't care if we have to raise money for both channels this needs to happen...
I tested some Hornady Varmint Express shells. 24 pellets of # 4 Buck in a special wad. #4 might seem a bit small to some people. I was impressed with the tightness and consistency of the groups though.
@Travis Thacker right on. I did some looking around on Ballistic Products' site. I'll definite try some reloads when they're get the plated shot back in-stock.
@Capt. Ned Yes!!! Traditional 00 is a terrible performer at range. I use a 20 " Mossberg 500 with a screw in extra full choke. I can absolutely hammer a coyote at 40 yards with traditional 2 3/4 No.4 buck. They don't get up and run and I expect that most men wouldn't either. I've see 00 fail in the field far too often with sometimes tragic results. I will admit that this particular video really opened my eyes to that Federal Flight control load. That's impressive!
@Travis Thacker Depending on the state and across countries there can be restrictions that slugs are only to be used to take down doors. In some countries it's illegal to use slugs against humans in some it's illegal to hunt with them, in others it's the only shotgun load allowed to hunt big game with cause thy set a minimum speed of a certain weight. In other jurisdictions they're allowed for hunting but looked down upon cause they're said to cause a lot of meat damage (I can't confirm that, I just heard that as a reasoning). In some countries it is seen as a war crime to use shotgun slugs against people. People use whatever their restrictions allow. It's a lot easier to have a hunting ammo around instead of explaining why the r.i.p. zombie-killer 3000 was used against the misunderstood knife wielding burglar.
Good and informative video. I am debating on 00 buck, and with the distances in my house, flitecontrol is not needed. Thank you for your contributions to the shooting knowledge base.
The spread also depends on the barrel. A rifled barrel will spin the shot and make it fly apart more. Also shorter barrels will increase the spread. Demo ranch did a video on it years ago. Great video guys!
At the end officer Greg says the flight control is what you want across a living room distance. I contend that across a living room or inside a house distance any of the double Ott will work the advantage of the flight control comes into play in the 10 to 30 yard distance. Change my mind!
You know, your channel is what got me into hand loading my own 12ga shells. I haven't done anything crazy yet like gummy bears or bubble gum, but I'm certainly enjoying the savings! Made about 400 shells so far! I've owned my shotgun for less than a year. Mossberg 500 FLEX, 12ga with 28" hunting barrel setup. Recoils about as soft as my 5.56 AR-15, and I love shooting clays at the range! Keep doing what you guys are doing, and I hope you inspire more people to explore the world of shotguns!
In my opinion, buckshot has always had more recoil than slugs or at least over all the factory stuff I've shot. I reload 12ga, 8 pellet, 36cal buck that I cast from a Lee mold, (usually over Longshot & a regular cushion wad) & them jokers kick like a mule. I like gettin my friends who don't know any better to shoot 'em from my old break barrel 💥🤕 Watching the look on their faces... HA! Priceless 😂👍 I been waitin for a good buckshot video. Great slow mo footage guys, thanks a bunch! Keep it up!!!
I've been hand loading buckshot, tested 12 gauge 3 inch magnum 18 pellet 00 buck earlier at the range through a full choke. Kicked like a mule but patterned tight at 26 yards.
@@steveshoemaker6347, yep, I'm lying. Just took video cutting a shell apart and since I can't do so on here I'm sending it directly to Jeff on fb messenger. Nice try making look bad though dick.
I can answer the opening question as far as the NYPD goes at least. For 9mm, NYPD uses "SpeerLE Gold Dot Duty Ammuition 9mm Luger+P 124 Gr. GDHP" product number 53617. As far as 12 gauge goes, they have (or will shortly) switched to slugs. I do not have a box of those, but the buckshot they were using was " Federal Premium Law Enforcement 12GA 2¾ IN Buckshot Maximum 9 Pellets - 00 Buck with Flightcontrol Wad" product number LE127 00
“Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. Eat leaden death, demon...” ― Terry Pratchett
First thing : Switch that owl to decaf . Many of use keep shotguns for home defence . This information is vital . Unintended damage to people and property has serious consequences. I keep my shotgun loaded with the first two rounds being rubber ball type. The next three are 00 buck . I will have to rethink my choice of brand . Being a larger person recoil is not an issue . Being a fan of root canal, recoil is kind of enjoyable . That may be too much too share . 🤔😁
@Rich S , Thanks , you're right , not only should you check state and local laws , but in liberal areas , juries may rule against you even if less than legal is allowed . Being a former New Yorker, know exactly what you are referring to . Living in the much more realistic state of Arizona, our laws and courts tend to be more logic based . Then again we do have Tucson and the University of Arizona , one step away from full blown socialism. Thank for expressing concern .
@@45CaliberCure , When less than lethal shotgun rounds first became available to the public , l was working for Mandalls shooting supply here in Scottsdale Az. We tested some on a sandbag 15' into the tube. Sand will give you more chance of bounce back than a human body . Our results were pure supposition , as l couldn't talk any of the guys to allow me to test it on them . Come on guys , it's non lethal . Wimps . No , no , l didn't volunteer because of the six pack stomach under my shirt . It would have damaged the beer cans .
@@richardpalmer6196 i figure at that point you're better off using birdshot instead. i mean in most places you are supposed to stop using force when the invader retreats, so if you hit him with a rubber ball, chances are the dude gets away and continues to be a threat to other people. you hit him with bird shot you're still probably not killing him, but he's going to be leaving blood behind and he's probably also going to visit a hospital to get the lead pieces dug out of him, giving the cops a chance to actually track the guy down.
@@windhelmguard5295 , You appear to be well aware off what is in the law of most localities . You can not use lethal force when the threat is over . My use of less than lethal rounds in my shotgun is strictly for the purpose of confrontational situations. If the threat is leaving l have accomplished my intentions. If the threat remains l will use less than lethal force. If the threat remains after that l have two situations on my hands . Either this is one seriously bad individual , or one so stupid that they need to be removed from the gene pool. Can't allow stupid to breed . Boy was that was politically incorrect ! If the threat still continues after the buckshot, l'm dealing with a zombie , and am in serious doodoo . All in all it comes down to understanding legalities of your locale . This is the main reason l disagree with my state changing to the no permit needed for concealed carry. When you applied for a ccw permit previously in Arizona, you had to pass a class which included understanding the laws that applied to the use of deadly force . Now anyone can carry concealed without full knowledge of the law. That in my opinion puts the Individual that carrys and the public at risk . For the individual , it can put them in a legal battle after a confrontation . For the public , there is always a danger when an untrained person is carrying a firearm . Training is vital in so many ways .
DAMN! That Winchester load almost had a PERFECTLY symmetrical spread pattern across the X axis! That definitely scratched my OCD itch hahaha! What’re the chances of that?! Great video as always, much love from Texas!
Yeah , but the shot pattern had a big hole in the center where the vital organs are . Paul Harrell's meat target would have shown alot of damage to the ribs and covering flesh but little damage to the citrus lung material .
There is also 15 pellet 3 inch 00 buckshot shells. I havent had the chance to try them out yet. I have a few boxes of regular 9 pellet and flitecontrol. They perform great.
I do appreciate your demonstrations and your humor. I do wonder about some of the premises though. A pattern at 20 yards is only 10 feet short of the length of my house from front to back! It will take some serendipity to get a clear shot at a bad guy from my bathroom through my bedroom and the kitchen and the living room to my front door. Guess i could remodel to get all the doorways to line up, or just buy a bigger house!!! Thanks for the show!
I wonder how Flitecontrol would do in a 12 ga. AR rifle? Would the semi auto action soften the recoil enough to make it kick less enough to make it easier to shoot?
Fed FC 9 pellet is the stuff at 20 to 25. It's a shame you can't get 8 pellet any more. If you watch lucky gunner, they say the 8 works better than the 9 ( tighter pattern) . Really great video guys. Keep up the good work.
00 buck at 20 yards is absolutely deadly. at 50 yards it becomes a crap shoot,, unless you use a very tight choke and a slightly under-powered loading. High speed rounds through a tight choke often produces a wider pattern than slower ones. Not sure why, but it happens.
Extended ported chokes can really work wonders as well for keeping 00 buck patterns tight. With my M4 and a ported extended full choke I've gotten 8" patterns with milsurp 00 buck at 25 yards. For folks that don't know, ported chokes aren't for reducing recoil, they help strip the wad off the shot to keep it from disturbing the pattern. It's a lot cheaper to buy a good choke than buy hundreds of rounds of flitecontrol.
When in doubt, up the pellet size! I started using 000 buck. Only one less pellet but noticeably bigger holes. Still have tons of 00 though. It all works.
A shotgun may be a sniper rifle if it meets the following conditions. 1 you are firing a shell with a single projectile 2 there is a rifled choke or rifled barrel 3 your target is over 100m away 4 you manage to hit the target where you are aiming. good luck pulling that off.
You have tested a number of different 12GA shotgun loads, but never Hornady 12GA TAP loads. I've found them to be a tighter pattern then most 00 buck loads and about a 5" spread at 25 yards. For LEO use this pattern is a good compromise. Thanks for making great videos.
I know a long barrel isn't practical for home defense,but I have a coast to coast master mag 12 ga 30 inch fixed full choke barrel that will take a number 4 buck 3" 41 pellets and put 30 to 37 pellets in a 12 inch circle at 120 yards
You guys get monetized again??? There were 4 ads when I was watching so I hope you guys are getting paid at least! Love your videos, never give up, man!
My 12 ga is loaded with #8 bird shot as the most likely the reason for grabbing the shotgun is snakes around here. We have timber rattlers, copperheads, along with a couple other not so nice species... (the UPS man ran over our 7' black snake that used to keep the bad ones away plus controlled the mice population too... dangit!!!) After the bird shot comes 00Buck then a slug for "other than snake problems" ;-) Excellent video sir... as usual!!!
Awesome intro (LOL!) and a very interesting and informative video. Loved it!!! Keep up with all that recoil and keep having fun... can't wait to see the next video! :)
As far as I'm concerned the Flight Control wad is the biggest advancement in shotgun technology in history. I don't find them to kick any harder either myself. There are different loads and you must have had the more powerful of the two as I find the low recoil load very pleasant to shoot. My vote for the best twelve gauge load ever has to go to the fifteen pellet of number one buck Flight Control Load. Very hard to get ahold of but well worth it when you do. Product number is LE132-1B. I don't know when or why the standard for buckshot became how it patterns in your kitchen? ALL buckshot will pattern tight at four or five yards but I'd rather have to ability to still have a useful round out to fitty or sixty yards and Flight Control makes that possible.
I remember when we first got some Hornady Law Enforcement OO buck to try, back in the 90's if I recall right. They actually had two loadings, one for pumps and one with a little more oomph for autoloaders. When we took them to the range I thought it was a fluke, or that some of the pellets had missed. It was amazing to see a fist-sized group at 25 yards. Hornady were the first to go with what became the flight control wad. I'm not sure, but I think they may have been the first to develop a low recoil 00 buck round. When I went through the academy, and for years afterward, all I ever heard was "you have to aim at their belt buckle to hit them in the chest" and "OO buck spreads one inch for every yard." We actually had a situation where the officers were armed with 870's (late 80's, before we got patrol rifles) and the bad guy was waving his rifle around. I asked why they didn't shoot at him and was told they weren't sure they would hit him at that distance (25 yards) and didn't want to give away their concealed positions. I made sure we did more shotgun training after that.
Buckshot is a numbers game. 00-9 .33" balls. We always used #1 buck, 16-.30" balls. For deer. And a tight grouping kind of defeats the purpose of a " riot gun" barrel.
a shotgun is a very unique self defense weapon and it needs to be remembered that with a good shot you may have a few misses and with a bad shot you may have a few hits. we have shot it out to 100 yards and have been surprised at the hits acquired at that range.
Great info guys, who would have guessed? I mean for those times when you want the biggest smack, good to know what your options are. OG where did you get the shirt?
Really absurd how hard it is to find #1 buck loads, since they've been shown to be more effective at that FBI 7 yd distance we all hear so much about...
Taofledermaus, I have to correct you on something. The wadding cushioning is NOT there to reduce recoil. It is to reduce the deformation of the pellets caused by sudden acceleration. The lack of pellets stringing is what is causing the increase in recoil and the tighter pellet groups. When a shotgun is fired the pellets at the front in most cases are accelerated first, which means they are moving faster followed by the pellets at the bottom of the wadding which are moving slower. Such groups can string out to around 18 feet or so. The effect of increased recoil of the flight control rounds is the same effect as though you are firing a slug. The stringing effect is really apparent with bird shot.
Nice video guys👍 I reload my own buckshot and can tell you all it's hard to beat the Federal Flight Control buckshot for tight patterns but for hunting nickel plated buckshot pellets have better penetration on deer.
@Rich S Check out house prices in Westminster, Harrogate, Middlesbrough, Darlington and Stirling. 20 yards is beyond the dreams of many people on this island now.
@@joejoelesh1197 idk what that is my house is 3700sq ft living room is about 25 ft x 20 so this round is perfect 😆 ... 😔 they're also sold out cant find them anywhere!
I shot so many different slugs with my smooth barrel 500...finally I found the cheapest at the time, brenneke KO slugs were basically sniper rounds in my shotgun. No real reason to bring this up...just made me remember shooting it at 100 yard targets. I miss the $1.99 price. :(
THAT FLITE CONTROL ROUND SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD BE A GREAT HUNTING ROUND .I WONDER WHAT KIND OF PATTERN IT WOULD HAVE AT DISTANCES OF 50+ YARDS ? AWESOME VIDEO AS ALWAYS GOD BLESS YOU AND YOU LOVED ONES O.G. THANK YOU AND ALL THE MEN AND WOMEN IN BLUE ,GOD BLESS ALL OF YOU GODSPEED
Not trying to say anything bad about OG. I'm sure he's a great cop. At the same time, there's a lot of cops that act pleasant when they're out of uniform and are terrible when they're on the job. Please keep that in mind. But OG, you seem to be a great dude and I hope you're still a great dude on the job.
Thanks Ryan. Most cops are good. We do this job to help people and keep our towns safe. There are a very FEW who are bad. We work to get rid of them. Anyone who tells you there are a LOT of bad cops doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
@@OGsDangerShow let's be honest, though. ONE bad cop is too many. And judging by the behavior of several entire departments, the bad cops are running those.
Nice! I have a bunch of Hornady low recoil TAP 8 pellet 00 buck and it performs just like the Flitecontrol here out of my 18" 870, amazing stuff. I like #1 buck for HD though, less penetration, 16 wound channels and a bit more spread...but my house is small, I couldn't even get a 10yd shot inside.
9 and 8 pellet seems to be best. But if I had to pick one it would be 8 pellet. Not to mention less recoil allows for faster follow up shots when shooting multiple targets.
My friend who is now retired had to buy a special buckshot load when he was going through academy, I believe it was 8 shot . Like college when you take a class and the teacher tells you you need to buy their book that they wrote for the class. You do what you need to do to get through the class. And never need those loads again. Or book for that matter.
like 00 buck or higher because i want to be for sure I put the thug down. Whether they are the meat-eater variety or vegan; 120 pounder to gorilla-sized at 400. I want to make sure they go down in one shot. Now there is a risk of turning their heads into wall pizza or spaghetti and sausage special spilling out of their tummy sack but hey. Better them then me. I got a family to protect.
My favorite is a 7 pellet 0000 buckshot in my 12ga. Fewer pellets, but each just slightly smaller than a .45 bullet. Edit: Ok, I'll look at the flitecontrol buckshot. That's impressive
I did the math based on the specified diameter of the pellets and the density of lead - 00 with 9 pellets will result in 40.9 grams of lead, where as 0 with 12 pellets will only result in 38.4 grams of lead.
My preferred recoil solution: Federal Premium Law Enforcement *Reduced Recoil* 132-00. That's a 2-3/4" shell with 9 pellets of 00 buckshot, with the famous FliteControl wad for ultra tight groups, leaving the muzzle at an advertised 1145 fps instead of the more typical full power 1325 fps or greater as from most factory 9 pellet 00 loads. All of the factors that make this ideal for city police work in crowded urban areas make it ideal for typical close range home defense use. Reduced recoil doesn't needlessly aggravate the bursitis in my right shoulder - I can actually _enjoy_ shooting these instead of dreading it with my lightweight little Mossberg 500 with 18.5" cylinder bore (no choke) security barrel, and still get nice tight groups much as per shown in your video (just at lower but still tremendously effective velocities for out to perhaps 30 yards or so, _preferably less as otherwise it may be hard to explain to a judge_). I keep an ammo bandoleer that holds 56 of these reduced recoil rounds hanging conveniently near the shotgun, as I do not like weighing down and cluttering up the shotgun itself.... www.ammunitiondepot.com/949-federal-premium-12-ga-reduced-recoil-2-3-4-9-pellet-flitecontrol-00-buck-shot.html
I really like the federal flitecontrole. But I find they work very well in a more open choke. I was very surprised in my experience that they did not perform well out of a full choke gun. My favourite buckshot load in my defensive shot guns is the Remington 000 2 3/4 load with 8 pellets. It has always shot very tight patterns at the distances I would consider using buckshot.
My agency uses the flight control. It sucks when you qualify and they count the pellets on target and its out of your control the spread of the pellets. The flight control changed all that.
There were 9 pellets on that last shot. Two pellets in the bottom right hand corner line up perfectly as they pass into the white of the target. Before that you can see them beginning to line up, it's just harder to identify because of the background
Paul wasn't the main proponent of the "9th pellet is a flier" theory; the topic came up, he did some testing, and as I recall the result was "you be the judge" because it wasn't clear cut. Sometimes it was, sometimes it wasn't. It's the guy from Lucky Gunner who really pushed the "9th pellet is a flier" concept.
Somewhere in Oregon: *Paul Harrell randomly looks up from what he's doing and says* Remington Green & Yellow Box 12 Gauge 2-3/4" 00 Buckshot 9 Pellets *Goes back to work*
That's a Terry Pratchett joke. 👍
need to ask Backyard Ballistics
erg0centric highly under rated channel. I absolutely love that Italian genius.
Lololol
@@CS-zn6pp nice one 👍👌✌️ Terry Pratchett some bloody funny stuff
"That is wide AF" said in the most dad-like voice ever. I love this channel.
😎👍
L O L
As a general rule I stay away from anything marketed as "for law enforcement" or "military grade". I was in the USAF and know enough cops to know better.
Made by lowest bidder!
@@ScottKenny1978 and sold for the highest possible price
How many infantry does the USAF field?
Yeah I won't buy anything "military grade" anymore now that I'm out of the army
I bought the same stuff cuz it was cheap. Law enforcement 12 gauge stuff is great on the farm. Critter control
I never realized the wad could help dampen the recoil. Good to learn. Cool hearing you guys talk about Paul. He was one of my favorite educational channels along with you guys.
The Flitecontrol is impressive. Great to visit you again guys :)
Thanks Lars!
Wow two of my favorite channels in the same place.
Love your work, man. :)
Thanks for all your view and for all your good natured humour. I hope that you all and your respective families keep safe during these troubled times, especially Officer Greg undertaking his valuable necessary public duty, his sarcastic humour is amazing and almost as good as some of us Brits. God bless keep safe and well.
Former Small arms instructor for a Federal Agency. Back in the 80's and 90's, in fact up to the turn of the century, we shot Federal 00 Buck. There was almost always a "flyer" that sometimes was on the paper, but not on the target. At other times it wasn't even on the target backer. We didn't have that problem with other manf. ammo.
4:19. The rationale behind the incorrect spelling is so they can trademark it and other people can't use it. Using the correct spelling word, they wouldn't be able to get a trademark and anyone out there could use it.
It's like lite beer.
That's where you are wrong, we live in a hyper-capitalist society now and companies like british Sky can trademark words from the English language. Microsoft was sued by Sky and had to change the name of their SkyDrive to OneDrive because Sky literally owns this word. We are nothing but a number to these companies, if they want to they will take everything you own in one lawsuit which you will never win.
The 9th pellet on the last flitecontrol shot was probably stuck in the wad. I learned that from watching Paul Harrell.
Has anyone cut open a flite control 00 buckshot shell? I heard there was only 8 pellets in there.
I like the pattern I get from the 2¾ Remington 000 buck out of my Cooey model 840 ... 30" barrel
the Remington #4 birdshot is by far my favorite combined with that old Cooey, it really reaches
@@johnny-james federal makes both a 9pellet and 8pellet flite control 00 version. The 8pellet version holds a better pattern with the 2 per row stack, compared to the 9pellet 3 per row stack. Difficult to find the 8pellet stuff, grab it fast whenever you see it. I use 27 pellet 4buck for home defense, it's devastating at 10-15yards.
@@MB-jg4tr
I use the same. 27 #4.
@@blacktoastmcbiscut8650 from all my tests I find Rio brand 4buck patterns the best out of my Maverick 88 security model, I can keep all 27 on a torso at 15 yards. And it's less expensive than most. 1buck would be my second choice for homeDefense. Cheers.
@@MB-jg4tr
I use the sellier bellot
The 9th Pellet Flyer isn’t just mentioned by Paul Harrell. It’s also explained by Lucky Gunner.
Btw Jeff, I think it's time we get a Taofledermaus and Paul Harrell collab video. My two favorite RUclips channels. That'd be awesome...
Hell Yeah !
I've been asking this for this for ages. Jeff can supply the high speed camera and some exotic specialty rounds that Paul could test with different barrel lengths against the meat target.
One can only imagine the back and forth between OG and Paul and Danny destroying a meat target. This would be EPIC. I don't care if we have to raise money for both channels this needs to happen...
I second that!
You be the judge.
No video gets posted, just Willem Dafoe, falling to his knees with arms outstretched, screaming:
"There was a FIREFIGHT!!!"
I tested some Hornady Varmint Express shells. 24 pellets of # 4 Buck in a special wad. #4 might seem a bit small to some people. I was impressed with the tightness and consistency of the groups though.
@Travis Thacker right on. I did some looking around on Ballistic Products' site. I'll definite try some reloads when they're get the plated shot back in-stock.
@Capt. Ned Yes!!! Traditional 00 is a terrible performer at range. I use a 20 " Mossberg 500 with a screw in extra full choke. I can absolutely hammer a coyote at 40 yards with traditional 2 3/4 No.4 buck. They don't get up and run and I expect that most men wouldn't either. I've see 00 fail in the field far too often with sometimes tragic results. I will admit that this particular video really opened my eyes to that Federal Flight control load. That's impressive!
@Travis Thacker
Depending on the state and across countries there can be restrictions that slugs are only to be used to take down doors. In some countries it's illegal to use slugs against humans in some it's illegal to hunt with them, in others it's the only shotgun load allowed to hunt big game with cause thy set a minimum speed of a certain weight. In other jurisdictions they're allowed for hunting but looked down upon cause they're said to cause a lot of meat damage (I can't confirm that, I just heard that as a reasoning). In some countries it is seen as a war crime to use shotgun slugs against people. People use whatever their restrictions allow. It's a lot easier to have a hunting ammo around instead of explaining why the r.i.p. zombie-killer 3000 was used against the misunderstood knife wielding burglar.
Good and informative video. I am debating on 00 buck, and with the distances in my house, flitecontrol is not needed. Thank you for your contributions to the shooting knowledge base.
Yeah, unless you live in a giant mansion, 10 yards is probably the max. range
That federal flight control sure is a well-made product
Putting em where you need them is the message of the day! Thanks Jeff and OG for an awesome video. You guys rock.
Thanks for watching, Larry.
The spread also depends on the barrel. A rifled barrel will spin the shot and make it fly apart more. Also shorter barrels will increase the spread. Demo ranch did a video on it years ago. Great video guys!
Head banging owl!! Jeff I almost spit out what I was eating . I haven't laughed like that since I can remember . Jeff Thanks
"Head banging owl" - That sounds like the name of one of Gregg's many fictitious bands...
At the end officer Greg says the flight control is what you want across a living room distance. I contend that across a living room or inside a house distance any of the double Ott will work the advantage of the flight control comes into play in the 10 to 30 yard distance. Change my mind!
I love you guys and Paul Harrell so to hear you guys are friends is refreshing. Good to hear there is some normalcy in the world still
You know, your channel is what got me into hand loading my own 12ga shells. I haven't done anything crazy yet like gummy bears or bubble gum, but I'm certainly enjoying the savings!
Made about 400 shells so far! I've owned my shotgun for less than a year. Mossberg 500 FLEX, 12ga with 28" hunting barrel setup. Recoils about as soft as my 5.56 AR-15, and I love shooting clays at the range!
Keep doing what you guys are doing, and I hope you inspire more people to explore the world of shotguns!
What did you need to buy in order to get into Re-Loading Spent Shells?
Great stuff Jeff!!! 🤘
In my opinion, buckshot has always had more recoil than slugs or at least over all the factory stuff I've shot. I reload 12ga, 8 pellet, 36cal buck that I cast from a Lee mold, (usually over Longshot & a regular cushion wad) & them jokers kick like a mule. I like gettin my friends who don't know any better to shoot 'em from my old break barrel 💥🤕 Watching the look on their faces... HA! Priceless 😂👍 I been waitin for a good buckshot video. Great slow mo footage guys, thanks a bunch! Keep it up!!!
I've been hand loading buckshot, tested 12 gauge 3 inch magnum 18 pellet 00 buck earlier at the range through a full choke. Kicked like a mule but patterned tight at 26 yards.
my shoulder felt uncomfortable reading that. you know the weight and fps?
@@jameskazd9951 18 pellets is gonna be like 2 oz or more. one hell of a kick out of a 3inch.
Dude you can't get 18 00 buck pellets in a 12ga shell lol You have lost your mind...You are lying big time.....!
MAD LAD
@@steveshoemaker6347, yep, I'm lying. Just took video cutting a shell apart and since I can't do so on here I'm sending it directly to Jeff on fb messenger. Nice try making look bad though dick.
I can answer the opening question as far as the NYPD goes at least.
For 9mm, NYPD uses "SpeerLE Gold Dot Duty Ammuition 9mm Luger+P 124 Gr. GDHP" product number 53617.
As far as 12 gauge goes, they have (or will shortly) switched to slugs. I do not have a box of those, but the buckshot they were using was " Federal Premium Law Enforcement 12GA 2¾ IN Buckshot Maximum 9 Pellets - 00 Buck with Flightcontrol Wad" product number LE127 00
That shotgun not being a sniper comment reminds me of the old days in BF3.. Remmington pump with a scope and slugs = OP haha
If I learned anything from Doom, it was that the shotgun is the one true weapon.
Well said
I got more kills with that thing than any other gun in that game
“Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. Eat leaden death, demon...”
― Terry Pratchett
In BF BC2 you should try the Barret with the red dot for cqb.
Ah nice, Its awesome to see you guys filming at Proper Gun Range. Used to love going there when I was little!
lol
First thing : Switch that owl to decaf .
Many of use keep shotguns for home defence . This information is vital . Unintended damage to people and property has serious consequences. I keep my shotgun loaded with the first two rounds being rubber ball type. The next three are 00 buck . I will have to rethink my choice of brand . Being a larger person recoil is not an issue . Being a fan of root canal, recoil is kind of enjoyable . That may be too much too share . 🤔😁
@Rich S ,
Thanks , you're right , not only should you check state and local laws , but in liberal areas , juries may rule against you even if less than legal is allowed . Being a former New Yorker, know exactly what you are referring to . Living in the much more realistic state of Arizona, our laws and courts tend to be more logic based . Then again we do have Tucson and the University of Arizona , one step away from full blown socialism. Thank for expressing concern .
I'm sorry, but I just feel it in my bones that if I shot rubber balls at anything, at least one would come back and hit me in mine. YMMV. :)
@@45CaliberCure ,
When less than lethal shotgun rounds first became available to the public , l was working for Mandalls shooting supply here in Scottsdale Az. We tested some on a sandbag 15' into the tube. Sand will give you more chance of bounce back than a human body . Our results were pure supposition , as l couldn't talk any of the guys to allow me to test it on them . Come on guys , it's non lethal . Wimps . No , no , l didn't volunteer because of the six pack stomach under my shirt . It would have damaged the beer cans .
@@richardpalmer6196
i figure at that point you're better off using birdshot instead.
i mean in most places you are supposed to stop using force when the invader retreats, so if you hit him with a rubber ball, chances are the dude gets away and continues to be a threat to other people.
you hit him with bird shot you're still probably not killing him, but he's going to be leaving blood behind and he's probably also going to visit a hospital to get the lead pieces dug out of him, giving the cops a chance to actually track the guy down.
@@windhelmguard5295 ,
You appear to be well aware off what is in the law of most localities . You can not use lethal force when the threat is over . My use of less than lethal rounds in my shotgun is strictly for the purpose of confrontational situations. If the threat is leaving l have accomplished my intentions. If the threat remains l will use less than lethal force. If the threat remains after that l have two situations on my hands . Either this is one seriously bad individual , or one so stupid that they need to be removed from the gene pool. Can't allow stupid to breed . Boy was that was politically incorrect !
If the threat still continues after the buckshot, l'm dealing with a zombie , and am in serious doodoo . All in all it comes down to understanding legalities of your locale . This is the main reason l disagree with my state changing to the no permit needed for concealed carry. When you applied for a ccw permit previously in Arizona, you had to pass a class which included understanding the laws that applied to the use of deadly force . Now anyone can carry concealed without full knowledge of the law. That in my opinion puts the Individual that carrys and the public at risk . For the individual , it can put them in a legal battle after a confrontation . For the public , there is always a danger when an untrained person is carrying a firearm . Training is vital in so many ways .
DAMN! That Winchester load almost had a PERFECTLY symmetrical spread pattern across the X axis! That definitely scratched my OCD itch hahaha! What’re the chances of that?! Great video as always, much love from Texas!
Yeah , but the shot pattern had a big hole in the center where the vital organs are . Paul Harrell's meat target would have shown alot of damage to the ribs and covering flesh but little damage to the citrus lung material .
Clip of the owl in the beginning was great😂👌
There is also 15 pellet 3 inch 00 buckshot shells. I havent had the chance to try them out yet. I have a few boxes of regular 9 pellet and flitecontrol. They perform great.
I got the Paul Harrel vibe instantly when you said “you be the judge.”
OG has to be one of the coolest, down to earth LEO’s out there. Thank you for what you do. Much appreciated.
Winchester does have a XXX round called Winchester Gone Wild, but you can only buy it after dark.
Underrated
I do appreciate your demonstrations and your humor. I do wonder about some of the premises though. A pattern at 20 yards is only 10 feet short of the length of my house from front to back! It will take some serendipity to get a clear shot at a bad guy from my bathroom through my bedroom and the kitchen and the living room to my front door. Guess i could remodel to get all the doorways to line up, or just buy a bigger house!!! Thanks for the show!
The Flitecontrol wads work very well, perhaps too well.
Great in a goose load.
Right? They would be great for geese but I'd almost like one that releases the pellets a little earlier for personal defense.
I wonder how Flitecontrol would do in a 12 ga. AR rifle? Would the semi auto action soften the recoil enough to make it kick less enough to make it easier to shoot?
They work great for predator hunting!
Fed FC 9 pellet is the stuff at 20 to 25. It's a shame you can't get 8 pellet any more. If you watch lucky gunner, they say the 8 works better than the 9 ( tighter pattern) . Really great video guys. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for sharing your passion with mass accelerators.
👍😎👍
00 buck at 20 yards is absolutely deadly. at 50 yards it becomes a crap shoot,, unless you use a very tight choke and a slightly under-powered loading. High speed rounds through a tight choke often produces a wider pattern than slower ones. Not sure why, but it happens.
Glad I have notifications turned on! Another great video. Thanks and stay safe.
thank you Lance!
Extended ported chokes can really work wonders as well for keeping 00 buck patterns tight. With my M4 and a ported extended full choke I've gotten 8" patterns with milsurp 00 buck at 25 yards. For folks that don't know, ported chokes aren't for reducing recoil, they help strip the wad off the shot to keep it from disturbing the pattern. It's a lot cheaper to buy a good choke than buy hundreds of rounds of flitecontrol.
Nice. I wonder what the wound channel of the flite control vs a regular rifled slug would look like.
When in doubt, up the pellet size! I started using 000 buck. Only one less pellet but noticeably bigger holes. Still have tons of 00 though. It all works.
Laughed like a snow blind mad man at that Hydraulic Press Owl Guitar Solo. Immediate like.
The owl head banging in the beginning is so perfect Tao. Love it.
OG: a shotgun is not a sniper weapon.
Danny: hold my beer.
Rich S yeah, it was obviously meant as a joke.
LOL
Never the less, but in the right hands, somebody with a shot gun can be a surgeon.
A shotgun may be a sniper rifle if it meets the following conditions.
1 you are firing a shell with a single projectile
2 there is a rifled choke or rifled barrel
3 your target is over 100m away
4 you manage to hit the target where you are aiming.
good luck pulling that off.
You have tested a number of different 12GA shotgun loads, but never Hornady 12GA TAP loads. I've found them to be a tighter pattern then most 00 buck loads and about a 5" spread at 25 yards. For LEO use this pattern is a good compromise.
Thanks for making great videos.
Hey dudes.... glad y’all are safe
I know a long barrel isn't practical for home defense,but I have a coast to coast master mag 12 ga 30 inch fixed full choke barrel that will take a number 4 buck 3" 41 pellets and put 30 to 37 pellets in a 12 inch circle at 120 yards
Love me some Paul Harrell though
You guys get monetized again??? There were 4 ads when I was watching so I hope you guys are getting paid at least! Love your videos, never give up, man!
I got an ad showing a woman massaging her glutes with a vibrator gun .
Mine are all some gambling website ... I've never gambled in my life🤣
I roll my own buckshot shells but nothing I can construct comes close to the tight patterns of Flitecontrol.
My 12 ga is loaded with #8 bird shot as the most likely the reason for grabbing the shotgun is snakes around here. We have timber rattlers, copperheads, along with a couple other not so nice species... (the UPS man ran over our 7' black snake that used to keep the bad ones away plus controlled the mice population too... dangit!!!) After the bird shot comes 00Buck then a slug for "other than snake problems" ;-) Excellent video sir... as usual!!!
I freaking loved that intro
Awesome intro (LOL!) and a very interesting and informative video. Loved it!!!
Keep up with all that recoil and keep having fun... can't wait to see the next video! :)
Thanks for stopping in. 😎👍
@@OGsDangerShow The only downside for me is that I will never use these tips and comparisons - in a country where even slingshots are illegal... :)
As far as I'm concerned the Flight Control wad is the biggest advancement in shotgun technology in history. I don't find them to kick any harder either myself. There are different loads and you must have had the more powerful of the two as I find the low recoil load very pleasant to shoot. My vote for the best twelve gauge load ever has to go to the fifteen pellet of number one buck Flight Control Load. Very hard to get ahold of but well worth it when you do. Product number is LE132-1B. I don't know when or why the standard for buckshot became how it patterns in your kitchen? ALL buckshot will pattern tight at four or five yards but I'd rather have to ability to still have a useful round out to fitty or sixty yards and Flight Control makes that possible.
I remember when we first got some Hornady Law Enforcement OO buck to try, back in the 90's if I recall right. They actually had two loadings, one for pumps and one with a little more oomph for autoloaders. When we took them to the range I thought it was a fluke, or that some of the pellets had missed. It was amazing to see a fist-sized group at 25 yards. Hornady were the first to go with what became the flight control wad. I'm not sure, but I think they may have been the first to develop a low recoil 00 buck round. When I went through the academy, and for years afterward, all I ever heard was "you have to aim at their belt buckle to hit them in the chest" and "OO buck spreads one inch for every yard." We actually had a situation where the officers were armed with 870's (late 80's, before we got patrol rifles) and the bad guy was waving his rifle around. I asked why they didn't shoot at him and was told they weren't sure they would hit him at that distance (25 yards) and didn't want to give away their concealed positions. I made sure we did more shotgun training after that.
"The shot gun is not a sniper weapon", oh yeah, hand it to Danny! keep up the good work guys
"Shot gun is not a sniper weapon" aka "don't expect to have to same accuracy these guys do, they are excellent, experienced, shooters".
Buckshot is a numbers game. 00-9 .33" balls. We always used #1 buck, 16-.30" balls. For deer. And a tight grouping kind of defeats the purpose of a " riot gun" barrel.
Guys, I love all of your videos, Positive vibes are everywhere.
Thanks man!
a shotgun is a very unique self defense weapon and it needs to be remembered that with a good shot you may have a few misses and with a bad shot you may have a few hits. we have shot it out to 100 yards and have been surprised at the hits acquired at that range.
As always, great vid with good explanations and even a bit of humor to help it along.
Great info guys, who would have guessed? I mean for those times when you want the biggest smack, good to know what your options are.
OG where did you get the shirt?
AmericanMarauder.com.
Excellent demonstration. Thank you gentlemen and have a great ID4.
Really absurd how hard it is to find #1 buck loads, since they've been shown to be more effective at that FBI 7 yd distance we all hear so much about...
South Georgia Outdoors
Your channel is so informative in so many ways.
I absolutely love 2 3/4" 12 pellet 00 buck 12 gauge loads. Magnum power in a 2 3/4" shell.
Taofledermaus, I have to correct you on something. The wadding cushioning is NOT there to reduce recoil. It is to reduce the deformation of the pellets caused by sudden acceleration. The lack of pellets stringing is what is causing the increase in recoil and the tighter pellet groups. When a shotgun is fired the pellets at the front in most cases are accelerated first, which means they are moving faster followed by the pellets at the bottom of the wadding which are moving slower. Such groups can string out to around 18 feet or so.
The effect of increased recoil of the flight control rounds is the same effect as though you are firing a slug. The stringing effect is really apparent with bird shot.
Nice video guys👍 I reload my own buckshot and can tell you all it's hard to beat the Federal Flight Control buckshot for tight patterns but for hunting nickel plated buckshot pellets have better penetration on deer.
I saw another advert, the only channel where I get excited about seeing one! 😁 ✌️
Awesome! Thank you!
“across the living room distances”.... yup, my living room is 20yds across.
Longest shot in my house is ~40 meters. Not bragging, I just have a oddly laid out house.
@Rich S Check out house prices in Westminster, Harrogate, Middlesbrough, Darlington and Stirling.
20 yards is beyond the dreams of many people on this island now.
@@joejoelesh1197 idk what that is my house is 3700sq ft living room is about 25 ft x 20 so this round is perfect 😆 ... 😔 they're also sold out cant find them anywhere!
From the mound to home plate
I shot so many different slugs with my smooth barrel 500...finally I found the cheapest at the time, brenneke KO slugs were basically sniper rounds in my shotgun.
No real reason to bring this up...just made me remember shooting it at 100 yard targets. I miss the $1.99 price. :(
I’m just here to see Paul’s response
the slow-mo of the flight control wad is amazing. shockwave is so visible.
Dont know why everyone that does these shoots never talks about the actual hunter that uses the 00b for hunting
THAT FLITE CONTROL ROUND SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD BE A GREAT HUNTING ROUND .I WONDER WHAT KIND OF PATTERN IT WOULD HAVE AT DISTANCES OF 50+ YARDS ?
AWESOME VIDEO AS ALWAYS
GOD BLESS YOU AND YOU LOVED ONES
O.G. THANK YOU AND ALL THE MEN AND WOMEN IN BLUE ,GOD BLESS ALL OF YOU
GODSPEED
Thanks again, UNCLE BUZZ 😎👆
This program is brought to you by O.G. and the METAL OWLS!!!!!
LOL.
Ruffling feathers coast to coast.
I LOVE the Metal owl!
I have patterned four different nine pellet buckshot loads in my shotgun. One had the flyer, but it did it consistently, shot after shot.
Hmm, I have some #4 shot rounds marked “Law Enforcement” from the same company.
How many pellets?
Man those flights pack a hell of a punch
000 buck can be pretty impressive too
I like watching this series because it shows me a good cop when all the news can show me is bad cops.
Not trying to say anything bad about OG. I'm sure he's a great cop. At the same time, there's a lot of cops that act pleasant when they're out of uniform and are terrible when they're on the job. Please keep that in mind. But OG, you seem to be a great dude and I hope you're still a great dude on the job.
Thanks Ryan. Most cops are good. We do this job to help people and keep our towns safe. There are a very FEW who are bad. We work to get rid of them. Anyone who tells you there are a LOT of bad cops doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
@@OGsDangerShow let's be honest, though. ONE bad cop is too many.
And judging by the behavior of several entire departments, the bad cops are running those.
"is there a Winchester single X?" Ya that would be a foster slug.
Nice! I have a bunch of Hornady low recoil TAP 8 pellet 00 buck and it performs just like the Flitecontrol here out of my 18" 870, amazing stuff.
I like #1 buck for HD though, less penetration, 16 wound channels and a bit more spread...but my house is small, I couldn't even get a 10yd shot inside.
9 and 8 pellet seems to be best. But if I had to pick one it would be 8 pellet. Not to mention less recoil allows for faster follow up shots when shooting multiple targets.
Last time I was this early we had ammo in stores
Glad to see you guys are able to have the firearm back in the shot
Nice isn’t it? RUclips won’t allow us to show guns when we feature home-made ammo. But with factory stuff we’re good to go.
@@OGsDangerShow it's such a shame that RUclips's algorithm is the way it is
@@OGsDangerShow interrogative whiskey tango foxtrot, over.
Double X's...... Thats a lotta Alimony................
That's why I have guns.
My friend who is now retired had to buy a special buckshot load when he was going through academy, I believe it was 8 shot . Like college when you take a class and the teacher tells you you need to buy their book that they wrote for the class. You do what you need to do to get through the class. And never need those loads again. Or book for that matter.
like 00 buck or higher because i want to be for sure I put the thug down. Whether they are the meat-eater variety or vegan; 120 pounder to gorilla-sized at 400.
I want to make sure they go down in one shot. Now there is a risk of turning their heads into wall pizza or spaghetti and sausage special spilling out of their tummy sack but hey. Better them then me. I got a family to protect.
My favorite is a 7 pellet 0000 buckshot in my 12ga. Fewer pellets, but each just slightly smaller than a .45 bullet.
Edit:
Ok, I'll look at the flitecontrol buckshot. That's impressive
Hi Carlos. What weapon?
5:11 that was my college nickname "all in the same hole"
Oof. 😳
I did the math based on the specified diameter of the pellets and the density of lead - 00 with 9 pellets will result in 40.9 grams of lead, where as 0 with 12 pellets will only result in 38.4 grams of lead.
My preferred recoil solution: Federal Premium Law Enforcement *Reduced Recoil* 132-00. That's a 2-3/4" shell with 9 pellets of 00 buckshot, with the famous FliteControl wad for ultra tight groups, leaving the muzzle at an advertised 1145 fps instead of the more typical full power 1325 fps or greater as from most factory 9 pellet 00 loads. All of the factors that make this ideal for city police work in crowded urban areas make it ideal for typical close range home defense use.
Reduced recoil doesn't needlessly aggravate the bursitis in my right shoulder - I can actually _enjoy_ shooting these instead of dreading it with my lightweight little Mossberg 500 with 18.5" cylinder bore (no choke) security barrel, and still get nice tight groups much as per shown in your video (just at lower but still tremendously effective velocities for out to perhaps 30 yards or so, _preferably less as otherwise it may be hard to explain to a judge_). I keep an ammo bandoleer that holds 56 of these reduced recoil rounds hanging conveniently near the shotgun, as I do not like weighing down and cluttering up the shotgun itself....
www.ammunitiondepot.com/949-federal-premium-12-ga-reduced-recoil-2-3-4-9-pellet-flitecontrol-00-buck-shot.html
Automatically liked for the hilarious intro 😂 I love you guys.
I really like the federal flitecontrole. But I find they work very well in a more open choke. I was very surprised in my experience that they did not perform well out of a full choke gun. My favourite buckshot load in my defensive shot guns is the Remington 000 2 3/4 load with 8 pellets. It has always shot very tight patterns at the distances I would consider using buckshot.
True, a cyl or Imp cyl is best with these flite control if you want tight.
Did they ever say what choke they had installed? I’d be interested to know
I’ll be sure to ask the coroner to count the number of pellets so everything is accounted for.
Nice vid , By watching this three Paul Harrell buckshot videos popped up... Thank You !!!
“Across the living room” I’d prefer the 12 pellets and larger pattern. For actual hunting distances (where legal) I’d take the Flitecontrol shell.
My agency uses the flight control. It sucks when you qualify and they count the pellets on target and its out of your control the spread of the pellets. The flight control changed all that.
There were 9 pellets on that last shot. Two pellets in the bottom right hand corner line up perfectly as they pass into the white of the target. Before that you can see them beginning to line up, it's just harder to identify because of the background
The owl doing the air guitar was amazing 👏
Paul wasn't the main proponent of the "9th pellet is a flier" theory; the topic came up, he did some testing, and as I recall the result was "you be the judge" because it wasn't clear cut. Sometimes it was, sometimes it wasn't. It's the guy from Lucky Gunner who really pushed the "9th pellet is a flier" concept.