Moondrop Variations | Solid and engaging, but…
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- Moondrop Variations
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7Hz Timeless
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Ikko OH10 "Obsidian"
www.ikkoaudio....
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🏆 RANKINGS (now the "Wall of Joy")
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Garage sale of reviewed gear
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🎶 MUSIC | Demo tracks 🧐
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🎶 MUSIC | Demo tracks v2 🧐
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🎶 MUSIC | Loved 🥰
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🎶 MUSIC | Atmos playlist 🤯
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👂🏻 FAVORITE IEM SETUP
IEM: Unique Melody MEST - $1,500
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Silicone tips
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Foam tips ("Marshmallow")
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Cable
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Carrying case
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🎧 FAVORITE HEADPHONES
Sennheiser HD 800 S
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STAX SR-L300
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Grado Limited Edition "Hemp"
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Hart cables
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🎧 FAVORITE WIRELESS HEADPHONE
AirPods Max
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🔌 DAC / AMP / HARDWARE I USE
DAC | Schiit Bifrost 2
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AMP (solid) | Drop + THX 789
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AMP (tube hybrid) | Xduoo TA-30
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EQUALIZER | Schiit Lokius
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For the track Dan was speaking of: A Perfect Circle - The Noose
ruclips.net/video/BVXTmav24Wk/видео.html
That negative space feedback was spot-on, it's one of the reasons that I recall was messing with the enjoyment of the tune when I still had the set, but I didn't pick it up as precisely as you've said it. Thanks for pointing that out and Happy New Year!
Thanks but that 240p video is LOW RES 100%, is there a better link somewhere else?
Coming from the Kato to the Variations. I miss the slams of the drums, that hit of the instruments that the Kato produce. However, the more I use the Variations, the more it grew on me. Because it sound so clean!
Update: Variations shines on Acoustic songs or songs that focuses on vocals, especially on female vocals. It sound so meaty.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I am looking for an upgrade to my katos and been eyeing for the variations. I am looking for a comparison between these two. Do the price justify the step up from the katos? I really appreciate your response. TIA!
i just returned my KATOs that i bought a few days ago. reason being i didn't get any "wow" factor by it. (i daily drive sennheiser hd560s). I'm planning to save up a bit for the variations. do you think the variations will give me that "wow" factor after coming from KATO and HD560s? i admit i don't even know what im chasing after, but i saw some very good technical review speaking highly of variations. and yet many other reviewers saying it's a slightly better blessing 2 dusk.
What genres do you end up listening to with katos vs variations? Thanks
Give me 3 best song to play bro!!!!!???? I just got them!! Blow away !
Great review! Despite the caveats you mentioned, I am still gunning for the Variations. I've heard several iems you've mentioned/reviewed including the variations and from yr descriptions it seems like your priorities in sound differ from mine. But that's okay since your explanations are always clear. After realising the differences in what u and I look for, I find that I still find value in what you are saying.
All I can say is that the music I hear on the Variations sound like it's coming from a single driver and that is a difficult task when you have (5) drivers per side ! ...... and I love them to death .....I will never sell the Variations !!!!!
So glad I found you. I have been reading and watching reviews of IEM's and while they did their best to describe the sound, your videos just show it and you have that ahaaaa moment. Thank you very much for the hard work! Also happy new year.
I’m very happy that my videos make that moment happen and explain it well for you. That’s my goal! Thank you for stopping by to give those kind words 🙇🏻♂️
Great review Dan! I have the Ikko OH10 as my daily earphones and got the Variation a few weeks ago. The Variation have a very pronounced sub-base, to much to my taste, and I have to slightly tone it down with equalizing to get the best of them. I must say that for me the Ikko is usually more enjoyable sounding and much more comfortable for long hearing then the Variations.
Exactly my thought about the sub bass
So overall sound which iem is your pick between ikko and variation?
@@farhannik7039 jazz, classic rock, hip hop - ikko , jpop, k-pop, classic audiophile reference music - variations
Wonderful! This video has subtitles enabled. Thank you very much!
Ikko oh10 has a great midrange clarity? Its v shaped af. Vocals too recessed.
Love the statement, "... I don't look at the graph and go by my ears...". Musical experience is a very personal things and no one is alike. Graph can only tells so much and not the musical emotion and dynamic. It's always personal preference on listening instruments and no one equipment fits all. Remember one audiophile said, want to real experience, go to concerts, one will never find the real things reproduced. Keep it up Dan, like what you are doing to give a different perspective besides graph and more graphs.
Thank you for saying this 🙇🏻♂️ Sincerely!
Agree and dont agree:) Sure, a personal taste should be the main factor when choosing the headphone. But there is also a science behind audiophile world and many people forget that this science allows us to hear our beloved music properly. Harman target was invented for purpose. It creates sound impression that is the closest to the live experience. Ive had/heard many iems and the only ones that gave me this out of a head, beautifully diffused in space sound, were the ones with harman or very close to harman tuning. I have some really enjoyable iems that sound fun and engaging but due to the messed up tuning, they dont sound believable and natural. The Monarchs Mk2 for example are harman tuned and even tho they arent as fun, they put me in the room with two big speakers in front of me.
Thats why learning about the frequency responce is important if we want to really go deeper, chasing the perfect, natural presentation of music.
So if we want fun and engagement, sure, there is no rule. But if we want objectively the most natural and faithful presentation, harman target is up on top right now.
Helpful review, thanks. I was thinking of the Variations or similar priced sennheheiser ie600.
And glad to hear someone who goes by their ears rather than graphs.
Subscribed
Man I thought for sure you were gonna talk about the song “the package” off of the same a perfect circle album, that one has the pitter patter you’re talking about, with an intermittent sub that makes it feel so cinematic. Absolutely colossal album for sure.
Love your constructive criticism on those high tier sets. When there is so much money on the table tuning and presentation is what makes the whole difference since the buyer become really nit picky at that stage.
🙇🏻♂️
thanks Dan, great review as always. I have a question regarding Obsidian. is it easy to drive? I'll be using it via a phone.
(i liked the soundstage openness and clarity + bass it had in your demos)
With few exceptions, I’ve enjoyed almost every IEM straight out of the iPhone. I can’t speak to every phone’s power output though.
The obsidian sounds good to me. I’m not hungering for more power, personally.
Hi :) @Mamad, do yourself a favour and buy some decent dongle dac/amp for them :). They are not hard to drive but will benefit from some decent dongle style dac and a bit of power... (soundstage, bass quality and so...). There are some good not that expensive options :). U can try an apple dongle for the start. But just from the phone they wont sound awfull by any means.
@@matusjurcik6974 I run it off my iPhone ( when my headphone stack isn’t handy) ..also the KATO 🥳
HAPPY NEW YEAR..OH10’s STILL RULE 🥳
Thank you for A Perfect Circle Thirteenth Step...loving that album 👍♥️
Please : As for the basses, the Variations has more bass in terms of punch/range/depth than the Sony XBA-Z5 ?
Great video, thanks!
I have the Timeless and find no motivation to go to Variations yet.
Detailed and easy to understand! Thanks!
If you're talking about: a perfect circle, noose. The live one? That's very poorly recorded, and namely, in the bass being the most in that regard. Whereas variations is Uber revealing and ALL my revealing stuff is grimy as heck revealing that it's not well recorded there. Timeless and oh10 I'm sure are more forgiving in bass detail and aren't revealing it as much, trust me. Check something like gogo penguin, Raven ( Hanz Zimmer, Time; or B3onte&Delon, Tumpet bounce; Swedish House Mafia, moth to a flame; Rythm and Sound, Mango Drive) on quality bass detail, and then see what you think. Recording matters friend. And is under talked about in the hobby. I'm fine with varied opinions, but to me you got this wrong. 🙂 Happy new year.
This one:
music.apple.com/us/album/the-noose/723637755?i=723637922
Studio recorded I believe.
Absolutely man, we all have different impressions with our music, different libraries and masters, ears, and so on. Which moments need to sound a certain way to connect with us, our tastes, are different.
I wish I conveyed that better for this take on the variations experience I had.
I did listen to my bass tracks on my demo list and tracks from my metal and electronic lists. I tried to test the experience I had across multiple artists and genres, and I kept getting that same impression.
I think it may be a case of different areas of the bass landing on us differently.
I remember someone on head-fi saying to me that the Sony XM4’s had less bass than the AirPods Max. He pointed out that I stated I thought the XM4 had too much bass (more than the AirPods Max). So, he thought the opposite of me.
It turned out that, when looking at the graphs, the AirPods Max had more sub bass, while the XM4 had more mid-bass. So we were both hearing more bass, but in different places.
I don’t know anything for sure, but maybe our differing impressions of the Variation’s bass clarity could be us two listening in on different presentations of bass, or onto different areas of the tuning or technical presentation of each area of bass.
I’m not hearing much separation in the low end that presents itself on my playback. I can believe your experience is different there, or you hear enough clarity there to give you what your library needs to give you so you love your music.
I can totally imagine how for many people, the Variations are their S tier. It just wasn’t connecting like that for me personally. I do apologize if I don’t convey that we’ll enough when I speak.
Agreed. A Perfect Circle's older albums especially all suck hard on the mix, so they shouldn't be used as benchmark in testings. But of course the musicians are all phenomenal, hence why the music still sounds great. But audio wise, it sucks.
@@samuelng6441 Totally agreed. Indeed.
please reply bro is Thieaudio Monarch soundstage better than moondrop variation......like everything of how wide,
cause of fps games for eg. like 360 most importantly 360 is it.....3D abit? they said its so close intimate and 2D but is it 3d presence i would be satisfied
how tall it is like up and down....behind and infront...?
Whats your fav iem then under that price sir?
Hello Dan what IEM do you consider the best in the area of the moment of "SILENCE" music you mentioned in this review?
Oh gosh there are so many IEMs to consider for making an interesting experience in moments like that. I’m not sure 🤔
I’m only speculating here, but I think the treble heavy stuff may do well since those tunings favor high perceived detail. Those quiet moments, which have nicely contrasting noise coming up after, may do well when the treble is up and you feel like you’re hearing more detail hit you when the sound comes back AND during the silence itself. Or idk, it could be highly dependent on what kind of music or instruments are being played 🤷🏻♂️
can't find same good review of Truthear Nova on the channel ((
I dont know why they would elevate the sub-bass so much
So I did return the variations. I know you don’t have a review out but I think you’ve mentioned that you have the clairvoyance. Do you think the clairvoyance gives the same detailed sound with the sensation of instruments floating around in your head without that low mid range scoop that killed the variations for me. I’ve been thinking about saving up for the clairvoyance for some time now.
My personal favorite has got to be the DUNU SA6 for the smooth playback styled category which the Clairs belong to. I would own the SA6 over the Clairvoyance. Or, that’s my impression after having the SA6 for a short time. I couldn’t keep them for too long, as they were a loaner.
I think the Clairs are so so close though pretty much. Trying them side by side might even yield a preference for the Clairs, depending on who is doing the listening.
Both are great picks in any case.
@@dansaudioreviews Well I ordered the clairvoyance and they shipped out today. My particular set of the timeless had a slight rattle in the left ear phone when bass would rattle them. I decided screw it. I’m getting what I have really wanted to begin with.
@@jdk_360 Well they’re solid. They were my first big ticket item actually. It was before I did channel content, maybe a year or more ago.
I remember listening to them in a car ride and being totally engrossed in my classical music. I enjoyed them and, if it wasn’t for my channel, they would have been my only IEM to listen to my music.
I always felt so comfortable with their sound, and able to relax while getting a great presentation of music.
Probably the Oracle should be next to contrast the about $500 benchmarks you’ve done so far like the SA6 and Variations.
Variations or B2D ? (Yes I know you don't like them but even considering that, what do you recommend more ?)
I know its clear that Variations is better, but I am a poor college student, is it worth to spend $200 for the upgrades I can get with variations ?
Worth it, yes. Worth it for you if you have little money to spend? That is truly down to your decision.
Bruh you don't throw away 300+$ on earphones and then say "poor college student" you are getting twisted...
Clear your browser and RUclips history then use whatever earphones/headphones you have right now
@@wswsd3279
Long story short, Variations worth the upgrade. (And I have Olina and the itch is still on)
Happy New Year Dan. Great review as always. It would be interesting to hear your take of the original Monarch. Looking forward to the next one.
You're absolutely welcome, Dan, and Happy New Year! Very interesting take. I had a feeling you wouldn't be a huge fan of them. Not familiar with the song in question so I'll have to listen on some other stuff until I can hear it on the Variations. You mentioned fuzzy a couple times, which is hard for me to understand given that I find them so clean sounding, but we all hear things different. They can definitely mess with certain songs, not the all-rounders like the SA6. Still my favorites.
Speaking of favorites, two of mine on the Variations are: 1) Dreams (take 2) off disc 3 of the Rumors Deluxe Edition and 2) Sun is Shining by Stick Figure w/Johnny Cosmic. Around the 1:12 mark on Dreams when Stevie Nicks starts to sing I get chills. Its eerie on a lot of gear, but on the Variations she comes across particularly striking to me. Sun is Shinning showcases the big bass and imaging/separation characteristics of the Variations.
If it helps to clarify, that “fuzzy” sound is only in the bass region. Elsewhere is not fuzzy whatsoever. Very clean in the mids and up.
Oh, and I love seeing music recommendations. Thank you!
@Dan's Audio Reviews No problem. I know we all have different tastes. It helps to know where a person is coming from when they describe what they like or dislike about something. I try to form a "bond" with the gear I have in a way it represents what I like about each. Otherwise you're just chasing end-game and not being happy with the hunt itself.
@@zev51104 oh so very true.
Did you only listen to them with aftermarket tips?
The variations? Hmmm… I honestly just don’t remember anymore.
I was waiting for this video.
Sharur favorite iem
Interesting - I have an untrained non-technical ear - but I have had/tried OH10, Timeless, Timeless AE, Kato, FH7S, IE600, and Variations… of them all- Variations is my favorite and the one I have kept. OH10 I loved the sound but hated the fit and physical heaviness. Same with Kato. IE600 sounded amazing just not enough bass strength-I guess not warmly colored enough for me-but amazing sound clarity. FH7S sounded great but Variations better and such a better fit. Timeless I Loved sound and fit, but to me the Variations has a preferable sound. To each their own. I might get OH10 again for some fun times with punch, but Variations will likely stay in my shoulder satchel for daily carry.
Are you still enjoying the variations?
@@unclethathurts , hi! 👋… I actually ended up returning the variations. I’ve gone through trying so many IEM’s - what I’ve settled on is Fiio FH9 and Ikko OH10, I keep both of those in my Messenger bag, and go between the two of them. I use the FH9 when I want more detail and clarity. But $600 is not pocket change for a set of earbuds. I’m still madly in love with the $200 OH10 and choose that pair, at least half of the time - highly suggest getting a pair since they’re no longer manufacturing them.
nice reviewm, thx
OH10’s still King Kong…as for the T3 + ..mine died after 2 days 😞…going back to Amazon..I don’t know if I should get them again.
As for the 7HZ Timeless…🤔
Sorry to hear that 😕
Yea timeless are pretty fun!
@@dansaudioreviews something to definitely think about 🤔
🍻
Duuuude you gotta record demos if you get a hold on iems!
I did get recordings, but I didn’t like the quality of what I had done. But by the time I considered that the recording quality wasn’t good enough, I had already sent them back.
I may be getting it back again to record again.
Just my 0.02 based on my library and synergy:
Variations+Shanling M3X - Techno, Trance, Progressive, DnB etc... and female vocals.
Dunu EST 112+ibasso DX-160 - everything else.
Tin P1/Hifiman 400i 2020+iFi Hip Dac 2 with xbass on - planar goodness.
So the variations is suitable for edm genres?
Why is this video focusing on bass and nothing else?
Fair point. I focus on what stands out in my first impressions video. The treble and mids are mentioned as being well balanced enough, but I didn’t have a super impressive experience with other technicals to share much of them at this time.
There was a great clean playback for the mids and beyond, and this makes for an engaging set, but the standout impression the Variations left me with were how I couldn’t get passed what the low end was leaving me wanting for.
I can talk more about the clean and balanced playback of the mids and treble, and try to point out specific tracks and moments that could help me elaborate, but those details would come in a full demo/review with commentary, if I make one.
Detail is just extended treble. There is not such thing as one driver being faster than the other, every driver that is able to reproduce 20kHz (like DD or planar), is fast enough, end of story.
Another great content Dan and first impressions of the Moondrop Variation, I have a question does the 7hz Timeless does it do well on vocals (males/females) my genre of music I listen to are edm, hip hop, kpop, anime, instrumental / jazz, classical, vocals, soundtracks, alternative / rock, classic rock
As an owner of the 7hz vocals are pretty solid but a bit pulled back stock, the vocal texture on them is really something special and lend vocals a really nice clarity, Edm with these is great but slam is pretty tip dependant and not quite as powerful as a good DD bass driver but you gain far better sub bass extension and detail retrieval. Any hip hop and soundtrack music should sound really solid as the detail retrieval and treble quality is really solid and the soundstage while not having much depth is rather wide and the bass can give the set a real immersive atmospheric quality on certian classical tracks. As far as rock and especially metal, I feel these really excel as the speed and detail of the bass and treble really help to correct alot of metal's compression issues. Jazz while clear and quite good is not really colored in any way, and as some one who likes a lush midrange for jazz this was only a slight disappointment. Otherwise the set is great for the money but is highly tip dependant, also of note it responds to EQ wonderfully (as I bump up the mids for bass guitar and some of the mid treble for vocal presence, but again minor changes as the base tuning is really solid) I would definitely recommend, the hype is real, just be aware of possible qc issues
@@ZeroofAgrathalm I do have the Ikko OH10 Obsidian already so hoping down the road that I will obtain the Timeless
Happy New Year Dan!
Having or had 7hz timeless, ikko oh10 and variations....Variations should have a S, timeless an A+ and ikko and A.
I can hear where that’s coming from. We all have different tastes and libraries, so it doesn’t surprise me you could prefer the Variations.
I can hear what makes them special to so many 🙂
@@dansaudioreviews At least it would be nice to have extra level notes on your tabal like level of scene, level of detail...something. The variations has nothing
@@onlyspace9813 Fair enough. I tend to just run my thoughts off the cuff like that. I realize people want to hear more specific details about the standard list of themes: separation, detail retrieval (or perceived detail anyway), imaging, and tuning.
I think my method is to simply comment on the most apparent or impactful aspects that each piece of gear has on me - while spending little to no time on other aspects that don't stand out to me. Whether it's for sake of time, or what I think I'd like to do for my channel's style, I just share what I enjoy and what I don't.
As always a planer has great speed and resolution but has a timbre that sounds weird
This is definitely a helpful video. Was going back and forth on whether or not I should buy the variations as an upgrade from my IKKO obsidian during the 11.11 deal. I finally decided to go against it and stick with what I already have.
How would you compare the IKKO Obsidian to the XENNS UP? Such as the bass detail, soundstage and separation.
Would the XENNS UP be a worthy upgrade?
The UP would be a worthy upgrade for most people. I just personally find the UP to have a bit of a recession of the male vocals. I just want them to pop more on the UP. Otherwise, with details and so on, the UP is better to me than the Obsidian.
It’s a trade off situation which, ultimately, has me preferring the Obsidian overall.
I can’t speak for how you may personally take to the comparison though. You could very well prefer having the better technicals of the UP, despite the male vocals.
Hi Dan, do you prefer the Obsidian over the UP for male vocals ?
Happy new year to you and all your listeners.
@@lanemiddleton9 I do prefer the Obsidian on male vocals. The UP happens to have that area as its one weakness for my tastes. The male vocals on the UP aren’t there for me enough.
The obsidian at least has it enough. Shining and beautiful? Maybe I wouldn’t say that. Better than the recessed male vocals of the UP? Yes.
Moondrop dusk is VERY similar with variations with a little less bass you have to compare them!I just saw the graphs
when this channel reach certain subscribers believe me, many of manufacturers & stores would racing sending u their products for u review them. when that time comes i hope im still be here to witness them dan!
🤩
which dongle good for android phone , foe use varition ?
moondrop moonriver 2 or moondrop dawn 4.4?
I’ve been using a simple Apple dongle for the iPhone, but for a usb c port on an android, I would probably just use whatever was convenient to plug and play.
I think Apple actually does sell a usb c to 3.5 mm adapter though, for only $9. If it works with androids, I would try that.
Paying more for higher end audiophile adapters may or may not matter. I just don’t have enough experience to say with any certainty.
Ive tried a few dongles they do make a huge difference. Get a good one ive tried the hidizs s3 pro, which i really like with the fiio fh3s, the xduoo link2 and the xduoo link 2 bal. I heard the earman eagle is one of the best as well. I havnt tried the variations yet so i cant tell u what would be best with it. But its supposed to have crazy sub bass so u probly dont need a bass booster dongle. The hidizs s3 pro is pretty good man and it doesnt break the bank. It brings a lot of depth and power to the music over a basic cheap dongle, and more than enough volume for anyone too.
Sound Demo Plzzzzz!!!!
7h planar Atemporal ? No have a bass...
Hi Dan, would you recommend the Variations for someone who likes clean mids and that sub bass?
I currently own a pair of Fiio FH3s and absolutely love them.
Would it be overkill to get the Variations or should I just play it safe and go for the Timeless, since it's known to have better imaging. Thanks!
Well for me I just like the Timeless more 😅
As for hitting your specific desires for clean mids and sub bass….the obsidian is close to that checklist, but instead of sun bas it has more mid-bass through low mids to my ear.
@@dansaudioreviews I was actually on the fence about the OH10s vs the FH3s, and got the latter. I already have mid bass-centric IEMs so I'm good on that front 😁 - Thanks for the quick reply!
What did you end up doing I also have the fh3s and am looking at getting the variations 😂😂😂
@@BillB3737 I got the Variations a few weeks ago for $430 during the 11.11 sale. It is a fun sounding IEM and the level of detail is far superior than any of the IEMs I've owned. Just a side note, its going to be slightly warmish than the FH3 but the mids and details make up for it since there's a low amount of mid bass. It never feels muddy and is super clean sounding. I'm using 4.4 balanced output with my TRI TK 2 dac. Loving it so far and I'm happy I pulled the trigger on this one. Had to wait over a year just to save up for this :p
#NoRegrets
@@MuhammadHammadAshraf hows the bass in electronic music vs the fh3?
Fantastic review, still waiting on the starsea one though!!
Can I expect Oracle review?
I would LOVE to check out the ThieAudio lineup. Haven’t had the funds to do so yet 😔
Review moondrop illumination and ikko oh7
Someday I hope!
@@dansaudioreviews and sennheiser ie300 also
I bought the Variations and was really dissapointed with them. Just lacks body and soul for me.
I’m very familiar with that album because I love a perfect circle. I just listened to that section on the variations and went back to the starfield to compare. Even the starfield does that transition so much better and now I can’t un hear it. I might return the variations TBH. I was looking for a do all set that can deliver good tonality and ultra detail. I’m thinking maybe the UP can deliver what I’m looking for with detail while still having elevated bass.
Such a great band/album!
Sorry to draw the spotlight on that part 😅 Those moments that can’t be unheard can really offset our interest in gear. But hey, if they make you love other tracks in your library, could be worth keeping?
They are pretty expensive though to be sure.
@@dansaudioreviews it wasn’t really just that one track. Some music sounds great but I’ve always thought they sounded kind of congested or something even though they provide good detail. And for $500 I should never want to take them out of my ears. More money doesn’t always equal better in this hobby. I was originally going to get the timeless.
UP is a lot more balanced in the bass. Too much sub for me in the Variation.
Sorry to be that guy, but are you doing a Mest review at any point? Anyway great review Dan!
I really want to, but I’m trying to wait one day for when I have more high cost gear under my belt. I’ve been so budget limited that I haven’t been able to get my hands on too many things.
Im just watching this on my phone and I noticed a switch of color when in landscape mode..HDR is good
can you review yanyin aladdin?
If a vendor sends me a sample or loaner unit, sure.
Just my thoughts but writing your conclusion in the title is a little anticlimactic for me like knowing the ending of a movie before you start.
Heh. True. I’m never sure how I want to go about it. Maybe something like… “solid and engaging…but..”
@@dansaudioreviews personally I’d like that better.
Naw, title works. It’s fine.
@@mensrea1251 he changed it already 😀
@@jeremywilliam79 Ah, I see, late to the game lol