Can Lithium-ion Battery Fires be Extinguished: Small/Medium Devices
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- Опубликовано: 28 апр 2023
- What to do if the lithium-ion batteries in consumer electronics or e-mobility devices catch on fire. Tips for both firefighters and residents.
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Videos like this are great. I always watch these because you never know if you will need to use the information given. Thanks for the video
Thank you for this amazing video....
Sound is great Captain!
Great info, thanks!
I had a large electric skateboard where I was charging pretty large LIPO batteries in my front living room. I had four 13 Amp-hour 6S 25v batteries together on a quad charger, and one ignited. Luckily I had just epoxied the floors in that space, so it was pretty clear, with nothing much around. Also, luckily there was a large window right next to the charger. I was in another room and heard the battery explode, and what sounded like a waterfall (I actually thought initially that a large water main had broke and was erupting/spraying, but it was way louder) and I ran into the room, and there was an inferno at the charger. Didn't take long before there was lots of smoke in the room. I immediately ran to get a shovel and ran back in to the room, where it had filled with a lot of smoke which I obviously tried not to breath and I held my breath. I broke the window and threw the burning batteries out of the house and then ran to the front where I got the garden hose and began putting small fires out in the living room from the broken window. I also was spraying the the ignited batteries, but the water was doing nothing. Its interesting that this guy is talking about putting LIPO batteries out with water.... uh, but that doesn't work. Its a self generating fire. The water didn't do much of anything. That was with a garden hose on full blast. Pretty much what you're doing is trying to reduce the temperature of the chemical reaction, not put it out like a normal fire where you're smothering it and keeping the oxygen away. Anyway, when the fire truck arrived, I was essentially scolded for trying to do anything myself and deal with the fire. Which is a bit absurd. I know there primary concern is always for the life of people, and many people do dumb/ignorant things not knowing the dangers,which I guarantee you, I didn't want to die, but I also didn't want my house to burn down, so.... I took a risk and saved my house. Had I just ran outside and let the fires burn, I wouldn't have a house today. I saved my house and my quick action actually resulted in very little damage to my house. I just kept telling the firefighters, "yeah, I get it.... but I wasn't going to let my house burn down"
a garden hose is 25gpm the fire hose is 125gpm or more , and he is talking more to firefighters
Can't put a lipo battery out with water other things that the lipo is catching on fire can be put out with water. I charge all my RC Aircraft lipos in a wood stove I bought installed in my garage for charging these. I abuse them lot worse than a skateboard would some are swelled continue to have capacity. Personally, I have never had any of mine catch fire I have seen a few ignite on fire were in crashed airplanes, or someone charging one that had been in a crash. I had a few that I crashed making a hissing sound most just swell.
This video is mainly for PROFESIONAL Firefighters! And Stached Man NEVER EVER SAID that you can put a lithium battery fire out with water! That's #1,
#2 Are you really going to say a garden hose =fire hose?
#3 You said if you didn't do what you did that your house would have burned down and you would be homeless? How is that possible? Don't you have home owners insurance? I don't mean to sound judgemental I'm just curious. I'm glad you weren't hurt then and I hope you're doing good today. Peace ✌️ Out
You seriously think that if my house burned down, I wouldn't consider myself homeless, even if I had insurance that would cover it? LOL. That's preposterous. What are you smoking? Also, no, duh, of course a garden hose isn't the same thing as a fire hose. What are you even trying to do here? ridiculous. Besides that, my point with the garden hose, or a fire hose, its not an issue of the amount of water. Its the fact that these types of fire, are self sustaining. It doesn't really matter if you're putting water on it. @@johnecker4217
You did the right thing in NOT waiting
Thank you for bringing awareness to the seriousness of these batteries
I've been charging my 18650 lithiums on a table in my dining room. After viewing these fire videos, I'm going to move that charging to a metal storage case at the far end of my garage to make it easier to shove out into the alley. Better safe than sorry.
Just like to add this since I've read a few comments about charging LIPO batteries in your home. They make battery fire bags. You put the battery in the bag while its charging, and it greatly reduces the chance that the battery can cause other damage and set surrounding things on fire, while its in the fireproof bag. Might not be a 100% solution but it will definitely improve your odds if something bad happens.
Also, if the device allows - don't charge to 100%. Charge to 80% or thereabouts, it reduces the likelihood of a charge fire.
It's rather unfortunate that lithium batteries are now in everything from hearing aids to computers, cellphones, tablets and even cars. Even things one might not expect. But if it's rechargeable, it's almost guaranteed to be lithium based drek.
For smaller batteries, the fire bags make sense. For larger e-mobility devices, they only solve one part of the problem. You can learn more in this video: ruclips.net/video/LW6tsCUomkk/видео.html
@@wombatdkNow a days this happens automatically with most well built devices. The exact point they stop varies but you can expect most to stop around probably 90-95% charge while telling you they are at 100% sometimes a little less than that.
@@wombatdk unfortunately this is we’re the big risks of these batteries lie, that is in toys, e-bikes,skate boards, vaping machines and diy projects without temperature of charge management systems.
@@wombatdk Properly built electronics have a BMS that doesn't allow charging to 100%, even if the display reads 100%. Most of these fires come from cheap tech like mobility scooters and ebikes made in Xina, or damaged batteries due to design flaws - as was the case with phones blowing up in pockets.
The benefits of rechargeables outweigh the risks. Buyer beware.
Good post.
thank you
I would love to see this guy do a video on the Station nightclub fire. There are a lot of takeaways and things we learned from that horrible fire.
I may branch into other topics eventually by basing the video off the official NIOSH or other official investigation type reports.
I remember that night vividly. Horrifying situation that changed the way I pay attention to the exits at all times when at shows. RIP to the victims
I was supposed to go to that concert , the week before i met a girl from Bridgeport , she had a pair of tix , her friend cancelled on her , My bike broke down on the way to pick her up , we both missed Great White , i still think God had a plan for that to happen that night , Horrible tragedy , i get goosebumps thinking about it
Some people have no choice but to store and charge in the apartment, so the only safe option is to do this in the bathroom, where there is almost nothing to burn and there is a ventilation duct
Why is it titled "How to extinguish.." ?
Click bait . You cant ever put them out until they burn themselves out .
When I was charging Lipo or Li-ion batteries at home, (I've gone back to Nimh) I used charging bags and a metal container. (old cash box or de-sealed ammo box). My unused lipos are stored long term in a broken oven out in my shed.
if your gonna charge an ebike battery in your garage or shed, i know people who put their batteries in their barbeque to charge when not using it, so if they catch fire their much less likely to burn their house/shed down
I'm building a quadcopter right now and have a few decent-sized lithium polymer batteries, from 30-110 watt-hours, I use a LIPO safe bag but I'm suspicious of its effectiveness. Is there any fire extinguisher I can use?
HI got a new question for you a Havery a 2.5 a 5 and a 10 lbs abc units which one would you recommend in my kitchen? Thoughts please thank you note I can lift 50 lbs so I will not find the 10 lbs heavy again which size would you recommend for kitchen thoughts please thank you
Just tell me what to buy, where to buy it and how to use it to put one of these out.
Watching while charging a li-ion battery is great for your heart presure 😂
What is a recommended storage option for lithium ion batteries when not in use?, ie, fire proof safe, etc. Thank you.
Cold brine nails them as shown in Europe but a refrigerated cold brine fire engine seems a little unlikely. I am surprised that the application of salt and room temperature water doesn't help but maybe the additional conductivity cause even worse energy release.
What chemicals neutralize the reaction
What about charging in the oven (off of coarse) isn’t it fire resistant to prevent from spreading???
Definitely better than anywhere that is near anything combustible.
Luved Cleveland voicing it. Hilarious!!
What kind of fire blanket can you use on ebike battery fires?
A fire blanket only contains the fire, it will not extinguish the fire. The bigger issue is the amount of flammable gasses that are released. If the battery is big enough, it can cause a small explosion in the room that the batteries fail in.
Is it advisable to use a ABC rated fire extinguisher as opposed to using H2O?? i have heard the hydrogen Cyanide gasses released will not allow water to penetrate , any truth to that ? Would like to hear from a firefighter on this Subject , as i work in construction , we have several ion lithium batteries in our companies trucks and job-sites . Would like to get info on this to bring up at our next safety meeting
ABC extinguisher will not work. Water works the best because it is really good at cooling. However, you need large quantities of water.
@@StacheDTraining fully immersion will work , i had a very big ebike exploding in my room i picked with some bed covers really fast and trow it to the baththub but you need to be very quick the fire was going everywhere
@@JK-tb8nsYou got some balls there bud.
Must suck for anyone with shower's only :(
i think it's remiss to not mention how you cannot put these fires out with water. They will happily continue to burn brilliantly even while you douse them with water. You need very specialized methods to extinguish them. However, like you mentioned, they will likely be over by the time a first responder arrives - and the conventional fires this event started are the bigger concern. Not trying to condemn this message, it is a great video and running is likely the best option - just wanted to mention this important fact if you must deal with the fire.
If the untrained tries to fight these fire, without proper PPE, they are likely to get injured. Inhaling the byproducts of a failure can be fatal.
New fear unlocked when seeing someone charging their cell phone or laptop on a plane
I may do a video on this in the future. Battery fires on airplanes are WAY more common than people realize. Approximately 3 per week.
thats why was forbidden tho sip big lipo batteries by plain @@StacheDTraining
So to be clear, we should have a fire extinguisher but not use it on these batteries, and instead leave the vicinity because of the toxic fumes?
Is there a particular mask that could be worn to deal with the fumes while we use an extinguisher?
Or am I missing something?
It really depends on the battery size and the size of the room where the failure occurs. Small batteries will burn out quickly, and a fire extinguisher could help knock down the fire before the fire department arrives. Fires are dynamic, and the risk of injury is significant.
If a large device falls, leave it and call the fire department. Don't waste any time getting them on the way.
Unfortunately, there is no recommendation on a mask. We use a self-contained breathing apparatus, which means we are breathing air from a bottle. We do not filter the air from the fire room.
DON'T GO NEAR THEM! TRUST ME
The future looks bright ... and very hot.
Looking at my Two Jackery LifePo4 power stations like bombs now
Unless you're abusing it, I wouldn't worry too much.
Until the great Chinese balloon emp comes our way! Lol! Hopefully they won't trigger them and ignite fires!
A lithium battery is a bomb that can store electricity, for a while.
This is how i woke up this morning. 2am.. heard what sounded like hissing & loud pops outside our bedroom window. There was a large campfire sized fire next to the house across the alley. It was shooting out fireballs & starting more fires where they landed. As I scrambled for my phone to call 911, two guys came down & stomped it out. Ok, that's weird. But i was really tired so laid back down. 5 mins later a loud POP.. fire started back up. Guy came down with fire extinguisher & put it out again. Now i'm awake so i get up to pee. Coming back from the bathroom I hear another explosion. Fire started again. By now the guy is calling the fire dept & ambulance bc his feet were burnt. I could hear him on the phone with the dispatcher. Guess it started in his house so he threw it outside. When fire trucks got there you could see a MASSIVE amount of smoke coming out of the house. I heard him tell 911 it was a battery but i didnt hear what from. The way it kept starting back up & shooting out fireballs was freaking terrifying. Never in my life have i seen something like that.
EDIT: found out it was an electric bike!!
That would be very chaotic. Hopefully your neighbor had a good recovery. Burns are a real concern, but inhaling the smoke can be even more damaging.
@@StacheDTraining i just found this out by watching your video!! 😯
UPDATE: just found out it was an E-bike!! 😶
HI WELL I have a fire extinguisher designed for lithium ion fire but based on what I have tried to research you wonder if a concern is we know I think in the case . OF alchol just because the extinguisher could handle the hazards I don't know that means the human body can even if a fire extinguisher could put out the fire it does not mean you body could take the nasty products given off by the fire I though I even did read this could generate a toxic gas that could corrode lungs if burned ? I meant the lrhiui ion battery in my lap top??
When a single cell goes into thermal runaway, you aren't going to stop that process with an extinguisher. I've seen the extinguishers designed for Lithium-Ion batteries. I'm not 100% sold on their effectiveness. My goal is to do some testing on different products sometime in the future.
@@StacheDTraining I may have said something where else perhaps more concerning is even if an extinguisher could handle the hazards is there perhaps the issue that the burning chemical could crate a gas that could possibly corrode lungs which is possibly more concerning that if your extinguisher works I am in a condo in would think if a fire in ,you lap top got to bad the sprinkler will activate to prevent total involvement of room?
Again you wonder if any of the burning gases were corrosive to the lungs perhaps that is more a concern that trying to put the fire out the good news about the chemical I have here it could be a back up if I have a grease fire if for some reason my dry chemical fails!
@@Fredengle they are absolutely harmful to your lungs.
All I can really say us in have seen the fact video they put out the lithium ion fire I think by first applying halos than use lots of water it seems they use about 4 or 5 bottle service and if goes out ideas?
if the fire started can i do this??
get a tower wet it then grab the ebike battery unit then dunk it in drum of water
Now they indicate to not park your electric car in the garage or near your house! What?! So, how does one charge it then? How does one keep it secure away from vandals and theives? What if you live in an area that does not allow parking on the street? The whole idea of this is ridiculous. Keep your gas vehicle. Its safer for everyone, including the planet.
thats a lot of YOU
Interesting video, but you don't answer the question you pose: "Can Lithium-ion Battery Fires be Extinguished: Small/Medium Devices"
I think that the best strategy for fighting these fires would be to bury it in sand. It will not out the fire out, but it will stop it from spreading, and if you use enough sand it will absorb ejected cells. Unfortunately the amount needed for an EV fire is probably several tons of sand...
Most people won't have access to sand at the time of a failure. You'd need quite a lot of sand for most e-mobility devices. I talk about burying electric vehicles here: ruclips.net/video/CVUAzFzKhw8/видео.html
👀😡
Will never own a firetrap E-bike!
I heard that LiPO batteries are the issue not lithium it's for lithium polymer batteries that are
Lipo goes up just like li ion does . Life p04 doesnt do what the others do . They just vent but dont ignite . Ah so green batteries are . Nice toxic fumes to damage your lungs .
if water puts the fire out just pour water on it so your whole house or apartment building doesn't burn down killing many people, 911 takes too long to come help
It's all dependent on the size of the battery. For a small battery, the risk of injury is small. For a large battery pack (like an e-bike) the average person will not have enough volume of water available to battle the fire. They will likely get severely injured in the process.
@@StacheDTraining yea, but can the flames or fire at least be douzed by an average person using an extinguisher nearby, no matter the volume?
I had a battery fire in my house with a large electric skateboard battery and my spraying it with a garden hose on full blast didn't seem to do anything. That was after I had already broke my front living room window and threw it outside with a shovel.
What I find odd is that there are no safety systems available for these small devices and such limited amount of useful information to help people stay safe.
For example, and this is not a criticism of this video, but to tell people not to charge their escooters or bikes or hover boards in their home is a none starter, most people don't have secure alternatives open to them, they have to charge in their flat or house.
But what would be good is if a safe charge box could be produced at a reasonable price, often fire safety stuff is expensive, which puts people off, but perhaps a corner of a room could be designated the charge zone and kitted out with stuff that had been tested and shown to provide x amount of safe time to escape or perhaps have a vented safe zone so if a fire starts the gasses would be vented outside the property into the air, a one way valve flap type through an open window for example.
Demonstrations of the effectiveness of such systems.
Perhaps even just keeping the device cooler with water or just getting out the property.
I wonder how many people charge their phone in a safe bag or any other safe surface, i know i don't.
I have very little space, to charge or to create a safe zone, but i do spend time checking my batteries on all my electric vehicles.
One problem, is that some things that cause these battery fires aren't completely obvious. Some are caused from manufacturing defects and also, cycling of these batteries grows these mini crystals inside, and when certain conditions are present they can essentially puncture themselves and start fires on their own, with the chances increasing as batteries get older.
@@AnunnakiAaron Yes that can be a problem, but it is a rare problem that hardly ever happens.
What is needed is a better recycling system, so batteries can easily be dropped off for recycling at a local facility.
We have rubbish bins why not battery recycling bins on the streets.
there is a box you can buy and chartge stuff inside
@@JK-tb8ns I think that is mostly for models batteries and I don't mean the models that walk down a cat walk ha ha.
No seriously, you couldn't really put a bike in the box to charge it, and some of those bike batteries don't come off easy.
So I'm thinking what if, these fire blankets were cheap enough, then someone could stand their bike on a fire blanket, and drape one over the top, so if there was a fire it would be easier to contain it if the person had no choice but to charge in house.
It would certainly spread a lot slower and maybe even be able to contain it altogether.
Perhaps even a fire blanket charging sack, that you wheel your bike into to charge it.
Any fires would be contained within the fire blanket sack.
This is just bikes I'm thinking of at the moment.
It would be a consumable and after so many months or years of service it would need to be replaced.
But it would need to be at a price that these people could afford.
We have seen how wonderful these new fire blankets are at containing battery fires it's just the next step in the evolution of fire safety.
Least ways the fire service would only need to monitor a fire in a sack rather than tackling a fire in an apartment and possibly the whole block.
you can put the battery inside the box@@flitsies
So, I should leave my cell phone burning on the table top while I call 911 ? How much would be left of my house in the 20 minutes it would take for the Fire Dept to get there ?
so the way to extinguish the battery fire is run away and maybe let the house burn down or end up with other serious house damage. uhh, no - I'll improvise and do something to get it outside
Exactly. I had a large electric skateboard where I was charging pretty large LIPO batteries in my front living room. Luckily I had just epoxied the floors in that space, so it was pretty clear, with nothing much around. Also, luckily there was a large window right next to the charger. I was in another room and heard the battery explode, and I ran into the room, and there was an inferno at the charger. Didn't take long before there was lots of smoke in the room. I immediately ran to get a shovel and ran back in to the room, where it had filled with a lot of smoke which I obviously tried not to breath and I held my breath. I broke the window and threw the burning batteries out of the house and then ran to the front where I got the garden hose and began putting small fires out in the living room from the broken window. I also was spraying the the ignited batteries, but the water was doing nothing. Its interesting that this guy is talking about putting LIPO batteries out with water.... uh, but that doesn't work. Its a self generating fire. The water didn't do much of anything. Anyway, when the fire truck arrived, I was essentially scolded for trying to do anything myself and deal with the fire. Which is a bit absurd. I know there primary concern is always for the life of people, which I guarantee you, I didn't want to die, but I also didn't want my house to burn down, so.... I took a risk and saved my house. Had I just ran outside and let the fires burn, I wouldn't have a house today. I saved my house and my quick action actually resulted in very little damage to my house. I just kept telling the firefighters, "yeah, I get it.... but I wasn't going to let my house burn down"
@@AnunnakiAaron Good job. glad you got the fire out in the house b4 the FD got there. if there was still a house to save they would have caused $1000's in water damage. Happen to a neighbor of mine with a grease fire on the kitchen stove, only a little smoke damage but many thousands in water damage.
Yeh I was thinking the same thing , especially when the phone went into thermal runaway!!
Short ans: Yes! w/a caviot. The yes is "deny oxygen". The other end should be worrysome to all. The gasses emitted don't stop emitting! A simple spark or heat source can re-ignite the gasses and if enough can cause explosive forces such as an FAE (fuel Air Explosive device) nastly weapons of war. Extricate the device to the outdoors if capable, Warning: Very hot! (no sh*t). Let the issue exhaust it's self if you don't have a flame-retardent covering. If you do have a F.R.D. (covering etc..) do not remove it, it will re-flash (high heat). If antiquated CO2 is thought of, do not use to cool!!! (only if fire present). Why: CO2 extinguishers generate Static-Electricity and the item is now a bomb awaiting this precious thing in your hand to enact justice on it's enslavers.
E people saving the earth right?
You forgot NEVER EVER get on an elevator with and E bike or scooter
Why do you keep trying water? water reacts with lithium... violently. like putting gas on fire... try something else.
These batteries do not contain lithium metal. Water is not an issue.
@@StacheDTraining Your description literally says:
"What to do if the lithium-ion batteries in consumer electronics or e-mobility devices catch on fire."
@@StacheDTraining Lithium requires air or exposure to oxygen once started a haylon system is good to put them out. The smoke smells sweet but may have serious brain risks.
@@441rider this is an incorrect statement. Lithium-ion batteries can burn in a vacuum with no external oxygen.
@@StacheDTraining No flames licking up in space, no flames in a vacuum just the heat reaction. I will put one in a sealed case with Argon or haylon purge to test with limited oxygen. Been red seal welder 25 years know a bit about fire and heat.
Think about a 50 car pile up with these batteries. These batteries are 100times more harmful to the environment than gasoline.
Don’t think so. The failure of the batteries are usually the result old age, high demand or high charge. A car accident won’t necessarily cause batteries to go critical. Gasoline fires will be a much greater risk.
@@PercivalFakemanThese batteries randomly explode while just sitting there charging.....or not charging. Gasoline motors don't typically do that.
@@mean2abroad272 they typically explode when heated into high thermal condition, meaning charging or dis charging. This could occur when battery is damaged. You are forgetting that gasoline cars burn down garages all the time. The last assessment I was aware of indicated gasoline engines burnt down approximately twice the rate as EVs. There is a problem now with a vehicle manufactured in China, not found in the United States. There are a lot of cars with batteries out there, including plug in hybrids. They are not keeping fire departments up at night. The real risks are from e-bikes, skate boards, scooters that are not properly assembled, without battery management systems.
End of the day the issue is American refuseal to develop good public transportation networks and instead rely on consumerism to try (and fail) to fix an issue caused by rampant consumerism.
@@mean2abroad272 they do it all the time in garages daily. Stop with the fake allegations. EVs have their issues and gas cars have theirs. Batteries thus far have a better record. They are part of the mix of vehicles. Can you start to have a balanced evaluation of all vehicles?
You didn't help at all on how to put one out or if it's possible and what kind of extinguisher to use??? No help at all.
That's the point of this video. There is no extinguisher that will extinguish a lithium-ion battery fire. These batteries are practically impossible for the general public to extinguish.
You cant put out any battery fire . They make their own oxygen and will burn out . Look at all the ev cars that just self combust when not being charged . Wait until an ev bus goes up and kills everone on the bus . Ah so green . Pmsl a disaster waiting to happen . I use life po4 batteries that are way safer but dont hold as much energy .
Bruh batteries are not trees
_“Would you bring a gasoline-powered scooter in your house? Absolutely not.”_
This man has obviously never owned a scooter or motorcycle.
What a useless video... I was expecting to see something like a test of various fire extinguishers and fire blankets being used to put out burning battery, not some "common sense" ramblings.
So, that's your advice? Run away? Sorry, not very helpful.
Video does not answer the question stated in the title, I have learnt nothing about combating a lithium fire bar "run away like a little bitch", what if you can't run away wise guy.
What a useless video... run lol .
Doesn't show how to extinguish. Click bait.
You are not clearly explaining if a laptop or a cell phones lithium ion battery catches on fire CAN IT BE EXTINGUISHED with the Fire Extinguisher 🧯??? Yes or no???
thank you