Why Does Manga Outsell Comics?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
- let's hope a new writer takes over spiderman soon
Webtoon: www.webtoons.com/en/challenge...
Twitter: / martian_metal
Instagram: / martian_metal
Patreon: www.patreon.com/user?u=65120249
Twitch: / martianmetal
TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@martianmetal?...
another problem is that comics have no impact on their own characters. everyone dies and gets revived frequently
Big sad faxx😊
That is literally the most brain dead take and you calling it faxx
@@Neo2004-bw5vs so you dont think it takes away the impact of deaths when you know the characters will be back 6 months later?
@@dreckigerdan8257 then a character dies it impact the other characters how they feel about this character and how it affect them then a character come back to life it doesn't really take away the impact as much as you think
@@Neo2004-bw5vs i get your point, but for me its not the same when you know that the character will be back 2 issues later
Comic industry need to learn from manga and make stories that end so new ones can begin also manga industry needs to learn from comic industry to pay their mangaka better .
*cough cough* Dragon Ball and One Piece
@@jadennavarrofilms2377 the only ones getting big cut are the ones like one piece that are extremely popular, otherwise they get shits
@@jadennavarrofilms2377 exceptions rather than the norm.
Ooooh do comic artist get paid well?
@@dark_nightwing_xl2797 probably better than mangaka ( also they get more flexible workloads) just read about the creator of Attack on Titan.
American comics need to be sold at common stores like Walmart and grocery stores, for an affordable price, and have any genre.
Also, like manga, they don't have to be in color. A good story is most important.
Yeah, they’ve been getting more and more expensive. And I agree with the lack of color idea too.
Walmart already sell cómics.😅
Main problem: DC and Marvel superhero universes had overshadowed every other western comic and they themselves have become bloated. All thanks to the comics code, created to ruin a company as an excuse of moral correctness. Before that, other genres were also very popular, like detective and horror stories.
For every gantz there's a hundred school comedies and thousands of romcoms.
For every watchmen there's a hundred marvel or dc wannabes and thousands of indies comics.
W
I agree with for most parts. I think you misunderstood what people meant by “wokeness”. They meant that the writers and other people often prioritizing their political agendas over the storytelling and charactering to the point that it have a negative impact on storytelling and character development. For manga/anime series like Naruto often allow the audience explore politic from all points of view. However, for some comic nowadays, if comic writer/artist saw their products not selling well, they often accuse comic readers of being misogynist, racist, or bigot on social media. Do you ever see someone buy something from seller that insult them? NEVER!
True. But from what I've seen is that to most "woke" is just including more minorities or LGBT folks in your work.
@@HishamA.N_Comicbroe people dont complain when that happens in an anime or manga, so why do you think they would complain in a comic?
because that is not the reason they are complaining, that is just a shield the authors are using against criticism
@@HishamA.N_Comicbroemost of the time it’s because they race swap characters to be a minority and use it as a shield. As for gays these authors make having a sexual preference the personality of the character and it comes no deeper than that. It’s complained about for good reason it’s shallow and surface level.
@@HishamA.N_Comicbroe Movie is bad, "Well lets blame the audience for being racist"
Fans hate it when you cast the wrong actor for the job.
studios probably noticed, and decided to change the races of character on Purpose, so they can use that actor to defend the bad movie by calling them racist.
Fans hate it when an actor is too short, you think changing there race wouldn't have a bigger reaction.
When was the last time it caused you to drop a book?
Especially in the big leagues like Batman or Spider-Man
I remember a few months ago going to local comic books shop, picking up random DC Joker book, opened it up to random page just to see the art style and THE JOKER WAS PREGNANT. He was not a woman, a witch casted a spell which made the normal male Joker become pregnant with a baby and I put the book down and didn't go back for over a month. I didn't buy anything. I just did not agree with what they were trying to pass off. No thank you!
Noway😊
he wasn't pregnant
If you want, there's a manga about the Joker taking care of a baby Batman
It was not a real pregnancy, and magic was involved as well. Just look up casually comics were she talks about the story.
i read it and man is it a big pile of fanfic which isnt necessarily bad but it was weird, maybe its because im not a parent but my biggest "complaint" was they LET HIM INTO CITY HALL he is the joker for crying out loud wheres the police even if hes not causing havoc(he mightve if you read it and know what im talking about) but either way ill still has a wholesome charm tho (oddly) and is decent @@Lumbum21
When it comes to woke, comics tend to go overboard. Or just write essays in one panel, like I am not Starfire.
The same writer also wrote one of the best Batman stories so who really cares
@crystalblade13
Ok bro, explain she-hulk.
Although comics have had diversity and politics in the past, The types of diversity we get now are forced diversity and is usually at the cost of a long standing character. The way we consume media has changed so now, politics is always at the forefront whether we want it or not. Due to this people are seeing the politics as something they don't want in the comics anymore. So this forced diversity and politics together is seen forced in to us in certain types of media. Therefore it is now been ladled as woke when shown in comics. (An example of non forced diversity character is Miles Morals, and therefore is character is seen in a positive light)..
Also you need to consider the way the politics and diversity is handled in manga vs comics. As i mentioned above diversity issue is regards to Miles Morales. Also diversity is NOT usually a motivating factor in story's when told in manga, but in comics IT IS a motivating factor which is a turn of and often seen seen as woke. Politics in manga is just art of the organics part story of the story being told, whereas comics is is usually commenting on current issues and being told that is this issue is bad and you are bad if you don't believe the same. (just look at all the trump reference in modern comics).
The main point is how diversity is and politics are handled in manga vs comics. manga handles in a organic manner in terms of story while comics it is just put there for the writer motivation not the for the story and that is why in regards to diversity and politics comics is seen as woke.
It’s so confusing to jump into American comics for me. I don’t know where to start and I can’t tell what is important to read or what to skip since everything gets rebooted every 2 seconds.
It's actually funny the fact you said that in 2023, when in 1986 they made Crisis on Infinite Earths because of exactly the same problem, readers didn't knew where to start reading.
"this video isn't about manga being better than comics"
* Proceeds to explain why manga is better than comics *
Oh, and wokeness is definitely the main factor in the decline of western comics. WC nowadays are way too focused on pushing a one sided far left message instead of writing good stories.
6:00 The problem with this is that while, sure..There IS politics within manga & anime, manga does not deliver politics in such a way that comic books will (modern day comics). There IS in fact a right and wrong way of using politics to make for a great story. Code Geass is a great example of it being utilized the right way. Unfortunately with the comic books, you're constantly getting beat over the head with ideologies, propaganda, agendas etc.. So much so that it breaks immersion.. I'm also not saying manga is better than comics and vice versa as they both have their pros/cons. I like both.
beat over the head? i've read my fair share of (modern) comics and the most you see is mildly annoying "love is love" rhetoric.
@@comicalsansms8238 i am not a huge comic reader but modern comics are full of this stuff.
i tried out "joyride" by boom studios. a science fiction comic. after 2 issues i gave up.
the main heroine acted like a little entitled brat and she constantly jelled all the words modern activists yell.
i think a huge part of the success of anime/manga is that its pure wish fulfillment. its fantasy and thats it.
another thing is that in manga everything goes. there is something for everyone. there are so many different genres.
the next thing is that manga actively allows you to be a fan of a figure. it may be weird but i think hentai pictures and hentai doujins are a huge part of why manga today are more popular than comics. because comics seem tame and lame compared to manga today.
you see this kind of weird culture with wattpad and fanfiction too, but you dont see it with comics.
i believe this plays a huge part in why manga is more popular. there still are new things in manga. there are new genres.
in comics the genres are fixed and nobody will invent something new anymore. so in a way you can be more creative with manga too.
Weeb trying not to be bies challenge impossible
For me as someone who almost only reads manga, a big factor is art style and experimentation. Comics feel so tied down by use of color, panel formatting, and needing everything to look semi-realistic. Manga is less afraid to experiment with its art style, tell a insane story that structurally isn’t the norm but conveys a great overall theme (ex: Fire Punch). The only comics I personally loved outside of Archie when I was a kid have been Alan Moore’s comics. They actually play with the format, have a complete story, and feel like they exist because the author is passionate about an idea rather than other comics which may feel more industrialized rather than be about an individuals vision.
I think it's less about experimentation and more than japanese manga tend to have a more (For a lack of a better word) attractive and stylized appearance than western comics, who tend to prefer either semi realistic or grittier artwork.
The lack of variety is definitely a big problem. No matter how much you spin it, all those stories are Still just about a bunch of super-heroes put in different scenarios. No matter how much you like those characters it will become tedious after a while, like eating the same dish every day.
Meanwhile in manga, barring some spin-offs or sequels like with Dragon Ball, you get a new setting and new set of characters each time. And the genre variety is just so wide, from battle mangas to camping stories.
Probably the closest thing to American Superhero comics' problem is the Isekai genre which is just so cookie cutter these days.
Three reasons: There is a beginning and an end to the story, the story can be read without any illusions about the values associated with men or women. It has many, many kinds of stories.
Your point about diversity is very flawed.
The characters aren't asain to pander to diversity, the characters are Asian because the writers are Asain.
When people talk about forced diversity they mean race swapping characters lecturing the audienced on why being a cis white male is bad. Adding token black characters that have nothing to add to the story apart from being there so that western critics don't cry racism. Making every superhero's successor gay. And having gay characters in the story who's only qualifying characteristic is them being gay.
Its fine to have gay characters as long as they are characters first and gay second just like how you have straight characters who's primary characteristics are their temperment their talents, their goals, and their journey. Gay characters and token black characters aren't treated in this way. We are all meant to just sit there and be amazed at "oh look an openly gay man i bet you haven't seen that before."
Like come on bro this isn't the 80s that shit isn't amazing or brave. The one time ive actually seen a gay character that i enjoyed was in an anime called Akame Ga Kill. The character was gay but served as the protagonist's mentor he was very strong talented and brave and later dies in the story in order to save the rest of the cast. My point being that despite being gay he was a character first he had an important role in the story that did not revolve around his sexuality. Comics do not do this.
Manga focuses on storytelling first and politics later, comics focuses politics first and foremost.
"The gay character that I enjoyed was where their gayness didn't actually matter." I think there's a fine line between normalizing being minority and "lecturing" people like you claim. Have you ever noticed how sometimes black people just exist in real life, even though their blackness doesn't add anything to the "story"? Or rather, their blackness is absolutely essential to their story, but it's just not obvious to people who don't have that lived experience.
"Manga focuses on storytelling first and politics later." Bro, what kind of privileged life do you lead where you can separate politics from stories? For POC, queer people, disable people, and any other minority, existence IS political. Akira is political, One Punch Man is political, Dragonball Z is political.
But hey, sorry that comics aren't pandering to your escapist needs.
@@ndylion *apolitical* The politics in manga are just part of the story and it was never the story itself. Perfect example of this is 86. There's racism on that anime and yet it only serves as one of the major key points of the story...but never the whole story itself.
And btw, one should really learn how to separate what's real from fiction. Because fiction make sense while reality doesn't.
@@ndylion First of all I AM BLACK my existence is NOT political. I don't need a white dude to lecture me on my own experiences. Me being black has little to do with my politics this isn't the 1960s anymore.
I hate this leftist lense of viewing everything as political it's tiring. You can have good stories without being overtly political. Look at the movie blade for instance he is a black vampire slayer but his blackness is simply a neutral characteristic it does not define him or play a key role in his story.
As black dude I rather have characters like that than token black characters who's only contribution to the story is being there so that the movie isn't accused of being racist.
If we are going to have minority characters then at least make them matter to the story and have their character development revolve around experience that don't need to revolve around their racial or sexual lense. Just like we treat white characters as characters first.
@@biggnesss7192 I understand your point about token representation and how that's problematic because it removes good representation, and of how these stories are usually written by white people. I think I got hung up on your point about diversity, and assumed you were saying we should just ignore it in stories.
I guess I projected and was assuming you thought Miles Morales was an example of forced diversity.
However, I do think everyone's existence is inherently political, because we live in a political world. But I feel like that itself is a separate discussion than what the original video is talking about, so I'll apologize for my misinterpretation about your points about forced diversity. That being said, with current events, I do think normalization of minority representation in traditionally white spaces is important. However, is it worth being tokenized? I'm not sure still.
@@TheLonelyLurker1995 I have no idea what you're talking about man
Honestly I think a lot of it comes down to cost. Comics are absurdly expensive if you're not buying full on novels. Manga meanwhile tends to be decently cheap all things considered. Shonen jump's subscription service is really cheap if I recall and manga books tend to come in smaller 200-300 page books that cost like 12-18 US bucks usually. That high page count and how manga is distributed also makes the reading experience more linear usually too, where as comics are often bought as multiple series that sort of intertwine together in 20-45 page paper backs that cost maybe 5 or so dollars. For the amount you get they're much more expensive and you kinda need to buy from multiple series just to see where the story's fully going. Their smaller size also makes them much harder to sell in more traditional ways as well, as buying new each week or month can really rise the cost of shipping and places like bookstores cant really stock stuff like that in the way they can a manga. They're also just much harder to store in general and more prone to damage due to not even having a normal book cover, since they're more comperable to magazines in terms of their paper quality really. Its hoesntly why i see more graphic novels and comic compilations for sale when ever im out than actual comics. Even the old shonen jump magazines were more practical since they were a compilation of book chapters so they generally were like a few hundred pages due to all the stories they contained and in tern were able to be sold in magazine stands at a reasonable price. The lack of color also helps manga be cheaper, since it cuts down on printing prices I imagine vs comics.
6:10 its FORCE IN YOUR FACE WOKENESS
Anime is not woke at all.
Anime has had LGB characters since i could Breathe.
Woke writers are focusing all the effort into making the story diverse and woke instead of making inpactful characters and showtelling.
If your woundering if its getting bad, thats the reason.
It its the main reason, but anyone who hires someone based on how diverse they are probably isn't making good decides overall.
I don't need to know that being WHITE STRIAGHT & MALE, makes you a Sexist, Racist, Homopobic, Evil, Piece of trash.
Why do i know the way people vote before i even read the book.
What comics need is to have a similar relationship that manga has with anime where for the most part they follow the same story/plot, I believe the lack of interconnectivity is one major reason why comics are falling behind manga as there is no enticement to read the comics from watching a TV series or movie that is inspired by the comics but not actually based off them.
I'd genuinely love to get the anime treatment for comic stories. I'm just imagining a one to one adaptation of Stan Lee and Ditko's run on Spider-Man or other iconic storylines.
You didn't mention the format of Manga books fitting nicely on bookshelves versus single issues of comic books, as well as the price difference of a new comic book costing about 4 to 5 dollars for 22 pages versus a Manga book costing 7 to 10 bucks for over a hundred pages.
To be fair comic are colored and manga is not unless it mawha light novels that are colored and cost double the manga cost for the color and thicker page quality. So comics are priced ok manga is priced ok and manwha are ok too. Not a good counterargument
Also someone mentioned graphic novels and they cost about the price between manga and manwha colored light novels which makes sense, better quality.
Nobody reads single issues physically dawg just buy the their trades
Another amazing video, very well explained I'm your fan. Please keep doing what you doing nice job Martian Metal.
My hot take: Manga travels better, it's more cost effective and cheaper for the consumer, there's anime, more variety, and there's less convoluted canon to deal with (with the exception of a few of the longer running series). Manga's more consistent too. When western comics have a good story they have a REALLY good story. When Manga has a good story some of it's lost in translation or a little bit too simple. But when western comics have a bad story it's really bad. When western comics try to moralize or add social issues these days, it lacks subtlety, it's delivered in such a ham-fisted way that it turns you off. Manga, on the other hand, tends to be either more subtle or it's once again lost in translation.
What do I think western comics need to do? They can't preach more than they entertain, or else they'll turn the reader off. They need to set a bunch of their major titles back to the 80s and 90s status quo. Peter Parker's gotta have Mary Jane back. The X-Men need to be reset to the X-Mansion era. A hell of a lot of characters that didn't get traction need to be wiped out, while those that gained traction need a boost. Change the format to be more like mangas; they had a good start with the graphic novel format, but they need to lower costs by going back to cheaper paper, inks, even black and white. Bring down costs so we don't end up paying $5.99 for a single issue! Make comics and graphic novels in a way that are easier to travel and read on the move. Make the characters and comics more self contained, no 'major events' every year. If you're gonna make a new character don't just piggyback on the fame of another (that's why we have too many Spider-People). I could go on, but you get the idea.
What western comics need to do is a complete teardown and revamp of not just their properties but their entire business model. Otherwise Manga's gonna keep kicking their asses.
5:51 "Diversity and Politics is incredibly prevalent in Anime and Manga"
And they get their Diversity and Politics RIGHT AND ARE LIKEABLE. The same cannot be said for Western Comics.
A perfect example to show how different both are, is using the Gay Superman Protesting for Climate Change Activism...Versus One Punch Man's "Neo Heroes" opposition to the Corrupt Hero Association.
Japan gives solution's to their Political Problem's, and makes Diversity acceptable and fun and likeable and not a Woke Quota you have to check on a list given to you by the Woke Leftist Mob.
Japan is Bite while the Woke Western Comics Industry is all Bark. Their response to Misogyny is just making their female characters incredibly Misandrist, All powerful Mary Sues. Japan does the opposite when tackling Misogyny.
And the list goes on and on.
W Manga and Anime.
L Comics and Movies.
I think Chuck Dixon, popular comic writer and creator of Bane amongst many others, said it best in one of his QnA videos he posts on his channel. With comics when you go into a typical store you have Spider-Man, Batman, Wonder Women, alongside some more out there high concept ideas maybe made by Image but you'll see a lot with a good guy fighting a bad guy, normally with some powers. With manga, you can have a manga all about fishing and have it not only be a very relaxed read whilst also having some of the most gorgeous, well-rendered fish money shots that the author pain stakingly drew because goddamn it he wanted to draw that fish. There's manga about samurai, there's manga about being in a music band, there's manga about swimming, there's manga about playing video games, there's manga about high fantasy, urban fantasy, or sci-fi fantasy, there's manga about giant robots, there's manga about a guy who is just eternally on fire, there's manga about making manga, there's manga about whatever the hell BLAME is about, there's manga about playing shogi, there's manga about war, there's manga about cute girls in war representing tanks, there's manga about cooking, there's manga about serial killers, there's manga about hopes and aspirations, manga about running a business, and so on and so forth.
It goes with what you said about you not knowing the story already due to it being new. Comics have been suffocated by superheroes that it's all that people know about comics but in the same vein, people think they already know everything about comics due to that misconception. Every hero has an origin story, every hero has their rogues gallery or if they're a little edgy they kill their villains, they struggle with real life stuff, etc. Comics/Manga is one of the best ways to give a clear idea of what an artist has in mind for their story. Books leave a lot to interpretation, movies and films usually have so many hands on the project it becomes a mix of ideas which is great in and of itself. But when you find a good comic/manga, it feels personalised to that artist. It's what can make it feel so unique.
Omg this is legitimately the first video I've seen that actually talks about this topic is a structured and respectful way that isn't just "hurr durr manga better cuz woke" great video, looking forward to more
Thanks man. I have another video talking about the differences between the fight scenes in comic books and manga. Thanks for watching.
Yeah cuz this guy actually knows comic & manga thoroughly and has read many of them whereas the others just don't.
@@martianmetal I need to get your facts straight cuz manga is going to last why comic books are not going to last much longer just like Marvel and DC and everything else not going to last so shut up I don't want to hear it
@@cjcj4861 comics are going to last. They’re the reasons why movies making it big at the box office like avengers infinity war and endgame even exist. The merchandise, the adaptations, etc. comics will last a long time.
@@martianmetal no they're not that why anime is killing the sales and Marvel and DC is dying except Fatboy I want to that bullshitI don't care so your salty ass
Shoutout to you for talking about Origin, so underrated glad it is finally getting English translations. Volume 2 is on its way right now.
Saw Kaiju No. 8 featured
😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
HAVE MY THUMBS UP DEAR SIR!
Thanks man
I agree with most points, but I thought you should've pointed out that NOT ALL COMICS ARE SUPERHEROES. Comics is just a medium in the end of the day, and there ARE original comics out there with clear beginnings and endings. You just have to look outside of DC and Marvel. Also, original graphic novels exist, which A TON of kids read today!
Oh i get that. It’s just that when people compare the 2 medias, they basically only compare superhero comics to manga in general. I’m aware of the others. I’ve read a few myself
That's kind of the issue though. It's superheroes being pushed so much because big companies like Disney and Warner Bros owns the Big Two. They're so heavily promoted, Marvel especially, that it just overshadows the rest. Meanwhile with manga, a lot of different series from different genres gets into discussions that's not just Dragon Ball or One Piece. I'm also aware of other types of comics, like stuff from Image or Dark Horse, but unless you're DC or Marvel, you might as well be irrelevant and I hate that so much.
i think you forgot to talk about european comics though. people only focus on marvel and dc in this discussion but never hear someone bringing up other comics that arnt from those companies. i read the spain noir comic called Blacksad wich is fantastic and i still wonder why never got the atention it deserves word wild. not to mention, here in argentina we have "El Eternauta", an alien invesion story that simbolize a criticims of the military dictatorship that was going on in my country duirng the 1976.
keep going this a great video
6:09 "Those same things people complain about in comics are in manga and anime"
This, is a MASSIVE, Red Flag. It seems you really dont understand why People are mad at Woke Garbage then. 🤦♂️
The american comic model was doomed to fail no matter what. The wokeness in modern comic books is simply a giant staggering nail in a coffin already filled with them.
I wont go into the details but Ill summerize it as this: if harry potter or lord of the rings worked as how a marvel or DC comic book did, they wouldnt be heralded as the great works of fiction they are.
Imagine if lord of the rings wasn't three books but 200, with spinoff books, side stories, one off books, crossovers and prequels. Imagine if Frodo went back in time, went into space, met his clone, fought ender wiggins, teamed up with Sherlock Holmes to defeat frankenstein, and he STILL hadnt gotten to mt doom!
Would you read that? Would anyone read that? I certainly wouldn't.
as someone new to "Comics"... what has drawn me to manga initially is that many , are nice little books that offer alot of pages for the price... comic books remind me of magazines and get worn out quickly or take up too much space in my bag. and my bag is pretty big.. i like the form factor of manga books...
ps.. volumes , graphic novels aside... i do not like the price i pay for singles that i can read in a few minutes.
Invincible feels like it gets all the good parts of comics *and* the good parts of manga.
The thing is, any comparison of each is fraught.
This is because both of them - manga and comics, are storytelling mediums, there is far too much diversity to make any useful generalization.
The thing to note is, what trends in either industries are being prioritised?
Manga was, and always has been, a ruthless meritocracy - fame of the author is not worth the paper the manga is printed upon if it doesn't sell well. This is how they get objectively superior stories than comics like One Piece or AoT or Code Geas, but also tolerate shit like the numerous isekais that proliferate the market because, well, the public is crazy over them.
Meanwhile, comics aren't that connected to their audience anymore, or think that the vocal minority, is their audience. They prioritise delivering the intended moral of their story before telling a good story - this is problematic because telling a good story is necessary to establish why the moral of the story is desirable, because the story is proof. The devil lies in the details. Think about it this way, if Vinland Saga would have been a shit story, would people be willing to accept what it preaches?
Honestly, I am an Indian, this is relevant because I have been introduced to both forms of media at different points in my life (seriously, American media was a huge deal in the 2000s decade, and is still quite important) and I am of the opinion, the comic book industry needs to die. The major names, and the filth associated with them needs to be sterilized. Indie artists will pick up the flame and make better comics. I honestly don't think there is any other permanent solution to this problem.
I think they should do more stories that FEEL disconnected from the story, like a cartoon that's sort of episodic while still focused on the continuity and growth.
And they should definitely figure out and plan out how they wanno do things with these long-time characters
Simple reason Manga have a consistent storyline where there is a clear origin, middle and end which comics especially the Big two Marvel and DC don't. New readers are probably confused and intimidated by the fact that popular heroes like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and Spiderman have decades long history of canon to follow to understand their stories
I remember hearing from someone that DC and Marvel should do something similar like the Shounen Jump magazines
great video
thanks
6:30 bruh understanding comics with so many comic series is almost as bad as watching sports and knowing history. bc its not self contained. the side adventures are good but sometimes they are cut short bc they don't have sales or interest.
manga reading from chapter 1 to the end is so much easier
Great points and well stated; but I think you misunderstand how modern politics negatively impacts comics. I think when it comes to social justice, most people have issues with it coming at the cost of good writing. I have a feeling if these diverse and socially topical characters were well written, these types of comics would receive way less pushback. (For instance, Miles Morales is a relatively recent Marvel Character who fits the image of diverse but is met with lots of positivity from Spiderman fans) I think many comic fans are tired of feeling like big comic companies are using modern politics as a pandering tool to bolster sales of largely bad comics.
Your channel is fresh water in a desert
Thank you
Thanks man that means a lot to me
Great video man, really gave me a lot to think about. Something that I'm interested now is in the difference of editing between western comics and manga. It seems like big comic stories are dictated by a large board of directors, or at least that's the perception I have. The comic is an IP and a product, and it better be safe. But is there that for manga, or do mangaka have more creative freedom?
Now that I think about it. I think Maga has a bigger risk as in the publishers will stop selling the manga is sales are low. But that comes with the greater creative freedom. While Comics have a "safety net" in the IP they can use. But will have to follow certain rules with the characters they use. I think i don't know actually.
Fun fact when Akira toriyama made cell he was happy with it but the editors told him to change it so there is some editor medelling in manga industry
Goodvideo my guy
Heyo, mah' dude. Just a few things.
I would argue, as others commenters kind of have already, that there is a "too many cooks" problem with the Lion's Share of Western media. Comics, movies, video games, etc., I see it crop up more and more. A sort of "design by committee" feel. I'm reminded of an old adage that's been floating around in forums since the mid 00's: "The 10/10's and 0/10's come from Japan, the 5/10's come from the States."
And yes, there can be exceptions, but once again, I'm speaking in generalities.
I also don't think you really got at the core of the "woke-ness, politics, diversity, etc." aspect in the middle of the vid. I mean, can we really say something is or isn't there, if we can't agree on terms and definitions? It just becomes a shuffling of semantics at that point, I'd argue.
I'd offer this as a possible example of what I think some people consider "wokeness" in media, a little vector it might be approached by: is the media in question just blatantly preaching to you? Is it unabashedly propagandistic towards a certain ideological slant? Put another way, is the "Devil given his due" when villains or antagonistic forces are represented? If not, then I question if it could actually be called diverse. Because even if you have every color of the rainbow on the page, if everyone pretty much thinks the same way, is it real diversity? Doesn't diversity of thought trump a diversity of skin color, etc.?
If not, then I'd argue you have mere tokenism.
But hey, that's just my quick two cents.
Movies, tv shows & video game adaptations distill the essentials & leave behind the "comic book cringe". After people watch/play them, then pick up the comic see weird things going on that don't match what they saw, it's a massive turn off.
Honestly comics have trouble attracting new readers. If you recommend a manga series to someone, they start at chapter 1, no problems. Want to recommend someone start reading xmen comics, good luck
I honestly don't care about superheroes characters I've already seen mutiple movies about them.
After all, there are three most important things that make manga the best: The beginning and the end of the story, the events have meaning and are still the same, the drawing is still the same.
I agree manga, light novals, and normal books are out selling comics
The best comic's batman and spiderman are simply bigger then many..they are just like us...batman is a normal guy...apider has powers...but he is a vigilante.
Just realizing comics are suffering from the idiom " too many cooks spoil the broth." Then there the "cooks" that don't understand what the characters are supposed to represent. Good examples are Taskmaster and Domino in the marvel movies. Taskmaster was a changed to a girl which to me would have been amazing! Although it was basically a soldier who could mimic "some" movements. Domino was changed from what seemed like an albino woman to a black woman. Now with the sex and race aside, can you look at them in the MCU and confidently say they embody the character genuinely? I gotta stop here or this will turn into an essay. 😅
seems like manga follow a same outline but can make changes like isekais and mainstream comics can change the story but not the character. Indie Comic's tend to have the coolest character and story ideas!
I believe, if Marvel and DC are to succeed as publishers in the future, independent of the support they get from their parent companies (movies and lunch boxes), the must go back to the original Marvel method which was very similar to current manga.
Marvel skyrocketed to # 1 in the late silver and Bronze Ages because they were moving the characters and story forward with a coherent continuity/payoffs unlike dc which was in stagnation with the villain of the month model.
doing things the same will only lead to them being one trick ponies that are living off of the original ideas of basically a handful of creators from the early to mid 20th century. that might work with the small residuals of readers from the past and might bring in a small percentage of the young market. but for sure they won't be labeled "the big two" anymore unless they act as publishers and not custodians of golden/silver age IPs.
As they are now, they are failing, they have rootless pasts (thanks to continuous retcons), and pointless futures (because no end is in sight). A character in a manga has a journey. A character in a marvel/dc comic book has an appearance.
I say this as someone who is over comics but someone who is grateful for the joy they gave me when I did read them.
Cierto, pero aún así hay gente que reniega dejar estos personajes y se aferran a ellos como niño abandonado por padre que va buscar cigarro y que la mayoría de veces le gusta es la versión comercial y reproducida del personaje,no el personaje real osea de creador original eso también es triste
My problems with Comics compared to Manga.
1. Artstyle is Unlikable, especially the Superhero Genre ones, and those that try to be "Mature and Edgy".They're boring, stale and limiting. Also hard to understand at times with their art. One of few I liked was "I Hate Fairyland". The Art style was very good, and each Book of this Comic Series explored different art styles, there was one where Gertrude, the Protagonist, got sucked into a Japanese Styled Arcade Game, where the Boss was a Yakuza Cat, and the Art style was Anime-Like. Very nice.
2. Overload of Information+Bad Artstyle. Then there's the Overload of Information and then add the Unlikable Artstyle and it gets worse. Only few Comics with actually good interesting artstyle interest me. Like an example being "I Hate Fairyland".
3. Scarcity.
When it comes to Anime, THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF "Pirate Dens" for us to "Explore" the wonder's of Anime for Free. Fun Fact, Piracy was one of the Reasons Anime got popular to begin with. (And it seems Japan has learned the Lesson that the only way to combat Anime Piracy, is by Using Ai Translations to pump out Anime faster and maybe even for Free.) But comics? No, there's not many Comic Pirate Sites, and not many to actually get a "Free Taste" of Comics. Not everyone wants to pay for dozens of comics just to finish a Story.... That's incredibly long and convoluted that ties in to other comics that isn't related to the comic you want to read, like Reading a Batman comic that sends you to a Beast Boy Comic. 🤦♂️ And if you want an "Free Taste" of Comic's you'll have to go to Comicstorian and other similar channels.
4. Iconic.
Yes, everyone knows who Batman is. But tell me, would someone pay money to Buy One Punch Man Merch and Product's? Or Batman Merch and Products? Most likely They'll buy a Saitama Action Figure than a Batman one.
And there's more but, too lazy.
Great video, and I am a comic fan, I have minor disagreements but not much
I think the main reason from my perspective before even watching the video is that:
Manga are somewhat easier to get into than Western Comics. In Western Comics there are so many different universes and timelines that run concurrently, and there is no definitive jump into comics. Like it’s kind of a gamble of where you’re jumping into. You can either read a Batman Year One (A perfect and simple way of jumping into Batman), or a The Dark Knight Returns, which is an iconic story, however it somewhat relies on the reader to have prior knowledge on Batman and his morals to truly understand/enjoy the story.
Manga on the other hand is way more straightforward to get into most of the time. Like if you wanna start One Piece you just read Volume/Chapter 1 and read on from there. Maybe read the Ace Novels and the side stories, and it’s as easy as that.
Because comic storylines can be confusing at a bunch of times
Honestly we are tired of the same recycled stories.
2:13 DC and Marvel are So Famous, yet so boring, repetitive, annoying, tiresome and many other words to describe both DC and Marvel, and Comics as a whole with some exceptions. Humans are Naturally Possessive, it's innate. Tribalism and Gatekeeping are Absolute, and their opposite leads to dark paths that dilute the Essence of what made something good in the first place. When the Old and True Fans of Comics feel that the Art has been "Desecrated", and that they have been "Replaced for a Modern Audience", they lash out (Against the Problem, the Woke, The Pandering and Fake Virtue Signalling and so on.) and then move on and vote with their Money. Comics as a whole then loses the people who'll Actually fund and pay their bills, all that's left are "The Modern Audience" or basically, tourists, Leftist Tourist who only care about Propagandizing and Politicizing whatever they can get their hands on, then move on. They come and go. They don't care about buying the comic or a ticket to the movie or buying the Merchandise. All they care about is ruining all that is good. Look at The Star Wars Sequels, Look At Echo, Look At the Rings of Power and so on.
5:43 "Even Though, Both Comics and Manga have had Politics for Decades"
Woah Woah Woah there, Hold Your Horses. DO NOT COMPARE WESTERN COMIC POLITICS AND DIVERSITY TO JAPANESE MANGA/ANIME POLITICS AND DIVERSITY. There's a difference.
In the West, just as You said, DIVERSITY AND POLITICS IS FORCED, when it doesn't need to be and doesn't even make sense. Big examples are Rings of Power and Star Wars. And that's just 2 among many that continues to grow to this very moment. Look at that Gay Superman Comic pushing Leftist Politics as an example. Leftist Politics like Homosexuality, Feminism, and Climate Activism....When Gay Superman could literally stop The Last One, Climate Change 😂 instead....He protests with other Lefists...which is a hilarious self-Own that means Leftists DONT DO ANYTHING OF VALUE. 😂
But what about Anime/Manga Politics and Diversity? I'll just call it, Manga. Manga....HAS TONS OF GENRES TO CHOOSE FROM, unlike Western Comics where despite being a Leftist you get Right Wing Comics, or if you're a Right winger you get Leftist Comics, in Manga? YOU CAN CHOOSE WHAT GENRE OF STORY YOU WANT TO READ AND SEE. It's not FORCED upon you, you, the customer or viewer, choose for yourself. If you want some Gay Manga, Choose Yaoi, Lesbian? Yuri. Straight? Romance, and so on so forth.
There's a BIG DIFFERENCE between Manga and Comics. Comics have to FORCE its unpopular content on you, but for manga? YOU YOURSELF SEEK IT OUT.
Well funny I put comics and manga together in my own series
Nice man.
It took a while to get my gf into comics cause it was hard to get her to understand how everything is sort of connected butalso isnt but it is lol. But she eventually found some mini series like the latest moon girl and devil dinosaur to get into them
Nice, put her on Batman/Superman: World's finest
Really great video as always. I've loved a lot of the recent comics coming out, especially from DC (Batman #900 being my favorite). I really hope ppl actually read comics before just falling for the comparisons. Also yeah S-M really needs a great writer.
I don't know how much Invincible fits the argument because, arguably, Invincible is a lot more similar to a manga than a Marvel/DC series. It starts at issue 1, it has a beginning and an end, and has consistent tone and theme through out.
Comics as a whole are going to be fine, the thing is that people are mistaking Marvel and DC for comic books in general, and that's due to the fact that those two companies have been synonymous for comics until now. What I think is going to happen is that the non-Marvel/DC Western comics that used to be a niche are going to generally remain a niche except for a few exceptions, so no big changes for them there, while Marvel and DC seem directed toward becoming as niche as the rest of the Western market to their stunning incompetence at managing their properties. What you will have is a comic book industry dominated by manga with the niche of Western-style comics, from American superhero to European stuff like Asterix, having its place too, just not as mainstream. In a sense, we're already at that point.
This is entirely on Marvel and DC inability to manage their series properly even in the middle of a movie craze that should have led to a boom of the comic industry. When it comes to eternal franchises like Superman and Batman what you need is either a good story that can avoid the character from becoming stale, a good reboot that's properly executed and conducted throughout, and the big two have tried both and have consistently dropped the ball over and over.
Like, we are at our second DC reboot in 10 years or something? How are you supposed to not make your new readers shrug at something like that and assume that comic book stories are incomprehensible? And the writing is just generally poor, which is what the "woke" discussion is really about. Mangas and older comics are full of politics, and people barely noticed because the political themes were handled seriously and interwoven in the setting and story of the series, while in a lot of recent comics you get what seems to be the author lashing out at people he got mad on Twitter. The problem isn't the politics, it's the bad writing, that when combined with politics because egregiously terrible.
Whats the source for the Manga at 3:18?
Ajin: Demi-Human
@@martianmetal Thanks Cabron
But the art is much better in comics. Color really makes a difference
What manga is at 3:18
Ajin: Demi-Human
@@martianmetal Thank You
So the reason people arent reading comics anymore is because "I aint reading allat"
Basically
@@ScottTangents thought this comment would be pushed down the pile so far no one could see it
Thank you
Sorry, but the "wokeness" is definitely a factor, because of how badly it's executed. Yes there is politics/diversity in manga, but it adds something to the story and is explored in great depth. With comics, it's put there to tick a box and preach to the audience. Think of Ishval in Full Metal Alchemist and how that subplot adds to the story. As a Nigerian/Cameroonian who grew up across the world, I'm tired of the diversity pandering in comics.
0:45 That isn't accurate by the way, Even the article that was used as a source for that incorrect information, try to correct it. Demon slayer did not sell one hundred million copies that year, that's just how many copies they had in circulation. If you do a bit of research, you will come across the article trying to correct the misinformation.
It’s simple. Comics need more animated adaptations (WITH GOOD ANIMATION not bad animation (cough cough invincible)
There’s so many great comics that are perfect for animated adaptations like saga or I kill giants but studios don’t realize the massive potential that has when manga adaptations (anime basically) is getting bigger and bigger.
There’s also another reason why it’s because Japanese animation studios are amazing at adapting manga, they do weekly anime or seasonal anime, fully adapted with no changes pretty much, and they usually have amazing animation, and the production is just good overall. While comic book fans get mediocre live action shows and movies (animated movies aswell) that change or sometimes ruin the source material. There’s a really obvious reason why people always want ANIME adaptions if western properties or stuff and it’s really clear
Even while stuff like invincible made the comic more popular the shows production is still horrible, ugly artstyle that doesn’t match Ryan ottleys art, bad animation (due to them fully outsourcing it to a Korean studio instead of doing it in-house, which is actually another reason why cartoons look worse compared to Japanese animation), and really pointless changes to the source like amber being a dick.
Alright I’m done whining
I think invincible has some pretty good animation, especially for the fight scenes, and the scene when Cecil blasted Omni-Man from a satellite.
Yeah, a lot of studios really don’t know the potential of adapting a comic. If a good animation studio got there hands on the x-men, it would go absolutely crazy.
I think it’s mainly because movies and live action are kind of comic’s thing, and animes are manga’s thing, you know what I’m saying? I kind of like when the movies take a different approach to the comic, because i like when writers try to show a different take then the original story, to see how it goes.
I think invincible was pretty good. Thought the artstyle was good and animation. I haven’t read the comic but they really shouldn’t have made amber that way. I understand her frustrations in the relationship but she went on about it completely horribly.
Wokeness is not having a LGBT or black char. Like many mangas.
Wokeness is changing a char skin with decades of existence. Is changing a char sexuality with decades of existence. Just for the sake of it.
I see that happening with comics. But not with mangas.
IMHO of course.
It’s because comic has colours
Japan puts way more effort into their work, that's it.
You forget about European comics.
because, NEVER ending reboots, until they ruin characters,
Nah. Wokeness killed comics slowly. It's ok to say it. Because it's true. Every bad writing decision, every bad hiring choice, every journalist who demonised the fans and every writer who chased away the audience can all be traced back to being woke. It is what it is.
I wouldn’t put it exactly like that. Only recently in the 2010s-2020s has this “wokeness” been more prevalent. Many writers have made horrific, abysmal decisions since the 80s. This “wokeness” people talk about has only really been a recent thing in the past couple of years compared to the decades that comics have been out.
And it’s not not true to think that every single bad hiring choice, bad writing decision, bad journalist ever is because of woke. A writer wanted Wonder Woman to be straight up SA’d. that was a bad decision, not caused by wokeness. In the Ultimate universe, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch who are siblings, were in a relationship. That wasn’t wokeness.
@@martianmetal también el echó desde los 2000 eventos interminables que juegan muy mal a los que está escribiendo run , por ejemplo el escritor ed brubarker se fue muy molesto de dc ya que los eventos interferian en su trabajo
Because Manga writers have talent in story telling while their counterparts, the western comic writers, rarely has.
Eh not completely true, there's alot of manga that just suck like a majority of the isekai genre
That's just purely wrong, many mangas are bad as well, and comics have many many talented writers too
Hard disagree, anyone can be a good or bad writer, There's many manga that re-hash the same ol' tropes and cliches.
You definitely didn’t watch the video lol
You can see that about both manga and comics honestly. You can’t really compare the 2 in that regard.
I prefer manga simply for better story telling
manga has 1 problem . shonen. its generic most of the time. comics have a few problems. 1 poorly written romance elements tacked on nobody cares about. 2 tons of back log . even in localized stories like some wolverine solo run type stuff its got the back log for each character thats in it. you pick it up toady your lost. marvel got around this with reboots like ultimate and all new marvel. but that only lasts so long. backlog is only a problem for one piece, bleach and naruto mostly. most manga will not have 200 issues they are made to end before that typically and even when it is a issue you started with pirate stuff (be honest). you buy when you like and its for sale in america maybe. xmen you cant find 100% of the issues even with pirate and its not even all for sale in reprint
Yea you’re doing the same thing that most of people do, you’re mixing up politics and propaganda. Plenty of comics have politics, but it’s not politics that’s the problem in comics over the last few years, it’s heavy left wing propaganda that’s the issue.
And manga is successful because it has diversity, but it has clear genres. All the LGBT content is in LGBT manga, it’s not in mainstream Shonen. Whereas comics stuffs everything into the mainstream comics.
It's actually a bad thing for queer people to only be in shitty queer romance stories and nowhere else.
Yo dude if you talk about that trash spiderman run you gotta put the Spider-Man fake red manga in there as a way for fans to see Spider-Mans brilliance
Yo honestly i was considering reading that manga I’ve seen a lot of good things about it and the art looks amazing. I’ve considered making a video about it when i get to reading it.
@@martianmetal hope you do bro cause it's definitely underappreciated and is a good book, I've read it twice already and it still invokes the feeling of classic spiderman stories
Because Manga gave a conclusive end even if rebuted it got conclusion while Comics keep on coming and coming.
So. Either you end it as hero of live long enough to see yourself got aWOKEn.
Cringe
@@tracark2255 thanks for caring. But i don't know you. Please don't act like we buddies. That's Cringe.
This entire video for the most part does not take indie comics or non-big two western comics into account. There are literally hundreds of American, Canadian and Western, studios and imprints out there, producing graphic novels and comics that focus on other subject matter than the Super Hero Genre. Comics and Superheroes do not have to be synonymous with one another.
Variety, No in your face political agendas, and Storys that aren’t episodic or splits into multiple universes,
All these culminate into Manga being the better medium for most people.
Manga : has character development, has world building, has well written characters, has good plot story
American comic : has identity politics, has 37 genders, has 53 skin colours, has 28 sex orientation
0:42 Demon Slayer was coming to an end normally media gets a rise in popularity when it comes to an end.
I am tired of people forgetting this fact just to hype up manga.
Before watching I would assume it's a simple population thing. More Asians more manga
Comics have always been political people can’t keep blaming “wokeness”.
Yeah i think its just that every time someone makes a bad "woke" character people blame the wokeness on it, but it would probably be shit even if the character wasnt woke.
@@kilixior And when well-known characters suddenly turn black or change their sexuality.... has it always been like this?
@@Aleks96 actually yes, kind of, depending on what youre talking about.
If were talking about comics its pretty normal for one character to have as many versions as they have authors.
Every author writes their own version of the character.
@@kilixior Then it's one more reason why I will always find manga better than comics. If Batman suddenly turns black or gay then I can't take the comic seriously anymore. I think they already did it with Superman. But to say that people wouldn't care that well-known characters were suddenly changed like that is ridiculous.
@@Aleks96 so you literally dont know anything about comics then.
Do you even know how many different versions of spiderman exist?
Theres a spiderman thats literally a bunch of spiders pretending to be peter parker.
Whats the problem with the writer doing their own thing with the same basic character?
日本漫画にアメリカコミックは完全敗北😂
精々頑張って😊
"James Gunn will do wonders with flashpoint"
Yea, about that...
Yeah I have no idea why I kept thinking he was the director for flashpoint
my book stores dont even have comics anymore 🥲
It’s not a books a million or Barnes n noble?